A Playbook for Community and Culture (feat. Nick Brown)

Youth sports can be the best classroom a kid ever has or the loudest source of stress in their life. I sit down with Nick Brown, Husband, Father, Football Coach, Operating Partner, Director of Operations and Owner at Shoebox Sports in Fenton, Michigan. We get honest about what young athletes actually need to thrive: purpose, poise, passion, and adults who keep the focus on the kids rather than their own egos.

Nick shares how he got his start in coaching, what it takes to build a multi-sport facility that feels like home, and why community matters as much as competition. We discuss Friday night open gyms, creating a space where families want to stay, and the “leave a shoe, take a shoe” wall at Shoebox Sports that helps lower the cost for families by giving kids free access to the shoes they need. It’s a practical look at athlete development, access, and how small systems can create big impact.

We also get into the tougher side: the business and operations load that can grind down even great leaders, the stress of managing multiple teams and parent expectations, and how youth football and youth basketball have changed under social media pressure. Nick explains how he limits phone access, pushes sleep and structure, and teaches athletes to watch film so they learn from mistakes instead of chasing highlight clips. The coaching takeaways hit hard: you cannot want it more than your players do, results show up later than you want, and one-size-fits-all coaching fails kids who need a different approach.

Subscribe for more conversations at the intersection of youth sports and mental health, share this with an athlete, coach or parent who needs it, and leave a review with the one change you want to see in youth sports.

https://youtu.be/nLXVuvRevRc

https://www.theshoeboxsports.com/

Transcript

Why Youth Sports Mental Health Matters

SPEAKER_01 0:00

Behind every athlete is the story that goes beyond the scoreboard. While youth sports offer incredible opportunities for growth, they also bring pressure, expectations, setbacks, and the constant challenge of balancing competition with well-being. As parents, coaches, educators, and mentors, it's worth asking: are we developing great athletes or are we developing healthy, resilient young people? Welcome to Project 3P. I'm your host, Sharon Inns. And together, we'll explore the intersection of mental health, youth sports, and the emotional journey of competition. We'll have honest conversations about the highs of victory, the lessons found in defeat, and the importance of building confidence, resilience, and character both on and off the court. We'll dive into three guiding principles that can shape every athlete's journey purpose, poise, and passion. These aren't just ideas. They're practical tools that help young athletes thrive in sports and in life. Whether you're a parent trying to support your child, a coach trying to build a positive team culture or an athlete striving to reach your potential, this podcast is for you. We'll share practical strategies, expert insights, and real life stories to help navigate the challenges of competition while protecting what matters most mental health, confidence, and personal growth. Because at the end of the day, success isn't measured only by wins and championships. It's measured by the people our athletes become along the way.

Meet Coach Nick Brown

SPEAKER_01 1:37

Welcome back to another episode of Project 3P. I'm your host, Sherad Hince. Today we have a special guest, Nicholas Brown. Um Nicholas, how are you today?

SPEAKER_00 1:46

Good. How are you?

SPEAKER_01 1:48

I'm good. Thank you. Can you tell the listeners a little bit about yourself?

SPEAKER_00 1:53

So my name is Nick Brown. I'm a first of all, I'm a husband. I've been with my wife, Sabrina, for going on 20 years this upcoming year. I have five kids. My oldest is my daughter, Austin. She's 17, going to be a junior in high school. And then I have four boys that are going into ninth grade, sixth grade, sixth grade, and fifth grade. I'm the owner of Shoebox Sports in Fenton. Shoebox is a multi, multi-sport facility. We run basketball, volleyball, pickleball. We have golf simulators, weight room, a lot of different things that we do there. So I do that, but I'm also a coach. I've been involved in youth sports for a lot of years between football, basketball, and baseball, coaching my kids, coaching, you know, other people's kids. Just youth sports has really been a passion of mine. Coaching has always been my passion. So I've always wanted to find a way to coach and get paid for it. So that was one of the main driving factors behind shoebox sports.

SPEAKER_01 2:55

That's awesome. Um, and can you speak a bit about where you got your start as a coach?

SPEAKER_00 3:00

So I originally I graduated from a school in Flint, Michigan, uh Flint Powers Catholic High School. When I left there, I got a scholarship to Northwood University to play football. I had an academic and athletic scholarship there. Upon leaving there, I had always been interested in coaching. And physically, I wasn't able to play anymore when I left college, just too many injuries through the years, not all of them involved with sports. But once I left there, I really wanted to get back involved in the game. And my freshman coaches that I had when I was at Powers, they gave me the opportunity to jump in with them, be an assistant coach, learn from two very, very experienced, knowledgeable coaches that really, you know, taught me how to do it the right way, I feel. And working with them, I was an assistant with them for two years. And then they were the ones that kind of pushed me and gave me my opportunity to be a head coach for the freshman at Powers when they stepped down. Uh so that was my first initial, you know, go at coaching right there. And I learned a lot from it. Uh I was very, very young at the time, probably too young to be a head coach. I wasn't much older than the kids I was coaching, but I feel that I did a you know good job with them.

SPEAKER_01 4:17

I mean, a lot of people get a lot of different starts in coaching. I feel like through injuries or through being assistants of staffs, I think that's you know, uh paramount. You know, that you were still involved in the game and that you started to give back.

