From Building Walls to Building People: Garry Staines on Purpose-Driven Growth and Grit

In this episode of Your Mind Your Business, host Carina McLeod, founder of eCommerce Nurse, sits down with Garry Staines, Managing Director of GSQ Brickwork, to dive into the raw and inspiring journey of building a multi-million-pound construction business while navigating mental health challenges, finding purpose beyond profit, and creating legacy through people.

Chapters:

[00:01:00] Introduction and Who is Garry Staines

[00:05:30] Early Days: From DJ Dreams to Bricklaying

[00:12:45] The Record Shop Era and Side Hustles

[00:18:20] The 2008 Recession and Starting GSQ Brickwork

[00:28:15] Growing from Zero to £10 Million

[00:35:40] The Panic Attack That Changed Everything

[00:42:30] Alcohol, Anxiety, and Finding Authentic Purpose

[00:52:10] Building Site Ready Solutions and Giving Back

[01:02:45] Social Media, Competition, and Staying in Your Lane

[01:10:20] Family Business and Succession Planning

[01:15:30] Final Thoughts and Life Lessons

💡 Topics Covered:

✅ The unexpected journey from mobile DJ and record shop owner to construction business leader

✅ Surviving the 2008 recession and turning redundancy into a £10 million business opportunity

✅ The reality of mental health struggles in entrepreneurship—panic attacks, anxiety, and self-medication

✅ The skills gap in construction and why collaboration beats competition

✅ Balancing growth, family involvement, and succession planning with three sons in the business

✅ Why being "just a bricklayer" is the ultimate safety net for fearless entrepreneurship

🔥 "I remember that day I was out for lunch and there was not a care in my world. Then by evening I was having this panic attack, it was the moment I probably needed to slow down and reset."

📌 If you're an entrepreneur struggling with finding purpose beyond profit, dealing with mental health challenges while building a business, or looking to create meaningful impact through training and legacy-building, this episode is for you. Garry's story proves that success isn't just about the money, it's about building people, staying authentic, and having the resilience to rebuild from zero when needed.

🔔 Don't forget to like, subscribe, and hit the notification bell to stay updated with more episodes of Your Mind Your Business!

Discover more about Site Ready Solutions.

Follow GSQ Brickwork:

Instagram - instagram.com/gsqbrickwork

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Transcript

I remember that day I was out for lunch and just, it was not, there was not a care in my world. It felt and then by the evening I was having this panic attack and wanted to call an ambulance and swear I was having a heart attack. And it was the sort of the moment that was the sort of bit of light bulb moment that I probably needed to slow down and reset.

​Welcome to your mind, your business, the podcast that dives into the real grit of entrepreneurship.

I'm

your host Kar McLeod CEO, and founder of e-Commerce Nurse and e-Commerce Growth Agency, and today we have a special guest, Gary Stains from GSQ Brickwork joining us today.

Welcome Gary. 

Hi, Carina. Good to be here. 

Good. I'm super excited to talk to you today ' cause I, I've, we've briefly spoken, but I dunno your

full story. 

it's gonna be 

some discovery. There 

gonna be some discovery today. So best start off 'cause the audience are probably thinking just like me. Who is Gary? So I let you explain who Gary is today and then I'm gonna hit rewind.

Okay. So I'm the managing director of GSQ Brickwork, as you said. Uh, I am also, um, I'm married to my business partner. Um, we

have got three wonderful boys that all work for the business and also I've got a Labradoodle who I claim is my fourth son.

But, uh, I love building houses. And I love building businesses, but also I love building people so passionate about training and I have a side hustle of a business called Site Ready Solutions. So let's go back to the beginning. 

Yeah, it sounds like you are, you're kept busy, especially, and I love the fact that you've got, uh, the family all involved there as well 

Yeah. I'm not

sure it's design or accident, but it works it works really well to be fair.

And, um, and, you know, when

say a little bit of preparation for today, thinking about the past, um, I've always had side hustles. So having two businesses and working alongside the families, just, yeah, that's what I do.

do Fantastic. So let's go to the start. Mm-hmm. So. Did you ever believe that you would be where you are today Was that

ever entrepreneurship, ever a thought on your mind at the 

Yeah, 

I'm not sure the actual entrepreneurship sits. Um, I probably class myself as a bus, a business person that's been pretty successful.

um, 

and I. I kind of was driven as a child. My parents had, uh, would, did pretty well as they were in construction. They were, uh, bricklayers myself. Uh, they were in their own company, so I was brought up around pretty much, you know, sort of, uh, people that were doing pretty well for their self. Um, but it came from, originally from Baard and from a council house estate.

So it wasn't no real great upbringing, just so you could see there was opportunity by, again, working hard. Um, you know, my first job, probably like many people would've been a paper round. Um, and, and, you know, earning a bit of money and getting a taste for that is, it was something that kind of worked. And then I got brought up around, so my dad was a bricklayer, so you, you, you got bought up around them type of people.

And I would call 'em like real, you know, Essex people. Um, you know, some real characters that I grew up around. But I was massively into music as a child as well. So I think my dream was to be a DJ or, or, or get into music. And I kind of did that 'cause I started, uh, being a dj. At 14, um, being a mobile dj and my dad was lucky enough to take me around to stuff and I was doing parties and bits and pieces, but got to, um, 16 and I think that was probably still my pathway I was gonna do when I left school.

Didn't do that great at school in the end. Uh, really sort of was was pretty, I was, I was fairly, I found school pretty easily, but I just failed my exam. So had to become a bricklayer, I guess My dad was a bricklayer. It seemed the easy way at that point. And, uh, yeah, my dad said. If you learn a trade, you'll have a job for life, which is true 'cause you know, 40 years later I'm still doing it.

Um, but I qualified and I was still DJing and that was really my passion. And from there being a dj, I was also, uh, started selling records at record fairs. Ended up opening a record shop. And then did that for a few years. So it was a record shop, but it wasn't just doing a record shop. Uh, I started promoting, uh, I was doing raves and sort of reggae dos in South End, all this sort of crazy stuff.

