From Burnout to Breakthrough: The Realities of Entrepreneurship with Matt Anderson

In this episode of Your Mind Your Business, we sit down with Matt Anderson, former founder of Marketplace Amp, to uncover the untold stories behind building successful businesses. From navigating severe financial challenges to achieving a major business exit, Matt shares his 20+ years of experience in e-commerce and omnichannel marketing.

💡 Key Highlights:

• The Hustle Behind Success: Selling personal items to make payroll and overcoming tough times.
• Entrepreneurial Grit: Why resilience and adaptability are vital for any business owner.
• Digital Evolution: How Matt spotted opportunities in social media and Amazon early on.
• Mental Health Matters: The role of mindfulness and meditation in managing stress.
• Redefining Success: The importance of setting realistic goals and avoiding burnout.

Whether you’re a seasoned entrepreneur or dreaming of starting your own business, Matt’s journey is packed with actionable insights and powerful lessons.

🔔 Don’t miss out—subscribe for raw, real talk on entrepreneurship, mindset, and building a business that thrives.

#EntrepreneurshipPodcast #EcommerceInsights #MindfulLeadership #BusinessGrowthTips #OvercomingChallenges #StartupJourney #BusinessLessons

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Transcript

That was right down to the wire. We were selling light fittings in our house to pay the mortgage. We were, like, having to hustle the money to keep things ticking over. We've all done it in our lives, where you overstretch yourselves to get out to that next level of house or whatever. We we'd just done all of that and then all the hard times hit at the same time.

So it was like a perfect storm, really. And you sort of have to keep hustling, keep it's brutal. It's a street fight then, businesses. It is like you have to get off the floor and keep fighting to keep the business going, basically. And it's that takes real grit.

I don't think everyone can do that. Welcome to Your Mind Your Business, the podcast that dives into the real grit of entrepreneurship. I'm your host, Carina McLeod, entrepreneur and fitness fanatic. And today, we have a special guest, Matt Anderson from Optimize On. Welcome, Matt.

Hi. Thanks for having me. So I'm super excited to talk to you today because I know you sort of well, we've known each other for a couple of years now, but I know that there's much more of a story behind your entrepreneurial journey. So to start off, for our audience, it'd be great if you could share a little bit about who you are, about where you're at now, and then I'm gonna hit rewind and go back to the start of your journey. Yeah.

So I'm, Matt Anderson. I'm the chief strategy officer currently at Optimize On. So that's a full service Amazon Marketplace agency, and I've been in the world of digital for the last 20 20 odd years now. Oh, fantastic. So and that's it.

You've, so you're at Optimizer now, but let's hit rewind, and let's go back because go back. Where how far should we go back in terms of your journey? Well, I think, I'm not old, but I'm not young. But I've been I had a varied journey. Started off in in corporate, back in late nineties, really, in P&O Trans European, and that was sort of like supporting sales and, and, marketing support.

So big corporate, like Shell, ICI, you know, and that was quite a whizzy sort of awakening from a young Matt into the world of corporate life and, took that group traveling all around Europe, all around the UK, long, long hours. That was, got burnt out, got shingles, just on the back of the working really hard, but met lots of interesting people. Did a lot of interesting work, and then, went into, Dyson as well after that, more locally after I met my wife down in the Bristol area, and went out to the world of Malmsbury and stopped driving around the country so much. So it's, where I was in the corporate life. And then, we decided to before getting married, we decided to sort of travel round the world in Australia and places like that because we've been in corporate, and we've done the hamster wheel as it were.

And we thought, actually, we just need some time out just to refocus. And then, it was on a beach in Western Australia, and we were like, oh, perhaps we could set up our own company and do this marketing thing ourselves because she was in the world of PR, and she's good at, you know, getting our name out there. And, so we came back and handed in my notice at Dyson, and my family and all my friends thought I was nuts. It's like, you know, this is amazing. No.

Because, obviously, they're just going they're just taking off in the States and, you know, amazing company. And, just decided to sort of hand my notice in, with my wife and set my first company up back then. That was 2003. Oh, wow. So, 21 years ago to Christ.

But yeah. So, and that was quite interesting, with that with that. That was Montage Communications. That was that was focused on the world of PR on her background. And then I was just getting into sort of the digital side of things as well.

Online PR, inverted commas, and influencers, and all that sort of stuff. And that was just sort of in the back in the day when, you know, oh, we'll just send a press release to an influencer, and they'll cover it sort of thing. So that's sort of how it works. So we're just trying to find a way with it all, and that was quite interesting. We were doing, national lottery winner, PR at the time.

