75. Dwell Differently Co-Founder Natalie Abbott: Finding Peace in Scripture When Anxiety and Fear Feel Overwhelming

In this podcast episode, Nikki welcomes Natalie Abbott, co-founder of Dwell Differently, a ministry dedicated to helping people memorize scripture. 

Natalie discusses her life as a wife, mom of five, and author. She shares her personal journey to faith, which started with reading various religious texts, including the Bible given to her by her great-grandmother. Through scripture, she discovered the transformative power of God's word. 

Natalie explains how Dwell Differently began, recounting her sister Vera's story of overcoming anxiety through memorizing Bible verses. 

Nikki and Natalie talk about balancing ministry, family life, and how integrating scripture into daily routines can provide strength and wisdom. Natalie emphasizes the importance of grace and finding small ways to engage with God’s word. 

The episode concludes with practical advice for parents and Christians seeking to deepen their faith.

Dwell Differently: 

Website: 

https://dwelldifferently.com

Instagram: 

https://www.instagram.com/dwelldifferently

Podcast: 

https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/dwell-differently/id1485331979

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Transcript

Welcome And Episode Set-Up

SPEAKER_00 0:01

Hey friends, I'm Nikki Smith, your host here at A Heart That Beats for Home, the podcast where we're ditching filters and diving headfirst into the raw beauty of all things home. Now, I am no expert when it comes to this whole parenting and marriage dance. I'm simply a gal who's been riding the mom roller coaster for 22 years and a wife still untangling the mystery of it all 25 years after saying I do. My goal is to bring you unapologetically messy and boldly genuine conversations about cultivating strong families. We're gonna laugh, possibly cry, and straight talk about the joy and chaos that comes within the four walls that we call home. No judgment and certainly no perfection. Just real talk from my heart, a heart that beats for home. Let's dive in. Hello, friends. Welcome back to another week on the podcast. We have a special treat today. I have been super excited about this conversation that's about to happen. And just in spending about five minutes before hitting the record button, I know that this is gonna be just a good, heartfelt conversation about life, about relationship with Jesus, and about navigating as a wife and a mom in the day today. And so today our guest is Natalie Abbott. Natalie is married to her husband Jason, of almost 26 years now, is the mama to five kids between the ages of 12 and 20. She's a gifted writer. She's the co-founder of Dwell Differently. You may have heard of Dwell Differently. If you have seen the tattoo Bible verses, this is Natalie and her sister Vera, who are the co-founders. We're going to talk a lot about that today. And she is, according to her bio on her website, she is a self-proclaimed Jesus freak along with her pastor husband. And so there's so many different things that that could mean. We'll get into that a little bit more. But she is one of five kids. She has five kids. I'm one of five kids. So, Natalie, if you wouldn't mind just giving us a little bit of just a description of you and your life and maybe start with how dwell differently came to be. But we are we're so glad to have you here with us today.

Vera’s Story: Sport, Anxiety, And Scripture

From Olympic Trials To Depression And Hope

The First-Letter Method And Launch

SPEAKER_01 2:12

Okay. Well, just to give you like a sliver of what life looks like like in a given day, there's just so much going on in my life. I have one middle schooler, I have two high schoolers, and I have two in college. And so we are regularly like, where did our whole week go? Yeah, you know, it just is kind of a nutty thing. But I was telling you earlier before we we hit record that my sister Vera is 10 years younger than me. And I became a Christian when I was in college and shared my faith with Vera and sort of have had this beautiful, like when she was growing up, sort of this almost like a mentoring type relationship. I joke that I raised my same self. And Vera was in a lot of ways just such a strong Christian from day one, but always struggled with fear and anxiety. And she was, she doesn't like to tell people this, but she was a superstar athlete. She won three state championships in pole vaulting in high school. And there's a reason I'm telling you this. It's not just like, hey, let me just talk about my sister and tell you how awesome she is, although she is very awesome. But she went on to college. And as a college student, she was an elite pole vaulter and went to the national championships many times. And she also went on and went to two Olympic trials. So just an incredible, amazing athlete, and really just so committed to Christ in that. And part of what she would do when she was pole vaulting is because she recognized you just only get to think about so many things. It's just a split second, and you are in the air by, you know, 15 feet or crazy amounts of heights. And it's a dangerous sport. It's kind of a a sport where your mind is very important. And so she used to write in Sharpie Marker scripture verses on her arm. And my now sister-in-law, who was her teammate at the time, finally was like, Vera, you freak show, what are you doing? Why don't you just write the first letter of every word? And then it won't be so much. Like it was an aggressive amount of a Bible verse on like a sleeve basically on her arm all the time. But it was so helpful to her. And so she started doing the first letter and realized that it was helping her actually memorize those verses. And that was where she was putting her head when she's competing, when she is tempted to worry too much about the outcome or the results of how things are going to go, or whether how people are going to think about her, whether or not she's living up to her own expectations or the expectations of her coaches and all those things that you can kind of really just fall into a pit. And so she was constantly doing that with scripture. And when she was at her last Olympic trials, she had injured herself right before, and she knew for sure she was not going to make it through. And she didn't. So her friends are all getting married and starting to have kids. And she is literally driving around the country with big giant poles strapped to the top of her car, you know, pursuing this Olympic dream that she had. And when that dream didn't come to fruition in the way that she had hoped, she went into about a year-long depression where she could hardly get out of bed. She struggled to figure out what is the next thing for me. And even as a believer, she just went into a really just a deep place of sadness and self-doubt and fear and anxiety, just crippling anxiety. And so what she realized though was that same thing that had given her such great hope during all of the competitions that she had done was the very thing that she still needed. It was God Himself speaking to her, giving her hope, giving her just this different word than the lies that she was hearing whispered into her ear by our enemy. She was like, those things aren't true. And as hard as it was for her to grab onto that hope, that was the only thing that she could do. That was what was getting her out of bed. This was before all the Bible apps and you know, ways that you could listen to scripture online. She actually would record voice memos of herself on her phone and put her headphones in while she was at the grocery store just to make it through the store. And after she came out of that deep, dark season, she came away with this one just complete and total resolve that she had to teach other people the power of God's word. She had to help other people like actually put it into your heart and into your mind and let it be the thing that you are saying to yourself. Let it be the thing that when the enemy says something about you that isn't true, like you're unlovable, you would say to yourself, this truth about who you are in Christ, that he has loved you with an everlasting love, that he has drawn you with unfailing kindness. That's from Jeremiah 31. There's just so many scriptures that we can pull upon and say to ourselves and allow that to be what is most powerful, what is most true, the thing that we are, even when we are having trouble believing it, the thing that we are saying to ourselves and believing that God Himself, who is powerful and his word is powerful enough to create all things, that he is the one who is saying this to me. And this is what is true. So she made 25 temporary tattoos because that's how many you could make in the smallest amount of it was Hebrews 10, 23. Let us hold unswervingly to the hope we profess, because he who promised is faithful. And she gave that to 25 people and said, see if you can memorize this first, mostly friends and family. And everybody was like, wow, this was incredible. Like I actually memorized the scripture and I struggle with memorizing scripture. And yet here I have this beautiful, like I still remember it from so many years ago. Not that I remember everything that I memorized with well, because if you asked me, I'd be like, ah. But it is just amazing how that simple practice just was so transformative to her and how she was just impassioned to give it away. And immediately she called me and was like, Natalie, will you help me help people memorize scripture? And I'm like, I am in. I am all on board. Yes, count me in. And so for almost eight years now, that has been our passion and driving us into just this space where we want to help people, most of the time, specifically women and families, but definitely anybody who comes across our website, we want to help you memorize scripture. Whether you become a member and we send you the easy button kit in the mail, or whether you are just following along and memorizing with us and listening on our podcast and receiving our emails, like whatever it is. We just want you to understand the power and the transformation of having God Himself actually speaking into your heart and allowing your mind to dwell differently instead of dwelling on all the negative things to dwell on God's word.

