Mystical Theology: Introducing the Theology and Spiritual Life of the Orthodox Church

Episode 3: “On the Knowledge of God”, Part 3, & “Concerning Obedience”, Part 1. “Sts. Silouan and Sophrony the Athonites: Principles of the Christian Life”

October 21, 2023 The Mount Thabor Academy Season 2 Episode 3
Episode 3: “On the Knowledge of God”, Part 3, & “Concerning Obedience”, Part 1. “Sts. Silouan and Sophrony the Athonites: Principles of the Christian Life”
Mystical Theology: Introducing the Theology and Spiritual Life of the Orthodox Church
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Mystical Theology: Introducing the Theology and Spiritual Life of the Orthodox Church
Episode 3: “On the Knowledge of God”, Part 3, & “Concerning Obedience”, Part 1. “Sts. Silouan and Sophrony the Athonites: Principles of the Christian Life”
Oct 21, 2023 Season 2 Episode 3
The Mount Thabor Academy

Series: Mystical Theology
Unit 16: “Sts. Silouan and Sophrony the Athonites: Principles of the Christian Life”, by Prof. Christopher Veniamin
Episode 3: “On the Knowledge of God”, Part 3, & “Concerning Obedience”, Part 1

Based on the reading of excerpts from Silouan’s chapters, “On the Knowledge of God” and “Concerning Obedience”, from the masterpiece, Saint Silouan the Athonite, by St. Sophrony the Athonite, this third episode will delve a little more deeply into the mystery of how we may come to know God, and subsequently on the Orthodox understanding of Christian obedience, which is fundamental in our constant quest to discover the will of God in any and every moment of our lives.

Themes covered include the vision of Christ, ascetic & charismatic humility, three forms of obedience, the paradoxical character of the Christian life, the obedience of Sts. Silouan, Porphyrios, and Symeon the New Theologian.

It is hoped that these presentations will help the enquirer discern the interwoven character of Orthodox theology and the Orthodox Christian life, and to identify the ascetic and pastoral significance of the Orthodox ethos.

Q&As related to Episode 3 available in The Professor’s Blog

Recommended background reading: Saint Silouan the Athonite, by St. Sophrony the Athonite; and The Enlargement of the Heart, by Archimandrite Zacharias

ACKNOWLEDGEMENTS: I wish to express my indebtedness to the spoken and written traditions of Sts Silouan and Sophrony the Athonites, Fr. Zacharias Zacharou, Fr. Kyrill Akon, Fr. Raphael Noica, Fr. Symeon Brüschweiler; Fr. John Romanides, Fr. Pavlos Englezakis, Fr. Georges Florovsky, Prof. Constantine Scouteris, Prof. George Mantzarides, Prof. John Fountoulis, Mtp Kallistos Ware, and Prof. Panayiotes Chrestou. My presentations have been enriched by all of the above sources. Responsibility however for the content of my presentations is of course mine alone. ©Christopher Veniamin 2023

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Series: Mystical Theology
Unit 16: “Sts. Silouan and Sophrony the Athonites: Principles of the Christian Life”, by Prof. Christopher Veniamin
Episode 3: “On the Knowledge of God”, Part 3, & “Concerning Obedience”, Part 1

Based on the reading of excerpts from Silouan’s chapters, “On the Knowledge of God” and “Concerning Obedience”, from the masterpiece, Saint Silouan the Athonite, by St. Sophrony the Athonite, this third episode will delve a little more deeply into the mystery of how we may come to know God, and subsequently on the Orthodox understanding of Christian obedience, which is fundamental in our constant quest to discover the will of God in any and every moment of our lives.

Themes covered include the vision of Christ, ascetic & charismatic humility, three forms of obedience, the paradoxical character of the Christian life, the obedience of Sts. Silouan, Porphyrios, and Symeon the New Theologian.

It is hoped that these presentations will help the enquirer discern the interwoven character of Orthodox theology and the Orthodox Christian life, and to identify the ascetic and pastoral significance of the Orthodox ethos.

