Untimely Ends: The Apostles

What would you die for? The twelve apostles faced this question with unflinching conviction, spreading Christianity across the ancient world despite knowing the brutal fates that awaited them. Their stories of martyrdom reveal both the extraordinary courage of these ordinary men and the threatening power their message held against established religious and political systems.

Journey with us through the forgotten histories of Jesus' closest followers after the resurrection. From Andrew preaching for two days while dying on an X-shaped cross in Greece, to Bartholomew being skinned alive for converting a king to Christianity, to Thomas meeting his end by spears in distant India – each apostle's story demonstrates remarkable faithfulness under unimaginable circumstances.

Contrary to popular belief, only three disciples were actually crucified, with others facing beheading, stoning, or being sawn in half. Their missionary journeys spanned astonishingly far – reaching Scotland, Russia, Turkey, India, and Ethiopia – in an age without modern transportation. These men weren't merely spreading religious ideas; they were testifying to events they personally witnessed, willing to endure torture rather than deny what they had seen.

The legacy of these apostles endures in surprising ways. St. Andrew's X-shaped cross appears on Scotland's flag. Thomas's finger may still exist as a relic in a Christian church in Mazul. Their collective witness built the foundation of a faith that would transform the Western world.

Whether you're a lifelong believer or simply fascinated by history's pivotal figures, these accounts of extraordinary courage challenge us to examine our own convictions. What truths would you be willing to die for? Join us for this deep dive into the lives, missions, and ultimate sacrifices of Christianity's founding witnesses.

Chapters

• 0:00 Podcast Updates and Elvis News
• 14:11 Apostle Andrew's Journey and Martyrdom
• 35:29 Bartholomew's Gruesome Fate
• 41:38 Peter's Crucifixion and Humility
• 48:37 Simon the Zealot and His Contested Death
• 55:16 Thomas's Faith and Martyrdom
• 58:39 Paul, Matthew and Final Disciples

Transcript

Podcast Updates and Elvis News

Speaker 1 0:37

said your eyes wobbled. We'll just say your eyes wobbled Uppy Downy Weeble. Hey, by the way, you're welcome on the Uppy Downy. That was good, perfectly placed, and those of us who got it got it. Those of us who didn't. What are they laughing about?

Speaker 3 0:55

What's funny?

Speaker 2 1:00

I kept waiting and waiting.

Speaker 1 1:04

I did too, honestly honestly, there were two spots that I could have used it. One was early and I was like not yet, let's hold on to that, let's put that in the back pocket, like let's just, let's just keep that for a second. But there were two people who I asked did you listen to last week's podcast? I'm like oh and I was like oh, don't worry, I'm gonna know if you listen to the podcast or not.

Speaker 3 1:24

Give me a half hour, I'm gonna know well, I can tell you I know stephanie caldwell doesn't listen, because I'm telling her I'm on my way here like 10 minutes ago. She's like oh, I didn't realize you still did that.

Speaker 1 1:37

I'm like, yeah, yeah, they'll do it, yeah yeah, apparently you don't pay attention, hey, um, we are gonna. Oh, I'm we're recording, I presume yeah so I have not made an official announcement. Shall I do that? Go ahead? Yeah, so next week will be my last week on the podcast. Next week will will be a as a regular, but as a regular, oh yeah.

Speaker 1 2:04

I'll still come back. Certainly I'll still come back, but as a regular. Next week will be my last week and again the desire for myself is to be able to focus on Sunday morning service. I want to jump back into some of the tech stuff. I really want to push for some live stream stuff again, maybe not everything, but some stuff that we can live stream. Sid, you had said you know there were some times you couldn't be here.

Speaker 1 2:26

You had to be at home or wherever and you wanted to be able to watch but you couldn't and we made the choice to cancel live stream because we were seeing attendance drop and we felt like giving the option to stay home was detrimental. I think now we have a solid enough situation that we're probably okay to go back to live stream. So that's my desire. So I'm going to start to focus a little more time on live stream or on Sunday morning services, getting us in a better place. And for those of you who were here last week, you know the vision for the move of the sanctuary, and so that was the big kind of like. I really want to get into that and start spending a lot of my time there writing grants and just whatever we can do to get us to that point. So that's my focus right now. So next week will be my last week, but yeah, I'll still be around. Has it been four weeks already? Next week will be four weeks. Wow, time flies when you're having fun. Next week will be four weeks.

Speaker 2 3:17

And when you get old time flies.

Speaker 1 3:22

It certainly does. I wouldn't know. Does time fly when you get chubby? Because then I would know. Hey, nick, did I tell you that my jumpsuit's at the seamstress? Yeah, my, my, yeah, we talked about that last week Is it fixable.

Speaker 1 3:35

She is confident that she can do it. I am not confident that she can do it to my liking. It's I mean, it's a big job. It's a huge job, but we'll see. So she's going to get me back into it at least one time to make sure that I'm happy with it before we call it done and head off. However, I did get my new wig and I got two of my new belts. I have two more belts yet in the mail that haven't arrived yet.

Speaker 3 3:59

So did you get your wig monday.

Speaker 1 4:01

Then I did get it monday. So sid and I I called sid because you know post office questions go to the, the one who used to work for the post. The lady I bought it from paid extra to have it delivered on sunday, but our post office is closed on sunday, so it was in cleveland until monday at 10 30 oh, oh, really yeah, and then at some point monday afternoon 12, 31 o'clock, I got a notice it was available for pickup.

Speaker 2 4:31

So they must have piggied it down.

Speaker 1 4:34

That's I. Well, I figure they probably because it was guaranteed for monday or guaranteed for sunday. They made sure it was there on monday, but it was. It was probably not like in with the regular mail. Yeah so it was just strange, but um she should be refunded.

Speaker 1 4:48

I said the exact same thing. I told her that. I said, hey, I'm not upset that it wasn't here on Sunday. I even told her. When she said that, I was like we're not open on Sundays, we're not getting it happen, but never mind, she could have fedexed it or ups'd it, which would have been fine. But she said well, I only had your po box, yes, because you asked me for my mailing address. You didn't like if you would have said, hey, I want to ship this ups anyhow, it doesn't matter.

Speaker 1 5:15

I got it. It looks terrible right now. I mean, she did a fantastic job, fits better than any wig I've ever owned, but it's really flat from being in the box. So trying to find a hairstylist.

Speaker 3 5:25

The lady that I tagged. She has done like a few different people's, like funerals, so I didn't know if it would be.

Speaker 1 5:35

Is a funeral the same as a wig? Is a dead person's hair the same?

Speaker 3 5:38

She could just put it on a mannequin, and then there you go. Well, usually I go, oh, okay.

Speaker 1 5:42

I sit for the cut and the style, because then they can shape it to my head.

Speaker 3 5:46

Gotcha, gotcha.

Speaker 1 5:47

So they will spray it and do all of the things that they need to do, shape it on my head and then I put it on the mannequin head until Well, you know, my daughter does all those real hair dreads. Yeah, yeah, yeah, hey maybe she could, but this it like there.

Speaker 1 6:02

I think it would intimidate, yeah you have to have a certain knack for elvis hair too. Like it's not the lady that I'm going to does wigs for little theater, and so she did my original elvis wig years ago. But I can't like. I've called her cell phone and I left her a message. I called her house phone and left her a message. She's really hard. She's like super doesn't do technology at all, so it's hard to hard to get a hold of her. Well, she just doesn't answer, like she just won't answer. So she's gonna be at the theater this friday, they told me, so I'm probably gonna pop in and see her and try to say you know where she lives yeah, yeah, I yeah.

Speaker 1 6:34

I could definitely stop at her house, but she I don't. So I'm just hoping I can get them done before competition, because I even want my old one to be restyled. I washed it. Those things stink so bad when you wash them. It's the worst it really is.

Speaker 4 6:49

So any competition news.

Speaker 1 6:52

Nothing new. I am looking to sign up for a second one. Already it's in September in New York, so it's only three and a half hours from here.

Speaker 3 7:03

Is it like Buffalo, New York?

Speaker 1 7:06

Hold on, I'll tell you.

Speaker 2 7:06

Well, that'd be like five, I think Buffalo's five hours.