SPEAKER_00 9:45

That that is an amazing story. I had never heard the backstory. I always wondered how it came to be just the first letter. I have a daughter who was an athlete as well in college, and she would write like just you know, the scripture like reference on her wrist or on a shoe or something. But I can only imagine what Vera looked like with the entire sleeve of Sharpie.

SPEAKER_02 10:05

I mean, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 10:06

So funny.

SPEAKER_01 10:07

Kayla, my sister-in-law, was so embarrassed. She was like, Vera, you have got to stop. Please stop. Please stop. We are friends.

Mission: Letting Minds Dwell Differently

SPEAKER_00 10:14

This is a little overwhelming. I saw somewhere, I think it was maybe in a blog post that Vera wrote. And I put it down here on a post-it note because I thought it was so good. And it's exactly what you just shared of her story. She said, his word brought new life to my paralyzed mind. And I thought, man, that is that is a powerful word picture of a paralyzed mind by fear and anxiety. And that is something that I think is overwhelmingly evident in the life of people around us today. Just this anxiety and fear and the devil getting a stronghold in the minds of women, you know, especially. That's what we we talk so much about here is just moms and wives, and whether that be in identity or in worth, or you mentioned performance. You know, we get caught up in performance. And then when that, the bottom falls out from that thing that we've made our identity, what do we go to? And just what you guys have done with this, dwell differently. I pulled up your mission and I'm going to share it with our listeners because I think it's so good. At dwell differently, we believe that God is our everything, that his words are life, and that he is for us. And I'm like, goodness, if that is, that's like a mission statement that could that could make me get a little teary-eyed. I'm an emotional girl, anyways, but God is our everything, his words are life, and he is for us. And, you know, I want to ask you a few questions. So you mentioned that you got saved a little later in life. Would you tell us just a little bit about what that looked like for you? That coming to Jesus, not as a, you know, because a lot of times you hear, oh, she's a pastor's wife. She has a business on memorizing scripture. She must have come out of the womb, like quoting, quoting scripture. And that's not always the case. And so I would love just to hear and for our listeners to hear a little bit about how you came to find Jesus.