It's from Naomi's background, doing me like red top newspapers and, you know, the day the Daily Mail and The Mirror. Lovely publications. But being able to understand, like, how the way the world works on the media side of the media, but also alongside, how hard social media was starting to make it that we couldn't control the narrative in in media, which was really interesting. So one example that sort of really got me interested in social media back then was, there was a national lottery winner in Avonmouth, if I remember rightly, and, she'd won £1,000,000 on a scratch card. Now in her wisdom, she thought, I know.

I'm gonna tell everyone, friends and family, I'm gonna post on Facebook and let everyone know I won £1,000,000. It blew up. I got a telephone call going, Matt, get over there now. There's 15 reporters outside this woman's house. She's scared.

Peep you know, people going through her rubbish, people knocking on the back door, front door. Can I have a photo? Can I have this, that, and the other? You know? And you're just thinking, well, this social media thing's quite powerful because how all their media all the all the local community knew about this before we knew about it, so we couldn't control the media, which is what a lot any good PR say you can't control the media out light, but you can steer the agenda.

You can set the pace of the stories that are going out there. Whereas social media was just disrupting it. You couldn't you couldn't control the narrative as it were. So I thought that was really interesting that, actually, this thing called Facebook back then was like, oh, I've really got to get into this, You know? Yeah.

And that's what sort of took me in that journey, really, way back when. That's crazy because I mean, I didn't know that you started off when you were at Dyson. Yes. I remember going to Dyson head office at one point when I was with Amazon, funnily enough, trying to, get them to become a brand on Amazon, which is interesting. But They weren't having any of it.

No. No. Definitely not. That was one, one negotiation that didn't go to plan. Yep.

But, you know, really fascinating that you started off in the corporate world and then travelled. And then obviously, I'm guessing got a little bit of taste for freedom Yes. And being outside that corporate world. What was going through your mind when you, you know, you've made this decision to set up a business and you come back, you hand in your notice, everyone around you is probably, as you say, saying that you're crazy. Yes.

Where was your mind mindset then? Corporate's great. And don't get me wrong. I mean, my stepbrother and, sister, what you know, one was, like, ex Mars, and one is she's, like, the corporate controller for Microsoft. So, I mean, corporate is great, and it can be if you hit it right, and you've got the right culture and the right, personal development plan, it can be really enriching.

You can go really far. But, you know, sometimes when you're stuck in a corporate machine, and it's sort of like you're a small cog in a big machine, You can get lost, and it feels a bit soul destroying. And you can't you're not really master your own destiny, I guess. So that that was what I think that was what was stressing me out in corporate that is I couldn't I could see opportunities, and there's things I wanted to do, but had a million forms to fill out. And, you know, Dyson was great at the time way back when James Dyson used to come and sit on your desk on the 1st day, and you build a vacuum cleaner with him.

You know, that's a long time ago now. I'm sure it's not the same now, but, you know, so you could have, like, you could you could speak to the top dog as it were, and they'd sort it'd sort of recognize you. But being the big corporate machines, it's just like you're lost. And I think there's that feeling of being lost and being which is really counterintuitive to anyone in big corporate.

So it's like my family. We're like, you know, they would be lost in the world of being entrepreneur being entrepreneur, you know, what happens next, and when does the pay check come from, and where's the work, and how do you pay your mortgage, and all that sort of stuff versus the world of corporate. I've had lots of stories that people in corporate coming back off holiday and then just finding a brown envelope on their desk going, oh, you've been made redundant sort of thing, you know. You don't you don't really for me, I don't think you've got as much control in corporate, which is counterintuitive in when you're an entrepreneur, you're in control of the p and l, you're in control of the pace of work, or how much work you take on, or whatever. So to me, it was quite liberating and still is.

That is still is it's a real fire for me. I get, you know, sort of, oh, well, what where's the next challenge really? So that's what I think that's what really, you know, get gets us both working. And on my wife's side of the family, they're all entrepreneurs. And my mother-in-law is just, you know, getting her eighties, and she's like, oh, I just we've just we've come back, and we've set up an eBay business, and we're selling bits of mid century modern on eBay.

And I'm like, Jan, you're 80, for Christ's sake. But she's like, you know, it's that spark, I think, that really keeps me going, you know. And it's interesting that you say about, there's almost an element of false sense of security, right, in terms of that corporate world, as you sort of say, as in, well, I am secure, but you're secure in the hands of someone else, as you say. Yeah. And you've got that that control, and that's your fire.

Yeah. Yeah. Well, as you know, in the world of Amazon now, there's lots of peep Amazonians that I know that are worried because, you know, all of a sudden, there's a press release going out. Oh, by the way, we're making 10,000 people redundant. You're like, well, you know, even big Goliath like that, you know, how safe are you unless you're right at the top?