And really all that time was, it was really good to, um, you know, make two pound out of one pound. Mm-hmm. There was no real big plan. You just, just earn some money really, you know? And, uh, yeah, that was my journey for a few years. So, uh, yeah. 

Fascinating. I love that. So DJ almost at the age of 14, 

sort of, so as

you say, you've got side hustles, but you were hustling at a really

young age.

Yeah. Yeah How did that work. I kind of, um, again, you know,

having, I've had

lots of great mentors in my life and, um, my dad being one of them

brought, bring me up around music, but also my uncle was a DJ in, in nightclubs and stuff. So I see some of that stuff. And there was a thing about, um. Making people happy. You know I think there's something about in entrepreneurship, about selling stuff, and I had a thing about when I play records. If you make people dance and keep 'em on the dance floor, you're doing something right. And that's something I've sort of taken on in my business life as, as I've sort of progressed and got back into construction and stuff, you know.

But, um, yeah, it was exciting times, you know, it's, uh, it was pretty rock and roll, uh, lifestyle for a few years. 

Yeah. Yeah. I can, I can imagine with, uh, you sort of, I've just had a little bit of nostalgia from the back in the days of raves and everything Yeah. So, 

So, yeah. 

So you, you've got the music going, you, you've got your record shop, um, and your sort of promoting as well.

Yeah. Where, where did things, how did you then sort of go to, 

well, you know I'd met, I got married fairly young, um,

and

Uh, we had a child and then

the second child was coming along. Really, you know, wife, it was just, she had a good job and, you know, she probably was earning more than me at the time I was having the, the rock and roll lifestyle.

Um, and it just seemed more sense to actually maybe go back to, uh, the, the, the old day job of Brick Lamb. And at the time, the record shop, uh, this is was sort of in the, uh, early nineties, mid nineties, and the online thing had just started. So I was just starting selling music online, early days of eBay.

And I was finding, I was selling more records online than I was in the shop. So I thought, well maybe, you know, just go back and do a little, few little side Jo, a little bit of private jobs, building brick land and combining the two. So that was really the journey. So the lease, seven year lease of the shop, uh, run out and yeah, slowly drifted back into construction Really.

Oh Wow. So then were you, uh, selling, still selling 

the Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. And that, that was pretty big for a few years. Um,

And we and again, it was something I ran with my wife. She was

very much, uh, working alongside her doing that. Uh, and we was yeah, sort of selling, I dunno, a hundred, 200 records a day, you know, always going to the post office.

Um, but always. Going and buying records everywhere. So secondhand records, you know, boot sales was quite a thing at the time, and it was, yeah, it was good, but there was a little bit of pressure about combining the two. Um, when I went back to Brick Lane, I, I kind of got lucky in the respect of I soon became a supervisor and soon was looking after my own, uh, uh, gang as we called them back then.

And I was earning good money. And so. There was that sort of balance of trying to find it in time. You know, we had our third son and yeah, there was just never enough time really to spend time with family. So one thing had to go really? So, uh, slowly the records went. Um, yeah, and just concentrated on the BU business.

Awesome. Do you ever miss that? Yeah 

Sometimes, um you know, it was, uh,

it was good So you know, I still got a lot of records,

so and I'm still massively into music. Um, but I think it's, it's tough, tough game to make, make money in really, uh, particularly these days. So it's, you know, you could do it as a bit of a lifestyle job.

Um, but yeah, it's, you move on, don't you? 

Yeah, yeah, definitely. So you, you, you sound somebody that will, when you have like a job or something that you're

working on, you'll, you'll make it happen. As you've said, you, it sounds like you were very successful quite quickly in your bricklaying career.

What, what then sort of moved you to, to move forward from working for someone, I'm guessing someone else,

Yeah I did Yeah So there was about, that was about a 10 year journey. Uh, I was pretty much self-employed for most of it, so I was, I was running

a team or running part of the business. Um. And, you know, I've been self-employed pretty much all my career, so that, that's nice in itself.

You never really know what you're gonna end at, uh, earn at the end of the week. And, you know, back then the simplicity of working an extra, working a Saturday and get paid a bit more and stuff. You know, sort of, sort of simple stuff as a, as a, you know, young person really. Um, but I think there was what I often said yes to everything.

Yeah. You know, I've learned now to say no to a few things, but at the time I was always. Keen to please. And I think it comes back from that, you know, looking back at that DJ thing about, you know, playing that record and seeing people smiles on their face. So the guy I was working with had was getting busy.

There was work, um, sort of West London and stuff and you know, I was from Essex and there was opportunity to earn a bit more money, so I thought I'd go that way, you know, and you'd driven really to. Um, support my family, have good holidays, you know, buy a, buy a nice car and all that sort of stuff that you would, a typical bloke from Essex stuff, really?

Um, that was my drive at the time. Um, but yeah, 10 years and then, um. I'd worked my way up pretty well in the company. He was a successful, uh, Essex, uh, Brickland contractor, and it looked like I was gonna try to buy, he was looking to retire or maybe sell the business. And, uh, now it's 2008 and I was looking to buy the business and, uh, we had a bit of a recession, which, um, I kind of didn't really see coming.

And, uh, I was employed at the time and got made redundant. And, uh, that was a big, big life changing moment for me. 

Yeah, I can imagine because. Sounds like it was kind of all go for you from the start, and there was never really

necessarily a blip until then. Yeah. How did, how did you manage that? 

Yeah, that was definitely the first blip.

Um, I, I was lucky in

the 

respect of, I

had lots of good contacts at that

point So, uh, the position I was with, with, with my employer at the time, I was pretty much running his business day to day. So I had a good contact list, but, um, I can't, you know, I was broken at the time. Um, and I remember walking my dog and, uh.

And just me and my dog and talking to him like you do, you know, I suppose. And, uh, and and crying and and just being in a park with him thinking, what can I do? You know? It was just crazy. And, um. And I suppose, you know, it's probably my first mental health problem, if you like. Uh, but the strength of my wife telling me just to get on with it, you know, she doesn't mess around.

