From Dream to Reality: How Paul Phillips Built His Thriving Hair Salon | The Hustle Behind Success

In this episode host Carina McLeod interviews entrepreneur Paul Phillips, founder of Chopp, a thriving hair salon in Essex and haircare brand, about his incredible journey from starting at a young age to building a standout business in the competitive hair and beauty industry.

Paul opens up about the real grit behind growing Chopp, navigating financial pressures, managing personal tragedy, and staying true to his vision through every challenge — including the impact of COVID, team leadership, and business expansion.

🎧 Topics covered:

➡️ Building a business from scratch with limited resources
➡️ How travel, hustle, and resilience shaped his entrepreneurial mindset
➡️ Managing financial stress and mental health as a business owner
➡️ Balancing leadership, team growth, and brand integrity
➡️ Turning passion projects like Chopp Haircare into powerful revenue streams
➡️ Staying focused on your own path without getting distracted by competition

If you're an entrepreneur, business owner, or someone striving to build something bigger, this episode is full of inspiration, hard truths, and practical lessons.

🔔 Don’t forget to like, subscribe, and hit the notification bell to stay updated with more episodes of Your Mind Your Business!

For more details on Chopp:
https://chopphair.com/

#EntrepreneurJourney #SmallBusinessUK #HairSalonOwner #MindsetMatters #YourMindYourBusinessPodcast #BusinessGrowth #EntrepreneurshipGrit

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Transcript

Welcome to Your Mind Your Business, the podcast that dives into the real grit of entrepreneurship. I'm your host, Carina McLeod, entrepreneur and fitness fanatic. And today we have a special guest, Paul Phillips from Chopp. Welcome, Paul.

Hello. That was a great intro. Thank you. It's, obviously been quite rehearsed as well. But today so I'm excited to talk to you because I kind of know you from where you're at now.

Yep. As in, I see you as somebody that has a very successful hair salon in in South End, but I guess before we start going on about your journey, I'll let you have that opportunity to share with the audience a bit about who Paul Phillips is now, and then I'm gonna hit rewind. Okay. So I mean, right now in 2025, I am a business owner. I have a hair salon.

I have some other businesses that run alongside my hair salon. A year and a half ago, I launched Chopp Hair Care, so I have a product range that runs alongside the business. And I also have a couple of investment properties that I kind of, I'm looking to grow as well. So but my main focus and my passion, my baby, is my hair salon. And it's quite an interesting time because we're at a real crossroads at the moment where we've kind of organically grown to a point where we're at full capacity.

One of my passions is nurturing young talent into future talent and stylists that are gonna grow and develop within Chopp. And we're kind of in a beautiful building that ideally we need more space. So we're kind of I say we a lot, but I'm at a place where I'm looking to expand and look at a second site. And it's just, yeah, quite interesting times, like, going into territory that I'm unfamiliar with. And, you know, I started Chopp when I was 24.

I'm 38 now. And, there's been well, I'm sure we're gonna get into it and talk about it, but there's been so much learning on the job and so many incredible things that have happened, various chapters. And if I stay as I am forevermore, I'm 38, I feel like I've got so much more to give. And I don't ever wanna look back and be like, oh, what if? I wish I had of.

That's not me. So, yeah, interesting times. But Chopp is, when I first set out, I had a mission statement, and I feel like when I look around the salon today, everything that I wanted to achieve, we are currently achieving, and that was to achieve London standard hairdressing at an affordable price in Essex, in an environment that was non intimidating and welcoming to everyone and very diverse. So sustainability and being diverse were key factors that I wanted to implement early doors. And I just feel like, I look around the salon day to day and all of those boxes are being ticked.

So, yeah, it makes me feel good. That's amazing. And congratulations, because that isn't always the case, you know? It's not so easy, which hence, we're gonna sort of go into those moments where, I guess, you've gone through those highs, but also those lows. For sure.

But the fact that you've had your mission and able to sit back and go, do you know what? I'm able to tick those boxes, and now what's next? I think it's, like, a great accomplishment, but also really an exciting place to be. Yeah. For sure.

I feel like there's I don't maybe I put this pressure on myself, but at the moment, I feel like I it's my duty, and I have to deliver for my team. I wanna test myself as well, but I've got people who work for me that are, in my mind, think they're looking at me as if to say, what is the next step? You know, where can we develop and grow with you? And, I now kind of when we were talking before we started filming that, you know, late at night, we have the ideas and our minds popping and we're trying to get to sleep. But at the moment, my mind is popping because of all those reasons.

And it's like, I wanna deliver for my team. I wanna open up doors and opportunities. I want people to stick around long term and that's only gonna happen if they feel like they're part of something exciting. So I'm just like, I'm a big believer in when the timing's right opportunities present themselves and it's then down to you as to whether or not you act on it. And at the moment I think I'm not quite ready yet and that therefore the opportunity isn't presenting itself, but, it does not stop me from looking day in day out at the moment.

At the moment, I feel like there's a lot of process of elimination going on. So ideas that I might've had, I'm exploring and finding out that a property might be, you know, have a, a landlord in place and, you know, they own a monopoly of kind of shops in that area, and then you're governed to and dictated to by, like, a landlord that could increase rent at any point. The property that I'm in at the moment is a really lovely situation. Been there proud to say thirteen years and it's owned by a charity. So it's a non-profit making organization.

So the money I pay in rent goes to the homeless and to have some really good causes. And, it's yeah. It's just a nice setup. So I'm not in a position where I have got, like, a greedy landlord wanting to sort of hike my rent up, this, that, and the other. So my next move, ideally, there's certain USPs that Chopp has, and I kind of it's not I think even our audience, our clients, I want them to when they see the next chapter unfold, I want them to be like, of course, that's what Chopp's up to.