Building Shoebox Sports For Community

SPEAKER_01 4:32

In terms of giving back, can you speak a bit about like what building shoebox sports has meant for your community?

SPEAKER_00 4:39

So shoebox sports has been huge for the community. The community right here in the Fenton area, Genesee County area, it doesn't have a lot of sports facilities like this around that are open for the kids. You know, you have the the YMCA and you have some other private places like Genesis Health Club, but they don't do the kind of things that we do here. But we're not just a you know basketball travel program. We have multiple programs that we offer. Uh, one of the biggest things that we really enjoy is every Friday night we have open gyms for the kids from five to nine. And the amount of kids that we get, especially wintertime when there's nothing else to do around here, it's nothing to have you know 115, 120 kids in here on a Friday night, really giving them somewhere to hang out. You know, when we were younger, you had you know the mall. You go hang out at the mall, you had those places to be able to go and hang with your friends, and those places don't exist anymore. And it it's nice seeing the kids here, not on video games, enjoying each other, interacting with each other. I mean, we have a lot of kids that come here and they don't even touch a basketball, they just come to hang out with with their friends, you know, run around. So they enjoy that. It's really been good for the community as far as bringing everybody together, not just from you know, one specific school. We represent probably 15 different schools in the in the Genesee County and surrounding areas. So these people are building more than just a basketball team, they're building friendships that wouldn't exist outside of this place. They're it's really cool to see families that come together. You know, their kids get put on a team together, they don't know each other beforehand. And now I see pictures on Facebook where they're going on family trips with these other families that without this place they wouldn't have known. You know, so I think it's really about building more than just one community, it's bringing communities together.

SPEAKER_01 6:45

I think the part about just how many different schools are a part of that community is huge. You know, you get kids from different areas, different walks of life, and different perspectives. And then, you know, the closer they are together, the more they get to know each other, um, the more it kind of contributes to that community. I think that's growing up, I had something similar where not as many schools, but you had a community center that, you know, kind of had an area for us to play different sports, like football, basketball, and you know, to go on. But, you know, just to show how much that meant to me as a kid, like have an interaction with other people outside of school, closer to home, you know, that helped build that community. So I know that's huge for your community. I love that. That's awesome. Yep.

Leave A Shoe Take A Shoe

SPEAKER_01 7:32

Upon reviewing your website, I came across leave a shoe, take a shoe. Can you speak a little bit about how that began and the kind of impact this had on your community?

SPEAKER_00 7:42

Yep. So our take a shoe, leave a shoe wall was really my wife's idea. So obviously, we have five kids. All of them are involved in uh basketball, especially. We have a ton of shoes. Every session they get, you know, a new pair of shoes, they want the you know, newest ones coming out, whatever, the new Jaws, new Kobe's, whatever. Well, at our house, we had this massive pile of shoes. And a lot of the times when they're you know a little broken in, you can't resell them, you know, people don't want to want to pay for them, whatever. So my wife came up with the idea of having a a spot where people from the community could bring those shoes in and we could repurpose them, give them to other athletes, kids could exchange shoes, whatever. So when we were working with the architects designing this place, she really wanted to make sure that there was a spot that we could utilize that for. And so with the name becoming shoebox, we wanted it to really be one of the focal points of our lobby. And so it ended up, you know, kind of being the centerpiece of our lobby. And so the way that it works is you can donate shoes, you can take a pair of shoes if you need them, or you can just swap out shoes. We've had a lot of kids that come in and oh, I like these, you know, Lucas that are up on the wall, and they take their shoes off and swap them out with the ones that are up there. And we've had kids that you know come in. Obviously, basketball shoes are expensive, youth sports in general are expensive, and it's really nice to be able to give the parents that option of, hey, I know shoebox is gonna have some shoes up on the wall. Let's go see what they have, you know, see what we can get from there and kind of help take some of that burden off of the parents. So it's it's been really cool to see the kids come in, they see the shoes up there, and they're like, oh, I really like this one. How much is it? And we're like, you can you can have it. We don't we don't sell those, they're free. And you know, the looks on their faces, they're really excited to get those new shoes. And when you got a you know, new pair of shoes on, you you feel good. And we want, you know, that's what we want for the kids, is we want them to feel good.

SPEAKER_01 9:49

Amazing, man. The fact that it's free and the fact that they can swap it out, or you know, just grab a pair of shoes or leave a pair of shoes, I mean it speaks more to that community that you know we were speaking about a little bit before. I think that's a great idea. Usually our wives have the best ideas, you know, for us. But I think it's awesome. And the fact that your wife is involved as well, like that, you know, also speaks to that family unit and that community that you all have going on. I think that's awesome.

SPEAKER_00 10:19

Yeah, it's definitely, you know, our family spends 99% of our time here, whether our kids are playing basketball or I mean, right now, you know, my kids don't start to school until Thursday. They're all here hanging out. They spend, you know, all day here. We actually have upstairs, we have a gaming room where we have there's six TVs up there, we have three PS5s, we have three Xboxes, and we do a lot of like team bonding events up there with our teams where we'll get them pizza, they can hang out, play video games. You know, obviously we only have 2K, Madden, NCAA, MLS, you know, we focus on the sports games, kind of stay away from the other stuff, but the kids really like it up there.