Nikki On Anxiety, Identity, And Mission

Natalie’s Unusual Journey To Faith

Grace For Bible Reading And Plans

SPEAKER_01 12:08

Yeah, in the most bizarre kind of way. I don't think I realized it at the time how unique or strange my testimony is, because I was just, that was just how it happened for me. But somebody gave me a Bible. And it was actually my great grandmother when I graduated high school, she gave me a Bible. And I ended up being an English major in college. So that goes without saying. I love to read. And I'm like, huh. I've literally never read the most famous book in the world. I've never read it. Like, of course, I should read this. And then as I was considering, you know, reading the Bible, I'm like, well, I don't want to be closed-minded here. So of course I'm going to read the book of Quran and I'm going to read a lot of like I just read widely. I read the Book of Mormon, I read religious texts. Like I basically went to the library and I was like, okay, what are the major religions and what do they say? And I was very like, again, just trying to be open-minded. And I remember thinking, if there is a God, I think he's God and or gods, or and or she, who, he, she, they, whatever. If they exist, if he exists, then if I were to pray, then they would hear me. And so I, my freshman year of college, and the summer after I graduated, I started reading all these texts and praying every night religiously. God, if you're there, show me who you are. And I just, I just have to say though, that like my life was marked by chaos, like sex, drugs, and rock and roll, like all of the things that's what I was doing. So it was a very unusual set of circumstances because here I was living this lifestyle that was that was pretty dark, honestly. I've always kept a journal, and it's funny because I've I've always written poetry and I couldn't go back and read those poems, and I'm like, oh gosh, it was so they were so dark. And yet, into that darkness, there God just spoke, you know, in the same way that he spoke light into darkness, and he said, Let there be light, and there was light. He spoke light into my heart and he began to reveal to me the beauty of who he is, who is in the image of Christ. And so as I was reading all of these religious texts, they started falling away. And if if you've never read any other religious book, or if you're afraid of reading any other other religious book, don't be because there is not there is nothing like the Bible. It is truly the inspired word of God. And as an English major, I'm like, wow, this is so beautiful and complex. And how did it, how did it get written over so many years by so many different authors? And yet the thematics run through and and the concepts are amazing. And I remember actually as a non-Christian memorizing God's word. And I remember I got to the Psalms and there was this, I can't even remember which Psalm it is now. I think it's Psalm 103, maybe, says, As far as the East is from the West, so far as He removed our transgressions from us. And as high as the heavens are above the earth, so far, or so great is his love for those who fear him. And I remember thinking, what if that's true? Like, what if God could remove all of my stuff, all of my junk, all of the things, all the ways I hadn't even lived up to my own standards, let alone these things that I'm reading in the Bible that are like, wow, I wish I could be more like this. And I finally got to this place. I am a slow learner apparently, because by the time I was a sophomore, I'm still reading the Bible. I'm not a Christian yet. And I don't understand the main point. Like, I'm still not getting it. And I had a boyfriend at the time who had gone to this college ministry and he had called me up and invited me to go. And and truth be told, I was my my roommates and I were having a drinking, underage drinking party that night. And I was like, no, I don't want to go. And he's like, Yeah, but remember, you've kind of been talking about this with me, and blah, blah, blah, blah. And I'm like, why was he even dating me? I don't even know. But he he invited me. And I remember getting mad at him and saying, Don't ever talk to me about God again. Don't ever ask me to go to one of those things again. I don't want to do it. And I hung up the phone and I remember my Bible was laying open on my bed. And I remember looking at it and being like, that is the worst thing I have ever read. It has made me feel so guilty and so terrible. Why have I been doing like, why have I been torturing myself? And I remember saying to God, if you're there, show me who you are. I remember saying to that hypothetical God, like, if you are real and you see me right now, I'm gonna burn your book because I I could never live up to it. And it was at that very moment that I like all of it made sense to me. And God opened my eyes, and it was like, no, you can't. But Jesus did. He lived up to all of that, and he did it for you. And if you would just believe in him, then he will pay for every sin. And as far as the east is from the west, so far will he remove your transgressions from you? And it was like done. Wow. Done. I mean, I keep bawling my eyes out. I end up going to that thing that my boyfriend at the time had invited me to and sitting in the back and bawling my eyes out. And I I remember thinking, I don't belong here. I don't belong here in this room full of good people because I had been there before. And again, that the just that guilt. I don't deserve this. I don't know why God would forgive me. I don't know why he would want me. And yet I knew that he did. And that all of that book was true and it was for me. Kind of that that, you know, God is everything. And he's for me. His word is true and it is for me. And so everything changed. Everything changed in in the split second. And it's funny, my husband, he, you know, we didn't start dating for a couple of years after that. But he refers to those years as my puritanical years because I was like, all of it, it's all gone. I'm getting rid of all of it. I don't want any of it. You know, I just, it was just a completely new thing. And I I was just so impassioned. I'm still impassioned for Jesus, obviously. But man, I just, I was, I was still going to the bars with my friends only. I was not drinking. And I'm like telling them about Jesus. And finally, they just like stopped inviting me. It was kind of a lonely year for a while there until I made some Christian friends. But yeah, that is how I became a believer. And I am so passionate about the power of God's word, that God Himself is speaking in His Word. And when we give it the credence that it deserves, when we recognize that the God of the universe is speaking to us, like, how can we not spend time in his word? How can we not be listening to what he has to say?

SPEAKER_00 19:44

Yeah. What a what a powerful testimony. There's so many things in there that that you touched on that I would love to ask some additional questions on. I love that you got to that point that you were like angry and I'm gonna burn it. I'm gonna burn this book, right? The I Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 19:58

It's like I literally was thinking about how I would burn it, like ripping out each page and just like over time. I really wanted to burn it slow. I wanted a slow burn.

SPEAKER_00 20:06

I'm in a college dorm. I can only do so many pages at a time. Um, but you know, the the word of God can be super offensive because it it points out our shortcomings, which isn't that the whole point of the gospel, to to make it so clear to us that there's no way. There is absolutely no way except for the gift of God coming, dying, the rising again, and just that the grace and the hope of the whole gospel. And now you're married to a pastor, I'm a PK, and I love hearing testimonies that are both I found Jesus after the drinking, the drugs, the sex, the rock and roll. And I was born in the church and I've always been a believer. But yet there's still in both of those stories, there's a point where the Bible either becomes real or it's just part of what you know or you don't know. And for me, right, growing up in that and having parents who were so intentional about grace and the gospel and all five of us kids, so grateful that we all know and love and walk with Jesus. And I think if there's anything as a parent that you could say, when I get to the end of my life, if I can say all of my kids love Jesus, they walk with Jesus and they know Jesus personally. And so I'm so grateful for that. But saying all of that, as a 47-year-old woman, this is the first year I have ever attempted to read the Bible front to back. And I think that there's a part of this conversation that I want to have for listeners because podcasts is a weird thing. We have no idea the ears that this is going into in so many different countries, in so many different cities, in places where the gospel is readily available, and now with technology, so much more so. But I know that that this podcast is listened by people who maybe don't have a relationship with Jesus, who are curious, or maybe they've been a believer. They've had a religion, quote unquote, because it's what they were brought up in, but they've never made it personal. And I would love just for you to talk into the fact that the Bible can feel very overwhelming. It can feel very scary. I mean, I am not gonna lie, reading through the Bible chronologically, the Old Testament nearly took me out. I was like, Lord, there are some things that I read that I like would screenshot and send in my husband and be like, Did you have any clue that this scripture? And he'd be like, I have never seen that. And I'm like, that is so grotesque, or it's so like, whoa. And so just wrestling with just staying committed, even sometimes when I it's this struggle for me of I don't want this to be a chore or a checklist. I don't want reading the Bible in a year to be like, and I did it. I want to read the Bible in a year because I'm passionate about growing in my relationship with Jesus and being okay to sit in it and go, I don't know that I could rephrase anything I just read, but I'm gonna do it again tomorrow. And I'm gonna trust that eventually God's gonna start putting pieces of it together. What would you say to the listener that maybe hasn't ever picked up a Bible, that has maybe just skimmed to the easy parts, that's gone to the I don't call the Psalms the easy parts, right? That's so much lament and hurt, but that has gone to maybe the parables or the things that feel easy to digest. What would be your encouragement to somebody just to dig in and go deep into making the word of God real and active in your life?

