From Sandwich Shop Struggles to Scaling ID Card Centre Nicola O’Brien’s Journey of Growth & Family Balance

In this episode of Your Mind Your Business, host Carina McLeod founder of eCommerce Nurse, sits down with Nicola O'Brien, co-founder of ID Card Center, to dive into the reality of scaling from sandwich shop struggles to building a thriving family business while maintaining work-life balance.

Chapters:
[00:01:20] Introduction - Meeting Nicola O'Brien
[00:02:15] From Event Management to Entrepreneurship
[00:03:40] The Sandwich Shop Dream and Reality
[00:09:29] Joining ID Card Center - The Two Week Plan
[00:16:00] Navigating COVID with 20+ Employees
[00:21:08] Finding Purpose in Team Development
[00:26:18] The "At What Cost?" Philosophy
[00:29:15] Recognizing and Recovering from Burnout
[00:35:49] Building a No-Fear Company Culture
[00:42:54] Advice to Your Younger Self

💡 Topics Covered:
✅ The transition from employee to entrepreneur and the reality check that follows

✅ How a failed sandwich business led to joining and scaling ID Card Center from 3 to 23 employees

✅ Managing the pressure of COVID decisions when 20 people look to you for answer

✅ The importance of values-driven decision making and sleeping well at night

✅ Recognizing burnout signs and implementing boundaries that actually stick

✅ Building apprenticeship programs and creating flexible job opportunities

✅ Working with your spouse in business while maintaining family priorities

✅ The "at what cost?" philosophy for sustainable growth over rapid scaling

💼 "I'm gonna set up my own business. Well, this is what you do. This is everything you need to know, and you are constantly having to make those decisions."

🔥 "As long as we can sleep at night knowing we've done our best and we've stuck to our values, then that's just gonna have to be good enough."

⚖️ "I don't wanna get to 10, 20 years time and be burnt out, exhausted, unwell, have no relationship with my children for the sake of having a bigger business."

📌 If you're an entrepreneur struggling with work-life balance, wondering how to scale without sacrificing your values, or looking for real talk about the challenges of family business partnerships, this episode offers practical wisdom from someone who's been there.

🔔 Don't forget to like, subscribe, and hit the notification bell to stay updated with more episodes of Your Mind Your Business!

#Entrepreneurship #FamilyBusiness #WorkLifeBalance #BusinessGrowth
#YourMindYourBusiness #WomenInBusiness #BusinessPodcast #Entrepreneurs
#IDCardCenter #BusinessScaling #BurnoutPrevention

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Transcript

[00:00:00] Business Owner: I'm gonna set up my own business. Well, this is what you do. This is everything you need to know, and you are constantly having to make those decisions. Going back to COVID for example. You know, suddenly you've got like 20 people turning around looking at you, asking what's happening. You're like, I don't know.

And so it's always been, well what does our gut say? I need to be able to sleep at night, whatever decisions we make. As long as we can sleep at night knowing we've done our best and we've stuck to our values, then that's just gonna have to be good enough.

Welcome to your mind, your Business, the podcast that dies into the real grit of entrepreneurship.

[00:00:39] Host: I'm your host, founder and fitness fanatic, and today we have an extra special guest, the founder of ID Card Center. Welcome. I say extra special because we go way back from um, we actually went to school together, so we are, uh, reuniting today.

which is super exciting.

So. For the audience that are listening today, they're probably wondering who you are, and I'm actually excited to see and hear who you are today. So if you can share a little bit about who you are, and then I'm gonna press rewind and go

to the very start of your entrepreneurial journey.

[00:01:20] Business Owner: Okay, so today, uh, married mama two, uh, got a 9-year-old boy and an 11-year-old daughter. About to start secondary school. Um, run my business with my husband.

Um, yeah, fellow fitness fanatic. Um, so I think that's why we're kind of reunited, didn't we? Kind of, of our lover fitness. So yeah, that's me.

[00:01:40] Host: Fantastic. So I was trying to think about sort of.

The person that I, I guess the person, I, I know or sort of remember because we haven't actually completely, well, we haven't

met in about, I was trying to figure it out. About 20 odd years. 20 odd. Yeah.

So, so a long time and thinking about when you started that journey and I was like thinking about, I remember a time when, uh, you, you've always had that entrepreneurial flare as I remember.

So I guess let's hit, hit rewind. Go. To the very start and talk about, you know, what were those first steps to,

uh, entrepreneurship for you?

[00:02:15] Business Owner: I wouldn't actually say that I was an entrepreneur or had an entrepreneurial spirit at all. My, the background, the career I fell into sort of out of college was event management. Absolutely loved it. Working at Silverton Circuit, putting on lots of different types of events, it was the career for me.

It led into a job that involved quite a lot of travel. Um, literally got to the point where I had two suitcases packed. I'd come back, wash bag, I'd go from one to the next and I'd be off again. Um, and when my partner and I got engaged, um, you know, we knew we were gonna want to sort of start a family. I was like, this career can't kind of continue.

Um, I dunno how to make it work. I dunno how to balance it. So I'd always had a love of, um, food and kind of hospitality as well. And I dunno why we did it, but when we were sort of. In our early stages of our relationship, we used to go camping a lot. Like looking back now, I've got kids, I'm like, why weren't we, you know, in the Caribbean?

But we went camping and we'd sit there like round the campfire, planning out my, my cafe and what it was gonna look like in this real sort of social space and this sort of like idea to bring people together and. Um, give good food. You like, make people happy through food. So he kind of encouraged me to set up my own cafe and catering company.

