Growing Together
Step into a virtual garden of spiritual growth and community connection with the "Growing Together" podcast. This podcast is a nurturing space for individuals seeking to deepen their faith, cultivate relationships, and explore the boundless beauty of a shared spiritual journey.
Each episode of "Growing Together" is a breath of fresh air, where Pastor Michael, Syd, Nic, Pastor Holly, and Pastor Roger try to navigate the twists and turns of life while staying rooted in faith. Their warm and inviting presence makes you feel like you're sitting in a cozy living room, engaged in a heartfelt conversation with old friends.
Diving into topics ranging from personal growth and self-care to building resilient relationships and fostering a sense of community, the podcast aims to equip listeners with the tools to nurture their faith in all aspects of life. Through scripture readings, open discussions, and interviews with experts in various fields, "Growing Together" provides a holistic approach to spiritual development.
Whether you're a lifelong believer, a seeker on the spiritual path, or simply someone curious about how faith can shape lives, "Growing Together" offers a welcoming haven for everyone. Tune in during your morning routine, while taking a leisurely stroll, or even during a quiet moment of reflection – the podcast fits seamlessly into your daily life.
Join the "Growing Together" community and embark on a journey of discovery, growth, and genuine connection. In a world that can sometimes feel disconnected, this podcast reminds us that nurturing our faith and cultivating meaningful relationships can lead to a life that's deeply fulfilling and spiritually abundant. Subscribe now to start your journey of growing together in faith and fellowship.
Growing Together
Holiday Grief
Have you ever faced the challenge of navigating the festive cheer while dealing with the weight of loss? We share our heartfelt conversation with Alyssa, who opens up about losing her mother just before Christmas. Together, we explore the emotional complexities of grieving during the holidays, from counting the years and Christmases since her passing to the coping mechanisms that helped during those first raw months. Alyssa's journey resonates deeply, offering solace to those experiencing their first holiday season without a loved one, like her friend who faces her first Christmas without a spouse.
As we remember the loved ones we've lost, stories of hope and joy amidst grief come to light. Children keep Grandma Chrissy's memory alive through simple, joyful traditions, underscoring the contrast between adult sorrow and the innocent delight children find in everyday moments. Through shared laughter over a coffee mishap and reflections on the prophecy of Isaiah 9:6, we find peace and humor even in the depths of loss. These anecdotes remind us that while grief is inevitable, preparing for it and allowing faith to guide us can bring a sense of calm.
The conversation takes a thoughtful turn as we discuss the ways technology and prayer offer comfort. By capturing the voices and sentiments of those we've lost through QR codes, we explore how memories can be preserved while expressing a preference for genuine recollections over AI recreations. A heartfelt prayer wraps up our discussion, seeking strength and peace as we navigate the holiday season, ensuring that the presence of our loved ones remains woven into our lives. Join us as we reflect on the ongoing journey of loss, cherishing the memories that keep our loved ones close.
Well, this is kind of a special episode because it's kind of like a geez tied together takeover for growing together. It's just myself and Alyssa tonight. We are recording a special episode the week before Christmas just to get everybody into the holiday season. Oh, and to do so, let's just do this.
Speaker 2:Doesn't that just make you feel christmassy?
Speaker 1:yeah, just there's something about it, something about it, anyway. Okay, all right, I'm over it, I'm done so you weren't in the christmas mood.
Speaker 2:You are now. Yeah, right, exactly hey.
Speaker 1:So I actually, um, I kind of I didn't mean to lie to you when I told you what we were going to talk about, because we're going to talk about the book of Luke specifically, but I want to talk. I think I want to change it a little bit and this comes. This stems from a Facebook post that you made, which just made me think and made me realize that sometimes we don't always understand all of the things that are happening around us. I want to talk a little bit about, like grief at Christmas time, because you lost your mom on December 3rd two years ago, three years ago. It's so weird because it's like it's before Christmas, but it's not technically a full year. So like, do you know what I mean? So I always struggle with how many years has it actually been versus how many Christmases has it been? That's, I think, the struggle right, because this will be Christmas 3? End year 3?.
Speaker 2:Well, she passed away Before Christmas.
Speaker 1:December of 2021. Okay, so this will be Christmas 3.
