73. Beauty From Ashes Story - Redemption, Obedience and Redefining Success with Debbie Neal

Today I get to sit down with a dear friend of mine, Debbie Neal.

For years, I’ve known Debbie as a woman of incredible drive and determination — a true leader, a go-getter, and someone who has inspired so many through her work and her example. But today’s conversation isn’t about her professional achievements. It’s about something far more personal — the way God has been working in her home and heart over the past several years.

Debbie and Scott are parents to four children. Several years ago, their marriage hit a breaking point, and they ended up divorcing. For a while, it seemed like the story had reached its end. But somewhere in the middle of all that pain and searching, Debbie encountered Jesus in a way that completely changed her life.

What followed is nothing short of a redemption story — one that only God could write. Over time, He began softening hearts, healing wounds, and restoring what was broken. Debbie and Scott not only found forgiveness but found their way back to one another. And now, years later, they’re preparing to remarry — a beautiful symbol of God’s grace and restoration.

We talk about what led to that season of separation, how Debbie found Jesus in the middle of it, what reconciliation looked like, and how her obedience to God has rippled through her family.

And we’ll end by talking about what success looks like now — not in terms of accomplishments or titles, but in the peace and purpose that come from walking in step with God.

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Transcript

Welcome And Guest Introduction

SPEAKER_00 0:01

Hey friends, I'm Nikki Smith, your host here at A Heart That Beats for Home, the podcast where we're ditching filters and diving headfirst into the raw beauty of all things home. Now, I am no expert when it comes to this whole parenting and marriage dance. I'm simply a gal who's been riding the mom roller coaster for 22 years and a wife still untangling the mystery of it all 25 years after saying I do. My goal is to bring you unapologetically messy and boldly genuine conversations about cultivating strong families. We're gonna laugh, possibly cry, and straight talk about the joy and chaos that comes within the four walls that we call home. No judgment and certainly no perfection. Just real talk from my heart, a heart that beats for home. Let's dive in. Hello, friends. Welcome back to another week on the podcast. Grateful to have you here with us another week. I know I always say I'm super excited about today's show, but you guys, we have just been so blessed with so many amazing guests over the last several months. And today is no different. Today we get to hear from somebody who is a dear friend of mine. But what I'm super excited about is I'm gonna have a conversation with my friend on a different topic than we get to talk about a lot. I've known Debbie for about 19 years. We have worked in the same company for almost two decades. And Debbie, from the day I heard her name, has been a go-getter. And I have been so privileged to sit at her feet as she has led from the front in all areas of business, always a top performer, and just been so encouraged by her in business. But what I have been most in awe of in Debbie's life is watching a transformation that has transpired over the last handful of years as she has really come to a place of knowing and understanding what relationship with Jesus Christ looks like and how it has drastically transformed not just her own life, but the ripple effect that it has had on the life of her family. Debbie has a husband. You'll hear more about that, a husband, a husband to be. Scott, they have four beautiful children, a set of twins in there, all young adults and just living life to the fullest. Her daughter, Brooke, was just married. And so just fun, exciting times. And I could go on and on about Debbie's professional accolades. I will mention that she has an amazing podcast called Level Up with Debbie Neal, which has over four million downloads, a great place to go, just for encouragement. So be sure to check that out. But Debbie, I would love for you just to kind of start to tell us a little bit, just kind of about your family, maybe even take us back to the beginning, back when you and Scott met and got married, and just the early parts of your life together.

SPEAKER_01 2:48

Wow. Okay. I'm glad you were. First of all, thank you for having me on here. And I'm glad you were just specific with where to even start. So let's see. That journey with Scott and I and my family really began actually when I was younger. Scott and I have known each other most of our lives. Both of us grew up on Long Island. I grew up on a street called Fraser Court, and he grew up on Frasier Drive. So that lets you know how close we are. So we went to high school together. We were not high school friends, but our families were very good friends. You ever have those friends of the family that you call the parents aunt and uncle, but they're not your aunt and uncle? So he called my parents aunt and uncle. I called his parents aunt and uncle, which was interesting because later I had to explain to my friends that I was not marrying my cousin. But I did always introduce the Neils as these are my cousins, because that's how our parents were very, very good friends. Back in the day, his sister, I was actually dating somebody in college. We were like on our way out. He went away to play professional hockey and it was kind of ending. And his Scott's sister was getting married, and his mother at the time didn't invite me with a date. God rest her soul. Now that I just planned a wedding, I'm like, who invites a 21-year-old just with a date that's not that serious? So he joked around. He's like, we could dance. And I was like, oh, awkward. Well, long story short, we had a great time at that wedding. We did dance, and we were together from that point on. And so we got engaged pretty quickly after I graduated college. I would say we were dating maybe five months, and we got engaged. I think we knew that night, like I knew him my whole life, but just never thought of him that way, if that makes sense. And we got engaged. We did not have a very good engagement, which probably was something that, you know, you could go through things in your life that you're like, it just wasn't dealt with properly, and it's going to come up at some point. Very, very sadly, his mother was dying of cancer. She got diagnosed and she died. We had to actually cancel our first wedding because it was either she was going to be on hospice or she was going to pass away. Like we were a month before and realized that we needed to make a change in the date. So canceled that wedding. And my mother was battling mental illness, so it was in and out of institutions. So, you know, it's interesting because even when you see somebody on a professional level, and I've heard many times, oh, Debbie Neal must have just had it like easy and things handed to her. Like if people really knew sometimes some of the things people go through. But we did then get married a year later, and it was wonderful. The day was wonderful, but the engagement itself was really challenging. Having to call off an engagement, possibly not having my mother there. She was not having his mother there. So we definitely went through things at a young age. I was, I got engaged at 21 and married at 23. I know, so it's not so so young, but it kind of is, especially in today's world. I look at my daughter who just got married at 26. I'm like, 21 would have been a baby. And yeah, so we got married and then pretty much knew we wanted to have children right away. I started a journey which and I I did go through something traumatic when I was 21 years old, and that all plays into it as well, and was actually told I would never have children. So I didn't buy into that story. Thank God I did not buy into that story. So we started on a fertility journey. It did take me three years to get pregnant with Brooke. She was my first, she was my miracle baby. And then we had Tyler two years later, and then we were blessed with twins, Bailey and Ryan. So that's kind of the beginning of our story.