Small Verses, Big Impact In Real Life

SPEAKER_01 23:42

Well, I would say, first off, there's so much grace. There's so much grace for you. I have done the Bible a lot of different ways over the years. I currently am in a, I don't know, probably five-year read-through the Bible reading plan. There have been years that I've read it through and a whole year and it felt like a marathon and also a sprint. It was a lot. So there's grace to not do it that way. Currently, I am reading through the Bible, one book of the Old Testament, and then one book of the New Testament, and then the one of the book of the Old Testament, one book of the New Testament. I like that way because it allows me to spend time with Jesus. And not that there isn't a shadow of what is to come in the Old Testament, and not that God is different in the Old Testament from the New Testament. But for me personally, it is hard to I I want a speed read sometimes through Leviticus, for instance. And honestly, that's okay too. You can you can do that too. We have so many resources. So I would say for somebody who wants to read through the Bible but doesn't feel like they can spend, I mean, it's like eight months if you're doing a chronological plan of the Old Testament. It's a lot, there's a lot more Old Testament than there is New Testament. So give yourself grace and maybe try doing it that way. There's a resource that I think is really helpful, especially for people who are newer, and that's the Bible recap. It is a great resource by Terry Lee Koble. We always have her on almost every year at the end of the year to say, hey, if you want to read through the Bible next year, Terry Lee Koble is so awesome about helping walk through those difficult passages with you and help you understand them. In fact, my the women in my church this year are gonna do that program and I'm super excited for it. I think it'll be great. There are a lot of women who are like, I've never read through the Bible and I'm I'm 50 years old. I'm 80 years old. I've never done it. So if you've never done it and you want something to help you, that is a really, really helpful resource to do. I'm a little afraid because I know myself and I am like a type Z. There's like type A people who can like check off boxes and love it. And there's me that's like, why is there a box there? I don't want to check it off. I just maybe I want to skip to tomorrow. I don't know. So that's my fear is that reading through the Bible in a year is difficult for somebody like me because I do like to skip around. I like to feel like I have freedom. And so I probably will read through the Bible in a year, but also find myself in other places and allow myself that grace as well. So yeah, that's what I would say. Give yourself some grace. Maybe check out the Bible recap, maybe do Old Testament, then New Testament, and allow the one thing that I would say, regardless of what it is that whatever program you're using or however long, if you want to do the five-year plan like me, you can still do the Bible recap. You're just checking those boxes off and and it'll keep track of it for you. You just, it's just gonna say 752 days behind. And that's okay. That is also give yourself that grace to be 752 days behind. But the one thing that I would say, and this is something that I regularly do, is whatever it is that I'm reading, I try to find one phrase, one verse, one small thing that I'm like, wow, what if my life looked a little bit more like that? What if I was more committed to sharing my faith in the way that Paul is doing in this passage? Or what if I really took seriously the mystery of Christ and how all treasure of wisdom and knowledge is in him? That was in my reading today from Colossians. And I'm like, all the treasures of wisdom and knowledge are in Christ. How is it that I've never seen that in that verse before? And yet there it was in Colossians 2. And I'm like, blowing my mind, just completely blowing my mind. I had to write it down, I had to think about it, I had to, I had to be like, wow, wow, wow, God. And not that I don't kind of know that, but for the Bible to like just kind of hit that on me, I'm like, what am I where why am I looking for knowledge and wisdom anywhere else?

SPEAKER_00 28:04

Anywhere else, yeah.

Wisdom, Overwhelm, And Psalm 23

SPEAKER_01 28:06

Anyhow, that would be my kind of meandering way of recommending reading through the Bible.

“Follow” Means Pursue: Goodness That Hounds

SPEAKER_00 28:11

I'm I'm actually doing the Bible recap and thank God for Terry Lee Cobble because there are so many times where I'm just so grateful that she has made it her life work to dig in and to pull things together and to help do some of that, that just it does feel overwhelming and not that we should ever just lean on somebody else to do it all for us, but what an amazing tool if you're if you're newer to the Bible or not, just to be able to have somebody that in that. So for listeners, if you're doing the Bible recap, there's the the scripture that you're supposed to read for the day. And then there's between a six and a 10-minute recap that Tara does that just kind of helps you understand it and walks you through some of it and what a blessing that is. And I love that you brought up the grace piece because I think everything in life, I actually was talking to my husband recently that I feel like every single thing in my life is measured on a scale. You know, there's there's work performance, there's health goals that is either weight or how many grams of protein or how many steps, or it's like everything is a number, the sleep trackers where you're trying to get the score in. And it's just like, and it's easy to put our relationship with the Lord in the same category. And you brought up Grace, and I think in especially talking to moms, as I look at the last 23 years of being a mom, what I and it's not an excuse, it's real life. What I have been able to invest each day has looked different in every season. And I just want for the listeners that are in the throes of these early baby years, or the toddlers and so many people that are homeschooling and women that are working full time. And you just feel like I'll never be able to do enough to make it matter. I just want to remind you that in the littlest things, in and again, this is not a sales pitch for dwell differently, but Something so simple as a tattoo on the inside of your wrist that maybe you're putting on your kids or you're just talking about. I love the verse. And I absolutely cracked up laughing today when I went to get the reference. I'm so bad at Bible references. I have so many scriptures that it's so hard for me to connect them to the actual reference, but it's the Deuteronomy, ironically, 6.7. So if you have any high schoolers or anything, you know, this whole crazy random trend of 6, 7, I'm like, oh, isn't that funny? I'll never ever forget Deuteronomy 6.7, but it says, love the Lord. I'm going to back up to 6.5 because I think it's important. Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your strength. These commandments that I give you today are to be on your hearts. Impress them on your children. Talk about them when you sit at home and when you walk along the road, when you lie down and when you get up. Tie them as symbols on your hands and bind them on your foreheads. Write them on the door frames of your house and on your gates. And I just think, man, how crazy too that what this verse is talking about is literally what you guys are doing at Dwell Differently. We're writing them. We're writing the words of God on our arm, on our wrist, on our whatever it is. You're putting it as your screensaver. You're talking about it throughout the day. And just encouragement to moms at all stages that showing your children Jesus doesn't mean an hour with your Bible on the couch. Although those are beautiful moments when we get them. But talking about it while you drive in the car, when you point out something in nature and you can say, look what God did, look what he gave us. Look at that person. Let's pray for them. My mom, every time we lived close to the hospital, every time that med flight helicopter, you'd hear it. It was really loud. Every time we heard it, our mom would stop and pray. And just something so I mean, I say so simple, but it's there's nothing simple about it. Something so impactful as stopping in our day to give thanks, to pray, to rejoice, to express gratitude, to confess, to forgive, just the power in that. How would you say that you have been able to take this company dwell differently and incorporate that into just the everyday? And what would be your encouragement for moms who are in that stage of, I feel overwhelmed by this, but I know it's important.