Not just like any old, oh, there's an empty shop. Let's just take over that. It's got there's I've got a formula that works very well, and I want to there's certain things that allow that formula to work well, and I need to find that in another place. You know? Yeah.

Yeah. Definitely. And, I'm guessing though I'm keen to sort of dive into that a little bit more, but, I'm I'd like to go a few steps back. Right? Because you've ticked the boxes and you're feeling like you're ready to make that move, but the move isn't as you say, the opportunity hasn't yet come, which I love the fact that, you know, you're almost preparing yourself for when it when it does.

You go to the start. You're 24. Yep. Did you ever think that you were gonna set up your own business and be where you are now? I mean, jeez, 24.

When I think back, I was clueless, to be fair. But I always had the vision. So I kind of I never, for one minute, didn't think I would be where I am now, but I didn't, at that time, have a clue how I was gonna get there. And, yeah, I mean, like, when depending on how far you wanna go back, but I mean, when I actually think back to, like, when I was at school and there's certain things I used to get up to at school to make ends meet, you know, I've never really had a fallback. So I have got to make it work.

Like, my role within my family, my a lot of my family's go to person. Sometimes I wish I had my guy, but that's never been the case. So I have to make it happen. And I've always had this ability to I like, you know, like you mentioned, you love your fitness. I've always loved my fitness.

I like sports. I've got an eye for quality. I love classic cars, and I've always sort of seemed to have had this ability to research, purchase, restore, sell, make some money off the back of that. And I used to do it at school. I used to do it, you know, build trials bikes, out of parts, and then turn them into something that looked nice that some people thought, I wanna buy that.

And then, and then I sort of one of my first cars was a Volkswagen Beetle. Bought it for £250. You could literally see the road as you were driving along. It was holes in it and all sorts, and I think I sold that for £700 and then that allowed me to get my I had five Beatles that then led me on to get my camper van, which I imported from The States back when, like, it was, like, 2 and a half dollars to the pound. And that's still the camper van I have today, like, fifteen years later.

And I just kind of, because I feel like I've had to hustle, I've had to make it happen, I have to I'm a risk taker, but I feel like there is a bit it's a bit calculated, you know. I don't I'm not I try and I mean, don't get me wrong. This isn't always the case, but I try not to be, like, super impulsive and just not worry about the aftermath because I've never been in a position where I don't have to worry about the aftermath, you know. So yeah, I mean, does that sort of, like, say, give you any information that you asked us to? Yeah.

No. Definitely. So you've obviously got that kind of entrepreneurial spirit with inside you that you're always sort of looking at opportunities and what you can do next and so forth. So, you know, you've got that in you, and and I guess you've got a little bit of fire in your belly there. Oh, yeah.

So what made you then go were you, a hairdresser before? What made you then go into the hair salon business? Okay. So when I think it was all always written in the stars because when I was at school, I've I think from, like, maybe year nine onwards, I remember, like, once a month on a Wednesday, I don't know why I remember it being a Wednesday, but it always seemed to be a Wednesday. I'd have, like, like some mates come over.

My mum had a set of clippers. My mum would always cut my hair and I was, you know, quite into the way I looked, back then as I still try to be now, but it sort of feels less important as you get older. But it's, it is important, but I just kind of really cared about like how my hair was back then. So I almost had mum who was not a hairdresser, single parent working in the city, a whole life, come home and I'd be like, mum, need a fresh haircut And I'd sort of get pictures up and be like, I need it to look like this. And I had just liked, I've always loved having my haircut.

And even when I got my first job, my money was spent on going out and having a nice haircut. I think back when I was, like, 16, I was probably spending, like, £35 on a haircut for myself back then. And that was a lot of money for a haircut back then. And, so my mum had a set of clippers. I would always cut my friend's hair.

I'd be doing awful things like putting, like, lightning bolts through their hair and things like that. And anyway, so I was at school, enjoyed being creative. And to be fair, anything, I love pottery. Ceramics was my favourite subject at school. And I've always felt that sort of like, okay, you get something and it looks like that.

There's a process. Your hands have been part of the process. It ends up looking like that, hopefully better. And I've just enjoyed it. So when it comes to like working with wood or in the garden, like landscaping and things like that, I had quite a few jobs labouring and there'd be quite manual and I just enjoyed getting stuck in to be fair.

Anyway. So I went to school, went to college and studied sports science, and I was learning about anatomy and physiology, nutrition, massage, thinking that because I love playing football, that that was the direction I wanted to go into. Really. It was just a big social and I, I did enjoy learning about nutrition. I feel like some of, some of the things I learned still benefit me today.

But I left college. I worked at David Lloyd's as a lifeguard instructor, sorry, a lifeguard and a fitness instructor. And I just found myself in the office, like sketching, drawing, and just really not being focused on the job I was meant to be doing. And I knew it wasn't for whatever reason, the industry that I wanted to go into. And I was a bit sort of lost for a while.

I didn't go to uni. I never really had, as I said, my guy or my mum bless her, worked, nuts off, in London, like as a secretary. She always has done, still does to this day. So we had child minders and things like that. So I never had anybody to give me any career advice or anything like that.

It was really I've kind of figured a lot out for myself. And I'm the oldest out of three. And my mom's relies on me. I'm sort of like her go to. So yeah.

I mean, sometimes I think to myself, you know, would it have been good if I went to uni? But I wouldn't be where I am today. I wouldn't have my wife, my children, a job that I love. So no regrets at all. It all makes you who you are.

