No Fear, No Ceiling: Neil Sweeney on Scaling Businesses & Finding Clarity After Exit

In this episode of Your Mind Your Business, host Carina McLeod from eCommerce Nurse, sits down with Neil Sweeney, Managing Director of Carmel Jane Photography and EOS Implementer at EOS Worldwide, to uncover how fearless entrepreneurship and clear vision fuel long-term business success.

Neil shares his journey from living in his in-law’s garage to building and selling a national company, and how he found new purpose through EOS and Carmel Jane Photography.

Chapters:
[00:00:00] Starting From a Garage — The First Leap into Entrepreneurship
[00:05:00] Building “Secure”: Grit, Growth, and Guts
[00:19:30] The Exit — Lessons from Selling a Business
[00:26:00] Finding Purpose After Success: EOS & Clarity
[00:31:00] Scaling Carmel Jane Photography and Leadership Without Limits
[00:43:00] No Fear, No Ceiling — The Entrepreneurial Mindset

💡 Topics Covered:
✅ From corporate agent to fearless entrepreneur — Neil’s humble beginnings in a garage

✅ Building a national company with grit and creativity

✅ The power of partnership: finding your “ying to your yang” in business

✅ Why action beats perfection — and how to move faster on opportunities

✅ Navigating the emotional aftermath of selling your business

✅ Discovering EOS (Entrepreneurial Operating System) and helping others scale

✅ Applying clarity, systems, and culture at Carmel Jane Photography

✅ Why there’s “no ceiling” for driven entrepreneurs

🔥 Best Quotes:
💬 “I took it all the way back to ground zero so I could set up this new business… no direction, no plan, but loads of want, loads of grit, loads of fire.”

💬 “We’re not here long — let’s get on with it. There’s no fear, no ceiling.”

💬 “If you own a business, run a company — get clarity, get people, get data. That’s where real growth lives.”

🔔 Don't forget to like, subscribe, and hit the notification bell to stay updated with more episodes of Your Mind Your Business!
 
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Transcript

I remember we moved out of our house, we moved into my in-law's garage and we converted it so we could live in that.

So I was living in that with my wife and the two children. It was a good garage. I mean, we shut the doors up and we put heating in there. Like, you know, we put carpet down after a while. You could sleep there, but we took it all the way back

to ground zero so I could set up this new business, which was then Securo.

And just went on this journey. No direction, no plan, but loads of want, loads of grit,

loads of fire, and there is definitely an opportunity of light. So that's what I went and did.

 Welcome to your mind, your business, the podcast that dives into the real grit of entrepreneurship. I'm your host, Karina McLeod, CEO, and founder of e-Commerce Nurse, an e-commerce growth agency, and I have a special guest today, Neil Sweeney from Carmel Jane Photography.

Welcome, Neil.

Hey, good morning. I'm sorry I'm a bit late.

that's alright.

Yeah, we're here. Amazing.

We're, we're calm. We're calm. So I guess everyone's like, who's Neil? So I'm gonna hand it over

Yeah. Do you know what I think? What a great question in terms of just as a start of who even am I, um, professionally, um, you know, this word entrepreneur, you know, I suppose it's the modern word now, right? But, um, I am one of those chaotic. Dysfunctional, uh, non-consistent kind of characters, but I do have an eye for certain things.

Um, and so over my journey in my work life in who am I there, then I am an entrepreneur, I suppose by spirit. Um, I'm. I'm involved in, I'm a managing director of what is Carmel Jane Photography. That is a high volume school photography business. Um, yeah, it's, it's, uh, we work with over 300,000 heads through a season, 600 plus schools, so really busy business.

Um, and also I'm an implementer of what is known as EOS entrepreneurial operating system. So I help other companies just get a grip of their business and fly. So they're my two sort of professional ventures. Yeah.

Yeah. And, uh, I'm sure I'll be picking your brain later on the EOS, so, um, but I'm guessing, you know, when I speak with a number of guests, sometimes that entrepreneurial spirit wasn't necessarily obvious at the start. So if we hit rewind and go. Back to the very, very start of your entrepreneurial journey, what does, what does that look like for you?

Yeah. Um, I, the, I guess my starting ground, my university, I'm not an academic, never was, uh, I mean, you know, this dyslexic thing, which is very common, very popular. It wasn't really quite diagnosed. Back when I was at school, but I, I was in the special class, so I was in with Mrs. Bauer, three of us in the class going thinking, why am I in this, why should I be here?

But it's probably because if I'm not interested, I'm out. It's just as simple as that. That's just how my mind is. If I'm passionate, I'm excited, I'm interested by it, I'm all in. Um, and so within that, my then journey, I was pro into property. Um, because I suppose my. My character, my personality was really I could shine in that kinda space.

So my early days of my university was in property. Um, and from there it was commercial agency and I think that in actual factory now, that was my best footing because I spent 15 years in. Talking to commercial owners, investors, landlords, tenants moving in, what they're looking to do, they're growing. So every day I'm talking to commercially minded people, so not even knowing it.

That was a really good university for me, and learnings of, so what are you doing? So we're expanding. We're product, we're service, customer service. We create things. We build things. We're offices, we're building, we're developers. And I just was in this really amazing network from the age of 19 18, 9, 18 years old.