So that was kinda my first business on my own. Um, and I ran that for about three years.

[00:03:40] Host: Amazing.

That's, uh, just the fact that you had that support earlier on and you were, you, you made that

dream quickly a reality.

[00:03:50] Business Owner: Yeah. it it was a bit whirlwind actually, um, probably six months from going, I need to make a change to me, like being in there and like doing the re the refurb and knocking walls down and, and getting set up.

So yeah, happened really, really quickly.

[00:04:06] Host: talk through how you felt then, because of course you were doing events management, you were then working for someone and then all of a sudden you're

working for yourself.

[00:04:14] Business Owner: I was balancing the two at the beginning, so my cafe was actually just down the road from where I worked, so I was like popping out my lunch break and trying to balance the two.

And I actually thought that I was gonna open the cafe and only be there at weekends and still have my main job for, for like a year or so. And then within about two weeks I was like, nah, I need to be here full time. Like I went into it completely deluded, I suppose, as to what the realities were. Going to be of like running my own business.

[00:04:44] Host: And what was it that pulled you back in? Could, like you planning to work weekends, but it meant of

course that wasn't possible.

[00:04:50] Business Owner: Sorry. Pulled me back into

[00:04:52] Host: to then work to

be your main job.

[00:04:55] Business Owner: I think I quickly realized that your business is about you. Then trying to hand that over to somebody else was just not gonna work.

So it was like, okay, I need to be there to get my vision across all the time. Um, maybe that could have come later, but certainly in the early days, it's really important to be there early on and kind of go, no, this is, this is the brand. This is what we're about

[00:05:21] Host: because I guess from day one, you know, some people when they're start starting up, the business will be the only person doing that, doing that job, but you hired people from day one. How did that feel that that responsibility of having people, uh, that you had to effectively your, your paying and, and you've got that

responsibility?

[00:05:39] Business Owner: For me, it was my, I think it was my safety net like, uh. This is why I say I'm not an natural entrepreneur. I actually never want to go it alone, and as soon as I was alone.

I felt kind of a bit stranded and I needed people around me as my safety net I needed, and, and that has been the case ever since. You know, I need those, those experts in their areas. Um, and I just like having people to kind of bounce ideas off and a bit of accountability as well. Um, I'm a really good employee.

I don't like having someone not, you know, to not answer to.

[00:06:16] Host: So you have the sandwich

business for three

[00:06:19] Business Owner: years? Was it?

Yeah, so it was

the, the problem with that business, I was making lots of notes kind of when I knew I was coming on here. And it's like, I think one of the reasons it failed was because failed, um, I kind of lost my sense of identity with it.

Like I very. From the beginning I was like, this is what I wanted it to be. And I had a really clear vision and I got really lost looking at all the competitors and what they were doing. And then I was like, I just need to become all things to all people. And the menu grew. It just became unsustainable. I was trying to do outside catering.

I was trying to extend the shop hours. I was trying to bring more product lines in. My wastage went up, um, and it was just becoming more and more unmanageable. We struggled to make any money back from the initial investment on the reef refurb. Um, and about a year and a half in our daughter came along.

Um, so yeah, that was an interesting kind of period of. My husband had his business, I had my business and we had a newborn. Um, so yeah, that's when we decided actually we should probably sell up and I'll try something different.

[00:07:30] Host: It's interesting that you say about identity there and as well because of of course having a, having a child as well, you completely there, there's a change of identity there, so you are, you are managing this, the, the shop your first business ever and you've got a daughter that, that's a lot to, to sort of

take on and figure out the direction that you're going.

[00:07:49] Business Owner: Yeah, it was a huge amount and I think like when I try and look back at that period, I'm like. A, I dunno how we did it.

BI think some of it's still a blur. Um, but yeah, Sunday was my kind of, I'm not opening the shop on a Sunday, definitely not. But that was my day of wages and admin and putting the orders in and yeah, poor daughter, bless her. She had an interesting first 18 months of just, you know, she was very good in her car seat.

Bless her as she got taken around everywhere.

[00:08:17] Host: Bless her. And I mean, it takes a lot to then go, do you know what? Let's shut it. This isn't working because I guess you've put blood, sweat, and tears into this business and then you're saying,

no, we are not gonna continue with it

[00:08:30] Business Owner: Yeah, it, it was really challenging.

Um, looking back, I probably did go through a bit of a, a mental health dip at that time. There's definitely all of those feelings of failure and why couldn't I make it work? Um. Family had put money in, uh, family and friends had put time in, you know, even down to all the people that just came out and were loyal customers.

You know, you, I felt a sense of responsibility to everybody. Um, but ultimately we knew for the good of the family that it wasn't sustainable. So we recouped as much as we could through a sale. Um, and yeah, just made that, made that decision.

[00:09:10] Host: But it was good though. You could, so you kept it going, you were able to sell the business

on

[00:09:14] Business Owner: Yeah.

Sold it as a going concern. So someone took it on as and And carried and running it as it was. Oh, okay. Took the staff on as well, and yeah.

[00:09:21] Host: Okay. That's great. So it wasn't a complete, complete closure then?

No.

No. So what was then

the next stage for you?

[00:09:29] Business Owner: after so I said to my husband, I, I just need two weeks off.

And he was like, well, just come and work for me for, for a bit while you figure out what you want to do. So I said, right, give me two weeks and I'll be there. And, um, joined him at ID card center to do a few bits on the website for a few weeks, and, uh, 10 years on. I'm still here.

[00:09:52] Host: I was gonna say, I don't

think

that, I love the fact that you were quite clear on two weeks. What was it that you, do you remember that two weeks as in what you thought in your

mind and why you needed the two weeks?