Speaker 1 7:09

Let me tell you, but this is a very much so entry-level contest.

Speaker 2 7:16

Maybe you should have started there.

Speaker 1 7:19

This one's been going on for a long time. Let's see here what's the name of that competition feeling the love pastor what's the name of that competition? Pennsylvania reflections, reflections of the King. Let's see here, westfield, new York, so it's just at the corner of New York.

Speaker 5 7:48

Just over the border. Just over the border, yep, just over the border.

Speaker 1 7:52

So it's not a terribly far drive and I thought I'm driving further to get to Illinois. So I think Illinois is an eight-hour drive, so this wouldn't be too terrible. Check it out. It's very small. It's all tracks, no band, a little more entry level, but depends on what the prize money is. If it pays well, why not?

Speaker 4 8:10

So the competition in Chicago, is it all band, all band.

Speaker 1 8:15

You get no tracks.

Speaker 2 8:16

All band.

Speaker 1 8:17

All band. Most of the big competitions are round one tracks. You have to provide your tracks. Round two it'll dwindle down to depending on how many people obviously compete, but it's usually one song, one track. And then the round three and the final round is all band. Do you have?

Speaker 4 8:38

any rehearsal time with these guys, you get nothing.

Speaker 1 8:41

Oh, you get their band.

Speaker 1 8:42

You get their band. They have a house band and you work with their band. So basically I say I want to do Polk Salad Annie. I have to trust that they're doing the same version that I'm doing. Wow. So what I've seen of all of these competitions, those bands are so well seasoned that there are two ways to start Polk Salad Annie. You can do the talk part, or you can just start singing the song and they will follow you pretty closely, like they just are good enough that they know it however, I've never worked with them before and that just makes me nervous, so you know already being a little bit nervous about the competition to begin with.

Speaker 1 9:16

That only increases that, and I've never worked with a live band, even in a small scale, so it'll be interesting. They've got a, I mean they've got a. They've got horn players, like it's full bit. So be curious to see yeah because that'll be even different coming behind you through the monitor the whole deal like that would be intimidating here's what I've learned anytime you do live music, ever the only thing that matters are the drums yeah, only thing that stay on time.

Speaker 4 9:42

If I can stay on time I'll be fine. The rest of them will follow me.

Speaker 1 9:45

I just need to stay on time and I need the drummer to be able to see me at all times. Yeah, like that's the yeah. So, yeah, hope for the best. Well, that'll be interesting. Yep, it'll be fun. There's one guy on my facebook who has bought stuff for me in the past. He's he, he uses like a Halloween wig and it's like he's never had it styled so it's like matted in the front, like stuck to his head, and he was like I'm pretty sure I'm going to win this. I'm like say what my friend Like and I'm not being like I don't think I'm going to win you think you'm going to mug him in the parking lot.

Speaker 5 10:23

I just want to be clear, so I showed. Rosalyn, your picture on Facebook. I said who is that? She said Elvis. I said that's Elvis. Yeah, my Elvis, that's funny.

Speaker 1 10:35

Yeah, I'm excited to get there and to just make it happen, but I have six shows this month, six shows plus the competition, so I'm going to get plenty of practice in before we get there.

Speaker 4 10:45

Colonel Parker's pushing you pretty hard. Huh, yep, yep.

Speaker 1 10:49

August is the same way. August is completely full. I can't take another date in August. So I told Alyssa next year we're bumping the price in August. It's the month everybody wants Elvis.

Speaker 3 10:58

It's weird.

Speaker 1 10:59

That's when he died, so Elvis week is that week, so there's a lot of like A lot of celebrating, yeah Well.

Speaker 3 11:08

What about when he was born? Why don't they do that?

Speaker 2 11:14

January is a pretty popular month as well but it's not nearly as popular as August is. Yeah, yep, hmm, oh.

Speaker 4 11:26

Yep.

Speaker 5 11:27

You're going to miss that.

Speaker 1 11:28

What was that? He goes.

Speaker 4 11:30

I didn't even see it.

Speaker 1 11:30

Imagine if you had hit him right in the eye In the good eye.

Speaker 3 11:32

Well in the good eye, that would have been a real problem In the bad eye, it don't matter.

Speaker 4 11:36

Yeah, it don't matter.

Speaker 1 11:39

All right. Well, what are we talking about tonight, disciples?

Speaker 3 11:42

We're doing it. Huh, we're doing it, we're doing it.

Speaker 1 11:44

This has been what. Three weeks yeah, three weeks we've been building this one Since before Easter yeah.

Speaker 5 11:51

I'm excited to hear Nick's input.

Speaker 4 11:53

Oh, he's got a stack of stuff he's printed on.

Speaker 2 11:56

A whole bunch of papers there.

Speaker 4 12:01

Did you have time to study? Well, I got saint andrew here. That was my main focus the one that was really able to get into a little bit. I wanted to do this for all 12, but life is very busy right now. So, yeah, such is life it's softball season she ain't playing softball this year? She's not she didn't want to play Wow. So you know, that's well, I shouldn't say that.

Speaker 2 12:26

That's a good thing, yeah.

Speaker 4 12:29

Nevertheless. I mean there's a lot of home projects going on.

Speaker 1 12:33

Work is very, very busy, very busy I was telling Don and Roger before everybody got here my wife, the only time her and I will have a day together is this coming Saturday. Every other day either she's got somewhere to be or I have somewhere to be literally the entire month. She is going to go to the competition with me, so that'll count for something. But generally speaking, at home together, this Saturday is the only day and she's already got my plans set for me Going to the greenhouse, buying plants and putting them in the ground.

Speaker 3 13:00

Well, it's Mother's Day weekend, of course, yeah.

Speaker 1 13:04

I told him at least you're together. You know what I got my wife for Mother's Day? I bought her a purple hydrangea. That I wanted. Wasn't that nice of me? Well, at least it wasn't a chainsaw.

Speaker 2 13:15

Yeah, that's true, Caitlin said Mom, you haven't said anything that you want.

Speaker 1 13:25

I said, caitlin I, mom, you haven't said anything that you want. I said, caitlin, I don't need anything. And so she said again mom, you didn't say anything that you want.

Speaker 5 13:28

She's a very good gift giver. But you know what? I'd like to go on a cruise. I said I need some new pots and some potting there you go.

Speaker 2 13:32

I need to transplant all my plants.

Apostle Andrew's Journey and Martyrdom

Speaker 4 13:33

Yeah, there you go I've never seen the holy land not sure I want to see it right now.

Speaker 2 13:39

not, not right now. I don't Not right now, not right now.

Speaker 1 13:41

Probably not. Wait a little while. Yeah, a little while.

Speaker 5 13:45

Well, Jarvie always tells me I'm not your mom, so I don't need to buy you a gift. So the last two years, father's Day comes. You're not my dad.

Speaker 1 13:58

I actually told my mom. I saw this on Facebook. I told my mom. I said, hey, you know Mother's Day is coming up. I know you're going to be expecting a gift, but I don't remember getting an Easter basket, just saying that's the same thing to me.

Speaker 2 14:08

When I left for vacation, you didn't leave me an Easter basket.

Speaker 1 14:11

Fair is fair. You didn't get me anything. I ain't getting you nothing. No way to be, I know, I know Two wrongs don't make a right. That's right, oh boy. So are we going to talk about disciples, or are?

Speaker 4 14:28

we going to keep making stupid jokes. Who wants to kick it off?

Speaker 3 14:29

Does anybody else kind of focus on certain I've got just like a couple things for each of them I have a question. Yeah.

Speaker 2 14:38

Oh jeez, don't ask, go ahead. How many of them were crucified, do you?

Speaker 1 14:44

know that I could tell you really quickly if I look at my notes.

Speaker 3 14:49

I think all of them.

Speaker 4 14:50

But two, no all of them but two, not as many as you think. Nope, no, nope, not as many as you think.

Speaker 2 14:57

How many died of a natural death?

Speaker 1 14:59

That's what I'm saying how many was beheaded is a better question. This is a lot.

Speaker 3 15:04

John died of a natural death, yes, but then there was some speculation that like possibly he didn't. But I also only read that one place, whereas everywhere else said he died naturally.