Parenting Through Scripture And Everyday Moments

Marriage Boundaries, Rest, And Sabbath Rhythms

SPEAKER_01 32:34

I mean, I would say, you know, here we we are talking about sort of the whole forest, which is God's word. Like it is massive and there's so much going on, and there's life for us in it. And yet, sometimes when we when we take the smallest leaf and we put it under a microscope and we see the veins of it, we consider the beauty in it, we we spend time just looking at it and considering like, what does this say about who God is? What does this say about his creation? If we do that with God's word, where it's like we just are holding on to one manageable piece, one tiny verse, even a part of a verse. There have been parts of verses that have just stuck with me and pulled me through hard seasons. Psalm 23, which was a super familiar part of scripture. I shall not want. He he leads me beside the quiet waters. And and there's this little phrase, he uh restores uh my soul. Four words. And I can't tell you how many times those those four words have spoken into my soul. He restores my soul. Or if you go back up into verse one, I lack nothing. Like there are just pieces of scripture that that come to me when I feel like I lack everything, when I feel like I am exhausted and burnt out, and I just need a little bit more sleep, or a little less to do, or a little bit less responsibilities, or one one or two less kids following me around and other people's kids. Why are they in my house? There are these times when we can get so in the in the moment, frustrated, impatient, overwhelmed. And yet, when we hide God's word in our hearts, it allows us to hear his voice speaking to us in that moment, saying what is true. Natalie, you lack nothing. Natalie, I am with you in Philippians 4. That whole do not be anxious about anything, but in everything by prayer and petition. Well, it starts out with rejoice in the Lord always. Again, I tell you, rejoice. Let your gentleness be evident to all. The Lord is near. And then it goes on to say, do not be anxious about anything. And that little, that little phrase, the Lord is near. Like we we wrote a Bible study about that passage of scripture. We get to memorize all of it. But that little phrase in writing that Bible study was like, What in the world? Why is that in there? Why, why is that in there? And I really think it's the hinge point, it's holding all of that together. It's like I can rejoice because the Lord is near. I can give him my anxiety because he is near. I can be gentle with other people because the Lord is near. I can have peace that transcends all understanding because the Lord is near. And yet, how many times have I skipped? Like I had that whole passage memorized, and I can remember thinking, oh, what is that one verse? I can never remember it. But when I spent time in it, when I really sat in it, I'm like, oh my gosh, that is the part that I need. That is the I need to remember that the Lord is near. And that's what happens when we memorize scripture, even just a little tiny phrase. I mean, this is possible for anybody who's listening today. If there is something that you are battling against, just if there is a hard thing that you are going through, if one of your kids is is having trouble with friends or is suffering or your parents are ill or whatever the thing is, we all have a thing. We all have something, this thing that we're carrying that is like, oh, it is like a cloud over us. And when we allow ourselves to ask God, God, would you speak into that? Would you give me a word? Would you just give me one phrase, one tiny, it could it could just be the name of Jesus? Like, Jesus, I just, I just need you in this moment. Jesus, your name is powerful. Jesus, you are the one who holds all things together. Whatever that is, you can Google it today. Bible verse about anxiety. Yeah. Cast all your cares on him because he cares for you. Bible verse about fear. Do not be discouraged. Do not be dismayed, for the Lord your God is with you wherever you go. There are so many verses. There's a verse for every situation. And it is because God Himself, He wants to remind you. He wants to tell you. He wants you to rely on Him in those crazy moments where everything is falling apart and everything is unraveling. He wants you to say that He is before all things and in Him all things hold together. And for that to be your anchor, for Him to be your anchor. It's not a magic wand that you can wave. It's the there's not the power in the Word of God is God's power because it's Him speaking. It's not like just because you you have that magic word that you say, then it's going to fix everything. No, it is God Himself speaking into your heart, speaking His love, His tenderness, His kindness, His presence, His comfort. He sees you, He knows you, He loves you, He wants to be with you, He wants to talk to you. And that's what He's doing in His Word. And I just I think that we live in a time where we've somehow convinced ourselves that doing something like memorizing scripture is for super churchy people or kids in their Bible memory stuff. It is for you. It is for you for right now. And it and it could be a thing that you memorize for a little while and it goes away. And you have something new that you're memorizing. You don't have to hold on to it forever. This is not, you're not getting badges in heaven. You don't have a little canvas vest that you wear with all of the Bible verses that you've memorized on it. Like, this is for you. It's just for you. And it's only for, I mean, it's not just for you. It's actually for everybody. Like what you were saying, Nikki. It's like when you're memorizing the dwell differently verses, for instance, you can do that with your kids. And now you're having conversations about what you're learning and what God is teaching you and how He's meeting you through that verse. And you can share it with other people who are like, What is that tattoo? What did you get a tattoo? Now it's temporary.