[00:10:03] Business Owner: I think I just needed a pause. Mm. I just needed a, yeah,

yeah. A clear pause.

[00:10:08] Host: a. clear A clear, break. Yeah. And then, so you are obviously then you've got quite a, a key role now within, um, the, uh, ID card center. So I guess that started off, as you say, working on a few

tasks and it's completely changed to where you're at now.

[00:10:24] Business Owner: Yeah, it's been, it's been quite an adjustment for me to see it as my business as well. You know, it was very much my husband's business. He was the, not the founder, he bought it through a management buyout, but he'd been running it before he bought it.

Um, so I'd al and that happened the year we got married. So I'd always been in the background. I'd always kind of been involved and knew what was going on. Um. But yeah, then to sort of join the business, it wasn't really until I got there that I saw the potential in it. So I'd sit there like doing some stuff on the website and I would hear him on the phone giving out hours and hours of like free advice and you know, helping people.

I'd be like, okay, who's that customer? Oh, they're not a customer yet. And I'm like. Sorry, you've just been on the phone for two hours. He's like, yeah, it's all about the customer service. And the more I kind of sat there, the more I was like, we've really got something here. Like we are really kind of customer focused.

Um, and I've got, you know, my background is also working for big corporates. I love systems. I love process, I love plans. I was like. I think if we can put in some of what I've learned in my career and working for different organizations, if we can put that in this three person business, we can really grow.

Um, and I also felt like I had a sense of responsibility to pay back the money he'd invested in my failed business. Um, which he does reassure me. I've paid back tenfold now I

[00:11:55] Host: keep checking.

So what was the size of the

company that when you stepped in?

[00:12:00] Business Owner: So it was about three of Wow.

[00:12:02] Host: And how many is there now?

1. 
   

Wow. Okay. So you've grown it substantially. yeah.

[00:12:07] Business Owner: Yeah, yeah. We've had two office moves as well. 'cause we keep outgrowing where we are, so, um, yeah,

[00:12:14] Host: I'm guessing that hasn't

been plain sailing either. So, um, you, you mentioned about the sandwich shop and, and the, the challenge of, of managing that. I'm guessing there was another challenge of, of where you

are from the three to the, to the 23.

[00:12:27] Business Owner: Oh, multiple, multiple challenges along the way. Um, but they, and they're ever changing. And I think that's one of the, one of the things you just need to embrace about running your own business is. There's probably very rarely gonna be a status quo because something is gonna come up, whether it's a staffing challenge, a customer challenge, changes in legislation, you know, there'll always be something to, to get to grips with.

Mm. And um, yeah, it's just gonna unsettle everything for a bit and then you go again.

[00:13:00] Host: How do you manage that? Because I always call it the

rollercoaster, as in you've got the constant highs and the lows and somebody came on my podcast said, um, I never get too high with the highs and I never get too low with the lows.

But that's all well and good. But sometimes those highs are fun, but those lows can be a real smack too, uh, you know, to the ego. And just in general, how

do you manage and balance that out,

[00:13:23] Business Owner: I think it does help not being out there on my own. You know, people do say, oh, how can you run a business with your husband?

You know, don't you get sick of each other? We are completely opposite people, so we balance each other out, but. I think we do always feel like we've got each other's back. So that really, really helps that I know I've always got him to kind of talk to and he'll appreciate what we're going through. Um, yeah, coping mechanisms, uh, exercise,

[00:13:52] Host: Mm-hmm.

[00:13:53] Business Owner: doing crazy fitness challenges, I think that always helps.

Um, having, 'cause it's something outside of work. Um, I have a coach. She really, really helps. Um, just having, you know, an external person to, to offload to. And, um, yeah, just not trying to do it alone. I think

[00:14:12] Host: on it is interesting on the fitness, um, side of things.

'cause actually a lot of guests that come on, they've, they've, they do fitness to a different level or just all of a sudden I think there was a guest that just decided

to, to walk an ultra, uh, a walk 50 kilometers and doesn't normally, you know, train. Yeah.

Do you think that that helps you from a resilience point of view to manage kind of when those storms hit you?

A

Yeah.

[00:14:37] Business Owner: I think it was Jimmy Carr that said it, but it's that kind of like how privileged we are that our lives are so comfortable that we have to seek out this pain and it, it is kind of like that and it just sort of puts things in perspective a little bit as well.

And yeah, I kind of like going out on those hard runs, those, those ridiculous exercises and, um. It gives me space to think.

[00:15:03] Host: yeah, I guess when you've got that complete pressure, right, because that's a responsibility of like when the team grows, as you say, from three people to 23, those are, you know, you've gotta hit wages and every month

and everything.

[00:15:16] Business Owner: Yeah. Huge pressure. I mean, COVID, great example. You know, none of us knew how to navigate any of that. Yes, we had the furlough scheme to fall back on, but I think a lot of people knew that. You know, furlough might mean that there was some job insecurity there, so we tried to use that as little as possible.

I think we furloughed two people for about six weeks in the whole period. Um, because we felt this sense of responsibility of, well actually we don't know what's going on either. We are trying to navigate this entire situation as well. But you are our team and you're turning up to work, albeit virtually.

Um, and we do have a sense of responsibilities to try and keep you informed and keep you in a job.

[00:16:00] Host: Yeah, I guess that was that one of the, if you were to look back on the challenges within those 10 years, was that one of your biggest challenges or have you been confronted by other ones of just, I guess, giving you those

sleepless nights?

