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Growing Together
Step into a virtual garden of spiritual growth and community connection with the "Growing Together" podcast. This podcast is a nurturing space for individuals seeking to deepen their faith, cultivate relationships, and explore the boundless beauty of a shared spiritual journey.
Each episode of "Growing Together" is a breath of fresh air, where Pastor Michael, Syd, Nic, Pastor Holly, and Pastor Roger try to navigate the twists and turns of life while staying rooted in faith. Their warm and inviting presence makes you feel like you're sitting in a cozy living room, engaged in a heartfelt conversation with old friends.
Diving into topics ranging from personal growth and self-care to building resilient relationships and fostering a sense of community, the podcast aims to equip listeners with the tools to nurture their faith in all aspects of life. Through scripture readings, open discussions, and interviews with experts in various fields, "Growing Together" provides a holistic approach to spiritual development.
Whether you're a lifelong believer, a seeker on the spiritual path, or simply someone curious about how faith can shape lives, "Growing Together" offers a welcoming haven for everyone. Tune in during your morning routine, while taking a leisurely stroll, or even during a quiet moment of reflection – the podcast fits seamlessly into your daily life.
Join the "Growing Together" community and embark on a journey of discovery, growth, and genuine connection. In a world that can sometimes feel disconnected, this podcast reminds us that nurturing our faith and cultivating meaningful relationships can lead to a life that's deeply fulfilling and spiritually abundant. Subscribe now to start your journey of growing together in faith and fellowship.
Growing Together
The Sunday Slump
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The Sunday slump has hit our church hard, and it's time for an honest conversation about what's really happening. Our pastor opens up about the frustrating disconnect happening every weekend - congregants gathering in small groups throughout the building rather than creating a welcoming environment, tech teams scrambling last-minute, and the same handful of dedicated volunteers carrying the load while others slip in and out without engagement.
Behind this phenomenon lies a profound spiritual challenge: we've allowed church to become transactional rather than transformational. Many approach Sunday mornings with a consumer mindset, coming to get something rather than give. The pastor painfully shares how difficult it is to pour energy into weekend services while watching registered members choose other activities over church attendance. When only half the congregation shows up on any given Sunday, the impact on ministry momentum and community building is devastating.
This raw conversation explores the uncomfortable truth that church participation has fundamentally changed. Our society no longer reserves Sundays for worship, and competing activities constantly vie for attention. But more concerning is the shift in attitude - tithing viewed as purchasing influence, volunteering seen as optional, and commitment treated as conditional. The spiritual implications are serious: we've forgotten what it means to sow rather than invest in our faith community.
Hope emerges in stories of visitors who experience powerful encounters with God because they come seeking transformation, not transaction. There's a clear path forward: rediscovering the joy of service without recognition, showing up consistently even when inconvenient, and approaching church as an opportunity to contribute rather than consume. When we embrace this mindset shift, Sunday mornings can once again become powerful experiences where both longtime members and newcomers encounter authentic community and spiritual growth.
Ready to break free from the Sunday slump? Listen now and ask yourself: am I coming to get something or coming to give? The answer might transform not just your church experience, but your entire faith journey.
It's not that you did anything wrong. Everything it's all my fault. No, I listened and it was fun to listen to, but you got some details wrong. That's all On what? And you guys no, all of you got details wrong, and you know how I like things to be, just so no.
Speaker 2Well, and you weren't here, so guess who's not.
Speaker 1I know, I know.
Speaker 2It's your turn to pray.
Speaker 1I know, oh yeah, I did hear that too it rotates back. We didn't want you to think we could do this without you, because you could do it without me.
Speaker 2Yeah, you didn't want to.
Speaker 1Yeah, a couple of notes we are already recording, but just some pointers for everybody, just a heads up. Yeah just some pointers for everybody. One of the things I don't typically go back and re-listen yeah, so listening last night or today for last week's episode. One of the things I would point out is, when you're talking, make sure you get close enough to your mic that you can hear, Like Beth, I can, or Dawn.
Speaker 2I can tell when you turn around and talk to Beth, because I lose you about right here, so you can tell it's our fault.
Speaker 1I know, I get it, I get it.
Speaker 3So you're telling all this, so we are continuing the podcast Like we're going to be around forever.
Speaker 1Well, no, I don't know about forever. You're giving us pointers right now. I don't know about forever.
Speaker 3Yeah, we're here forever.
Speaker 1So I mean, do you want me to just share it while we're online? I will, I don't have a problem. Actually, it's going to tie into today's topic. So I'm struggling really, really badly with the disconnect on Sundays. So something's happening that, like we just don't have I need two tech people right now Can't get anybody to do it.
Speaker 1I need, I mean, I need greeters, I need so much stuff, and I feel like there's this giant disconnect on Sunday mornings that I feel like I need to reshift my focus back to Sunday mornings, because it's gotten to the point to where, like, you open the door and there are people standing there and they're congregated and they're chit chatting, but it's not necessarily greeting anymore. And then when you get into the sanctuary, a lot of times it's semi-empty because everybody's either in the prayer room or in the cafe, and so the building becomes cliquish, and so if you're new and you make it to the sanctuary, you're there by yourself. It's my tech team and I can't say tech team because sis is always here super early but, like, sound engineers aren't here early enough to sound check anything that needs to be checked. So if something goes sideways, it happens during service, and last week I don't remember what I told them to do, but I was like, hey, you're going to want to keep this going, and so when they went to transition to the next song, it was a hard transition the song ended and the next one started, and anybody who was looking at me standing in front of the pulpit knew that I was not happy, because the look on my face was and I wasn't mad at them but this is the stuff that we should be so good at that.
Speaker 1It just shouldn't happen. We have all of the equipment. Everything is there that we should need. There are some minor adjustments that we could make, but we've talked about doing live worship. Again, I'm not going to do it. Until we have figured out how we do that and do it right, I'm not going to do it until we have figured out how we do that and do it right.
Speaker 1Yeah, like we Lenten service was, I was furious, furious. During Lenten service we practiced I shouldn't say we practiced so hard, but we did. I mean, it wasn't a hard practice as much as it was finding the time to make it happen. Yeah, once, yeah, we really practiced twice, twice, no-transcript and fading the floor monitor back up. They just did it and it was brutal, brutal. And that's the stuff that for me. I just like. I feel like I need to have a renewed focus on what's happening on Sunday mornings so that we can get this wagon train to move in, because we move into that side of the building, which is gonna happen, but wagon train to move in because we move into that side of the building, which is going to happen. But when that happens, it becomes significantly harder to fix those things because everything is going to be remote. We'll be controlling things from iPads versus being in front of it the entire time, so you'll have less opportunity to save those major malfunctions. So I want to really good at it.
Speaker 1So yeah yeah so now that I was super serious about that, I got my grass mode today you got your grass mode today.
Speaker 3That's good did you put?
Speaker 1do you put pontoons on the mower?
Speaker 2yeah, no kidding well, I thought I got I only have today, because it's supposed to rain again what the next couple days. So I got the front and the fenced-in yard done, but I didn't get out back behind the garage.
Speaker 4So, because we've gotten so much rain, the lake is up and they're putting my boat in on Saturday. Guess where I'm going to be Saturday night.
Speaker 1Yeah, and guess who won't be at church on Sunday morning because of it. So let's go back to church attendance. That's not true.
Speaker 4Listen.
Speaker 3I very rarely miss church and I think there's been times where you stay out there.
Speaker 1And she comes in, I come in, she comes in.
Speaker 4Yeah, I do. I mean, we're out there every Sunday and I come in. Yeah, it's just very hectic when you have Rosalyn and Noah and me all trying to get ready in that little space. Oh yeah, I can imagine you got two of them with ADHD. That can't keep focused on what they're supposed to be doing.
Speaker 3You're like don't jump in the water, don't do it, they're out feeding the fish.
Speaker 4You don't have any ducks. No, we got not ducks. What are they? Geese with their babies are out there, but we got those carp that are huge.
Speaker 2Oh yeah, Because everybody's feeding them.
Speaker 1Yeah, Whatever they've got on the boat too. That's why they're huge.
Speaker 4Yep, well, it's in the morning. If you don't get out there in the morning when they think they need fed, they smack up against your pontoon. That's how Is that right, yeah.
Speaker 2Oh, you can put your, they'll take it right out of your hand. You know they say dumb animals, they're all smart.