Speaker 1 15:16

Well, the notes that I have, there's several that are like he could have been beaten or stoned to death. Just based on translation, they could be a little bit different. Here's what I think we need to start with, because this, believe it or not, a lot of people do not know who were the 12 disciples. A lot of people don't actually know who they were. Sometimes it's hard because their names are changing.

Speaker 4 15:37

Correct, Exactly yeah exactly.

Speaker 1 15:39

So it's Peter Andrew James.

Speaker 3 15:41

That's what all these check marks are for. You see where I double checked. I'm like wait a minute, I've got different names.

Speaker 1 15:47

Peter, Andrew, James, John, Philip, Bartholomew, Thomas, Simon, Judas, Iscariot, James, Matthew and Matthias. Those are all of the disciples.

Speaker 5 15:59

Now, wait a minute. Where did Bartholomew and Nathanael come in? Wasn't one of the original, or did you say it? I missed it.

Speaker 1 16:06

I said Bartholomew.

Speaker 3 16:07

And Matthias was replaced by Judas right.

Speaker 4 16:11

Well, he replaced Judas, he replaced.

Speaker 3 16:13

Judas, Like he was kind of like one of their side.

Speaker 1 16:15

He was like a not a fan, but he followed them the whole way anyway, followed him the whole way anyway. Yeah, he was a fanboy, he was a fangirl, yeah, yeah, so then he was a groupie.

Speaker 3 16:22

Yeah.

Speaker 2 16:23

There you go, that's what.

Speaker 4 16:24

I was going to say he was a groupie.

Speaker 1 16:30

Judas was framed so get in there. Oh geez, oh geez, oh geez, oh geez. All right, let's run through them. Who's got what? What? Well, nobody answered my question yet. Question oh, how many were crucified? How?

Speaker 5 16:40

many were crucified. Three three.

Speaker 1 16:44

There's only three. Yeah, it's three.

Speaker 2 16:47

How many were beheaded?

Speaker 1 16:48

one one two, two, two james was head beheaded and matthias yes well again or stone to death, depending on translation.

Speaker 2 17:04

How many hung themselves?

Speaker 1 17:06

One I was going to say. Does anybody know which one hung themselves? Let's hope. I bet there are some who do not. I'm sure there are some people who are listening who do not, Because it is a passage of scripture that gets passed up because we're only ever focused on the crucifixion passage of scripture that gets passed up because we're only ever focused on the crucifixion. We almost stop the story at that point and we really don't like we don't focus on that.

Speaker 5 17:27

Which one was boiled in oil and survived.

Speaker 1 17:31

John, that sounds terrible.

Speaker 3 17:36

So they tried to kill him Didn't work.

Speaker 1 17:39

Does anybody know where he died?

Speaker 3 17:42

I think hold on um like today. No, never mind. That wasn't the one.

Speaker 1 17:50

Ephesus.

Speaker 5 17:50

Ephesus yep and don't ask me where that's at, because I flunked uh geography, geography, world geography, because I skipped it and went to lunch with Don every day I paid Craig Reitman to take my name off the missing attendance.

Speaker 4 18:12

Yes, all right. Well, we'll start with my boy, andrew.

Speaker 3 18:37

Okay, maybe it'll get the get the ball rolling, just flow in here. So andrew is actually peter's. I knew that. Well, I didn't know that until I did my research.

Speaker 4 18:44

Apparently, he was a disciple of John first.

Speaker 1 18:48

John the Baptist yes.

Speaker 4 18:49

John the Baptist. So that is how he is connected to Jesus is that when Jesus is baptized? Andrew and Peter witnessed this and that is how Andrew starts to follow.

Speaker 1 19:02

Jesusesus. So that's the first church defect yeah, there you go, yeah bounce from one church to the next. Yeah, looking for the next best thing, looking for greener grass.

Speaker 4 19:12

Well, he found it, but I'm just like uh it's a good choice that's all I'm saying.

Speaker 4 19:17

Yes, so peter and andrew, of course, are fishermen and that is, you know, in the gospel. That's how those two have their main meeting with Jesus. As you know, when Jesus says I want to make you fishers of men, you know he's talking to Andrew and Peter. Now they say Andrew's really not mentioned in that passage. He's only mentioned a little bit later that you learn that he's actually Peter's brother. So according to tradition, he is one of, he's one of Jesus' most close, closest to him. So he's like I'm not saying you know Jesus has a favorite, but apparently, according to tradition, he does.

Speaker 1 20:14

It's me, oh, it's me.

Speaker 4 20:16

Where is that at? They didn't write it in the Bible. They skipped that part. I missed that. I, just me. Oh, it's me. Where is that at? They?

Speaker 1 20:20

didn't write it in the Bible. They skipped that part. I missed that, I just know Okay.

Speaker 2 20:22

We just kind of skip over that part.

Speaker 4 20:23

Yeah, we skip that passage in Scripture yeah, so he's one of Jesus' main disciples. Now, after, let's see, after the crucifixion, andrew is sent out into the world and he goes. This guy goes all over the place. Um, he'll go to russia. What will be russia? Uh, he goes to, uh, greece, turkey, turkey, scotland, scotland will be where's courtney's turkey? If you know, uh, scotland's flag is saint the saint andrews cross it's a blue and white flag and yeah, if you look at it, it's, it's saint, it's the saint andrews cross um is it over there behind you?

Speaker 4 21:10

uh, I don't know. Oh, I'm sure it is on our uh, on our board, on our wall yeah, oh yeah, over there, yeah, yeah, yeah, I'm sure it's in there somewhere, our history teacher. You do see quite a few crosses in there. But like, yeah, but he, like I said, he preached in so many different places that I'm sure he could have had influence over a lot of them. But of course there is the Civil War connection.

Speaker 1 21:40

Of course, that influence over a lot of them, um, but of course, there is the civil war connection of course, that was not even possible, only nick the confederate battle flag is the saint andrews cross.

Speaker 4 21:48

when you see the classic stars and bars, it's the saint andrews cross and they say, according to tradition, is because so many southern people were Scottish, had Scottish heritage. That that's why they adopted the St Andrew's Cross for that, so you knew I'd get it in there. Yeah, I was going to say today's fun fact.

Speaker 1 22:08

Today's fun fact.

Speaker 4 22:09

So getting into his death and his crucifixion. I learned that, his death and his crucifixion. I learned that okay, so I believe this takes place. It's Roman territory but it's Greece. So the good old Romans, they didn't learn their lesson the crucifixion. So the main reason, traditionally, why they say that Andrew is going to be crucified is because, of course, he's preaching the gospel and he's upsetting the Roman government because he will not accept all of these pagan traditions and beliefs. So Andrew is trying to stamp out all these pagan beliefs and having the Roman people accept Christianity and it's really starting to make the Roman government mad. But a little more goes into it from what I've learned.

Speaker 1 23:04

Is that the main we're going to be on him all night. This is 12 episodes.

Speaker 4 23:08

No, let's be quick, I just wanted to get the guy's name. Well, I can't even say his name Agiatos Agatos, something like that. Egg and toast oh, that sounds good he's like the main prefect in the city which is called patra, but that's in Greece. Apparently his wife is. She really likes Andrew, she is accepting the Christian faith.

Speaker 4 23:42

I did read that and that's when they finally, this is the last straw for him that okay, you know his wife has defected to Christianity and now she's following Andrew, and so he's got to be put to death on an X shaped cross, and there's some argument about how that occurs. Some say that following Andrew, and so he's got to be put to death On an X-shaped cross right, and there's some argument about how that occurs. Some say that—.

Speaker 1 24:02

It just fell over.

Speaker 4 24:03

It just fell over. Some say that Andrew requested this because he did not want to be crucified.

Speaker 3 24:09

the same as Jesus, the same as.

Speaker 4 24:11

Peter.

Speaker 1 24:11

He didn't want to feel as he was worthy.

Speaker 4 24:13

So he said, yeah, let's—so they made an X out of it. And then there's another story where eggs and toast who's going to say it Cooked in grease.

Speaker 1 24:29

Let's see they're in grease. As soon as he said grease, I was like oh boy, was that canola. As soon as he said grease.

Speaker 2 24:39

I was like, oh boy Was that canola.