SPEAKER_00 6:30

Oh, yeah, that's a lot to go through in an engagement. A lot of heavy stuff on it.

SPEAKER_01 6:35

Like I watched Brooks' engagement, it was really fun.

Infertility, Motherhood, And Grit

SPEAKER_00 6:39

Yeah, that's it. So I love that you said I didn't buy into that story. Cause I feel like if if there is like Debbie Neil hyphen didn't buy into that story. I feel like that kind of summarizes when I look at you. If there is, if there is one person in the world that I would not make an excuse around, it would be Debbie Neal. This is the one person that you do not want to make an excuse in front of because she is mentally tougher than anybody I have ever come across. Just this steel gate, again, which is so much of what your podcast is about, just minding your mind. And so you have these little babies. You're doing, if I remember correctly, your corporate America. So we're gonna fast forward a little bit to when then you decided to start building a business from home. And I know that you've said, I love these babies. It is so clear that your children are your whole world. You and I are built very similar that yes, that is my calling. Being a wife, being a mom is my calling. Also, I'm very driven. And so you make this shift into your network marketing career and have unbelievable success, just crazy success. Obviously, because of all the hard work that you are did and are doing. Do you feel like in that part of your life, some things inside of you maybe started to change? Did success start to look a different way? What do you think happened when you came into that, that crazy success in your business?

Leaving Corporate And Finding Purpose

SPEAKER_01 8:03

Kind of also goes back to that time when I was also told I could never have children. So I did go through something very hard. And I, now that I truly know what it's like to have a relationship with Jesus, I know that was done for me, not to me. And we don't, when we go through pain, you know, the life of a Christian is never promised to be easy. It's not like, oh, I have a relationship with Jesus. So everything is gonna be great. That was a that was actually a time in my life where I'm like, where was Jesus? I don't maybe, you know, I I questioned my faith. And so, long story short, what I was in the hospital for I want to say four or five days. I don't really remember. I was told I wouldn't be able to have children, but all of that was setting me up for what I know my my purpose was in the professional world, but and also the faith-driven world, because I don't believe the business came to me. I originally I thought it came to me because I'm so driven and I'd be great at this, but no, it was a vehicle that God presented to me and He prepared me to lead. He prepared me for mental toughness, he prepared me to show people what was possible. In my mind, I looked hard in the face. So this was absolutely nothing. And so I definitely was one of those women prior to being introduced to our company that was like, I will, I don't even understand stay-at-home moms. I didn't have kids. I was like, I don't understand stay-at-home moms. What do they do all day? Don't I was just one of those women that I'm just always gonna be driven and be successful. And I think part of it was I built a wall around me. Again, going back to when I built a wall around me. And I was like, I'm not weak, I am strong, I have to protect myself. And I don't want to be just a stay-at-home mom that's going out to lunch. Mind you, going out to lunch is like my favorite thing. I absolutely love it. So P.S. I was I did walk away from my corporate job when I was pregnant with Tyler. But after Brooke was born, I was like, I love her more than I've ever loved anything in my life. And there's not, there's not a job in the world that I would want to do that would bring me away from her. But our household ran on two incomes. So I didn't have choices. I didn't have the luxury. The great thing was that I made a nice living because it was back in, let's see, I'm with my company 19 years, our company 19 years, I was home for five years. And so when I retired from there, I was making about 160,000, which at the time was not chunk change. Like today, I feel like it's not that much. But it was, it was a decent amount then. But it was a nice living, but it was too much to walk away from. I couldn't afford to walk away from it. So I worked for another two years, ended up quitting my job. I ended up babysitting kids to make ends meet. I'm like, I need 50,000. If I could just make 50,000. And then I was watch, I was like a professional butt wiper and I was home with my kids, and I was literally praying for more. Like I was praying, and we do not know how our prayers are going to be answered. Sometimes we think we do. Like, in fact, I went through something totally off topic, something family related. It was really hard when it came to Brooks' wedding. And I'm I have one sibling, and my brother wasn't there, and he's going through some stuff in his life. And I was praying and praying, please make him be there, please make him be there, please make him be there. When I finally, I was like, I know the way this works. I'm surrendering this to you, God. And whatever's best for everybody's well-being, please make that be. And unfortunately, he wasn't there, but I do have to have faith that that was what was best. So, long story short, I was praying and praying of just what I wanted my life to look like. I wanted to serve others. I wanted to coach, I wanted to mentor, I wanted to help other people tap into their God-given potential. I wanted to teach people what it was like to build a no matter what mindset and achieve more than they could and defy the odds and not let a story. We have so many limiting beliefs. Somebody could have told somebody when they're younger, you're not smart enough, you're not pretty enough, you're not good enough, you're not worthy enough. And then they hold on to that story forever, the way I was told, you'll never be a mom. Like we're here to tell you you will never be a mom. And I was like, who are these people? They're not God. And so that's where my journey to the professional world began. And then when I was introduced to our company, our opportunity, I remember I was like, I never sold a thing in my life. I don't know anything about this industry. Like, I'm not putting catalogs in people's mailboxes. What have these people lost their mind? And then I realized it actually checked every single one of my prayers. And who was I? Who was I? Like maybe this is just the thing that I've been praying for. Maybe my entire life I've been prepping for this. And so, yeah, on a leap of faith, said yes.