Speaker 4Poor little Rosalyn. I thought she was going to have a heart attack when she I don't know what she thought it was going to do she put her hand down there and that thing sucked on her finger.
Speaker 2She probably thought it was as little as she is. She probably thought it was going to pour is. She probably thought it was gonna pour in right.
Speaker 3I'm sure if she saw the full length of it she'd be like okay sorry I'm answering now.
Speaker 1I'm trying to answer work emails while I'm sitting here. I have not had enough time today to do anything well close that that sounds like me.
Speaker 3I, my friend um. She was coming over today to help with some of my crafts for cooper's birthday and really it was just like to put together a picture collage and I was going to have her grab the pictures from walmart. Well, I'm like, okay, just let me know when you're on your way to walmart, like all.
Speaker 1And you hadn hadn't even sent them in.
Lake Life Distractions
Speaker 3Well, I was like where's my order? Where's my order? Oh my gosh, where's my order. Yeah, Didn't even send it, like I even was going to the payment method and I must just not have hit place order whenever I. I did it earlier this morning, so I don't know, maybe you were was asleep. That way I'd have undivided attention, and still it failed, so in other words, you can't believe Cooper?
Speaker 4Yeah, no, not at all Kind of like when you don't send an email that you thought for sure. You said yeah.
Speaker 1Oh no, I know, when I don't do it, I always end up eating crow after I'm like oh yeah, that was a week ago and I never responded to that.
Speaker 4And then Jarvee doesn't get paid on Friday because you never mail the bill in.
Speaker 2Talim. I thought he was just working out the kindness of his heart. He helped me put up my fence posts, Ten of my panels went down with our last windstorm.
Speaker 1Hey, I thought you guys were crazy when you said when you moved to get used to the wind. I thought you guys were crazy. That's real life down there. I've never experienced wind like we have in, it's crazy.
Speaker 3It's because everybody's talking at the same time.
Speaker 4Jarby said he owed you that for taking care of my broken window that you know. Maybe the dog would have been better off had he run out that window.
Speaker 2Last stunt.
Speaker 4Oh, goodness, goodness, goodness, you know he ripped a hole in my couch the size of a basketball and pulled all the stuffing out my brand new couch.
Speaker 1Yeah, I did. I already know that.
Speaker 4Cause I made a joke about it, but he had that small Okay. Oh no, this is huge.
Speaker 1Yeah, so there, nevermind, there are two options.
Speaker 4Bring him to your house.
Speaker 1Nope, oh, you can bring him to my house and then I'll choose one of the two options, and I'm betting it'll be option two. Don't? It'll be option two.
Speaker 2Just don't put him in my backyard.
Speaker 4Listen, this is the thing he has no remorse. I mean, like my other dogs, if they did something bad and you kind of got after them, you know they'd put their head down or whatever.
Speaker 1No, he wants to play, he's like bring it on.
Speaker 4He's jumping at you and barking at you.
Speaker 2Is he?
Speaker 1really a cat.
Speaker 4I don't know, maybe he thinks he's a cat. I don't know what he thinks he is. That's what they do.
Speaker 1Speaking of cats, let's just talk about the cat situation, because I missed that last week. So, nick, you have three more kittens, yeah, plus mommy, plus mommy, and you're keeping mommy for sure, plus you're keeping the three kittens.
Speaker 4Beth has kittens.
Speaker 1My wife says yes, I'm not even questioning it, I'm saying that you're keeping the three kittens, beth, how many do you have?
Speaker 4Mama's never brought them.
Speaker 1She keeps coming back and eating, but at some point Nick is going to end up with more kittens.
Speaker 4Yeah, I'm going to do drive-bys throw over the fence One at a time.
Speaker 2I'm going to have to build a wall, like Trump.
Speaker 1Yeah you're going to have to have a dome, Otherwise people are just going to keep dropping them on. I'm just going to keep dropping them on? Are there going to?
Speaker 4be small enough, I can push them under.
Speaker 1Pretty soon the city's going to come after you, thinking you guys are the problem, but really you're just trying to fix the problem.
Speaker 2Oh goodness.
Easter Egg Hunt Planning
Speaker 1Okay. So some corrections from last week's episode. 18,000 eggs was the target number. We are currently at like 23. That happened by accident. People kept asking for eggs, I kept giving out eggs. So doing the quick math, we're close to 23,000. So we got a lot, a lot of eggs. So we're hoping for a decent turnout. This is year five. I would like to speak to the fact that somehow I always end up doing the Easter Egg Hunt, even though I say every year I'm not going to.
Speaker 1I would like to state that the first year I was not opposed, the first year I was not opposed Okay, the first year we had a committee, were you part of that Chantel was here, brooke was here Okay. So we had a huge quote unquote committee. Everybody sat in that room when it was my office and we all came up with 353,000 ideas why we should and how we should.
Speaker 1And then, quickly, the 353,000 ideas Get down to one. Nope, they had to happen. And if they didn't happen, that person was mad because they didn't get what they wanted. Okay, so I learned that year I have to head this thing up, or one person does. It doesn't have to be me, but it can only be one person. That person is the final say in what gets executed. It's just easier that way. Here's the next fun fact. People don't like that, and so if they say, hey, we should X, and I'm like well, you guys use bikes as an example. We got that one. You guys should give away bikes. Well, we did that. And we had a little boy win an Elsa bike. Well, that doesn't seem fair, right, who can afford to have a bike for every age group, in every gender?
Speaker 4Right, it's almost impossible Right.
Speaker 1Exactly so. The person who suggested the bikes when I said we're not going to do bikes again was upset because we weren't going to do bikes.
Speaker 1Now they didn't donate any of the bikes, they didn't volunteer. Yes, it was just the idea. So long and short. Yes, I am a little bit controlling of the egg hunt. However, I would love for somebody else to take it and run with it. I would like for it to end up out at the school, because then you have all of that parking. You don't need people to help park. You can put the eggs out early enough in the morning that everything is just set up. I don't know if they would let you use the concession stand, but you could offer all of your free concessions right out of the concession stand, or even setting up a tent. You could still do all of the things. The only problem is is it's all outside, so in the event of rain, you're wet, although I can get us a really large tent that we could borrow, but it wouldn't change the fact that it's still outside. So, any volunteers, any takers.
Speaker 3Yes, no, no, no no, didn't think so I volunteer as tribute. You do it so well Okay.
Speaker 4All right yeah.
Speaker 1Well, I want somebody to take it.
Speaker 4I'm begging somebody to take it. We wouldn't want to have to.
Speaker 1you know, my problem is is I don't you hand it to somebody and I want them, but I also need them to understand that there are limits to the vision that we can have, because it gets really out of control very quickly and you have to be able to rein that in and have to have some cap on the idea for a certain year. We want, we wanted to go to the school this year. It wasn't possible we didn't even know if we were going to get to do it to call the school and book the date and do all of the things.
Speaker 2So yeah, yeah because you need to start now.
Speaker 1Yes, yes, right, we should be starting now for next year. Wait, let's start after Easter for next year, because this was the other thing I was telling my wife after having listened to it. People don't fully understand either, and I don't never say these things so that people go oh yeah, he does have a lot going on, but I move from one thing to the next Lenten service to the Easter egg hunt. Like Easter egg hunt can't even really have my attention until Lenten service is over, because that's a big undertaking, right From a tech standpoint, from having just having the building open, it's hard on the building to have that many people in a short amount of time. So go from Lenten service, go to Easter egg hunt. Go from Easter egg hunt into Palm Sunday, into Good Friday, into Easter Sunday. Right, catch your breath.
Speaker 1And now we have dodgeball, which doesn't take a lot but it does take work, and it doesn't happen if I'm not here and making and pushing it. So you have. Then we have dodgeball. Then we've been asked to do water baptisms, so we'll have that. There's always something, there's always a next. There's never a like. Catch your breath, get your head above water. I'll tell you. I have done. I told my wife this. I used to like it when nobody liked me. I like that way better, because now I've got people calling me wanting to do counseling appointments, I'm like what? How did this happen? We've had somebody at our house every week at least one night of week for probably the past six weeks, and usually it's Friday night, because it's the only night that we have available.
Speaker 1Let's see Adeline has dance on Monday. Emmett has soccer on Tuesday. Adeline has gymnastics on Wednesday. Emmett has soccer on Thursday. Friday night we're open Saturday. What do we have on saturday basketball game?