SPEAKER_01 11:04

And this kind of answers my next question, but can you speak a bit about like the kind of environment or how you kind of create an environment where athletes want to come back and improve, not just on the court,

Creating A Family Driven Facility Culture

SPEAKER_01 11:16

but off the court as well. And then you started to speak about it a little bit.

SPEAKER_00 11:20

Yep. So we're very we're a very family-driven environment here. We want everybody when they walk through the doors, we want them to feel like they're part of our family too. And it kind of starts when you come into our lobby. A lot of the days when you come in, we have practices going on. When you walk into the lobby, you're kind of looking around and you're like, whose stuff is all this? And it it really speaks to the sense that we've given these kids a place where they feel like it's home because you know, if you walk into your house, most of the time your kids walk in, just throw their stuff down on the floor and and they know they're home. And that kind of the same thing kind of happens here. The kids walk in the door, and you know, all their bags and shoes are piled all over the couches, and they're kind of laying everywhere and hanging out in the lobby. And I think we've really given the kids and the parents a place that when they come in, they feel like they're home. They like being here. We've we really made sure that the lobby was somewhere that the parents wanted to spend time. I know me personally, when my kids were playing basketball at other places, you go in and there's really nowhere for you to sit. There's always no Wi-Fi, there's no phone service, and you kind of dread going to practice. And we definitely didn't want that here. We wanted it to be a place when you walked in the door, you're like, oh yeah, this is this is nice. I can hang out. We have free Wi-Fi, we have workstations for parents to be able to, you know, sit down and work. We got you know multiple TVs in the lobby, you know, whether there's basketball on or football or you know, whatever going on, or we have separate TVs where we'll give a kid the remote and they can go, you know, into the little cubby and they can watch, you know, whatever they want to watch. So really just giving them that sense of feeling like you know, like their home, like their family has been, you know, the biggest thing to keep them coming back. And then the other thing is we really challenge the kids. You know, kids want to be challenged, they want to be pushed. I think that's sometimes why kids get in get into trouble, is because at the time they're not being challenged, nobody is is pushing them. And so they kind of, you know, they look for that. They want to be, they want to be challenged, they want you to set a bar for them, and they want to be able to rise up to that bar. And I think that's one thing that we do here is we we teach that, we teach accountability, and we have a standard that we expect our players to live up to. And uh I think that really, really pushes them and makes them want to be here.

SPEAKER_01 13:50

Steph, right away. I think what I pulled from what you were saying, which leads me to my next question, is about the parents wanting to be, you know, in the facility, but not having anywhere to be. You

The Real Costs Of Youth Sports

SPEAKER_01 14:03

know, you see different AU tournaments or different events where you know there's not many areas for them to sit, but you know, they get charged to enter the facility. Um, what have you learned about the business side of the sport that you never expected?

SPEAKER_00 14:18

Uh so that's one thing that we definitely noticed is the cost to get into some of these tournaments for families. And for us being a large family of seven, a lot of the times when we go to these tournaments, if if my two you know younger boys are playing, we'll leave everybody else at home because it's so expensive to get in. You know, kids three and under are free. It's it's kind of ridiculous, in my opinion. I know it's it's it's expensive. You know, a lot of parents talk about the cost of it. It is expensive between the uniforms and the coaches and the tournament fees and everything that you got to pay for, it is expensive. But at the end of the day, what we've learned as a facility, we've kept our admissions costs down. Our our league games that we host, the admission is is $5. For the tournaments, it's $10. Kids 12 and under are free. Most kids that are, you know, 13 and up, parents are okay leaving them home alone, you know, but kind of under that age, we kind of figured is the threshold of they can't really stay at home alone. They don't want to be at the tournament, they don't care about the tournament, but they have to be there. And I'm not gonna make the parents have to pay for that, you know. So that's one thing that we've done. And then 65 and over is free. So one of the things, like I said, that we've tried to do is really keep that that cost down. We try to make everything as reasonable as we can for the parents because everything is expensive nowadays, as I'm sure you're aware. But one of the other things that we that I've noticed personally is running a facility. Uh I don't have a lot to do with sports anymore. I'm dealing with, you know, everything else. It's not just the coaching aspect of it for me anymore. It's the the day-to-day stuff, the scheduling, the marketing takes up a ridiculous amount of time. I didn't expect that going into it. You know, I really expected to be able to be out there with the kids and coaching and you know, training in the weight room and doing that stuff, but all the administrative tasks and everything else on the backside, you know, dealing with with parents and issues and everything there really absorbs most of the time. I am fortunate that I'm still able to get out and coach football with my boys, which football is my number one sport. That's my passion. I like basketball, I love basketball, I love watching my boys play it, but there's something just different about football, something different about watching them play football that I, you know, really enjoy. So I'm still fortunate enough to be able to get out there and still coach that.

SPEAKER_01 16:59

Great stuff. I'm gonna come back to football before I go to football. Um, I just want to speak about something that you mentioned about the transition from, you know, being behind the scenes in operations from coming from, you know, coaching and being on the sidelines. Um, can you talk about like how that's impacted your mental health and you know,

Stress And Mental Load Of Operations

SPEAKER_01 17:19

like what the kind of transition was for you?