Speaker 2:Yes.
Speaker 1:Yes, 21, 22.
Speaker 2:No 21, 22, 23, 24. 24. Yes, this will be 4 because she passed Okay.
Speaker 1:Yes, so we're in three years three years but four Christmases at this point. So it's just, it's really strange. I always struggle with that, but I say that to say I have both of my parents, both of my paternal grandparents. Now both of my maternal grandparents are gone, but they passed away like when I was little, so I don't really remember that my grandma and they lived far away. My grandma died when I was little, so I don't really remember that my grandma and they lived far away. My grandma died when I was an adult but again, she lived far away my entire life, so it didn't really there wasn't a super close connection with them.
Speaker 1:So I want to talk through that a little bit, because I have. I was thinking about the prophecy of Jesus's birth and that's what made me think of this particular conversation. So one of the things that I want to. I was at a meeting this evening with a friend of mine and her husband passed away from pancreatic cancer cancer of some sort this earlier this year, and so this will be her first Christmas without him, and she said that, while everybody has been incredibly gracious and invited her to all of the things she said, I'm just going to stay home for Christmas this year.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:She said I'm going to cry and it's going to be okay, but I'm going to do it at home and not in front of people, and so I want to talk about that. I want to talk about what it looks like years later and just how do you process all of those things like as as you deal with it okay so floor's yours year one. Year one was a whirlwind because we had barely buried her before christmas.
Speaker 1:Like really gotten here yeah like we were in full christmas season at that point, like we were decorated and all of the things were happening. You really couldn't slow it down at that point. So like we processed or we we survived the funeral and all of the things. But past that there was like this I guess maybe it didn't settle, it didn't set in until after christmas because everything was still crazy in life generally speaking.
Speaker 1:So there was no like easy way to to slow it down. Um, but as the year went and to be very clear, nobody in our house has forgotten about her. But, like, as the year went, you like you drag on, and then you get to her birthday and you remember that, and then you get to December 3rd and you remember that, and for you, you lost two parents on the same day. How many years apart.
Speaker 2:I don't know how many was it.
Speaker 1:I don't know, I can't do math.
Speaker 2:I don't know. 24? 24 years apart.
Speaker 1:And then Christmas comes and all of that kind of comes back. So your dad passed away when you were little. Yeah, I was four, so you don't really remember a whole lot of that, right?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I have a select. I have a few actual memories and then I have stories that people have told me, but I only have a couple actual of my memories. That's not from other stories.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and then obviously a lot more of those with your mom. So after the first Christmas, you make it through the whirlwind. Year two is still stressful because it's really setting in that it's the first time that you're going to knowingly or consciously celebrate Christmas without her.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:And then you go to year three and it starts to maybe feel a little bit easier to the people around you Because, like December 3rd hit this year, I didn't even think about it, like it didn't process in my brain at all. Hit this year, I didn't even think about it, like it didn't process in my brain at all. But not and not because I'm being insensitive, but like my emotion was a lot different than your emotion in that moment, like for me, I was trying to keep it together for you and trying to make it all make sense and like keep everything functioning. Like I was at the funeral home and you know, perform that service and did all of the things. But then year four hits and I'm starting to realize from the outside, looking in, it never really gets easier.
Speaker 2:No, I don't think so. I think you are able to deal with it differently, but I don't think it gets any easier. Yeah, it hasn't yet.
Speaker 1:What are some of the things, though? Like cause I noticed you are first, first and foremost, not a baker. You don't bake, but you bake with Adeline.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:And so to me and I and maybe, yeah, you try. She probably does better than you do, but that's okay. Thinking outside of the box, though, that's something that you do because it's something that your mom loved to do and it kind of gives that little bit of something.
Speaker 2:Yeah, is that fair yeah?
Speaker 1:Okay, Um, because I mean I couldn't get you to make me cookies before to save my life.
Speaker 2:She always told me there was no reason I shouldn't be making cookies or whatever at Christmas. She would, she would make cutouts, I would decorate them with the kids or she would just make me a bunch of cookies and she said there was no reason I shouldn't be able to well, you could, you don't want to.