And that carried on all the way up to the age of 30, um, just yet in that space. So that was my footing, that was my first part of the journey. Um, do you want me to go into a little bit about the sort of from there

Yeah, go for it. I, I guess one question went, I have on the, that part, were you working for someone or were you sort of working for yourself?

was working, so I was working in, uh, as a local agent initially from Sunny South End in Essex, in the uk. Um, the place of hopes and dreams and all that jazz. Um, and then I kind of, I just moved up and moved up into more, more regional kind of agencies. But, you know, integrating that, um, you know, the way that my mind works, I was never gonna be a surveyor.

I'm never gonna be a professional practice in terms of right now you need to go and do some exams. You need to get your Royal Institute of Charters, of as all your docs around and all that. I'm just not that guy, but in terms of people, I am that guy. So I worked really well in that. So that was probably my footing.

A regional agent commercial property. Yeah, that was really my place there.

And I guess then if we, if we move on to that, there's a part where if you are in that role, you are working for other businesses, is there that part where you are like, wanna start working for yourself?

Um, I mean, my journey through that now I get it now why they needed me to do certain things. Why they needed me to show up and be a certain person, why I needed to document certain things, why I needed to create folders and binders and, you know, we were, we were paperwork and files back then, you know, so it was.

You needed to have a code for everything and because of the nature of what the beast was. So my learnings as an employee was how to function and what to do, and saw it and always pushed against the grain. It's just my way and, but. They were very forgiving or very giving to me. 'cause they knew what I was like.

I could bring the money, I could create money, I could go and do that, but I'm just not, I can't, you know, cross t's dot i's. I don't read conditions. I don't read, you know, I don't read contracts. I'd get someone else to help me do all of that jazz. But, um, I did under, I suppose it gave me the footing understanding of what a semi kind of corporate company looked like.

'cause that's what it was. That was my last business that I was involved in as a regional agent.

So what was the next step for you then?

So in the, I suppose the last probably five years, so now I'm, I'm late twenties and I'm meeting all these people. And look, the, the thing is, is for here, Karina, like we're all learning, aren't we? I dunno what's going on. I'm sure you don't. We are just in this journey, aren't we? We're on this hustle. We're finding our way. I'm learning every day. I'm making mistakes and doing all these things, and I kind of was meeting all these other people doing the same. So I thought in actual fact, they're no different to me. And actual fact, some of the most wealthiest people, wealthiest people I know, they're no different to me.

To us, they're on the journey, they're on the learnings, but they've got certain skill sets and. I think that was probably that point that I thought I could do. I want to do something for myself. I wanna make my own mistakes. I wanna create and do and be. And so from that, that was when I set up my first business.

Um, I borrowed a desk from someone, uh, a was then client and now is a friend of mine. And I created what was Securo, So Securo was, we had all these vacant properties and we were looking after them. So I had no plan, I had no di direction. I just knew that there was an opportunity that I could go and look after these vacant buildings with a little alarm system and charge rent to the client.

So, you know, we could look after your building. So I went, do you know what? That's what I'm gonna go and do. So I left the bosom of this corporate life. They, you know, when I gave notice to my boss, I remember saying, took him for a pint and said, look, you know. I've seen this opportunity and I just wanna go and grab it.

And he went, Neil, go and get it mate. There's a seat here for you because you're a great character. You'll always make some money for us and for yourself, but go and do it. And so that was my first part out. I remember we moved out of our house, we moved into my in-law's garage and we converted it so we could live in that.

So I was living in that with my wife and the two children. It was a good garage. I mean, we shut the doors up and we put heating in there. Like, you know, we put carpet down after a while. You could sleep there, but we took it all the way back to ground zero so I could set up this new business, which was then Securo and just went on this journey. No direction, no plan, but loads of want, loads of grit, loads of fire, and there is definitely an opportunity of light. So that's what I went and did.

How did that feel? Because, you know, having that corporate part, although you hadn't burnt your bridges, you knew you could come, go back, but like giving up everything and saying, do you know what I'm going for this?

Yeah. I, it's just exciting. Just exciting. I think if the moment you can actually start to see some momentum, like I created this business from nothing. I remember my, my wife, she had a dance college and I went and got all these dance students and I put high visits on them and made them look like they were my staff.

We got photos of all these people. My brother had a, a building business and a construction company, and we got decals and we put them all over the van, so it looked like it was my business, and we got all these photos, so I created a brochure. And then when I went to the market to go, oh look, we're great.

No, no, I didn't have any staff. It was just me at that point, you know, and then started to acquire. But it was just exciting, you know? You know it's 'cause you, it's your own. Right. You know, you can go and just get on on your own terms.

you didn't ever, did you ever have any sort of thoughts because you sound really upbeat in, in somebody that's really positive. Were there any other thoughts sort of creeping in going, am am I actually crazy doing this? Or any panic, or were you just like,

Yeah. Do you know I've never had that. Yeah. And, and when I think about the road and the journey that I've had since then for the last nearly 15 years of entrepreneurialism, if you call it that, I've never felt it. And, and I think some people are, and some people are very safe. And I've got some great friends that have been in the same job for 25, 30 years, and that's cool.

Like, it's not for me, but it's cool. It's very safe. They know where they're, they're very successful, but the confines of knowing. Just what that looks like. It actually horrifies me, I think, in that sense. And it did in my old business, I thought I looked at where I could go and thought that's, I just want, I, I, I like just a blue sky.

You know? How big, well, well how fast do you wanna run? How fast do you wanna, how big do you want it to be? And it's stuff that I do now in my os when I work with clients, I, it can be 500,000 or it can be 500 million. It depe it is totally where you want to take it. And I love that kind of, you know, that, that's, that's, that's the juice for me.