Speaker 1no basketball basketball's over, but you did yes, well, right, and so we just trade dates. So like now we've got saturday, is semi-open, but that's like, yeah, it's like a buffer the only day. But that's writing a sermon, that's doing any building work here that needs to be done, like there's always something that has to happen. So tonight probably not, because Adeline probably won't go to dance tonight because Alyssa's not feeling well. But if Adeline would have gone to or gymnastics tonight, easton would have come here and then Easton and I would have cleaned up whatever we needed to clean up gone to the Lenten service, gone home by the time we get home it's 8.30. Get everybody bathed and in bed. There's just no rest, no rest, and people don't think about that. And so when they say, oh, we should do dodgeball, we should do young adult night, we should do this, hey, listen, I'm all for all of those you say great, take it over then.
Speaker 1I'm all for all of those things and we love having the young adults. We don't mind having people at our house, but we also like. Alyssa and I, we spent like three hours together today alone no kids, nobody else. It's probably the longest we've been alone awake in a long time In a long time.
Speaker 1So there's a lot going on Just trying to get people to understand that a small church still requires a large number of volunteers. Really, honestly, in the size of our congregation, let's do some just quick napkin math Every registered member, every card-carrying organic church member, there's probably 120 of us I never got a card. Well, you got neglected. It's a fictitious card.
Speaker 2Do you guys get a card. No, no cards.
Speaker 1I only give those to people I like. Okay, I'm the only one that has one, just so we're clear he's the only one.
Pastor's Schedule Struggles
Speaker 4That's got one. I was going to say do you hear that, dawn? That means we don't have to be here until noon.
Speaker 1So we have what was I saying. Oh, there's probably about 120 actual members of the church.
Speaker 1Of that we on a Sunday morning morning get between 50 and 60 that show up. That's usually including kids. Now we get some really good Sundays where we have 80 people, but a lot of times that's a handful of visitors. That's like 10 or 12 visitors. That's a husband and wife coming with three kids and we might have three of those little pockets. That's crazy to think about that. We have 120 people on the roster and we really can't get above 60 of actual church members on a Sunday morning.
Speaker 4Do we reach out to them?
Speaker 1Certainly, but here's the problem.
Speaker 4I mean because I don't even know that. I know that many and I've been coming here.
Speaker 1Here's the problem. Well, but this is the trick. You do know that many. You just don't realize that they almost missed in alternates. So, like, if Doug and Mel miss one Sunday, you might not notice that Sunday, but like Vicky Hickey may be here that Sunday, right, and so you balance out those numbers. If everybody who were a member were to come one Sunday morning and Easter is likely one of those mornings this place will be full Because you have so many people who, like, that day becomes a priority.
Speaker 1So, the topic the way that I titled it was. What did I call it?
Speaker 2Slump.
Speaker 1Sunday slump, Sunday slump, what is it Like? Tina Newman comes in here all the time, Almost every Sunday morning. I'm just in a bad mood. I'm like Tina, you're always in a bad mood. Like this isn't new.
Speaker 3She reminds me of my grandma, the one who passed away.
Speaker 1It's not new news. Tina, You're always in a bad mood. Why are you in a bad mood? Well, I didn't want to get up this morning Because the sun's shining.
Speaker 3I should still be in my PJs.
Speaker 1Yeah, people get that and don't get up and go to church. How many people start to experience that? And then they just become like, oh well, it's just easier to stay in bed. I get it, but if that were an option for me, I would take it too, but it's not, it's not an option. So then I go back to okay, do I expect everybody to be the way that I am, to operate the way that I do? So I've been here. Let's do the quick math again. This week, roger, you and I were here Monday night. We did the setup. Nick, you were here Monday night. I did come last night, but I was just in and out. I didn't stay. What did I come for? I don't know. I wasn't here. I don't remember what I was here for, but I was in and out. I didn't stay for probably 15 minutes, 20 minutes tops. Was I here yesterday? I think I was.
Speaker 3Well, that's Monday.
Speaker 1Yeah. Yesterday was Tuesday yeah but I'm trying to think why I stopped here for something yesterday. Yeah, I'm glad you know the days of the week.
Speaker 3Well, I know Alyssa was at the gym yesterday.
Speaker 1No, mine would have been in the morning before I went to work, because I'd left my bag here Monday night. So I stopped in, got my bag and took care of a couple of things before I went to work on Tuesday morning. Ok, then tonight I've been here since I don't know, three thirty four o'clock, somewhere around there Probably. So we've got this. Then we've got Lenten service this evening Tomorrow. We've got this, then we've got Lenten service this evening Tomorrow. I think I'm free tomorrow, I don't think I have to be here.
Speaker 2Yeah, well, we need to rest up for Saturday, yeah.
Speaker 1But then I'll be here Friday for sure. There's some stuff that I'll want to take care of before Friday and then Saturday all day, and then you know, back on Sunday. So there's what I need people to understand is, if you volunteer to do something, do it. No, not just that Like thank you for volunteering and I'll tell you. I'm going to give a shout out to Marcus McVeigh right now. That dude comes down anytime. I ask him to mow the grass, whatever I need Roger's the same way. Like there, there are a handful of us that do that. The problem is is if somebody would just say, hey, what do you need done, and I said I need this painted or I need these moved or I need that done, and I could trust that they were going to follow through and they were going to do those things, they don't understand the value that that brings to my life. 20 minutes, that's 20 minutes. I get to go home and see my kids. Now, remember, I don't always want to see my kids, but I could if I wanted to Do. Remember.
Speaker 3I don't always want to see my kids, but I could if I wanted to Do. We think we should set up some sort of action plan to where people don't have to ask you what needs done.
Speaker 1So here's the thing At one point we had committees, so we had a lawn committee. These are the people who are going to do the lawn, they're going to take care of mowing, they're going to take care of landscaping, they're going to take care of weed eating, pressure washing the building, basically outside of the building. They're going to take care of it. That list had six people on it. Of those six, two people have actually followed through on that work. Do you know who those two people are? You and Dawn, me and Roger. Well, dawn now with the flower beds. But like we had some people came, they pressure washed part of the building, but it's still not done. There's this constant like and it never ends. So my problem is is could I start a maintenance thread in the church text and be like hey, this week, here are the five things that need to be done, you know what that does to me Increases your anxiety.
Speaker 1Creates frustration because I say here are the five things that needs to be done. Nobody responds and I look at roger and go well, we've got five things to do this week and I can't wait till friday to find out that nobody did it right, because if I don't come on tuesday when I have time, it simply won't get done can it be looked at as if nurse, what like?
Speaker 3how nursery is looked at like?
Speaker 1we set up a schedule, you know, and I still won't work I appreciate the idea, but I think some of it is skilled work. Yeah, I agree. So if you were mowing, fine On Monday or this week. This person is responsible for mowing, roger, and I have actually split it in three sections.
Speaker 1Roger and I do it in three phases. So what we call zone one is all of and I'm just mowing is just the one that's in my head right now. We mow from the street all the way up to the front end of the building. That's zone one. Zone two is push mowing the front of the building. Zone three is the big back half right Now. There's a reason that we do it that way. Roger almost always mows zone three because if you let somebody who doesn't know what they're doing, they blow the grass all over the building and they make a bigger mess than they help. We used to have people who would come and help like, oh, I'll just stop out and help mow and you would have clumps of grass because they would set the blade all the way to the bottom, like.
Speaker 1So it's that level of perfection, that that spirit of excellence that I have. That's hard to just let anybody do anything. And you, when you ask like, hey, mow around the building. It's simple Mow around the building three times, with the mower pointing away from the building, and after that you're fine.
Speaker 1Whole thing. He told the story. Last week somebody ran the big mower through the front yard you want to talk about. Send me into an absolute rage. You can still see the spot out there where they tore up the grass like. It's why when, when you say I'm gonna mow the front, I say please push mow, please use the push mower, always use the bagger. We never mulch the grass on the front because otherwise it ends up in the flower bed it it ends up all over the sidewalk.
Speaker 2You still get someone to slide.
Speaker 1Yeah, because it comes out first. But the point is is that it's a simple ask for a simple task, but you can't get people to follow the direction and so, like with plumbing, Roger and I have said we just don't do that anymore. This building is so complicated when it comes to plumbing. It's just easier for us to call Chase and see if Chase can squeeze us in. Fine, Then you have electrical work.
