Growing Together

Faith Across Denominations: Exploring Worship Traditions

• Organic Church • Season 3 • Episode 12

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Standing in the back of a different church denomination, watching unfamiliar worship practices unfold – we've all felt that momentary discomfort. But what if these differences actually reveal something beautiful about our collective faith journey?

This episode starts with playful nostalgia over Pauly Shore movies before pivoting to a heartfelt story about an Elvis impersonation contest. One performer dreams of winning national competitions while another is perfectly content with regular shows at an Amish country flea market. It's a perfect metaphor for how we approach faith – some with elaborate ambitions, others finding joy in simpler expressions.

The conversation takes unexpected turns through JFK conspiracy theories and recently declassified files, touching on how people can examine the same evidence yet reach completely different conclusions – much like denominations reading the same Bible but developing distinct worship traditions.

The heart of the discussion explores the rich tapestry of Christian worship styles. From the call-and-response patterns of Presbyterian services to the ceremonial rhythms of Catholic Mass, from traditional Methodist hymns to spontaneous Pentecostal expressions – each tradition offers a unique approach to honoring God. Even within the same denomination, churches can vary dramatically in their worship style. As one host beautifully puts it: "Some people are on the bus, some in a car, some on a buggy... Some are on their feet with no shoes on, like us."

What emerges is a celebration of unity in diversity. While visiting another denomination might initially feel uncomfortable, these experiences ultimately remind us that despite our different paths, we're all journeying toward the same destination. As the Community Lenten services bring various churches together, we're reminded that what unites us is far stronger than what sets us apart.

How does your church worship? Have you ever visited a denomination completely different from your own? Share your experience with us!

Speaker 1

I don't know, I don't know, hey, back to movies real quick. So we were talking about Airheads, Encino man, Bio Dome, Howard the Duck what else did we?

Speaker 2

Well, I was going to throw Son-in-Law in there.

Speaker 1

Oh my gosh Molly.

Speaker 2

Shore, because in that movie, when he's at the college, encino man shows up. Yes, yep, yep, I forgot about that.

Speaker 1

That was Son-in-Law. I recently watched that, One of my favorite movies ever.

Speaker 2

It's hilarious.

Speaker 1

I like it when he gets off of the airplane and they see him for the first time, when he learns how to feed the pigs on the roller skates oh how could I forget?

Speaker 3

See, that's another one of Jarvie's favorites. Boy cut the boots down. Yeah, Just the bottom part.

Speaker 2

I'm not sure that.

Speaker 3

I've ever seen it Now that one was worth watching one time.

Speaker 1

Oh no, Not the 20 times. They're all worth watching. What year?

Speaker 2

was that one, oh, I don't even know.

Speaker 1

Hold on, I'll look.

Speaker 2

Probably 95.

Speaker 1

Yeah, definitely 90.

Speaker 3

That curly hair? Yeah, just like kind of be bops around 93.

Speaker 1

Oh 93.

Speaker 5

I like it when he's on the combine.

Speaker 1

Yes, and he's singing John Denver.

Speaker 5

Yeah, some John Denver yeah.

Elvis Competition Challenges

Speaker 1

Yeah, good stuff. Hey, nick, I want to just share a fun Elvis tidbit with you for today. So I signed up for a competition. There were 15 contestants. I just recently found out that they extended the deadline now it's like 25 and 25 contestants.

Speaker 1

I have no problem with that. Here's my complaint. This is a super entry-level contest. Up at the point when I had signed up, it was mostly like guys who had never been in competitions before, guys who had never, could never compete in big competitions like the Nashville Elvis Festival, things like that. Now it's this list of headliners that are all like none of us stand a chance.

Speaker 2

Really None of us stand a chance.

Speaker 1

Oh now don't, no, seriously Like these guys have won the Nashville Elvis Festival, which is an ultimate qualifier.

Speaker 4

These guys have won, so the extra 10 people they let in have all been like major major headliners.

Speaker 2

Other places are they afraid they didn't get a big enough draw.

Speaker 1

is that maybe why they let them in? That's my guess. Is they felt like, okay, it's so entry level that we really don't have like people aren't gonna buy tickets to come. So I'm a little bit peeved, yeah, but I'm like you know what, I'm gonna go, going to go and have a good time, so didn't think anything beyond that. I'm like you know, I'm going to go have a good time, sold all of my Elvis belts to buy new ones.

Speaker 1

Okay, because mine, some of mine snapped in the front versus having the hook system like Elvis did. So I sold all of mine, ordered all new when I Nashville who bought one of them. He bought my peacock belt, as a matter of fact, so I mailed it to him. He messaged me the other day and said hey, dude, I wore your belt on stage. It looked fantastic. Thanks so much. Yada, yada. So now we're we strike up a conversation. It turns out he was at the Elvis festival. At the Nashville Elvis festival placed in the top 10. Okay, didn't get any higher. He didn't get top five, but placed, but placed top 10. Um, and he starts giving me pointers on my elva show. Now I don't take offense to that because, whatever I'm like, but, dude, you didn't even place top 10, like he's telling me, like you should stand with your feet, spread more I'm like vocally.

Speaker 1

I will match you note for note. Dude, like, don't like, whatever, he never mind. Let's just say that, okay, constructive criticism is fine, but you're gonna.

Speaker 2

You got a place before you can call me, yeah yeah, if you, if you've asked for it right, if I would have said hey, man, did you see my videos?

Speaker 1

what do you think he didn't he just have any point, or just came in, just came in.

Speaker 2

I don't know about that.