SPEAKER_00 17:23

Yeah. Uh it's been different. It's been different. There's a there's a big difference between just being able to go out and and coach a team and lead the team as opposed to leading, you know, multiple teams and leading a whole facility. Coaching, you know, you lock in on your one team. You got your, you know, if you're coaching basketball, you've got your 10, 10 players, you're coaching football, you got your 30 players, your couple assistant coaches, everybody kind of has their jobs, and everything just you know flows smoothly. When it comes to running a whole facility, you're dealing with multiple egos, you're dealing with multiple personalities, people, kids. This past winter we had 24 different teams that we were running at the same time. And overseeing all of that is obviously it's it's very stressful. It takes a lot out of you. It's it's mentally, physically draining dealing with you know 24 coaches, you know, and and that's not counting 10 players per team, you know, and then parents, all the parents per team. I always make a joke to the parents that the worst part of youth sports is the youth sports parents. You know, everybody's kid is is going division one, you know, and and how dare you say anything different. So I think that's one of the most most mental things and most challenging things to me is is dealing with all the parents and their personalities. Obviously, we're here for every kid, you know, but we're not we're here for every kid, but we're not the place for every kid, if that makes sense. You know, our our program and the way that that we coach and the way we do things isn't the right thing for for everybody. And the same thing goes with football. My coaching style is not right for everybody, and that's that's okay. And I think that's one thing that that coaches and program leaders really need to learn and understand is that you know it's it's not a one size fits all. If this kid doesn't fit in your program, but they fit better in this program, I would love to see that kid go to that program where he might fit in better with the coach, the coaching style might be better for him, the culture might be better for him. You know, it it's it might be just mentally overall better for him. And I don't want to see a kid, you know, stay in my program just because he's you know he's mine, he's my player. Well, he's not your player. You know, it's and sometimes it's not even the kids, sometimes it's just the parents. You're not the right organization for the parent, even though the kid might fit in. And that's that's okay too, because you always have to do what's what's best for your kid. So I think going back to it mentally, it's been learning one size doesn't fit all.

SPEAKER_01 20:12

I couldn't have said it better myself. You know, being on the operation side of it as well, and also still being involved in coaching, I'm kind of operating between both worlds. You know, so I kind of absorb a lot of it before it gets to our director of basketball operations. Uh, you know, there's myself and a colleague that, you know, are kind of the you know, the last line of defense before it gets to him. But you know, I think just having that all and taking that all, it takes a toll on you as well. Like you didn't even speak about like how much of a toll it takes on you to absorb all of that and then have to have energy for your family at the end of the day. Like, you know, you try not to take any of that home with you, you know, and of course your family's involved in the facility, but you know, to an extent. So I definitely understand like how hard um, you know, that transition was for you. One, and then on the operation side, like how hard it is to kind of deal with the day-to-day stuff. Like, I can't agree more. It's hard.

SPEAKER_00 21:14

Yep. Yep, yeah. My wife, she's very involved. We bait we run the place together. She's, you know, she I do, I'm more of a of an analytical behind the scenes, you know, on the computer, doing all that stuff, and she's the you know, person at the front desk making sure, you know, the staff is in order, making sure that they're greeting everybody the right way. And she kind of holds up the standard out there in the lobby when it comes to that kind of thing, and she does a great job of it, is putting you know, systems in place for everything so that when we're not here, because you know, we're only in we're only in year two right now. So we're trying to get everything in place so when we're not here 247, that the place is still running like we're here, and everybody knows. Knows you know what to do if this parent comes in and says this or how to you know change the you know temperature in the lobby, just all the things that you don't think of that need to be done, she's on top of a lot of that stuff.

SPEAKER_01 22:15

And comes back again to that family unit and that that community feel. Um I love it. Like that's I wish I was close enough to be, you know, a part of it and come in, you know, just enjoy the environment. It sounds like a very pleasant place. And I hope that the athletes and the parents appreciate all that you do and all that your wife does to give back to the community. It's great stuff. Yep. Can you speak a bit about how youth football has changed over the past 10 years or since you stopped playing?

