Growing Together
Step into a virtual garden of spiritual growth and community connection with the "Growing Together" podcast. This podcast is a nurturing space for individuals seeking to deepen their faith, cultivate relationships, and explore the boundless beauty of a shared spiritual journey.
Each episode of "Growing Together" is a breath of fresh air, where Pastor Michael, Syd, Nic, Pastor Holly, and Pastor Roger try to navigate the twists and turns of life while staying rooted in faith. Their warm and inviting presence makes you feel like you're sitting in a cozy living room, engaged in a heartfelt conversation with old friends.
Diving into topics ranging from personal growth and self-care to building resilient relationships and fostering a sense of community, the podcast aims to equip listeners with the tools to nurture their faith in all aspects of life. Through scripture readings, open discussions, and interviews with experts in various fields, "Growing Together" provides a holistic approach to spiritual development.
Whether you're a lifelong believer, a seeker on the spiritual path, or simply someone curious about how faith can shape lives, "Growing Together" offers a welcoming haven for everyone. Tune in during your morning routine, while taking a leisurely stroll, or even during a quiet moment of reflection – the podcast fits seamlessly into your daily life.
Join the "Growing Together" community and embark on a journey of discovery, growth, and genuine connection. In a world that can sometimes feel disconnected, this podcast reminds us that nurturing our faith and cultivating meaningful relationships can lead to a life that's deeply fulfilling and spiritually abundant. Subscribe now to start your journey of growing together in faith and fellowship.
Growing Together
Hosanna, Save Us!
The word "Hosanna" echoes through churches worldwide, but few understand its true meaning has become distorted over time. What began as a desperate plea for salvation—literally "save us" in Hebrew—has transformed into a name of praise for Jesus. This transformation mirrors a profound misunderstanding that occurred during Jesus' triumphal entry into Jerusalem.
As we unpack this linguistic evolution, we discover three distinct groups present that day: true believers who understood Jesus' spiritual mission, hopeful revolutionaries expecting political liberation from Rome, and threatened religious authorities like Caiaphas who saw Jesus as a dangerous disruption to their power structure. Each shouted the same word with entirely different expectations.
Jesus navigated this complexity with remarkable wisdom, speaking in parables not to confuse but to communicate profound truth without providing ammunition to those who sought to trap him. His calculated actions fulfilled prophecy at every turn—from riding a humble donkey instead of a warhorse to clearing the corrupt marketplace from the temple. Even his cry from the cross, "Why have you forsaken me?" served to fulfill Psalm 22 while experiencing the separation from God that sin creates.
This conversation challenges us to examine our own understanding of salvation. Have we, like many in that Jerusalem crowd, reduced our faith to seeking material blessings rather than spiritual redemption? Has modern worship, with its focus on emotional experience over scriptural depth, left us knowing song lyrics better than Bible verses? The Easter story invites us to move beyond shallow engagement toward a deeper relationship with the One who gave everything to save us from something far worse than political oppression—eternal separation from God himself.
So, believe it or not, I have about $3,000 worth of shows on the books right now. So the rule is is I have to have at least some of the money in hand and then I have to have enough on the books to pay for it. So I called Alyssa and I said listen, I really want to do it. Her and I have talked about it a million times and she says you don't have enough money yet. You don't have enough money yet. Well, now I had more than enough, so I bought it white. It is white, yeah, yeah, yeah. I can't wait. I I did buy this when used. So this is coming from a jumpsuit maker out of thailand that I've never bought from um, but it's a, a guy that I've purchased other pieces from in the past. So, oh, I haven't seen, I haven't touched it myself, but he sent me all pictures, videos, all that fun stuff. He's a little bit bigger than me, so I'm going to have to make some minor adjustments to it once it comes. Well, yeah, but you might fit into it Ultimately, yeah.
Speaker 2:At this point, I probably could.
Speaker 1:Ultimately, even if it needs some minor alteration, it's still I bought it brand new change. So, yeah, yeah, I can't wait for it to come. How long is it gonna take? It's coming from australia. So what are you wearing to the show? Which show, which show? Oh, I'm gonna take all of them, because after each competition, after each round, so if I go from round one to round two, I'm changing jumpsuits. I'm going, I'm going to round two with a fresh jumpsuit.
Speaker 3:I can see Easton being your like.
Speaker 2:Roadie.
Speaker 3:Well, like how you're like with golf, you've got your little cap.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, he carries the wig bag and the sideburns. Yeah, I'm really excited to kick off.
Speaker 4:What are you going out there first?
Speaker 1:What am I going to wear? Wear first. So that's really hard because I haven't fully decided. I think it's gonna be the tiger.
Speaker 3:I think it's gonna be the tiger what do you think like the most people will come out in like uh, black fireworks, aloha and spectrum those three suits are.
Speaker 1:They're affordable. I would say Aloha. Well, not a lot of people wear Aloha. Do you guys hear crackling in your ears?
Speaker 3:I think I did.
Speaker 1:Or is it just me? Anyhow, aloha, while it is not the cheapest suit, it's the most iconic and recognizable, yeah, yeah. So people lean on that as a Go-to. Yeah, you hearing it. I hear that. On that as a go-to. Yeah, you hearing it. It's weird.
Speaker 2:I wasn't touching anything.
Speaker 3:Let's do this, not this time.
Speaker 2:Excuse me, not this time I muted.
Speaker 1:Dawn and Beth. Since they're not here this evening, where are they at? Dawn is on vacation, dawn headed to Florida and Beth said she got held up at work so she wasn't gonna be able to make it.
Speaker 4:So hmm she can't do it without dawn, can she?
Speaker 1:well, um, I covered some of our tonight's topic in last week's message. But I ended up not preaching last week's message the way it was originally written, because it got a little deeper than I felt like I wanted to do on a Sunday morning. So I pivoted a little bit. So I want to go back to it and visit it today. Believe it or not, my Bible is in the sanctuary so I'm going to have to go grab it real quick. But basically we want to talk about the name Hosanna or the phrase Hosanna, we. Basically we want to talk about the name Hosanna or the phrase Hosanna In our mind.
Speaker 2:I'll go grab it.
Speaker 1:It has kind of become, because, honestly I don't know. I'm going to have to look. Oh, okay, it has become almost a name that we use for Jesus. It's not how it was originally intended. So I want to jump into that, but feel free to have casual conversation while I go get my Bible.
Speaker 3:Well, Nick showed up with his Bible today with tabs.
Speaker 4:so he's ready, oh, he's ready.
Speaker 3:Well I gotta. I don't think those tabs are like. You normally have those tabs in that location, right?
Speaker 4:Well, I've moved them around because they're just, you can put them in.
Speaker 3:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 4:So yeah, I've moved them around over the years.
Speaker 2:I can't wait till I'll be able to read mine again.
Speaker 3:It's coming up.
Speaker 2:Week from yesterday. My follow-up would be today for a week.
Speaker 4:What His eye surgery.
Speaker 2:My eye surgery.
Speaker 4:That's right, forgot about that. Yeah, how'd that go.
Speaker 2:Well, I don't know, I haven't done it yet. Oh, I can't see any better now than I did a week ago.
Speaker 3:Got to have it first. Yeah, wait, you said the follow-up.
Speaker 4:Yeah, that's why I thought you had it yeah.
Speaker 2:Evidently they want to take and check it the day after to make sure that it's starting to heal or whatever. I don't know that's starting to heal or whatever.
Speaker 4:I don't know. Yeah, well, I had a surgery in one eye and I think within two days yeah, I was back up there getting reevaluated so yeah, they want to make sure everything's healing the way it's supposed to.
Speaker 2:Yeah, but yeah but worst thing is I only get one of them done it was really weird.
Speaker 4:I don't know how they'll do yours. I think mine was basically like a lasik surgery. But the weirdest thing is you know you're awake, yeah. They kind of pry your eye open, yeah, and then they start dumping all this fluid right over top of your eye and they just keep dumping it and it's almost like you're drowning. Oh like, and I didn't, they didn't tell me beforehand, yeah, I'd be prepared for a lot of this liquid to just keep.
Speaker 2:Well, they didn't tell me about the liquid, but they said that you will be awake.
Speaker 4:So I almost felt like I was drowning.
Speaker 3:Yeah, because I'm trying to A washboard yeah.
Speaker 4:I was like how long is this going to go on? So it wasn't painful, but just that Weird yeah.