Speaker 1

And it's whatever. Like I said, he didn't hurt my feelings. I said, hey, thanks for the advice, and I did think about it this morning when I was showering. I was like you know what? It's not terrible advice.

Speaker 4

But I also have never considered, like I'm not trying to win the ultimate contest ever in my life.

Speaker 1

But that's his dream. Like that's what he wants to do. That's his pinnacle. Me, I'm like man. I got a residency at the flea market in Amish country. I'm pretty good about myself. There's just a difference in desire. Like that's what he does for a living. I don't plan to do that. Do you do that monthly? Now, I don't. We haven't established an exact rotation yet, but it sounds like monthly, maybe even twice a month, just depending on.

Speaker 4

Where was that?

Speaker 1

Walnut Creek Flea Market.

Speaker 4

Okay.

Speaker 1

Yeah, and that just happened on a whim. I had reached out to the lady who owns it. We did travel shows together many years ago and I just said, hey, listen, I know you used to have an Elvis. If you don't have one anymore, hit me up. If you do, I don't want to take away from him. You know good, bad or indifferent whether he was good or not, I just didn't want to take away from him. And she said, yeah, that'd be great. When can you stop by and chat? And I was like, well, Thursday would work, so I pop in on Thursday. We're chatting a little bit, and she goes. Okay, and she's running her finger down the counter. She goes this saturday.

Speaker 4

it was that fast so, uh, yeah, she must not have ran her finger down too too far. Then she's like oh okay, yeah, ah, there, it is that one's open um.

Speaker 1

So it was funny, because the girl behind the desk who writes the checks and does all of her like accounting stuff, she said to me she goes and what do you do? I said, oh, I do, elvis. And she said really.

Speaker 1

And I said yeah, she got a laugh and I heard her say well, he must be young Elvis. I came out of that dressing room, dude, I thought they were going to lose their stinking minds. It was, and I wore powder blue for the first half and then changed to my tie. It was crazy. At one point there was just a total backup where the stage was at, which is in front of the pretzel shop Total backup. Nobody could get through because everybody had stopped, Everybody. Just a dead stop in the middle.

Speaker 2

We had a great time.

Speaker 1

We had a really good time, so I was thankful for that opportunity. Hopefully we get all of the bookings done and we can make it happen more regularly, but we'll see.

Speaker 4

Nick, I got to ask.

Speaker 2

Hold on, okay, I saw, some pictures of Cash and the King oh at the Amish Country Theater and I was just curious about the talent there.

Speaker 1

Yeah, I don't really want to talk about that. I have some hurt feelings over that.

Speaker 2

I'm thinking like why doesn't Michael do that?

Speaker 1

They won't let me.

Speaker 2

Because I'm looking at, I'm like ah.

Speaker 1

Yeah, they won't let me. So the guy who does Elvis, he. I could go on for hours. Let's just put it that way Good, bad or indifferent. I could go on for hours. Nice enough, guy Not. He's not an Elvis. He might be an Elvis fan, but he's not. He doesn't wear jumpsuits. It is a tribute, not an impersonation. That's what he. That's how he builds that show.

Speaker 1

However, they put Elvis on the billboard on all of the digital marketing. So you look at that and go, oh, this is probably. And then you get there and it's the guy that's in all of their comedy variety shows. They're saying, in their comedy variety sings Elvis songs. It's really it.

Speaker 1

And I said to them one time I'm like, hey, if you guys ever want to make a change, just let me know. I'm sure we can work it out. And they won't, they just won't. So fine by me, whatever. Whatever. It is interesting though. So that was actually the very first show that my wife and I ever saw there whenever they hired us. When they hired me, I say us, but they did hire us. But when they hired me, um, but it was not him doing Elvis, it was a different guy. Heavy set Didn't wear jumpsuits, he wore like what we would call it was casual wear bell bottom pants, puffy sleeve shirt and a belt. This dude was terrible. I'm talking it was. So I'm sitting and we're dead center. Is this really happening? Wide-eyed mouth agape and they're like how was the show? And I'm like it was good, it was good.

Speaker 1

Yeah, they swiftly changed from him yeah.

Speaker 4

Okay, jfk. Classified files.

Speaker 2

Have you read them All, 32,000 pages he?

Speaker 1

started. Here's what I'm told. I'm told there's nothing in there that we don't already know. I heard there's nothing earth-shaking.

Speaker 2

Yeah, mostly, I heard it mostly will explain how the CIA worked during that time. Yeah, so, yeah, I haven't heard anything mind-blowing come out of this.

Speaker 1

Yeah, it was the same with the Epstein files. When they released those, there was nothing in there that we hadn't already seen.

Speaker 4

Yeah.

Speaker 2

Well, my opinion is, they've destroyed whatever they didn't want us to see, right?

Speaker 1

And even if they haven't destroyed that, if we ever did get to see it, it would be so heavily redacted we wouldn't know anything yeah. The release of files is one thing, the release of viable files or usable files or important files, is a completely different thing.

Speaker 2

So I'm sure there'll be some information that will be of use to historians, but nothing Somebody's writing a book about it.

Speaker 1

Let's be sure of that.

Speaker 2

I watched a press conference with uh, the woman that is heading up this, you know investigation is that pam bondy? Uh, no, she's. She kind of looks, uh I don't know if she's latina or what she is, but long dark hair and there's, and then I think there's a a guy there too. And uh, this woman, during this press conference she made the statement that she believes there was two shooters yeah, second gunman on the grassy knoll she didn't back it up with any information she, she just said it yeah and I'm like, okay, well, you know, we're all about transparency here yeah you know explain and she didn't explain why she felt that way but here's I thought well, maybe it'll come out with all of this.