Speaker 1:I think that's the difference. You can do it, you choose not to? Yeah, um, so there's that and then. But there are other things that like, we have the, the white christmas tree, that, that ceramic christmas tree. That was your, I think, my grandma jun.
Speaker 2:I think it was my grandma Junie's.
Speaker 1:Yes, so it was her grandma.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it was her grandma.
Speaker 1:So we ended up with that. What else? Oh, those silly little Santa Claus and Christmas tree thing that's in the garage window.
Speaker 2:I don't even know what you call that.
Speaker 1:They're like melted plastic. They're like plastic melted together to look like a Santa Claus, but you have those, and so it's not about the physical things, though it's more about the memories.
Speaker 2:And.
Speaker 1:I was thinking about it like long and hard when I was deciding that I was going to change this topic on you, and I was thinking about all of the things that our kids do that still remind them of your mom, because this is not the time of year that reminds them of your mom. Like your, our kids aren't going oh geez, it's christmas and grandma chrissy's not around. But I think about, like go take emmet to mcdonald's right now and get him a sausage egg or a sausage mcgriddle yeah the first thing out of his mouth.
Speaker 1:I always used to get these with grandma chrissy when I would spend the night with her, because it didn't matter to her. She'd be flat broke if he spent the night. She was gonna go get him a sausage mcgrittle one way or another. Um, what was adeline's?
Speaker 2:adeline gave me one the other day she has a hat that and the book that she really like. She remembers that the hat grandma chrissy gave her and oh, is that the cowgirl hat? No, what is it pink? It's like, I don't know, like an old lady church hat is what it?
Speaker 1:looks like oh, oh, yeah, yeah, yeah yeah, and it had like yeah, yeah, I know what you're talking about.
Speaker 2:Yeah, she remembers that one and this book that I think was for her first birthday. Maybe might have even been like a baby shower gift, but it's called grandma wishes and she always remembers like, oh, this is my grandma crazy, but that's what she calls it and at the beginning she like wrote in it. So yeah.
Speaker 1:So I guess what I was saying in that is that, while the holiday season is hard for you again, the rest of us aren't processing it the same way that you are, because we're still living life. They're upstairs playing and not even thinking about it, but they get their moments through the year. So my point is is that there's no shame in being sad at Christmas time Like that's. My friend is going to be sad at Christmas time and you can't change it. Nobody's going to fix it, nobody's going to be able to adjust that sadness for you or take it away. It's just something you're going to deal with. But we can learn to help you with it by celebrating who your mom was and all of the things that she did.
Speaker 1:And I will tell you that I was thinking of the group of people in the podcast who are normally in the podcast room with us and every one of them have lost someone close to them, where there is a deep mourning at Christmas time, and so I genuinely believe I'm super blessed because I haven't experienced that, but at the same time, it is also it would be smart of me to process that now and to think about like, okay, this is how somebody feels because I'm going to feel that way someday and to be able to figure that out like it's. I don't. I mean, maybe my parents are invincible, I don't know, but it's not likely.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:And at some point there will be death. But I was thinking about let me find my phone. I've lost my Bible, by the way.
Speaker 2:That's not good, like my preaching Bible, my pulpit Bible.
Speaker 1:I've lost it. Bible, my pulpit Bible, I've lost it. I think it's at the church, and I say that because my iPad is there. I can track my iPad and it's at the church and usually they're together.
Speaker 1:So this is a passage of scripture that our kids have memorized. It's Isaiah 9, 6. For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given, for the government shall rest upon his shoulders and his name shall be called Wonderful Counselor the Mighty. This is the time of year when we're talking about peace on earth, goodwill to men, the Prince of Peace. I think about the peace that we get every day when we're mourning a loss, when we're feeling confused or feeling broken, whatever that case may be. So you know, that's the prophecy of Jesus' birth.
Speaker 1:And then we get into the Gospels. We get into, you know, matthew, mark, luke, john, and we realize that Jesus was real. That prophecy wasn't just words that were spoken, it wasn't just some made-up story. He came, he saw, he conquered, and all he got was a t-shirt. No, so all of the things that are promised in that Prince of Peace we have. I think it's a matter of finding it and adjusting our mindset to that piece. Now I'm not saying you're not going to cry because of Jesus. I'm saying that you're probably still going to feel that emotion, but being able to feel it and say that he had something good in mind when that happened. I think about back to when your mom was sick. We watched that and it was not good. It was, you know, what we thought was one stroke, physical therapy, rehab, get better, come to stay with us. For what? How long was she with us?