SPEAKER_00 12:39

Doesn't always come in the way that we think a long time ago, read a book. I can't remember what the title was, but it was a workbook where it was literally taking you through all these different things that you've done in your life, like going way back to leadership skills that you had. What's the first job that you had in high school? What were the tasks that you had to do? What did it teach you? What it goes through all these things that if you looked at them individually, you would never say, like that job as a bank teller or that thing there would lead me to a skill that God's putting all of these things together in one perfect package to equip me for this thing that very well could be the main calling that he's going to use on my life. And I see that kind of woven through your story of just all these little things that he he wove together to put you in that place at that time to be able to accept that gift, even same for me. Yeah, never. This is not what I'm looking for. This is this is not for me. And then ultimately receiving that something that we're not sure of, but we're going to accept it and run with it. So you build this huge, successful career. Everybody looks to you as someone, like you said, has it all just you touch it and it turns into magic. You earn all the trips, your name is everywhere, you're training on the huge stages. And yet, behind the scenes, what none of us know is that at home, life is kind of crumbling apart. Can you tell us a little bit about what was happening in your marriage as your career was taking off and really you were in front of everybody, the the pieces of your private world that were kind of falling apart?

Success, Ego, And Drifting Faith

SPEAKER_01 14:11

Well, one of the things that I do want to say, because we could have listeners that think this and people have asked this. People said, Do you think it's because you became very successful that that played a role in your marriage falling apart? And looking back on it, I would say no. I was very blessed. Scott was very, very supportive of my business. But what I do think played a role, and we realized there was it takes two people usually to mess something up, unless somebody does something very much out of integrity, which neither one of us did. But we both started to take each other for granted. And I think that that's very easy to do. People could do it professionally. I've taken my company for granted. I'm sure you have as well. So we definitely took each other for granted. We were not praying together. We were relying on our own will. And one of the things we we started to notice each other's flaws as opposed to one another's gifts. And I think that that could happen with anything. And I know for me, probably the the thing that put the nail in the coffin, I didn't realize it till later. I gave myself the option to quit. And once you give yourself the option to quit, whether it's in a marriage, whether it's in a business world, a company, because I could bring everything back to our company, you know. Right. Once you give yourself that option, then you're every day you're gonna be making a choice. And the ego's gonna come in and the devil is gonna come in. And it's gonna say things like, you know, is there somebody else for you? Maybe you got married too young. Maybe you're doing a disservice to your family to stay together. Are you just are you guys just settling? Is the spark left? And by the way, the spark and everything eventually leaves. Like it's just not gonna be like, you know, a honeymoon phase forever. And the love is and the commitment is, and but so we just started to have conversations like that. And then when those conversations compound, at some point you're like, Well, we keep having these conversations, but again, once there's the option to quit, then those conversations are had. Does that make sense? It was just then even after we got divorced, I was like, we we were as good as a divorce could be was ours, thank God. So everything was very amicable. I mean, nobody wanted it. There was times that was there was times that there was some ugly times, but there was always respect and there was always love. And I can honestly say that I don't think I badmouthed him once to anyone. If there's somebody listening here that says you did, I don't I don't think I did. I would always say, like, I might have been mad at him, but like I love him and I respect him, and and I believe he did the same for me, which made it easier to reconcile because sometimes you could say words that cannot be taken back, or you can hurt somebody and it and it and it can't be taken back. But we definitely relied on our own will instead of God's will. And we weren't built on a foundation of I let my faith absolutely go to the wayside professionally and with my family. I relied in my business. I remember even I could go back and watch some of my trainings, and I am very blessed. I've spoken on the main stage many times, and I know it's a gift from God, but I could watch some be like, I don't even know. I would give all not that I would give glory to myself, but you could tell that I was giving glory to myself or my team or my company. And I just wasn't, I wasn't publicly thanking God for the platform and the gift. So I just, I think I just started to do things on my will and my human thinking and my human emotion and not conversing with Jesus. Like now when I'm stressed about something, I literally lay at his at his feet and just say, like, I need guidance, I need help, I cannot do this alone. And I never said that once during our process and through the years of, and I have to say, the years were never bad. Things were crumbling, but even when we had to tell our children, which was devastating, they were shocked, like shocked because we didn't fight. We didn't, we never raised our voices. We just started to coexist. And we started to coexist because we just weren't focusing on love and gratitude and Jesus. We were focusing on what was wrong, each other's faults, which by the way, we both have a lot. Like a lot. I think I went through a period of time that I didn't think I had that many, but I could alphabetize them.