[00:16:13] Business Owner: It's, it's the most obvious and cliche one, you know, I'm sure everybody will say, I mean, some businesses thrive and have grown off the back of, of COVID we did temporarily as well because of the nature of our business and the product. Um, yeah, without a doubt it was one of the, the hardest, and I think what it's done is that.

It's changed the landscape of work, what, you know, even down to home working. You know, a lot of our customers were, you know, access, control and identity for buildings. If those employees aren't going in anymore, you know, there there's a, there's a less need, lesser need, or a different need for our product.

So they're sort of the obvious, that's the obvious one. Um, but one of the challenges I've had recently is actually as we've grown and the team has grown and. By design. We wanted my role to not be full-time, especially while the children are the ages they want. That's what I wanted, the flexibility to be there for them.

Um. So it's obviously meant growing the team, getting specialists in specialists in their areas. And the more I've kind of delegated and as the team's grown, kind of the more lost I've felt. And I've had a real tough kind of two years trying to work out what my role is and what my purpose is. I'm the type of person I am.

I like quite a defined job spec and kind of, yeah. And I something to kind of measure myself against. Probably again, while I love, while I love fitness, um, but yeah, so not having that and that having that ever sort of fluid job role has been quite, quite challenging for me mentally.

[00:17:50] Host: And you

say you have, you have a business coach then I guess your business coach is sort of

coaching you through, through that as

[00:17:56] Business Owner: well.

Yeah, we've been together. I,

I, I, I speak like we're in a relationship 'cause She stuck with me.

Bless her. Um, yeah, we've been together about four and a half years now. Um, and yeah, she's been through everything and she's wonderful because she keeps really detailed notes of my entire journey. So all the things that I forget, she can kind of look back on and go, yeah, but.

Six months ago, this is where you were, or six months ago you said this. And I'm like, oh yeah, good point. Yeah.

[00:18:22] Host: And that's, that's great. And,

uh, and um, I can relate to that from with the business coach and them know, they know you so well, um, and have seen your journey and it's quite easy to forget what you've gone through and. To see where you are now. Have you ever gone through stages where you've just questioned whether or not you can get the business to X?

[00:18:45] Business Owner: Over this last kind of couple of year period, I would say, um, again, just different challenges. I think off the back of COVID, pre COVID, we knew that what we were dealing with now every year feels different.

Like I don't, we don't see the same, um, peaks and troughs or the same sort of trends. So yeah, it, it. feel like we're having to sort of learn things all over again and I'm having to learn new things.

[00:19:12] Host: and is that, is that a challenge in itself that kind of keeps you going? Or does that sort of give you that

more uncomfortable feeling

[00:19:20] Business Owner: late?

Uh, it's been very uncomfortable

lately. I'm trying to embrace it.

Um, and trying to see the learning opportunities and see where I can grow and change my

role, I get a real buzz off the team. For me, it was never about, you know, ID cards and access control. Um, you know, that's not what excites me. What got me really interested in the business was when we could start bringing on more team members.

And actually one thing we've done is we've got a really strong apprenticeship program, so we have loads of apprentices through the business. Um, we've now extended that to. Work experience placements. So being able to work with kind of younger people, give them job op job opportunities, pass on some of what I've learned in the coaching and the mentorship.

Um, that's been a, that sort of helped me find my purpose again. And, um, that keeps me learning because then I can pass more down and pass more onto them.

[00:20:21] Host: have you, do you feel that you've found your purpose now

[00:20:24] Business Owner: A bit more so, yeah. But I think as well just having understanding that it's gonna continually change.

Yeah. Like one of the hardest to adapt, uh oh, One of the hardest adaptations for me, even sort of 10 years into the journey is, you know, is that coming away from that nine to five mindset, like entrepreneurship is. Kind of 24 7, but there's, you know, all the chats we have at home, all the business planning we do of, of a weekend, I don't really think about as work.

You know, for me it's like, you know, that, you know, I'm terrible for that presentee mindset and that's something I need to keep working on. Um, and feeling like, yeah, I just need to be in the business on those days.

[00:21:08] Host: Yeah. And I guess it's, it's a challenge, right? Because it is a family business, you are working with your husband, and then so how do you sort of create those boundaries to make sure that it doesn't

[00:21:22] Business Owner: impede

[00:21:22] Host: in your kind of private

[00:21:23] Business Owner: don't, we

don't, Yeah,

You know, we talk about the business all the time. The kids know everything about the businesses. Um, they can name every business and what each one does. 'cause we've got a few brands under ID card center.

Um. You know, I'm hoping that they're learning a lot too. You know, they'll come into the office occasionally and write motivational messages on the board for the team. So, uh, I'm quite impressed with their grasp of some basic business knowledge

[00:21:51] Host: Oh, I love that. I love that. It's just, you know, and you're being role models and showing them that the sky's the limit because, you know, when, when we grow up, we, we are not necessarily taught entrepreneurship or. Was sort of taught at, well these are the key roles that you, jobs that you would have when you are older and you are obviously introducing that whole, running

a business to, to your children.

[00:22:15] Business Owner: Yeah, absolutely. Like the daughter's already asking whether she should take over one day. Um, but she's still questioning whether she wants to be a full-time gym gymnast or a singer or, uh, yeah, that she's got many, many options. so yeah, I'd like to think that they are sort of picking that

[00:22:31] Host: yeah, definitely. And you mentioned, um, when you were running the sandwich business, you were sort of going into lots of different areas and you were checking out what the competition are doing.

Do you still find that you get kind of distracted with the competition with where you are at? Or do you find that you are kind of quite clear in terms of the

direction that you are heading in?