Speaker 1

Yeah, you can get. I mean, you watch that as a pruder film over and over again. I personally cannot see how that shot came from the back.

Speaker 4

Yeah.

Speaker 1

To save my life. I can't see that. I mean, if you've seen it right, yes, it is intense, and I can't imagine an entry wound could do that, cause usually it's on exit that we make a mess. Right and it came out the backside messy.

Speaker 2

So how did that happen? I thought it was the side in the front. That's messy.

Speaker 1

Mm-mm. No, jackie was on the back of the car.

Speaker 2

I know.

Speaker 1

Catching all of the blowout. Yeah, it's the back. No, it's the back, because if you look at the autopsy photos that they took at Parkland Hospital, the back is wide open.

Speaker 2

Yeah, yeah, okay.

Speaker 1

Because they got him through the neck right.

Speaker 2

Yep, yeah.

Speaker 1

Is that the one that hit the governor in the wrist?

Speaker 2

That might have been the third shot, yeah.

Speaker 1

But like there was, yeah.

Speaker 2

I'm not an expert on this.

Speaker 1

Well, and they said that there's the type of firearm that he was using. It would have been hard for him to get off three shots that fast.

Speaker 4

Yeah.

Speaker 2

There's people argue he was well within.

Speaker 4

And maybe he was.

Speaker 1

I'm in the range to do it.

Speaker 2

So I've heard both.

Speaker 1

Yeah.

Speaker 2

Both scenarios played out?

Speaker 1

Yeah, but the ones that say he could have those are the ones being paid by the CIA. No, I'm just kidding.

Speaker 2

I don't know, I don't know, I really I don't know.

Speaker 1

We won't post any photos in the comments of this.

Speaker 2

I've never been one way or the other on that one.

Speaker 1

I love a good conspiracy and I love to argue the opposite of whatever anybody else thinks. So that's why Elvis isn't dead, by the way, Right.

Speaker 2

Yeah, oh, I saw a headline this week that they think Jim Morrison is still alive. Oh interesting that somebody has pictures of just got these new pictures and they are pretty certain it's him that he faked his death and lives in Paris and whatnot?

Speaker 1

Yeah, I think Elvis still lives at Graceland.

Speaker 2

He just lives upstairs. He's still upstairs, just upstairs. He's not allowed to go there, so he can't go upstairs. That's why he don't let you up there.

Speaker 1

Yep, I did read the other day that his aunt, delta, lived in Graceland even after they opened it, which I knew that but didn't realize to the extent. So Elvis's aunt lived with them while he was alive. When Elvis died, pretty much everybody left except for Delta. She stayed in the house. So when you toured the house you couldn't see her bedroom, which was Gladys's bedroom If you go on the tour of the bedroom towards the back, and you couldn't see the kitchen, because that was kind of the two spots that she went to. However, she was known to belittle guests as they were walking through the mansion or on the ground, because she didn't want them there. I'm like the mansion, or on the ground because she didn't want them there, that's pretty awesome.

Speaker 4

She's probably a feisty little girl.

Speaker 1

Yeah, when you look at the pictures, you would assume that by looking at her too, huh Wild to think she lived in a museum. She physically lived in a museum, weird.

Speaker 5

I wonder if she had any ghosts. I don't know.

Speaker 1

Well that's the episode for the night.

Speaker 2

Have a great night you know the one going back to JFK real quick. The one thing that has always troubled me about that whole day is the beginning at the breakfast, when they give JFK the cowboy hat and they say you need something to protect you from the rain.

Speaker 3

It wasn't the rain.

Speaker 2

And the thing is he did not like to wear hats. So it was almost like, and I grew up, my grandparents and my family, they loved JFK. My grandparents, uh, and my family, they love jfk. And I grew up with them always saying that was texas way of saying you're getting it today yeah by giving him that hat and saying we think you need something to protect you from the rain.

Speaker 1

Interesting, and they knew what he didn't like wearing hats though yeah, it's almost like a jab you know interesting, I didn't know that so yeah, that's the one thing I don't when I mean I watch, see that every time. I'm like I've watched that breakfast a million times because I thought it was fascinating that jackie didn't come to breakfast. They ended up making her come downstairs.

Speaker 4

They had a like.

Speaker 2

They filmed this breakfast yes, really they filmed a lot of that whole day yes, that that's what I'm saying.

Speaker 1

That that's the bizarre part to me is how much of it is documented and so well, yeah, I mean the time he gets off the plane to like, everything is very well documented.

Speaker 2

But in fairness, he was also really the first television president yeah, it was the first president to ever really be you know, jackie was almost more famous than he was and that was the whole reason she went with him on this particular trip is because they really thought that she would help help him and so when she wasn't going to come down for that breakfast, they're like no, you don't understand, she has to come down. All these women have come to see her.

Speaker 1

And the joke that he made that day was that he became known as the man who accompanied Jackie Kennedy to Paris. He's the president of the United States. He didn't matter. Jackie was the one that mattered, yeah that was a big deal yeah. And all the way down to Lyndon Johnson taking the oath of office, with Jackie standing next to him in bloodstained clothes. All of it was intentional. They didn't want her to change, they wanted her standing there.

Speaker 2

She didn't want to change.