Right. But, so after college, I just was labouring, doing odd jobs here and there. And then a friend of mine who was a fitness instructor at Virgin Active Gym, we went out into Leon C for a few drinks. We was actually talking about kind of careers and what the next steps were going to be. And then there was a guy who he knew from the gym, who was the manager of a hair salon in Leigh-On-Sea, which at the time was the place to be.

You know, one of the guys who worked there had cut David Beckham's hair. There's a lot of musicians. It was like a big salon and very vibrant and buzzy. I got chatting to him and I was like, I've always liked the idea of being a hairdresser, but I've never known how to go about getting involved in it. And, you know, there was a bit of a stigma attached to sort of like a guy being a hairdresser and, you know, silly, you know, the most incredible industry to be a part of.

But I, I spoke to him and he reassured me and made me feel really confident that like, it was a great industry to go into. And it was quite niche, you know, like, guys going into hairdressing. He really sold it to me. So I went for a day's trial and rocked up wearing completely like inappropriate clothing. I was like super smart and it was a really creative environment.

Didn't have a clue what I was letting myself in for. And I just had the, I got absolutely ripped, you know, all day long, but it felt like a team and great music, people being creative with their hands. And yeah. So it was just that was it. Day one, I was I was sold.

And but going back to sort of when I used to cut people's hair back in the day, completely clueless on what I was meant to be doing technique wise, I sometimes look back to that and think it was always meant to be, you know? Yeah. Yeah. Definitely. Which is, and that's something I would not have guessed, like, that you were in sports science, the fitness instructing bit, and then moving over to becoming a hairdresser.

So were you then, you're working for that salon, and then it came to a point that you're like, right, I wanna run my own business now? Yeah. So obviously that was my, intro into hairdressing. I did my apprenticeship. I started in the world of hairdressing.

I actually started quite late. I was 18. A lot of people started their apprenticeships when they were school leavers. So at 18, a lot of my friends were going up to work in the city immediately earning good money. And, at the time I was earning £60 a week.

So I had my Volkswagen beetle and I delivered pizzas during the week on a Sunday. I worked in a greengrocers, which I love fruit. So I was quite happy to do that. And I just, again, the hustle, like making it happen. I wanted to go out with my friends at the weekend.

I wanted nice clothes, wanted to get my hair done. So I needed more money than £60 a week. So whilst I was doing my apprenticeship, I was doing a number of jobs and I had it set in my mind that I needed to be qualified by the time I was 21. And that was my sole focus. And so I made that happen and the journey was great.

I look back at my learning days as, like, some of the fondest times in hairdressing, like learning a craft that's gonna allow you to travel the world and cut hair all around the world and, you know, meet lots of interesting people. And then once I got qualified, some of my friends well, my best mate who now lives in California, and one of my other best pals, Dave, we decided we wanted to go traveling. So I got a year's experience as a stylist under my belt, packed up my scissors and then saved up as much as I could. So I didn't have to work too much whilst I was away. And I could just really enjoy the experience.

And we just didn't do your typical traveling route. We had our surfboards and hit up all the surf spots. We looked at a global map and was like, where do we want to go? Sorry. And yeah, so when I was away, one of the, our friends met us halfway through our trip and he was a graphic designer and he'd cause in my apprenticeship, I'd entered competitions.

I had some good photography work of hair that I'd done that would make for a nice poster. So he would, he designed me a poster, Every country I went to, I got a different SIM card and he'd just amend the mobile number on the bottom of this poster. So every hostel I stayed in, I just pinned it to the wall. People would go along and tear my mobile number off. And I reckon when I was traveling and I cut hair every day, most of the time on a beach, no blow dryers.

It was just like travellers wanting a nice haircut and it might be 5 to $10 a haircut. I never really paid for accommodation because my hair prop haircut money would pay for that. And then it allowed me to sort of travel the world just with my scissors and that poster, was really, I see that as a start of me having my own business. And while I was on a Greyhound bus going down the East Coast Of Australia, I'd just done a ski season in New Zealand, snowboarding for six months. And like, I was always thinking when I get back, I want my own business.

I want my own salon. How am I gonna make it happen? What's it gonna be called? All these kind of, like, you know, what I said, what I want it to stand for. I'd obviously worked at this salon in Leigh-On-Sea, which was an incredible place to train, but it was if I was outside the salon and I'd bump into a potential customer, often a lot of the feedback I'd get is, oh, you know, I've seen that salon.

I don't think I'm cool enough to be going to that place. And I thought, geez, that's really cutting off an audience there. And, you know, I've very quickly learned that if you, you know, everybody's got their style and what they want to achieve, but I was always in the mindset that I want to attract as many people as possible. Hence the sort of wanting my salon to be as diverse as it can possibly be. We have elderly people, younger people, all the local business owners, lots of different ethnicities, lots of different hair textures and types.

You look around the salon, it's amazing. So when I was traveling, I was thinking about all these things and, that's I was on a Greyhound bus and looking back through my snowboarding pictures, and there was a brand in, Queenstown, that made beanie hats and it was called Chop, but just with one P and I looked back at like a drunken photo of me out on a night out and I had this Chop hat on and it was just like, boom, it I was like, that is the name of my salon. When I start it, I'm gonna get home. And very quickly, obviously I knew I wanted like a short, sharp, punchy name that was memorable. And I the word chop just with one p wasn't cutting it.

And I just had quickly come up with this idea. If I throw my initials on the end, Paul Phillips, PP, so the double p, not many people know that, but that I didn't want people coming to work for me that was under the banner of Paul Phillips hair. I don't like that if I'm honest with you. It's all about team shop. So, but me being able to throw I think aesthetically, the word shop looks better with two p's anyway.