[00:22:50] Business Owner: I do get distracted, not necessarily by the competition, but by other businesses, other business owners, similar businesses, um, LinkedIn, kind of love, hate relationship with, um. Yeah. But I try and bring it back to my values, our business values.

Mm-hmm. Quite often I can sort of see something and be, oh, we should be doing this, or we should be doing that. Um, and certain things look great in theory, but nobody knows our business like we do. Yeah. So, you know, there's, there's things that people have suggested, oh, you know, you should bring this in or you should implement that.

And I'm like. Okay. But that's not right for our team. I know our team, I know every single one of them on, you know, quite a level. This is what I think we need and it's trying to stay true to that, true to our values and not get distracted by what is potentially either a gim gimmick or someone just trying to sell us something, whether that be product service.

[00:23:47] Host: Yeah, definitely. And do you get, you know, there's always that part where. We talked about it before of questioning yourself and whether you can do X, and it almost sort of gets into your head, doesn't it? When you start seeing everyone talking about themselves. And it might be that, as you say, it's not always the re reality, but it can be slightly distracting just like when you're going through

your own personal growth journey as well.

[00:24:13] Business Owner: Yeah. And like what you were saying before about, you know, do you take the Knocks personally, it's like, of course you do. You know, if you've got a team member and, and, and they leave. You know, you, you do wonder why that's happened and you do start to question that. And then you go on LinkedIn and you see all the kind of, oh, you know, nobody leaves.

Bad businesses, just bad managers. And then you say, oh, I'm a terrible manager. And then I talk to my bus, my coach, and she's like, they're trying to sell you a leadership course, get a grip. I'm like, okay. Yep. And it's just, yeah, having that, that perspective.

[00:24:44] Host: yeah, definitely. And do you find, like you, you've got a business coach now that you can go to.

Do you still get those, um, or I'm saying still I haven't sleepless nights do

they? Do Do you ever

get those?

[00:24:56] Business Owner: Not so much. Ironically didn't sleep last night, but I think that was the fear of coming on here.

Um, and it was very hot. Um, it is funny you should say that, like that's been one of our, well, my guiding principles is like nobody hands you a guidebook on the day.

You're like, I'm gonna set up my own business. Well, this is what you do. This is everything you need to know, and you are constantly having to make those decisions. Going back to COVID for example. You know, suddenly you've got like 20 people turning around looking at you, asking what's happening. You're like, I don't know.

and so it's always been, well, what does our gut say? I need to be able to sleep at night, whatever decisions we make. As long as we can sleep at night knowing we've done our best and we've stuck to our values, then that's just gonna have to be good enough. You know, it might not be the right decision, but it's the one we're gonna make.

And that's been my guiding principle. I, you know, we could probably have grown the business to bigger than what it is now. We could have gone more quickly, but at what cost? And that's something I've said to my husband quite a lot is, but at what cost? You know, I don't wanna get to, you know, 10, 20 years time and be burnt out, exhausted, unwell, you know, have no relationship with my children, um, and have nothing outside of work for the sake of having a bigger business.

[00:26:18] Host: Yeah. That's, that's, that's a great thing to, to highlight. And I, I, it just shows that you are, you come across very grounded. Have you always had that guiding principle? Principle and have you, have you always been

that grounded

[00:26:32] Business Owner: I dunno if it's being grounded or Actually it's, it's a fear. Um, I think probably initially it was a fear of, you know, growing too much too quickly or doing too much out of my own control.

Um, my husband would've been more the one that he, he's the one that comes up with the big ideas. Yep. Um, but then I'll sort of. Balance them out, maybe slightly temper them.

Yeah. Um, so yeah, I wouldn't necessarily say it was a grounding initially. Um, but I think since the kids have come along and, um, family life is what it is, I'm like, I don't wanna do anything to disrupt that.

Yeah. And my kids have got good outside interests. They're happy, they're healthy. They see a lot of us. We are always around for all the different pickups between the two of us. Um. Yeah, I just wouldn't wanna disrupt that. I think childhood is so short when you actually look at your kid's childhood that Yeah, I don't want to, I don't wanna miss any of

[00:27:30] Host: That's so, that's so key in, I guess, being present, which is always an interesting, uh, do you feel that you can be, can be present?

[00:27:38] Business Owner: Yeah, I am. It's actually the reason I got a coach in the first place because I really used to struggle to balance it, especially when the kids were tiny and. I would always be on my phone in front of them on my day off.

I would still always be glued to my emails, checking everything. So it's been a real adjustment. It definitely wasn't an overnight. It's taken a good few years. You know, I started taking Fridays off. I made it a hard and fast rule. Um, and I actually went through a period of burnout, um, a few years ago, and that was the wake up call for me.

And everything sort of changed after that

[00:28:17] Host: that. period of burnout,

you realize it was happening?

[00:28:21] Business Owner: No. It came about two years after sort of the start of COVID, and I think that's, from what I've heard, that's quite a common thing, especially amongst sort of women and mothers, is that we just sort of. Had adrenaline getting us through that kind of COVID period, the homeschooling, the juggle.

And for me, yeah, it was sort of nearly sort of 18 months after, after the first lockdown that it hit me and I went to feed the cats one day and I had a very elderly fussy cat at that point, and I was trying to look at what, you know, which sachet she might actually eat that day. And I burst into tears. I was like, this is it, we've got a problem.

And yeah, that, that was the straw that broke the camel's back. And um, I was like, right, I'm taking two weeks off. I think it was a week actually in the end. Yeah. Took a week off, canceled everything, and, um, just sat and sorted my cupboards out at home.