She just tells it the way it is. Um, and it was a little kick like I needed, so I just got the black book out, picked up, made a few phone calls, and quickly got back on it, you know, so if I walled too long, I might have, it may have gone a different way. Um, but yeah, just picks out the phone. Yeah. 

Is is you've got a great bit of self-awareness in the fact that you or who noticed that, that that Was

happening was that self-awareness with you at that point in time? Or is it more back on looking and reflecting back? 

Um, yeah, I've always pretty, pretty good with self-awareness I think. But you know, you reflect back in different ways.

You maybe

retell the story, you know, I'm sort of like, I think back now and I just look at a think of the dog looking at me going, oh, poor dad.

You know, what's going on? But, um, of course it wasn't like that, you know? Um. But I just, yeah, you gotta move on quickly. And I, I got lucky. I always seemed to get lucky. Um, so the guy who I then got some work with, I kind of knew via our sons that played football together, which I didn't know when I made the call to him.

And, you know, it was, again, it was a pretty, in our industry, 2008 in house building was absolutely rock bottom and We sort of like first in recession, first out often. And I went on a site and I literally started with two people. It was me and a former apprentice, and we worked together and just built, we are from there.

So two, you know, he was start, he picked up some more work, said, can I do it? So, became four, you know, became six become, you know, and I just grew from there. So it was, at the time, it seemed like the worst thing that ever happened. But of course it was the best thing really, you know? 

Yeah, definitely. Because I mean, as you say, you hit recession.

Was everybody losing their jobs there? It 

Oh yeah. 

Just just you.

So it was building up then something that had completely dropped that whole industry.

it was a good time

to start really, to be fair. Uh, ' cause

there was other people around there. that was probably had historic debt and stuff and I was just

building 

from, from zero.

So everything was a game from me. Um, and we built a business. So at the time I was really subcontracting some work. We had some direct work with a a, a small groundwork company. Uh, but we built up pretty quickly. Um. There was, there was some cash flow problems. You know, when you're growing in industry, I am, you pay weekly and, and you get paid one day.

So there was always, that was the biggest thing that held me back in growth. But over, um, you know, a couple years we'd grown and we was all of a sudden, you know, pretty quickly got to a million, I guess. Um, and I was good at what we was doing, delivering well for our client. Again, always putting the client first, uh, understand what they wanted, bit like the records, you know, see what, see what music they wanted to hear and delivered it for 'em.

So yeah, built a business. 

And Was that when you, was that your company now or was that when you were

contracted? Yeah, so that uh 2008 we

started GSQ. Uh, and again, there was no great plan. You know, it was just keeping food on the table. Yeah.

Um, I think the couple years of employment I had, um. Got me in a good position 'cause I managed to get a, uh, a good mortgage.

You know, being self-employed at the time, you to have a couple years employment helped, uh, getting a nicer mortgage and a company car and all that stuff. So I had all them things that I wanted to keep so I had to earn some money quickly. Um, and yeah, just, just be away from there. Um, but I was ambitious. I, I was around, I had lots of good friends lots of friends that had been quite successful, uh, that had nice cars and nice houses and, uh.

Yeah, I wanted a bit of that. Really. So, yeah, just, just driven, really 

driven. Yeah, definitely. And so before that happened and before you set up your business, were you ever, you were more contracting

so what were those big things? The scariest thing for you, I guess when you started up your own business?

Yeah. It, it it would've been cash. Um, cash in the tax man and stuff like that. You know, there was. there was

some strange nuances that you had to get gross status, uh, in tax wise. So it helped cash flow. And I remember when I applied for it, you had to have a certain amount of turnover. Uh, I got turned down, so I went and appealed.

I thought, no, I'm not having that. I'm gonna go and stand in front of the, the tax man and, and fight him, and I won. Uh, so that helped. But yeah, you kind of got away with it. And I think at the time I was, I, I. 'cause I was doing some subcontracting for another contract and I had my own work. I balanced the two.

Mm-hmm. And my wife was very good at numbers. Uh, and together we, as we was always a team, you know, so, um, and I, you know, we've, we've grown, I've always grown everything as a team. I've had a lot of people around me that are good at what they do, and I just stick to do what I'm, I'm good at. I wasn't a bad brick layer, um, wasn't brilliant.

So, but I'm a pretty good people person and a good manager. I think, you know. 

Yeah, 

because how many people do you have working for you now? 

Oh, it's scary. So around about 250 any one time. Um,

and so many of them are self-employed. Uh, so, but

direct employees with, with the apprentices and stuff, we are, we're close to a hundred.

Um, so it's a big team. Um, and it's grown to being quite a big business, to be fair. Mm-hmm. Um, and it's still, you know, a cash hungry business because we pay every week. Yeah. Uh, and of course we're in really possibly another, uh, recession in my industry. There's a lot of talk about house building and the amount of houses we all need to build, but it's very market led and the market's not great at the moment.

Yeah. Does that, um, I'm keen to come onto that. But I'm also keen to go to that start of when you grow in your team, because

I'm guessing that wasn't overnight, that you grew over to like 100 employees. What was it like when you had to start making your first few hires and that, I guess, that responsibility that it's not just on your way, you are responsible for others.

Yeah. Um. Yeah, there's a risk taking in that, I guess. But, um, hiring people

that are good at doing stuff that you don't do. Um, so. You know, laid in bricks and building houses is pretty simple. You know, you have, uh, traditionally two, two people, uh, and a and a laborer Uh, that's your team and you know, you, you, you put together another one of those that could go and build another house for you, and then maybe when there's another site, they can go and do it. And that element of trust, you know, again, back in the day, it's quite simple. It was. Uh, business run on a telephone. There's no internet or anything. Um, and you go and have a look, look, see what's happening. So you build that trust. Um but always, always having a backup plan as well. So, you know, if you put someone there, you think Right.

If it doesn't work out, you know, maybe if it, you know, fo fast, get rid of 'em quickly and you could back, you know, what we was doing. If, if he wasn't good by nine o'clock in the morning, you could kind of get rid of people, you know, so it kind of works. Mm. Um, you know, there's, uh, politically some pressure about self-employment and stuff.

Um, but it, it, it does work really. 