But that was kind of the start of me coming home. I came back. I can't remember the year, but it was kind of when we was going into a recession and the salon that I worked at were sort of messaging me saying, you know, we've got a job here waiting for you. When you come back, we can promote the fact that you're coming back and get all your clients back. And I, after having the most amazing year in a bit away, I went back to this place that I once loved to the same environment.

Nothing had really changed, but I had changed quite a bit And it quite quickly made me realize this, this is not, I'm not enjoying this. And all my mates were working up in the city and I ended up cutting this guy's hair, who was the owner of the salon. He wasn't a hairdresser, but he was a finance guy, worked in foreign exchange. And he was like the main man CEO of this company called Schneider FX. And I cut his hair and I said to him, I'd love to give working in the city a go.

I know I want my own salon, but it could be fun socially with my friends. I could maybe do that short term and then save to get my salon. So it was always the plan. And he said, well, look, if ever you fancy it, give me a call and we can go from there. So I then took him up on that, conversation.

Next thing I know, I'm a hairdresser from Essex on a on the Fenchurch Street line, going to, London with the a big broadsheet, financial times in my hand, reading about, like, non farm payrolls and GDP and all these all these this territory that I knew nothing about. And I'd have to go up in front of a whole sales floor, and once a month we'd all take it in turns and do, like, a morning talk. And it wasn't something you could prepare for, like, a week in advance because it had to be current news that day. So I had all this pressure of telling people who had just come out of university from Cambridge studying economics. And I'm talking to these people about finance, and I'm like a complete novice.

And it was a lot of pressure and it was a higher sales, high intensity sales role. Cause at the end of every month, you're back on zero again. And, I did it for like a year and a year and a half coming home on the train, doing all of my private hair clients at home. So I was running two full time jobs because the plan was always the salon. But I did that to drum up the money to open up my own salon.

And, that's kind of so the, the plan was always there, but it was just like work hard, save, you know, and just make it happen. So that's kind of that's back in 2011 is when I opened the doors to Chopp. And, we started small, even the furniture, the knowledge, I surrounded myself with good people. I had an amazing friend of mine, shout out to Dave Horton, who just helped me so much, throughout the early days of my business with kind of it's amazing what a free haircut can do, you know. Like, he helped me set up websites, flyers, promotional material, and he was huge help to me.

And I'll be forever grateful for that. And then I got myself a good accountant, who's still my accountant to this day. And I just I've realized that surrounding myself with the right people allows me to be good at what I'm good at, and I leave what they're you know, the bits that they're good at to them. You know? You say and it's that's fascinating.

There's so many different things there that, you know, in terms of the travelling and but there's a pattern here that I'm seeing is that constant working work hard ethic. Right? You're travelling, but you're still working. Although, of course, that allows you to travel more, right? It allows you to fund your trip, and then you're willing to take on you're still doing your hair, but then you're doing going into London, working in a different industry in a finance.

And so you I could definitely see that kind of constant, like, I don't know what the word is, but basically constantly trying to you've got that goal in mind, and you're gonna go for it. Right? Yeah. Saying that at the same time, did you ever have any did you ever question yourself at the start? Like, you'll open up this salon, it's something completely new.

Did that self doubt ever go into your mind? I think, like, ignorance is blissed at times, you know. I, I mean, I remember driving to East Beach in Shoebury to have a barbecue on the beach, and at this time the salon was, like, on my mind a lot. And I drove past the premises that I'm currently in now, and it had a sign up outside it. And when I was a kid, I used to skate park skateboard past this shop and always look at it and think, what a cool little surf shop that would be, if only we had waves in Essex.

And, and then I'm 24 driving past it. There's a sign up outside that says to let by a company called hair and sun. I know it's silly little things, but I saw it as a bit of a sign. And, I call up this hair and son and I'm like, I really like the look of this premises. Can you give me some information on it?

They are like, we've got nine people who have already put offers in on this place. We'll show you around, but it's highly unlikely you're going to get it because two people have already offered above the asking rent. And, I didn't even, that didn't even phase me when they said that I was wanting to go and see it. I wasn't thinking I'm going to get it. I'm just, it was an opportunity.

I took it. I was excited about seeing this building, went inside. It was a complete wreck rotten, you know, it once, I think for many years, it's been a hair salon, but it had been shut for a couple of years. And going back to like decades, it's been a hair salon. Anyway, I, I saw potential in it.

I wrote the landlords or this at the time I didn't realize, but the, this charity, the trustees of the charity, covering letter, just telling them I've fallen in love with their building. I told them about the story that I used to skateboard past it when I was a kid, how one day I'd like it to be one of many of my salons. I'll look after it. I didn't offer above the asking rent. I wasn't in a position to afford to.

And then at all those other nine people, they chose me. So again, I don't really think it's in my nature to doubt myself. I think I do always back myself. And I think the hard work that I put into anything I do gives me the confidence that it's going to be all right. You know, Because a bit like, fitness, and I had a boxing match a few years ago.

It was like a twelve week training camp. I've always loved boxing, but like this twelve week training camp that I had to do intensely, six times a week, nutrition, no drinking. If I had gone through that twelve weeks and woke up and thought, I'll give today a miss, or, you know, I'm gonna have that beer at the weekend, I would have done that ring walk and all my friends and family are watching. And there's a, in my mind, there's a chance I could have got sparked out in front of all my friends and how embarrassing, but I just stuck to the plan and I didn't leave any stone unturned. And I got into that ring confident that I was going to be successful.

And I think I just approached life like that. We haven't, I mean, that's my mindset. I was not touched on any of the sort of like the highs or the, the, the lower times or the more again, even lower times. So I don't think like that. I difficult situations teach me so much.