You can sort of steer those decisions. So I think, yeah, I think that's what sort of drove me into world of entrepreneurship. It's like the ideas and the opportunity and be able to sort of, you know, get out there and hustle, as it were, which is great. But then just having some being a master of your own destiny, really, is what drew me to being an entrepreneur. And I guess I mean, that's the great thing about being an entrepreneur.

Like, you are the master of your own destiny, but it also comes with some challenges. Right? And that's cut part of, like, the reason for this podcast is for those to not only hear that and go, oh, okay. I wanna be the master of my own destiny. I'll go and set this up.

It's gonna be really easy. Is it you've gotta have that real grit and persistence to get there. So so you you mentioned about, like, you saw the kind of almost potential of Facebook, like, from a social. What then went through your mind to then because you're really that you're I still see you as that digital expert. Where where did that journey take you and what where were you?

What were those challenges that you were facing? I was well, the challenges were okay. Yeah. Facebook. That's really good.

There's a really big opportunity here. It's blowing up. And then going pitching that to marketing directors, and they're going, well, no. That's just for kids. Why should we get involved with this?

You know, this is big homeware brands and big, you know, lifestyle companies and products. Do not like, the Dysons of this world should be all over social media and driving it. But they were just like, you know, not it's not really for us. You know, we're in newspapers and TV ads, and that's it, really. And so having to sort of get pitching and being turned down lots at that time.

And that's one of the things that if you're getting into something really early, like the word AI, for example, now is that you there's you're gonna get lots of people being really sceptical about your pitch and, like, lots of knockbacks and lots of not for me or no or tiny bud or we'll give you a small budget and see how it goes sort of thing versus actually the real sort of meaty stuff. So I think it's that, you know, old school sort of wearing out some shoe leather and knocking on doors and getting turned down lots, and then understanding the value proposition that you have to pitch to people to get people to go, ah, light bulb moment or, you know, gets a win like, well, what isn't it not to like really? I think for me in the world of, like, online PR was, like, the influences and the Guido Forks of this world in the world of politics could be used to drive the news agenda, drive even more coverage online. You can, through Newswire, actually drive a lot of buzz around the launch. And that was like, you know, the penny drop moment for clients to go actually, well, you know, a blogger is just as important as a red top because the bloggers tend to break the news and the red top's followed.

And, oh, actually, we can drive a news agenda, or we can steer it, or so that was, like, the win moment of going, oh, right. K. Because in the world of PR, it's all it used to be all about these sort of big portfolios that you could open up and go, oh, look at all this coverage you've got for. The National Lottery, and aren't we amazing sort of thing. And that's what back way back then, what everyone was really focused on is, like, where the column inches.

But actually showing that to you, you know, a blogger can drive a lot of column inches or even front page news. If it's broken right and it's that win moment, I think that that that would start to sort of really drop in in this in this in the sales pitch, really. I love that you say the win moment. Like, how long did it take you to get there? And, like, was there ever a moment where, you know, you're getting turned down?

People aren't seeing your vision Yeah. That you just thought, right, sack it all in, go and get a job, or, you know, that point where you're just gonna give up. Yeah. I think when we had first sort of launched our company, I think our logo was, designed by, us and our Welsh lodger at the time. Bless him.

He worked for the MOD. So we were just, like, hustling, and we had no money whatsoever. And he's sort of sitting there staring at the screen going, you know, what am I doing? What am I doing? And, you know, when's the money gonna come in, and how are we gonna pay the bills, and that sort of stuff.

And I think it's that sort of, you know, keep on pitching, keep on pitching. And it would you know, montage went well, and we were doing stuff with, some, like, the big sort of London agencies and, like, regional work for, like, B&Q and Starbucks and things like that. We've got a nice little niche of, like, Southwest PR as it were. And that was starting to get but it was sort of going up and down, up and down. I seem to remember going into 2,008, and, I had I had I think it was about 5 phone calls in a week from clients going, we're cutting the budgets.

There's no more money. You know, through the bankers crash, there's a big credit crunch, or clients going, sorry, we can't pay you this week. It was like a real sort of crunch of, like, you know, when we all go ups and downs, and we just discussed some ups and downs before we came on the pod. That, you know, you win some, you lose some, and there's a general rhythm in business, isn't they? But then it was like it was brutal.

It was like cool, cool, cool. No budget. No my and I was like, literally sitting there. I just moved house in Bristol in a nice area, which is like Clifton. It's a bit like the Chelsea of Bristol over there.

And taking on this huge mortgage literally just within 6 months of my second my second child. My daughter is being born and, you know, so there's all these, like, cost pressures. And you're just thinking, you know, what do we do? What do we do? And, so, basically, I just got into a rhythm of really honing take taking that opportunity again.