SPEAKER_00 39:23

But guess let me tell you what it's about. Sorry, I just blabbed a really long time. No, I love that. So many takeaways, but you know, that whole just that one thing. And you were talking about Psalms 23 and on your podcast this week, the scriptures are so clear that you can receive wisdom if you seek for it, if you ask for it. And, you know, I think so many times to the point that you made as there's overwhelm and there's decisions with kids, and the older our kids get different kinds of heaviness. And it's not small things anymore. It's now big life choices. And there's just a lot that can create this overwhelm, or I don't know what to do. And just asking God, give me wisdom in this, give me wisdom. And it says in scripture that when we we look for wisdom in scripture, we will be given it that those who seek it find it. And even just listening to the podcast about this, the Psalms 23, and you and Vera were talking, and you made reference to follow you all the days of my life, and you talked about the word follow. I think it was you that was saying it, that just the meaning of that word follow, which I'll let you share in a second with the listeners, but just how something that I have said over and over and over, I hear it as like he's behind me, following me. And what you shared about, share real quick what that was about what that word follow actually means.

One-On-One Kid Dates And Deep Talk

SPEAKER_01 40:43

It so it's actually a military term. It means to chase down. It is an aggressive term like everywhere else that you see it in scripture. It's it's used when it's like, okay, there's this big battle and the the enemy is running away and you're supposed to chase down after them, right? Like it's this idea of uh an unrelenting pursuit, right? And for God to say, I am unrelentingly pursuing you. It says, surely his goodness and love will follow me all the days of my life, will pursue me, will aggressively chase me down. Like it's it has this tendency, I think, in in us to be like, oh yeah, he's behind me, he's in front, you know, he goes before me. But it is, it is not that kind of follow me around. It is like you cannot get away. And it reminds me there's this old poem that talks about the hound of heaven. And in it, God is likened to a hound that is chasing after the writer, coming for him all the time. And though the writer is wandering, they're doing all the things they know they're not supposed to be doing, they're far off, and yet God is hounding them, he is following after them. His surely your goodness and love will hound me all the days of my life. Like God is is pursuing you with kindness, he is pursuing you with his love. And I just I love the idea that that word, you know, sometimes again, when you memorize something or when you spend time in a passage of scripture, something comes alive that you're like, whoa, I need to know that. I and honestly, for me, that is a prayer that I have for my kids, that God's love and his kindness would hound them. Like, God, would you hound my children? Would you chase after them? Would you pursue them unrelentingly, like the way that only you can, but not in a military aggressive kind of way, like judgment. And sometimes I think we when we think about God pursuing us when we're when we're wandering away. I think we think that. And yet we have no, this the goodness and the love, that's what's hounding us. Surely your goodness and love will hound me all the days of my life. And I will dwell in the house of the Lord forever.

Organic Faith At Home: Deuteronomy 6

SPEAKER_00 43:15

Like, oh, so good. And if a listener, if you're listening and you feel like, huh, maybe this is what I have been feeling in my spirit of just this constant nagging, heaviness, conviction of I know I'm supposed to be to, I don't like to use the word do. I'm supposed to be pursuing more actively, more intentionally. God's not looking for us to do, he's looking for us to pursue, to build relationships, to lean into. And maybe you've been feeling that. Maybe you have been feeling that unrelenting pursuit of the just the tap on the shoulder or the uneasiness in your spirit of there, there is more. I just encourage you to open your Bible, to get the Bible app and get that Bible recap, to go to the Dwell Differently website and start, start small, memorizing a scripture. And it's crazy how you talked about you might have a piece there and here and eventually. It is amazing what you can recall from nowhere. Like there are things, the Bible school songs that come up that 40 years later I can sing as if I was singing them yesterday and I haven't even thought about them in 25, 30, 40 years. And just the power of, I know we already said that hide God's word in our heart. And then there's the verse that says, out of the overflow of the heart speaks. And so when you think about what are you hiding in your heart, what is the overflow that's coming out of your mouth as a mom? When we look at our kids, when we look at, you know, it always typically can be traced back to what am I filling my heart with? What are my kids filling their hearts with? What's overflowing out of my teenager's mouths or my young adult's mouth or my mouth? And if it's not good, I need to change what I'm hiding in my heart. And it can't be Instagram and social media and the fun country songs and change just the little thing of we're gonna memorize a scripture a month as a family, or we're gonna turn off the country music. And it's not all bad. There are just times where our soul so badly needs straight truth. And the only place you are going to get straight truth for your family is in scripture. And I know I talk all the time about seeds worship. It's S-E-E-D S, like plant the seed. If listeners aren't familiar with that, this is something that you have to have for your family. My kids still, if the pastor reads a scripture and it's one of the seeds family worship songs, which is literal word-for-word Bible verses to music. And it's not cheesy. I sometimes put it on at night. My kids, like everybody in the row of chairs, will like look and they'll be like, we all know that because we sang that over and over and over. Um, but God's word, it will get hidden in your heart. It will get hidden in the hearts of your children. And just what a powerful gift that is. Natalie, I love what you guys are doing. I love in cultivating strong families. Scripture has to be the foundation of that. It's the cornerstone because scripture then leads us to the truth about salvation in Jesus. And that that is how we can then cultivate strong families. And if you're struggling in your family, if you feel like there's discontent, if there's there's just something missing, that you just have it in your spirit. Friends, I have to tell you, if you don't have a relationship with Jesus, that is the missing piece that can be the starting point to then the healing. And so I'm grateful for what you guys are doing. I love that, again, the mission is God is our everything. His words are life, living, breathing life. And he is for us. He is with us, he is on our side, he is fighting, he's an advocate, and he's fiercely pursuing us. And I would love, if you would allow me to kind of wrap this up, to just ask you a couple of things that I love to ask anybody we interview about marriage and family, because we've all lived it differently. We all see it differently. But would you tell me, with you and your hubby, you having a very successful big company, having five kids, him being in ministry, what do you guys do to really protect your marriage and to keep it a priority?