Speaker 2:I just wasn't prepared for that. Did you have to look up and down, or whatever?
Speaker 4:Yeah, well, they kind of kept, I think, as I recall they just said, just keep looking up and try to keep your eye as still as you can keep it open, Like don't blink, don't move around a whole lot, and I'm like, okay, that shouldn't be too hard.
Speaker 2:But then they start dumping that water at me continuously and I'm like I feel like I'm drowning.
Speaker 1:I guess you're going to play Pinochle I feel like you've got a lot of explaining to do, he came back.
Speaker 4:Yeah he's like I couldn't find my Bible, so we're just going to play.
Speaker 3:Pinochle. Where's the white rabbit?
Speaker 1:Two decks of cards.
Speaker 3:yes, so Easton's grabbing my bag out of the car, I think.
Speaker 1:He got sidetracked.
Speaker 2:Yeah, see, then in two weeks I can go get it done again, get the other one done, but it's going to be three weeks because I'm going to North Carolina and I don't want to—it would have been on a Monday. We're leaving on Thursday to go to North Carolina, so I don't want to—it would have been on a Monday. We're leaving on Thursday to go to North Carolina, so I didn't want to— so you're going to drive with one eye to North Carolina. Well, hey, I'm driving with one eye anyway.
Speaker 1:I say one eye is better than no eyes, like you're currently doing.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's true.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so I don't know where my Bible is at. I have mine that I keep at home, my good one that I keep at home, but my preaching Bible is normally between here and the sanctuary. I probably took it home with me.
Speaker 2:I was going to say I didn't see it in the— when is he at?
Speaker 3:He's got your bag.
Speaker 1:Is he still outside?
Speaker 3:Yes.
Speaker 1:As far as 50 feet from where we're standing 50 feet from where we're standing.
Speaker 3:So when my sister shy, she had a lazy eye and they did a surgery when she was like 3 and they said they might have to come or 3 or 4, but they might have to go back in and do it later on like in life. Well, she got it done when she was like 16 or 17, but I do know like she was put under for that one because I can remember it was like like Cody Garbrandt was like fighting that night. She was like 16 or 17, but I do know like she was put under for that one because I can remember it was like like cody garbrandt was like fighting that night. She's like, oh yeah, cody's gonna fight, gonna knock him out, like she was hilarious. So I don't. I like I wonder what the difference is like when they put people out and I think they might have had to like cut one of her muscles.
Speaker 2:So maybe that was why. Probably why yeah?
Speaker 4:They have to do any snipping. Yeah, they'll put you out for that one. So you say she was acting like that because of the surgery, because of the drugs.
Speaker 3:Yeah, the drugs. Yeah, she was. It was funny. What would she say? Very emotional when we were taking her. That was, for her was funny and then she was. What did she say Like very emotional when we were taking her?
Speaker 2:That was for her wisdom teeth. She was like.
Speaker 1:Who was that Shy Shy.
Speaker 3:She's like I just want Cody to win. We're like yay, We've got videos. We've got videos to prove it. Yes, yes.
Speaker 1:All right, nick, kick us off.
Speaker 4:What do you got over there?
Speaker 1:You've got lots of little markings there.
Speaker 2:I want to kind of see where you wanted to take this. I have no predetermined destination, oh, all right, that's why we have to do it again, because he messed up Sunday.
Speaker 4:Well, okay, did we just start recording, or have we been recording?
Speaker 1:No, it's been recording.
Speaker 4:Okay, so I think we'll just start with as you said. Now we use Hosanna almost as a name for Jesus, but of course, that wasn't the original translation or meaning.
Speaker 4:I believe the original Hebrew translation is save us. And as Jesus is, you know, coming through Jerusalem during Passover, all the people in the crowd, that's what they're shouting Hosanna, king of David, things like that. Save us is basically what they're saying, but they don't quite have the meaning that we think of when we think of Jesus and saving us. They're thinking of this in more terms of an actual set us free from Roman rule.
Speaker 1:He wasn't here on Sunday. This is my Sunday message. I preached that exact statement on Sunday. This is my Sunday message. I preached that exact statement on Sunday.
Speaker 4:So you know, I just think, if you read into this what's going on during the Passover and what happens directly after, it's just this perfect storm that's happening that sends Jesus to the cross. All of these things have to come together, and part of it is these same people who are shouting, you know, Hosanna, save us, and are praising Jesus as he comes into Jerusalem will be the same people that condemn him.
Speaker 1:Crucify.
Speaker 4:Yeah. And it's because we have to believe that it's like oh, we thought you were going to do this and you know, and you didn't. And right now it's like you don't have. In my eyes. I think they're thinking well, he didn't have anything to show for showing up here and claiming to be the king, because he doesn't save us.
Speaker 1:So there were two groups of people standing there that day. So there were two groups of people standing there that day. They're all waving their palms and throwing their coats on the ground and yelling Hosanna, Hosanna, Son of David, all of those things. There's one, half of them, or one group of them, one pocket of them that believes and knows what he's going to do, because they know what he's capable of. The other group is yelling Hosanna, Hosanna, save us from Caesar, not from sin.
Speaker 3:Yeah, right, and that is the difference. Yes, and the first set is like his followers.
Speaker 1:Correct. The people who know who he is, the people who have bore witness to the miracles, the people who have seen the woman with the issue of blood, the people who have seen all of the miracles, jairus's daughter, all of the things that he has done, the raising of Lazarus. They're the ones who know what he's capable of.
Speaker 4:But there's also a third group, okay, which is the high priests. Yes, and of course, their main concern is, you know, jesus is going to cause this uprising and he is going to ruin our good situation that we have here in the temple. And I wanted to get into Caiaphas a little bit because I think he's an interesting part of the story that he basically says and a lot of people take this as he's prophesying what Jesus is going to do he's saying is it better for one man to die, you know, for Israel, for Jerusalem, than let the whole nation perish? And a lot of people say, oh, he's predicting what Jesus is going to do.
Speaker 4:On the cross, but that's not really what he's saying?
Speaker 1:He's saying kill him and let all of us live our lives the way we want to live them. Let's sacrifice him in order to keep the peace to keep the.
Speaker 4:Romans happy.
Speaker 2:Yes.
Speaker 4:Because if you know anything about Caiaphas, he's hired by the Romans to be the high priest. Yes, you know, that's how he comes into his situation, and I think at this point he is the longest standing high priest in the temple, and why lose that position?
Speaker 4:So he's got a lot to lose you know, if he buys into what Jesus is selling, he's going to lose his whole situation. And I believe Caiaphas he is should I say he's the highest priest. He is the one that actually goes behind the curtain in the temple, and it's said that behind that curtain there's the Ark of the Covenant and then, of course, there is the actual presence of God and he controls all of those covenant, and then, of course, there is the actual presence of God and he controls all of those things.
Speaker 1:So you know pay no attention to the man behind the curtain. Yeah, wizard of Oz, that's actually what I was thinking. That's what it makes me think about.
Speaker 4:It also makes me think about when, uh, the Grinch is trying to scare the kids off the mountain.
Speaker 1:He's got that big mask Of course the dog was barking into it.
Speaker 4:It's kind of like what Caiaphas is doing, you know.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 4:But uh, so yeah, when you think about it. Um cause, if you go into that story, you know Jesus is upset and turns the tables in the temple for the second time and.
Speaker 1:It must've been playing Monopoly.
Speaker 4:Yeah, a lot of people don't understand that what's going on in the temple is that when all these people come to Jerusalem for the Passover, they're exchanging their—a lot of people are exchanging money, but what's happening is the exchange of money is—they're exchanging what they have, but it's actually. How do I explain this? Help me out here. The exchange is higher for the priests who deal with the Romans, so they'll make money off every transaction. Yes, when they're changing their money in for their taxes.
Speaker 4:Like interest the priests and all that. They're making money, yeah, every time. And then also they're selling animals.
Speaker 2:For sacrifice, for sacrifice.
Speaker 4:So, they're making a lot of money off of selling sacrificial animals. So again they've got a lot of things stocked up in this temple.