So if I've learned something, that's a real good thing. It's positive. So even in those situations, I've encountered many of those in thirteen years. I'm more than happy to get into all of those bits and pieces. So long as I'm learning and growing, it's all good.

Have there been times which are stressful? Of course. What kind of stresses me out or makes me not feel as good as I could be, if there's financial struggles or if there's cash flow issues. I feel like that's probably one of the only things that makes me not feel great. Because, you know, when you work hard, you almost feel like, you know, I shouldn't be experiencing this.

You know, I'm putting the hard work in. Why am I why is this month tight? But I am all way all about progression and moving forwards. And that could be, I don't know, putting a new interior in the salon, putting a new shop front on, a new website. And I expect in my mind to be able to do all these additional things on top of your normal bills.

And then within a week, you're fine. And you're back on track. And obviously nowadays things are very expensive. So getting back on track just in a day, in a week, is not always as straightforward as that. So I feel like they're the times that I kind of feel the pressure or yeah.

But not doubt. I don't ever doubt myself. I love your I love that mindset, you know, that you know that it's all gonna work out in the end. And I guess because of what you say, like, you'll figure out anyway. Even if you do get hit by something, you'll find a way around it, which you've obviously proven by what you've done, how you've worked in previous years before going up to get in your salon.

Do you at the same time, do you ever when you get that pressure of, like, financial pressure, it could be some something else, Sleepless nights and just that constant feeling of, like, although you're thinking positive to some degree, there's sometimes a bit of a grey cloud above your head. Yeah. Because when I feel the pressure, things that I know make me feel better slip off a bit. So the alarm might go off at five, and I might wanna go and do that f 45 class or get to the gym, hit the bag, or wherever it may be. And it's almost like a, not a little self destruct, but like when I'm under pressure, I might, my sweet tooth craving might kind of hit me, and then I'm demolishing a pack of chocolate digestives at late at night when I know I shouldn't be doing that, because it's, I'm gonna instantly regret it, or, yeah.

I little if I if you work on if what I've found over the years is if I do all the things that I know are good for me, like keeping my nutrition sweet, drinking lots of water, training, you know, making sure that I'm present when I'm not working with my family. That's the good stuff. And if I'm on all the good stuff, then little niggly things don't bother me at all. But when I kind of might feel myself under a bit of pressure financially, and I then slack off on the things that I know are good for me, little niggly things can bother me. So it's just this cycle of, I just know I need to do the work to have the consistency with the mindset.

And if I stop, I don't know. It's just like things can sort of snowball and quite quickly your good habits can get out of sync. And, yeah. So I feel like if I just stay doing what I know makes me feel good, everything seems fine, you know? You got good level of, self awareness.

Have you always had that? I am never really somebody never been someone to sort of, I'm not a stat man. I don't really read books. You know, like in lockdown, I use this as an example, I learned to kite surf and it was a nice way of just kind of getting some fresh air and being out in the open when we weren't sort of allowed to do too much. And sort of one of my, friends and colleagues that works with me, he's a kite surfer, and he's really sort of, technical with it.

And he'll be sending me all these YouTube videos on, like, you know, talking about apparent wind and true wind and getting really deep in the sort of techie bits of it. And I'm like, it goes over my head. I need to do it. I feel it. And I'm sweet.

You know, I and in life, that is how I am. I feel like I am quite in sync and in tune with me and, I know what's good for me and I feel it and that's, that's good enough. I don't get on scales or I, I don't know. I just, I've always been like that really. Yeah.

Tuned in with, I guess it's all the intuition and everything as well. Yeah. Definitely. Yeah. I think I don't really know what that is, that gut feeling, that intuition, that kind of third eye or whatever people wanna label it as, but I definitely think I am quite in sync with that.

You know, there's lots of distractions in life and lots of noise, and it's quite easy to, you know, with this tech and social media, it's very easy to sort of come off the path. And I'd be lying if I said there's times where I don't doom scroll and this, that, and the other, but I just know what's good for me, what's not, and I just really try my best to be consistent with the stuff that's good for me. And that helps when there are challenging times within the business, like lockdown, and I mean, that was that was probably one of the most challenging times, financially. And that's one of the things that kind of gets me the most. Yeah.

I just kind of, if I stick to kind of what makes my mind clear, then you can get through it. And also going back to what you said about the, always thinking like, you know, you're going to be okay. Is even back to when I was traveling, like I had something as simple as a comb and a pair of scissors in my hand and I was always okay. I always had a bed to sleep in and yeah, like, I always, you know, if you think about what is the worst case scenario, if you're okay with that, there's not really much else that can rock you. And I actually, like, five years ago, yeah, I kind of experienced something that was very unexpected.

I lost my brother and, so I lost my brother. And then three days later, I became a dad for the first time. And then three months later, we go into lockdown. And I'm like, you, you, I, I couldn't have had any more thrown at me if they tried. And obviously, you know, when you put things into perspective, I really don't think there's much in business that can, can challenge me now.

Like having gone through something so devastating, you know, nothing else is really a a problem, you know? Yeah. Definitely. Because, I mean, that's quite intense, right, going through all of that? Yeah.

Definitely. And, you know, and then all of a sudden, COVID hitting, and I'm guessing your industry, you know, like, what your line of work was really impacted by that. Yeah. For sure. I mean, when looking back, it just seems wild and bizarre.

So being into fitness and health, you sort of think to yourself, I have certain views on whether or not I should have, shouldn't have, should or shouldn't have had to shut down, but ultimately we did have to. So I I did. And it was challenging, you know, like, there was I was very grateful for things that the government put in place, like being able to furlough your staff, which kept them in a job and meant that they had a job to come back to. But if you were a director of a limited company and you were entitled to nothing and you got a mortgage and kids, or I was a new dad, And I mean, and I've got a salon full of stock with no one to use it on. And the grants that you were entitled to weren't enough to cover your overheads.