SPEAKER_00 18:45

It's funny how we get humbled in that process, isn't it? Right. You even mentioned in another podcast that I was listening to of yours, where you were talking to somebody that there was even a time in 2012 that you kind of stood on a platform of faith and business should not be combined. Those should be two separate things. And that's so difficult for me. I'm gonna back up a little bit. So when Debbie came in, I'm only in the business one year longer than Debbie. So Debbie came onto the scene really in the infancy of me starting to build a business. And just, I mean, powerhouse is just what I think of you, Debbie, and just the way that you present and everything. And I remember a time in a Maui leadership retreat where you were on a panel, and I remember having this feeling inside of if Jesus ever really gets a hold of her spirit, and there is faith and this just passion and conviction that I see in her every time. Literally, I remember thinking that would be the most unbelievable thing to see is somebody with your conviction for all things, for all things. You even just posted today, I think on Instagram, John Maxwell, about when you're with somebody who talks about something so passionately that even if it's not something you're passionate about, when you're in a room with somebody that's just that passionate, you listen, you you might not be passionate about the thing, but something inside you stirs. And I just remember having this feeling sitting there in Maui thinking, if if she ever truly has a relationship with Jesus and recognizes him as her savior and king and lord of her life, watch out. And so what happened in I think 2020 was kind of a pivotal year for you that kind of maybe started to humble you, bring your attention back into focus. What happened? So the divorce is is divorce done now in 2020?

Marriage Unraveling Without God

SPEAKER_01 20:33

Divorce is done, yes. We got divorced in 2017, in 2016, finalized in 2017. I went through something professional that brought me to my knees. Literally brought me to my knees. And it was something that I remember thinking, oh my gosh, the devil did this. But I was like, no. When once I was on the other side of this, God did this. And he did it for a few reasons. One, I was not on a tithing journey. So I would definitely donate like when I felt like it, or like I thought I was very generous, but I wasn't consistent. And so he showed me basically that if you don't want to do everything you have is because of me. And if you're not willing to give to me first and have faith that I will multiply this and I will use this to serve many, then you are not deserving of what I have given you. So, and you know, you kind of learn if people do take a journey to tithing. Like if you don't want to give voluntarily and with joy, that money's gonna go somewhere anyway. Maybe your car is gonna break down, maybe you're gonna have an unexpected bill that's gonna show up. Like it's gonna, you you could give it joyfully or you could give it not, not joyfully, but it's gonna go either way. And so there was that journey. There was also really me giving glory to myself, my team, my company, and not to God. And also, I went through a period of time where really you should idolize nothing but Jesus. And I didn't know who I was outside of my company. I didn't. When I thought of myself, I I completely aligned myself with what I did professionally. And if it wasn't gonna be there for whatever reason, I had no idea what I was. Out, I knew I was a mom, I knew how much I loved my children. That was always there, but like just this fear of what am I if I'm not Debbie Neal. And so going through that journey, number one, I spent months doing nothing but reading and journaling. So I discovered an author, Bob uh Bob Goff. Bob Goff. I love him. Yeah, Bob Goff. Yeah, my favorite. So yeah, and you and I communicated that summer. So I think, and I also discovered an author, Catherine Ponder, who I was like meant to find her. And she talked a lot about tithing and just I read every single one of her books, and I read every single one of Bob's books in these months that I spent some time journaling, and I just it just it literally transformed me. And that was the beginning of Scott and I reconciling things because when I was really nervous, I didn't eat or sleep or or do anything for I want to say it was like five or six days. I ended up passing out cold. It's amazing how when we take on stress ourselves, what it could do to our body. Again, during that time, I was not relying on God. I was, I definitely was praying. And I at that point, I was really listening to amazing spiritual music that was sent to me that that I'm so grateful for. And I started my journey then. But when Scott came over, he's like, What's going on? He saw me in the kitchen. I'm like, nothing, I'm fine. He's like, You're not fine. Go in the back room immediately. And so as I was explaining, I immediately fell into his arms. Like we were divorced, we were actually both seeing other people at the time. And he was just there, like because we were always a team. And at that very moment, I realized nothing really matters but my core, my team, my core family. And so sometimes it takes just what seemed devastating at the time. When I look back now, it was not devastating, but it's all perspective. And so that was the beginning of really my journey back to Jesus and our journey of getting back together. Which still took a few years, but it was the beginning of it.

2020 Crisis And Spiritual Awakening

SPEAKER_00 24:35

It is interesting when you've you've done so much life together. You've created these four children, and there's just those roots that bond you together in the way that when you're married to somebody is supposed to. It's the way that God intended it, that there's that soul connection. And so you have this. I remember, I'll never forget. I remember one day talking to you. I was up on a ladder painting our house at the lake that summer. And I mean, what you went through, so many people would have said, throw in the towel, done. This is too hard. And you, although you went through that stage of not eating and the passing out, you you have a way of pretty quickly coming around. There was even some humor a couple of weeks in, but immediately started to hear you asking those questions about what is this supposed to teach me. I love that you say it's for me, not to me, that sometimes God has to use really big things to get our attention. And I think sometimes the more self-driven, self-motivated, charge after the goal people that we are, the bigger the thing it takes. Where some somebody might be able just to have like a little speed bump and they say, Oh, okay, I get the message. Myself, I feel sometimes God has to put a crater in the road so I fall into the pit and have to bear crawl my way out to go, like, oh, I get it. I can't do this alone. So you start to reconcile. So now, fast forward, you're, I think too, there's an important part of this where your family starts to kind of come on this journey of reconciling faith. And your daughter played a big role in that. What did that look now as your kids are older? They're starting their own lives, and specifically your daughter, Brooke, really kind of honing into her own faith.