Speaker 4 24:40

So I think he's being crucified and he's been suffering for two days and the people are really starting to cause a riot. Things are really getting out of control. So Eggs and Toast wants to stop the execution. Gosh Right, yeah, but apparently when Too?

Speaker 1 24:59

late. Roger's going to have to leave the room. We're not going to be able to keep going.

Speaker 4 25:05

It's eggs and toast this week, oh boy. But apparently, when they try to remove him from the X-shaped cross, they lose control of their hands.

Speaker 1 25:16

The soldiers. How do they lose control of their hands Like almost some spiritual thing is keeping them from removing him from the cross. They start punching themselves. Quit hitting yourself.

Speaker 3 25:26

They were not sunny side up.

Speaker 4 25:28

Yeah. And then they say that a blazing ray of divine light illuminated the cross and Andrew expired. The wife's name was Maximilla.

Speaker 1 25:43

Okay.

Speaker 4 25:44

And she had the body of Andrew taken down and buried with honor and apparently his body moves around quite a bit after the crucifixion.

Speaker 4 25:58

Actually certain parts of his body they say, like the top of his skull, a finger, a tooth. All these different parts of his body are buried in different places. As they move around. It'll move from like Italy to Greece. And then they say, finally settled all his bones in Scotland. Because, they say, when he went to scotland and he touched his staff down in the water, in the shore, he says that the water became healing and all these people came out to get healed by the water, which is now why scotland pretty much honors him as their, as their patron saint.

Speaker 4 26:34

Um, so that's the uh legend behind all that. Uh, I know, here's a picture of old, poor Andrew on the uh.

Speaker 1 26:43

Oh, okay, all right.

Speaker 4 26:45

I mean, our listeners can't see that.

Speaker 1 26:47

But yeah, well, can you put that in the comments? I don't know.

Speaker 3 26:50

You can.

Speaker 1 26:51

We'll have to like Google one and just put it in the comments.

Speaker 4 26:53

So yeah, pretty, uh pretty brutal, but uh so brutal. So he has a really interesting story and it's maybe the same for all 12 of these guys. You know, they move around and cover as much territory as they can and more or less they're upsetting a lot. They're not upsetting the normal, you know, the citizens. They're upsetting these governments that are trying to control these people through different pagan beliefs and such things?

Speaker 1 27:24

So I would like to say this so most non-believers think that Christianity, or the Bible generally speaking, is a way for kings to control commoners. If I make you afraid of this heavenly deity that can strike you dead, you will be afraid. And if I tell you to follow my teaching my way, like just I mean, like any good cult if you follow my teaching, if you follow my way, then you will be spared the wrath of God. It's interesting because then when the real gospel starts to get preached and when Jesus comes on the scene, you know you can look at the book of Leviticus and say, if you eat bacon, if you do these things, that you will burn in hell, and so they can kind of make up their own rules. But then once Jesus has come, been crucified and died, all of those things have been fulfilled. And so now when these guys are going out and preaching the gospel, they're saying, hey, you don't have to live like that, yeah, you have to live like that.

Speaker 1 28:15

Yeah, you have to believe that Jesus Christ is your Lord and Savior. You know, I mean, they are evangelists in their own right. That I'm sure would burden kings and rulers and, you know, governors and all of those things, Because now the control that they felt like they had over the people they've lost because Jesus has paid the price Right, and so now it's chaos for them the price right, and so now it's chaos for them.

Speaker 3 28:42

I think another one that um kind of like got the heart of a you know military commander was philip. I read about that um, and it basically was just saying that he, um, his ministries, were mainly in the north af area and the Asia Minor. Is that Asia Minor or Minor?

Speaker 1 29:00

It's Minor, minor, yeah, but yeah. Yeah, I don't know where Asia Major is. It's kind of like Indochina. Where's Outdochina?

Speaker 2 29:09

It's not Dochina.

Speaker 4 29:12

So yeah, as late as 2006, the Catholic Church were still finding relics of St Andrew.

Speaker 1 29:24

When they say relics, they mean pieces of his body, pieces of his body, or perhaps things that belong to him.

Speaker 3 29:30

I just—.

Speaker 4 29:31

Things that have been passed down from generation to generation.

Speaker 2 29:34

Isn't there some of his remains in the Vatican?

Speaker 4 29:38

Well, yeah, but I think once again they may have moved them again, it's moved too, many times it's hard because they're saying you can go to Scotland and they have.

Speaker 1 29:48

Yeah, well, you know that, notre Dame, notre Dame, they have allegedly have the OG crown of thorns that Jesus wore. And then you can walk by and see it and like how do we know?

Speaker 2 30:03

yeah, yeah how do we know?

Speaker 1 30:06

because I've got one hanging out there on the wall that if you believe that that one's the real one, maybe I can sell you mine right, yeah, it didn't burn no, it was, that's it's. That's how I learned that it was there. Ironically, it was in a safe that only two people had the combination for, or something crazy like that, and when the building caught fire they couldn't get the combination from anybody to go in and get it.

Speaker 3 30:23

That was on a Netflix thing? Was it Like they couldn't?

Speaker 1 30:29

figure out how to get to it, because they didn't even really know where it was at in the building. There were only certain people who knew where it was kept.

Speaker 4 30:37

Well, have you seen? Now they're doing AI research with the Shroud of Turin.

Speaker 1 30:41

Listen that's a whole nother weird. We don't want to call it a conspiracy theory, but it can be. Reverse image of Jesus on the Shroud that nobody knows how old it is.

Speaker 5 30:54

One thing on Andrew, I have in my notes.

Speaker 1 30:57

Closer to your mic.

Speaker 5 31:00

Oh, you're always after me. I know is that that he continued to preach the gospel as he was hanging on that cross.

Speaker 4 31:06

For days I'm sure this happens and this happens in 60 ad is when they said he was put to death. It's almost 60 years after the crucifixion of Jesus.

Speaker 3 31:18

That's a long time.

Speaker 2 31:19

He's a long time.

Speaker 4 31:19

So he'd have been in his 70s then probably. Yeah, so he must have been quite young. Yeah, thanks, started out. Yeah, you're welcome.

Speaker 3 31:27

No, you were talking about, like the remains.

Speaker 4 31:30

Yeah.

Speaker 3 31:30

You know, in Thomas I was reading somewhere that his finger could still exist in the Christian church of Mazul.

Speaker 2 31:40

Okay.

Speaker 1 31:42

It's fascinating the things that we'll keep isn't it. You know, you've got hoarders that keep dead rats. We just keep people's fingers. And kids' teeth, kids' teeth. Oh, that's so weird to me.

Speaker 4 31:53

Oh, there was another one thing I wanted to share.

Speaker 1 31:55

Oh geez, They've got two of his eyeballs Kept in a mason jar.

Speaker 4 32:00

In Scotland, or in Scotland and England, they say, a local superstition uses the cross of St Andrew as a hex sign on the fireplaces in northern England and Scotland to prevent witches from flying down the chimney and entering the house to do mischief by placing Andrew's cross on one of the fireplace poster lentils witches are prevented from entering through the opening.

Speaker 2 32:30

Okay.

Speaker 5 32:32

Why don't you just put it over the door?

Speaker 4 32:33

I'll get you my pretty, because the witches fly and they come down the chimney.

Speaker 2 32:36

They're not knocking at the door. I've never seen a witch fly. I've never seen a witch fly. I've never seen a witch.

Speaker 1 32:44

I have. We won't tell Linda you're talking about her.

Speaker 3 32:51

Thanks a lot.

Speaker 2 32:54

I'm not very good graces now. Anyways.

Speaker 1 32:57

You're just throwing fuel on the fire, digging the hole. Okay, that's Andrew. We've covered, andrew. Who do we need to go to next?

Speaker 3 33:08

Bartholomew Bartholomew. Does anyone know how he died? Yes, what is it?

Speaker 1 33:14

Skinned alive.

Speaker 3 33:15

Isn't that?

Speaker 1 33:16

crazy.

Speaker 4 33:17

Like a potato peeler is how I picture it. I just picture you. What is it? Skinned alive. Isn't that crazy, Okay?

Speaker 1 33:18

now. So my question, Like a potato peeler, is how I picture it.

Speaker 4 33:21

I just picture you peeling your feet.