How Youth Football Culture Changed

SPEAKER_00 22:48

It's definitely changed a lot. The biggest thing I've noticed is just the equipment. You know, looking at a picture of my youth football days compared to the stuff that my kids have now, you know, it's it's crazy. Our our jerseys, you know, they had the the big mesh holes in them, and we had uh, you know, the number on the front and our number on the back and our last name, and that was it. And now, you know, the kids, kids coming out there with their, you know, their Nike pants and Nike jerseys and our our program this year, they bought all brand new Vices helmets. You know, so looking at the helmets that we had compared to what these kids are getting now, that's probably one of the biggest changes that I've noticed. And then outside of the equipment, one of the things that I've really noticed, and this goes across all sports, not just football, but the amount of pressure that are that's put on kids from a young age now. With social media, especially, I feel like all of these kids are on the social media, they're on Instagram, they're on, you know, TikTok, and they're seeing all these highlights of all the you know, the the number one fifth grader in the country. And they they're thinking they got to live up to this right now, you know, and they're not seeing everything that these these kids are doing behind the scenes, they're not seeing their mistakes, they're not seeing their their missed shots, they're not seeing that, oh, you know, this game, yeah, they scored 25 points, but the game before, you know, they were 0 for 15. They don't see those things, and they just assume that everything they see on there is, you know, is all facts. And I think as parents, coaches, leaders, we need to make sure that these kids are are understanding that. And I think that's one issue is that a lot of these coaches and parents are adding to that pressure because they're also watching it and they're thinking, oh, my kid needs to, he needs to catch up right now. Right now. What more? He needs more training, he needs more weight room, he needs more, you know, vitamins. And those aren't always the answer. You know, it's sometimes it's just time. Kid needs time to develop, he needs time to grow, he needs time to to catch up. You know, maybe his athleticism isn't where this kid is at right now, but in three years, he may jump way past that kid. And I don't think that people take that into account and give kids the time that they need to actually develop. And then the other thing I think is just egos getting in the way, coaches' egos. You know, I it's scrolling through TikTok and Instagram, you see all the videos of the coaches worrying about their team's walkouts wearing Halloween masks and doing all this stuff and all the yelling and the cussing. And I'm a very passionate coach. There's nothing better than a you know, a good run out song, you know, some some smoke bombs, whatever, you know, we get into that stuff. I think they just get a little too carried away with some of it. And the biggest thing that I really harp on is the language that a lot of these coaches are using to speak to these young athletes, it kind of blows me away sometimes. I I personally, in my personal life, I don't watch my mouth at all when I'm not around anybody. There's a time, a place, a situation for you know, speaking how you want to speak, but then when you're around the youth, you're around the parents, you hold yourself to a higher professional standard. You hold yourself to the same standard you expect your players to live up to. And I've definitely noticed that coming up, just the language that the coaches use towards the kids. I just I can't get behind it, it drives me crazy. And it encourages the kids to use that language towards each other. And then I have my players coming to me. Why, why is this kid calling me this? Why is he saying that? And I think just the overall culture of youth sports has kind of gone downhill quite a bit. And I think that's one thing that we really try to do here is we try to uphold our culture, uphold our standard, and try to make our players meet that because we know how we want to be known, and we don't want to be, you know, associated with the things that we don't agree with. And so I think that's the biggest thing that has changed is just people letting letting their their egos and how they feel it should be take over and not focusing on the kids anymore.

SPEAKER_01 27:24

U to unpack, I think you said amazing stuff. I took some notes as you were talking. I think the first thing that, you know, I want to speak about is just how the culture has changed so much. Social media, that's the first thing that I'll start with. Like you talk about how, you know, some coaches are, I call it performative. Like they're they're doing it for the cameras. Like, I think that's like my biggest pet peeve when it comes to the coaches. Just, you know, they're looking into the cameras. And for basketball, I know it's different than football, but for basketball, you know, I've seen coaches like doing push-ups on the sidelines, or I'm just like, this is outrageous. It's outrageous. Like, just coach the game. It's not that hard to just coach the game of basketball. Like coach the kids to, you know, kind of do the right thing and just, you know, be it's okay, but it's not about you. Like a lot of people want it with egos. Like you said, a lot of people want it to be about them. It's not about you. It's about the kids. It's about, you know, teaching them the right things, how to go about life, you know, taking away life lessons from the sport. At the end of the day, you're gonna win games, you're gonna lose games. Like that's gonna happen. But you know, you want them to be better people after they leave your program, not just after they leave your team, after they leave your program and they're going back into society. So when you speak about how a lot of the clips communicate, it translates to how a lot of the kids communicate, not just to each other, but to other people in society. So I think setting a good example is paramount. Um, that's that's amazing stuff that you mentioned. And then just thinking about like a lot of different ways that they're engaged in a lot of that stuff, like that's awesome stuff. Like, I think you nailed it with a lot of different things

Reducing Pressure With Limits And Film

SPEAKER_01 29:10

that you said. How do you alleviate some of that pressure that your athletes are, you know, kind of receiving and getting from, you know, their peers, like from social media, from their peers, from their parents, from themselves. Like, how do you help alleviate some of that pressure?