Speaker 1:a couple weeks three weeks yeah this is my favorite, my favorite part of the story about your mom being with us. We were because she was never nice to me I don't think it was that she didn't like me, but she was just always had something to say. And she was sitting at the dining room table. She took that drink of coffee and she had to cough. I was standing directly in front of her. And what does she do but spit that coffee all over me, holy smokes. But then the point in front of her and what does she do? But spit that coffee all over me, holy smokes. But then the point of that was her and I were playing cards the night that she had what we assume was a second stroke. We finished that game of cards and she kept saying she was dizzy and thought she was going to throw up, called the ambulance, she went back to the hospital and she never came home after that. So you took care of her for three weeks ish give or take.
Speaker 2:That was something that was not sustainable for you, right?
Speaker 1:Not in our house, not in the house that we lived in.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Not with having to care for kids and all of the things that were going on.
Speaker 2:It just the level of care that she needed.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it wasn't realistic, and so I think you know she could have gone to a nursing home and lived there for a very long time, probably very miserably, because she wasn't able to function on her own, but she didn't have to do that.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:That there was a different level of healing that came for her that was, while not understandable or easy to accept, much better than anything that we could have ever desired for her.
Speaker 2:Yes.
Speaker 1:She had no movement in her right arm. Is that right? Limited motion.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:It was her right. It had to have been her right because she was eating with her left, if I'm not mistaken.
Speaker 2:No, like right, she no. She could use both of her arms, but right before she passed, when she was on the vent, she had another stroke, and then she couldn't use her really either. She could squeeze what's one side, but she didn't have any movement on the other side.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so there was no coming back from any of those things.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:There was no, and it was probably the hardest decision that we had to make.
Speaker 1:Whenever we finally just said and I say we because, again, we talked this through and I remember having to tell you and it didn't feel good at the time but I knew if I didn't, nobody was going to, she's not going to make it Like, we just have to make a decision and let her, let her body do what it's going to do. And that was whenever they were trying to take her off the vent, wean her off. She would go six, eight hours and be okay, and then she'd spike a fever and they'd want to put her right back on the vent and it was this whole weaning process, and then she'd have a great day and then something would go sideways and they want to put her right back on the vent. Yeah, and it was this back and forth, back and forth, back and forth. And finally the decision was made between you and your siblings and just take her off the vent and whatever happens happens. And then she came off the vent and was okay I shouldn't say okay, but yeah.
Speaker 1:Like she didn't have the fever. Yes, she was able to survive on her own and that was a big deal Because it wasn't that game anymore, it wasn't that back and forth, and the life expectancy obviously wasn't long at that point because she was pretty much she was completely nonverbal, couldn't move.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and she was pretty well asleep, like most of the time she didn't, she wasn't really awake, yeah.
Speaker 1:So all of that's hard to process and deal with in the moment, but you still go through it every day Like it's not, that wasn't a one and done, like she's gone and now you move on, it's. There's a constant process, and so I say that to say that there is no shame in being sad, there is no shame in being upset, and all of those things are perfectly healthy responses. This is the time of year when those emotions will flood back, but we have to lean on the fact that we know that the prophet Isaiah told us that Jesus was coming in, would be the Prince of Peace and that Jesus did just that yes.
Speaker 1:Because when we find peace, knowing that your mom's not in pain anymore, she's not sick, she's not hurting, none of those earthly struggles exist anymore. Now we don't know what heaven looks like. We don't know if there's a whole incomplete body walking around up there, if it's a spirit up there, but we know that the physical body isn't in pain anymore.
Speaker 1:You're right and that's what matters. I always tell people that a lot of times in death and I think about this with a congregant that just recently passed away a lot of times the physical life does not afford them the things that they deserved. And what I mean is, like your mom although I jokingly say she did not like me and I still think that's just because I took you away from her Like when we got married, we moved away.