Speaker 1:And so what? They've taken the temple—so I want to be very clear, because I think this is a fun conversation to have about Jesus, because a lot of people are like well, jesus got mad. Jesus' anger was righteous. There was a difference between a righteous anger and just being mean, right. So he saw what was happening in God's house, he saw what was happening in the temple and they turned it into a den of thieves. We're selling sacrificial animals, we're exchanging money, we've turned this into a marketplace rather than a place of worship, and that's why he was angry. And the anchor wasn't even why are you doing this? It's how dare you do this? He knew why they were doing it, he understood what was happening, but he was trying to get them to see that it was wrong. And you know I think, because we can all speculate what happened. Can you read between the lines? But he flips a table, people go, what's going on? And then they go right back to exchanging money and selling animals and really nothing changed.
Speaker 4:It doesn't stop the party, right? No, yeah, so yeah, so it's. You know, caiaphas, he's going to pretty much head up this. You know, he's going to be the one that really tries to influence people to. We need to kill this guy. And I read too, which I was trying to actually find it in scripture, scripture, but there's this idea that they also want to kill lazarus because?
Speaker 1:because he was big.
Speaker 4:But yeah, he's a big, but because he is the one um true physical example of what jesus has done. And if they let lazarus live, if people continue to see lazarus, I've heard that they'll buy into that yeah yes um, because he talks about the fact that you know everybody's like.
Speaker 4:Well, jesus didn't go to lazarus right away, he waited four days. Well, they say in custom. The reason he waited four days was because they believe that the spirit stayed with the body for up to four days after a person died. So Jesus knew this and knew that if he did it beforehand, people would say whoa, his spirit hasn't left his body yet. So what's the big deal?
Speaker 1:He's not really dead, he's not really dead.
Speaker 4:So he knew he had to in order to perform that miracle, to prove his point. He had to wait that time out to do that. So now you have Lazarus, who you know is alive. You know people know who he is and he's going to be that example. So there is, you know, history of the scripture where they're talking about the fact that they also want to seek Lazarus out and kill him as well. So it's a lot more complex story than we just think of Jesus going into Jerusalem and palm leaves. It's a great occasion, but it's so complex there's a lot going on.
Speaker 1:Well, let's go back to the original use of Hosanna in the Old Testament. It's Psalms 118.25. Let's see here so I'm reading New Living Translations. It says Please Lord, please save us, please Lord, please give us success. So the save us in—let me get back to my notes here, because I didn't preach any of this on Sunday. There's a lot of this that I didn't preach.
Speaker 1:Uh, the new Testament is written, was first written in Greek, and the old Testament was written in Hebrew. So the Hebrew word for save us was Hosanna. Now it's not spelled the way that. Yes, it is spelled the way that we spell Hosanna, because then when they move into the new Testament, they spell it differently but they use letters to make it sound like Hosanna. So it sounds the same but it is not spelled the same. Then, when we translated it to English, we took back the original Hebrew spelling of Hosanna. But we have I don't want to say manipulated, but we have taken that word save us, we've brought it into the New Testament and we've put a positive spin on it, which is fine. I don't think there's anything wrong with that. But I think for us, knowing what happened, it's easy to do, it's easy for us to look at that. Interpret that as they were. Praise be. Interpret that as they were. Praise be glory to God. He sent the Messiah, yada yada, but likely in the moment it was. Save us from Caesar.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 1:It was save us from oppression. It was save us from the physical, not the spiritual.
Speaker 3:And then a small corner of people.
Speaker 1:Yeah, the pocket of people who actually believe that he was the Messiah and the people who believe because he prophesied his death and resurrection three different times to the disciples and every time they would question what he was talking about because they didn't fully understand. Now the hard part is, is Jesus spoke in parables a lot, right. So if he's telling you that the son of man must die, but in three days he'll rise again, well, yeah, we're all going to rise again. Just like when he resurrected Lazarus, he told them that Lazarus isn't dead, he's only sleeping. Lazarus will rise again. Well, of course he will.
Speaker 1:In the last days, and yada, yada, they make this debate with Jesus. But I know, lord, whatever you say, whatever you say is what will happen. So they get it. But they don't get it get it. And so I can't imagine, because I would think that even if we, if you told the whole world today that the word Hosanna meant save us and Jesus is coming again, they would probably shout Hosanna. But thinking that they're going to be saved from drug addiction, that they're going to be saved from the physical and not the ultimate salvation of death on a cross so that we would have everlasting life. We can't always comprehend the grandeur of that statement you think about. Why are all those people going to Jerusalem in the first place? Yes, we can't always comprehend the grandeur of that statement.
Speaker 4:Yeah, Well, you know you think about why are all those people going to Jerusalem in the first place? Yes, you know of course they're going to pay their taxes.
Speaker 1:Pay taxes. I don't want to pay their taxes Right.
Speaker 4:So hey, save us yeah.
Speaker 3:It's time to show up here and pay these taxes.
Speaker 4:That's very true. I they got big expectations, yeah, and they're not thinking about you know what he's going to do. They have no idea and, like he said, I think even some of his disciples aren't quite sure what he's talking about. So it's and you're speaking about. You know Jesus speaking in parables. You know he this is. He knows what he's doing. He knows if he comes straight out and just says is real aggressive with people and just tells people straight out what he's going to do how he's going to do it.
Speaker 4:And, uh, he knows he's not. You'll get your point across, but it's not going to have the same effect, Right? And also, he knows that they're looking for anything. He'll say that will accuse him.
Speaker 3:Right.
Speaker 1:Yes.
Speaker 4:Of being a false prophet.
Speaker 1:And let's let's be real. Jesus was intelligent, even when standing in front of I don't remember who it was. They asked are you the Messiah? And he said you have said it.
Speaker 2:I think it was.
Speaker 1:Annas, you have said it. He didn't say it himself. You have said it. He did not say yes, you have said it. But I would also like to point out he said the exact same thing to Judas.
Speaker 2:So Judas said is it?
Speaker 1:me Lord. Yeah, you have said it.
Speaker 4:Well, and he had the parable. I can't quote it, but more or less he's speaking about. Okay, how many times has God himself sent the right people into this world to do his work? And the world has done everything they can to destroy him. So he gets up to John the Baptist. He doesn't say his name, but they all know who he's talking about.
Speaker 4:Right. So he's telling him like, yeah, I can give you all these examples in parable form of how the world has rejected you know god's word and and the men that were sent here to follow his word and do his work, and you've destroyed every single one of them. And he's counting himself in that parable. Yeah, you know but he's not coming straight out and saying you know, yeah, you killed John the Baptist and you did this and you did that, you know, because at the end of the day you wouldn't get your point across.
Speaker 4:And, like I said, and then once they see that you're angry, once they know that they've got you off balance, then he knows they can use that against him. So he's very careful about the words he chooses and I think Lincoln was always good at that. I think he got that example from the Bible. Usually, when he wanted to get a point across, he usually told a story instead of coming straight out and saying you need to do this or you need to do that, or you know. He always made people think about the situation Ronald Reagan did that a lot to get his point.
Speaker 4:So it's a very useful, you know, uh, tactic tactic.
Speaker 1:Yeah well, you know it's. It's a great diffusing tool, because you're trying to get me to say something that I'm not going to say. So let me tell you a story. And then I did it's more it's.
Speaker 4:It's like um, you, I'm not going to argue with you, but I'm going to say it in a way that you can't argue with me. Yes, right, yeah.
Speaker 1:Right. So I had somebody—this jumps off of topic just slightly—but I had somebody reach out to me and they say Okay, so I'm doing my daily reading and it talks about God separating the seas of the heavens from the seas of the earth and how he's created the earth. And all of this time they said where did God come from? Which is like the ultimate question right Now.
Speaker 1:This is a text message and my response is it is not something that I can answer in a text message, but think of it this way Imagine your life, my life and the world like a book. Right, it's hard for us to comprehend. If you read a book and you really love that book, it's hard for you to comprehend anything before that book or anything past the end of that book, because it has a beginning and an end, a definitive beginning and a definitive end, unless the author writes a prequel, unless the author writes a sequel, there is no beginning or anything before that beginning or anything past that end. But there is something past the beginning and the end of that book and that is the life of the author, the story of the author. The author has a life that they live, they are living and breathing and doing something, but you can't comprehend it because all you get is a snapshot inside of the pages of that book.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:And they were like okay, all right, but because I'm not going to debate it, I'm not going to argue how God existed, because I don't know.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 1:But I can tell you that. Well no one knows Exactly. That's what I'm saying. But if you can prove to me that he didn't, okay, let's have a conversation. You can prove to me that he didn't, okay, let's have a conversation. But no Big Bang Theory is ever going to convince me, because explain to me how the Earth sits perfectly on its axis at just such a place that we don't all spin off, that nothing falls like, the water stays on.