Speaker 2We can use extension cords.
Speaker 1Yes, exactly that's why we do extension cords, because nobody would do the electrical work.
Speaker 3Sounds like my house.
Speaker 1We run them through the wall, though. We just run them through the wall, we don't mind. Roger and I do the majority of the electrical work, and then Dan lumps. It can help. The problem is is, when you get a job, you can't just leave that half finished. It has to be done. You guys remember the sign. The lights didn't work on the sign out there for months. Finally I got sick of it and I went out and figured it out. Didn't even get electrocuted once. Didn't even get electrocuted once, and all it was. What did I tell you it was that, was it Just a photo cell? Pulled it out, put a new one in Works. Fine, we even had a photo cell, didn't have to buy one.
Speaker 1Yeah, we had a photo cell, Didn't spend any money on it. That's stuff that, when people see it, I wish somebody would just say, hey, I noticed the lights aren't working, Do you mind if I come out and take a look at it Like, hey, I noticed that that toilet keeps running, Do you mind if I take care of that? Or don't even ask just swap the light bulbs, right, it's not difficult and so much of it is really honestly easy to do, but nobody wants to do it. Here's my theory. People want to come on Sunday morning and they want to spectate, right, they want to get something out of it. So they treat church as an investment right. As an investment right Because you pay in in hopes of getting something out right. So it's very transactional. Tithes are no longer just tithes. Tithes buy you opinion. Right Now this doesn't happen a lot here, but it does happen.
Speaker 1People are like oh well, I donated, didn't tithe, I donated, so we should be doing X. Well, it's not quite as bad as it used to be. Yes, it used to be way worse, but people, like, they think like that, and so when they come into the sanctuary on Sunday morning and this has gotten a lot better too, but this is still a bone of contention for me when a lot better too, but this is still a bone of contention for me when I'm preaching, I don't need you to raise your hand and try to like preach for me. It happens, like there are some people who, like I feel I know that you feel like you can add value right now, but it's they have a right to do those things. Listen, go to any other church and try to do that stuff.
Speaker 1The problem is is because I am approachable, because I and that's how I build myself Like I want everybody to feel like they can have a relationship with me. They feel like they can do that. I I've threatened nerf guns, dodge balls, like what do I do to get people to just be respectful during service? Right, it's hard. Moreover, how do you get people to just show up? Because, to me that's the biggest part. Do you know how hard it is? And I'll give Beth a hard time. I texted her last Sunday. She wasn't here. I sent her a text. I said you need to be here. She said I know. I said then get here. That was the text exchange. She didn't respond to that because she's like I ain't doing it.
Speaker 4I was soaking in bed, I was planning my day in bed all day.
Speaker 1The hard part for me is to get up on Sunday morning, come in here at 6.30 in the morning, 7 at the absolute latest, be in the building, give everything I've got between 6.30 and noon, 1 o'clock, depending on the day, to have council members not show up, to have volunteers not show up and people don't like. Oh, I'm not going to be able to be there this Sunday. I'll tell you who is. Oh, tina Newman usually texts me the day before if she's not going to be able to be here for some reason. Now she comes on Sunday morning, sometimes later than she should because she's supposed to make the coffee. Normally, roger and I are done, and a bad attitude some Sundays. But you know what she shows up she shows up. Listen, god, family, church, I get it, I get it.
Speaker 3But when do I get to see my?
Speaker 1family. I get to see my family on Sunday morning after church before they leave and go with their grandparents. That's not fair. I need people who are going to step up and actually be in positions and in roles that support the ministry. This is what I tell Sis and Dan in the sound booth all the time, in the tech booth my ministry does not operate if your ministry does not operate If every time I ask for a scripture or a slide, it's not there. If every time I say, hey, play this song, and it's not there. That affects what I'm doing, it affects that move, because it's that you're running against the grain all the time and we've got to fix that. But we can't fix that without people wanting to show up and actually be part of what the church is about. Listen, I am fully aware of what's going to happen in this place. It's going to blow up. We're going to get to the point and I don't mean physically, I don't mean like kaboom, unless that hot water tank keeps shooting through the roof.
Speaker 3Not very timely right now.
Speaker 1I think that there's going to come a day and we see it some Sundays and everybody gets so excited when that happens. Right, you walk in there and there's 80 people in the sanctuary and everybody's like, oh my gosh, this feels so good. And then they're not here the next Sunday and we're like what would we do to get them back? Be kind, show up and talk to them right.
The Transactional Church Problem
Speaker 1We've got one congregate right now has always been incredibly quiet and incredibly reserved and all of a sudden she's not. And I'm like I don't know how this happened, but I'm here for it because and there's a constant text messages about like why do you guys do this and why do we do this? And I don't understand this and I don't understand that. I will answer those text messages all day long because if you are growing, it means something right. So we've done the right thing for them. How do we duplicate that? Can I tell you that we did the right thing for that person?
Speaker 1Because of who my wife is and how she pours into people, we all have to be that way. It can't be transactional. We can't come in here, sit in our seats, expect to get something and walk out having given nothing. Everything has to be part of the DNA of what we do. Somebody asked me once what our mission statement is, and we technically share a mission statement with Foursquare, so we don't really get to have our own mission statement.
Speaker 1But here's what I try to tell people I want this church to be about what we love and not worry about the things that we hate, right? So what I mean by that is when we see somebody walk through the door that we don't necessarily agree with. Listen, there are people in this world that I do not like, right, I just don't like them. If they walk through that door, I love them, just the same as every other person that walks through the door. There are going to be people in our lives that we disagree with. There's one person that, like, cannot imagine all of the things that, like, I'm seeing on social media from them right now, and it's like I'm like, that's not the person that I know, right, like, how do you fix that? What do we? I can't say anything, because if I say something, then it's like, am I picking a fight? But I'm worried about them.
Speaker 3Yeah.
Speaker 1Like it's my responsibility to make sure that those people don't go to hell. Like it's my responsibility to make sure that those people don't go to hell, right, like I should be telling them listen, I'm tired I've been half.
Speaker 1do you know how hard it is to have to be somebody's pastor and you, when you and you're not allowed to be their friend? There are times in life for me that each and every one of you I consider friends, but if you come to me with something that is heavy or weighted, I can't be your friend. I have to be your pastor. It's my responsibility to make sure that you're not doing something contrary to the word of God. That's heavy, that's hard. I've been dealing with it for a month, month and a half at this point, just trying to navigate life as a pastor and not as a friend. But then the problem is is when that switch is flipped.
Speaker 1Now I'm everybody's pastor and nobody's friend, not even my wife's friend. Seriously, it's hard to do. So then I have to come here, give everything, leave, and I still have to close myself off. Because if I open myself up, if I open my home, if I allow people to come in, then I start to want to become friend. And then you become friend and now you're in dangerous territory because you can say some things and you can't say other things.
Speaker 1Now that's what Pastor Michael said. Actually, let me rephrase that Michael said, and I'm going to tell you that's probably one of the hardest things that I'm experiencing right now. And this I've never been this way, and Roger will tell you this. When I first started, when people called me Pastor Michael, it made me uncomfortable. Now I'm like wait a second. When somebody says Michael instead of Pastor Michael, I think there's a level of respect missing. Here. We're on friend level, we're not on spiritual level, and that's hard to think about, because there is always a connection. It's a small church. I spend a lot of time with a lot of people, but you want me to give you the truth, you want me to be honest with you, and then, when I am, I'm not being your friend. I don't want to be your friend.
Speaker 2I can't be your friend all the time.
Speaker 1It's not fun. It's not fun. But there's something wrong with Sunday mornings and the problem with Sunday morning is it's transactional. At this point, people think they can come, sit and leave and they don't have to give anything back. So Holly and I were having this conversation. We have to learn to sow instead of invest conversation. We have to learn to sow instead of invest. You reap what you sow. Right, when you invest, there's potentially no return. When you're just paying in, paying in, paying in, paying in you're just coming in doing your time. Think of it like a prison sentence, right? The only difference is is you get to leave at the end of your two hours on Sunday morning. But that's what some people like. To them, they just have to come and put in their time. A prison sentence. Well, it really is, I know. I know it really is, and some people feel that they would probably feel the same way if they had to go to prison every Sunday morning for two hours.
Speaker 3Yeah, I mean the church is dead, Like yeah, it probably actually does feel like prison for most of them because they're acting as if it is.