[00:29:15] Host: It's interesting. Did you

know

that that

was burnout at the time? No. No. When was that, that sort of realization where you look back and

you're like, oh My goodness, I was so burnt out.

[00:29:24] Business Owner: out.

My My

coach. Yeah.

Yeah. Even though I've never met her in person, she has, you know, seen me continually through a screen for four years and I think she could possibly see it coming, but when it happened, she knew.

She was like, yeah, you are burnout for

And was

that the

start where

[00:29:42] Host: to put all those sort of boundaries in place?

[00:29:44] Business Owner: yeah, so that's when my Friday off became a hard and fast note. That's my day off and something really important needs to, to come up, for me to change that. Um, emails came off my phone, took 'em, my work emails off.

Um, and yeah, just those two adjustments were, you know, that, that, that made a massive, massive change for me.

ever

put them back

on

emails? I can get on them, yeah. I can still do it through the app, but it was having them in, you know, mixed in with my, my personal emails. Um, Yeah.

[00:30:16] Host: Yeah. And how do you manage then from the social side of things and just making sure that then you don't also go into that doom

and,

[00:30:23] Business Owner: Doom scrolling. Demon scroll. Yeah.

Demon scrolling.

Um, I do quite often just delete a load of stuff off my phone. So yeah, I do just go through periods where I'm like, no, delete everything that's social. Um, take it all off. Don't wanna know.

[00:30:36] Host: I absolutely love that, and I love the fact that, well, not the fact that you had to experience almost burnout to get to that point, but the fact that you've built those boundaries and you've actually stuck to them because knowing what your boundaries should be and actually adhering to it long term, I think is a big challenge for for many people.

So well done on being able to kind of stick to

that.

[00:30:59] Business Owner: Thank you. I think. It's been a real kind of, oh, I'm gonna use the word I hate now, journey, um, to kind of really understand myself and I can feel things going now, um, you know, also of a certain age where perimenopause is kind of kicking in as well.

So that's been a whole, whole adjustment, but it's kind of looking for those things that you can do. My coach is also really in tune with like women and sort of. Cycles and stuff like that. So, and, and working with your energy and I'm, that's a big thing for me. It's like, what is draining my energy? What gives me energy?

So do more of the stuff that gives me energy. Understand when I haven't got any, don't try and fight through it. and then try and plan things around, you know, peak energy periods and then other work for, for low lower energy periods.

[00:31:52] Host: I think that's fantastic because, you know, I've been listening to more about that and it is quite fascinating actually in terms of, um, and being aware of that

you can really take advantage

[00:32:03] Business Owner: Yeah, and I, I think it's just remembering that we are human beings. Like, you know, AI might be trying to take over the world, but we are not robots. We have got busy messy lives. We've got a lot to manage and we can't all be on full. Full pel all the time. So it is trying to understand that and it's like I say, it's been a real adjustment for me because I'm like, well, you know, Monday to Friday, nine to five, you know, minimum that's what you've gotta work and you've gotta be a grafter and you've gotta show up and dah, dah, dah.

And it's like, actually no, you can probably be just as effective if not more effective doing

[00:32:37] Host: doing it Yeah, yeah, definitely. And you, you mentioned that your husband was, the ideas like comes up with these ideas. Is there still the idea to continue that growth? Are you, are you wanting that growth or are you comfortable with, with where you are

at?

[00:32:53] Business Owner: Nope. Very much planning, more growth. Um, it got some exciting things in the pipeline, so, um, yeah, we, we feel invigorated now to kind of go again on the next. On the next

journey. Exciting.

Yeah. And you've won,

[00:33:08] Host: as a business. you've won, awards and everything, haven't you?

[00:33:10] Business Owner: Yeah, not for a few years now. We haven't en, well, I think we've entered some now.

Um, so I think we're waiting on some

[00:33:17] Host: Mm-hmm.

[00:33:18] Business Owner: we have been lucky enough to win some awards over the last few years. Yeah, great opportunity to kinda get the team out as well. And you know, we had a, it was about four years ago now, but you know, really nice evening and the awards

[00:33:31] Host: Yeah, Yeah, definitely. And you've mentioned

like the

team are really important to you and you seeing them grow. How do you, you know, a big challenge often is when. Growing the team, but then if your business, you wanna give the team opportunities, how do you sort of manage that? That team part seems to be quite big for you.

How do you manage that in terms of giving them the opportunities? And just as you said, you take, don't wanna take it personally if people go and onto New Horizons, but how do

you, um, navigate all of that?

[00:34:02] Business Owner: I would say building the team has been one of the biggest challenges we've always had kind of an open door policy and wanting to have an open dialogue with everybody.

[00:34:14] Host: Mm-hmm.

[00:34:14] Business Owner: We've tried to sort of bring in layers of management and sometimes that's worked. Sometimes it really, really hasn't. Um, I think trying to bring people in to understand who understand what my husband and I are all about and what we mean, and that we mean what we say, that's a really big challenge as well.

Um, and sort of trying to, trying to cultivate this kind of like no fear. Culture. That's, it's, that's always, that's been a huge, huge challenge. I think. I always think that we should be able to, you know, just tell someone, yeah, this is how we are and this is how it's gonna be, and that they'll just accept it.

But people don't, you know, they still come in and quite fearful of, you know, maybe putting ideas across or, um. Yeah, making suggestions and we're like, no, no. Bring them. You know, what's the worst that can happen? Yeah. So building that kind of no fear kind of open culture has been been quite tricky. But I think we're getting better at, better at sort of spotting those ones that have that, that really get it.