Speaker 1

No, Looking that way so that they what she said was I want them to see what they've done. It was bizarre. That whole thing to me is crazy. There's some really weird connections between the Kennedy assassination and the Lincoln assassination. Lincoln's secretary's last name was Kennedy and Kennedy's secretary's last name was Lincoln, which is just one of those weird nuances. One was shot in a theater and the person hid in a warehouse and the other was the opposite. Like it was just very strange, yeah.

Speaker 2

And I just caught this Manson documentary this new one, and it's all focused on the CIA. Same psychiatrist that worked for the cia that they were working on uh experiments with lsd and trying to control people's minds, they said is linked to manson and this doctor. But he's the same psychiatrist that went in and uh observed jack ruby and he's the one that said he's too ill to stand trial.

Speaker 1

Really, because he was on LSD.

Speaker 2

Well, just like they're just saying, so, the CIA not only has something to do with Manson and his behavior and what went on there. It was almost like it's far-reaching. Yeah, it really is. But when they tie certain things in, you're going, oh man, this, this is all you know tied together, and then so they're there. They made these comparisons between the JFK assassination and the events that took place with the Manson family in the late 60s.

Speaker 1

Let's just let's just all CIA related. Ask the question did we really land on the moon? Did we, Did we?

Speaker 5

I don't know, I don't know. Is there wind on the moon?

Speaker 1

Well, so if you look at the video, that's, the big one is that the flag is waving and it shouldn't wave, but they're saying that it's from the way that it was stuck into the lunar soil, because there's actually a cord that holds the flag so that it would stay spread out.

Speaker 5

They got a little electric motor in there.

Speaker 1

They're pushing it no no, but when they stuck it in the ground it still jiggled like it's a hole. Yeah, I don't know. I don't know.

Christians Across Denominational Lines

Speaker 4

I was like the ones that came back from the ISS. There was a picture that showed the one lady you know up in space and like pale as can be, and then another picture of her coming back and like just tan as can be, and they're like is this the same?

Speaker 1

lady moonburn, moonburn, yeah right but she um set a record for the most time space walking by a female. Well, what else are you gonna do? Yeah, might as well go out and enjoy the atmosphere.

Speaker 4

Break records Eight days, and it ended up being nine and a half months. Can you?

Speaker 1

imagine, and they stand to be very rich people, even if they weren't before, because I mean that's not going to end well, oh, yeah, did she pack hair dye Because there was not any gray.

Speaker 4

Yeah, that's true too.

Speaker 1

Maybe you don't age on the moon. Maybe, like when you're on the International Space Station, you don't age.

Speaker 4

Yeah, she was very gray, like black and white, like salt, and pepper in the first picture and then the recent picture is like very yeah.

Speaker 1

Yeah, maybe they gave her a spray tan before they put her out and they dyed her hair for her real quick. I thought it was interesting. Did you see him being wheeled out in those really big wheelchairs? I thought that was really interesting. I guess it has something to do with like blood clots and like, because there's no gravity, their blood flows differently. It's a whole like when they get here, they have to like rebuild muscle mass and things like that. So, okay, interesting, very interesting. All right, you ready? I thought this was a timely question. Have you ever seen Christians from other denominations worshiping? What did you learn from that? The reason I picked this one is the community Lenten services right now, so I thought like this would be a good conversation to have. Don and I got to enjoy the message last week what campfire songs were they singing?

Speaker 1

oh my gosh. I wish I could remember off the top of my head. But it was fun, wasn't it? They didn't do power in, but it was fun, wasn't it? Power in the blood. I remember that, no, wasn't it power?

Speaker 3

in the blood. They didn't do power in the blood it was something.

Speaker 1

Blood, though. Nothing but the blood. What can wash away my sins? Nothing but the blood of Jesus. I can't remember all of them, but it was a good time. So I've known John for a long time. You've known John for a long time. Sid, wonderful man, it's just such a different experience being there during worship. It's his wife playing piano, yeah, four people singing, and then he grabs a microphone and jumps in, and then that's just how they.

Speaker 4

You know what, though? That's how Jeff was before that too.

Speaker 1

That's what? Well, it's.

Speaker 1

Jeff kind of was more on the keyboard every now and then. But yeah, it's just a very unique um experience at a place like that. So they only seat a hundred people. There were over a hundred in the building so it was like for them probably felt really good to have such a full house, or bringing up folding chairs out of the basement, um. But overall it was really interesting to see because there were Methodists there, there were Presbyterians there, there were Pentecostals there. I mean, it's a Pentecostal church but lots of people from different denominations. But what I found the most interesting, that when Pastor Holly was delivering the message there was one thing that worked for everybody. She told a goofy joke and everybody laughed and I mean it's what changed. Honestly, it's what flipped that uncomfortable start to that very comfortable like OK, we can go now yeah.

Speaker 1

Yeah, it was really interesting to watch that happen. Once everybody was like OK, because I got to introduce her. And once they realized we aren't just crazy Pentecostals, right, they were like OK, this is you know, she didn't do anything, she wasn't speaking in tongues or you know, throwing snakes out into the audience or anything like that. But once they got a handle on it, it was a great message and it was a great time to be with everybody.

Speaker 2

Yep that's the whole episode, I can only say it from just growing up, just being well, and you know I've been to Catholic funerals Sit, stand, kneel, pray, yee-haw. And that's quite the experience.

Speaker 3

Funerals and weddings. Yeah, weddings just as bad.

Speaker 2

So that's something a lot just very ceremonial. You know, everything is just very I'm sure every Catholic funeral or wedding is pretty much the same, but they I'm sure every Catholic funeral or wedding is pretty much the same, but they all have a yep, it's very like I said structured, Just growing up in a Methodist church.