Q&As related to Episode 3 available in The Professor’s Blog

Recommended background reading: Saint Silouan the Athonite, by St. Sophrony the Athonite; and The Enlargement of the Heart, by Archimandrite Zacharias

ACKNOWLEDGEMENTS: I wish to express my indebtedness to the spoken and written traditions of Sts Silouan and Sophrony the Athonites, Fr. Zacharias Zacharou, Fr. Kyrill Akon, Fr. Raphael Noica, Fr. Symeon Brüschweiler; Fr. John Romanides, Fr. Pavlos Englezakis, Fr. Georges Florovsky, Prof. Constantine Scouteris, Prof. George Mantzarides, Prof. John Fountoulis, Mtp Kallistos Ware, and Prof. Panayiotes Chrestou. My presentations have been enriched by all of the above sources. Responsibility however for the content of my presentations is of course mine alone. ©Christopher Veniamin 2023

Support the Show.

Dr. Christopher Veniamin

Support The Mount Thabor Academy
https://www.buzzsprout.com/2232462/support

THE MOUNT THABOR ACADEMY
Print Books by MOUNT THABOR PUBLISHING

The Professor's Blog

eBooks
Amazon
Google
Apple
Kobo
B&N

Membership Options

Join our Bookclub, Bible Study, John Damascene’s Christology or Greek Philosophy here:
Patreon for Membership Tiers

Click on the Join button below our YouTube videos, and become a Friend or Reader of The Mount Thabor Academy! Click here: YouTube Membership Level...

So, let's continue: 

“The Merciful Lord gave the Holy Spirit on earth, and by the Holy Spirit was the Holy Church established. 

“The Holy Spirit unfolded to us, not only the things of the earth but those, too, which are of heaven. 

“By the Holy Spirit we come to know the love of the Lord, which is a consuming love. Filled with love, the holy apostles went into all the world, and their spirit thirsted that all men might know the Lord.

“The prophets, beloved of the Lord, rejoiced in the Holy Spirit, wherefore the words they spoke were mighty and pleasant, for every soul would hear the word of the Lord. 

“O wonder of wonders! The Lord did not despise me, wretched sinner that I am, but by his Holy Spirit gave me to know him. 

“Grant me, O Lord, a lowly spirit,
that I may at all times thank thee
that thou didst give thy Holy Spirit on earth.
And I have him in remembrance. 
He himself helpeth me to keep him in my thoughts. 
O Holy Spirit, Sovereign King, 
what shall I, steeped in iniquity, render unto thee?
Thou didst reveal to me mystery incomprehensible.
Thou didst give me to know the Lord, my Creator.
Thou didst give me to know his measureless love for us.


“The Lord loves us so dearly that it passes description. Through the Holy Spirit alone can the soul know his love, of which she is inexpressibly aware. The Lord is all goodness and mercy. He is meek and gentle, and we have no words to tell of his goodness; but the soul without words senses this love, and would remain wrapped in its soft tranquility forever. 

“He said, ‘I will not leave you comfortless,’ and we see in truth that he did not forsake us but gave us the Holy Spirit. 

“The Holy Spirit invisibly instructs the soul. In the Holy Spirit the soul acquires peace. The Holy Spirit gladdens the soul and brings her joy on earth. How much greater joy and gladness shall we know in heaven? We are taught of the Holy Spirit to know the love of God, but there it will be complete. Oh, how infirm am I—I once knew God's love in its perfection, yet I cannot possess myself of it, and my soul weeps day after day, and the thought is ever in my mind: ‘Still have I not received that which my soul seeks.’

“When the Holy Spirit descended in tongues of fire on the apostles, experience gave them to know the meaning of love of God and love for man. 

“‘My little children, of whom I travail in birth again until Christ be formed in you,’ wrote the apostle. 

“O, how happy should I be were all nations to come to know the Lord!


“Oh Lord, do thou grant them to know thee by thy Holy Spirit. 
As thou didst give the Holy Spirit to the apostles,
and they knew thee, so grant all peoples 
to know thee, by thy Holy Spirit.”