Speaker 1I feel like I'm obligated to go on Sunday morning.
Speaker 3Yeah.
Speaker 1Listen, my kids don't miss church on Sundays. Now, I'm not saying that everybody. I saw somebody post like well, my kid plays softball and I encourage them because then they go out and show Jesus in the world. No, they don't. They go out and they play softball. No, you're not. Yes, you may pray before or you may pray after, but let me tell you something. Let me tell you something Nobody gives a hoot.
Speaker 1And if you're showing them that their priorities the priority is baseball, the priority is softball, the priority is dance, the priority is soccer. Whatever it is, emmett starts soccer this coming Sunday. They've had one practice. He starts this coming Sunday. That game is at one o'clock, so that means on Sunday after church I'm going to leave here and go straight to soccer. But I'll be darned. If there's a soccer game at noon somewhere far away, emmett doesn't go.
Speaker 4Yeah, don't you think that was part of the fall of the church is?
Speaker 1when Do you want the truth?
Speaker 4Like my parents' generation, you better have got gas.
Speaker 1Yeah, because everything was closed. Everything was closed. No, you want me to tell you this is not going to feel good, this is going to be a little bit ouchy. Okay, the fall of the church was being acceptance of being accepting Is that the word.
Speaker 1I don't know Accepting being accepting of divorce. Oh yeah, it's the truth, because the minute that we allowed the word to be perverted by the world, you might as well give it up Right Now. I'm not saying that if somebody gets divorced, they shouldn't be allowed to be in the church, right, but what I'm saying is is now it's easy to do, and so, as so long as it's easy, great, okay. Well, if the church is okay with divorce now, the church is okay with the store being open, the church is now okay with their secular thing.
Speaker 2Correct, correct.
Speaker 1Now. I have goes back to what you're saying. Even divorce is transactional. Yes, yeah, everything. That's the problem. The church, when you walk through the door, there should be a shift in atmosphere for you that you go. You know what? I'm not here for flesh anymore, I'm not here for my body. We had a young girl come in last Sunday.
Speaker 1She's been here plenty of times, her, and her husband had a tumultuous separation and Kathy comes up and says to me she needs prayer, she's sick. I already knew that she was sick, but we hadn't seen her since then. We've talked a couple of times. We ended up praying for this girl, stiff as a board, stuck to the floor, like this whole experience. She didn't come for flesh, she didn't come for transaction, she came for transformation. Right, listen?
Speaker 1Some of us have been in the church our entire lives. Some of us has been in the church since we were teenagers. Some of us have been saved for a long time and we treat church like a transaction. This girl comes, having not been here for probably better part of a year at this point, and she comes looking for something because she knows she can find it, not just here, but in the church. For something because she knows she can find it not just here, but in the church. We have come to the church because we're obligated to be in the church. This is another thing, and Pastor Roger, pastor Holly, they both can attest to this. I don't hold on one second. Alyssa is very I shouldn't say she's very sick. I don't want to panic anybody, but she's not feeling well and so I'm worried about her. But she just texted me and said she's starting to feel a little bit better that's good what was I saying before?
Speaker 1that I was on a rampage. I know that oh.
Speaker 1Pastor Roger, pastor Holly will both tell you this Listen, you want to be on council, you want to be a pastor, you want to get a license? You better be tied into this building, because I can't trust that you're going to make good financial decisions from a council member. If you can't make good financial decisions in your own personal life, right, okay, so then we go to. If you want to be a pastor, if you're being paid from this house, you should be paying into this house right.
Speaker 1It's crazy to me that again the church has become so transactional that that money only counts when I need something or I want to have opinion Right Two weeks ago. Was it two weeks ago?
Speaker 2Yeah.
Speaker 1Two weeks ago we had a $7,000 offering. Two weeks ago we had a $7,000. You know what our normal offering is in this building $2,000, $2,200. That's a good week to be in the $2,000s. It was one family. They gave $5,500. 500 was designated for Cupboard of Hope, 500 was, they told me, do whatever I wanted with it. So I designated it to the building fund, $5,500. And when I sent them a thank you text they said hey, you know, it's our pleasure. God wanted us to do that. They weren't looking for favor, they weren't looking to buy opinion, they weren't looking to have permission to get away with whatever they want. They were doing it because it was what they were led to do, right. And so it's hard for me to process how I don't have $5,500 laying around to just give away. I don't know about anybody else, but I don't typically keep that in cash in the mattress, right? So my point is is that they felt led, they did with no strings attached, they didn't want anything for that. So many of us come and we think that by paying that 10% or by giving a little bit here, giving a little bit there, we have a voice, not even a voice in the church, but that God owes us something because, well, I'm doing this and it's like it's the world and the flesh that makes you think that way yes
Speaker 3anything that has anything to do with your spiritual life. You can't look at it in the lens of, of the rest of the, or even of how the rest of the world looks at everything like you can't.
Speaker 1Right, it can't be viewed as reciprocal.
Speaker 1Right so one of the things that I've experienced with tithing. So I have a tithing message all up here in my head but I need counsel to give me basically $1,000 to let me do that message, which sounds crazy, but I'm going to give it away. My point is, during that message, I'm going to give away the whole thousand dollars that's like, because it's going to be eyeopening when you see cash exchange hands. Whoa, wait a second, that's a big deal. The problem is is we have become focused on if I give, god is going to multiply. God is going to multiply that gift in cash. Not always.
Speaker 1Sometimes that's good health, sometimes that's healthy relationships, sometimes that's a spiritual awakening. There's all of these things that can come from that. But we get so hyper-focused on it being monetary because that's the exchange right, almost like there's an exchange rate with God. Do you know what I mean? If I pay in a hundred dollars in US currency, he pays me back $110 in spiritual currency. It's not how. That's not how it works. That blessing is going to come in a typically unexpected way. All right, I've talked a lot. Anybody else have any strong opinions? You want me to keep going? I keep going, I keep going, I keep going.
Speaker 1Here's the other thing that I really struggle with. As a pastoral family, we do a lot of things for you guys, just for whomever. And you know, beth, we bought you a pot roast one time, not because she needed it, not because she was like, oh I can't afford a pot roast. She wanted one. She said she was never gonna pay that price for one Easton. And I stopped, bought her one and dropped it off on her front porch. We do that stuff for people all the time.
Speaker 1My family typically provides a Thanksgiving box for family and we let them tell us what they want. Like do you want a turkey or a ham? Do you want mashed potatoes? Like, do you prefer a certain type? Like you tell us what you want. Do you want real potatoes? We've always done that, and we do that because we believe that that's what we're supposed to do as not just a pastoral family representing the church, but as disciples of Christ who should honestly always be active in the community in doing those things. What I struggle with is that when we come together as a church, we always feel like there has to be a specific mission, a specific goal at the end of the mission. Right, so the big one right now for me is what I'm doing in the gym. We're spending a lot of money to make that happen and people can't wrap their head around it. As a matter of fact, we had one person in the church praying against it.
Speaker 4It wasn't me Beth's like. Why did you look at me?
Men's Engagement in Church
Speaker 1No, we had one person in the church who, knowingly, was not in support of it and was praying against it. Now, if you have a problem with the vision, come chat with me, right? If you're praying against the vision of the building, the vision of the ministry of your pastor, you're sowing discord, you're sowing chaos, honestly ill will. Because once I found out, you better believe I was after him, right, and so they heard the vision. Not long ago, we were standing in the gym and they were able to hear the vision and they went oh wow, that's really exciting. Where were you at? Like this is, I have told. I have spoken this vision since I've gotten it Like this is and it hasn't really altered other than maybe some minor details. The vision has always been the same. So the question is is why were you ever confused by what it was? You were confused because you didn't actually listen and you weren't engaged when it was being talked about Announcements on Sunday morning. People talk to the announcements every Sunday and I tell Holly every week, why do we even do this? Because after church, people text us. What day did you say that was? Why don't you write it down? Take a picture of the slide that's up on the screen right like I don't. We've got a calendar. Take one of the what? Why are you texting me right now? And I still I always like, okay, I just have to answer them. I just have to give them what they want, because I want them to be available, I want them to be here.