Yeah.

and

and are you somebody that is quite comfortable with delegating? Because you know, when you,

when you are doing something yourself, like let's say you are a good brick layer. Yeah. And then all of a sudden you are like, no, actually I'm passing the work onto someone else.

Yeah. How does that 'cause you're effectively, it's all about the, the client then 

it is. Yeah. So, um, like I said, find some good

number twos that

buy into what you are, what you're trying to deliver.

And I have

got lucky, uh, I've got some very lucky, got some really good people around me, but I think I'm good at that.

So it's about you, you tend to, um, somehow rate, you know, you sort of connect with good people. So, I dunno, it's a bit of a magic trick. I dunno. Um. And yeah, just, just, you gotta take the ego out of that delegation. Um, and I think there's, there can be a lot of ego in men working with each other, um, but getting other people to do that job and yeah, you, you, you gonna fail a few times and I've failed a few times.

Um, but yeah, just if you're not gonna build it on your own, doing what I do, you, you can't do that. And I, I guess really in any business, any entrepreneurial business that you now, I, I, you know, I've got to meet. Plenty of entrepreneurs now and, uh, you see that everyone, even though it's a lonely thing, um, you need a team.

Yeah, yeah, definitely. And you spoke a bit earlier about people pleasing And saying yes to everything 

Yeah. 

Has that changed? And what was that moment where you did make that change to start saying No. 

Yeah I I grew up and, um, yeah, 

I grew up, 

I grew up, yeah. I don't think I've ever grown up Yeah So that, you know? uh but I had, um, so the, the building of the business from 2008 and um, probably for seven or eight years, I was driven by money more than anything.

And. 

And. 

You know, there was, there was quite pressure building. I was drinking far too much, um, some history of, you know, being out a lot, you know, back in the promoting and raving days. So yeah, I was, um, yeah, self-medicating a lot really. Um, and success was becoming a thing, so. Bigger houses, uh, a house in Spain, uh more cars and just stuff and yeah, maybe I got a little bit misdirected a bit.

So, um, yeah, you just, I, I, I had to find myself a little bit, you know, and try to find the real me and, uh, that's not always easy when you're still trying to grow this business a little bit. So becoming authentic and, and vulnerable It doesn't really fit when you're trying to build something in, in a male dominated industry, you know?

So yeah, there was, there was a bit of a thing and it sort of coincided with, uh, becoming 50 and, and COVID, uh, at the time I didn't really think that those two things were that important, but when I look back again now, it's probably all had to happen. Really. You know, it's a bit of a reset for us all.

Fascinating. '

cause you it sounds like you've had a couple of resets, right? Yeah. If we look back, you've got, had the 2008,

um and then the the, business of course we had COVID and that, so I guess it's a part where, as you said, it's all about the money. You've got the cars house and you very 

successful. Yeah.

I mean the success was, I mean the, the problem I had at that time, we were spending a lot of time in Spain. I was loving it, you know, I was loving this sort of second life as it were. mm-hmm.

Um, but then people at home were probably thinking, uh, were taking air off the board of business. So, you know, the. Bottom line wasn't quite as good as it was. You know, the top line was great, uh, but um, the bottom line wasn't so good.

And I think that's just natural, isn't it? While, you know, while the bosses away as it were. Um, but it was just that trying to work out what I really wanted and the drinking. So it is back in, uh, 2016. I had a panic attack and it just came from absolutely nowhere. Um, and it, it came from really at the time I was, you know, I think I was a million dollars.

Everything was great. You know, I remember that day I was out for lunch and just, it was not, there was not a care in my world. It felt And then by the evening I was having this panic attack and wanted to call an ambulance and, swear I was having a heart attack. and it was the sort of the moment that was the sort of bit of light bulb moment that I probably needed to slow down and reset.

So it took me a few years from then actually, uh, sort of suffering from anxiety, hiding it well. Um, but again, still growing a business, you know? 

Yeah, interesting. So I guess that's where you, you've got that hunger, right? And you're growing and you're like, well, I can

grow more, can grow more. 'cause I had a guest the other day that was like, well, we get to a million. Then you're like, well, let's do 2 million. Yeah, well let's do 5 million. And there's kind of like, it's that constant growth.

Yeah. Yeah. There was, there was a number, I mean,

every time the accountant

sat down with us and said, how well it was going, and it all felt good. And you know, the

ego.

I think we are gonna talk about social media. You know, social media becomes a bit of a thing, you know, you can sort of like you look at, maybe compare with others at the time. Um, so I was definitely driven for, to earn more and some of the stuff I had was, was I suppose, could be seen as state of symbol stuff.

Um, but it was also. 

Uh it

came because the rewards became as part of what you did, I suppose, you know? So it wasn't always, I need to go and buy that, you know, 'cause I've got some spare money. You just, just kind of did it, you know? So, yeah. But it was, 2020 was a big reset because. We had grown the business a lot at the time as well, so we was probably at that point we was just turning into about a 10 million pound business.

Wow. And we had just taken a lease for our first office. We'd, we'd previously run everything from home. We had an office at home, which was good, but we was growing. We'd taken on a couple of more managers and so home just wasn't working

Mm 

And Again, 2020. When, when that kicked in the COVID, I remember the people saying, are you sure about this lease?

Are you sure about this money you are spending? I'm went no that's absolutely fine. Don't worry. Um, and I wasn't worried, you know, and I don't really worry now about money at all, actually. Um, but yeah, it kind of works out well, you know? Um, so yeah. 

So you've been um, you have this, this panic attack. Yeah. What what Then do you start changing?

Yeah So 2016 I I took some advice to to start

switching 

off a little bit

finding And, and I, you know, took of my

parents lived in France and I, I just took myself away there for a bit and took a break and, uh, tried to start reflecting. Um. 

Um. but 

And changed my whole relationship with alcohol. Um tried to moderate, which was, was not easy Um, in respect of it, probably it was getting, the hangovers were getting worse and the anxiety was getting worse 'cause I was probably hitting it harder at weekends and stuff. Um, and I just cobbled along for about three or four years trying to find this magic cure for hangovers. And then in 2020, he found one by giving up completely.