Speaker 1 33:26

Are we really going to go here again? Alva's going to turn off the podcast. Yeah, we're trying to be serious Nick Come on now Alva's done, turned off the podcast.

Speaker 5 33:34

That he was filleted. Why?

Speaker 4 33:36

Why was he filleted? That's that he was filleted. Why was he filleted? That's such a. It's a very gruesome death, barbaric and crazy.

Speaker 3 33:43

I don't know, I didn't find anything because I searched like why but? Yeah, as far as him. What else do I have on him? He was beheaded after that. Gee, yeah, so like oh, it wasn't enough apparently not why they selected that.

Speaker 1 34:08

I don't know, like. I mean, I know why they did it, but like why that was the like, why they didn't just shoot him between the eyes, or well, that's because they didn't have guns or crucify him, I don't know, but it was because he converted king polyamus to christianity. Now again why we chose to peel his skin off, I don't know it doesn't say it's crazy.

Speaker 4 34:27

Fired up the pagan priest yep, it does say that he's often represented in art with him either holding his flayed skin or with a skin wrapped around him.

Speaker 1 34:38

That's disgusting, yeah, so never mind, I'm not going to tell that story.

Speaker 4 34:43

Okay.

Speaker 1 34:45

We're going to talk about that.

Bartholomew's Gruesome Fate

Speaker 4 34:49

Oh, so well. Here it says according let's see, bartholomew traveled east to India to preach the gospel and ended up in greater armania and ethiopia and southern arabia okay so according to tradition, he was flayed and beheaded because he had converted the king to christianity. So apparently they wanted to really prove a point on that one.

Speaker 1 35:17

Yeah, it says that he was first filleted alive and then was beheaded.

Speaker 5 35:25

That's what I have in my notes, yeah.

Speaker 4 35:29

Yeah, I can't say this either. A state A-S-T-Y-A-G-E-S was the name of the Armenian king that commanded him to be filleted.

Speaker 5 35:45

Which I have in my notes, was the brother of the king that was converted.

Speaker 4 35:53

Wow, but that just seems like such an. I guess at the end of the day it's all about power.

Speaker 5 35:59

Yeah.

Speaker 4 35:59

Cause you figure if control. Yeah, cause you figure if you get. If you get to the King and get him to change his mind to become a Christian, you think that'd be a good thing. Like, like okay well if the King, you know, the one we all follow here is. It depends on who you Right, but you just think that okay if the king, who rules over us, believes that this is the way to go.

Speaker 1 36:21

So let's bring that to a local context for just a quick second. So I was at the Twin City Ministerial Association meeting this morning and a lady came in and she hands us a flyer about this program that they're trying to launch in the schools. It's a faith-based program but it is not doctrine or it's not church polity, so they don't talk about like being pentecost or being baptist or is it more like spirituality?

Speaker 1 36:46

no, it is definitely like they, they pre, they, they teach um genesis to revelation, but they don't like, they don't talk specifically about speaking in tongues or again what we would consider church polity more than doctrine. But we know that doctrine will still get shared to some degree regardless. They are not allowed to do it on school property, which is fine. And it has to be. They call it like relief hours, so they're allowed to leave for an hour or whatever, but they have to get parents signatures and yeti.

Speaker 3 37:22

I know Philly was trying to do it.

Speaker 1 37:24

Yes, I don't think it's the same program that Philly was trying to do, um, but nobody would be bused, they would all have to walk. So they're trying to connect with churches that kids can walk to, if that makes sense. So, like um, the intermediate school would either use the Presbyterian Church or Bethel.

Speaker 1 37:39

Like junior high could use Bethel or Presbyterian yes, so they're just trying to figure out how they can like work that out. Anyhow, long and short of it, the superintendent at Claymont had denied a high school group from meeting during their regular club meeting period because it was a faith-based organization Girl from our church, actually I don't want to say managed it but, has started it and they had to have a teacher chaperone.

Speaker 1 38:05

They had one, she quit, they got another one, but they weren't allowed to meet when everybody else was allowed to meet. So I sent them an email and I was like I'm just confused, like why is this okay? But this is not okay. What I asked was not okay was the LGBTQ+, like they're allowed to meet but they meet under a different name. So it's like the green carnations, because apparently that's representate.

Speaker 3 38:25

That's what I said, as the white doves or something, yeah, that's exactly what I said.

Speaker 1 38:27

I said well, you know, we can come up with our own way of doing that, Like there's two ways to skin a cat, stop while I'm ahead.

Speaker 2 38:45

one one more time stop while I'm ahead anyhow.

Speaker 1 38:48

Um. So he responded and he was basically like the school board gets to decide and they've said no. He said there's a law that's being passed by the state senate and they'll be able to determine how much of that instruction are like they have to allow something, but they can set it to one hour a year.

Speaker 3 39:07

One hour a year.

Speaker 1 39:08

They can so it's, it's designated as one hour. But because it's designated as one hour, it doesn't say a week, a month, a day you know what like.

Speaker 1 39:15

So basically they could cut it at one hour per year and that's all that. They would get long and short of it. Um, I've learned that he got a letter, or the school board got a letter, from somebody one of those like anti-Christianity groups and said basically, if the school allows anything, they're going to sue them and that made him panic and therefore he doesn't want to allow this. He's actually, from my understanding, where he doesn't want to allow this. He's actually, from my understanding, very much so against the program that's trying to be initiated while it's legal and it's gone through all of the things that it's supposed to go through. And I thought it's interesting that the man at the top at the school would be trying so desperately to stop these kids from getting the word Like. That just tells me what we need to know We've got the wrong superintendent.

Speaker 4 40:01

That's just the way that it is.

Speaker 1 40:03

And you know, if the school board is agreeing with him, we've got the wrong school board and, like that's, the people who are voting for. That need to be very aware of what they're voting for and they need to push back.

Speaker 4 40:15

Yeah, so things never change. I guess you know it's apparent that you know what the apostles are doing is working, otherwise I don't, you know they wouldn't bother with them. Apparently they're stirring up enough, you know, getting enough attention, that hey, we gotta which. You know. Jesus warned them about that. Yes, you know. Anyway, he knew it was coming, they all knew it was coming. Yeah, I'm sure he never thought he'd be flayed to death. But how could you?

Speaker 1 40:45

I don't think anybody plans for that. No, there's a lot of things you can think about with death, but I think being skinned alive is not on the bingo card is not on the bingo card, no, so yeah, well, who else do? We have Not on the bingo card, no, so yeah, well.

Speaker 3 41:01

Who else do we have?

Speaker 4 41:02

Go through the list. Ed Go through the list.

Speaker 1 41:05

So Well, we hit on Peter for just a quick second, so we just talk about him Briefly. Yeah, andrew's brother. Yeah, let's just talk about him. Well, you can.

Speaker 3 41:13

I don't know if I have much other than he was crucified upside down anyway.

Speaker 1 41:16

Yeah, basically, he did not want to be crucified the same way that Jesus was, and so he was crucified upside down 33 years later. Yeah.

Speaker 3 41:25

That is a long time I have questions about this, though.

Speaker 1 41:28

Okay, have you ever like laid on the couch with your head hanging upside down and the blood rushes to your head and you start to get woozy and whatnot? Do start to get woozy and whatnot? Do you think he had like he would have had to have experienced that right? Well, I'm sure he experienced that Okay but now what I'm saying, though, is like that. To me made that far worse.

Speaker 1 41:44

Oh yeah, like you got the nails in the hands and in the feet regardless, like that's happening. But now you're upside down. All the blood is rushing to your head. You're probably trying to vomit, but you can't.

Speaker 4 41:55

Like you know what I mean, Like that is a miserable experience.

Speaker 1 41:58

And so for somebody to choose that, because they didn't want to, they didn't feel worthy of dying the same way that Christ did, is beyond me.

Speaker 4 42:06

Right yeah.

Speaker 1 42:07

I mean he could have asked to have his head cut off, but instead upside down, please.

Speaker 4 42:13

Yeah, cause Jesus never said anything about hey. Nobody else is allowed to be crucified here.

Speaker 5 42:18

I'm the only one that you know, so, but yeah, I have in my notes that part of the reason that they crucified him is that there was fires in Rome and the king blamed the Christians starting those fires, and so they were going to take the leader down.