Speaker 2

it was just yeah, they're singing hymns. You know, you stand up, you sing a hymn, you sit down and preach for a little bit. You stand up, sing a hymn, sit down. That's what I remember as a kid. In my mind that's what I thought all churches are like. That's how church is. You don't realize that all the churches that you drive past there's a lot of different tradition to what they do and how they worship and all that kind of thing. So yeah, I can only say from what I've experienced, in my lifetime, I can't say, since I've joined this church, I haven't.

Speaker 4

Right.

Speaker 2

Besides our own other four square in Denison, yeah. I don't think I've attended another church since that time. What?

Speaker 1

were you going to say? You said Presbyterian, yeah, you need to go to a Presbyterian church. Well, we're going to do that tonight, because tonight we're at Denison Presbyterian for community Lenten service, railway Chapel, over across from the police station in the city building in Denison. Okay, I thought so.

Speaker 5

Yeah, but it's definitely different yeah definitely different.

Speaker 1

Yeah, so definitely different. One of the things I struggle with with the Presbyterian church is the call and response yeah, lutheran is like that too right.

Speaker 4

I don't know, I'm not sure.

Speaker 1

Explain that. So call and response is they will read something and it will be like whatever, and in your little program you get your little, your little pamphlet when you walk in. In bold is the part that you read back, and so the congregation together reads back the next line, and they may do that two or three different times or it may be one long passage that they do that with, but it's uh yeah.

Speaker 3

Now growing up Methodist.

Speaker 1

our church did that, you did call and response yeah, and it's nothing wrong with it, it just is very strange to me and it's part of the part of his message.

Speaker 2

No, no.

Speaker 1

Like the pre message, so you have might have two or three songs. Then there's a call and response. All of that is really pre word. After the word maybe a call and response again, or a song or whatever.

Speaker 4

But that's what I was going to say. My grandma she was Lutheran. So like growing up, like you said, like standing and sitting, but there were times like I was very familiar with, like Bethel a lot of times I'm like, oh, you know, we'll sing like 30, 40 minutes and then we'll sit down for the whole time. But the Lutheran, I think like they did the call and response, but kind of broke it up in between songs.

Speaker 5

Yeah.

Speaker 4

So then I was always like looking at my grandma, like side eyeing her, I'm like, oh, I got to sit down now, oh.

Speaker 5

I got to stand up.

Speaker 1

You know, We'll probably experience that tonight. That would be my guess. So they have an organist there and I don't know that they'll play the organ tonight. They may just play the piano. They have a huge grand piano. I mean, it's like OG to the church grand piano, and that church is fascinating. By the way, if you don't know the story, no-transcript sanctuary huh, really interesting. Yeah, that was built by railway workers. That whole building was built by railway workers.

Speaker 1

Um, but my guess is is we'll do a couple of songs and then probably a call and response. Another song and then introduction of whoever's speaking tonight would be. My guess is we'll do a couple of songs and then probably a call, and response another song and then introduction of whoever's speaking tonight would be my guess, Because they try to keep it fresh for all of us Pentecostals, you know.

Speaker 2

So do you think people get offended by different denominations Depends on the process of worship, or is it more that they're just uncomfortable?

Speaker 3

Uncomfortable.

Speaker 4

Me too, I think uncomfortable, because they see that we're all like have the same end goal.

Speaker 1

Most of us, most of us yeah. There are some that I question. Yeah, just travel to that end goal is a little different.

Speaker 5

Yeah, there are some that I question. Yeah, just travel to that end goal is a little different. Yeah, some people are on the bus, some people are in a car, a rail car Yep. Some people are on a buggy.

Speaker 4

Yeah. You know Some people are on their feet with no shoes on, like us.

Speaker 1

Yeah, they're shoedabakers. Shoedabakers, or is that rud to bake the? Uh, yeah, I think it's uncomfortable, and even for me it's not necessarily uncomfortable as much as it is like, oh wait, wasn't supposed to do that. Oh, we're standing right now like it's that, like I'm not sure, because I've never done that. Um, I don't think there's any offense. I will tell you that, like I would guess that if somebody was going to be offended this is not a dig at any of these denominations it would be the Presbyterians and the Methodists who come to a Pentecostal church Because to them worship is singing songs out of a hymnal and their church is traditionally pretty quiet and very relaxed, and they come to a church like here and worship for us is a little bit different, it's a little more excitable. So it would and again, I don't know if offended is the word as much as they're like I don't know what just happened in there like confused.

Speaker 1

It's too loud. Yes, yeah, it's too loud. Well, turn your hearing aid down. Huh, say what? Yeah, are any of you?

Speaker 5

familiar with the term. Huh, eh Say what.

Speaker 2

Yeah, are any of you familiar with the term Calvinism.

Speaker 1

Yes, so Is that still.

Speaker 2

Well, that was big in the During the Civil War, but it's so the Calvinism Calvinists are now?

Speaker 1

Are they presbyterian? Are they because john wesley was baptist? He was methodist methodist methodist. So I think, hold on, let me just I thought, uh, the presbyterians were big on the calvinist. Yeah, maybe that's it, because I it's like the denomination has advanced to now be a presbyterian yeah, but that's kind of like like a fatalistic type attitude, I believe.

Speaker 4

I'm thinking of another one, wesleyan, yeah.

Speaker 1

And that would have been John Wesley, so that would have become Methodist and you can still have Wesleyan churches but it's really now is mostly Methodist church from my understanding.

Speaker 4

Okay.