So that's the chapter, On the Knowledge of God

When St. Silouan says: “We are taught of the Holy Spirit to know the love of God. But there”, (in the life to come), “it will be complete. O, how infirm am I”, he continues, “I once knew God's love in its perfection.” What is St. Silouan referring to? When he was in the chapel, at the mill, and, during the service, he saw the living Christ appear from the icon of Christ. And that moment actually defined his whole life thereafter. And when he says, “I once knew God's love in its perfection”— In that moment he experienced the perfect love of Christ, the perfect humility of Christ, and so on.

And it's interesting because that's what Fr. Zacharias, in his books, in The Enlargement of the Heart, in The Hidden Man of the Heart, and also in the other books too. He talks about how there are basically two aspects to almost everything. There's ascetic humility, he says, and there's charismatic humility. There is ascetic love and there is charismatic love, and so on. And what he's referring to is there’s—of course, every good thing is from above and comes down from the Father of Light. Any good thing we do, we say, we think, is given by God, and we must give thanks to God for every good thing. But there's a love and there's a humility that is to some degree, maybe a small degree ultimately, but is to some degree dependent upon our own will. So, therefore, it's dependent upon our own efforts. That's asceticism, spiritual labors, striving to fulfill the commandments of Christ. 

But what is given to the saints at the moment that they see Christ in glory is a humility and a love that transcends everything. It transcends everything. In other words, in that moment—we don't know how long it lasted, but it's not something that could last for a long time and we could survive it, so— it's given to taste of the humility of Christ, the love of Christ. And we see certain responses, certain consequences of it.

What is the fundamental consequence? You see St. Silouan coming away, this unlettered, simple monk, coming away from this experience with such a vision and a prayer for the whole world that you wonder: Where did this come from? Because in the experience of the vision of Christ in glory, something takes place—what Fr. Zacharias refers to as an exchange of lives. What is transmitted to the beholder is the energy, the life of the one who is being beheld, Christ. And just as the Lord loves all mankind, all of His creatures, and just as the Lord's humility is infinite, that is what the beholder experiences, has a taste of, and— in the case of St. Silouan—then begins a lifelong struggle to achieve this again. Because once they've experienced this, they can't go back to their former way of life. It's like someone who is madly in love and nothing can satisfy, nothing can bring peace to the soul of that person. Only the same experience again; only seeing the beloved again. And so he said, “Yet I cannot possess myself of it, and my soul weeps day after day, and the thought is ever in my mind: ‘still have I not received that which my soul seeks’”.

And, as I said, what follows on after this is a prayer for the whole world, that the whole world should receive the Holy Spirit. And this is a theme which we will return to and examine in greater detail, because it's important and it's part of the shape of the spiritual life, which we must be aware of if we are to survive the trials and tribulations, the challenges of this life. Because it's normal to go through a difficult period in the wilderness, as it were. But it's important to know how to navigate through that period of dryness when the inspiration that we once had is seemingly lost. It's seemingly lost forever. But the one who gave it to us is actually still with us. But he's giving us the opportunity, having experienced what it's like to be with Him and to have His help, then to experience what it's like to be without Him. So that when we choose, we choose on the basis of knowing. What do we want? What do we choose? Do we choose the way of the Lord, or do we prefer our own way?

So, last time we read from the chapter On the Knowledge of God. And of course, as St. Silouan says, it's one thing to know God, it's another to believe in Him. 

St. Nikolai Velimirovich, Bishop of Zhicha, who used to visit St. Silouan at St. Panteleimon’s as often as he could, and perplexed many of the monastics at St Panteleimon’s by doing so. They couldn't understand why such an erudite man, a bishop, would spend any time with the simple Silouan. And it was Bishop Nikolai who, once upon a time, when he was sick in hospital, as it happened, in London, when Fr. Sophrony visited him, and during the conversation that they had, Fr. Sophrony revealed a letter that he had received from one of Bishop Nikolai's spiritual children, St. Justin Popovich. And Justin Popovich had read the newly published, but as yet little known, Staretz Silouan, as the book used to be called, and complimented Fr. Sophrony on the publication of such a marvelous book. Among other things, St. Justin said that such a book appears perhaps every 100 years. And the other thing that he said, which struck Fr. Sophrony in particular, was that the writings of St. Silouan are like those of St. Simeon the New Theologian. To Fr. Sophrony's surprise, upon hearing this, Bishop Nikolai was in his bed, sick. He paused for a moment, thought about what St. Justin had said and then shook his head in disagreement, and said no, his word is healing. The word of St. Silouan, Bishop Nikolai insisted, was healing. And we spoke about the intensity of St. Silouan's word, and we said last time that it was born of prayer, intense, private prayer, as well as the ordinary life of the monastic community. And I told you the story about Fr. Stratonikos and St. Silouan's now famous saying that “the perfect never say anything of themselves, they only say what the Spirit inspires them to say”. 