Um, but it was again, time of reflection in Spain. Uh, we had spent the, um. Previous summers in Spain with lots of friends and guests coming over. 'cause we couldn't this year 'cause it was COVID. We managed to get there. Uh, but it was time on my own. And I was reading um, reading a book at the time Ollie Oton uh, which was, uh, I was reading it really just called the whole SAS thing.

And there was a thing in there about him becoming now coal free and, uh, finding his sort of purpose. And it made me reflect a bit and, um. And I decided to give up alcohol. Um, spent the summer drinking, uh, whilst cause whilst doing it. But, uh, yeah, dug into listen to podcasts Um, trying to find out at the time 2020, there was people giving up, but it wasn't necessarily, I didn't know anyone.

Um, but finding podcasts helped me find other people. Uh, found Andy Ramage, the one year no beer, uh, and a few other guys. Adrian Charles had done a thing on BBC, so it wasn't unheard, unheard, of, but. Yeah I got into that really, you know? Yeah. And that really helped me reset and kind of find my purpose that it wasn't necessary about money anymore, you know?

Mm.

That's fascinating. Was the, um, was the drink, was the anxiety, do you think, as a result of the work and stress or the drinking or the

drinking 

to combat Yeah I think It was the drink. I think it was just the drinking. Because it was very health anxiety. Mm-hmm Um, so I was having,

Um, like a lot of chest pains and stuff that, uh, I was a little bit overweight at the time as I just worked my way up to being 18 stone or something stupid, crazy.

You know, you just, just just creeps on. And I also thought I was really fit, strange you know, when you look back you know, um. But it was the drink so the anxiety of having hangovers every day or, and I wasn't necessarily drinking every day, but I was just still groggy two or three days later. So it was as a, as a thing for about performance.

It was terrible. And I just, I was seeking this cure and I was trying everything, you know, so white wine instead of red gin instead of beer and all these things. And um, yeah, the only cure really is to give up. Yeah. And, uh, yeah, it's worked out really well for me to be fair. 

And it's really interesting that you mention purpose because I, I've had another 

guest on that

that thought that sort of,

they were driven by money and for, for decades they were driven by money, 

and then something just changed So 

yeah, I think, you know, there's something about possibly hitting 50 uh, and the, the whole

thing 

about, um, wanting to maybe live forever or not. Um, so yeah, midlife crisis or some sort of crisis. But I had, I'd had a few, uh. There's a few people struggling or you know, sort of a couple people end of life stuff as well, going on with, uh, some family people, family and friends.

And, um, it made you reflect a lot about why we are here. 

And 

um, I got introduced to a book, uh, the Five Regrets That Are Dying, uh, Brony Ware. And it was so powerful about people that, um, and she was a end of life nurse helping people really, and she had sat down with her so many successful people and got into what was their, what was their drive, and of course none of 'em was money, you know, they all had to, had their regrets.

And there was two things with that. It was, one is, um, how could she do that job? A nurse that wasn't necessarily paid that well. Yeah. Everything I was wanting to do was all about being paid. Well, you know, but she had, she seemed to have a great sense of purpose. You could see how, how much she was being rewarded by helping others and just the, the insights of the people that she was talking to.

So that book really resonated with me. And again, you know, if I hadn't changed, um. My, you know, my stuff, my with alcohol, which got me into stoicism and trying to, you know, a, a, a real seeking in this sort of bit more about myself, the true, authentic me. I just would never got that book. So, yeah, it's, it was a real life changing.

Year. Really. 

Yeah, it sounds like it. And uh, and I'm guessing that's what got you into your other business as well 

yeah, So, um, yeah, it was. There was a thing, and uh, at the time I, I got involved in a mastermind and some coaching

and, a lot of people there was talking about goals and I'm like, um.

No, I haven't got any, you know, everything. Um, a lot of people's goals I had already achieved, if you like, so I'm thinking I don't need that, you know and a lot of it was money stuff. So I, um, I worked out this thing about helping others. I thought, oh, I'd like to give that more of a go. And I'd also reflected on our business that we had grown, that we had grown it with a lot of apprentices.

Back 

in 

2011, I'd come up with this concept of someone being site ready. I was being working with people that are coming from college that just weren't site ready. So we looked at starting a business back then as site ready, and uh, we got that going a little bit, but it was really just sat within the business.

So we, we doubled down on when people started with us to really get into 'em on day one. To get them, almost chuck away everything they learned in college or didn't learn in college and get 'em ready for site. So we started developing our own apprenticeship program, um started taking more and mores on and yeah, that became a thing.

It was a real intention I wanted to give back and I could give back by also helping my own business, um, building some real, um, so to hand over to my children some succession. My three sons work for the business. So, you know, trying to build a really good workforce and building it from within, you know.

That's amazing. And I love the fact that you, you kind of find, found that purpose of giving back. You mentioned

about sort of making people happy when you were growing your business. 'cause I mean, to get to where you, you got to and you mentioned 10 million. I mean, that's, that's incredible. So congratulations in terms of being able to grow a business, um, to, to that, to that level.

Yeah. 

Were you always sort of able to kind of see. That potential

in

people or were you a lot more, I guess a lot more cutthroat then? 

then Yeah, you have to make cutthroat decisions Mm-hmm. Um, and like I said, what we do as the data was fairly simple, you know? Mm-hmm. Uh,

you start with zero every, every Monday and you've gotta earn some money by the end of the week.

Um, but. Yeah, it still comes back to that finding people that can, that can work together as a team. Um, and we've built it now, uh, that we've got some like really good management. And I had also a thing about of, hopefully, you know, I had this thing about, um. 

Joy 

Sto ment Maori and, and, you know, getting comfortable with death a little bit, but also weirdly still wanting to live forever.

So creating that legacy of, of, of building people in and around you that can sort of like yeah, buy into what you do. And it's, you know, it's, it's challenging, but it's great. Like I say, it's really rewarding. So, yeah, that's, that's what drives me every day. So, um. We've now set up a new business site Ready Solutions, which, uh, set is set separate than, uh, separate than uh, GSQ.