SPEAKER_00 29:30

I think it's it's difficult to alleviate a lot of it. You know, with with my kids, personally, I limit the amount of access they have to the stuff. My kids have phones, but they're limited to an hour a day. And in that hour, they need to be doing something constructive on their phone. You know, if you're not going to use a smartphone for anything smart, why do you need a smartphone? You know, obviously they, you know, they have TikTok, they have Instagram. My kids aren't really, really big on it personally. And I think we've I've had a lot of discussions with my kids about the expectations. I'm definitely very, very hard on my kids. You know, I keep them to a strict schedule, which I feel like kids need a schedule. They need structure. It's it's going to help their development. You know, during the summertime, a lot of my football players, basketball players that I talk to, one of the things I ask them is, what time did you guys go to bed last night? You know, these kids are staying up in the summertime playing video games, four, five o'clock in the morning. Not my kids. You're in bed at 9, 9:30. It's, you know, just because it's summer, we can have fun, we can do things. But you told me you have goals. And so I'm going to push you to meet those goals until you firmly decide, you know what, maybe that's not what I want to do. But I'm gonna, I'm gonna push you. And I think that's one thing that I've really done with them is I've kind of sat them down and and talked to them about their goals. And I don't I don't let them see just those highlights, I let them see the mistakes that people make. You know, when we watch game film, I don't watch just their game film. So I a couple weeks ago, I was telling my football team this. I told them, you guys need to get rid of all your subscription services. If you got Netflix and Hulu and and Amazon Prime, your parents need to get rid of that and they need to get you NFHS, the high school channel. That way you guys can go on there and you can watch high school football games from all over the country. You can watch basketball games. But and when I asked them how many kids have watched this stuff before, there was not a single hand up except for my two boys, you know, and that's one thing that we do is we'll sit down and we'll watch games from all over the country and kind of point out the mistakes that people make, the errors that that kids make. What should you have done in this situation? And I think that's really helped them kind of understand not everybody is perfect. The highlights that you see are great, and I've shown them. Here's your highlights. You know, my my son that's going into sixth grade, last tournament that we ran here, he had 24 points. And I said, look at all these highlights. But then the next game, he had three points, and he missed a bunch of shots. And I said, Here's an example right here. If I posted just these highlights, you made five threes, you made, you know, these these layout, whatever, that looks great. That was impressive. You know, everybody goes on there and sees they see that. Oh man, look at this, you know, high-level fifth grader. But then they didn't see the next game where you only scored three points and you missed, you know, you went one for six from the three-point line. They don't see that. So I think that's one thing is parents making sure that their kid understands the difference between reality and what they're seeing online. You know, it we've always been told just you know, just because you've seen it online doesn't make it make it true, you know. So I think that's that's probably the thing right there.

SPEAKER_01 33:23

Great stuff. AI is only making it harder too, like to kind of tell what's real and what's not real. But outside of the social media stuff, like the film thing is I think the biggest thing for me to take away from what you said. Like, not only do kids not watch film, they don't know how to watch film, they don't know what they're looking for. Absolutely, you you know, you're teaching your boys and your team, you know, to watch film and not just, you know, watch brain rot. You know, they're looking at the things they're doing right, the things they could do better, and then they're looking at their competition. So film is a huge part of their development. I think that's great stuff.

SPEAKER_00 34:00

Absolutely. And the way that they're the way that NFL and college teams are starting to watch films, you know, using the the VR headsets and stuff now is pretty interesting. It's I've seen some cool videos on that where it's only gonna become more important to watch film, you know. So it's I encourage all of my players, all of my teams, all my coaches, you need to be watching film, you know, so you're it's only gonna prepare you better.

SPEAKER_01 34:29

Absolutely. And that's across any sport. Like I can't remember what team it was or what player it was, but I did see him like have like a big screen like on the walls, like a big wall, and then he's like, you know, going through his blocks, kind of shedding the blocks. So I'm like, just to kind of put that into perspective and then have yourself like, you know, try to shoot a certain gap, or you know, I think that's amazing. So I think technology is gonna be huge for the development of athletes and to see how that technology continues to advance, you know, 10 years from now or however many years from now, you know, to where they're kind of submerged in it. And like you said, they are like it probably already exists, you know, for the highest level athletes. But now, you know, to kind of take that and put it into perspective. Like I like to compare it to like 2K, where, you know, you kind of have that vision of your player. But I think the thing that people kind of get misconstrued about 2K is that they're thinking about their own stats and not like how to make the right reads and plays. So I think there's a place for sports and video games to kind of coexist, or even film to coexist, but you know, you have to be using it the right way. So I think that's something that you know is gonna be huge as well.

SPEAKER_00 35:37

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_01 35:38

Um great self coach, Nick, or Nick, sorry. You're good. What do you think the toughest lesson coaching has taught you is?

Coaching Lessons About Desire And Growth

SPEAKER_01 35:49

Or the toughest lesson that you've learned from coaching?

SPEAKER_00 35:53

You can't want it more than your players do. You know, I I try to stress this to the kids all the time. You know, every practice I try to stress this to my football players. Me and the coaches can't want to win. We can't want to be successful, we can't want you to be successful more than you want yourself to be successful. Because I can only I can only tell you so many times, I can only push you so hard, I can only correct you so many times at some point. You have to want it for yourself. And if you don't truly want it, you're never going to get to that point of being at the level that you think you're at or the level that you want to be at. So I think that's that's been a hard lesson for me to learn because I've always thought, you know, maybe if I just push them a little harder, maybe if I just, you know, yell a little louder, maybe if I just implement this drill or this tactic that that'll make a difference. But at the end of the day, if they don't want it, it it doesn't matter how how hard you push them, how hard you do anything. It's it has to come down to them. And it's definitely hard to take that in. And then I think another lesson is the results aren't always visible right away. You know, when you're when you're coaching these young kids, you know, like I spoke about before, the timing of their development, you know, you have this this kid that just he wants it so bad, but he just doesn't have the height, or he doesn't have the strength, or he just doesn't have the speed. And you know, you keep pouring into this kid, you keep, you know, running him through these drills, you keep believing in it in him, you keep pushing him. You know, when he does get to that, then you know, he gets to that level that you you thought he could be at then. And so it's it's not the results aren't always visible from the work that you're putting in today. You know, the results come down the road. And I think that's that's been challenging because you see a kid that that has the desire and the want and the will, and just you know, the size is just not there, or the the speed is just not there. And it it sucks for him, it sucks for you because you want it for him, but it's it just the reality of it, you know.