And then the more of them we get, the more we attract. And then. Sometimes where we struggle to get the messaging across 'cause people just go, oh, you are the boss.

They can help us sort of communicate that message. So yeah, it's, it's an ever

an ongoing kind of, um, project, I suppose.

Yeah,

[00:35:36] Host: Definitely. And, um, I guess if you then want to take on another go and start growing even further, you've, you've got those challenges there, right? Where you have to start going through a bit of a

hiring, hiring process as

[00:35:49] Business Owner: well.

Yeah. And geographically we struggle with that. Um, what we've not managed to do yet is really embrace remote working.

Mm-hmm. Um, we do have some of the team who work from home some days a week, so we've got hybrid roles.

Yeah. But a lot of our roles are.

Office based or building based, warehouse printing, et cetera. So, you know, can't be done from home. Um, and because we've got a central space, it does make sense for a lot of people to come in.

And actually, after COVID, we gave everyone the option, you know, do you want to c come back? And everyone's like, yes, we wanna be back in the office. So that was great. But because we've had that and because the team are quite happy to come in, we've sort of not been forced to look at remote options and.

I do then worry about how we build that remote culture alongside our office-based team

[00:36:43] Host: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, definitely. And you, you come across like you are in a very steady position, right?

You've, you've, you've had your, um, you've got your col coach. You seem quite steady, I guess, and the business is in a, in a good place.

[00:36:58] Business Owner: Mm-hmm.

[00:36:59] Host: Is there anything that, like in terms of

[00:37:01] Business Owner: of

next

steps

[00:37:02] Host: scares you?

[00:37:04] Business Owner: No,

I don't think so.

[00:37:09] Host: Yeah.

[00:37:09] Business Owner: Yeah.

Yeah. I think,

go. Kind of going back to what I was saying earlier about, you know, we could have grown more quickly, but we wouldn't be on the foundation that we are now. I think we have done it slow, we've done it steady. We've built a good name for ourself in the industry.

My husband's got, you know, a good name for himself and good reputation. With suppliers, with customers. We've got a really, really good solid foundation that I think we could go on to build anything from.

and that's

[00:37:39] Host: the

part that I love. It's, It's, you've got

that foundation, right? I think Yeah.

And, uh, I mean, you see some businesses that scale rapidly and they often scale rapidly and there's zero infrastructure. There all processes in place. And it's just a complete, it's chaos often, and you see high turnover and everything. And it seems that you've, you've created this really good, steady found foundation, strong business that now you can just, um.

Sort of

grow even, even further.

[00:38:10] Business Owner: Yeah, and I think.

As well. I needed that to align with what I wanted the business to be, which was creating job opportunities for people in Northamptonshire that. Are are flexible. Mm-hmm. So, again, it's always working with the team that gives me the buzz. Yeah. You know, we've created jobs that I think most of our team are on.

Some kind of structure that's not a nine to five mm-hmm. That it works for, for them and their lifestyle. And that's what I wanna create more of. You know, I'm a mom with two kids and a very busy life. I work the hours that suit that lifestyle. I want to give that back to other people. I wanna give those opportunities.

I think if we had this sort of crazy kind of growth startup where it was just like, no, we need all hands on deck every single day. You know, we wouldn't be able to offer

that. And it takes a certain type of person that can work in that environment as well. That kind of startup environment. Yes. Um. And yeah, I'm not sure how easy those people are to find, especially in Northamptonshire.

[00:39:13] Host: yeah, Yeah,

definitely. And as you say, it's, it requires different people depending on sort of where, where the business is at and how the business is growing and, and talking about that.

You know, if we go back to your earlier days with the sandwich business, if I, if you, if I were to

[00:39:29] Business Owner: say to you,

[00:39:30] Host: would you open.

A sandwich shop

And if you did not. know,

[00:39:35] Business Owner: No way.

Sorry. The

[00:39:37] Host: the question was

you wouldn't do that.

What if

I said

right,

if you were to open one again, what would, what would the

changes be that you would've made?

[00:39:46] Business Owner: I would stick to my vision and I would get really, really clear on my vision and why I wanted to do it and what kind of what my USP is.

I see some other people like this. I was probably. Also a few years too early in what I was trying to do, you know, organic ingredients, locally sourced ingredients. You know, my sandwiches were around the four pound 50 mark and the co-op over the rope, or selling them for one pound 50. You know, people couldn't get their heads around that.

So I think now would be an easier time to do something like that.

Um,

but yeah, being very, very clear on my vision and. Being able to sell it. That was also my challenge is I wasn't very comfortable being the front person and going, no, this is what I'm doing. This is why I'm doing it, and this is why I'm charging what I'm charging.

[00:40:39] Host: Yeah, definitely. Do you

have, um, any regrets from, um,

or do you regret ever

[00:40:48] Business Owner: opening

[00:40:49] Host: it

or,

[00:40:50] Business Owner: no, I'm glad I did it when I did it. Mm-hmm. Because the alternative might have been that I did that as more of a route into retirement, and I think that could have been quite mentally and financially catastrophic.

Um, yeah, at least this way. I did it when I was young, you know, it didn't hold us back at all. We had the opportunity to, you know, make the money back up. So. In that sense, I, you know, I don't regret it. I scratched that itch. I gave it a go. I learned a lot about all the things I'm really not very good at. Um, and that was, and that also that I don't want to work solely for myself.

Mm-hmm.