Actually, it's like an inflection point, really, the 2,008 was. It's like the old the old school media in ways were dying out with the banking, really, at that time. But there's there was still the growth was still in in digital because people saw that as cheaper and oh, actually, well, those huge advertising budgets we're putting into the board sheets, we'll put into digital because the money will go further. And I was sort of pitching that, and it sort of clicked, clicked, clicked.

And I won my first sort of big, piece of sort of social work with a company called Brabantia doing, like, Pan European social media, and that and influencer work as well. And that was like a bit like the big contract, which sort of pulled the company through that, sticky point, really. But that was right down to the wire. We were like we were selling light fittings in our house to pay the mortgage. It was like we were like having to hustle the money to to keep things ticking over.

Because, you know you know, we've all done it in our lives where you overstretch yourselves to get out to that next level of house or whatever. We Yep. We'd just done all of that, and then all the hard times hit at the same time. So it was like a perfect storm, really. And you sort of have to keep hustling, keep it's brutal.

It's a street fight then, Businesses, it is like you have to get off the floor and keep fighting to keep the business going, basically. And it's that takes real grit. I don't think everyone can do that. But A 100%. And hats off that you did because I think that's it.

Right? Is that's the bit that people don't hear. They're like, oh, okay. Well, oh, that all died out, sort of traditional media. So then you were able to just pitch, like, for social and then that worked out.

But Yeah. They don't understand that you are literally, as you say, sort of picking yourself up Yeah. To be able to. And then I guess that's finding that fight or there's that point where you're just like, right. I'm done.

Yeah. But you've fought through it. Yes. I think there's that. And, there's a few times, obviously, since, like, COVID and the Ukraine war and things like this.

Or just COVID was for every entrepreneur listening to the pod is like, you know, dark days, no doubt. But that was interesting. But in the world of Amazon, it turned out to be a a real boom. But. When it first hit, no one knew what all clients are like.

Well, we just need to see what's going on. We don't really know what it means. There was a lot of dancing around for a few months, and then the world of Amazon took off. But still, that was a scary time. But Yeah.

Yeah. Not only just for staff, but for clients as well. Just it felt like I was counselling everyone really, I think, through it, which is a interesting time. It's the it's the unknown, right, of not knowing. And so, you know, you've got to that point where you've decided to then just, like, you get your first client on board, but you had that dark moment.

Would you change that? Like, would you say that that is almost framed or one of those experiences that was pivotal for you? Yeah. I think, it was it was definitely one of those experiences and was what I've you know, my current role at the moment, you know, chief strategy officer. What does that mean?

An ideas guide, basically. Is what I'm good at. And pivoting strategies to take advantage of opportunities have always been a skill of mine, and I think that's something that really sort of came out of it and going up. So when you go through that sort of process, you go, oh, I can I can do this? I can so then to be on the front do it on the front foot where you can see opportunities like that rather than that.

Back then, I was boxed into a corner, and I had to change because of the financial situation. I had no choice. I had to do it, but I didn't do it before because I didn't have the confidence to do it. Whereas I should have pivoted to gone with social, and the world of digital and what have you. And that so when AMP came along sort of, was it 5 years ago now?

So marketplace AMP, my last business I exited before Optimize on. But that was I was running alongside the sort of digital and content marketing SEO stuff that we were doing. I got pulled into the world of Amazon by Brabantio. I mentioned, they're like, oh, we've got 1200 SKUs on this thing called Amazon, but you guys are good at digital content. Here you go.

You you look at this. Well, we'll deal with the retailers and my view. Wasn't quite like that, but, you know, that sort of thing. But, and that that we were really good at it from, Amazon SEO point of view, and pay per click. We were because all the social work we did, managed to apply ourselves to it, and that took off the 1st campaign, generated, like, quarter of £1,000,000 in laundry product sales or whatever.

And that gained some real momentum. So we had that on the website, but we were getting starting to get more and more inquiries through Amazon, Amazon this, Amazon that. Can you do this? Can you do that? And I even got approached by a company in the States called Sphero, who do BB 8 droids, the Star Wars droid.

Oh, yeah. And that app enabled things. And I'm, like, thinking, for Christ, if a if a company from sort of Colorado gets in touch with us in in the UK and in Bristol, then well, and what and then we moved out to Cambridge at the time, Then there's gotta be something in this. And I was like, actually, no. I've got a I had the confidence to go.

Actually, no. Let's pivot and just go straight after the money and go after the Amazon and the marketplace piece. And that's when we did that, and that's when marketplace just sort of marketplace amateurs took off, really. Yeah. Do you think that confidence came from just experience or because you were thrown in where you had no choice and you had to fight through?