So I've always been very disciplined with my, accounts and the VAT goes over there, your PAY, your corporation tax, your wages, your rent, and I'm really strict with all that kind of stuff. But I was just seeing things depleting and there's nothing topping it up. And it was like, wow. So I look at those times as like from a business point of view, and also my business turned 10 old. Right.

So I just saw that as a number to, I want back when I was 24, I wasn't in a position to understand the importance of brand identity and have a creative agency develop a logo. I mean, this was all favours pulled from friends and ten years went by and I just saw it as a, I want to evolve Chopp. We can't stay as we are. It's all about the growth pushing forward all the time. So yeah, I mean, when I think back to that, I'd at that time, I was rebranding a business.

I had a creative agency that, you know, it's the first time I've entered that world. And, obviously, the realization of the cost involved in kind of branding was mega. So rebranding a business, all the lockdown times, I mean, yeah, it was wild. And, it was very much like everything that was coming in was going out and it was full on, but we've kind of, there was so many times where I thought to myself, I think I've bitten off more than I can chew here. I don't think I've got the money to pay for this.

I've still got my full clientele that I day to day I'm running a full column and I've got a team of people to manage and in, in my mind and in the background, I've got so many things going on. Yeah. I mean, you know what it's like, you're a business owner. You just, I don't know if you've experienced that in times where you're like, maybe there's a bit too much going on and how's this going to happen. But I even to this day have moments like that, but I think maybe it's something I need to work on or maybe it's a good thing.

I've not quite worked that out yet, but I, it's clearly a place that I feel quite comfortable because I find myself there quite frequently. What I tell myself is that living on the edge kind of like, I mean, as I say, there are, it's calculated, so I'm not living on the edge where like things go really south, like quickly, but just cashflow when you're constantly pushing and constantly wanting to evolve and grow and refresh cashflow can be an issue, you know, and with what we do in can't charge for a haircut, what I'd like to charge and what the people of Essex are willing to pay. Maybe two different things. We're premium. So already people come in and pay a decent amount for their hair.

So, yeah, there's just, loads, loads going on, but, I just, I do enjoy it all. I mean, for, for even when it's challenging, I still kind of you somehow get there, and it feels good when you do, you know? Yeah. Yeah. Definitely.

But it's a lot to take on. Right? Because you are a single business owner. And so there's a lot of responsibility as well. And you talked, briefly on how important it is for you to know that your team are evolving as well and giving them that opportunity.

How do you manage that? Like, from a point of you've got all these ideas, or at the same time, you've got these challenges. Do you is that something that you manage yourself? How do you do you talk with others? How do you kind of kind of create more clarity in your mind?

So we with the team, we have monthly meetings. I have you know, a lot of my team have been with me a long time, so we have regular sort of one to ones. We talk a lot, you know, I feel like communication is everything. And I feel like when that's lacking problems occur. So I get to understand kind of where their heads at, whether they're very happy as things are, whether they want a bit more involvement in a certain area, whether they've got personal goals and ambitions to achieve.

I really work closely and try and I get a lot of satisfaction out of seeing people who work for me tell me that they're striving for something, and then in the not too distant future, they have got that, you know? So lots of communication with the team. The ideas I have and grow for the business or, you know, Chopp hair care, which has been a real amazing chapter for me. That that is, you know, that's one of the things I'm really proud of in this, as I say in 2025 is, you know, in the hairdressing industry, there's a lot of brands and corporations that you have to invest your money into to buy premium products to then use on your customers, and they're forever increasing in cost. And as I say, the margins are tight, you know?

And I just I want somebody being able to leave Chopp with a beautiful bag of goodies, going home with premium, sustainable, natural haircare. When they get in the shower in the morning, they can see Chopp. It's a reminder. Oh, you know, like I've not had a haircut in a while. Hopefully they've rebooked, but we've got many ways in which they can book an app and tech and all these bits and pieces.

But you know, what's more important than seeing a brand that's not Chopp in their shower and having no relationship with that brand or connection from linking that to my business? Or so I always think of it like a full three sixty degree visual. So like, if you look online and look at our website, if you walk past the salon at night and put your head through the window, if you phone us up, if you are in the salon, I just want to make sure that every little department you might experience an interaction with my business, that it's as premium as premium as, you know, like, as I say, visual tech being in this, do you know what I'm trying to say about that? I just kind of feel like every idea I have, I, I guess I implement myself, because I'm not in a partnership. I don't have like, you know, my wife who's super supportive.

She's busy with the kids. She's a dancer. Hair dressing is not her thing. Although I go home and I talk a lot, she's probably wanted to talk about other things. So yeah, I mean, I am part of a network within the hairdressing industry.

I get to bingo and network with, peers. And I've had some really exciting news this morning, actually, with a brand that have asked me to kind of be a part of, being almost like a sort of key presenter for their brand, which would allow me to mingle a network with other salon owners. Because a lot of time, it can be quite lonely. You know? You're not in it with you're on your own.

So if there's ever an opportunity, I'll go to this, it's called Red Club Breakfast, where I've been asked to be a key speaker, soon. And that'll be a room full of people who are business owners, and they will be asking me questions along with the other members of the panel. And those opportunities I really like to grab a hold of because it's an opportunity to speak to like minded people who are in similar situations, you know? But I mean, I actually take a lot of my inspiration, not from the hairdressing industry, even though I'm a hairdresser and I have a hair salon, I like to travel. I love hotels.