So with all of that in mind, I wanted to begin broaching the difficult theme of obedience. Obedience in the Church; Christian obedience. This is Chapter 15 in St. Silouan's writings. That begins on page 420, (page 370 in the American edition). And I think what we shall do is begin by reading what St. Silouan has to say on obedience and then, having done that, we shall turn to the first part of the book and see what Fr. Sophrony has to say on obedience in St. Silouan, in order to give us a deeper appreciation of the Saint's teachings. So beginning our reading it’s a very brief chapter, “Concerning Obedience”, page 420 (page 370 in the American edition), in Saint Silouan in the Athonite

“Rare are they who know the mystery of obedience. The obedient man is great in the sight of God. He follows in the footsteps of Christ, who in himself gave us the pattern of obedience. The Lord loves the obedient soul and affords her his peace, and then all is well and the soul feels love towards all men. 

“The obedient man has put his whole trust in God, wherefore his soul dwells continually in God, and the Lord gives him his grace; and this grace instructs him in every good thing, and gives him the strength to abide in goodness. He sees evil but evil does not approach his soul, for the grace of the Holy Spirit is with him, which preserves him from all sin, and he is at peace, and prays to God unburdened.

“The obedient soul is beloved of the Holy Spirit, and soon knows the Lord and receives the gift of prayer of the heart. The obedient man has surrendered himself to God's will, wherefore he is given the gifts of freedom and rest in God, and he prays with mind untrammeled; but the proud and disobedient cannot pray with a single mind, however austerely they may live. They know neither the manner of the working of grace nor whether the Lord has forgiven them their sins. But the obedient man is conscious without a shadow of doubt that his sins are forgiven him, because he feels the presence of the Holy Spirit in his soul. 

“The spirit of obedience is necessary not only in monks but in everyone else, too. Even the Lord was obedient. The proud and those who are a law unto themselves prevent the indwelling of grace and therefore never know peace of soul; whereas the grace of the Holy Spirit enters with ease into the soul of the obedient, bringing joy and quiet.

“All men seek after rest and joy, but few know where to find this joy and rest, or what is required to attain them. There is a monk I have seen for thirty-five years, soul ever glad and face ever pleasant, though he is old now. This is because he is devoted to obedience. His soul is given over to God's will, and he knows not a care in the world. Filled with love for the Lord, his soul contemplates him.

“He who bears within him even a small measure of grace will submit joyously to all authority. He knows that God rules over both heaven and earth and the nether regions, over himself and his affairs, over everything in the world, and therefore he is always tranquil. “The obedient man has given himself over to the will of God and has no fear of death, for his soul is accustomed to live with God, and loves God. He has excised his own will and so neither in soul nor body is he troubled by the conflict which torments the rebellious and self-willed. 

“The truly obedient man detests his own will and loves his spiritual father, and for this he receives freedom to pray to God with undistracted mind, and his soul is free without let or hindrance to contemplate God, and rest in him. On account of his humility and the prayers of his spiritual father he soon arrives at the love of God. 

“Our manner of living is simple but requires wisdom. The Mother of God said to St Seraphim, ‘Lay upon them (nuns) obedience, and those who are obedient, wise, and circumspect will be with you and close to me.’

“You see how simple a matter is salvation. But wisdom must needs be learned by long experience. Wisdom is given of God for obedience. The Lord loveth the obedient soul, and where the Lord loveth he giveth whatsoever the soul may ask of God. As of old, so now, too, does the Lord hearken to our prayers and grant our supplications. 