But it's sort of like, works pretty much alongside at the moment. And we've got some funding via House Building Federation and CITB and it's, yeah, really exciting. So I've kind of, um, yeah, got a new, a new chapter really, which is, uh, I'm loving it. 

Yeah, that's fantastic. And, uh, especially sort of. As you say through that reflective moment of being able to create something

that You know, going into, as you say, a mastermind and everybody's clear on their goals and you're like, hang on.

Yeah. What, what, what's mine? So, you know, you went from Brick Lane and you're, you're creating this business to the size that it, that it is today. No one hands you, I always say this, no one hands you a guidebook to say, this is how you run your, your business. Were there any of any times where you just thought, what the hell is going on?

Like, I just don't think I can take the business to the next level. 

maybe yesterday. I dunno 

Um Um yeah. I mean, sometimes you can look at that and we are still growing now. Uh, we've grown

quite a lot and we, we still plan to grow. Um, you know, you just gotta realize that it's, it's, yeah, it's almost like, it, it, it doesn't really matter.

I know it's obviously if if it all went wrong, it would matter to a lot of other people, but I think you know that resilience is you just go and do it again. Um. It can be lonely. Uh, and I've been finding recently working alongside other business owners has really helped me, uh, because you just don't, if you are the business owner and Okay, you know, I've got my partner and my wife who's, um, is slightly different, you know?

Uh, so having other people gives you a bit of strength. Um, so I don't fear anything I look forward to every day I love it. Um, yeah. So it's, yeah, it's, it's, it's exciting and, uh. What can go wrong? You know, like a, you know, I think there's this, um, I think sometimes I'll keep talking about deficit or quite morbid but when you understand that that's really the only real thing that you need maybe to fear, and if you don't fear that then yeah, there's nothing to fear, I guess, you know?

Yeah, definitely. So, I guess, you know, you mentioned earlier about potential. Recession. And 

of course you experienced something Yeah Back then. Does that ever play on your mind? 

Yeah, I think, you know, you've gotta look for the signs of where we are now.

Um And we are

in

you know in pretty tough times. um,

the, uh, the list trust thing happened, you know, at, at a big change for us in our industry and help help to buy has gone.

So it's slowed massively at the moment. So you've gotta look at trying to see where, um. You know, look at where you can save, make some savings and do things slightly different. I think the way the world's moving on, uh, 

with uh, the challenges of AI or the opportunities, obviously what I do is hands on still you know, it's, and it's people to people.

But, um, so there's a different way going forward and I think, you know, when we're training people now we're looking at. Uh, I think a lot of young people that they look at life a lot differently. Uh, they're more, they wanna get there quicker, so you've gotta try to fulfill that a little bit for 'em. Uh, so we, we talk about history of training and what was done back in the day, but we look at a more of a modern approach.

And to me, I think, I guess also what I've always done, uh, around everyone I've worked is try to repower them the best as I can. So we do that with the people we train, but the people around me, the managers, they pretty much, yeah, I, I could exist. The business exists without me as much as I can really, you know?

Yeah. Sounds like you are innovating in your industry. 

Yeah, definitely. With, uh, the site ready solutions, I'm, I'm really trying to,

because, um, the, the, the whole skills gap problem is, is

it's been there for a very long time. Um, if you look back at the history of, of house building and, uh, apprenticeships and training, it's never been that great You know going back to slum clearances post World War I, um, we've, we've done, we've pivoted a lot to, um, further education, taking on the training rather than the employers doing it. And, uh, it's all very messy. Um, but there's a great opportunity and a mess. So I haven't really worked out how we're gonna make money, uh, by helping people, and lots of me doesn't really care about that.

Uh, that's the, that is a, you know, byproduct maybe. Uh, but I wanna drive it to be a big business. Um, so I've committed to doing some social media stuff. I'm, uh, following it as a vlog for the next three years, you know, putting myself accountable out there. So yeah, give it a good go. 

Yeah. And, and the social media part's an interesting one cause you are in a A different type of industry, but as

you say, you are innovating in the industry and then you're getting a lot of young people joining, um, who are gonna be more around the social, on social media.

So is that sort of the part that you are pushing yourself more

Yeah. Yeah. You have to. I mean, uh, I've got a real love-hate relationship with social media. I think like I guess a lot of us do. Um, so I use LinkedIn a

lot for? my business stuff and, um, and really sort of showcasing what we do. Um, but in, in brickwork terms. It's become quite glamorous to be a brick LA these days. There's a bit of a social media following. There's a big event called Super Trial, uh, and it's highlighting, uh, how brick LA could be successful.

And we, we have a thing that we talk about zero to Hero, that you, you can come in with zero and after three years with zero debt, you could be only 50 KA year, which is not bad, uh, opportunity for people. So we highlight that, you know, on the Instagram and TikTok and stuff and get people that's trying to become a little bit more aspirational rather than maybe falling into construction, uh, which I think's historically done.

And I think, you know. With the whole AI and the way the world's gonna change in, in the way people work. You know, there's a great opportunity if we can grasp it. And, you know, I've, I've met so many wonderful people in the last few years, and it's not just young people we're working with, uh, people that are, um, ex-military or people who are in prisons.

Um, the whole sort of needs thing. It's, you know, there's loads of people out that really are looking for an opportunity. 

Yeah. And, and some kind of, uh, I guess career as well. 

Yeah. And I think, you know, brick laying is, is entrepreneur

in itself It's one brick on top of two And we, we

kind of we, focus our training on, on the numbers and seeing how quickly we can get someone to that.

But while sort by making sure that skills are delivered, you know, there's a bit of a time surfing with skills. You, you can't dodge the Yeah. 10,000 hour stuff if you like, you know, but, um, you need to reward people and reward 'em quickly. I think that's really important. 

Yeah.

yeah, definitely.

And you know, in your industry, I'm guessing you are always gonna have competition.

Yeah.

Do you stay in your lane or can you get distracted by others?

Um, yeah. 

Um, yeah.

yeah So

you never compare, they say, isn't it? Um yeah Competition.