I love that. Well, you can see clearly it's the fire in your. It gives you that fire in your belly to just kind of keep 

Totally. Yeah, yeah, totally. I love

I love what you say, like you just like make it out. I haven't got any staff, but like what you just went and did. 

you are. You'll fake it to make it, you are absolutely that because you, because you are that now people, some will see through it, but if you are delivering certain things, which is what we did in the early part of the business, we were delivering. I mean, I, I had seven hats.

I'm a salesman on operational. I'm finance, I'm, I'm doing them. The tech, I'm trying to fit these cameras. I, I'm everywhere. I had three change of clothes in the van. I turn up in the van, I put a tweed suit on. Go and have a meeting, get back on hard hat goes on, go onto site like you were every 'cause you had to be, but I'm fine.

I was fine with that. Right. You know, I, I, I'm doing it.

And how did you manage that? 'cause you sort of said when you were in your corporate role, like doing all the kind of the filing, the fold, you know, all those sort of bits and where you can lose interest. How do you manage that when you've got seven different hats on? So I'm guessing there are some roles that you took that you were like, oh my God, this is not me.

yeah, I, I, I've, I've always believed and always known it, and it's a big thing for me now, it's just get people around you get them quickly. And that part is I recruited, I got my business partner very early on in the business. Um, and he bought into the company with his van. He threw a two and a half thousand pound box or course van in 'cause we needed a van, right?

So he's like, okay. And, but he was the ying to my yang. Was perfect. He was methodical. Quite technical, you know, he liked his detail. You know, he's one of 'em guys, which is brilliant. And I'm not that guy. So actual fact, probably as a first footing off the bat, straight off the bat, that was a brilliant partnership and we never took, I took hardly any money from it for probably for the first year.

Very small amounts of money just to survive everything. Keep rolling it back up. Recruit. If we can now make, if we're doing 4,000 pound a month, right, will that get us a member of staff? Go again, go again. Keep going. Some might have gone, oh, brilliant, you know, I've got 10,000 pounds this month. Right? I can, I can take a bit and I can maybe pay the credit card off or get the sofa for the garage.

You know, whatever it might be. Where I'm like, no, that can get us another member of staff. 'cause I need to keep getting these hats away and get these people around me. I'm big into people like, and you know, I love my team, I love my team in the business. I'm mean now I've loved all my people in my teams I've had in my companies and historically, so that is big for me.

Yeah.

Yeah. And um, so I like that the fact that you got brought in a partner, as you say to the, your ying and yang as you, you know, was that because you've got an idea and you want. To go with that was did you ever have any thoughts as in, is this the right person? Because it's kind of like a marriage when you bring a 100%. 

Yeah. And it's really, really important and they can absolutely fail. Like a marriage, like a partnership, like a friendship, like all of that. They can absolutely fail. I was so lucky to just, I, I knew him anyway. Um, he was a locksmith when I was a commercial agent. He'd, he'd come and change the locks.

We had a good little relationship. We sit down the caf and have a catch up and that I knew he could be so much more and he wanted to do so much more I wanted to do. So we just, yeah. I mean, we're great friends now. We have been since all the businesses we've built and sold and so on, and, uh, it's, I'm just really lucky to have that.

yeah, definitely. And then, so you, when you're running a business, and I guess like you say, you've got all these different hats on, but you never run a business before. 

I have a clue. 

do you ever have that point where you're just like, what the hell am I doing?

Yeah, I'll do it. I say do it now three, you know, three businesses in you, just because you are on that journey all the time. But again, just, okay, I don't understand this. I dunno. The legal parts, all of our terms and contracts. Let's get a lawyer. Let's get a legal, let's get solicitor to read that. Okay, so now we need someone admin.

Okay, what does that look like? Let's get the advert out. Let's find someone. I found a fantastic, well she. Uh, Carly, her name was, came in to be what was a kind of a PA to us. Turned out that she was fantastic. All operational, running the business in terms of all the methodical paperwork. Brilliant. Now we need engineers.

Let's put it out there. Let's get great engineers to work for us. Lots of hiring, firing, moving, shifting, rewarding, recognizing, but that's where I put a lot of my effort into my people and the team. I just keep growing it. Yeah.

And how do you find, like you mentioned, the hiring and firing part because it's all great when you're a people person. When people are doing a great job and everything's going sort of well, but then there are hard times right with people where actually. They can't stay in the business any, any longer.

How do you, do you manage that part?

learnings. I always see the best in people. I always think, oh, okay, maybe.

Hmm.

We all have blimps in our life. We have bumps and bumpy roads and things that go on in our world. It's just what we do and think, oh, maybe if I just give 'em another chance, or we just do that and you let it run and you like, that'd been okay this month and you let it go, but.

I believe now having recruited, um, and, you know, tens to hundreds of people, I imagine through those years, is there is something that you feel, there's a feeling that you just go, C, can I sit with them? Do they, do they, you know, do they work well? Could I serve them as a, you know, as a leader, can I serve them?

And, and how are they gonna be as we evolve and grow? But roles. Outgrow people, you know? So in our earlier part of the business, when the business was doing a hundred grand a year, it's just everyone get, just get your hands on deck, right? Let's just keep messing. But when it goes to then three, four, 5 million pound a year, it's a very different business.