SPEAKER_01 38:18

You're speaking like with a lot of wisdom, and you know, for the coaches who are gonna listen and parents and players who are gonna listen who are gonna absorb some of this wisdom, I think it's important for them to understand what the next part of that is. So, like when you find out or when you notice that you have an athlete who, you know, just doesn't want it as much as you do, but they have a bunch of potential, like what do you do as a coach to, you know, kind of deal with that process? Like, how do you personally, and what would you recommend coaches do when they see that, you know, their team or their player, you know, whoever doesn't want it as much as they do? Like, what's the next steps for you?

SPEAKER_00 39:00

It's one of the hardest things in coaching. You know, you're not just uh you're not just a coach, you're not just a leader, you're a motivator. And sometimes at the end of the day, it's just if if you have that one player, it's a conversation with that player and his parents. Like, you know, he he clearly doesn't want it. What are we gonna do to to motivate him? And sometimes the kids are just not interested in sports, sometimes it's just not for him. You know, my my son that's going into ninth grade, I knew I always knew he was gonna be a big kid, you know. So I always wanted to push him into football because that was my thing, you know, and so he played his his fourth grade through seventh grade year. He never truly wanted to play. It was more of me saying, Hey, look, it's you know, football season, you're gonna do something. You're gonna play a sport, football is what you're gonna do right now. And so he would always go along with it, but he never truly wanted it. Which led to his fifth grade year, he fractured the growth plate in his ankle. His sixth grade year, he actually punched my daughter in the shoulder and fractured the knuckle in his finger. And then his seventh grade year, he ended up fracturing both bones in his wrist. And then he missed all of basketball season, which was the sport he actually, you know, wanted to play. And so part of those injuries I felt like was him not having the want. You know, he has he has the size, he has the strength, you know, he's he's almost 6'5, he's close to 200 pounds, he's not incredibly fast, but I guarantee I told him I guarantee you I could make you into a Division II offensive lineman with no problem with your size. But the harsh reality of it for me was the the want, the desire was just not there for him. So sometimes as parents and coaches, it's just understanding that once

When A Player Does Not Want It

SPEAKER_00 41:05

again, you might want it for him, but if they don't want it, there's nothing you can do about it. You know, and that's it's that tough lesson to learn. Like I said, football was my number one thing. And seeing him, you know, especially this being his first year of high school and him being my oldest boy, that excitement of seeing my son run out on the field, you know, on Friday night was always the thing that was in the back of my mind. Like, yeah, you know, Friday night basketball games, that that's cool, you know, it it's exciting, but it's not football, you know, and it it never will be in my mind. You know, for some people it is, and that's fine, that's their thing. But it's just for me, Friday night under the lights, you know, everybody in the stands running out on that field, like there's no feeling, there's no, there's nothing else like it. And I was I wanted to see him, you know, be in there, but it's just it's not what he wants. And I can't, I can't force that. So I think that's one thing that parents and coaches need to learn. And then when you have a team that doesn't want it, that's one of the most depressing things as a coach. You know, that's that's the team that you I've had a team like that. You know, it was it was a seventh-grade middle school team. I was coaching football, and they just they weren't physical, they weren't aggressive. I didn't have a quarterback. It was, you know, I was trying to piece different kids together to try to play quarterback. And, you know, I had one that I just didn't have the time to develop. It's middle school football in Michigan. You have you know basically two weeks of practice before you play your first game, and you don't have time for anything, you know, it it puts you behind. And the it was just a struggle of a season. It wasn't fun for me. I know it wasn't fun for the kids. And when you just have a team that's not motivated like that and they don't want it, it's it's the same thing. You can only motivate them so much, you know. And I think in that sense, just kind of making sure that the kids still develop, they're still learning what you're trying to put in because maybe the want will develop later. You know, maybe the desire to play, the desire to be aggressive, the you know, the physicality, maybe it'll come later for them. So you don't necessarily want it to be a complete waste of a season. You still want them to try to learn and absorb as much as you can, but at the end of the day, when you go one and five, you know, you're not having a lot of fun. So trying to find different ways to make sure that they're enjoying it while still getting their butt kicked on the field is a difficult balance. But as a coach, I mean that's part of our job is is figuring out how to do that and hopefully make It click for them eventually down the line.

SPEAKER_01 44:04

Great stuff. I think you gave great advice, you know, to the coaches who may be listening, even to the parents and players who may be listening. I know that you know, parents kind of accepting, you know, their kid doesn't want it as another conversation because they want it for their kids. Like that happens, like you see that all the time. What would you say is the best piece of coaching advice that you've ever received?