Uh, actually the secret of this skills gap is collaboration rather than competition, which is a tricky one. 'cause obviously all businesses really, by definition is competition, you know?

Um, but. 

Yeah 

Just, I think some of it drives you. There was a, um, I think you look at the success of Microsoft and Apple, they were driven to beat each other. So I think there's some good in that really, you know, some entrepreneurship and business competitions kind of healthy, but the whole social media noise you've gotta learn now to switch off.

Um, you've got to, um, and I think, you know doing what we are doing with this podcast stuff is, is the best type of social media because it's trying to get back to the connection, which is what human beings do really well. And I think, you know, the. We can all get pulled into scrolling too much and going, oh yeah, maybe I should be doing that rather than the, the lane we're in.

But, uh, you know, as that maturity, you know, you've just gotta know that you're, um, I sometimes say I'm just a Brit layer and we're all just someone but we're all, we're all broken, you know? But we can all succeed, you know, like that whole thing, you know, it's all cliche stuff, but it works. You know, life's not linear and stuff, you know, but you get to load that as you get older and get a few bruises along the way, you know, so.

And 

yeah And get and and proud of your battle scars. 

Yeah, I am. Yeah, I am really, and that's why I don't, you know, I like to put this out there, you know, talking

about, um, the whole thing with alcohol.

You know, hopefully

you'll get other people that maybe go, yeah, I get it, you know, it's okay to talk about that stuff.

It's not a, you know, I wouldn't ever cost myself as an alcoholic or anything. You know, we can all life, you don't put labels. Life's far too complicated than labels, you know But, um, just be yourself, I think, you know, and, and, say try to remove the ego as much as possible. Connect with people, um, and the collaboration, I think, you know, this is really key, um, to be going forward in this, in this sort of sometimes a little bit scary world.

We need to collaborate. 

100% agree with that. And um, you know, you mentioned about noise. Do you, is your, are you somebody that

where your mind's kind of constantly turning 

Yeah 

how do you, how do you kind of keep it balanced? 

Oh It's tough. You know, so stoicism teaches me to be

calm and And be still Um, but

I'm busy. You know, the mind is crazy busy. And you, you know, you think of this whole thing about, um, of seeking a label when I sit, I, I found out I read that book, rocket Fuel and, and, and concept of being a visionary and, and also working on people that um that, can help you become, you know, get some, get some stuff outta vision.

So. I know that, that, you know, your your head's busy and you've gotta work a way of sort of like not getting into the void and overthinking and stuff So, um, yeah, it's just, it's getting that balance right, you know? So staying busy is good for me. Um, you know, I like we touched upon it, you know, I like running and stuff where you can get your own time, but switching off from from phones is really good.

So I like to travel a lot. My wife and myself travel. We'd take herself off and switch off. And again, the team does our work. We're away. So yeah, you've gotta find downtime. 

Yeah, definitely. And was there a time where you, that was more challenging? Like 'cause for for example,

travel you are, you are building a business. Uh, what was, do you remember that first time where you went away and you basically left the business in someone else's hands 

yeah. there's still, still sometimes real you know the full trust. There you go over to you and I think there's, um,

I'm in this like next era, so do I remember it? Yeah. And it's tough. Um, but again, having the free sons work, work for the business and they, and they, they've done, they've earned, they right within the business really well.

Um, you know, I'm, I'm proud to say that they would go and get that job working for anyone and do it really well. So there's a bit of a sort of succession planning coming along. Um. I don't really ever want to give up work in if, if there is such a thing as work. 'cause like I said, I, I've not spent a long time since I've not, I've worried about going to doing something on a Monday if you like, you know, so, um, uh, yeah, it's exciting times, but there would always be.

There's that thing about it being your baby and it being a little bit of control, you know? And so again, you know, it's always a bit of a battle of loving the stoic stuff that should be, I say just relax and everyone's got your back, but it's not as simple as that, 

Yeah, yeah, definitely. And you, as you said, you don't seem 

to be, phased by

things in the sense of

not necessarily scared or have that fear. Is there anything though that would keep you awake at night? 

I think there was, you know, when we look at about numbers in the business and when it got to, a of a turnover, 12 million

a year and, and thinking about 12 and 12 months, I'm thinking, well, I've gotta go win a million pounds worth of work a month.

You know, almost, you know? Yeah. And that was a bit of a, oh, oh, what do I do? Um, but don't overthink it and just push on, I suppose, build people around it. So.

Yeah. I

I guess health would be, would be the one that's the, that is the constant battle as you get older, you know, you're in around people that are, uh, not necessarily the best of health as we get older.

Uh, so just trying to stay fit as much as possible. Um, physically fit, mentally fit. So the whole, uh, concept of mentally fit is, you know, I'm always like, so trying to learn more about myself and working along the other side of other people. And I think recently working, um, with people that are like, you know, similar position myself that wanna give back has really helped me.

Uh, I said, getting into other people's vulnerabilities help you grow stronger. But yeah, the health thing would be the worry, you know? 'cause certainly you just can't control there, but. Keep yourself. Um, it's that concept of it's like a glider, isn't it? The higher you are, uh, as, as you know, sort of when you start slowing down, if you're up higher in the first place, uh, the landing's a bit softer, I think.

You know, 

yeah. Yeah. Definitely. And just something interesting you said there was like, when you get to a certain size, like

it's very different, isn't it, from when, when you first start out to being like, right, we need to, we need to get a million of, of business.

Like do you ever sort of think, oh. What if we can't get that? Or do you ever question or doubt yourself? 

The the thing that gives me confidence there is that I'm still a bricklayer Mm-hmm. So if I had to go and start all over again and get my

trail out and get my tools out and go and build a wall, uh, and, and make some money out of it, or go and be a DJ again, or start setting my records and stuff, I've got that, you know, in, in, I know I can do it.

Um, and I think there's that. That because the reliance of being self-employed for most of my life and being brought up around that sort of culture of my family gives you the belief that you can do that. So, um, it's, it's kind of, yeah, just, just try to not fear anything at all. Um, and you know, I know a lot of people's not as fortunate as me. Uh you know, clearly as many. Um, you try to help them really with that, to just, just to sort of like put your arm around them and say, look, it's all right You know thing. That's why that why I'm, I'm loving doing what I'm doing about mentoring and stuff and you and I working with people that are doing it really well.