“Why did the holy fathers set obedience above fasting and prayer? 

“Because feats of spiritual endeavor without obedience foster vainglory, whereas the obedient novice is simply doing as he is told and has no occasion to pride himself on what he does. Moreover, the obedient man has excised his self-will completely, and only heeds his spiritual father, wherefore he is free from every care, and can pray with an undistracted mind. When a man lives in obedience, his mind is entirely taken up by God and the precepts of his staretz; whereas the man who does not know obedience is concerned with all sorts of things, and in mind is critical of his staretz, and so cannot contemplate God. 

“I know a certain monk on whom obedience had laid a heavy burden. He had the gift of the prayer of the heart, and the Lord gave him tears to weep for the whole world; and the abbot told him: ‘This is given to you because of your obedience.’ 

“Obedience preserves a man from pride. For obedience he receives the gift of prayer and the grace of the Holy Spirit. This is why obedience ranks above fasting and praying. 

“Had the angels (the fallen angels) observed obedience, they would have continued in heaven, ever singing the glory of the Lord. And had Adam not disobeyed, both he and his seed with him would have remained in paradise.

“But even now it is possible to regain paradise through repentance. The Lord loves us dearly, despite our sins, if only we will humble ourselves and love our enemies. 

“But he who loves not his enemies will never find peace, even though he were to be set down in paradise.”

Once again, one cannot help but notice the intensity of the word of St. Silouan. But let's pause for a moment and see. Why do you think he begins with this sentence: “Rare are they who know the mystery of obedience”. It’s tempting to say that everybody knows what obedience means: do as you're told. So what is the obedience of which St. Silouan is speaking? When he says, “not only in monks but it's necessary in everyone else too”: You'll notice that St. Silouan, when he speaks—the difficulty with St. Silouan is that he's speaking of the obedience of the saints. It's the obedience of the perfect. 

Fr. Akakios is an Athonite monk, disciple of St. Porphyrios of Kavsokalyvia, and it was Fr. Akakios who closed St. Porphyrios' eyes when he died. He was with him right to the end and lived extraordinary, remarkable experiences next to his elder. He himself has an interesting history. He became a monastic late in life. He was one of the two disciples of St. Porphyrios who accompanied him back to Kavsokalyvia, when St. Porphyrios was preparing to depart this life. 

One of the things that Fr. Akakios says in a remarkable homily—there were at least 600 people in attendance and you could hear a pin drop. Because everything he said, even though he had an education in philosophy that took him from the University of Athens to the Sorbonne in Paris and so forth, he preferred to give his homily on the basis of his personal experiences of his elder, and to leave out all the theories and all the concepts and all the wonderful words that we find among the philosophers and the philosophizing theologians, and today, the psychologizing theologians as well. But one of the things that he said which stood out and is relevant to our discussion today is that, he said there are three forms of obedience that the Holy Fathers speak of. He says firstly, there is blind obedience, the obedience that most of us can relate to, because you just do as you're told, whether you do it under some form of coercion, whether you do it freely and joyfully. It's a form of blind obedience and it has its place. And perhaps that's where we begin right, that's where we all must begin. When that obedience is performed in the right Christian spirit, with the right spiritual disposition, is blessed and it leads us through, let's call it the, the praktiki: the practical, the active virtues, through the stages of purifying our passions and cultivating the virtues and leading towards the illumination of the mind. And the second form of obedience is obedience with discernment. That's not blind obedience. One is illumined and guided by the Holy Spirit and, in that, is able to discern, to judge rightly, in any given situation. To discern what? To discern the will of God. 

And Fr. Akakios says that there is yet another form of obedience which is very difficult to define, but basically it's the obedience of the saints. It’s the obedience of those who are filled with the Holy Spirit, who have become temples of the Holy Spirit. And remember there was that word from St. Maximus the Confessor's seventh Ambiguum: God and those worthy of God have one and the same energy. And that must also mean one and the same will, in the sense that the will of the saints is in perfect harmony with the will of God. Because how is the will revealed? The will is revealed by the energy. The will of God is revealed by what He does. And God and those worthy of God, His saints, have one and the same energy. One and the same, therefore, will. And on that level there is complete and utter freedom. The whole Christian life is a paradox. Those who are willing to lose their life for Christ's sake and His gospel will gain it. So if you lose your life, you gain it. If you surrender your will, you gain your freedom, and so on. The paradox of the life in Christ.