Tithing, Identity, And Surrender

SPEAKER_01 26:15

Yes. So in 2021, we bought a house in Palm Beach. And it was at that point I was brought up Catholic, Scott was brought up Methodist, our children were Catholic. So they went to religion, they got their communion, they got their confirmation. We would go to church from time to time. We prayed. So there was there was a belief there, but there wasn't a relationship with Jesus. So it was two very different things. And so one of the many blessings, we bought a home, and by that home was a Christian church called Christ Fellowship that we started to go to and take our family there. And Brooke really at that, I think it was that was the beginning for her, which again, that house just brought so many. And I remember, I'm embarrassed to say this. So I have a friend who's with the same company as us, Deanna Heron. And back in 2012, we were visiting her, our family was visiting her family and staying there in Oklahoma. And she took me to her church, I believe it's Life Church. And so I was brought up Catholic. That's all that I knew. I walked into this church, I'm like, what on earth is going on here? What who I am so perplexed at this whole situation. It was big, it was loud, there was music. The pastor wasn't even in person. He was on a video. I'm like, you know, we say don't judge. I was judge in every which way but Sunday. I'm like, this guy's in Tahiti somewhere making money off this church on a live stream, because I see him from the beach, you know, there was and I happened to go on a week where it was like really pushing tithing. So I think that's what also gave me a bad taste because I was like, I was doing, I was calculating her income and my income, what 10% like would be. So I'm like, these people have lost their mind. And so that was the beginning of like, okay, we need to crack you open. Like that was the beginning of I was hard and I was closed. And so now, fast forward in 2021, we started going to this church and Brooke really, it just grabbed her heart. It grabbed her heart and she just started really leading with it. And you know, we didn't, whenever we were there, we didn't miss a Sunday. When we weren't there, we would watch online, but then she really took those bold moves. It's like, well, when we're not there, which is basically three quarters of the year, we need to find a church. And so she found a local church and just started to really commit and get involved. And again, whether you're talking business, I mean, it takes one person to go first and to really not just go first, because again, I could bring everything back to some people dabble, some people are interested. But when you see that real commitment, you start to see, you know, she started to really read the word and and just live by it. And so that was the beginning of it. And then it really we caught on to it very, very quickly. And now, you know, Bailey, gosh, Bailey, it was also a blessing. Like her her roommate, which was like her dearest friend, who obviously she didn't know when she was a freshman. She is a Christian, goes to church every Sunday, very involved, immediately enrolled, Bailey. It was just like everybody was placed in our lives at the right time, at the right place. So Bailey is like, I think, how blessed am I that I have a college student that's a junior that is just living a total life that I did when I was a junior in college? I was going out and eating and and just having fun with my friends and socializing. And I talked more than I did my work and I would oversleep for my classes. And I was always a good kid. Never did a drug in my life, never stole anything, never got into trouble. Like I was a good kid, but I definitely was not building a relationship. With Jesus at that point in my life. So I watch Bailey. Now I have my son Tyler, who's getting married in June. He is so in his commitment that, you know, he he reads the Bible hours a day and he lives and memorizes and he's very involved with the church. He was living with his fiance and they decided to live apart the same way Brooke did once they really understood, you know, you can't go back and change things, but you could make things new. All things could be made new. So they came to us and said, you know, would it be okay to come back home? We want to live apart until we get married. So I'm like, what a blessing. And then their version of living apart was both living in my house, just in separate rooms. So I'm I'm very blessed. So we have this big house for a reason, and I just cherish the time with them. So really everybody has been on this journey. And it just, it just, it actually feels full and it feels rewarding. And it just feels like anytime I worry, or I even Tyler, who's like looking for a new job now, he has an incredible job, and he's like looking to challenge himself more. And he's like, there's times like that I do get stressed, and he's doing everything he can. I'm like, because we're always going to have those human tendencies. You're not gonna, we're not gonna have this relationship and never stress again and never worry again and never feel guilt again or never feel shame again. Like we know those are human things that we're not supposed to feel, but we're human. And so it's it's just constantly a process, but we're on it together.

SPEAKER_00 31:36

It's been really cool, specifically with Brooke, to follow her on social media and when she came out publicly and shared their decision. So they had taken people on the journey on social media of our new apartment and which one should we choose? And we're moving in together. And then for them to walk that back and be like, we feel convicted. To me, it's so to me, that's unreal because 90% of people, even if they knew in their heart this is what I should be doing, the path of least resistance says, we're engaged, we're gonna be married soon. It doesn't matter. In four months, it'll all be null and void. And just to see that conviction in action, I think is so, so powerful to do hard things that the world doesn't get. So many people, I'm sure, watch that and thought, oh, they are drinking the Kool-Aid, something weird is going on. But just that conviction of when you start to have a relationship with Jesus, when you're reading the Bible, it's not a list of do's and don'ts just for rules. It's for I want the best for you. And I think it's so hard sometimes for people, even in your situation in 2020. So many people would never say, this was because God wanted something even better for me to totally wreck me and take so much away because ultimately the next step was blessing and abundance beyond what I could ever imagine. So it has been amazing to watch your kids with the same kind of vigor go after their relationship with Jesus, not just a religion. So bring us current, Debbie. So you just recently posted on Instagram that you said yes again, and you and Scott are getting remarried. What was your kids' reaction to mom and dad are getting remarried? I can't imagine as a child walking through the emotions of divorce and then separation for quite a few years and then now getting back together. What have the kids said to you or expressed to you?