Teens, Tough Topics, And Trust

SPEAKER_01 47:32

Interestingly enough, we started something. Here's a this is this is like a just a fun tip. So being in ministry, both of us being in ministry, both at the church and then what I do for dwell differently, we create pretty firm boundaries. And we started that pretty early on in our marriage when we realized that there were people that we were friends with that we loved, but they felt like ministry. And they could be Christian, they could be non-Christian. But when we hung out with them on a Friday night, my husband would just be exhausted. And he would say, Oh, that was great, but it felt like ministry, right? And so I can, I'll never forget there was a night where I was like, hey, can we have so-and-so and so-and-so over? And he was like, like on Friday? And I was like, Yeah. And he was like, What about Tuesday? And I was like, Sh, okay. And he's like, I just feel like on a Tuesday night, I can do ministry, but on a Friday night, I want to spend it being restored. And so we have ever since then been very intentional about what are we doing to restore ourselves? And you could literally fill up every inch of your everything with ministry, like quote unquote ministry, and just burn yourself right out. Especially when you're when both of you are in ministry together, it can be a lot. And so to be able to say what is restorative for us, and he takes off Fridays because he works Sundays. So I take off Fridays, and together our Fridays are our restorative day. There are very few Fridays where we do a house project, where we do anything, really anything. And we try very much to protect it from, especially and this sounds so terrible, especially for ministry. As much as possible, we try to say this is that's like a Sabbath for us, and it's important for us in our relationship with one another. It's important in our in our rhythms to have a rhythm of rest. And it's it's just a recognition of like, hey, it's it's I don't control everything. If I step out, if God, you know, takes me today, He's still, he's still at work. The stones will cry out if I don't. He's got it. It's fine. So it is this sense of like a recognition of I can rest because the God of the universe does not sleep, and he is always watching over me. He is always taking care of all the things. He's the one who holds all things together. Before him are all things, like he's he's the guy. So I can trust in that, and I can trust that in our marriage. And it has been a very fruitful decision that we made. Kind of just knee-jerk decision one night. And it became like a oh, this is this is a this is gonna last forever.

SPEAKER_00 50:38

We will never not have some sort of space that we've created and set aside for ourselves and for rest. And ultimately, although it's not ministry to the outside world, you guys investing like that in your marriage is actual true ministry for your five children that are growing up right in a home with a mom and dad who love each other and prioritize. So, how have you guys, as parents, as people in ministry, I think the world assumes that it looks this certain way behind the doors of everybody marches around and we read our Bible and we do family devotions all the time. And you know, that's not always the reality. But what have you guys done? And what would be your encouragement to any mom listening about how they can incorporate rhythms, if there's certain rhythms that you have, or just ways to just make your kids so aware of the importance of relationship with Jesus?

Getting Started: Resources And One Verse

SPEAKER_01 51:36

Yeah. Interestingly enough, we've kind we kind of very early on sort of did the same thing with our kids, where because we have five kids and it's really hard to have one-on-one time with them, we would have dates with them and we would rotate them through. So it's like, you know, every week we'd have a date with one kid, or Jason would have a date, or I would have a date, whatever. And we it it was a lot easier when they were smaller because we didn't have a million activities or events. But at this point, now that almost I have one that's not quite a teenager yet, he's almost there. Now that they're all teens and you know, my oldest is 20, we have just this they just know that it's not weird. And I'm not, you're not gonna get in trouble if I invite you to have coffee with me. It's just gonna like my 20-year-old was home actually not long ago and was like, Hey, can we go get coffee together? It's just an interesting thing when your kid who lives in your house, who is sitting there with you and everybody else is around, is like, hey, mom, I'd love to get coffee with you. Because there's this intentionality then where you're allowed to talk about deeper things, ask questions, you know, find out what's really going on in their hearts. And it's, I just think that that specifically over time has borne the most fruit. You know, I recently had a conversation with one of my daughters that I'm like, I think this would be awkward if I hadn't, if we hadn't had already an established pattern of we talk about deep things. But it was like, well, I really want to talk about this particular subject with her. And I acknowledged it. I'm like, I is it does this feel awkward? She's like, no, that's totally great. Let's talk about it. You know, because there's this pattern of we talk through things, and whatever the things are, I'm gonna filter them through my faith in Christ and the gospel. And why, why it like I recently talked with another child and and told them that, you know, I'm like kind of disappointed. Older teens, there's a difference in how you parent them than when they're five, and you could be like, don't do that. Right. It's like, ah, I wish that you would make a better choice for yourself. One that reflects your heart being for Christ. And I feel like if that's what you want to do, it says something different about where your heart is. But I can have that conversation because I've had that conversation. We've had those conversations, and it's not something where they walked away and felt like mom is disappointed and angry at me. It was like my mom loves me and she is concerned about me. So she's telling me how she feels about the things that I'm doing.

SPEAKER_00 54:26

So that's a great reminder just about the relationship piece, right? It's like they always say you can't have one sex talk. You can't like sit your kid down at 12 and be like, here's the conversation, because that never works. It's a thousand tiny conversations over the stage of five years old to 25 years old. It's just this constant dripping and dripping and dripping and not making it weird. And just that reminder to be intentional in relationship and the fruit that that and you and I can both speak to as our kids get older, when they now have a choice to come to us or not. And when your kids return to you to say, can we have coffee? Can we chat about this? What a gift that is. Again, not quite as we can't say it as much as we can say it about how Christ pursues us, but just that same, that unrelenting pursuit of relationship with our children, no matter how difficult it is, and just to the importance of us controlling what we're putting out by what we're being fed from the word.

Free Bible Offer And Final Encouragement

SPEAKER_01 55:28

And I was gonna say, if you go back to that Deuteronomy 6 passage, it feels organic, right? It feels like talk about God's word when you get up and when you lie down, talk about God's word when you're on the road, talk about it with your children. Be sure to, there's just this sense of like everywhere is God's word. All the time is an opportunity to speak about Him. And instead of maybe, and sometimes like we we definitely were programmatic in a way. We're like, we're gonna have a date with our kids, we're gonna try to do it once a week with each of our kids rotating so they get like a month and a half in between times, whatever, that's not bad necessarily, but it shouldn't be the only time. If we're if we are, and and when we spend time in God's word and we're meditating on it and it's saturating us, and we're allowing it to inform our decisions when we're when we're constantly recognizing that God is present with me right now. We can say, like it's funny, one time one of my kids accused me when we were having like a hard conversation, and I was like, Oh, Lord Jesus, just help me. And they were like, Mom, and I'm like, oh no, that was a real prayer. Like, I need him to help me know what to say to you right now, and that I was really praying. And they're like, Okay, whatever, you know, but but there's a genuineness when when it's just it's just part and parcel with who you are and what you talk about. And I I do think that there is something beautiful, especially when they're younger, to be able to memorize scripture with them because you're having a conversation about the same thing. And again, you're creating, like in my house, it's normal that we talk about Jesus, like like going back to my you know bio, Natalie is a Jesus freak. Well, yes, my and my kids would they would be like, yeah, she kind of is kind of like, I don't know, you know, like they're just there's just something that they're like, oh, well, this is just who my mom is. And if your kids are older, even though it's okay to be like, this is what I'm really excited about now. I've I've decided I'm gonna do this. In fact, do you want to do, do you want to read the Bible with me this year? Do you want to do this with me? I'd love for you to do it with me. You know, just inviting them into that, speaking about it as if you're talking about the coolest thing that you just bought at Home Coods, that you're like, oh my gosh, I got this beautiful wreath for my front door for fall. It's like, oh my gosh, I just started reading the Bible and I read this. Did you know that? Just have those conversations and allow them to make fun of you because you're a mom and they're going to, but just persist. Yeah, be unrelenting in your pursuit of your children. And and they will, they will appreciate it, whether they make fun of you for it. This I know that they will.