Speaker 3:It's really hard to explain all of that away, I mean even the tidal waves, based on how the axis is on certain seasons, like you just like. How does this all line up?
Speaker 1:well, the fact that the tide knows to rise and set to, to rise and fall, with the, the rising and the setting of the sun and the moon, that's divine creation. Yeah, think of all of the creatures that exist and the reasons that they exist. That is divine creation. Now, I am obsessed with Noah right now because of our reading. Did you read my little?
Speaker 1:thing, Like wicked obsessed with Noah right now, because I'm going to see if I can find that real quick. So I read the young adults of the church have a Bible study that we're doing together. It's basically a Bible 365. So you try to get the whole Bible in a year, but yesterday we were in Genesis 4, 5, and 6. And so here's what I wrote as I finished reading Nope, that's not it, it was day. Was it day three or was it day one?
Speaker 3:Today's day three. Yeah, what day was it? It wasn't day one. That was your TED talk.
Speaker 1:Oh, yes, it was. Oh, it was no day two. I'm sorry, it was day two.
Speaker 1:I thought that it was great that we, in this particular passage it said the sons of God saw beautiful women and took them as they wanted, as their wives. Then the Lord said my spirit will not put up with humans for such a long, and I was like love that right, because it helps to explain why Noah lived for 500 years, but not everybody. We don't do that now. But here's what I was thinking God knew creation had gone wicked and he committed to making it right by flooding the world. But Noah found favor. So even in my wickedness, I'm praying to find favor with God that I might be spared from the extermination of evil in this world, and I'm praying for each of us to find a way forward that is closer to Christ and further from the world. Think about that in the terms of then Jesus coming right.
Speaker 1:So Noah found favor with God. And to find favor with God, it even says that he was the only blameless man on earth. He still spared his family, while they may have been blameless, because Noah was the only blameless, so by proxy they got to be saved. So we get through all of the Old Testament we get through the birth, the life of the death and the resurrection of Jesus so that we might have everlasting life. But we don't find favor in the physical, we don't find favor in what we do. We find favor to God through what Jesus did on the cross. That's mind blowing to think that it's really so simple. It is really so, very simple. I heard somebody say that God is not waiting for for a perfect church to return. He's waiting for the church to desire his return Because I think, speaking about a majority, the church does not want Jesus to return, right, because when he does, there's going to be some level of accountability.
Speaker 4:And maybe a lot to lose. Yes, and because you, I've done all of the things, but Lord, I've prophesied in your name, lord, a lot to lose.
Speaker 1:Yes, and because you, I've done all of the things. But, lord, I've prophesied in your name, lord, I've prayed in your name. Lord, I've cast out demons in your name. Depart from me, for I never knew you. And you look at him and you say, say what? But I just told you I did all of those things in your name. And right, you did all of those things so that you would get your way.
Speaker 2:Yeah, you said my name. Yes, you did all of those things, but I never knew you because you were never, in relationship with me?
Speaker 1:yep, then we can get into a whole thing about prophecy and casting out demons and a whole nother. There are people who are not correct. I don't want to say it that way. That sounds terrible. And you know, touch not mineointed People who operate in those giftings, who don't know how to operate strictly in their lane.
Speaker 1:Okay, so the prophetic typically does not bring correction that's usually the apostolic and there are lanes that everybody stays in. But you will meet people who operate in the prophetic who think that they can bring correction, and what they do is they create chaos because now they've set a fire that somebody else has to extinguish, and it happens all the time. I mean, I would guess that if you go to Kenneth Copeland's Sunday service and they're bringing people up on stage and he starts praying for people, then they go back to their home church because most of those people aren't planted there. They're there to visit because it's Kenneth Copeland. They go back to their church and they say well, you know, kenneth told me he said this or he spoke this and he spoke that. The problem is, is he's trying to get you to open your checkbook?
Speaker 3:Right, right.
Speaker 1:Your pastor is trying to get you to open your checkbook. Right, right, right. Your pastor is trying to get you into heaven. There is a difference, and I don't blame mega churches for their because they need to operate Right, but I do say that when it's become a business and it's more about operations than it is about salvations, you've definitely got a disconnect in what ministry actually means.
Speaker 4:Yeah, absolutely.
Speaker 1:It has to be looked at from a business standpoint, because you have to be able to pay the bills, keep the building open, yeah. But I would say this if you were genuinely worried about money like if you were like we're going to give away half of everything that we make, you wouldn't have a private jet, you wouldn't have a multi-billion dollar building. You know what I mean. You wouldn to do stadium tours around the United States and sell them out. You're not worried about salvation, you're worried about a business model, a financial standpoint. I heard that Hillsong Church has their own record label. They produce, they write, produce all of their own music. That's mind-blowing. That is mind-blowing to me.
Speaker 3:Isn't it Elevation, I think.
Speaker 1:Elevation also does.
Speaker 3:They have their own. It's two separate. Yes.
Speaker 1:Yes, and they may have combined at some point. I don't know. But it's wild to me to think, though, that there is this existence of churches that are so big that they can really run separate businesses on the side, and those businesses support the church right. So I've always said here if we could afford to build storage buildings out on that little piece of land we have up by the road, we would 100% do it Build the buildings, rent the buildings. That money then supports the church and I no longer need your money. Any money that comes in then gets to be turned around and spent back in the community Doesn't mean you still shouldn't tithe Right?
Speaker 3:no, but it would be more of a pillow.
Speaker 1:That money now gets spent in missions and gets to go back to the community versus operating a building. Okay, sorry, we got off topic for a second. What else we got, nick? You got any more markers over there?
Speaker 4:Well you were talking about. Well, you were talking about. Well, we were talking about Annas and what Jesus Annas was. I think he was the high priest before Caiaphas, but he's still operating.
Speaker 4:And of course, jesus is taken to Annas first before he's taken to Caiaphas. And Annas is questioning him about his disciples and about his teachings and Jesus has to say he says I have spoke openly to the world. He says I always taught in synagogues or at the temple where all the Jews together. I said nothing in secret, so why question me? Ask all those who heard me. Surely they know what I said. If I said something wrong, testify as to what is wrong. But if I spoke the truth, why did you strike me? And at that, annas has nothing to say and sends him on to caiaphas.
Speaker 4:So again, you know jesus is, you know he's. He's giving them the opportunity to you know, um, he's giving them the opportunity to convict him and yet a lot of times he leaves them speechless, which I think is for me. That's just one of the great parts of that whole crucifixion story is his heart posture, the way that he handles that. Situation is to me, situation is to me. I'm sure that when he comes into Jerusalem. He's already aware that, yeah, there's going to be a small group that actually believes in what I'm going to do, and the rest of you, you know, are just out for you know your own personal gain, you know for you know your own personal gain, you know?
Speaker 4:And yet he's telling Ann it's like look, you know, you can ask any one of these people, you don't have to ask me. You can ask them what I've taught you know and they'll tell you, you know. And he's giving them the opportunity to say, okay, what is it that I have actually said in my teachings? Not that I'm saying, I'm not even saying I'm the Messiah.
Speaker 2:Right.
Speaker 4:I'm not saying anything. I'm just saying anything that I've taught. What can you say? That you know, has has been wrong.
Speaker 1:It's contrary to the word of God, contrary to the to the word or the law or the prophecy or any of those.
Speaker 4:Yeah, so he's not going in there making promises you can't keep.
Speaker 1:He's not going in showboating yeah, he's not walking in, just zapping out miracles, which is kind of crazy.
Speaker 3:It's crazy that he's going in like calm, cool and collective because, when he was on Mount Olive.
Speaker 4:Well, he's not there yet, right Mount?
Speaker 2:Olive is afterwards right.
Speaker 1:Yes.
Speaker 4:So he hasn't gone there yet, but still so. Olivis afterwards, right, yes, after.
Speaker 1:So he hasn't gone there yet, but he but still so he's calm, cool and collected but, then he does get that anxiety and the flesh starts to build up, but I mean still all calm so when we talk about, when we get to this point of the of the crucifixion, I really get wrapped up in the garden of gethsemane.
Speaker 4:Yeah, me too that's one of my favorite parts. But I do want to mention, too, what he says. He tells them in almost another parable that I'm going to be lifted up and take all men upon me. And when he says lifted up, even it took me a long time to be like well, what's he mean? Like going into heaven, I thought.