[00:41:30] Host: You

[00:41:30] Business Owner: You know, I don't want to be the only person running the

[00:41:33] Host: And I find that really interesting that you're very, you're very clear in, in what you, you want.

Now in terms, you mentioned values, but also you're clear on your strengths. And even at the start of the conversation, you said you'd rather be sort of an employee and you, you don't want to work alone, which is, um, I think is a great thing to, to be clear on. From the start, because I think that's the part where if you're not clear on that, sometimes you can, um, lose sight of, of where you're going or realize,

actually I need people around me for this to work.

[00:42:04] Business Owner: Yeah. I think. Entrepreneurship. You know, there, there will be people like my husband who's like, I don't wanna be accountable to anybody and is quite happy making decisions and not running them past, you know, other people. But that wasn't me. But I didn't realize that that wasn't me until I was in that position.

And you kind of look around and you go, oh. There's nobody here but me. So really understanding yourself before you kind of make that step, I think is really

[00:42:35] Host: Yeah, Definitely. Because that goes on to my, my, my key question that I ask everybody is like, if you were To

To speak to your younger self, whether it was your younger self going into a sandwich shop or before that, or going into the ID card center, what would that, what would that piece of advice be

that you would give young self,

[00:42:54] Business Owner: believe in yourself, um, and never stop learning.

[00:42:57] Host: And, and just on

that, believing yourself, do you feel like, have you always found

that

[00:43:03] Business Owner: that of challenge as in really having that self-belief? You can make something happen.

Yeah. Despite having evidence that I can do that, I still, even to this day, struggle with that.

You know, like I was saying about the team and, you know, wanting to support them and mentor them and encourage them. But then I might come out for a meeting and I'll be like, who am I to give advice? And it's like, no, no, no. Then I have to kind of talk to myself and go, 'cause you've done it. Um, so yeah, it's, it's a daily, daily battle.

[00:43:35] Host: because I think that's, that's typically what happens. Most people will hear, like for, for example, you speaking today, you seem very clear on your direction and where you are at,

but you are still

navigating

your own challenges with self-belief.

[00:43:50] Business Owner: Yeah. Yeah.

[00:43:52] Host: And I guess that's where it comes, like you mentioned about LinkedIn, which is always an interesting one, that love, love, hate relationship because that, that plays, plays with, um, you know, the self-belief as well when you've got people sort of shouting and blowing their own trumpets and then you are going through a bit

of a stage where you are questioning your self.

[00:44:11] Business Owner: Yeah. That's why, you know, I'm very much a lurker on social media. You know, I'm, I'm not, you won't see me out there posting or, you know, putting my thoughts up there, um, for that very reason.

[00:44:21] Host: Mm.

[00:44:22] Business Owner: But

yeah, it's something I do continue to work on. And, um, yeah, learning is something that I'm just. Always

is that

like

with,

with

learning,

[00:44:32] Host: what sort of, do you listen to podcasts? Are you

reading books?

[00:44:36] Business Owner: Love podcasts? Mm-hmm.

Um, sometimes I just kind of like almost do a bit of a free wheel and see what comes up and I'm like, well, that's obviously what I'm meant to listen to today.

Um, but yeah, absolutely love podcasts and um, yeah, audio books. So I am not very good at reading nonfiction, so I. Read fiction, listen to the audio. Kind of like business books and books on communication and all that kind of stuff. Yeah.

[00:45:03] Host: Well,

I think,

I love,

I've

loved our

[00:45:05] Business Owner: our,

[00:45:06] Host: today because for, for me, you've, you. Gone through a

real,

I know we talk about the

word journey but a journey of self discovery

in the sense of really sort of understanding, as you say, your why, which continues to evolve, but really understanding and playing to your strengths of like, you know, sort of all from the days, as you mentioned, from opening up your, your sandwich shop to, to where you are today.

And you, you have that successful business and you're

[00:45:31] Business Owner: steady

[00:45:32] Host: are, you are ready to go. I guess

I'm saying ready to go

[00:45:36] Business Owner: Yeah. Yeah. It probably feels like, you know, we've had a little plateau.

[00:45:40] Host: Yeah. we've

[00:45:40] Business Owner: had a period of just sort of calm and now we're ready to. To go again.

[00:45:45] Host: So, so it's been

awesome. So thank you

so much for coming on today. I've loved catching up and hearing your

story

and know we're gonna

have another catch up very, very

shortly. so thank you once again for sharing your story. It's really inspirational and just, I love the fact of how, and I'm gonna take a takeaway this away.

Your boundaries and how you've stuck to them I think is something that's really important and actually is very

challenging for many people. So thank you

[00:46:10] Business Owner: You're welcome. I think it's important to kind of.

Get that across because, you know, as women we try and do too much and we try and do it all. And you know, the more people that can say, actually you can't do it all. Um, and someone shared with me once, say, uh, to don't list and we should all be sharing our lists of all the things that we don't do. Um, because yeah, you know, it, it just kind of highlights, you know, the things that we, we, we are kind of not juggling, if you

[00:46:36] Host: yeah, definitely. And I know I

was about to

close there, but

I just wanna jump No, I wanna jump on that is you just raised a brilliant point just.

Sometimes as as moms and

we are not, is to remember that we're not, we don't need to be super women. And I think that's often people look at, you know, if you are a business owner, a female business owner, you, you, you, you're juggling parenting and everything. You know, we don't have those, you know, you are not su we are not super women.

We're juggling it all. And, uh, it's okay to let things drop or fall or, you know, as you say, we're only human.

[00:47:11] Business Owner: Yeah. once

again

Thank

you. and thank you everyone

[00:47:15] Host: for listening today.