Family’s Faith Revival And Church

SPEAKER_01 33:28

Well, I think some of them were like, oh my gosh, we totally knew this was gonna happen. Because there was just definitely, you could tell, always love there. But then I'm sure some of them walk through like, are we sure? My kids have been amazing and they've been kind and they've been gracious and they've been really amazing because this really could have messed them up. Divorce is not easy. It's really not. So I think they have that complete faith now that this is forever. We're good, we're solid, but they really have been, I think they're excited. They were really excited when we got re-engaged. They knew about it. I kind of knew it was coming, but didn't know it was gonna be when it was. I actually looked horrific. I was like cooking chicken, my hair looked like a crazy person. When people know things are gonna happen, Scott's like, you must have known today. I'm like, no, I would have absolutely blown out my hair. Like women, if we know we're going somewhere, we blow out our hair, we put on something cute. But no, I I looked awful. So I definitely didn't know it was then. But I'm very, I'm very grateful. And there's a part of me that just kind of feels like I already am married because if now I know like what God has brought together, no man can separate. Separate.

SPEAKER_00 34:39

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 34:39

Right. So in my mind, I actually it was recognized in church by God. Like I feel like I'm married, but I'm clearly not yet.

SPEAKER_00 34:51

Right.

SPEAKER_01 34:52

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 34:52

So exciting for your family. You know, Debbie, I know that a lot of listeners, marriage is is tough, and marriage takes a lot of work and it takes consistent effort, takes dying to self, it takes Christ as the foundation. So there are a lot of marriages that probably the listeners feel like, I don't know if it's reconcilable. And clearly we're talking about every day just discontent, looking at the flaws, just the wear down of normal relationship. And a lot of people that probably think it's too far gone, the wounds are too deep, I don't know that it can be saved. What is your words of wisdom, your encouragement, a couple of tips to somebody that feels like, I don't know, I'm I'm right here hanging on by a thread. What would you speak into the hearts of those men or women?

SPEAKER_01 35:43

Well, first I would say we're living in a world today with so much distraction and so much opportunity to question your marriage. There's so many subliminal messages of, you know, is this right? You could do better. There's so many, there's so much temptation to rely on your own will. Like, so there were many times that I would get lost in my phone when I should have been present making conversation. And I'm not that way anymore. There's nothing going on in my and I used work as an excuse. Work was never the reason. We were the reason. So if anybody's thinking, because somebody said to me, Oh my gosh, if I become successful, is that gonna be no, it was not my business, it was not my company, it was I I know if I could speak just for me, I was not present. Be fully present and make quitting not an option. We live in a world to people quit businesses easily, they quit marriages easily. I'm one of those people. I did it. And so it was sometimes it feels easier to quit than to give something you're all. And again, that's business. That that could be a friendship, that could be a marriage. And what I could tell you, when I got divorced, there was still a lot of love there. There was love and there was respect. So again, we're not talking about if somebody was abused, if somebody was mistreated. This is just the we were like the typical people who just took each other. There, there would even be times where I felt judged because he'd be like, Why do you have to be so driven? And why do you always have to have a goal? And and and I'm I'm probably saying it in a way that he wasn't saying it. Right. That's how you heard it in your heart. Yeah, I'd go to like all my kids' games. Like I I'm I'm their biggest like chiller, unless I truly had a work thing that was paying for our life, and my kids understood that. But every now and then he'd be like, Wait, look at all the other moms, and they bake all this stuff and they bring, and I'm like, I'm not like them. Look at them, which was judgy on my part too. I'm like, what now they could be contributing nothing financially to the family, and that's amazing too. But I was like, Do you have any idea what I bring to this table? So again, there was a lot of conversations like that. It wasn't about morals, it wasn't, but it was just there was resentment buildup. There was I felt not appreciated, he felt not appreciated, and gratitude and love fixes everything. So like you have to figure out what you're grateful for. And I could tell you on the other end, there is absolutely nothing better than a family unit. The devil wants to break up families. The world that we live in today wants to break up families. Nothing is more powerful than the family unit. And I am very blessed because I love Scott very much. But even in the time we're apart, and we were apart like eight years, we both I had a relationship that was really good. And he was a good person, an amazing person, and there will always be, you know, an immense amount of care. But there's nothing like the father of your children, the mother of your children, when people get married, when they have grandchildren. I don't want to say it makes it easier. It just makes things right. It's supposed to, in an ideal world, be that way. And I think it really hit me like a ton of bricks when Brooke got engaged. I was like, what would that look like? And when Brooke first got engaged, I was single. I think he was single. This is now going back. And I was like, what would that even look like? Like it wouldn't even make sense without my core family. So you have to really think of what's really important. And when I realized that, everything else is workouttable. Everything else is figure outable. And there's things about him that's never going to change. There's things about him that's going to annoy me to the point that I want to rip my eyeballs out. And I'm sure it's going to be the same for him. But at the end of the day, he's my person till I take my last breath. And my family unit is everything to me. And once that decision is solid, everything else gets figured out. There's not an option. And it's not called settling, it's called having a convicted heart and deciding.