Speaker 1:I think she's held that against me forever, but she would have given just about anybody the shirt off of her back. She would. I mean, she had some of the strangest people in and out of her house because she knew all of those people, because not many people cared for them and she did, yeah, so like she would have done any of those things. But for her to have gone through all of the things that she went through, for her to have gone through all of the things that she went through, for her to have suffered with the hardships in life that she suffered through, she didn't get what life should have given her, but I remember you telling me this. So she didn't come to church very often. On occasion she would show up, but she always listened to the live stream when we were live streaming and when they were asking her what her religious affiliation was or whatever her response to them is, whatever Michael Brindley is, as if they could just Google me and know that I don't know. And she had given her life to the Lord during one of those live stream services. And we know that, even if we lead one person to Christ, that we have done our duty, and so she may have hated me, but hey, at least I did something right.
Speaker 1:So we don't talk about this stuff to make people feel bad or be upset. It's to find comfort in knowing you're not the only one experiencing it today. Christmas is going to come and it's going to be hard. And then New Year's is going to come and it's going to be hard. And then you're going to have a birthday, and then you're going to celebrate a graduation or whatever, and those events are going to continue to come. And it's okay to be sad, it's okay to be emotional about it, but you have to remember that none of that matters because at the end of the day, so long as they've accepted Christ, they're whole and complete.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I remember the first Mother's Day. I was seeing my therapist like the week before that, and she said she asked what the plan was for Mother's Day and I said I don't know. I said I don't really want to do anything, I don't want to go anywhere. And she said then stay at home and cry. If that's what you want to do, like you need to give yourself the space to cry or go out and do something or whatever. But you deserve to do whatever you want to do.
Speaker 2:And so I feel like that goes for, I mean, Christmas is the same. Like your friend said, she just wants to stay home, and a lot of people might see that as like, oh, you don't need to be alone.
Speaker 1:but sometimes you do, and maybe need is a strong word. Maybe you don't need to be alone, but maybe you want to be and that's a perfectly acceptable place to be.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:The kids told me the other day I don't remember how they told me the story, but that you guys had stopped at the cemetery. It must have been close to the third, somewhere around that time.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I don't remember when it was, but it was yeah.
Speaker 1:And that's not common for you because, like to you, that's not where she's at like yeah, easton had asked to go so and we were.
Speaker 2:We were on parish street and so it was just really close and I said, yeah, we can go yeah, and then they were really surprised when they got there and they couldn't find her quickly yeah like they.
Speaker 1:You had to had to point out where she was at there's. That's why I say that you know, we keep that memory of her alive through other things and doing even just the baking of the cookies and the you know, whatever you know, fireworks, christmas lights, all of those things, and again to us they seem trivial or daunting sometimes, but those are things that she things. And again that to us they seem trivial or daunting sometimes but those are things that she enjoyed and we try to keep that alive yeah so I won't next we'll do a snowman christmas tree no, we won't.
Speaker 1:No, we won't.
Speaker 2:My sister, and I was just talking we don't know where her ornaments were, for that she's like do you know where they're at? And we don't know where her ornaments were, for that she's like do you know where they're at?
Speaker 1:Hopefully somebody stole them, because, goodness gracious, what else do we have? We have that weird snowman that she painted. Did she paint that, or did she, like find that at a thrift store somewhere?
Speaker 2:Yeah, she painted that at the ceramic store in Denison yeah.
Speaker 1:It's got sand on it. I don't know why it's got sand on it. It's got sand on it. See sand run up the one side of it glued on. I don't know. I don't know either. What else did? We have a lot of like weird tchotchkes, those weird things that used to hang in our kitchen, the teapot and the flour and the. I so desperately want to get rid of those. You won't let me. What else I?
Speaker 2:don't know.
Speaker 1:One of the other things that one of the other things that I did fairly early on was there was um. In my opinion and this is not something I've experienced yet, but I have okay. So this is where I get weird on everybody who's listening I think about my mortality pretty regularly and like the fact that I won't be around forever. There are things, there are events in my kids lives that I will not see, and that's very real to me. So what I've done is like um, because I want to be part of christmas for the rest of their lives and for their grandkids lives and all of those things.