Speaker 1

John Calvin, protestant churches are.

Speaker 2

Yeah, protestant was big during Calvinistic church 19th century too.

Speaker 1

Yes, yes, so we can go to the Encyclopedia Britannica and look up the exact definition. Trying to give you some bullet points here, but there aren't any. No, it is a lot.

Speaker 5

Like I said, there weren't any.

Speaker 1

They're not bullet points, it's just a lot of text. Oh, it's probably what the church would have been like too, so they would have been Lutheran as well. They agreed on justification by faith. The sole authority is scripture, sacrament, the Lord's Supper, which, again, is a lot of the stuff that we agree with as well. We just go a couple of steps further.

Speaker 5

You just get a little more wild. They believe that.

Speaker 3

God has predetermined who will be saved and who will not be?

Speaker 1

Yes, so that is also Jehovah's Witness, because only so many people will be saved according to the Jehovah's Witness. Is that right? And what is that number? 144,000.

Speaker 3

144,000.

Speaker 1

I knew it wasn't a lot 144,000. That's it.

Speaker 4

That's, that's it. That's all. It's getting in quit knocking on my door. There's already there's already more. There's like how many jehovah witnesses do you think are in? Yeah, like that's, I guarantee you.

Speaker 2

There's more, absolutely, you know, in the united states, probably more than 144 000 old ladies knocking on.

Speaker 3

Yeah right, math ain't mathin nope, no, it's not, no, it's not. How many did you?

Speaker 1

say 144 000? No, it's not. No, it's not. How many? Did you say 144,000?

Speaker 4

144,000. 144.

Speaker 3

144 million 8.8 million You're a little off there are. That's how many there are.

Speaker 1

So 144,000 are accounted to go to heaven and there's 8.8 million active Jehovah's Witness members, so you have to ask the question. Some of them are going to be awfully mad, do you?

Speaker 3

believe only 144,000. Are those the ones that will be left here to continue to witness? I can't remember.

Speaker 5

Talk to Google.

Speaker 3

I don't know. That may be listen. I try not to strike up too much of that conversation during my, during my home health.

Speaker 1

144 000 will go to heaven and rule with christ. That's it. That's 144 000 folks. If that's the case, I'm out like why am I living the good life? Like, forget it at this point, chances are I ain't making the cut.

Speaker 5

That's wild. That's why you have to keep trying harder. Yeah, well, okay.

Speaker 1

Whatever?

Speaker 4

you say Roger, Maybe I don't knock on enough doors? I don't know yeah.

Speaker 1

I don't know. So I think to say that there is a lot of confusion too in other denominations. Like I'm no biblical scholar, I don't understand all of the denominations and I'm not going to profess to have all of the answers, but I think there's a lot of confusion in what they do and who they are. But even between like four square churches we don't operate anything like Denison does you go to? Denison? I'm not trying to be mean, I'm just calling it like I see it. It's a lot quieter, a lot more low key.

Pentecostal vs. Charismatic Worship

Speaker 1

Pastor Rod said to me one time he's like you know, we could go a year without a message in tongues, and I don't worry about that here. If we went that long I'd be like what's happening, like what's going on. There would be cause for concern for me. When they pray for people, they don't have people walking through the parking lot, going out in the spirit or anything crazy. That's what Connie did the other day. She walked through the parking lot, went down in the spirit, just kidding, she didn't really. She tripped over a pile of dirt, but you know, tripped over a rock. But so even inside our denomination it's very different Baptists.

Speaker 3

There's a huge difference.

Speaker 5

Yes.

Speaker 1

There's Southern Baptists. There's, yeah, baptist. There's a huge yes, yes, big. There's southern baptist. There's, you know, northern baptist, eastern baptist, yeah that's.

Speaker 5

It's a huge swing. The southern baptists are a lot like pentecostals though. Um, if, if you get into the end of theology, yeah well, but I mean but I think they have a lot like the worship.

Speaker 1

I think they have a lot more legalistic views than we do, don't they?

Speaker 3

Oh yes.

Speaker 1

Yeah, the Southern Baptists are pretty legalistic, like the no cutting of hair and the—.

Speaker 3

Well, that—our church wasn't like that because I went to a Southern Baptist. But the church that I went to was not like that, but the one that was five miles down the road was, you wore a dress.

Speaker 1

Yeah, you wore a dress. The men wore suits. Like yeah, it was yeah yeah, yeah, that's and that's again we can go back and look at the amish from, did you?

Speaker 2

ever go to church in alabama?

Speaker 1

no, no, one time one time I went to church in alabama and it was when my grandma died oh okay I mean, they weren't churchgoers.

Speaker 5

He was trying to get exercise from the frogs. Yeah, yeah, right, yeah, did my wife send you that audio? Of course she did. She's like I could.

Speaker 2

He was trying to get exercise from the frogs. Yeah, yeah, right. Did my wife send you that audio Of?

Speaker 1

course she did.

Speaker 2

She's like I could listen to that all night. Yeah, not me, I didn't realize how many of them sound for frogs. We were here.

Speaker 1

We were here one night and we were leaving as a matter of fact, it was Sunday night I cranked the window open and you could hear them. You could hear them, yes, you could hear them. And so we go to leave and my I said to my kids, I said, do you hear that they're like? No, I'm like I do. And I was in the car they're coming, the peepers.

Speaker 3

I could hear them when I walked in. That's what I'm saying yeah, like they're they're out there.

Speaker 1

Oh, I could listen to that I don't mind listening to them, but from the safety of my own home with lots of screens I thought a lot of those sounds were insects.