So that role will just, sometimes it just exceeds someone. But if you've got the right people. With the right personality, the right attitude, the right being. They're just someone that you want on your bus, on the bench. Yeah. There's always a seat for 'em. You just want them in the business you will find. So something will work.

Yeah. Um, and I've kind of worked to that. That's been my way.

Have you ever sort of looked back at any decisions that you've made in the past that you're like, based on where I'm at now, I'd do that differently?

Yeah. I think, um, take action even quicker. Was one. Just do it more. Just do it. Just go at it quicker. I think, um, there was a couple of big moves that I could have and should have taken. It's hindsight.

Beautiful old thing there isn't it? Lovely thing hindsight. Do you know it's the hindsight. Well, I could tell you what the lottery tickets were.

Lumbers were last week. It's all the hindsight, isn't it? And. For me, it's, if I do look back, there's not been regrets, but there's definitely been, I probably could have done that and that should have, and that's all actually a rolled around taking action quicker. Yeah, because I've actually, the things that I've seen, they were opportunities and I, and I just, something stopped me and, and I know I actually could have got over that.

'cause you can get over so much if you just turn your head to it and 

Yeah. And you say something stopped you, is that you getting in your own way or something more external?

both. Um, so I'll give some example, I'll put some context around it. Um, one, so in Securo, which is my first business there was we, we are flying now, we're starting, you know, great guns. It's moving and there's, what is this little lic and it's, it's a little, a little unit that sits and you put it out on site and there's a competitor that was just starting to do it.

And I remember seeing them and this was. Early in our journey, a year or two into the business. I remember thinking, that is brilliant, that it's a unit. You can put them in the van, they look great. They all, you know, they, they just look brilliant. We need to fabricate them and put them out rather than fitting these cameras up on poles and units and so on.

We messed about, we faffed about, I got to fabricators. I just got way laid and didn't do it. That was that company 10 Xed our business and I saw them absolutely hockey stick and fly because they could deploy these systems really quick. So that was a definite regret. I should have just gone at that and taken action.

I knew it was a thing even though a business was very successful that could have worked. Um. Hotel in Iha. I found I, I, I've always wanted a hotel. I've always wanted, and I love iha. I love the lyrics and all of that. Um, and I had some really good conversations striking these conversations up. Spoke to. I had a really good contact out there.

Anyway, I managed to find this hotel. It had been in the family for 30 years. It was just outside San Antonio. Really cool space. I, I had the design, I had the numbers. We went through the whole paperwork. I said, that is a great opportunity. Good money for what it was. I end up going, oh, I've just got stuff on.

No, I'll leave it. Well, three months later, you know, it was bought by the Mabo brothers and they've kitted it out and made it into what is exactly what I said. That could have been, and it, and it's just these, and you're like, oh, should have done that. Yeah. So they're not a regret, but they're kind of, should have taken action, could have done that.

But there's loads of these little things, but equally I've made decisions and things it like, great. We did do that. 

yeah, yeah, exactly. And sometimes it's like you say, you were like, oh, well I'll get onto that. So is it then, is the passion, like you've got the idea, but how much is that passion? Because for with the sense of urgency of, oh, I'll put it to one side.

And that's it. Because you've only got so many hours in the day. You are working on one thing, which is growing and it's working. And I guess that for me it's sometimes I, like, I love shiny things. I get excited by the early stuff. I'm 80 20, I'm all out 80. I never finished the 20% off. So I need that person to pick the 20% up for me.

And so with that it's, I can see an opportunity, I can get it to a place. Now I need someone else to carry it forward, you know, to actually roll that. And that's just my personality.

But you've been, you've been really successful. So you, you, your business, your security business, you, you grew it to a certain

Yep, Yep, yep, Grew that nationally. Um, and then we did the exit, or that, the exit was always kind of in the last five years was, okay, well what does it look like? What does even do? We wanna sell it? Yeah. How much money do we need? Like, what happens next? And all these things. And you know, that, you know, if I could pass a, a learning that I've had is I never really knew what I wanted to do next.

I just kind of was like. Okay, should we sell it? What does it look like? And we started getting some advice around that. And it was in the pandemic. And I ended up reaching out to, um, uh, to one of the largest security companies in Europe. COVID was here. We flew to, um, Sweden, 'cause it was the only place you could meet at that time.

Had our meat, next thing under offer business was sold. And yeah, it was quite a quick process. Um, do I regret selling it? I've been asked that same question. Yes and no.

No. Yes I do because it's such a fantastic business. We have amazing people in it. Um, no, because it's just giving me my next chapter. Yeah.

And now life is a book and I need to just keep throwing chapters 

in, you know? You know, I don't want to stay in the same role like we said

Yeah. Yeah, definitely. Was that the plan at the start when you set it up?

When I very first set it up, I always have the end in mind. And it's something both a friend of both of our James Sinclair, I remember sitting in a, in something that he did years and years ago and it was such a great nugget. Just, just have the end in mind. So I was always working to what does a business need to look like, the systems, the process, the client base, our logistics, the funding, the finance, all of these things.

'cause if I do wanna sell it, it needs to be kinda be oven ready or near two. So it was always, it was the end in mind. But then when we started to actually talk about where do we go, what do we do? What's it worth? How much money do you really need? Uh, you know, and what do you do with that? You know, if you, if you at that point we're earning, well, you know, we're having our holidays.