Speaker 1:So I have recorded my voice reading towards the night before christmas and embedded it in a youtube video that only they can access, with the link, and then I have a copy of the book with a QR code in the back that they can scan it and they can have me read them. Twas the Night Before Christmas. I also doubled it on a flash drive. That's as a bookmark, in case something were to ever happen, but I want them to have a way of hearing it. That's very real to me because I know that I won't always be around. But I've also thought about, like what Christmas?
Speaker 1:traditions do we have in our house that our kids will be able to take with them. Yeah, like, not just like physically like they fight over the polar express train. We have a polar express that runs around the train and they fight over that.
Speaker 2:Um, but like the Christmas make it to be passed down probably not.
Speaker 1:Yeah, no, that thing will be broken, although it's made it quite a while, I mean, we've had it since the big boys were little yeah but it only comes out for four weeks out of the year, so, um, but I think about the christmas pickle.
Speaker 1:They may each buy their own pickle, but that's a like, it's a tradition we've always done, and I think about all of those things. And how do we keep that going for our kids too? And then how do we instill? Because when you are gone, are you your dad's only child? Oh, no, duh, I knew that.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:I knew that, but there's not much left past that. Our kids didn't know him, yeah. They never met him, so they never met him, so like I never met him, uh, which is probably good for me, cause he probably would have beat me up but, um, at least the things that you share with them, they're able to take with them.
Speaker 1:Yeah, but with your mom. They knew her, so they're going to have those, those memories and those traditions or those things. Um, with one of the the points for us, just this year, we went to the lions club for your grandma grandpa's anniversary. Yes, because they wanted me to sing, for he's a jolly good, or their whatever song they wanted me to sing and I refused, and they were like what was that this year?
Speaker 1:yes, it was this year, because we walked in. And I walk up to your sister and, without missing a beat, I say is your mom coming?
Speaker 1:because we hadn't been in that building since your mom had passed away yeah and like I caught myself saying it, I stopped and I said to her I said I'm going to say this to you just because, like I have to get it out of my head. But and she's like it is, it really is the first time we'd been in that building since she passed away. So it's little things like that that never truly go away. Like you just find yourself, and I'm sure for probably the first year, you guys facetimed every morning you, your sister and your mom for the first year.
Speaker 2:That was probably a challenge to not want to get up and yeah, like it's the simple stuff that you forget that how quickly it's connected to something, habit breaking up right the a habit, or and it's not like you're, you're able to to slowly break it it's cold turkey, like you just can't do that anymore.
Speaker 1:So, but what I was saying was there is that can that constant desire to hear her voice or to be able to talk to her, or whatever. And we found a couple of audio clips, one of her singing happiest girl in the whole USA. That was post stroke, though.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:So her voice wasn't as strong, but she was singing that. And then what did she say at the end? Something about I love you. I can't remember exactly, but I turned that into a QR code and that is forever embedded on YouTube and you guys, like your sister has a wall plaque with that QR code on it, so at any point she can scan that and hear her mom saying happiest girl in the whole USA and hear her say I love you.
Speaker 2:And those are important.
Speaker 1:Yeah yeah, Technology has come a long way. Like I don't know that we want to recreate your mom with AI or anything wild like that, but like being able to still hear her voice is like there's some value in that, so Any parting wisdom.
Speaker 2:Cry. If you need to cry, yep um no.
Speaker 1:I'm glad you thought about it.
Speaker 1:I just thought about it before you said, no jeez, okay, well, I'll just pray us out for this evening then.
Speaker 1:Heavenly Father, as we sit here in your presence, I just thank you for all of the lives of those who have gone before us. Father, that just as we sit here, we just find peace from the author of all things that are good and whole. Father, I thank you for just continuing to bless us, to lead us, to guide us and direct us, father, to just help us keep these memories alive. Father, I pray that you just continue to lift us up, that you give us strength to get through the holidays, father, and we just thank you for all of your goodness. We know all good things come from you and we thank you for that. We stand here believing believers, father, that our loved ones are whole and complete in your presence, and I pray, lord, that you just continue to just give us comfort, all of the comfort that we need. Father, we thank you and we praise you. We give you honor and glory in your precious son, jesus' name, amen.