Speaker 4:well, no, I think he means when he's being lifted up is when he's being put on the cross you got it Taking the sins of all man upon him, and so he tells them that and it's almost like they don't get it he's trying to tell them exactly what's going to take place without just coming right out.
Speaker 1:He doesn't ever look at them and say, listen, they're going to whip me until I'm bleeding, right yeah they're gonna run some spikes through my hands and my feet. I'm gonna hang there in complete embarrassment and I need you to be okay with it and I think, since he spoke in so many parables for the longest time, like leading up to it.
Speaker 3:They didn't realize right the more blunt things that he was trying to say. You know what I mean.
Speaker 4:Like yeah but I think again, I think he almost did that on purpose, like oh yeah, you know. I don't want to. I don't want them going into this with fear. Yes, and and actually trying to imagine all of these things, or stop it, or stop yeah, or stop it, because that's.
Speaker 2:And.
Speaker 1:Peter cuts off the one soldier's ear and Jesus tells him put down your sword, puts the ear back on. Weird to me, but in that moment that Roman soldier who knows he's about to arrest Jesus is like we are not doing the right thing right now, this is not what we should be doing. And then you think about when he's on the cross and he says it is finished. Darkness covers the earth, the earth shakes, it trembles, it quakes. The veil in the tabernacle is torn from top to bottom and all of the Roman soldiers standing on that hill realize holy crap.
Speaker 4:We've just messed up and he told him the temple would be destroyed. We've thrown lots for his clothes. We've just messed up and he told him the temple would be destroyed.
Speaker 1:We've thrown lots for his clothes, we've bartered to get his belongings, we've embarrassed him, we've done all of these things. There is no hope, yeah.
Speaker 2:No, coming back from this one, boys, yeah, right.
Speaker 1:Right, okay, so just another little fun thing um, are you guys I'm sure that you are, but probably not all of them that you could recite off the top of your head and I had to, like pull them up in front of me just to know? So there, god was referred to in a lot of ways, so yahweh, and that was it was supposed to, or so people will tell you it was the sound of an inhale and an exhale in Jewish culture, so it wasn't really a name as much as it was a sound. Okay, or Jehovah, and then you can go through all of the Jehovah's. You've got Jehovah. Jireh, the Lord, who will provide.
Speaker 1:Now there's my favorite part about that is everybody's like Jireh, you are enough, but they don't actually know what it means. Right, they know the word, but they don't know what it means. Jehovah Ra, the Lord, is my shepherd. Jehovah Shalom, the Lord, is peace. Jehovah Nisi, the Lord, is my banner. Jehovah Rapha, the Lord who heals. I can't even say this one. It's Jehovah T-S-I-D-K-E-N-U, so I don't even know how to say that one. It's for you.
Speaker 1:It sounds like a sneeze. The Lord, our righteousness, adonai, lord, master, el Elone, the most high God, el Shaddai, god Almighty, is anybody remember that song? El Shaddai, el Shaddai, old one. And Elohim is gods, the plural referring to the Trinity, the Holy Trinity. So I think it's fascinating that we have all of these names for God and, honestly, we have a lot of names for Jesus, I am. You know. We could go through that list all day long, list all day long.
Speaker 3:But we have, so, in the Easter season, landed on Hosanna, and I blame worship music Me too, and I don't know like I've been listening to worship music a lot more recently and like the older songs I'm like, oh my gosh, this is scripture.
Speaker 1:It's scripture based.
Speaker 1:This is scripture Exactly If you listen to some of the OG worship music 90s and earlier, you will find that they are quoting scripture word for word, which is what you were supposed to do. Now we've got rattle, rattle and I get that we're talking about the dry bones of Ezekiel, but Ezekiel's name's never mentioned Exactly, and it's more about creating excitement. The music is more about creating excitement, and so when I break out 90s stuff and people are like, oh my gosh, this song again. There's a reason. There is a reason because it is scripturally based and I've said from the pulpit before we get wrapped up in worship music and you guys can sing every word to you know, this is how I fight my battles or you know whatever way maker, but you couldn't quote scripture because we don't spend our time in the word, we spend our time in worship music.
Speaker 1:And we think it's the same thing. But the music doesn't reflect the word anymore.
Speaker 3:Yes.
Speaker 1:That's why we should write our own music.
Speaker 3:Have our own record label. Yes, we our own music, have our own record label.
Speaker 1:We're going to record right here in the podcast studio no, we'll record in the storage in the storage unit. Yeah, we're going to. We'll just turn one of the storage units that we build into a recording studio.
Speaker 3:I'm proclaiming that right now we don't have storage units there my wife will kill you.
Speaker 1:She didn't want nothing to do with that.
Speaker 4:So when Jesus is, after he's questioned by Annas, you know, they send him to Caiaphas. And here's the point where Jesus will I think it's at this point he pretty much knows like at this point, like, okay, everything is set in motion.
Speaker 2:So I can you?
Speaker 4:know everything is set in motion, so I can, you know, can make a statement. You know he's, he's with Caius, they're in the temple and they have people start giving false testimony against him and they were like.
Speaker 4:we heard him say I will destroy this man-made temple in three days and we'll build another not made by man. So of course, caiaphas says are you not going to answer? What is this testimony that these men are bringing against you? But again, jesus remained silent and gave no answer. So Caiaphas again asks him are you the Christ, the Son of the Blessed One? So the Caiaphas again asks him are you the Christ, the son of the blessed one? It's at this point that Jesus says I am, and you will see the son of man sitting at the right hand of the mighty one and coming on the clouds of heaven. It's at that point that.
Speaker 4:Caiaphas rips his cloth, and that's pretty much when they okay, it's time to send him to Pilate. So I think you know, but I think it's at that. You know he for the longest time. I love the fact that, again, like he's silent and just, you know, um, there's just something about that to me. That's just, I love that, but he knows when it's finally time to be like okay, I know this yeah everything's set in motion.
Speaker 3:This is you know this is the time for me to yeah. Yes, I can make my mission statement now.
Speaker 4:Yeah, yeah so, yeah, I think that's a cool moment too, um and true.
Speaker 3:I mean I'm just thinking back with like the whole easter is our super bowl thing, but like like, yes, the actual services, but like also the whole thing about it too is like us talking about this right now Like I think the most exciting and just like any time we're talking about the Easter week or anything like there's so much emotion to it. You know what I mean Like it's not just a Super Bowl because of the Easter service but, it's just because of everything going on with it.
Speaker 1:So I look at it as the service that our church has to be on its best, because we're going to see a lot of visitors that day. You're going to see people who have never been to a church before, or people who only come once a year or twice a year. So we want to be on our best behavior, and what I mean by that is I want to make sure that we're primed and ready to go, that our tech is solid and that our team is able to speak to one another and like we're just. It's a good flow through the service, but it's not just because there are going to be people, but the message that's going to be preached that day is the gospel that will save lives.
Speaker 1:And that's the important part. So we're going to have potentially unchurched people sitting in our building on Sunday morning and we need them to be able to, uninterrupted, hear the gospel of Jesus Christ, yes, to hear a salvation message, to hear that they are worthy of being saved just like every other person sitting in this building.
Speaker 4:And people who are saved or think they're saved. I always feel that I don't care how many times you've heard the story, yep, I don't care how many times you've watched the movie. You need to watch it one more time. You need to soak it all in. You know, you really need to see and understand exactly what he went through Because, again, you know if you're trying to bring Jesus into people's lives and on paper you say, yep, he died on the cross for you.
Speaker 1:We're like okay, well, the Easter story that we read to the kids during the Easter egg hunt is incredibly watered down, for obvious reasons. Right, they drove spikes through his hands and he was bleeding out of his eyeballs. Have spiked through his hands and he was bleeding out of his eyeballs and like, obviously we're not telling a gory story, but we're planting a seed that allows them then to understand okay, jesus died for my sins. Jesus died so that I would have everlasting life, so long as I accept him as my Lord and Savior.
Speaker 4:And not only that he died for him, but that he took them all on yes. Not only the physical pain that he was going through that whole situation, but actually taking on the sins of every living human being for all time. Think about that. Just think about your own sins and how you feel about them and how it convicts you and how it makes you feel. Now put every single person's burdens on yourself. I mean imagine that.