Speaker 4 42:37

Yeah, so it was between 64 and 68 AD.

Speaker 1 42:41

Okay.

Speaker 4 42:42

So a little later than Andrew, that was on Vatican Hill in Rome, okay.

Speaker 3 42:49

Which we have to keep in mind that it actually wasn't 64.

Speaker 1 42:54

Like Jesus technically would have died around 32 or 33. Yes, exactly.

Speaker 4 43:01

He was a yes and it wasn't. And it wasn't that he said I don't want to be crucified like jesus. So they thought, okay, what can we do with him? We'll hang him upside down. I guess he apparently said told them to hang him upside down according to tradition. So, and then he was buried there, uh, on a road leading out of the city, on vatican hill, um so just to clarify the ad bc ad thing a lot of people think ad is after death.

Speaker 1 43:30

It is not um. It's a latin term, um, which stands for in the year of our Lord. So when Jesus started to live, that's AD began.

Speaker 2 43:42

So for clarity on that, I always thought that AD started after he was crucified.

Speaker 1 43:53

Nope, no, learn something new today.

Speaker 2 43:55

Huh, you're never too old to learn something.

Speaker 1 43:57

Too old to retain it, but not too old to learn it, Beth. Are those notes too small? Yes, she's like where are them glasses at?

Speaker 3 44:05

Well, the notebook looks small.

Speaker 5 44:07

I was thinking the same thing Do you know how many times I've wrote my notes down and forgot them here forgot them there, little pocket-sized notebook I can't read my own writing as part of it so we've covered Andrew.

Speaker 1 44:22

We've talked a little bit about James, just that he was one of the ones that was beheaded now I've got two Jameses in here.

Speaker 3 44:28

Is there two James?

Speaker 1 44:30

yes, there's James, james the less, and then James, son of Zebedee. Yep, that got quiet real quick well, the son of Zebedee.

Speaker 2 44:39

Yep, that got quiet real quick.

Speaker 3 44:40

Well, the son of Zebedee I have. He was martyred when he was preaching in Jerusalem and was stoned to death by the Jews, then clubbed to death well how are you stoned to death and clubbed to death?

Speaker 1 44:55

you only die once.

Speaker 3 44:56

You don't get to die multiple times. Maybe he was stoned, but not to death. Death and clubbed to death. You only die once. You don't get to die multiple times. Maybe he was stoned, but not to death.

Speaker 1 45:00

And then clubbed to death. I have that he was beheaded. Who are we?

Speaker 5 45:05

talking about. I have that he was beheaded.

Speaker 1 45:07

James, son of Zebedee.

Speaker 5 45:08

Son of Zebedee. I have that he was the first one.

Speaker 1 45:12

Off with his head.

Speaker 3 45:14

The first one to be um martyred martyred I know he preached in syria well, that's good to know.

Speaker 5 45:21

Yeah, it's good to know way to go, james and that he was king herod, but it had another name after herod, so I don't it's not the same king herod yeah, oh agrippa king herod agrippa yeah, you're right, the first, the first of judia yeah, and then that the man that went to the king and made the accusations um was saved then by james and so he died along him, was beheaded right along the side man, he's just cutting everybody's head okay, I have to make a correction.

Speaker 3 45:59

What I said was the other James. Oh, okay, you were on the wrong James.

Speaker 4 46:02

Yeah, I was about ready to say King Herod is the one that orders the death of James of Zebedee.

Speaker 5 46:11

Yes. Yeah, and the man that went to him and accused him of James, of whatever ended up being saved, all right.

Speaker 3 46:22

What about Simon?

Speaker 1 46:25

Real quick before we do that, since we're talking about beheadings. I knew this, but I had to look it up just to make sure that I was right. So we talk about beheading people like. This is a little bit different when we're talking about beheading in these times, probably just with a sword or a knife or whatever. They're just like literally cutting someone's head off.

Speaker 3 46:42

We should probably tell them Dawn left.

Speaker 1 46:43

Oh yeah, dawn left. Dawn left. She had somewhere to be so she left. She was here, but she's gone. Bye, dawn, miss you.

Speaker 3 46:49

See you.

Speaker 1 46:49

Dawn. Did you know that the guillotine was used all the way until 1977.?

Speaker 3 46:58

I did know that.

Speaker 1 46:58

What? Yes, they were still cutting people's heads off in 1977. Yes, in.

Speaker 3 47:05

Germany.

Speaker 1 47:06

France was a big one. Yes, france was a big one, yes.

Speaker 3 47:09

Yeah, I read that somewhere recently. How?

Speaker 1 47:11

bizarre that until 19. Elvis was alive when they were cutting people's heads off, mm-hmm. How weird, how weird, how weird.

Speaker 4 47:20

Anyhow, are we talking about Simon the Zealot? Yes, okay, yes.

Speaker 3 47:23

Are we Now? We are.

Speaker 2 47:25

We are Okay.

Speaker 4 47:28

Okay, so he dies in Persia and I've got here that he was sawed in half.

Speaker 1 47:34

I have crucified or possibly sawed in half.

Speaker 3 47:36

Because he didn't want to sacrifice to the sun god.

Speaker 1 47:40

Okay.

Speaker 4 47:41

The sun Like they were worshiping the sun, all in Persia. That's what they do in Persia.

Speaker 3 47:46

I don't know if that's what they still do.

Speaker 5 47:48

And he also was with Jude Thaddeus.

Speaker 1 47:51

Thaddeus. I like Thaddeus, thaddeus.

Speaker 5 47:53

They preached together.

Speaker 2 47:55

Yes, Thaddeus was a cool dude.

Simon the Zealot and His Contested Death

Speaker 4 47:58

That is not because they do say there is a possibility he did die of old age.

Speaker 3 48:03

I was going to say. I have here that it's their speculation of his death.

Speaker 5 48:08

I have that Jude was killed to death.

Speaker 1 48:10

Wait, hold on. How do we speculate that somebody was sawed in half? Either you were or you weren't. Was it a magic trick and they pulled him back out and he goes ta-da.

Speaker 3 48:19

Well, it probably depends on who's telling the story. Is it the loser or the winner?

Speaker 1 48:23

Yeah, and it is hard to remember I mean, it's something to put into context that the information that we have, just like all information, is only what you can glean from the stories that people have told, and you get differing opinions or stories. You don't really know what happened.

Speaker 4 48:38

so yeah, because yeah, because according it's according to the apocryphal passion of simon and jude that he is cut in half, but according to the studies of saint basil the great uh, the fourth century cappadocian father, he dies peacefully. Okay, it's all like a lot of this is just a lot of.

Speaker 1 49:00

Well, I prefer the gruesome ones.

Speaker 5 49:02

So I know I don't remember what I?

Speaker 4 49:04

Well, yeah, if you're going to make the movie, let's go Sorry.

Speaker 5 49:08

Beth, no, it just said whatever. I where I got my information. It said just that he was either crucified or sold in half. Yeah, I mean, they just really weren't sure. I think if you're sold in half, people just would tend to not forget that.

Speaker 1 49:21

Yeah, that's what I'm saying, Like, if you watch that happen, you're not going to forget.

Speaker 5 49:25

Oh wait, as I'm studying this, I'm like, oh Lord, I pray that you just stepped in and let them not feel anything.

Speaker 4 49:32

Well, I'm picturing like is it a long sword? Like the lumberjacks, have one guy on each end yes, the saw yes, or is it just some guy with a dull?

Speaker 1 49:41

blade. That's what I'm thinking. It's like he's playing the violin. Yeah, I actually always picture. You've seen Aladdin the movie, aladdin the cartoon and like all of those, all of the palace guards have those great big swords with a hump in the middle of them, but they're real long and real fat. I just picture them using two hands and swinging that sucker Like chopping a log almost.

Speaker 2 50:05

You know what I mean? That was great. So cutting your head off would be like chopping a log.

Speaker 1 50:09

Yeah, I'm sure it would be.

Speaker 2 50:11

If they miss, you'd dunk in the back of the head oh ah, Oop, try again.

Speaker 1 50:18

Thomas is one of my favorites. I like Thomas, just generally speaking. I like Thomas, I like go ahead.