Speaker 1The problem is is I'll use men's night. How many guys do we have? Five, six, one, two, one, two, three, four, five. There were six of us, six of us there. Okay, we probably had four other guys who were like, oh, we're on the fence, we might be able to be there, we might not be able to be there. I knew it was only going to be the six of us. I set for seven, set for eight, eight, set for eight, just because that was the size of the table, but I knew we weren't going to have eight people there. I knew it was the same six guys who volunteer for all of the other stuff. I'm not trying to beat anybody, cause you know I get it. I want to be with my family on Friday stuff. I'm not trying to beat anybody because you know I get it. I want to be with my family on Friday night. I want to go see a movie. Whatever I get it, the problem is is men are not engaged with one another in this building like we should be.
Speaker 1It's true.
Speaker 3And I think once we do have that connection, I really think that's when it.
Speaker 1I agree with you and which is is. It's why it's my driving force to get people, get the men and I say people because tanya can't just, she just can't just be a woman. She got to do both. I sent a text to all of the guys. I said, hey, I'll take any help I can get on monday night to come in and help. We need to set up chairs. We've got some stuff we need to do. Tanya showed up with mike. I'm like I sent that to just the men. She's like well, I know, but I just and I'm like I'm, I was just giving her a hard time. I'm like obviously we'll use whatever help we can get. But again, the point was try to engage as many men as we can to come together, just spend time in the building together. So here's what I said. I people keep asking me what time are you going to be here on Friday morning? And here's what I keep saying.
Speaker 3Saturday morning.
Speaker 1Or Saturday morning. I keep saying I'm going to be here at 9 am.
Speaker 2Huh, that's what time I told my wife. I says what time are you going to church? I said probably around nine.
Speaker 1So he gets it. He also sees how I work, so I said I'm going to be here. Do that before I start getting my hands dirty. I've said that to at least three or four other men. I would love to see how many of those other guys show up at nine o'clock just to be part of that. The answer Well, one. There will be one, not Roger. Me and Roger will be here.
Speaker 1We are kind of counted as one anymore at this point, that's true, because you can usually count that if Roger is there, I'm there, or if I'm there, roger is there, there will be one other guy. There will be one other guy I know who it is.
Speaker 3I know and I was going to say I bet you could guess who it is yeah.
Speaker 1But there's a level of engagement now that with that person that you can't like, you almost have to like get a cattle prod to get him to not come because he's so badly wants to be engaged. I'm excited about that because that equals growth in my mind, not not physical growth, but spiritual growth. And when somebody can say, hey, I need this time together, and some people are like well, I need to spend time with pastor Michael, I want to be able to have understand how his brain works, I want to be able to have him pour into me.
Speaker 3That's great, not me.
Speaker 1Roger says well, there's another project, that's the best time to do that.
Speaker 2Yeah.
Speaker 1Because if you think you're going to get me one-on-one, it's never going to happen. I mean it can, it will happen, but it's rare. It's few and far between, and usually it's when there's a crisis and I have to give up something else in order to make that time available a crisis and I have to give up something else in order to make that time available.
Speaker 1I understand some of us work. I understand some of us have, you know, odd schedules. We don't keep normal work schedules, but the majority of the men in this church keep normal work schedules. I can look around the room and pretty much I can't tell you what exactly everybody works, but what they do. Most of us aren't working Saturday morning. Most of us aren't working late Friday evening. There's opportunity to be together. There's not desire, and you're right when that changes, when the men say and for far too long, for far too long, the church has been led spiritually by women, they're the ones that pray. Listen, there's probably not a man on your prayer chain. Think through the list.
Speaker 2Is there a man on that list?
Speaker 1There used to be. Who was it? Roger T.
Speaker 4I don't know if he was on the prayer chain.
Speaker 1He was Typically you had to call him, though don't know if he was on the prayer chain or not. He was. He was Typically you had to call him, though, but yes, he was Five years. That's how it's been.
Speaker 2Five years.
Speaker 1Because there's something about being emotional that we don't like to do. Listen, I admit it, I don't like it at all. I hate it as a matter of fact. But the problem is is there comes a point when somebody said to me once they, they they're struggling with their faith because they feel silly when they're doing certain things, like if you go to the altar for an altar call or you know cause, you feel like people are looking at you. You feel silly.
Speaker 1And I think to myself, and I think specifically about Ed. You know, when Ed delivers a message in tongues, there is nothing like. Every one of us that are sitting here that have experienced that it's like-.
Speaker 3I feel like the whole town just stops yeah everything gets quiet, nothing moves.
Speaker 1That's being incredibly vulnerable to a move of the spirit. But the rest of us stand there with our arms crossed. We don't want to, we don't want to engage, we don't want to, we don't want to partake. You know, it's the best day for me on Sunday mornings when I see at least two men go to the altar. Now I can count on two men almost every Sunday.
Speaker 2Yeah.
Speaker 1Marcus and Mike. Those two, they aren't afraid of it. Right, they're willing to engage in that. But everybody else? Well, I'll just sit in my seat. We have to learn to lead our families. We have to learn to lead our church, our congregation, our friends, all of those people. We have to be willing to lead them to Jesus. Many of them won't find it on their own. We had a guest last Sunday, a young lady. She came, she sat by herself over on the far side of the building and somebody sent me a screenshot of a Facebook post that she made, just glowing about how wonderful we were and how kind everybody treated her and how wonderful the message was and all of those things. And I think, if she doesn't come back this Sunday, we really need to reevaluate what it is that we're doing and why we're doing it Right.
Speaker 1Because there's a problem, right, if that person was so engaged when they walked out of here. My question is this who has reached out to her since Sunday? Anybody want to? I?
Speaker 4mean, is it somebody that people know?
Speaker 1You're not talking into your microphone so nobody heard that.
Speaker 4Okay, I said, is she somebody that?
Speaker 1people yes no, okay, but here's the thing, even if you don't know her, did anybody go up and say hey, here's a welcome card. Fill this out for us so we can reach out to you?
Speaker 2well, no, I'm sorry, where I don't even know where the welcome welcome cards are, right out on the marker board.
Speaker 1Right out on the marker board. It's a little square card and it's just basically personal information name, address, telephone number, backsides, prayer requests it's the ones we use in the box.
Speaker 4It's the ones we use in the food pantry. Oh okay.
Speaker 1So, no, not it out. Not everybody's going to fill it out, but if we don't at least try, what have we done to be able to pour into that person? Through the week, because it's now Wednesday and I know that at least one person has reached out to her. But there's a guy that sneaks into church probably two Sundays a month, maybe three. It's a husband and wife and a small group of children. They always sneak in during announcements or right after announcements. They sit towards the back. I don't even know their names.
Speaker 4On this far side Yep.
Speaker 1I don't even know their names.
Speaker 3Which far side?
Speaker 1Like over.
Speaker 3I know the lady.
Speaker 1I know the faces. When she was smaller she used to come to this church. But my point is who's reaching out to them through the week to just say, hey, you're loved.
Speaker 3If you need anything. If it's someone, is she kind of where I typically I don't know. Yeah, okay, she actually would text me on facebook and yeah, so but that's she started coming I don't think it's the same person.
Speaker 1No, I don't think it's the same person. How many?
Speaker 3kids three.
Speaker 2I don't, oh, never mind, okay, I don't think it's the same person because they don't sit on the same side as you do.
Speaker 1Usually they sit in the back, where harry and alona sit oh okay, I don't know, then like clear back like against the sound booth, against the very back wall right next to the sound booth. Harry and alona usually sit there and tracy usually sits there. That's their go-to seat. If it's not available, if harry and alona are already here, they'll they go to move. Go to to the far side.
Speaker 2Yeah.
Speaker 3Gotcha.
Speaker 2Yeah, so it's not the same people that I was family that I was thinking of.
Speaker 1So I usually catch them in the hallway, because I'm usually coming out to go to the bathroom before announcements or something like that, and I usually but I always say good morning. But they're just getting in, they're wrangling their kids you know, they've got two of them by the leg and they're trying to get everybody in the sanctuary. And so I try. This is a true fact and I don't care who wants to argue.
Speaker 1Once the headset goes on the ears and the microphone is on, it is really hard to talk to people without intimidating them, because that once the pastor becomes like, it's that, oh geez, I don't want to, I don't want to embarrass myself or I don't want to. So it's like hey, good morning, and then they run. I don't want to embarrass myself or I don't want to. So it's like hey, good morning, and then they run. Like I need, on Sunday morning, solid people who can greet and be in agreement with people whenever they're like hey, you know, we're here because life is really hard on us. Right now. Those people could be coming in because they don't have any groceries and we haven't told them about the cupboard of hope. Right, they could be coming in, going man, we don't know where we're going to get our next meal and we've got food to feed them, but we don't feed them. Did you just hear a loud noise?