Speaker 3:And then, of course, he separated from his father in that moment, which was the worst of all of all the things that he experienced.
Speaker 4:So I just think it's just so important that we, you know, take, you know, this week, you know, don't, don't, just don't, let it pass by. You know, I know we've all heard the story, but you know, you just really need to be, um, I don't care if it's in church or wherever, wherever you feel you need to do that. I just think it's so important that you really do reflect on what he's done, what he's done for your life. That's right.
Speaker 1:So to explain that a little bit. So we talk about when you sin, you willingly separate yourself from the will of God. So Jesus, hanging on the cross, taking on the sin of the world, has now separated himself from God which is the proclamation that he makes. Why have you forsaken me? Because he is feeling left vulnerable, but it's because he has taken on the sins of the world, every sin that exists in the world. He took upon himself in that moment.
Speaker 4:And some people say that was taken right from the Psalm.
Speaker 1:It is, it is, it is. As a matter of fact, it's Psalm 22.
Speaker 4:Yeah.
Speaker 1:That's a heavy topic to get people to fully understand. You know, we're talking about a God who saves. We're talking about a God who saves. We're talking about the phrase Hosanna, the name Hosanna, but people, I think oftentimes they hear the story and they don't really get the context for what's happening in the moment. He's hanging on a cross and he says why have you forsaken me? Oh, he's probably saying that because he's not really the Messiah and he's asking God why are you allowing me to die this terrible?
Speaker 4:death. Yeah, he's almost regretting.
Speaker 1:Right, regretting his decision. That is not what's happening in that moment. What's happening in that moment is he is really genuinely doing all of the things he promised that he would do so that you won't have to live that life. And then what happens? We choose to live that life. We walk into the world, willing participants to the sins of the world yep, but he knows that.
Speaker 4:That's the thing, though that's why he does it, because he knows going in that's what we're going to do. Yep, otherwise there's no need what's the point?
Speaker 3:yeah, what's the point? He knows that.
Speaker 4:So if he knows that, that's the love of how much love he has for us.
Speaker 3:He knows, then why do you ask why? Why have you forsaken me? Well, he knows that that's the love of how much love he has for us. He knows, then why do you ask why have you forsaken me?
Speaker 1:He says that because he has separated himself from God. He knows what he's doing, but it fulfills prophecy in Psalms 22.
Speaker 4:Because think about it, he never sins. So he never knows the separation from God he experiences everything else a human can except for that one thing, but finally, in that moment, he does experience it, but he's experiencing not just what would have been maybe one person's sins, but all people for all time.
Speaker 1:So it's in those moments that, yeah, he is separated and basically again fulfilling the prophecy in Psalm 22, which is, again, I'm going to paraphrase it's suffering, but in the end it's hope and trust in God. So when he's why have you forsaken me? It's a like I've separated myself, it's a lament. It's him saying you know, I'm experiencing this pain and suffering, but it's trust in God to do what God has promised he would do.
Speaker 4:God to do what God has promised he would do, and the Bible has plenty of examples of suffering being one of the greatest exercises of your faith, of going through that suffering and getting to that point of salvation and trust in God. So, yeah, it's really heavy.
Speaker 3:I think there's a lot of those examples that you were just talking about that reflect from Old Testament to New Testament.
Speaker 4:Yeah, certainly.
Speaker 3:And a lot of people don't understand that either.
Speaker 4:Right, well, yeah, he just don't come riding in on a donkey because he thought oh, this would be cool, Right?
Speaker 1:Yeah, you know and part of my message on Sunday was Jesus, and I said he could have come into Jerusalem on the back of a unicorn if he wanted to, because if Jesus wanted a unicorn, he make himself a unicorn, right? He didn't come in on a black stallion ready for war. He came in on a donkey humbled not just any donkey, a colt Humble prepared for the fate that existed for him. He wanted everybody to know that when he arrived he wasn't there to fight. I'm not here to pick a fight. I'm here to let God do what God is going to do.
Speaker 4:And you can dig and, dig and dig. You'll never find him doing anything out of prophecy, anything, nope.
Speaker 2:Yes.
Speaker 4:Everything that he is doing.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Every action that he takes, everything, every, every step you take, it's all to fulfill prophecy. He didn't, and it says the word says he did not come to to abolish the law, but to fulfill. And so to fulfill the prophecy was to fulfill the law, it's to say, the things that the old Testament has taught us have been fulfilled. I am the, the sacrificial lamb. When I die, there is no need for sacrificing animals. There is no need for sacrificing, you know, burnt offerings. There's no need for any of those things anymore, because it has been finished through me.
Speaker 3:So, like I know someone who's still, Well, they're wrong. And I'm like practices, the Old Testament.
Speaker 1:They're wrong. And I'm like no, here's the thing. Those are guideposts for your life. You should believe in the, the 10 commandment.
Speaker 3:It's not like we erased the whole correct.
Speaker 1:He didn't come to abolish, he came to fulfill. So I should still be. I I'm not gonna, not gonna covet, I'm not gonna murder, I'm not gonna those things. But I'm not going to do those things because I want to live in the will of God and I'm going to do that by having a relationship with Jesus. So I am going to sin and fall short of the glory of God. Now, are there extremes in that If you murder somebody, you have fallen short of the glory of God? It is just as easy for a murderer to be saved as it is for somebody who is a raging alcoholic to be saved right it it or not?
Speaker 1:yeah, it's hard to comprehend, but no sin is greater than any other sin. The Bible tells us that sin is all equal.
Speaker 4:And the Old Testament is the hard left hand of.
Speaker 2:God yes.
Speaker 4:And the New Testament is the soft right hand.
Speaker 1:Well, because you have Jesus sitting there interceding.
Speaker 4:At this point, jesus is living out the pain and the suffering, and he's never saying oh, you can forget all about that, I'm here to create a whole new Right. No, he's never.
Speaker 3:Says that yeah.
Speaker 4:He's coming to fulfill God's word, but he's asking people. As I've said on this podcast before, up until this time, the world is a really cruel place with a lot of cruel ideas, and nobody's talking about this stuff.
Speaker 3:That's what I was going to say. I don't think people understand that either, but before this.
Speaker 4:Nobody's talking about love and loving your enemies, turning the other cheek, all of those things.
Speaker 1:Well, no, they're crucifying people, for the love of Pete.
Speaker 4:They do this for fun. That's their Super Bowl Taking three people up and honestly it's a hobby.
Speaker 1:They hang a sign in the town square that we're crucifying three people on friday. Come on out check it out.
Speaker 4:They get bored. Yes, with the with the exercise. So they start hanging them upside down and other you know. Yeah, things just well they're bored with.
Speaker 1:It's the same with breaking their legs and the the spear in the sides like, oh well, we're bored now, so we got to speed this up, let's's, let's get along.
Speaker 2:We're going to be late for dinner, yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah, he ain't dying. What's going on? Let's do something to to speed that. And you know, like the breaking of the legs, all of those things had in, there were reasons behind it, there was intention behind it. So if somebody was surviving for too long on the cross, when they broke their legs, it dropped their body and so it was harder for them to breathe. They didn't get that opportunity with Jesus. They never broke a bone and prophecy said that he would basically leave unscathed.
Speaker 4:Here's the parable of the wicked tenants, and I was talking about this a little bit ago. It says A man planted a vineyard. He rented the vineyard to some farmers and went away on a journey At harvest time. He sent a servant to the tenants to collect from them some of the fruit of the vineyard. But they seized him, beat him and sent him away empty-handed. Then he sent another servant to them. They struck this man on the head and treated him shamefully. He sent still another, and that one they killed. He sent many others, some of them they beat, others they killed. He had one left to send a son whom he loved. He sent him last of all, saying they will respect my son.
Speaker 4:But the tenants said to one another this is the heir, come, let's kill him and the inheritance will be ours. So they took him and killed him and threw him out of the vineyard. What then will the owner of the vineyard do? He will come and kill those tenants and give the vineyard to others. Do he will come and kill those tenants and give the vineyard to others? Haven't you read this scripture? The stone the builders rejected has become the capstone. The Lord has done this and it is marvelous in our eyes. So there he's, talking about all the people who came before him and what the world has done to them.
Speaker 1:And certainly when the sun comes, the world will accept him and what the world has done to them. And certainly when the son comes, the world will accept him and, alas, they still can't get it.
Speaker 4:They don't accept him.