SPEAKER_00 44:27

Uh let's see. Making sure that you coach every kid the way that they need to be coached. You know, because just like I spoke about earlier, our program not being a one size fits all. When you're coaching kids, it's not a one-style fits all. I'm a very, like I said, I'm a very passionate coach. I'm very, I'm very loud, I'm very energetic. You know, I'll tell the parents up front, I yell a lot. But it's never out of a place of anger, it's never out of a place of spite. I'm never talking down to your kids. Usually when I'm talking loud, it's because either one, they're not listening, or two, I've explained it five times and they're still doing it wrong. And now I'm gonna yell at you so I get your attention and you're locked in on me. So it's it's finding that balance. Some kids need structure. Some kids just don't do well if you know a coach is kind of all over the place and you know, we're gonna run over here and do this drill, and then we're gonna jump over here and do this, and we're not really sure what we're gonna do today, so we're gonna change this. And so having a good structured program is good for some kids. Being strict, hard coaching is how my two boys respond to my two younger ones. I gotta be on them. You know, they they want to be pushed, they want me, you know, they want the hard coaching, they want the hard parenting. That that's with how they thrive. Uh, so it's really finding the balance of those kids. And that's one thing that I learned from my freshman coaches that I spoke about earlier that give gave me my first break is finding how each kid needs to be coached and coaching them that way. Some kids, you know, some kids just need love. You know, I have players that, you know, split households, they don't have you know a good home life, and having them be able to come in and just love on them, you know, give them a place where they feel safe, where they feel cared for, where they feel people take a genuine interest in how their day was or how their night was will completely change a kid, you know, and then some kids just need believing, you know, they just need somebody to believe in them that they can do it because they don't have confidence because of, you know, they they get teased at school for this, or you know, their their parents are at home putting them

Coach Each Kid The Right Way

SPEAKER_00 47:10

down over everything they do. So just giving them that sense of, hey, this guy believes that I can do this, then I can do this, you know. So that's probably the biggest lesson is is figuring out how each kid needs to be coached and coaching them that way.

SPEAKER_01 47:29

Amazing. Thank you for sharing. Uh, when you look five years ahead, what do you hope that you have built both as the coach and as you know, oper in operations at Truebox Sports?

SPEAKER_00 47:43

As a coach, I would say I hope that I can look at the players that I've had an impact on and just see how they've how they've grown as people, hoping that the impact that I I put into them, the time that I put into them, the work I put into them, excuse me, just hoping that they've you know accomplished what they want to accomplish, that they've you know grown into the people that I know they can be, and kind of take the values that I've taught them and the work that I've taught them, and they apply that this coming season. When I when I moved back here to Michigan is when I got back into coaching, I had been out of it for several years. And when I got back into it in 2021, the first group of fourth grade football players that I coached, they're going into their ninth grade year this year. So I'm really excited those next four years to see where those kids came from and how much work I had put into them in fourth, fifth, sixth, seventh, eighth grade to see how they they take all those things and they use it at the high school level and and hopefully see some of them at the college level. And I think really in the next five to ten years, I just want to see the kind of impact that my coaching had on those kids. And then when it comes to shoebox, I really just want us to keep growing, developing, you know, kind of defining our standard and raising our standard and just making sure that it's still a place that everybody wants to be, you know, five to ten years down the road, and just you know, continuing to create opportunities for not just kids, but create opportunities for people. We've given, you know, a few a few different people opportunities to coach that other places weren't giving them the opportunities. And I've always felt, you know, part of my responsibility, part of my job is to help those people give them an opportunity. Because, like I said, I was given that opportunity at a very young age. And if it wasn't for those guys believing in me and giving me that shot and taking a chance on me, then I wouldn't be where I am today. And I I really, you know, take pride in that, in giving people opportunities, because without it, they might never get a chance. And everybody that wants to give to the youth, everybody that wants to have an impact on kids and wants to help develop kids, they should all be given that that platform, given that chance until they show that they can't do it.

SPEAKER_01 50:47

I love what you just said. I like to think of it as like a life cycle. Uh, you know, everything has like a life cycle. So like the life cycle of a team or an athlete, you know, is kind of like from when they begin the sport to their last year playing the sport. Should that be their last year of high school or whenever they decide to stop playing? But I think one of the most underrated parts of coaching is when you get to repeat that life cycle and you take everything that you learn from, you know, that team that you've built up from third or fourth grade to, you know, kind of seeing them through high school. And then everything that you've learned along the way to bring that to either the next generation of players, like I think that, you know, not only do they benefit from that, but so does your culture, you know. And then you get to see your players, like you said, uh potentially play at the next level and you know, spread a lot of the impact and the life values that you instilled in them. So I love what you said, and I think that's great slot. Yep.

Where To Follow And Final Thanks

SPEAKER_01 51:44

Before we end the podcast, can you share where the listeners can follow you, follow your work and learn more about what you're building at Shoebox Sports?

SPEAKER_00 51:55

Yep. So if they want to follow Shoebox, they can follow us on Instagram or Facebook. It's just Shoebox Sports MI. And then they can follow me on Facebook and Instagram as well, Coach Brown2423.

SPEAKER_01 52:10

Awesome.

SPEAKER_00 52:11

Thank you for sharing.

SPEAKER_01 52:12

Nick, I appreciate you so much. I appreciate your time. Excited to share this episode with everyone who wants to absorb it. Um I hope that you know your circle and your athletes also take a listen so they can, you know, dive deeper. Not that they don't know who you are already, because I'm sure they do, uh, but they can dive deeper just into you know how you go about things and the things that you love and your point of mute. So thank you so much for your time.

SPEAKER_00 52:37

Absolutely. I appreciate you having me.

SPEAKER_01 52:39

Yes, sir. Thank you. Uh that wraps up today's episode of Project 3P. I'm your host, Sharon Inz, and we'll see you next time.