 And the point in Fr. Akakios' talk, where he explains this, was in order to say something about how St. Porphyrios himself, when he was under obedience to his elders—there were two brothers in, where he was (Kavsokalyvia), to whom he was under obedience. And Fr. Akakios said to St. Porphyrios: ‘How is it, Father, that although you were perfectly obedient to your spiritual fathers, you became so sick? In the end you had to leave the Holy Mountain, and the doctors wouldn't allow you to go back. But you were being obedient. Didn't your fathers watch over you? How is it that they didn't prevent you from suffering so much?’ And Fr. Akakios, first of all, he says St. Porphyrios said to him: ‘My child, when you are possessed of the love of God, you go forward and you don't see anything else. Nothing else can occupy your mind. You just go forward towards Christ, and you do what you have to do’. And that's why Fr. Akakios breaks it down, and said look, be careful, because St. Porphyrios was obedient to his spiritual fathers, and he did practice, as a young lad—if you recall, he was only 15 years of age when he first arrived on the Holy Mountain and was taken under the wings of Fr. Panteleimon and his brother, and he was obedient to them. 

But he said there's something unique about Porphyrios. In Porphyrios' case you noticed all three forms of obedience at the same time.

And perhaps this is the case with Silouan as well. He was obedient: he was obedient to the Abbot, he was obedient to whoever was over him at the mill, where eventually he became the monk in charge. And we see that also in St. Silouan: obedience with discernment, the gift of undistracted prayer, the gift of the Holy Spirit, the desire to do only God's will. And that necessarily involves, that necessarily implies, denying oneself; rejecting one's own will; preferring to do the will of anyone else, rather than one's own will. And for that disposition the Lord reveals His will.

And, to finish the story, so with St. Porphyrios, as he during the day would fulfill all his obediences, in the evening he was free to follow Christ without looking back. Just as when St. Simeon the New Theologian, after St. Simeon the Devout gave him the advice that he gave, and the book to read of Mark the Hermit; and then how he describes the way that his private prayer in the evening would go, when he would listen to his conscience. Remember, in Patristic theology the conscience is the voice of God in us; he would obey his conscience. 

‘You can do one more prostration.’ He would do one more prostration. Selfless, denying himself, and giving himself entirely over to the will of God. Remember the story I told you about the new coat that I had bought once upon a time, and Fr. Sophrony came and asked me, ‘How much did that coat cost?’ And I told him, bewildered at the question, and he turned it around and he said, ‘And how much would a better coat cost?’ I said, ‘Well, it would cost more’. And that's how it is in the spiritual life: the more you give, the more you receive. And you see how many times St. Silouan says the Lord loves the obedient soul. The obedient soul is in the image of the Lord's obedience to the Father. 




Saint Silouan the Athonite Chapter 8 "On the Knowledge of God" p.317-318
Silouan's vision of Christ
Fr. Zacharias: ascetic and charismatic humility and love
Response to humility of Christ
Fr. Zacharias: exchange of lives
Silouan's struggle
Trials and tribulations of the Christian life normal
St. Nikolai Velimirovich: Silouan's word healing
St. Justin Popovich: about book on Silouan
Silouan's word born of prayer
Saint Silouan the Athonite Chapter 15 "Concerning Obedience" p. 370-372
What is Christian obedience?
Fr. Akakios disciple of St. Porphyrios
Three forms of obedience
Blind obedience
Obedience with discernment
Obedience of the saints
Will of saints in harmony with will of God
Christian life a paradox
Obedience of St. Porphyrios
Obedience of St. Silouan
Self-denial
Obedience of St. Symeon the New Theologian
Conscience: the voice of God in us
St. Sophrony on the spiritual life