Speaker 4 50:24

Well, I just had a thought. So okay, so for all these apostles after Jesus is crucified, is there any safe haven for these guys? Is there any place in the world these guys can go that if they had wanted to, they could have just stayed there, say, build a church, whatever, and been safe? Likely not.

Speaker 1 50:45

No, if you think about it, because they're they're going against literally every well, and I Hear is it Peter or Paul that gets arrested and that he's on the boat and then he goes to the island? It's Peter.

Speaker 2 50:58

I think it's Peter.

Speaker 1 50:58

Gets bit by the snake on the island and shakes off the snake and then they think he's some sort of godly guy, like literally they would arrest them and transport them all over the world. There was nowhere really that they would ever be safe. I wouldn't think.

Speaker 4 51:10

Not even in Judea or anywhere.

Speaker 1 51:12

No because at that point remember that Jesus said that you know, a prophet is welcome anywhere except for in their own hometown. So I think if those guys were to go even close to those people who knew them, they would be chastised for whatever it is that they're doing. And I think that that's an important passage of scripture to even just remember that, that you know, for those of us who have family members who are not saved, that we wish were saved and we try to preach the gospel to them. I mean, the Bible tells us that we will never be welcome in our own hometown. That a lot of times when we're telling people that we love or that we know about who Jesus is they're like you're crazy and you're just a.

Speaker 1 51:54

You know a Bible thumper and you just whatever. But it's not until they have an experience with God or that somebody that they know tells them.

Speaker 3 52:04

Then they realize and out of town, or tells them yes, and out of town, or tells them.

Speaker 4 52:09

And, as you said before, we're a very blessed people here in the United States to be able to worship freely. Still to this day, there's some places you cannot do that. So yeah, it was just an interesting thought I had.

Speaker 4 52:22

I thought do these guys have anywhere to go, that they felt like safe for a while, like if they need you know, if they right, if they just get tired. And I wonder, did they ever get back together? You know, were they ever these guys ever get back together? You know, were they ever these guys ever get back together at all? Or did they just all go their separate ways and tried to cover as much ground as they could, right, and never saw each other again Because, I mean, they had to be close?

Speaker 4 52:50

Right, you know during that time of their discipleship, before you know, Jesus was crucified.

Speaker 3 52:54

Yeah.

Speaker 4 52:54

So I wonder if they ever had a chance to see one another again I know like a couple of them did preach together like paul and peter yep

Speaker 1 53:05

um a few other ones there's a lot of bible stories too, about when they would go out together and then they would separate. You know be differences in opinion and you can really see that that's how the church starts to start in different ways.

Speaker 3 53:16

Yeah, right.

Speaker 1 53:17

And again they start to like really lean into different, Okay, into their interpretation of what Jesus had told them.

Speaker 4 53:25

Yeah, but they're not getting together for any like reunions. No, there's no, you know, 25th anniversary reunion?

Speaker 1 53:31

No, no, because at this point they're all just dying off.

Speaker 4 53:34

Yeah, they're all getting. Yeah. No, because at this point they're all just dying off.

Speaker 1 53:36

Yeah, they're all getting. If they all get together, they're in trouble because they're just going to be a mob form, and I feel like Paul would have told us or something.

Speaker 3 53:43

Yeah, oh yeah, for all his past events that he wrote yeah, that's a good point I don't know.

Speaker 1 53:47

Speaking of Paul, there's things to think about.

Speaker 3 53:49

Have we talked about Paul? We have not talked about Thomas. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah yeah.

Speaker 1 53:54

So Thomas is one of my favorites, because this is doubting Thomas. This is Thomas who, in my opinion, gets a bad rap for questioning Jesus, and I say that because each and every one of us do it every single day. We just like to pretend like we don't. Thomas was the only one in that room brave enough to say Lord, if it's really you like, yeah, let me see something.

Speaker 1 54:12

You can tell all these people who you say you are, but until I see it I'm not gonna believe it. And so he gets cast as the doubter. He's the, he's the odd man out, because everybody else just buys it. Speared to death in india ouch by four soldiers.

Thomas's Faith and Martyrdom

Speaker 1 54:31

Spears like that's so we talk about impaling on poles in the old testament, like there's these huge poles and the kings are just impaling people on these poles and just like all these like. And then kings are just impaling people on these poles and just like all these like. And then I picture that with like all of these bodies just stacked on top of the pole. Yeah.

Speaker 1 54:43

You just slide down the pole and you throw another one on Like a shish kebab yeah, it's like a human shish kebab and like that's kind of what happened to Thomas.

Speaker 4 54:49

Like Thomas was like that would have been frightening to face that knowing it's coming hit on, and the old diners when they'd put the order oh yeah, with their ticket yes, they just keep stacking.

Speaker 5 55:03

Yes, yes, exactly exactly I have in my notes that he, the first spear, was through the side, just like jesus's. So whether you know, history's right or not, I don't know and that he also continued praying until his last breath.

Speaker 3 55:20

Hmm, who was the other one that?

Speaker 4 55:25

did that? When does it say when he was?

Speaker 5 55:28

It probably did, but I didn't probably write it down the one that was hung on the X cross.

Speaker 3 55:37

I know he was preaching East Assyria Andrew.

Speaker 5 55:45

That he continued to preach the two days from the cross.

Speaker 1 55:50

For two days Yowch.

Speaker 4 55:53

They actually have a date for him. They think it's July 3rd of 72 ad 1972. Ad latin church holds tradition that it was december 21st so like six months different somehow because we just make up dates, like in my.

Speaker 1 56:17

it is really hard to put dates Like we celebrate Jesus' birthday on December 25th.

Speaker 4 56:21

Chances are that ain't Jesus' birthday, we don't know. And once again, they decapitate him after the fact.

Speaker 5 56:28

According to this, and I have that he went into areas that never even heard of Christ.

Speaker 4 56:36

I wonder did they do that because they were afraid, maybe they'd come back like Jesus did?

Speaker 2 56:42

I don't know.

Speaker 4 56:43

Because that kind of rolls into vampire mythology, even though after they kill him, they still behead him. They're not taking any risks?

Speaker 1 56:50

Yeah, any risks.

Speaker 4 56:51

Even though we think it's dead, we're still going to cut its head off. We're going to separate it from its body so it doesn't come back.

Speaker 1 57:03

They said, they did that. This is you have to be local in order to the warlock's grave. Oh yeah, that when they buried him they cut his head off so that.

Speaker 4 57:06

But every year it inches closer to the, to the top and I'm like you go crazy. So I wonder if it was sometimes their local superstitions that made him go to these lengths to be like we got to make sure this dude's dead and he ain't coming back.

Speaker 3 57:17

It's very possible.

Speaker 2 57:19

That's why they got that big stone on his grave too.

Speaker 3 57:23

The warlocks yes allegedly. It's on my stepmom's mail route.

Speaker 1 57:31

Really, does she deliver mail to him? Does he still?

Speaker 3 57:33

get mail. Every now and then he does. He still gets mail.

Speaker 1 57:38

They're still trying to reach him about his car's extended warranty.

Speaker 3 57:43

He's still getting voter registration.

Speaker 2 57:44

Yeah, right, yeah.

Speaker 5 57:48

You guys are so wrong. I know what can we say.

Speaker 1 57:52

What can we say? Hey, we've creeped up on an hour pretty quickly.

Speaker 3 57:56

All right, well, we got to do the poll.

Speaker 1 57:58

We at least got to. We've creeped up on an hour pretty quickly. We gotta do, Paul.

Paul, Matthew and Final Disciples

Speaker 3 57:59

We at least gotta we can speed run the last of them, paul, cause I feel like that's the only one we have.

Speaker 4 58:03

Paul Paul, paul Paul.

Speaker 3 58:05

Okay, so I have that. He was the only one persecuted, or no, sorry, he was the one who persecuted Jesus' followers before following him. Yep, some a lot of us know that, but some don't. But Yep, some a lot of us know that, but some don't. But he was beheaded in 66 AD, possibly the same time as Peter, which I think. Maybe Beth said that, possibly, but I did think that this was interesting. Second Corinthians, 11.25, says this would be him speaking Three times. I was beaten with rods once. I was stoned three times, I was was shipwrecked once. I spent a whole night and a day adrift at sea. So, basically, and maybe he was speaking, you know, not literally, maybe those are more symbolic things, or maybe he was speaking literal, but I just thought that was very interesting, so cool. Yes, anyone else have anything from Paul?