SPEAKER_00 58:20

And they might roll their eyes, but I yeah, you know that it's it's being received. I think of just the other day I was driving with my 15-year-old son. We get a lot of alone time in the car. And because we talk about hard things, like we talked about with your testimony, the gospel can be offensive. And sometimes then we have to talk to our kids about things that seem offensive, or like, mom, I can't believe we're talking about this. And having a son has been a whole new world for me. But we talk pretty openly about the temptation and that the world wants nothing more than for you to have the internet and for you to fall into the hands of all things that you should not be seeing on the internet. And I'm gonna kind of talk vaguely here because I know that maybe some little ears are listening. But to be able to sit in the car with him the other day and share, hey, bud, I had read a statistic that I was reading a study that came out and it showed that it was specifically talking about men, that men who spend time daily in the word of God are 67% less likely to fall into addictions with electronics and viewing. And just to be able to have a conversation like that with him driving to basketball practice, to be like, man, I read this today. And isn't it crazy that you could reduce your risk of something like that, that could be detrimental, that could destroy a marriage, that could cause you just to have such a horrible path, that 67% reduction by reading your Bible every day. And so many times, if we haven't been having these conversations consistently for years, that's an awkward conversation. But he just was like, wow, that's that's amazing. That's really cool. And so I love that that's that that's what you came back to in that answer of just encouragement to build relationship in the tiny nooks and crannies in the coffee dates and the car conversations. Like I used to answer a lot of messages in the car. And I just felt God convicting me to be like, when you have your kids' attention in your car, turn off devices, just lean into that. There's pockets that we can do that. Natalie, I just feel like I could keep asking you questions forever. Maybe this will be a yearly date that we can have on the podcast. But I would love it. Talk to the listeners a little bit about where they can go. I know you mentioned real quickly the Bible study that you guys did called Dwell on These Things, focusing on Philippians 4, 4 through 9. And of course, there's tattoos with it, talking about finding joy, growing closer to God, worrying less, praying more, experiencing peace of mind and heart, and focusing on God. If you need a place to start, listener, that might be a great place for you to start. Just that Bible study book on Philippians. I know you have another book that you've authored. You have the podcast, you have a blog. Where can people find what you guys are doing day in and day out to help the word of God become live and real and active in specifically mama's lives?

SPEAKER_01 1:01:13

Yes. You can go to dwelldifferently.com. You can go to dwelldifferently on Facebook or Instagram. We're all over the place there. I don't think we sell our Bible study on our website, but we have a link to it. That's with LifeWay. So it comes with videos. It's it's a really, I mean, it was it's a it's a really amazing resource, the way that they offer the the digital components of that. And it does have temporary tattoos in the back there. So I was really glad we were able to do that. It's just, yeah, any way that you can just give yourself permission. Again, I would, I would bring back that idea. Like whether you follow dwell differently, whether whatever, who cares? What I what I want you to do is whatever that one thing is that you're struggling with, would you Google when you stop listening to this Bible verse about? Just write it on a three by five note card on one side, write the first letter of every word on the other side, put it someplace where you're gonna see it. Maybe even write those first letters on your wrist and sharpie markers so people can make fun of you, like my sister. But do that. Do that one thing. If you don't do any other thing, do that one thing. And it doesn't even have to be a whole verse, just a just a part of a verse. And remember it. Tell yourself, this is what God is saying to me, and allow God Himself to speak into your life.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:35

His word is life. Let it be life to you. Amazing. Listeners, I just feel a prompting that I'm supposed to say this. We've never, I've never done this before. But if you're listening and you don't have a Bible and that is something that you're interested in, maybe you feel way overwhelmed about how to even go about that, maybe resources are not that you have the extra to buy that in the show notes. You can find where to follow me on Instagram. And if that is something that you want, that you want a copy of the Word of God, there's awesome ways to get it digitally, but to have an actual Bible on your lap, on your table, next to your bed that you can open and read. If that is not something that you have access to, I want you to reach out to me on Instagram and we will make sure that we get an actual copy of the Bible into your hand so that just like Natalie, somebody gave her that Bible and God, in his perfect timing, just pursued her hard. He followed after her hard. And look what he can do with the most, you know, again, reading the Bible, the most broken of us. The most broken are the ones that sometimes have the most impactful testimonies because it's such evidence of death to life and old to new. And so just like Natalie said, our goal is that you just take a step towards Jesus. Stop leaning away, stop turning your back, just lean in. And so I think that's the difference right there, Natalie. When you talk about, I challenge you, go read others, go read other things. And the the living word of God, it does something to your soul. And I'm so grateful for that. And I'm so grateful for people like you and Vera who are making it accessible and just emphasizing the importance of having it in our everyday lives. So, listeners, share this episode. Be a light for your children, let your life be that example. Go find dwell differently, go Google the thing that you're struggling with and ask God to meet you in the darkest, most lonely places, and He will meet you right there. And so, Natalie, I'm just so grateful for your time and for what you've left our listeners with today. So thank you so much for being here. Absolutely. My pleasure. All right, friends. Well, until next week, take care.