I'm not that materialistic. I don't need all these great things around us. So then what is it that you are gonna do? Yeah. You know, and I think it just went deeper for me there. 

definitely. So you, you're starting your, your, you are on your next chapter, but just before we go onto your next chapter, actually, you know, it sounds like your business went like completely just on a upward trajectory.

Yeah.

Were there any ebbs and flows and moments where you are just like the troughs, like when things drop and you're like, this is not what I

yeah, I think, um, we built another business in between that. I, I founded a company, urban Life, which was a, uh, property management company, and we scaled that, and that was in the same offices. We scaled that for about six years, and we sold that. What, what I struggled with there. I'm now trying to serve two companies, be two people.

People are seeing that one day I'm coming in, oh, I've got, I've got a meeting about that, or I'm over, I'm in London about urban life. I'm, that, that didn't quite work, didn't quite fit, um, just for a number of different dynamics. Um, so I suppose my learning from that is if and when and as I. Build businesses.

If I'm looking to acquire a whole different business in a whole different space, I need to make sure that I'm really clear what my roles are. I've got the right people in that. So you imagine it, I'm building a business, it's scaling. People are looking at me, I'm leading and helping and supporting. And I'm like, oh, by the way, I've got a whole new idea.

And I think it's like, right, okay. What you doing over there? So, um, that was quite trying. Yeah. People, people, I mean. We are a beautiful thing. We've been around for 300,000 years. We're a funny old being, aren't we? You know, and I'm never gonna, I'm, I mean, I'm learning myself, you know, I'm changing, I'm evolving, we are changing.

And you've just really, you've got to continue working on your team and people. You need people around you if you're gonna build a business. Yeah. Full stop. It's as simple as that. So with that, then it's really making sure you've got those right people and nurturing and you know, and having that, that's been a one.

And some people just have absolutely blown me away with, I just didn't see it. I did not see you like this. Yeah. I always put it to like the big brother thing the first week. Everyone's quite polite,

aren't they? Oh, yeah, 

We're all getting on. We've a great time. Watch it in eight weeks. Yeah, they're throwing plates and pans at each other and all just because you start to see the real person.

And I think that happens in work as well, isn't it? Oh, you know, and I've done it time and time again and I'll, it will happen again. 

Yeah. Well, you've, so when you sold your business, did you buy, was it Carmel Jane photography, or is there a, a part in the middle

Yeah. So, um, I sold urban life, um, the property management that was about two and a half thousand units we had in that. And I sold that very easy thing to sell and move. Um, and we just sold that 'cause it, it, it just didn't fit with what our plans. Um, and then Securo agreed and sold that. Um. And I kind of hit a bit of a trough.

I was like, I don't, where do I wanna go? What do I want to do? In the buildup to the sale of Exit Ofo is what I then started to read the book Traction that came into play. Um, that's now a big part of a really big part of my life. Um, because I love helping people. I love business. I'm curious, I wanna help there.

And it was a perfect fit that when I then soldo, I found out that you could be an implementer. What is Traction? The book that I read a little bit around Traction, it's um, it's a brilliant book because it's an easy book and I love simple things. Simplicity. I can read it, I get it. You can take a nugget out and put it in your company.

And I did that. So I put a couple of these things into the business and they just worked and I was like, that's really effective. And then when I sold. I then learned that you could become an implementer of, what is the book Traction? It's called EOS is what's in It, entrepreneur Operating System. And I learned that you could actually teach people how to put that in their company to get a grip to scale better and just become a healthier, better business.

I was like, that's a perfect fit for me. I've, you know, I've got the scars, I've learned the grit, I've got all of that. Now I can bring that. And with this blueprint of what has been around for 20 years to how to really control a company and get everyone in kind of a holistic way, everyone moving in the direct direction was like, that is dreamy.

So that's what I then became, flew to Dallas, went on this bootcamp, learn it it all. And that's, you know, that's a big part of what I do now. Um, and I've been doing that now for two and a half years, along with my other interests with Carmel Jane Photography. And, um, yeah, that's, that's been fantastic. It's made me a better person as

Yeah. Yeah, Well, your hats off to finding that, because I think that you say when you have an exit in mind, that's the focus, focus, focus, focus. And then all of a sudden you are, you are running at a hundred miles per hour, and then 

I'm guessing it stops. 

Well, you are into fitness, right? Yeah. I'm watching you. I'll tell you, if you are not in mud ponds, you're running, you're on the bike, you're running, you're lifting, you're, so when you do an event, you've got this prep, this train, haven't you, like everything's in your whole lifestyle is, is focused on that.

And then you do the event. There is a moment of euphoria 'cause you're like achievement 

Yeah. 

you feel the week after?

Oh, I always have a come 

Yeah. Right. So it's just what happens. Imagine doing that. Imagine training for event for a decade. Imagine a training for Holt for 10 years for this event, and the next thing you know, in three months the sales happened.

It's like it's so quick. And you're all right. It's there. And I remember listening to a Steve Bartlett, um, podcast and when he sold his company, obviously for 10 x in what my company sold for, but the, it's still the same feeling is he just said in his words, and it's so true. You climb this mountain, you just think there's gonna be this confetti celebration.

I like, oh, I've got there. And, and then it's like. Actually, in fact, yes, there's money in the bank, but I've always been okay, like the last years, you know, I've got a car, I can have a holiday, go for dinner. You know, I can, I can do what, we're very lucky in this part of the world we're in. So now what? And I just had that big trough.