Speaker 1 59:04

I'll say this this is the kind of stuff that if you can ask the question, it gives you something to dig in your Bible about and then, obviously, just like, you can Google it and you can just read about it and it's not always going to be like, well, that's a weird topic to Google. But if you Googled, like, the order of Jesus's miracles because you get different miracles in different books of the Bible you would really be able to sit down and put a timeline of Jesus's life together.

Speaker 1 59:29

And really like that's real Bible study. That's the stuff that gets you engaged. What were you going to say, Nick?

Speaker 4 59:35

You got your phone out ready to quote some stuff. Well, I forget which one it was, but the Emperor Nero in Rome. I know he ordered the death of another one of the disciples. Can't remember which one it was, but he's the one that orders Paul's death as well. Peter, I think, Okay, so Paul and Peter maybe Okay, apparently, paul had the rights of Roman citizenship. Yes, I did know that, which is why he was put to bet, put to death with a sword instead of crucifixion, gotcha.

Speaker 5 1:00:05

Huh, did we cover.

Speaker 3 1:00:06

Matthew, did I miss out? No, actually, we didn't.

Speaker 1 1:00:11

Oh, I've already closed my Mac book.

Speaker 3 1:00:13

Well, you're off the hook on this one, okay.

Speaker 1 1:00:14

Deal.

Speaker 3 1:00:15

Yeah, I don't think we did.

Speaker 1 1:00:19

Matthew danced away into the sunset.

Speaker 3 1:00:21

In Ethiopia by a sword wound.

Speaker 4 1:00:28

Although some old reports say he wasn't. So a lot of them are going to India, Ethiopia. Why do you think that area was so important?

Speaker 3 1:00:35

Well, is it close to where?

Speaker 5 1:00:40

I don't know, I can't see the map's too far away india's, you know.

Speaker 4 1:00:45

You can see where egypt is saudi arabia uh- huh.

Speaker 3 1:00:48

So I mean, yeah, it's a short walk it's a short walk and walking distance but there's also been ones that went to africa like that's not a short walk, that's the other way.

Speaker 4 1:00:59

Yeah, that's true.

Speaker 1 1:01:00

Yeah, we don't know how far in Africa they went. We don't know that they went down to the tip.

Speaker 4 1:01:04

I'm impressed with Andrew. I mean for going all the way up into Russia. Yeah.

Speaker 1 1:01:10

Yeah, but I don't think he walked. He probably took an Uber.

Speaker 4 1:01:14

Oh come on.

Speaker 5 1:01:21

Maybe a Lyft walked. He probably took an uber.

Speaker 3 1:01:22

Oh, come on maybe, maybe, a lift, I don't know. Jet blue, jet blue. So wait a minute, what'd?

Speaker 5 1:01:25

you have. Matthew died from um a sore wound. Yeah, I have. They was stabbed um shedding blood on the altar.

Speaker 3 1:01:29

He was teaching the love of christ but then this also says possibly ethiopia, but then some reports say africa as well I have.

Speaker 2 1:01:41

So maybe it's both but do you do you think, maybe, that the uh arc of the arc of the covenant isn't ethiopia? That'd be a great place to start. Yeah apparently they say it is, yeah, but but nobody can get into this shrine and actually find out, because it's just a small building but then there's a big fence around it and then there's a keeper and he's there all the time. He basically lives there.

Speaker 4 1:02:14

Really.

Speaker 2 1:02:15

Yeah, huh, time he basically lives there, really, yeah, huh, and when, and I think I think he does have an apprentice and that way, when he passes his apprentice takes his job, there's always someone there and what about did we do the other james, james the son well, that was the one that I started saying.

Speaker 3 1:02:33

That it was uh, that I was getting it mixed up with james's evidy. But yeah, the other james, murdered when preaching in jerusalem and was stoned to death by the jews well, stoned and then clubbed to death.

Speaker 1 1:02:49

Question yes, stone to death, clubbed to death.

Speaker 5 1:03:00

He was, I don't know. I can't read my own writing that he was thrown from the walls of the temples, but he survived. And then he was clubbed to death by a bystander.

Speaker 3 1:03:15

So, some guy just comes along and finishes him off well, and the walls were probably made of stone, so they were probably just throwing him, you know it's such bizarre that he was had was taken before the same council that can condemned does anybody smell nail polish right now?

Speaker 1 1:03:35

nope, yeah, I'm starting to think I'm having a stroke. I'm not sure. Like seriously, does anybody smell nail polish right now? Uh-uh, nope.

Speaker 5 1:03:38

Is there something you'd like to talk about?

Speaker 1 1:03:39

Yeah, I'm starting to think I'm having a stroke, I'm not sure. Like seriously, like I smell nail polish really, really strong right now. What's nail polish?

Speaker 5 1:03:46

got to do with a stroke. Is that a smell? I don't know. Isn't it toast? You smell toast. You're having a stroke.

Speaker 4 1:04:00

Isn't Eggs and toast.

Speaker 3 1:04:01

Eggs and toast. Is that next week's working into the sermon eggs and toast You're going to?

Speaker 4 1:04:05

have to listen to us every week, just so you can work a little egg in Key word or phrase.

Speaker 1 1:04:08

We did that when we first started. We did that and I would ask what was the key word, what was the secret word?

Speaker 3 1:04:14

Or what was the key point?

Speaker 4 1:04:15

We can all yell like Pee Wee, irving.

Speaker 3 1:04:17

Yes.

Speaker 4 1:04:23

Can you imagine visitors coming and?

Speaker 1 1:04:24

they did that, they'd be like what just?

Speaker 3 1:04:25

happened peewee's playhouse going on in here.

Speaker 1 1:04:27

It's a cult. It's a cult. Freaking people are crazy, oh geez.

Speaker 5 1:04:31

So I don't know. In my reading and looking, I come across where it said that the you know when, when Judas threw the 30 pieces of silver back at the priest, or whatever.

Speaker 1 1:04:43

You're not talking into your microphone. Nobody can hear you, okay, thank you.

Speaker 5 1:04:46

Judas threw the pieces of silver back, that the priest kept it and bought a piece of land, and that piece of land that they called it the field of blood because that was blood money.

Speaker 4 1:04:56

Oh, interesting.

Speaker 1 1:05:00

They don't know where it was when I researched that Interesting I didn't know that we need to get her a head mic.

Speaker 2 1:05:06

Yeah, she's going to have to start wearing a headset.

Speaker 1 1:05:07

I'll have to call her Garth Brooks.

Speaker 5 1:05:09

Yeah.

Speaker 4 1:05:11

I don't like to talk. All right, is that it? I think that is all. Who's turn that it?

Speaker 5 1:05:18

I think that is all. Whose turn is it? It's probably Dawn's again.

Speaker 1 1:05:21

Dawn got skipped. Dawn went and then, but you had already gone because you were skipped the first time, nick, you, I started the whole.

Speaker 4 1:05:30

You fixed it, then she did it.

Speaker 1 1:05:32

Then Dawn did it. It's Roger's turn.

Speaker 3 1:05:34

I knew it was one of them. It's Roger's turn. Here we go. I'm going to do it, are you going to get it right? Yes, I'll do it.

Speaker 2 1:05:43

All right, Heavenly Father, I do thank you, Lord, for this day. Lord, we just ask you to continue to be with this podcast, Lord. Be with each person that listens to it. Lord, we just hope that some of our words and our funny antics and that just lightens in people's hearts. Lord, Lord, we just ask that they can just let them learn how to get into the Word and to study the Word, Lord. This session here, Lord, was a good one to start with. Lord, Just ask you know if they wrote anything down while they're listening to this. Get into the Word and see how right we were or how wrong we were. Lord, and we just thank you and praise you. Lord, we just ask you to give each person you know traveling mercies from here and back. Lord and Lord, just let us have a blessed rest of the week, Lord, and we just thank you and praise you and we give you all the glory and we just ask all these things in Jesus name, Amen.

Speaker 1 1:06:52

Eggs and bacon.