Kids’ Convictions And Bold Choices

SPEAKER_00 40:01

It goes back to that saying, choose your heart. I think so often we get into a situation and think, well, this marriage is really hard. Well, like you said, guess what? Divorce is hard. Parenting children separately is hard. And so so many people are willing to close the door on one thing that feels hard without really taking inventory of potentially how much harder the results of that decision are going to be in so many areas. Again, you can take it back to work, you can take it back to your health. Exercising every morning is so hard when you just think about it. Harder is a body that's breaking down and not being able to run with your grandchildren. And I think your story is such a beautiful example of how human, humanness, human sin nature of, you know, looking again, take the plank out of your own eye. And specifically in marriage, it can be so easy to keep an account of wrongs that becomes what feels like an unsurmountable pile when what you just said is once you have a convicted heart of this is God's way, this is what I want my grandkids' legacy to be, this is what I want my legacy to be, this is what I want my kids to remember. I think that's super, super powerful. So moving forward, what would you say? Have have you in your own heart redefined maybe from the Debbie Neal of 2012? What, if somebody asked you, what does success look like? What would maybe 2012 Debbie Neal has said versus what Debbie Neal today in October of 2025? What would Debbie say?

SPEAKER_01 41:34

So the Debbie Neal of today's success would be is that I would wake up every single day in my prayers that I can live like Jesus, that I could be like Jesus, that I could love people like Jesus, that I could forgive people like Jesus. And so that to me is success. And that doesn't come easy because we meet challenging people and we have the human feelings of worry and fear. I will go through things in my business, you will go through things in your business. I have a very different outlook. There's like a complete calmness about it. And it doesn't mean that I'm not here to work hard, but I think in 2012 it was that everything was about how I can make it better, how I can fix things. And and now I need to do my part because I have faith, but it's up to my part to do action. Like it's I have to do my part for Jesus to do his part. But that to me is success, that I could literally live my days and love people the way he did.

SPEAKER_00 42:35

What has been the reaction from those closest to you? Because that's a big, that's a big, you know. I've I've heard from authors that said every time I publish a book, I'm like, dear Lord, if I take back everything I wrote this whole book about, because in 10 years or 15 years, you've changed my heart, you've changed my perspective. That's one of the dangers I think of having a voice and having an influence is you can sometimes go back and think, I cannot believe I said that. Or I'm retracting that whole chain of thought. How has it impacted those around you? What conversations have happened when people have seen just this 180? And how exciting is that for you to be able to have those conversations?

SPEAKER_01 43:13

You know, it's it's actually been a really easy transition because our inner circle changes all the time. And I literally find myself the the deep conversations I have with people are all people who Carlita Nelson was somebody that we were going back today with voice text. I'm very blessed to be surrounded by people that have the same values that I do. And we're all gonna have this things I look back on like when I said on stage in 2012, I said that. I said business and I use the word religion should not be combined. And you want to know where that came from? It was the fear of making anybody feel uncomfortable. Uncomfortable. You cannot lead and be liked by everyone. We're not ice cream. And so what I do believe is I think we can love like Jesus and not offend people. I do believe that, especially in a world today of social media. I have a very diverse team, I have a very big Canadian team. Some of them have different beliefs. There is room for everyone at my table. But Jesus Christ is my Lord, He is my savior, He is the way to heaven. It's not a wide road, it's a very narrow road. Those are my beliefs. I stand on them and period, the end. And I'm not afraid of who doesn't believe that you don't, you don't you have your own choice to have a relationship with Jesus. My job is to just share my love. So I think I got off you. I don't even remember what your question was.

Re-Engagement And Family Response

SPEAKER_00 44:47

But that's all right. Yeah, just the response of people around you. But I think that that's so powerful, Debbie, because it's sometimes people want us to separate those things. And I've had conversations where people say, Nikki, you talk too much about Jesus or there's too much faith. And it to somebody who doesn't have a relationship, a personal relationship with Jesus Christ, that would be like telling me, Nikki, when you show up to work, you can't talk about being a mom because you can't be a mom when you're at work because when you're at work, you're working. That's what my relationship with Jesus Christ is. I can't show up somewhere authentically as myself and just for that eight hours a day, not be a believer or a child of God. Like it's physically impossible for me to pull those two things apart. And so I just I love that again, Bob Goff, I know we talked about all those books together. He's he's my favorite. He's my next big dream guest for the podcast. So we'll keep praying on that. But you know, his whole book of everybody always, our job is to love everybody always the way that Jesus loved everybody always. Those that agreed with us, those that don't agree with us, those that do believe that Jesus is the only way and it's a narrow path, those that don't, when we love all of those people, again, not without staying true to what we believe and what our convictions are, that's when the real magic happens. And so, Debbie, it literally brings me to tears just to hear your story, to hear your obedience, to see how God has just really, I wrote it down as it's a story of redemption, obedience, and redefining success. I feel like if you could just take your whole story and your family and just to see the ripple effect, I hope, listeners, that you hear that too. The decisions that you make impact your children. Debbie and Scott's decision to love each other well, even when making decisions that maybe they know now weren't the best for their family. They loved each other well through that. They weren't evil co-parenters. They were respectful of each other. They continued to show up for their children together. They didn't make their divorce a bigger issue than being parents to their kids. I mean, just all these different ways where the ripple effect is unbelievable. Just this story of how God has his hand in every little thing and what we are doing every day is creating a story of our family legacy. It is creating a stability and a foundation for not just our spouse, but for our children, for our children's children in the new engagement post that you put on Facebook. The background was the music, and I know you very specifically chose it, but the words in that worship song say he's been faithful through generations. So why would he fail now? And I just feel like that song is such a beautiful redemption story of he's been faithful. He's been now faithful through Jorin Scott story, and he's going to be faithful for your children's story. And then as the grandchildren come, and I'm just, I'm so proud of you, Debbie. I am so honored to call you a friend. And in all of the things that you've added to your resume over your entire life, some really, really, really impressive things. The one that I just literally could do somersaults and jump up and down over is that Debbie Neil slash child of God and on a mission and with a passion to tell others the story. You said to me, there's no off-limit questions because the only reason we're here where we are today is because of Jesus. It's all because of Jesus and just that humility to recognize no matter what I can accomplish on my own, this is the most important thing. So as we sign off, what would you tell a listener that's struggling? Maybe they feel, you know, like you said, we had a religion, not a relationship with Jesus. To somebody that's wrestling that, well, I have faith. I occasionally send up a prayer. What would you say is the difference between that, a religion, and no, this is what relationship looks like? And it's probably the thing that you're missing.