Yeah. Um, and I think that, so now again, when I work with clients on EOS deep diving, like where do you want to go? What's the vision? You know, which, I'll go into a little bit more about that in a moment. But that, so it's just really making sure that. If you are looking to sell, that's awesome. Or you are looking for an exit.

Well, okay. And what and why? 

What's the why behind it?

Yeah, definitely. So you, you, you sell your business, you're going through a little bit of a down, how long, how did you manage it? Because you seem, as I said earlier, you're very positive, so I'm getting upbeat. So I'm guessing when you were feeling that that was kind of a, a big deal 

that's very 

different for, you know, 

Oh my God. Yeah. I mean, we bought a farm, so we've moved out the garage and that's a result. Now we bought a farmhouse and it was always a promise that when I said to the family, look, once I build and create this, I'll be able to buy the things that. I want us to get to the comforts that we need.

So we bought a farmhouse and bits, and at the back of the farm is a piggery. And I remember I sort of a month into it, I've got my wheelbarrow. I'm thinking, oh, I can, I can mess about in the piggery and I can, and I'm mucking out and clear it. And I just, it's like a Wednesday afternoon, like, what am I doing here?

Mm.

Why am I here? I'm in James Martin, another friend of ours. He did a podcast and recently he said one about he sold his business and he bought these Mercedes ourselves, these beautiful old classic Mercedes. And he's gone to this Goodwood Classic show and he's looked at himself in the mirror with his tweed cap and he's, and just thought, what are you doing here?

And I had the client the same things, like, I've got so much to give. Um, and it was a very quick catalyst that. That was the EOS was like, right, that's where I want to go. And just really sort of stepped into that. 

Yeah.

so the, you've got the EOS, which I guess is more from a consultancy, you as an individual, and then you've got the Carmel Jane photography,

So, um. EOS that's happening. Um, that's flying, that's great.

That's working. And Carmel, Jane, I've known her for a long time in networking events and dues and so on. Over the period we got chatting. She came to me some advice about, okay, what does the exit look like? What do I look for? And I said, well, let's get together. I have a cup of tea, and we'll just go through the numbers.

And, you know, look, first base is what's it worth and if, what is it worth? What do you want? You know, how does it all stack? So we went through that journey. She had someone interested in it and I was like, cool. I had never had, I mean, I can't hold a camera, so, so I was never, and also I'd just done an exit with lots of people, lots of teams and just actual fact, yeah, just time out.

EOS, that's just me now. Worked with people. Enjoyed the journey with that. Great. So it fitted, so this was, this just came around the corner, um, and sat with Carmel and. She didn't quite fit with this particular individual that was looking to buy it. And I remember we taking Duke, my dog for a walk and then rung her up and just said, look, I'd love to get around a table around that, because I think it's a really exciting opportunity.

And like an entrepreneur, we see the shiny things and we go, right, and that, and that was the birth of that conversation. Um, six months later I'd bought half the business. Um, so Carmel was my partner. I've then come in with my dynamic. I know nothing about the industry. I know nothing about photography, but I do know about people and about systems and processes and what we should look for.

And I do think that brings a huge value as well. Those sort of things. So like as a passing, learning, be up, like be right over your business. Don't be in it 'cause you're just being it like everyone else. Get someone else to be in it.

Yeah.

But that's if you want to be that person again, I wanna be 50,000 foot, I wanna be at the top.

Okay, have we got the right pit? Have we got the financing? Do we need a big facility? Do we need more contracts, more schools, more clients, more What's the sales dynamic like? What's the operational dynamic? We've got AI in the company. Like what All of that. And that's up here, isn't it? Yeah. If I was on the ground taking the photos, it's great, but that's what, that's just my job.

Yeah.

and I think that's fascinating because you, you, your first business was very much what you knew and it, or it was, there was slight, some slight correlation right. To what you were previously doing, whereas photography completely different.

totally.

And it's also a business that you are not starting up. It is all, it is a, a mature state, I guess.

Yeah. that's a, Yeah.

So how do you then, you know, if you've gone from startup, I guess you've gone to some element of maturity in your last business, but it's a different landscape

totally different landscape. So this is where I want to twin my two things, because this is where hopefully there'll be some learnings here. So in EOS, there's six key components you need to strengthen to get. Like a, a company on rocket fuel. So the first is vision. I need to ensure that I've got the entire leadership team at that first.

It's your first base that we are 100% clear where we want to go. Where does it wanna go in 10 years? What does it wanna look like? And then great. Okay. And then we want to crystallize it. What do it want it to look like in three years? 'cause you can get to 36 months. It's a bit more tangible. You can get, you can start to see it.

Then you break it back and you go, okay, what do you want to do this year? Then what do we need to action? Do we need to take this year to go there in three to 10 years? And you just break it down And it's first part is getting, making sure that if you ask your leadership team, where's the business going?

That they have an answer. You know, it's the same thing. I mean, and for you, with your team and your staff and for the people that you work with, you know, if you was to, if they were to ask their team, leadership team just at the minute, where's the company going? Do they know is the first thing? Most of the time it is.

No. They're like, no, we don't really know. Maybe this year, maybe the six months they might have that picture, but definitely not long. So it's getting that part because, uh, that is the birth of going, I know what I'm here to do.

Hmm.

Is your company 500,000 or 500 million?

Yeah.

It's irrelevant. It can totally be the number, but they look, they both are very, very different.