Experience. But I think, what I'd done before when I was younger, and we all were like this, it's like you you're more headstrong, and you're like, I know I know the right way. I wanna do this. I've done you know, it's the this is I've got teenage young, 20 something kids. So you see it with them.

It's like, I'm not listening to you, mum and dad. Whereas, I was a bit older, and I started to create networks. So in Digital East Anglia, we're set up for, like, collaboration with, other businesses. And I always start to sort of collaborate more and talk to people like yourself. You know?

It's always good to have those coffee moments again as well. How's the industry going? What about what challenge are you having? And sort of staff or whatever skills and sort of work it out as a bit of a support network. So I started to build, like, mentors around myself, like, a non executive director and a couple of other sort of wizard people to sort of lean on it.

So I wanted to go in that direction, but then you could sort of bounce the ideas off going, like, guys, I'm gonna do something nuts. Montage stuff that. Let's go all out on it. And they were like, yeah. Do it.

This is where the money is. Go for it. So, yeah, it's supporting yourself with that network. It's important, I think. Yeah.

And understanding that you're not always right. It's hard work, business sometimes, so you need you need that support network. I love what you say. You're just figuring out that you're not always right because I think that's it. Right?

And that's what we see on social media today Is it it's almost like there's the success stories from individuals that are like, well, this is all you need to do and make it out like you can do these amazing things on your own and, like, it happens first time around. But, I mean, how do you sort of shut down those noises that are going on in social and just make sure that it doesn't sort of kind of influence where you're at? Yeah. Social's a love hate relationship for me, really. I was totally immersed in it for about 10 years.

Just remember even work on my black trying to tweet on my BlackBerry through sort of TechCrunch events and things. Yeah. And just I'm totally I was on doing, like, twist of twist of events on Twitter and stuff back in 2007. And really, like, got very, very addicted to social media to the point of, like, you can't put the phone down, can't, you know, your thumbs are sore from, tweeting or whatever. And I thought, well, actually, you know, is it is it really turning the dial?

Is it really getting the work in? Is it no? So I think, you know, I think it's actually I've got more of a passive relationship with social now. Most people who follow me on LinkedIn do know that I post. But I'm more of a, I guess, a facilitator and a networker really than a, you know, huge amount of content now.

So it's just finding that balance really, because you can get stuck in these bubbles on in social where you just sort of everyone's going, you know, sort of saying the same thing, and it's not really much sort of discourse. I don't what I don't like about LinkedIn in particular is at the moment you see it's, like, lots of AI bots just popping up again. I I've come off Twitter completely because of, you know, Elon Musk and or ever since Brexit, I just had to sort of step out of it. I thought this is just too negative. It's just like, but it has a lot, you know, podcasting, I guess, form of social media as well, has a lot of value as well, just for, like, the relationships and the networking and the and the knowledge as well.

So I think I consume a lot of podcasts now, YouTube stuff. So I'm sort of very much focused. But the world of Instagram and influencers and old crypto millionaires and FBA, you know, millionaires. If I see another guy in a Lamborghini on Instagram going, hey, you can you can make a passive income on Amazon.

I just wanna because I know we know how hard it is. Yeah. In the back, you just wanna scream at them going, it's not that easy. I know. I know.

And then you read the comments that are added to it, and you just see, oh my goodness. These people are engaged with this content. Why? Yes. Yeah.

Well, where's the real value, really? But, yeah, good content takes a lot of time and a lot of investment. And I think it's so less is more rather than just keep on pushing stuff out. I think that's where it where it's at.

And I love the way that you think about, well, how much are you gonna sort of gain through that by being out there all the time on social? Because as you say, is it is it really gonna move the needle? Or actually what you've said is it's all about the connections and the networking part. Yes. It's probably gonna be more successful, like you said, about creating communities around you Yes.

Where you could you get more out of it. Yeah. No. I think it's, it is funny. But, like, the going back to the festival thing, and I'm really into rugby and managed to get, Gareth Chilcott.

He's an old rugby player, real character in in Bristol. He's got a bar in, near the main train station, and we we he said, yeah. Come and, you know, for free. Come and use it for this Twitter event. But I still got his number on, I always joke with Gareth, our head of sales, because I always end up calling Gareth Chillcop for some reason.

But, you know, you have some really good, some good contacts off the back of it. I think that's where it's the the, the time off social media is more valuable than on it. So if it means you can meet people or figure out a network, that's great. Use that, and then spend the time to sort of develop it off social media.

Is just as important. That's usually, that's hugely valuable, that advice, because I think that's it. Is it's actually making true connections rather than, like, it looks like a connection because you're posting, you see people posting for the sake of almost post. Yeah. Great post because they wanna be seen on that post and everything.