Speaker 4Yeah.
Speaker 1Chances are. One of my sound panels just fell off the wall in the gym. It echoes all the way down, sounds like a gunfire, and they're a little cardboard. They're just like a little flimsy, but it's really loud. Do you see my point? Sunday morning has become. I feel like we're wrangling cats.
Speaker 3Well, I am in the morning, cooper, he's basically a cat.
Speaker 1Everything is going its own separate way, and so, you know, we instituted the coffee station. Don has so graciously offered to help me with that. But Don and I are now making coffee every Sunday morning, and we're doing that from 9 to 9.45. We would desperately love to go to prayer on Sunday mornings, but guess what? We don't get to do. We don't get to go to prayer because we're still cleaning up coffee. That doesn't seem fair. We're two of the few people who actually want to show up in the prayer room, so we shouldn't have to fight for that. We need people to volunteer inside of that ministry. We need people who are willing to learn and willing to try. You just can't get it.
Speaker 1It's, and I whoa that was a, that was a noise. We try desperately to get people to engage and sometimes you're good for a week, two weeks, maybe a month, maybe three months, but eventually and I get this from a volunteer standpoint sometimes I just don't feel appreciated Right, but understand that if just because just don't feel appreciated, right, but understand that if just because somebody doesn't say it. That's right, Like goodness gracious.
Speaker 4You're not doing it for that. Well, some people are For the Lord, some people are.
Speaker 1Some people need that. And again Not that's why they're doing it. They need that in order to feel fulfilled, so that they have the energy to keep doing it. Yeah, so I. I do get that. You know it work. I bust my butt all the time. I have never had any. I shouldn't say I've never had anybody like typically, when I my owners tell me once a quarter, hey, we appreciate you, and that's whenever they give me my bonus. In the email that tells me how much my bonus is, it's like this is the.
Speaker 1Easiest check to write every quarter because of all of your hard work. Thank you so much for everything that you do. It's usually an email like that Great, but sometimes we need that. Some people require it more often than others. I also can't be the guy that's always doing that. You know how, dawn, when we make coffee on Sunday mornings, there are some people like, oh, thank you so much, we appreciate this. Right, right, it makes it worth it. Like, just because you gave us 10 bucks for three dollar coffee, I mean that helps. But it does help when people are kind and genuine and like, yes, really understand and yeah, it's just, it's unfortunate we don't have more of it. All right, I'm off my high horse now you fall off, yeah yeah, I really do just hope I will say this.
Speaker 3My one store manager used to always say you know, take initiative, do it now and ask for forgiveness later, you know yeah, don't come in here and try to burn the building down, right?
Speaker 1do you know what I mean? But if you see something like this is one and I blame roger for this, by the way, this is roger's fault and it really is, but he doesn't know. It's his fault. Yes, he does so.
Finding Balance in Leadership
Speaker 1If you ever go in and out of our building, you notice how the lights on the wall are never on until nighttime. We put dusk to dawn bulbs in there with a permanent light switch that's always flipped on. Okay, so at dusk those bulbs come on, at dawn they go off, all right. We also did that with the lights that are in the ceiling of the the of the walkway. So a couple of them burn out and I said, roger, hey, can you put new desk to dawn bulbs in there? Well, roger, just put regular bulbs in there, so they're on all the time, but they're LEDs. Doesn't matter, and it's not about the electric usage, it's more about the fact that only two of the bulbs are on all day long. That needs to be fixed, and every time I walk in I'm like man, I really need to get to that. There's bigger fish to fry, right? There's other projects that are happening, so that just it has to wait.
Speaker 2It's only got one. Screw in it too.
Speaker 1Yeah, because Roger dropped that one on the ground. We can't find the other nut to hold that bad boy on. I came in one day and he's down there on the ground with a flashlight looking for this nut. He said, roger, he actually lost both of them. We found one, fortunately. Well, that's going to be fixed here in a few weeks, he'll be able to find things. Well, I couldn't find it. It probably rolled off the concrete into the grass, it was game over.
Speaker 4At that point I mean his visions, I hope.
Speaker 1One time we were putting in his door stops he didn't even have the the screw tip in the screw. I was like Roger, so now I'm having to Guide the drill into the screw tip in the screw. I was like Roger, so now I'm having to guide the drill into the screw so he can put the screw in, because he couldn't see anything.
Speaker 4We have a lot of fun.
Speaker 1We do have a lot of fun that one door it's ripped right out of the door. It won't yeah, and we've put. Because there's nothing behind it. We put drywall anchors in, it just won't hold, so we have to find a new solution. But that's the stuff that I'm talking about. When somebody sees that and goes, you know what I could fix that?
Speaker 4Fix it. I ain't going to fix it, fix it.
Speaker 1Instead they walk by and they're like, oh, somebody broke that, oh, somebody peed on the floor, leave it. Seriously, it's insane, the stuff that you will see. It's crazy, and I know that nobody has noticed that hot water tank leaking other than me, but if anybody noticed it past Roger, it would probably just continue to leak. Nobody would. I should probably say something.
Speaker 3And I mean, if their concern is like, well, I have to be there a time, michael or Roger will be there, no, you don't. You can literally get in with the code. Michael can change the code, yep.
Speaker 1Right, I can leave. Not even that. I can give you a code that will last you forever If you need to get into the building for whatever reason. And then the reason that we did that is we were issuing keys to people. When I first took over the church, everybody in Tuscarawas County had a key to this building. Everybody did. Now there are four keys in circulation. You have one.
Speaker 4Mine's number four.
Speaker 1You have one, holly has one. I keep one in my bag and then there's one inside of the lockbox. Okay, the one inside of the lockbox is all, it's always there. I can put in codes into that lockbox to allow people to get in and then if, for whatever reason, you stop attending or whatever I just changed, I just remove your code from the lockbox. Now I don't have you having a key and me having to chase you down to get said key back, because chances are you've left, because you're mad at me and you aren't giving the key back anyway.
Speaker 1So I mean, yeah, but there's always a way into the building. And if I won't give door codes to all of the doors, but if I know you need in, I'll make sure that there's a code programmed for you. There's so much that we could do if we would, if truly we would, band together and say what can I take on what, what can I help do? And there's things that can be done weekly, like every week. I'm pretty sure there's a poopy diaper in the nursery trash, can? I'm about 40% certain of that. And the reason I say that is I came in Monday night and I was like something stinks in here. I went in there today to swap out the light switch in the bathroom and I was like something stinks in here. Chances are, and if we don't do anything until the church gets cleaned on Saturday, that smell is going to be hard to get out of here.
Speaker 4Yeah, I keep smelling something in that room that you moved the cupboard of hope to Well there's probably a dead animal in the ceiling.
Speaker 2There's something in there. I don't smell anything in there, I've never smelled anything in there either.
Speaker 4I'm like tearing that refrigerator apart. I was even smelling boxes the other day.
Speaker 1I will tell you that refrigerator smelled like cigarette smoke Initially.
Speaker 4I thought when I first went in you know how the older refrigerators have that drip.
Speaker 1Yeah, the drip tray. I don't think that one does it doesn't.
Speaker 4Yeah, that one's I looked, I was tracing it down to that.
Speaker 1Yeah, I don't think so, but it did smell and when the compressor would kick on you could smell it. Like I definitely smelled that when we first plugged it in. But there are things that can be done every week. You don't have to ask, you don't have to, you don't even need in the building, yeah, you just stop by and take care of it. If you're really bored and want something to do and have nothing to do, you can rake all of the gravel back into the parking lot. Now, I know that seems extreme, but seriously.
Speaker 3By Saturday, please by.
Speaker 1Saturday, please, is that we use the excuse well, I don't know what to do. There's always something to do. You can walk up to the front of the building and see that there is something to do. This isn't new. There's nothing that's like oh well, I don't know how. Trust me, there's something here you can do. You can clean toilets, vacuum carpets. This is a big building With a good vacuum. Good vacuum Tyler. This is a big building with a good vacuum. Good vacuum Tyler likes to use the junky vacuum. I say that it's not really a junky vacuum. He bought a stick vac and it's it's okay, but it doesn't get deep enough. And so I had bought a commercial that we'd bought a commercial vacuum a few years ago and it's actually self-propelled. When you turn it on, that beater brush moves so fast. It'll pull the sweeper in front of you, but it's heavy and it's bulky, so people don't like to use it. But it's the only one that I'll use. Only one I'll use. That's the same sweeper that we had at the hotel.