And we've gotta go really all gear on for 500 million if we want to, but that's fine. 'cause there are 500 million companies, pound companies. So it's that part, then it's the people. So once you're clear with the vision, then it's your people. You've gotta get the right people in the right business, in the right seat.

And what I was talking about earlier about getting these right people. So now I've come into Carmel, Jane learning what I've learned. I'm like, right, have we got the right people? What are they like? Do we just, do they all fit? Not everyone always fits and you just, you know, you're trying in how that works.

But are they the right person and are they in the right seat? They've got to be together, right person. How they show up, they've got the right values, their behavior, but they're actual, they know what to do. They get the role they want, the role. They've got the capacity to deal with this seat. 'cause sometimes roles exceed them.

They've got to be together. So there's work that we do there. Then it's the part where it's the data, love data now, like track your data weekly. Do we actually, oh, do we know what our numbers are? Yeah. Our weekly numbers. So are they all correlating and does every, is everyone clear on what that looks like?

And then with that, even with data, making sure that everyone in the business that they've got a number on their head. Not because I'm going, well, I wanna know. Mm-hmm. But because everyone now, once we are now sharing the vision with everyone, everyone's like, yeah, do you know what, I'm a part of this. Yeah.

I wanna contribute.

Yeah.

Karina, I need from you three BLE grommets a week. 'cause you know we're gonna grow to that. You are going, yeah, okay, let's do it. So I'm getting now data from everyone and I'm, now I understand my business. I'm starting to get a really good feel of it. And then there's something that we do, which is all these issues.

Every company's got hundreds of issues all the time. They're everywhere, aren't they? They're just there. They're gonna come in the door tomorrow, come on when you come. Welcome them in. But I don't want them to be in and put 'em under the carpet. Because I'm busy or because we're busy because that issue is what we call it that's gonna affect something.

Someone somewhere. Yeah.

So we need to put a shiner light on it. And there's a, we, there's a method that I use and a way that we work that I, with all of my team, I'm always like, any issues? Are you good? Like, not an issue with a frown. Oh, shut the door. Like, good. Has he got it? What have you got? Yeah. Like, brilliant.

What was it? Oh, well that's not quite working. Brilliant. Okay. What are we doing? So I'm trying to get their mindset to welcome them in, get the stuff through. Then it's our processes. Which is the fifth one. Got a couple more and then we're done on this part, but it, it encapsulates it all. The process is you've got to have clear processes.

Everything's got to be aligned there through the whole business because it makes it healthier, happier, more functional. So that's, again, 50,000 feet. What are our processes? How does that whole journey look from taking a photo to our sales journey, to the photography, to our printing? You know, it's a, it's a very, very busy business.

Things are moving all the time. Just make sure it's linear, it's illustrative, and then we clear it with everyone. Just make sure everyone's on the same track, so make sure the processes are clean and clear. They've got to be documented and followed. It's just what we do, but simple. I don't wanna binder. I don't want a seven, 700 page binder.

I'm not McDonald's, but I do need a very clean stepped process. And then the final bit is the traction. And the traction is how we have our meetings to have really, really good meetings. And there's something that we do, which is called rocks, which is our priorities. Everyone has priorities in the business that they go, right, I know what I need to go and do for the next 90 days.

So all of that together. Brings down, which is what this EOS model, but if you work on all of them six key components, oh God, you have such a good business.

It's amazing because 

what you've been talking about, if we go back to your twenties and you're in this corporate world and, and it's more about managing people. You didn't wanna get sort of involved in that. You weren't getting involved in that sort of detail. Then you go to a business that you're just starting up and now you've purchased a business where you've learned so much and it's like all of this can now be applied to this business where that's already big.

In, in that industry, but you can see that with some tweaks and everything with what you're doing. 

It can be so much more functional. You know, like we say, we've been on this planet for 300,000 years. We're trying to work ourselves out. Still AI's coming through. Ooh, it's ai. AI's been around for 50 years. I mean, in the earlier days when it was a little chess, a chess system, working stuff out, remember that would've been a, well, now it's the, you know, it's a generational ai, which has been around for only five years.

Primarily it's people, right? We're still about the people I get. We need the systems and AI and all of these smart stuff, but we've gotta be clear here. We've got to find the fire and the passion and the drive for everyone and it's not easy, but the learnings that I've had now, being able to bring that into a company to see it transform and fly it, like I've empowered the team, they are owning it and absolutely bossing that business.

And it's so, it's a joy to watch. And the same process that I use there and I have done in the company. 'cause also as well, Karina is doing that. I've kind of done a, a year or 18 months of the journey of learning, studying it, helping other clients. Now I've now acquired a company and I'm putting it in. I'm seeing it like, oh my God, this is amazing.

So, and it worked. I mean, I've got clients that some are 50 million revenue with 250 staff. It still works. Yeah. The journey and process can work for 250 staff as it can for 200 for 25 staff. It's that. It's the, it's the blueprint of it still fits. Um. And that's why I love them both, and they just totally compliment each other.

And that's a complete learning journey because if you, like you said at school you would like, no, I'm not if I'm not interested in everything. But to be able to apply all of that, there is some learning like you say for a year. So you obviously got your interest, I guess, part of running a business before.

And um, and one thing before we, before we wrap up, actually, I always like to ask guests is. If you were to go back, so if we went back like to that start of the journey, are there any things that you've learned now that you would, well, there probably is 

Yeah. My God. Yeah. What would

what would you, what would you do differently?

yeah, I think the, definitely what I've learned on the EOS side with real clarity, total clarity. You know, when someone sits there, you know, you meet sometimes someone and you think, oh, they just seem to be owning this.