Speaker 2

Nope Like oh, these are all frogs. Yeah, I know, I think.

Speaker 1

Yep, they make a lot of noise.

Speaker 2

Soothing sounds.

Speaker 5

Ugh frogs have multiple languages.

Speaker 1

Yes. Dialects Dialects oh, excuse me.

Speaker 5

Yes, yeah, wow, I'm not an English speaker.

Speaker 1

They all speak Frogganese. That got me thinking about it.

Speaker 2

Did you ever watch the Disney's Legend of Sleepy Hollow?

Speaker 1

No, Never seen, it Never seen it.

Speaker 2

Well, ichabod Craney is going through the woods and he hears all these frogs. And then the frogs start saying his name.

Speaker 1

Ichabod Ichabod. Yeah, no, I would have nightmares, and it's a cartoon. I wouldn't be able to sleep for days. I got to thinking of that cartoon.

Speaker 2

I wouldn't be able to sleep for days, I got to take it.

Speaker 3

I could just hear Michael, I'd never be able to sleep. I'd put those little ones outside saying I'm going to have nightmares tonight thinking about it.

Speaker 2

It's like a little half hour. You know one of the cartoons. I've never seen it.

Speaker 1

Ichabod has a really long nose in that though doesn't he, I know exactly what you're talking about. I've seen clips, but about I've I've seen clips, but I don't know that I've ever seen the whole thing. You know, I won't even read, like mr toad, the book are you afraid you're gonna jump?

Speaker 1

I don't, I just won't it's gonna give him nightmares yeah, he could end up. You. Have you guys ever seen, uh, the monster at the end of this book? The that's grover, grover's reading the book. It's a sesame street book, it's gold has. Uh, what's the? The ones that had the gold binding on the edge?

Speaker 1

Oh yeah, little golden book or whatever they're called. So it's called the Monster at the End of the Book. And you open the book and you flip the page and Grover's sitting there and it's hi, I'm Grover, or whatever. Grover's telling the story. He goes wait, did that say there's a monster at the end of the book? Don't turn the page Every time to turn the page because he's afraid of the monster at the end of the book. When you get to the end of the book it's grover. He's telling you not to turn the page, but he's the monster at the end of the book. It's so corny but it's so cute. But I'll never forget reading that book to aiden and watching him cry and cry. Aaron's like Dad turn the page. Aiden's sobbing Even though he knew the end of it.

Speaker 5

He had no idea He'd never read it before.

Speaker 1

He had no idea. So he's thinking like we're going to turn to the final page and this monster's going to come out of the book.

Speaker 4

I thought it was going to be like a mirror on the book I thought you were going to say it was a frog frog?

Speaker 1

Oh gosh, that would have been terrifying. That would have been terrifying. He proofread it first. Yeah, I had my wife proofread it. Tell me, is there a frog at the end of this? So, as far as other denominations go, the reason that I picked this one again was the Community Lenten Services we are hosting next week, and so, for the first time in two years, we will have people from all sorts of denominations in our building, so it'll be interesting to see how that goes. The first time that we did it, we scared the daylight out of people I mean scared the daylights out of people.

Speaker 1

So when we agreed to do it not last year, the year before I said to the worship team I'm like we're going to tone it back a lot, we're going to slow it down. We're going to pick softer team. I'm like we're going to tone it back a lot, we're going to slow it down. We're going to pick softer songs, lighter songs, a little bit easier, a little more campy, and it worked a lot better. We didn't do it last year. We did not do it last year. No, we were not asked to do it last year.

Speaker 1

This year. I didn't give them a choice. Honestly, we wouldn't have been asked this year, but I happened to be at the meeting that they made the decision and it's not intentional. But if you don't go to the meeting, you don't get included.

Speaker 3

It's just kind of the way that it is. Well, they just need to come visit us more frequently.

Speaker 1

Well, the unfortunate part is they have those meetings on Wednesday mornings. It's the first Wednesday of the month. Well, I have to work, so I can't be there on those Wednesdays.

Speaker 3

So it is what it is. Yeah, because when I started at the Baptist church it was the hymnals. Everything we sang was out of the hymnal, you know. And then we did have some praise and worship team, but it was still a lot of the I exalt thee, you know. A closer walk with me, all of those, you know. But by the time I left we were Baptocostals.

Speaker 1

That tends to happen. This has been my theory that Pentecostals have always been ahead of their time. Now I will say this I don't look at the four-square movement as Pentecostal anymore. We are charismatic. Big difference, in my opinion, just in how you describe them.

Speaker 1

Look, go watch a video of a real Pentecostal church. It's got a full band and you know every time the pastor says something, you hear the piano go. You know what I mean. Like it's that really big experience. The worship team never leaves the pastor's out there and he'll tell boys to stop wearing skinny jeans and cut your hair and look like a man and like that's a little different than what we do, a little more apostolic, almost. So when I think of Pentecostal, I'm almost leaning into the more apostolic vibe, feel, experience we consider. I consider us charismatic because while we believe in speaking in tongues and we're slain in the spirit and all of those things, it's a little more laid back. I don't want to use the word dignified because I think that's an unfair statement. I don't think that those churches are undignified. I think those churches can be scary to some people, over the top to some people.

Speaker 2

Is that like the ones where you're doom scrolling?

Speaker 1

Yes, people like jumping on one side Walking, just just stomping around, jumping over pews and stuff. Yes, people like just falling all over the church. Yeah, that's a. That's a real pentecostal church.