Um, just being nice to people, uh, and just becoming maybe a parent so many more. I dunno, you know, it's just a bit, sounds a bit woo woo sometimes, but, you know, helping others is just really good

Yeah 100%. And I think it's interesting that you say at the end of the day, I'm a bricklayer. Because I

think that's a really interesting way of looking at it because you know that that's your fallback, right?

if Every, if like you hit, not saying this is gonna happen, but from, from to manage it in your mind, if, if a recession or if anything happened. There's always a fallback. 

Yeah. I, I pretty, most weeks I would say that we have a we'd have a team. I say, that's right. I'll go, I've gotta run out job myself. if we can't find someone.

But, uh,

yeah crazy to think that that could have happened, really. But um, yeah, it's a really nice fallback and I think, you know, we all need that. Um. And yeah, like a, you know, it's all. If I had times, you know, I'm sure there's gonna be many more challenges ahead in business. And it, and there's a different challenge when you get to a size now uh, funny enough on the train up where I got a phone call and just won another job, uh, which is great, you know, win a job on a train, you know, do a little bit of a deal wheeling deal.

Yeah. And it's, it's, it's a, you know, it's a fairly sized job, big job. But, you know, you've had to take a little bit of a tighter hit on your margin. You've gotta make them decisions. But again, um, you know, you know what you're doing. And I think growth is, is far easier to handle than the other way round.

And I think there's, um, obviously it is scary. There's a lot of businesses going out of, um, business at the moment and the lack of cash in the, in the industry and cash overall. I think it's a bit of a worry, I think, you know, so, yeah. Um, and you know, there's a little thing about, we all kind of wait for the government to sort things out and, um, I had this line before about, you know, the, the government never invented rock and roll.

It wasn't a government led initiative. You know, the people, we are the revolution and stuff. And I think just, I got a bit of a thing that. You know, the people will sort this out. Stop blaming, you know, it's not meant to be a political comment, but when we gotta stop relying on the government to do, bail us out you know, let 'em do the admin and, and let the people, and let the business people go and, uh, really run the world, you know?

Yeah, 100%. And, and something interesting there about, you mentioned about growth is easier. 

Yeah

Have you ever had that part

where you've had to pull back and you've had to almost downsize or, or drop at some point throughout the years? 

Yeah, I I guess a co the last couple years we have done that, you know, we built up a, um, a cost base, um, of, you know, your

your your central costs that are running up at a, a number where you probably gotta hit that to, to really start getting the margins out of it.

So we've had to take a step backwards the last couple years, but we've, we're in a really good position now to move it forward. And I think, you know, adding the training stuff to what we've done and adding that we've. Constantly delivered to our clients of, of the, of the standards, the quality they require.

Uh, building up a really good network of good client base repeat business gives you a good opportunity to go forward Mm-hmm. So, um, yeah, it's like, I wanna, it's almost you reinvent the business each year, almost each week. Really? I'm always trying to bring new innovation to it. Maybe sometimes too much to be fair.

But then that's when you need a really good operations person around you to sort of, you know, calm you down and get some focus, you know? 

Yeah, I was about to say, there's that visionary I can see sort of in front of me of, uh, and how

you manage that in your industry as well, and like not get distracted by shiny objects in new, new shiny objects syndrome. 

Yeah, yeah. No, definitely. You're right. Uh, there's always, um, I think sometimes you can do that because if, if you, if you set

something up and it doesn't work, you think, oh, I couldn't have another idea. That one will work. You know, so there's possibly an element on that. And if you look at, um, all of the tabs I've got open, all the opportunities I've got and all of the inbound opportunities I've got in the moment is I've gotta find a little bit of focus, I guess, because other things can suffer.

I think the one thing about helping others and giving back is a lot of people want a piece of that, and it doesn't necessarily come with. With an income stream. So, um, you know, if you're in a really good position just to give back, it's great. But we're trying to also keep a bit of the commercial reality to that.

Um, you know, there's enough money out there actually for it just to be redistributed a little bit and to get some real impact by giving people some real meaningful jobs and purpose in their life. So there's a lot of challenges there. But, so yes, knowing, uh, the next route, um and that's kind of when that whole you know of me filming the stuff we're doing for three years.

I mean, I'm excited about that. 'cause when it goes wrong, I'll say it, you know Yeah So it'll just be true. 

Yeah, definitely. And be completely authentic. As you say. And, uh, before we wrap up, I always have one last

question I, I ask my guests, which is, if you were to go back to that start of your journey, would you do anything differently? 

Uh, probably not because the, the, the failures, uh, you know, the, the saying, the obstacles, the ways helped me massively.

Um I'm so lucky. Um, you know, my wife is my absolute bedrock and my family, I just love it, you know, and that having that around me, there will be times when sometimes you don't necessarily wanna take the business chat around the, around the dinner table.

Yeah. And, uh, you know, put in my place that I'm not the boss in that space, you know, but, um, but yeah, I wouldn't, I wouldn't change a thing really. Uh, you know, I'm really living it. Try to live as much as no regrets. And, uh, when you, uh, work out that you are good enough. You are all right. You're not just, you know, just that person that you sometimes perceive you was, uh, everything else falls in place really nicely.

So yeah, bring it on. 

That's amazing. I've absolutely loved your story. Um, 'cause there's, there's the growth of your business, but there's also this personal growth journey that you've gone through and, and to come out, sort of where you are at now in terms of finding a new purpose or finding that real purpose and you are helping others.

Um, is amazing. So congratulations, first off on the success of your business. Thank you. And then of course on, on what you are now doing in, in the sense of being able to, to give back and help others, others grow. 

Yeah. Uh, hopefully it's all gonna work out really well. Uh, but let's say if it doesn't back on the trail.

Yeah, exactly. I'm sure. I'm sure it will. So thank you so much. for sharing your story today. 

You Excellent. Thank you for ha Thank you for having me. 

And thank you everyone for listening today.