I like nice restaurants. I very, I don't see anyone local to me as competition. I don't, if I'm honest, I don't care what anyone else is up to. I only care about Chopp my team, my people, our customers, and what experience they have when they come to my salon. So I might go, I mean, I'm here today looking at these lovely mugs.

I might, you know, I might leave and think branded mugs, what a great idea. I might, you know, I go to a nice restaurant and the way they bring their coffee out, and I might like that. I'll try and implement that with my younger members of staff as to how we deliver something. And so, yeah, I kind of brain's always ticking. Yeah.

And it's interesting that you say about I love that actually, that you don't get fazed by what the competition is doing because it comes back to sort of there's a pattern there in terms of your career is you've always sort of remained focused on what you want to achieve and you don't get distracted because you touched on it a little bit earlier about distractions and their social media. Does that if you're so you don't get completely distracted by what the competition's doing. At the same time, you're on social media. Do you kind of find that you are getting pulled in by what others are doing? Or do you see that as a, I guess, a potential positive, as in, alright.

I like what you're doing. I'll take that. Yeah. I mean, social media, I've the accounts that I follow, I mean, interests of mine. So I love boxing.

I love surfing. So if you were to go into my personal social media, really the things I'm getting to see are things I I'm interested in. I don't I'm not even that fussed about, you know, like I do, but I don't really pay attention to like the stories if friends post stories or because I just want to, my relationships to be real, you know, so I want to catch up with them and learn about what they've been up to in person or over the phone. I don't want to live my life through social media. So, yeah, I social media, I mean, I mean, to fitness, my feed is full up with a lot of, you know, people, like, stacked and with abs and this and the other, and it might make you think, wow, I need to get to the gym more.

But, yeah, I just any time spent say, for example, if you were somebody to worry about what, you know, your competition's up to, I just see that as that time you've just wasted thinking about that you could have spent on your own business. Yeah. And that's how I think I don't it doesn't cross my mind to wonder what anyone else is up to because so long as I stay focused solely on what I'm doing. I mean, when I look around the salon again, talking about that intuition, that feeling, I can feel whether things are going well or not, and things feel like they're going very well when I'm in my salon, when I'm not in my salon. Just the feeling I have.

And yeah. So I'm gonna keep doing what I'm doing, you know? If I was to sort of distract from that path and start worrying about, you know, what service somebody else might be offering, what price they're charging, you know, I invest a lot of money in my team, further educating courses, and we never stay the same. So, yeah, it's just a I just focus on us, you know? I love that.

I love that. I'm like writing notes down for myself because I'm just like, I need you know, find it really inspiring. Is there anything that gives keeps you awake at night? I really do think it's like that feeling of, have I sort of taken on a bit too much? Have I, you know I guess maybe I've I think one of my flaws is I am impatient.

You know? I want things done now, and I want them done to the standard that I want them done to. And a lot of the time that's unrealistic. So that's maybe things that can like, keep me up at night when I'm thinking, you know, about a little, and as I say, those little niggly things are really more prevalent when I'm not looking after myself. So I know that if I look after myself, yeah.

I mean, some people say don't sweat the small stuff, but I think I do I do sweat the small stuff because if I'd if I just dismiss those little things, what do they then grow into? So, I just care about detail and I don't by any means, claim that I get it right all the time. You know, I'm sure there's so much more I could be doing and but, I feel like what does help me sleep at night is if you know you're doing your best, when it comes to, like, I don't know, retention of staff. I do truly know that I can't I can't be doing any more for the team that I've got. I I give them my all and I, when I make decisions, I don't make decisions based on greed or thinking about myself and how this is going to solely benefit me.

It's like collectively, how is that going to affect team Chopp? And when I put my head on the pillow, I'm pretty cool because I'm like, I'm not doing anything dodgy with my accounts or any I do everything as I should. I don't want to kind of be in trouble with anyone. I just want to kind of do a good job. And, yeah.

So I kind of, that helps. I mean, if you ask my wife, she'd probably say I'm a great sleeper. And I can sleep through anything, can sleep on anything, but I don't know. I do have a busy brain and there are quite a few times where it's sort of hard to switch off. But, yeah, on the whole, I kind of yeah.

I think when saying it all out loud, it really the things that just kind of make a difficult day is when I'm worrying about anything sort of financial. And as I say, that's if I'm really trying to pick out the bits that are, like, the not such good bits. So I wish, like, money was no object because if money was no object, I have a dream and a vision of what my salon would ultimately look like. And I'm working, I'm still work, even though I am where I am and I have what I have, I'm nowhere near where I want to be. And I've got, I've got a dream vision of what that looks like.
54:45 - 55:06
And I'm, you know, with the potential for salon number two around the corner, I want it to kind of be closer to that vision, if not that vision. So that's kind of what I'm working towards. So it just never stops, does it? No. Definitely not.

It doesn't stop at all. And you say you you sometimes think you've bitten on more than you can chew type of thing. Is that because your mind's thinking about where you want to go or with where you're at currently? I think sometimes I do unnecessary things. Like, I things that might not even be on someone's radar of all that needs renewing or that, you know, the entire salon needs redecorating even though it was only done three months ago.

I'm just like, I don't want there to be a scuff on the wall. I don't want there to be a hair in sight, And I cut hair all day. Do you know what I mean? It's stupid. I think I can torment myself of having these unrealistic expectations.

I want the salon to look like a showroom all day, every day. Yeah. It's got hundreds of people going in and out of it every week. So, but I just tell myself that, you know, if you aim for the stars, you'll get somewhere close. So by me probably being sometimes a pain in the ass and having these expectations, it means that the team gets to work in a facility that's functioning well.