Speaker 1:Yep, and we're living in a world, still today, that doesn't accept him for who he is and what he's done. Yep A world who wants to be negative about him. And you know, I wake up in the morning and I'm doing things and I'm like, you know, every day I walk, this walk and every day I have these. I'm constantly meditating and praying about something and doing my thing and I'm like man. What if this is all for naught? Like what if? And then I think to myself, what if it's not? What if?
Speaker 4:what I'm just always thankful, with all the things that I have to deal with in life, to struggle in life with that there's always something, there's always some part of his word uh-huh yeah that is there to help me, yeah, through that, yep, and I can't imagine a life without that. So for me, it's like I don't even like question like, oh my God, what if I'm right? What if I'm wrong?
Speaker 4:I don't have to question it, because I realize I'm not perfect. I make plenty of mistakes. I've done, you know I've done plenty of things wrong in my life. There's plenty of, probably, things that I would do over again. Maybe not do over again, but I could. You know, I recognize my faults, my sin, but I cannot imagine not having his grace and mercy in my life to help me overcome those things and to keep moving forward. And that alone is enough to be like, yeah, I'm buying into this because I I can feel it in my heart and the things that I do, that I know it doesn't matter how many times I mess up, it doesn't matter how many times, you know, I have to go back and and confess my sins to him. It's like it feels right. Well, it it, it works.
Speaker 3:Like, not to mention, like we are so fortunate in today's society not even the digital thing, but like there were people before us that couldn't read you know you have to have someone read the Bible for them or you know. So there's that. And then there's we. I mean you can get on chat GBT and ask them hey, I'm struggling with my faith because of blank. Give me something to study and, you know, meditate on. You don't even have to do chat GBT, you can look in your glossary.
Speaker 4:People don't realize how fortunate we are and that's a great thing All those people that came into Jerusalem to listen to people in the temple and listen to the high priest. They can't learn for themselves A lot of them probably couldn't read.
Speaker 1:Honestly, it still exists today In Amish culture. While they can read the Bible, when they go to church, the message is typically preached in German. Most of them don't know what's being preached, so they go to church every other week. Really to go to church, because they get up and they sing but they don't sing like we sing. It's kind of more like chants than it is singing. And then they sit there on those backless benches and listen to somebody, sometimes for three hours basically read scripture in German and they don't know what they're saying.
Speaker 1:So, then they have to have a church after church to talk with everyone like what's that all about? So the young adults and I don't know what that age group is, but they usually have gospel sings just as a group and they sing contemporary worship music or contemporary or even hymns, but something that then they can relate to and connect to, and then they kind of have their own like this is our time together, because we didn't get anything from Sunday morning.
Speaker 3:Well, yeah, that's crazy.
Speaker 1:No, what else is crazy? My kids have a thing. If you say the word crazy or massive in our house, they'll say you know what else is crazy, or do you know what else is massive? And then they'll go low. Taper fade. It's apparently an internet meme. I don't get it. I don't pretend to get it, but they do it a lot.
Speaker 4:The new one is chicken jockey I've just heard from the minecraft the other day and I have no idea what yeah it's from the minecraft movie michael, back to what you were saying.
Speaker 3:With the things that you're, you know, I do everything day after day. Pay attention.
Speaker 1:And you know like what, if I'm doing all this, yeah, like I get into those rhythms every now and then but then he sends me I mean, I'm talking within hours, or a day or two, he sends me something where I'm like okay, that could have only been Mine is not really so much that Like mine's, like I'm doing the dishes and I'm just thinking to myself as I do all of these things and I tell all of these people about Jesus, and I act a certain way and I try to do my best to counsel and love. And there's a situation right now in my life where I have to stand impartial between two people that I love desperately but I'm forced to stand impartial between them. That impartial between two people that I love desperately but I'm forced to stand impartial between them. That is difficult, right, because I want to be able to be emotional with both of them and say I get you, I feel you, I understand and I see what you're saying, but as a pastor I cannot do that. So I have to stand there and be factual and say scripture says, scripture says, scripture says. Which makes me feel robotic and I think about all of those things and I'm like and I think about all of those things and I'm like what if all of this is for not? And I say that to myself in this way like am I going to regret not having been there for that person? Am I going to regret? And I'll just give you a, for instance and I won't share a whole lot of it, but I was connected with a gentleman who was not well mentally.
Speaker 1:He had separated from his wife, there were some domestic situations and, uh, he had reached out several times. I talked to him regularly on text, called a couple of times, spent a little bit of time in person with him Not a lot of that, um, but he was very not well mentally. It was very unwell. And, um, he had sent me a Facebook message and had asked for money to help pay for a hotel room. I did not get said message. I was already in bed. The next morning I found out that he had killed himself.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Is it all for naught? Yeah, do you know what I mean? Like, am I missing something? Is there something that I'm not doing, that I should be doing? Am I doing all of this? But I'm going to get there and he's going to say Lord, I prophesied in your name, lord, I prayed in your name, Lord, I brought people to you and he's going to say depart from me, for I never knew you because I missed something that I should have been doing.
Speaker 1:Is this all for not? Am I living this life to get there and find out that I'm not going to make it? And you can't live in that, because if you live in that, you're going to live in this constant state of fear, and I don't want to be that way. But I know inside of me there are things that happen and I things that I experience, and I'll give you another one. This is a really like. This is a hard one for me. Um, I have a, a dear friend, who regularly gets upset with the church Not our church, but the church in general. They don't feel like they're welcome, they don't feel like they're included, they don't feel like this, they don't feel like that. And I still have to be the face of Jesus. I still have to be the hands and feet of Jesus with that person, even though I know what they think about me because I'm part of the church yeah.
Speaker 1:Do you know how hard that is to like? Show Jesus and send a text and say, hey, I love you, I miss you, or hey, give me a call when you have time, and then like, chat with them, like I, I know what's wrong, but I can't say what's wrong. Does that make sense?
Speaker 3:Yes, yes.
Speaker 1:That is the worst feeling in the world folks is the worst feeling in the world. Folks, you need to get good at parables. Yes, maybe that's it. Maybe that's it. Can you imagine if I started doing that to people? They'd be? What is this guy talking about? Why is he always telling weird stories?
Speaker 4:it is weird, it's really bizarre but sometimes, like when you tell somebody something straightforward, it shuts them down. Yes, yeah, it shuts them down, whereas if you try to say something that makes them think, then it the you know you allow them to do the work, whereas if you try to say something that makes them think, then the you know you allow them to do the work, instead of you trying to do the work of hammering this idea yeah, into their brain I have learned, though, that there are some people that you have to be direct with oh yeah and I was talking to um susan bosh, who is technically my supervisor, but that's a whole like you use that term, but it's not like she can fire me.
Speaker 1:You know what I mean.
Speaker 3:She was the one that was the the Browns.
Speaker 1:Yes, she talked about the Browns and her message. The Sunday that she was here with us, we um. I was talking to her and she said you know, sometimes, pastor Michael, you have to be the one that's direct, because your congregation, the people that you pastor, go to other people looking for just—I don't want to use the word recognition—agreement. They go there looking for somebody to be in agreement with them, and so they are expecting you to be in agreement with them, and when you know that you can't be, it is your responsibility to tell them. And sometimes you have to be direct, because they don't understand when you're not.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:Especially when it's very emotional.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Like, listen, we've got to stop the emotion for a second. We've got to talk logical. Now I can be emotional with you and I can cry with you and pray with you and do all of the things, but for a second I need you to be logical.
Speaker 4:It's like dealing with young people at work and being in management making decisions. You got these young people and there's just a lot of things they don't get. Sure, they just don't. But my tactic is usually is I want them to understand that they're a part of the team. I want them to feel like they're important to what we do, why we do it, and I understand that. You know I want them to grow and so I try to be a positive motivator to get them to where I want them to be. But sometimes you're right. Like you know, I have one that I'm flying 20,000 pounds of steel over his head.
Speaker 4:He's supposed to be spotting the load and he's got his head down in his cell phone. And it's at that point I'm like okay, at this point I need to be straightforward.
Speaker 2:Like I do not want to see you on your cell phone in the shop.
Speaker 4:And of course I'm giving him like number one it's your personal safety. I'm flying 20,000 pounds over your head If that would give for some reason and if I kill you, I can't live with myself yeah yeah, you know, I'm like it's loud in here there's a lot of distractions. If you're on your phone, you turn around, trip over something and pale yourself on a piece of steel?