Speaker 3

That's like real pentecostal church is that kind of like where we went in mary in that time and there are some four square churches that operate that way yeah, marion, was it just Marian Christians?

Speaker 1

I don't know, those tend to be what we call non-denominational churches.

Speaker 3

Well, yeah, and that's what we after. We left the Southern Baptist, we just became a non-denominational. I'll tell you what Sunday nights down there you, the altars were full and the aisle to get to the altar was full.

Speaker 1

I mean, people were just you had to tap people on the shoulder. All right, your time's up. It's like the water fountain. One, two, three move it. My turn, one move it.

Speaker 3

They just dropped right there. Right it was. Yeah.

Speaker 1

Yeah, marion was the first time I was ever laid out in the spirit, so let's just talk about like last Sunday here, sid, you weren't here, nick, you were here last Sunday, yeah he was here. Everybody else was here.

Speaker 2

Okay, last.

Speaker 1

Sunday. So last Sunday Last Sunday we do announcements this place was dead. It was a really small group, which was odd because last week we were at almost 100. So it was a really light crowd. None of the visitors that had been semi-regular were here. So we do announcements and nobody's like everybody's sitting there and they look angry. Everybody in the building just looks grumpy. Nobody's laughing at jokes. I'm talking like it is dry in this place.

Speaker 2

I have to admit I was tired because we let the granddaughter spend the night for the first time. She kept us up.

Speaker 1

Oh, she was adorable. She was adorable, we were just happy she fell asleep.

Speaker 2

She woke up right at the end of your message.

Community Lenten Services and Prayer

Speaker 1

So whenever I stepped out from announcements and went back to the sound booth, lizzie came up and she's like Pastor Michael, do you think there's like something's just like really holding the spear back? I'm like, yes, I said, but I'm waiting on Holly, cause I know Holly feels it too Like very connected in that way. And so I went up towards the middle of the aisle second to last song, and I was standing there and I look over and just as I look over like Holly, and I just missed eye contact probably four or five times, and so I'd gone back to the sound booth and she came back and asked me a question. I was like, yeah, let's, let's do it. And she got the, the billow out and was allowing people to go into the bill.

Speaker 1

Next thing I know there's people everywhere it got stupid really quick, like, and I say stupid but like just very excited, very quickly, very quickly. And I was so thankful because I was like I'm going into a message that's a pretty strong word and I wanted to make sure that we were all in the same boat. But we got there. But we don't get that every Sunday either. There are some Sundays that it's just really relaxed. There are some Sundays that it's really excitable. But a lot of those visitors weren't here and there was a reason for that, because when it gets excitable and you have all of those people here, sometimes they're like I'm not okay with this.

Speaker 1

Like this makes me uncomfortable, so he knows when he's moving people in and out and what he's doing and how he's doing it, and we just run with it, because what else are you going to do?

Speaker 2

What did you call it? The billowy the?

Speaker 1

billow. I've never seen that before, so that is big in the ladies group. Like the ladies do that a lot, so, um, they, the colors represent different things. And there's, like holly always has, like, whatever she's raising the billow for that day she'll. She usually tells them um and like so you're walking under the peace of god or you're walking through the whatever. So, um, I've seen some wild stuff in some of those ladies meetings. Man, I love them, I do, I do.

Speaker 1

But I've also learned that like I am not as open to that as some other people are, and Pastor Holly has never made me uncomfortable. Let me make that clear there are some people who have been here who have made me uncomfortable, and not necessarily because of what they do or what they say, but like they're incredibly strong and I'm like I don't like that vibe. So I hide in the sound booth. But there's nothing wrong with it, but it is different. So when Holly first said it to me, I grabbed the shofar because I thought that's what she meant and then it all started to click. Yeah, so it's the same with. If you see them put the red cloth over top of somebody who's slain in the spirit, they're being covered in the blood White is surrender, which is all representation in the flags as well. So hopefully they're going to have some of that teaching at the next women's conference. But it sounds like that has kind of blown up as well that that may have moved from the original plan to two days and it's a whole yeah.

Speaker 5

So gonna be a. It's like at one time it was only supposed to be one day, and it was ended up to being.

Speaker 1

No, that was two days, that was two days. Two days, two services. But then it went two days, three services. And somehow after lunch we just came back and we did it again. Had no plan on that, but it happened and here we are doing our thing and that may have a repeat on this. Yeah, you never know, you never know, you never know. Well, it is 645, so we've got to button up because we have to get across town. So whose turn is it to pray?

Speaker 5

Mine.

Speaker 1

Pastor Rogers.

Speaker 5

It is. I think Nick was last.

Speaker 1

Nick was last, nick was last week, all right.

Speaker 5

Okay, heavenly Father, we do thank you, lord, for this day. Lord, we just thank you for all of the churches in our area, lord. We just ask you to take and just bless each one of them, lord. Bless the Denison Foursquare, lord, because they are affiliated with us, lord, and we just thank you for that. We thank you for that. We thank you for each person that's sitting at this table, lord. We just ask you to take and be with them on their journey the rest of this week, lord, and just allow us to get back here, and we will be hosting the Lenten service next week, lord, so we just ask a blessing be poured upon each person that has anything to do with it. Lord, we just thank you for that privilege and the opportunity, lord, and we just thank you and praise you. We give you all the glory. We just ask this all in Jesus' most precious name, amen.

Speaker 3

Amen.

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Michael Brindley

Host
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Beth Jarvis

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Dawn Reed-Enochs

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Nic Affolter

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Roger Deardorff

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Sydney Erickson

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