Nothing's broken. The tech that they have available, they can my team can go home, come to work, focus on the job at hand, look after their clients, and they know that they're in safe hands and everything's being looked after for them. And the clients coming into the salon know that my standards are high. You know, there's not gonna be a shortcut taken, and that reassures them that they're in safe hands. So if, for example, I've had a long term client who comes to me, and I'm busy, and they can't get in with me, and they're gonna go and see one of my junior members of staff, they know and they've got the confidence that they're gonna be fine because the training that I've put in place is gonna have got them to the level they need to be at to do it to a standard that I would be happy with.

You know? And do you ever has there been a time where you've an expectation hasn't been met, or certain standards aren't being met within the team? How do you manage that? Oh, that's happened quite a fair few times. I mean, I always think I don't know where I heard this, but I just really and sometimes it's not even meant as a quote, but I listen to a lot of podcasts myself.

And I actually got a pad in my book that I just constantly write quotes in and things that mean a lot to me. Initially, I started writing on my iPhone, and I feel like a digital calendar, notes on your iPhone. It doesn't really mean too much to me. Whereas if I, like, put pen to paper, maybe one day my kids would be, like, you know, have my black book of all my quotes. So I thought that's quite cool.

But, I heard something, and it was it, I took out this conversation that psychology is as infectious as the flu. And I just really resonated with that. And I feel like, you know, somebody's mindset, if they are, you know, bad apple amongst the team, if they are bringing baggage to your working place, and things that should be left at the door, like, it can really infect the entire team. So when it comes to standards not being met, I feel like the standard we set that is that we provide an experience for our customers and we're professionals. And people don't you know, sometimes you've got clients who've known you for many years, and they do wanna know what you've been up to and how you are.

And it's like a counselling session, but, ultimately, they need to leave feeling a lot better than when they came through the door. So for me, when situations I've experienced where standards has not been met is when somebody's left and they've not had the experience that I'd like them to have, and then conversations need to be had. You know, I'm at a place now where I just want to work. I want people, whether this is a good thing or a bad thing, but it's just how I am. I, we're a small intimate team and everyone who works at Chopp, I want them to be the right fit.

In the past, I've had maybe prioritized the wrong thing, and this is all lessons learned. I've kind of someone might have rocked up and to my business, and they might have a a full client base and they turn over x amount a week. And it's like, wow, that's a real nice injection into the business. And then they're not the right fit. And I've kind of taken people on board in that sort of scenario and quickly realized, wow.

This is, this has rocked the boat, and this is so I've it's quite a nice place to be. I'm at a place now where I'm very happy to make decisions that are right for the team. And if it does mean that you've got to have an uncomfortable conversation, it just has to happen, you know? Yeah. I was gonna ask how you know, about the uncomfortable conversations, but it seems that that's something that you're quite happy to have.

I don't enjoy it. Like, I don't know if anyone enjoys it. Maybe they they're sickos and they do enjoy it. But yeah. I mean, I, you know, I try and tell myself just, you know, business is business and really try and restrict the amount of like personal attachment or emotion attached to that situation as possible.

It's easier said than done. You know, I care about my business. I care about my team. And, you know, you want people to be happy and you also don't want to make people sad. So sometimes I wish I was a bit more cutthroat.

I like to give people the benefit of the doubt. And then once it's got to a point where it's like, you've crossed me too many times. It is very, I'm very good at shutting that door and there's no hard feelings and nothing personal. I don't think about it on that level. It's just, you're not right.

Let's call it a day. But I do like to nurture people. You know, I've we're in a creative industry. We have many different creative mindsets coming into our world. And I like almost being like a bit of a mentor where I can kind of try and teach people to think a bit more positively and that look at what they have rather than what they don't have.

I think a lot of people struggle with that, to be honest with you. But sometimes I feel like, you know, I can hang on to that a bit too long, you know? Yeah. Working on that. Yeah.

That's, yeah. But it sounds like, as you say, I love the way you say team Chopp, so it's definitely something that's really, really important to you, is just making sure you have the right fit. And, before we wrap up though, I always like to ask one last question. Okay. If you were to go back and start again, let's say, or you were going back to talk to your younger self, what would you, what would you say to, to Paul twenty years ago or fifteen years ago?

Wow. I would probably say just really, like, may I think maybe in my younger days in my you know, I started when I was in my early twenties, maybe I cared a bit too much about what other people thought, and I wasn't as forthcoming. I've had a really fun life, and I've done some cool things, but I've never kind of been that kind of like person who wants to sort of like have it all on camera and be like, hey, look at me. But I feel like back then, how do I have started that then? My online presence now would be a lot different to what it is because I'm not really invested the time in it.

And I'm really trying to change that now. So I would just say, just back yourself, be confident, and there's gonna be many people out there who do like what you're saying and what you're about, and there's always gonna be haters. And just if you can, as hard as it may be, like, ignore the comments. Don't even read the comments and just focus on you and the people that support you. Yeah.

And anyone who doesn't is you just let them do their thing, and they don't need to be a part of your bubble. You know? Yeah. Definitely. Great advice.

And usually haters mean that you're doing something right as well, so, you've been awesome. Thank you. I've absolutely loved talking with you today. You've, you've inspired me by things that you've said, and it's, as I say, I've been note taking almost of things that I would love to take away, so I'm sure our audience today are gonna be really appreciative of you sharing your story today. Thank you, Corinne.

I wanna ask you loads of questions. You seem like you've got a lot of successful things going on. Well, yeah. I will be interviewed very soon as well, so, listening to that. Yeah.

I'll be able to share back. So thank you again. Thank you everyone for listening today.