Speaker 4:no good yeah so, yeah, you're right, sometimes you just you run out of patience, patience or just positive motivation that you think is going to sink into their heads, and sometimes the only thing left is is a direct I don't want to say that the grace runs out.
Speaker 1:I was going to say I don't think that nothing it's not about the grace running out, but it is about my ability to give you grace because I'm not getting through.
Speaker 3:Yeah, you have to realize I have to pivot in a way, because the way that I'm communicating right now and connecting with them right now isn't working. Harry says it best.
Speaker 1:You can lead a horse to water, but sometimes they're too stupid to know they're thirsty. So I can give you positive reinforcement, I can give you positive encouragement a hundred times, but if you're too dumb to know that you're thirsty and you can't comprehend that positive reinforcement, now I've got to be very real with you and tell you you're being stupid, you're being mean. The things that you're saying are not true. Whatever, in order to get to where we need to be, Yep, and I still don't mean.
Speaker 4:you have to raise your voice.
Speaker 1:No, I don't have to yell, I don't have to throw anything.
Speaker 4:You're self-controlled. Like you said, you have to be direct.
Speaker 1:I did that today with somebody. I had a situation where, um, I was made aware that something I had said to somebody in confidence was taken back to somebody else and the information was shared, but it was not shared accurately, it was slightly slightly misconstrued telephone slightly misconstrued and and I don't think on the person that I was talking to.
Speaker 1:I don't think it was misconstrued there. I think the other person heard it, their heart. And then they they took it and said why would somebody say something like that about me or a friend or a whatever? And so I called the person and I said hey, listen, we need to have a very direct conversation. I love you, but I need you to know that if you did this, it is not okay. They explained the situation. I'm like I'm good, are you good? Yes, we're good. Okay, great, yeah, I don't ever want to talk about it again, yeah, and I said just know that I want to be able to trust you, but if that happens, trust is not something that can come easily yeah when it's been broken that situation is like on tom and jerry, where jerry puts the bike pump hose in tom's mouth and starts pumping up and tom's head starts swelling up real big.
Speaker 4:That's like when you know people hear something and they get upset and they turn it into something completely different and they get in their own head. The head gets bigger and bigger.
Speaker 1:The emotion in those situations is what's hard? Because you can't possibly comprehend the emotion that people are feeling when they hear certain things and this is another topic of conversation for a whole other. Well, we'll make it another week.
Speaker 3:We we'll save that gossip, yeah oh yeah we need to talk about that and what it is and how it works yes, I'd love that because I have a something that it was basically someone was just a series of unfortunate events that was happening and she just assumed everything yes, assumed that I was a part of it. And I mean, she wrote me a book and I said whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa.
Speaker 1:I had to read the whole thing before I know you're off base, can you?
Speaker 3:please call me because there are lots of things I need to clear up, but it was just people getting their own head.
Speaker 4:We're all guilty of it. And the thing about gossip is it makes you feel good.
Speaker 1:It makes you feel good. Good, yes, important Bingo yes, that's done. Yeah, it does, yeah, and it just does.
Speaker 1:I why, it's so easy to do it because if you're with three or four people and but here's the thing, and I said this about men a while ago and I'll say it again you know, roger and I just raz each other all the time when we're in the same room together and then when he leaves, I'm like that is the nicest man you'll ever meet, right, like he is the greatest man in the world, like I, absolutely love him.
Speaker 3:He takes my crap yeah.
Speaker 1:Right, right. And so, like that's how we tend to operate and we show because we don't, we don't say I love you, we're not emotional beings by nature, so we beat each other up in person and then we're like yeah, he's a pretty cool guy.
Speaker 3:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:So there's a difference there, but unfortunately gossip. On the other hand, and just to explain that, roger and I are sitting here arguing back and forth, like today, roger, he knew what size a bolt was in the ceiling without having ever seen it. He never saw the bolt. He said it's a half inch. I said there's no way, that's too small. He says I'm telling you it's a half inch. I go up there with three sizes and guess what it's a half inch. I go up there with three sizes and guess what it's a half inch. And as I come down off the lift.
Speaker 1:Stomping. No, I said you know, roger, I like what I say to you, I appreciate how smart you are, or something like that. Everybody in the room stops and says what? Because the perception is that Roger and I always fight and it's like everybody knows that it's a joke. But when they hear those things they're like wait a second.
Speaker 3:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:Roger does get it right. Yes, so there's this, like it's very easy for somebody who wouldn't know us to walk into that room and walk out and go. Those two are terrible.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:They're awful to each other. They are mean people and not true at all, but it would be. So, yeah, that was fun. I like that topic. That was a good one. That feels like there was some life reinvigorated in the podcast for me yeah yeah, we had some fun banter at first, but yeah, I really.
Speaker 4:I like when I have things to dig into.
Speaker 1:Yeah study on yeah, kind of get behind the curtain a little bit, so to speak until the veil is torn, and then there's no need to be behind the curtain. Yeah, well, and the crazy thing is, you know, caiaphas didn't stop there even after he's, but so to speak until the veil is torn. Then there's no, need to be behind the curtain.
Speaker 4:Yeah Well, and the crazy thing is, you know, Caiaphas didn't stop there. Even after he's seen everything that he's seen that day, he still tried to stop.
Speaker 3:Yeah, oh, yeah, yeah yeah.
Speaker 4:From you know it was so he never, he never learned. Well, this, but they say in 1990 they found a tomb in jerusalem and they found his remains who's? Caiphus, oh, and they say he is the. They claim he's the only physical archaeological find of a human being that existed in the bible oh, how did they know it was him?
Speaker 4:uh, dna, there were some inscriptions on, uh, on the inscriptions on the tomb or whatever you want to call it, whatever they put his remains in I don't know what the Jewish call that, but yeah, there were some inscriptions on there Because I think his first name was Joseph Joseph, something Caiaphas, so you know, interesting. And they said the remains were probably from like a 60, 65-year-old man.
Speaker 3:Could be accurate, so they said his the remains were probably from like a 60, 65 year old man.
Speaker 1:So they did all this research and they're like this could this very well could be him Interesting. So yeah. Another great topic for a podcast.
Speaker 4:One night is the death of the disciples going through all of their deaths.
Speaker 3:Wow, yeah, oh yeah.
Speaker 1:Because we all know Judas hung himself.
Speaker 3:Yeah, so should we do that next week, because it could be like Easter and then, following up with the death of the disciples, we could We'll talk about death of disciples next week, although gossip was really high on the list. We can do that the following week.
Speaker 1:Okay so next week we'll talk about death of the disciples. The following week will be gossip. Somebody needs to remember that.
Speaker 3:You've got a pen and paper right there, buddy, I think.
Speaker 4:Beth wanted to do something on anger.
Speaker 1:Yes, and it's another great topic yeah but, she's not here, she doesn't get a vote.
Speaker 3:We're angered that she's not here.
Speaker 1:I'm so angry I'm vetoing her idea. So we were doing next week is death of disciples idea, so we were doing next week is Death of Disciples.
Speaker 4:I'm just glad I made it through this without coughing. Are you sick? Oh you are.
Speaker 1:Did I send you a text asking you how you were? No, no, Michael, you did not Listen three times, because when I drive I usually send those texts, and three different times. I was like, oh, text, nick, and then I would end up calling somebody or being on the phone and I was like I don't know if I ever sent that or not. It's okay, awesome, thank you for giving me grace. Oh, yes, always.
Speaker 4:Okay, all right.
Speaker 1:Well, I think it's technically Dawn's turn to pray.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Dawn is not here to Nick, so then it'll jump back to Don, then to Beth. You get skipped, and then it's Roger. Nothing like complicating that situation, yeah, he was going to make it easy.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, alright, here we go.
Speaker 4:Lord, thank you for bringing us all together here tonight.
Speaker 4:I really feel like this was an important message to really bring to the people the idea of what it truly means for you to save us and convict us of all the sins in our lives and to really bring forth the true idea of why you came into Jerusalem following your crucifixion and resurrection. I just can't. It's hard to express just how what you have done affects my daily life and hopefully affects all of those around me, and it's something that I truly carry with me every single day of my life, and I just hope everybody that hears this podcast can latch on to that and feel those same things for you. I pray everybody gets home safely this evening and I pray that we'll all be back here again next week. In all these things, we pray, amen, amen.