Hmm.

They seem really confident and clear in their seat. You know, others are just everywhere.

That I think if I could have started off there with a lot more in clarity where I'm going to go and drafting it and clear there, I could have scouted it quicker and that would've, eeo s would've been part of that, I would've imagine. 'cause what, what, what my learnings are and probably just take action. Like, screw it. Just have a go. Just go. Keep going at it. You'll, you'll learn like you'll found, you'll learn. You know, it's what Tom Hanks, you know, is it Thou Too Shall Pass. I think that sound of You ever heard of that? It's difficult times. Thou too shall pass great times. Thou too shall pass. Like, it's okay.

You're just in this, it'll pass. Just keep moving forward, but keep going at it. 

because you said something interesting at the start. Why not at the start, but should I have sold my business or not?

Does that play on your mind now? Because obviously you've got this sort of other learnings, right? And you're like, well, could I have put E-I-E-O-S into my, uh, previous business?

Yeah, absolutely. I mean, if I knew I knew now and really put it into the business, then yeah, I could have just continued growing that. But the big part from that is, yes, it run, yes, you can draw a earnings from that, but you, it's the, it's the chunk. You can't get that, it's the, you know, it's the real cash, the next move, but.

You know, again, it's a journey, isn't it? Right?

Yeah. And I guess if, when you would, with your previous business, was it more bootstrap? 

yeah, yeah. You're just, you know, you, you, as you, as you're growing, you're investing, you're going again, you're going again, and you just keep rolling it up. Um, mo many people might not have done that. Many May, some may have hit a scene and gone, right. I'm happy with that, where I'm always about, well, how good could it be?

You know? And I'm doing it now with Car Jane Photography. You know, we've currently got three or 4% of the market. There's 33 and half thousand schools in the country, you know, so we've got so much work to do, you know? So could it be 10% of the market that's three and a half thousand schools? What would that look like if it was 10% of the market?

So these are the the places that I love to, I don't, who wants to set a ceiling? 

yeah, boring. yeah. Well, this is it. You need to 

about? 

spread your 

wings. 

so so then if we talk about Carmel 

Jane Photography, you've obviously purchased the, the, you've got half of the business now, and if you are purchasing half of a business, you obviously have a vision for a future. What, what does that look like

Yeah, so, so in where we currently are, are 600 schools at the moment. That's gonna go to 1500 schools in the next three years. So in theory, what that's gonna do is that's gonna three x the size of the business. That's a bigger facility. That's more staff that will look like a hundred photographers over the current 45 photographers.

We've got better systems, better processes. Healthier place to be. You can always keep think of. We work smart, which is the do what you do, but often we forget the healthy. How do my team show up? Are they looking forward to coming in for the day? Are they okay? Can they be open and honest? And all of these things, they're very important.

A better business of a regionally, geographically scaling that so they will be acquisition involved in that to get it to where it wants to be. And just a really good business. What that looks like in five years time. I'll look at that. Will I sell it? I'll look at that. I don't have any ambitions for that at the moment, but definitely I know that I can make this 'cause there's a market and there's a time for me to be able to make it great.

Greater, I

guess. Yeah, 

definitely. Yeah, 

completely. And does that, um, does that ever give you any like, oh, crap moments? Or is 

No. Oh, I'm so excited by it all. Yeah. 'cause you're not on the earth long enough. Are you? Really? Let's be fair. We're all gonna be forgotten about in a hundred years. So while we're here now, like, let's go and get on with it. You know? I'm just excited about that. 

I love that. I absolutely love your energy. And it's, it's, you know, because sometimes we can get in our own heads, right? Uh, I mean, I'm, I'm saying that it's probably, I should say sometimes I get in my own head a

lot. But you know, the fact that you always have that sort of positive outlook, and it's almost like no fear

yeah, yeah, yeah. It is and it is real, isn't it? Look at what we achieve as humans. Well, look at what you can

achieve. At what? Okay. If you just, even Elon Musk, that man sits there. Like I'm thinking about putting someone on Mars. If you sat, you'd be like, what? Like are you for real? But now look at what he's achieved, dropping rockets and landing them back on pods out in the ocean.

And you kind of go, maybe he can put someone on Mars

then. Do you know? And it's just because he is, there's no ceiling. There's no ceiling. 

And 

nothing's 

fear. There's no fear. There's no ceiling. Yeah. 

Yeah. 

how high do you wanna go? Like it's all cool.

I love that. I'm feeling I'm, I'm already feeling motivated sitting here,

Come on. 

I'm ready, 

to go and 

take things to the next level. So hopefully those that are listening today will have really benefited from, um, listening to you, uh, about everything. And if there are things, of course, I'll, all your details and everything will be in the descriptions on the podcast and on YouTube and everything.

So if anyone's thinking, Ooh, I wanna. Wanna tap into Neil's brain there that can, uh, reach out to you. So thank you, Neil. Appreciate it. 

It's not a plug 'cause it's not my book, but this will help people. But this is a gift from me to you. Oh. But um, I definitely, if you own a business, run a company, go out and read this 'cause it will only help 'em.

Definitely. I can imagine. I'm gonna be picking your brain now after. Thank you so much. After this podcast. So thank 

you. You've been awesome. 

see you. 

thank you everyone for listening today.