Speaker 1It's the same sweeper we used in the hotel. That's why I bought it. You can replace every part on it. It can't clog Every spot. You it can't clog every spot. You can like open it up and pull out any clogs that get in there, so you never have to worry about it.
Speaker 4But sweepers is something that's worth spending.
Speaker 1Yeah, buddy it was um it was, it was donated. I asked I wanted to buy one and um during council, somebody donated the money to buy it, but it was $800, $800 sweeper, so I think there's just.
Speaker 1We have to think about all of the things, not just the things that we like to do. I've had that conversation with lots of people. I don't like to make coffee every sunday morning, don, I'm sure there are better things for you to do on sunday morning than make coffee. But we do it because we like to serve and we want to find a way to serve when people are in need, not just when we feel like, oh, I only want to serve when I are in need, not just when we feel like, oh, I only want to serve when, I want to serve.
Speaker 3Or I only want to serve in my ministry, or the ministry I think I'm called to. And that could change.
Speaker 1That's a big one too. There are some people who say, oh well, I know that I'm supposed to. I don't know. They don't know either. Most of the time they think they do. Oh, I'm supposed to do worship. I know that I am called to worship and because we don't have live worship, I just won't serve at all until we have live worship. Wrong-o, if I can't trust you with little, I can't trust you with much, and I'm going to tell you, being on that platform with a microphone in your face, that's much. And if I can't trust you with little, the inheritance with all of his servants, you know. The first one served and served well. The second one served and served well. The third one served, but his heart wasn't in the right place. He buries the gold, comes back with the exact same gold. He wasn't really in it for anything more than just survival. So when you serve, you have to serve with your heart in the right place and I get.
Speaker 1being here on Sunday morning early is hard. There are harder things in life, way harder things in life than being here a little early on a Sunday morning. But you can't change people's minds.
Speaker 4I have every intention of being here early Then, oh, I'm going to throw a load of laundry in. I'm going to do up these dishes real quick.
Speaker 1You know what's funny to me?
Speaker 3I haven't done my hair. Yet Are you sure you don't have ADHD?
Speaker 1She probably does, because here's what I was going to say. Here's what I was going to say, if you are anything like me and with your ADHD. So, if I have today, I was going to Boardman to pick up a minivan for work. Okay, so I'm doing the backwards math. Right, I have to be in Euricsville no later than 530. It's a two hour drive from Boardman to Berlin and then 40 minutes plus to get my car and come back here. So I need three hours backwards from 530.
Prayer and Closing Thoughts
Speaker 1Right, ok, so that puts me at X. And then I have to have time to charge my car because I was driving the Tesla, so I was going to have time to charge my car because I was driving the Tesla, so I was going to have to have time to charge the Tesla on that drive. So now I need to leave a half hour earlier than that and I do this all the way back until my day starts, okay, so in order to make this happen in time, I have to be at work by 630 in the morning, right, like, does anybody else do that? And your whole day is gone because you have one appointment at the end of the day.
Speaker 3Oh, that's me. Yeah, I'm like well, I have an appointment at three, so I can't do anything before.
Speaker 1Right, because if I do something before, start a load of laundry. Next thing I know I've done 12 loads of laundry and I have not gotten ready to get to that appointment.
Speaker 3No, no, no. I don't do 12 loads of laundry.
Speaker 1I see that the dog food needs picked up or something, and then I get sidetracked you start one load, you don't even fully start the washer, you forget to close the lid and now you're doing dishes. But then you stop doing dishes to clean the window, and then you stop cleaning that window because, oh you realize, cooper's left a toy on the floor or throw a toy in the toilet and the toilet overflows. I get it. It's real life, I get it, I get it.
Speaker 4I clean like that. I tear up multiple rooms. I do too, Harvey. I'll come home and he'll say I thought you were cleaning.
Speaker 1I said I am I am he's like.
Speaker 4and what do you? Got finished, he said because I can't even see the bed for all the clothes you got thrown on there. I said I'll get it.
Speaker 1It's so funny. At home I really have to focus that energy. I went up and down the basement steps this is not a joke Six times for one project the other day because I couldn't focus. I couldn't get my brain to just hone in on the project. So finally I just said you know what? I'm just not going to do it right now. I'm going to find something better to do with my time, because it's not productive. I do the same thing here. It is not productive for me to show up here if I don't have a mission, because I just come in and I just start doing whatever I can get my hands on and guess what? And then everything's tore up, Everything's tore up.
Speaker 4And then we find the gym in complete disarray a week before the Easter egg hunt. Well, when the water line in my bathroom to the bathtub broke and we had to read, jarvi had to redo that not once but twice, because he broke it after he did it the first time and all my makeup and all my hair stuff was out in the dining room. I needed an extra 45 minutes to get ready for work because everything was where it was supposed to be and, if anybody knows me, I'm always a half hour late for work before I even did Davis Before.
Speaker 1I roll out of bed. Okay, are we good? Everybody feel good. I mean, that was a pretty intense. Well, you needed it.
Speaker 4You needed to do that well, I will say, on the gym thing, I was one that was like what in the world does he?
Speaker 1until you saw the black paint go up on the stage you get it.
Speaker 4I'm one.
Speaker 1I can't see a finished project I have to see it finished.
Speaker 4Project I get it I have to see it as it progresses.
Speaker 1You probably shouldn't admit this out loud. So think about your answer before you say it. But would you have actively prayed against the project?
Speaker 4No.
Speaker 1Because that's the problem, like I get, not everybody sees things the way that I do, and even when I'm looking at it, I'm like, okay, I like this, but I feel like I need to pivot and change it, and that happens regularly. But when I'm seeing the vision, I'm seeing completed project and I'm not seeing the small details. So like those final touches come in time, eventually, right In time. But you also have to understand that it's not, it doesn't happen overnight.
Speaker 1Like a kitchen remodel Exactly, and you know what. You pick the color of the cabinets and then you hope that everything comes together after you pick the color of the cabinets. Sometimes you pick the color of the cabinets and then the countertop doesn't match, or you pick the color of the countertop and then the backsplash doesn't match. There has to be room for change, and so I keep a very open mind when I walk into those projects.
Speaker 1Change and so, like I keep a very open mind when I walk into those projects, but to actively speak against or pray against the project is just to me it's baffling because it tells me that you're not in the right place, and whether that's physically in the right place, this isn't the place for you to be, but this isn't the place for you to worship, or you're not in the right headspace. You're not in the right emotional or spiritual place. Those are big and hard conversations to have with people.
Speaker 3You need a heart check.
Speaker 1Yep, and there's some people that are just bulldogs. They just are always like it doesn't matter, it's not good enough. He said you want to see something really cool? Watch, I get it right on the first one.
Speaker 3You got to label it for me. Why? Because I have a mom brain now it's the first one. It's the first one why do I always think it's B.
Speaker 1She always asks me and I say, oh, it's the first one. Now, we all know it's the first one. Now, we'll see who remembers it next time. Let's pray together.
Speaker 1Father, I thank you and I praise you for our time together this evening. Lord, I pray that you just continue to lead us, guide us and direct us. Lord, every week that we come together, I'm thankful for the podcast and the people who sit around this table, but, lord, I'm always thankful for your wisdom and your word. Lord, I pray that, as we move from this place today, that you give us guidance and direction. Lord, that you just continue to speak into our lives and allow us to understand the importance of being in service for you, lord, but being in fellowship with one another.
Speaker 1Lord, there's nothing like being together on a Sunday morning or just being together on a Wednesday night. I pray, lord, that you just keep giving people the burning desire to be in your presence and in your house. Lord, I thank you for all of the people who give so wonderfully to this ministry. Lord, I pray that you continue to bless them, bless their hearts, bless their minds, bless their finances. Father, god, just allow them to continue to just receive all that it is that you have for them. Lord, I thank you, I praise you. I give you honor and glory in the mighty name of your son, jesus Christ, amen, amen.
Michael Brindley
Host
Beth Jarvis
Co-host
Dawn Reed-Enochs
Co-host
Nic Affolter
Co-host
Roger Deardorff
Co-host
Sydney Erickson
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