But I guess talking with others and building a community is one sort of strategy, I guess, that that helps you. How else do you manage to, I guess, switch off from that mind that's constantly going? Yeah. Or does it do you just is your mind constantly going? I'm saying that assuming it, but might not be the case.

I am my mind constantly goes, I'm a worry. I just I tend to overthink things, I think, sometimes. So I think, that's why social isn't otherwise, I took a step back from, like, Twitter. It's like I just free your head up from the noise, really. So, over the last 6, 7 years, really, I've practiced mindfulness.

I meditate this morning before I came to here, you know, just to try and slow the slow your mind down and just be in the moment. Because social and I see it with my kids and my daughter, especially. I worry about, you know, kids. It's like, are you in in the moment? Are you living it now?

Or are you scrolling through TikTok and looking at someone on the other side of the planet when you're here with your family? You know, it's quite scary. So try not to get lost in it. It's important. Meditate, try and do more fitness now, just try and keep on top of things really.

And, yeah, that's what I do. I love that you talk about mindfulness and meditating. Yeah. I, I'd love to go into that a bit with the meditation part. Yeah.

Is that something that you were able to adopt quite easily, or has it taken time to be able to do that and allow time in your day to do that? I think, it's my addiction to digital. I've there was a cup rollback, couple of things. It's like we in in AMP very, early on, and I think it was just coming into the world of, COVID. We had values about the work hard, have fun, but make a difference rather than make history.

It's like we wanna make a difference within the team. So we invested in, Tony Kimber. He, he was part of, Focus 12. Now Focus 12 is like a support community for addicts and, heroin addicts and, you know, alcoholics and some very famous ones. So it's like there's Russell Brand, there's Joseph Pasquale, there's Davina McCall, and Boy George.

They've all been helped by his organization. Unfortunately, it's been mothballed because of funding due to without getting too political, it was mothballed. But it's an amazing organisation, and they have 12 steps. And one of the things is actually understanding being within the moment and actually meditation and being sort of focused on your mind and mindfulness is really important to come out of alcohol addiction and, you know, drug addiction in my view. But, essentially, that's something that he was, a practitioner in meditation.

And so he did like, we got him in for the team on Zoom at the time to do these meditations within the team. So we said to the team, okay. It's optional. It's not mandatory. But on this time in the in the week, we can have, like, an hour with Tony, and he'll do a guided meditation with everybody.

Can have your cameras on or your cameras off, but we can all sit at home and meditate. So we did that. So there's a group it's funny, isn't it? You you've got, like, there's 2 types of people in office. 1 types of people with the headphones on, head heads down, and 1 type of people with headphones off talking to others.

And the people that we're talking to it, the more gregarious people really benefited from the mindfulness, whereas some people it just wasn't for them. But I think that's something we rolled out with Tony. It's our mentor. And then for myself, it's like, Headspace and Calm apps and things like that.

Just to when your mind's pinging all over the place, you've got someone just telling you to you can have something you can follow. So I do that. Try to do that on a daily basis, really. And Tony sort of from, you know, time and time again, he's so he he's a bit of a guru as it were.

And then, Andy, Reese, who I met, through that sort of network, and, that he's a he's a martial arts and a qigong, Tai Chi guy, basically. He did a lot of like body combat stuff, which he was training some special forces and stuff beforehand. So it's like it's brutal to say sort of spiritual stuff. So doing things like the Qigong, which is a bit like, for those people who don't know, is a bit like, Chinese yoga essentially with a bit of Tai Chi influence. And that's doing movements with your body, but in a in a breathing and meditative state as well.

And that's kind of a good thing to do. So did that come out of COVID. And, and that's another thing that sort of I do to sort of focus the mind, really. And that help that really helps because, you know, I've by the nature of the business and, you know, when you're a successful entrepreneur, you're pitching and you're getting investment and you're losing clients and you're keeping clients happy and all this sort of stress can really, really build up. And it's important.

You've got to manage it, especially when I'm not young, but I'm not old. But especially as you're getting to a certain age where you realize that, you know, it was one of my friends' husbands at the school. Basically, he just had a heart attack recently. He's fine. But you just think, Christ, you know.

You've gotta manage this level of stress. You can't just keep on going on a 1000000 miles an hour. So you so it's important, this sort of stuff, and I think people need to talk about it more as well. Yeah.

Definitely. And you've got a huge amount of awareness to be able to identify that. And the fact that you I absolutely love what you've just, said about bringing someone in for your team to benefit as well from that mindfulness and meditation. Yeah. I'm not mentally writing notes down because that's definitely something that, you know, it's not just you benefiting from.