Advice For Marriages On The Brink

SPEAKER_01 48:42

Well, the relationship was the big difference for me. It was the I I always prayed, but here's the difference. You know, Jesus came, paid the ultimate price and the sacrifice to not only forgive us for our sins, but so that he can, he can basically escape death, go to heaven, and leave us with the Holy Spirit. And so when we have the Holy Spirit inside of us, it's literally like having a force of Jesus inside that you can speak with, you can talk with, you can ask for guidance, you can all of these things. It's actually a gift, but you need to actually have that relationship in order to ignite and really build that relationship with the Holy Spirit. And for me, that it's so soothing. And if you don't know where to start, just start by closing your eyes and talking, literally. Because I think the average person is like, I used to pray like, thank you, God, for my health and for my family. And I do say those things, but like he doesn't want all that. He wants you to like, he knows everything that's going on in your life, but to actually just talk. Allow yourself to just you could start by thinking of it as talking to yourself, but eventually realize because when you talk and talk and then you just lay there and be still, that's when you're gonna get those answers. That's when the Holy Spirit is gonna talk to you. And so it for me, you'll you just don't feel alone. If you ever feel alone, we're living in a world today where people are feeling so much anxiety, they're feeling alone. When you you are covered in the Holy Spirit, but you have to open yourself up to that relationship. You absolutely have to end. I will say, it does not mean that you will not experience trouble and heartache. You will, but if you know that he's with you, if you know that Jesus is with you, it just makes everything so different. If I would go through today what I went through in 2020 and I bite my tongue, there would be a whole different level of energy because I'm like, okay, you've got me. Like, you've got me. And I eventually felt that way, but it was not at the beginning. It was after I my son had a cold 911 because I passed out cold from not eating or drinking and stressing myself out. So I would just say it took me a little bit to like commit to reading the word. Like for me, I found the author, Catherine Ponder. And I'm not saying it has to be her for you, but something that kind of gets you in that. Because when I first started reading the word, I it didn't really make sense to me. And I almost felt silly. I don't want to use the word stupid. I don't know if you've ever seen The Chosen, too. Like watching the chosen, it's like we binge watch the chosen. And then it even helped me like really understand the New Testament more. So you have to realize it's not going to be overnight. It's a journey. It's a journey for me. It's going to be a journey till I take my last breath. But the reason why it is number one in my life, it's the only thing that I can take into eternity. It's the only thing. My company can't come. Any earnings can't come. Nothing can come. Friends and family can come that walk on this journey with you, but it's the most important thing you'll ever do for eternity. And the life that we have here is so small. It's so small and it's so short.

SPEAKER_00 51:53

Yeah, Matthew 6, 20, right? Store up your treasures in heaven. For everything else on earth will stay here, but the treasures that are stored up in heaven are for eternity. So another great resource, friends, if you're listening, is the Bible app and the Bible recap. If the Bible feels overwhelming, like Debbie said, you start in the New Testament and there's a recap every day. Tara Lee Cobble will give you a little kind of overview that helps you understand it. Even for somebody that's been in a relationship with the Lord for 40 years, it's still hard for me to understand. And so just being able to accept that Jesus is Lord, believing that he died, rose again, and confessing that we cannot get anywhere on our own and that he is the answer is just a powerful, powerful place. So, Debbie, I'm so grateful for you. I'm so excited just to see what God does in your life and the life of your family. Just honored to call you a friend. Thank you so much for being willing to share the inside behind closed doors story with our listeners today.

SPEAKER_01 52:50

It was my pleasure. Thank you for having me.

SPEAKER_00 52:53

Absolutely. Well, friends, if this was an episode that encouraged you, I'm going to ask that you share it, whether that be on social media or texting to a friend or family member. Maybe you need to text it to your spouse. Maybe you guys are at a place in marriage where you feel like it's really there's no hope. And maybe even just both being able to listen to this podcast would be just an encouragement and a starting point to continue to lean into the marriage and not pull away. And so we're grateful for you here week after week, and we'll see you here again next week. So until then, friends, take care.