You've seen the benefits, how that would help you, your wider team. Yep. Yeah. Definitely. And it's not just like the oldies that have got a lot on the shoulders like us, I guess.

It's the young the younger generation. I see it as, like, my daughter are just you know, they're worried about the environment. How am I gonna get a house? Oh my god. Everything's so expensive.

There's a lot of stress for, like, younger people, and I think mental is health is as important as physical, you know. Yes. I've had an interesting life and quite a brutal one at times. Who hasn't? You dig into everyone's lives and backstory, you know.

We've all had hardships, but I think, certainly, something that, you know, I've got family over in the States, so it's something that the Americans are really good at is they're quite open about mental health. Whereas in the Brits, it's all stiff upper lip and, you know, what do you mean? You're upset? Go on. Get back to work, boy, sort of thing.

Is, definitely the mentality that, you know, when I was working for P and O, that that is a brutal comp you know, they a lot of it's ex navy, you know, real macho culture. That it is not and you see still see that in business in the in in the UK. That is that isn't healthy, you know. That it's not it's not on. You've gotta be able to balance people.

You know, people are human. And, so many of our businesses are people businesses, and you've gotta look after your best asset, which is your people end of the day. Because they either get burnt out or they'll leave. So, you know, you really need to look after them.

Yeah. Definitely. And that's like we say, we're talking about social media is more talking about success stories, but actually not enough about the reality of, okay, if you wanna be successful or well, you can measure success in many different ways, but if you wanna get to a certain destination, you always need to remember that part that you're talking about in terms of that mindfulness and just making sure that you are looking after your health Yeah. And not because, actually, when sometimes people see, oh, I can do x, that's the part that people stretch themselves. So Yeah.

Almost too much. Yeah. And I think that's, a a realisation. When I'm an I'm, you know, I'm a parent as well, so it probably comes easier to parents that, okay. Well, you know, if I keel over or if I end up in hospital for a few months, what happens?

You know? So health is wealth, really. So as an entrepreneur, you've gotta look after yourself, because that body of yours is obviously not really not only just important from a spiritual and health point of view, but from a wealth point of view, that's your money making tool. And if you're if you're ill, that's it.

You know, what you might have health insurance if you're fortunate enough to have it. But, you know, who does? You know, so you've got to look after yourself. Yeah. Yeah.

So I think that's what you see for a lot of successful entrepreneurs is having that balance of, mindfulness, looking after themselves. Not only because it's good for you, but it actually keeps you fresh. You know, we've all been there when and entrepreneurs where you just, like, when we were just saying just, you know, kind of the run up to Christmas, you sort you can feel it, like, in in my mind sort of like, I've had enough now. When's Christmas coming? You know, we've all gone through Black Friday, Cyber Monday in the world of Ecom.

And it's been manic. And you just listen to your body and go, and actually, I need I will be I will be better. And that's sort of like one of my mentors. And Andy was Andy Reese, the martial arts guy, is, like, saying, take time out to sharpen the saw because you always go blunt, and you can you'll keep on sawing away, and you'll get nowhere.

So just taking time out to sharpen the saw. And then you can be much more effective, rather than this. And blokes, I think, are worse at it. It is that machoness of, like, I'm gonna work how many hours did you work today? What was 16 hours, 18 hours?

You know? I mean, I had boss in corporate land. You know, I'd leave. If I'd left before 9 o'clock, he'd be like this. You know?

What time do you call this? Crazy, isn't it? You know, I'm like, well, I've sort of got a life, mate. I need to have a break. Yeah.

I've been here since 7 in the morning. But You say something interesting. It's listen to your body Yeah. Which is which is so powerful. And as we said, when we, before we started the podcast, we were talking about that and, you know, where you're feeling that run down.

And I think that's that moment where not everyone has almost got to that point where they can listen Yeah. Or can't hear it, if that makes sense. Yes. Yeah. I think yeah.

And then, your body starts giving you warning signs, you know, where you just like waking up at 3 in the morning, 4 in the morning consistently every day, and that's because your mind's, like, whizzing around. Yep. And, yeah, sort of I was talking to an entrepreneur, CEO of a large food company, and he was, like, saying that he said, you know business isn't going well, and you start waking up at 4 in the morning every day. And I'm like, yeah. I've been there.

I've done that. You know? So actually, well, you've gotta tell yourself, right, something's gotta change. When your body starts giving you these little warning signs.

Yeah. Palpitations, you know. Yeah. I've been there. Done that.

Where you're just like, you're so stressed. And you're just like, actually, my heart's like pounding. And I'm like, this isn't good. You know, you need to chill out really. So, yeah, just listen to your body more.

And that's something that comes with age, I think, really. And I think just talking about saying that that that comes with age. If you were to give yourself some advice, your younger self some advice, after all these years of what you've learned, what would that advice be? I think well, it's the advice my wife gives me is, like, stop being so hard on yourself, basically. It's a basic I'll get if I was gonna talk to my younger self.

Because that sort of pressure, it it's in it's good to have that drive, and it's good to give yourself that pressure going right. I wanna hit that target. I wanna do this. I'm gonna open up there. I wanna be in Europe next next year, whatever.

That's all good. It's when you start getting on top of yourself and beating yourself up. That's not good. Just no. Don't do that.

And I I've been there, you know, done that. And it's just you sort of start sparring down and making yourself ill, really. So you just need to sort of actually take that take time out, set yourself realistic goals that are achievable, you know. People in in the world of entrepreneurship, the influencers. Oh, yeah.

We can make 40,000,000 next year from nothing this year. And you're like, no. It's not gonna happen. But, you know, what is realistic? What money do you need?

And can you live on? And focus on realistic goals, rather than going I want to be the next Alan Sugar, and I want to be the next Elon Musk or Jeff Bezos. I mean, bear in mind the last 2 were born into a considerable amount of money, so it's kind of easier for them than everyone else. So don't pin yourself against these sort of unrealistic idols, really. It's just like what is realistic and stick to it.

And I'm sure my wife listening to this podcast will go again. Remind me of what I've just said, but yeah. Afterwards, but yeah. That's something that, I need to sort of focus on. Yeah.

Definitely. And I like that part about being realistic. And do you think, you know, and not being hard on yourself. Do you think that when because I've had quite a few conversations about with different, business owners and they sort of question the word entrepreneur Yeah. Almost because it's almost like whether you're an entrepreneur is measured by success.

But then success is almost looked at when you look at large, or not large, but, you know, Jeff Bezos is an example of Yeah. Oh, that's an entrepreneur. I'm nowhere near as successful as them. Yeah. What is what does success look like?

So do you think by being more realistic in what your goals are helps you to feel more successful as an individual? Yeah. I mean, what is success? What do you want, and what do you need? As I always say to kids, it's like, you know, just figure out what you need and focus on that.

My dad's an entrepreneur. He's over in the States. He's growing businesses. Lost he went bankrupt. Running another business now.

He's in his seventies. He he's still working. Bless him. Whether he gets right or wrong. So up to the listeners to decide.

But anyway, but he's, you know, he goes he spends a month in California. Doesn't work, but the rest of the year does work. And then, you know, and then can travel around, and have a varied lifestyle, and he's not got the pressure on himself. So, you know, I'd say that he's got, like, no. He's successful, because.

He's got a lifestyle business that funds what he wants to do and needs his time. And he still keeps busy and meets interesting people. And, you know, I've gone and done this. I flew over to Chicago and, you know, dealing with big businesses and stuff like that. I mean, he's in the seventies, but he's still going.

And he's happy now, I think. Whereas before, you could see he was really sort of driving himself into a whole with working with big corporates and JP Morgans of this world. And. And the outside the person on social will probably look at him and go, oh, look how successful he is. You know?

Oh, look at he's working for these big businesses. Oh, he's doing really well. But, you know, he he sort of drove himself into a wall and went bust. And it's there's so many times that, you know, part of what I do is we we're looking at other agencies and other businesses. And the amount of times you think, oh, they're doing really well.

And then you look at the books, and you talk to them or how what they're doing. You're just going, well, actually, how much is it? It's all smoke and mirrors. A lot of business. There's a lot of there's a lot of chat, not much to do.

Yeah. But so don't get drawn into the hype, really. It's actually thinking, you know, what do I need to do? What's realistic? And focus on it.

A 100%. I think that's great advice as well for our listeners today. And you've been an absolutely awesome guest today. I've loved hearing your story. And, you know, as you're talking about mindfulness, I feel like I'm sinking slightly into the seat because I'm like, right.

I've had quite a few sleepless nights. I'm waking up at 3 o'clock in the morning. Yes. I'm feeling burnt out. I looked in the mirror and thought, oh my goodness.

I've just aged 5 years, you know? And, you know, just sitting here with you today, I'm like, I've made so many mental notes of things because I think sometimes you can forget those things Yeah. And you lose sight. Yeah. So I wanna say thank you for sharing your story.

Also, from a personal note, you've just given me a bit of a nudge as well today. Oh, good. Well, I'd say I'm no guru. I made all the mistakes. So it's not, you know, on your own really.

But, yeah. Hopefully, it helps some entrepreneurs listening and, you know, avoid the mistakes I've made. Well, thanks once again, and thank you everybody for listening today. Thanks, guys. Love this episode?

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