The Woman Who Led When Men Wouldn't

The Book of Judges chronicles a 325-year period when God's chosen people repeatedly strayed from His path, suffered consequences, cried out for help, and were rescued by appointed leaders. Among these judges stands Deborah - a remarkable woman who served as prophet, military strategist, poet, and leader when men failed to step up.

In this episode, we explore Deborah's extraordinary story and its striking relevance for believers today. Her Hebrew name means "bee," representing both the sting of her authority and the sweetness of her leadership. As one of the Bible's most influential women, Deborah sat beneath her palm tree rendering judgment while Israel suffered under Canaanite oppression.

When God called her to confront the mighty army of Sisera with his 900 iron chariots, Deborah demonstrated tactical brilliance. She positioned Israel's forces atop Mount Tabor, gaining decisive advantage over their enemies struggling uphill. Her victory, completed by another woman named Jael who drove a tent peg through Sisera's temple, ushered in forty years of peace for God's people.

Deborah's story reminds us that God continually provides opportunities to return to Him. Her willingness to give God full credit for victory stands in stark contrast to our tendency to claim success as our own. Join us as we examine this powerful biblical account and discover how Deborah's ancient wisdom speaks directly to our modern spiritual battles.

Transcript

Speaker 1 0:37

All right, we're on Just the three of us.

Speaker 2 0:41

Just the three of us, me Falling apart here.

Speaker 1 0:45

Yeah.

Speaker 2 0:46

Was your chair falling apart? Yeah, trying to get comfortable. Michael's walking in Trying to find the right position.

Speaker 1 0:51

Yeah, so Michael's no longer with us. He'll be back. Yeah, he's actually, we're not letting him go that easy.

Speaker 2 0:56

No, but we'll give him a break. Give him a break.

Speaker 1 0:58

I think he's just going to. He's on break. He's going to come call him back. Yeah, yeah He'll be begging. He just walked in with like four big Amazon boxes and his trunk is still open, so he's probably got more.

Speaker 2 1:13

That guy, that just means more work for you, Roger.

Speaker 3 1:15

That's what that means I know. I know.

Speaker 1 1:18

You look tired.

Speaker 3 1:20

We just hung one of them, 86-inch.

Speaker 2 1:22

TVs. Yeah, ooh, yeah, how'd that go? Tell us about that.

Speaker 3 1:27

Actually it went fairly well. Yeah, yeah, I held the template. He drilled the holes. I held the bracket. He put them in. We put the brackets on the TV. Of course we had Sis as a backup. She came back in case I couldn't handle it, but we got it up there.

Speaker 1 1:45

How long did it take?

Speaker 3 1:47

Actually not very long. Good, I was impressed. That's good. Now he wants see. He's on vacation this week.

Speaker 1 1:54

That's this week.

Speaker 3 1:55

Yeah, and he wants me to take and put the other one up.

Speaker 1 2:01

By yourself, you mean.

Speaker 3 2:05

Yeah, well, you did the first one, roger, so you should know how it works. Oh yeah, I know there you go, there you go.

Speaker 1 2:11

Have you ever hung a door? I'm sure.

Speaker 3 2:13

Hung a door. Yeah, no, I've hung a cat, but not a door. Oh sorry, Margie.

Speaker 2 2:20

All right, you're going to have to delete this whole introduction. I mean, we're only at minute 45.

Speaker 3 2:25

No, I'm not, for the sake of Roger.

Speaker 2 2:27

I've never hung a cat, really no, you said that like you're surprised.

Speaker 1 2:32

How about a door?

Speaker 2 2:33

Yeah, I've hung a door.

Speaker 1 2:34

Well, you know they're a pain in the butt right.

Speaker 3 2:36

Yeah.

Speaker 1 2:36

Well, Chase has done a few, but we got a front door like a new front door, and he's like oh, he was just dreading putting it in, you know, and I think he was done within like an hour and 15 minutes.

Speaker 3 2:47

Yeah, she did, he was so satisfied with himself.

Speaker 1 2:49

So just reminding you of that.

Speaker 3 2:51

Practice makes perfect.

Speaker 1 2:52

Yeah, yeah, exactly, all right.

Speaker 2 2:57

Oh yeah, Last night I was actually on another podcast.

Speaker 1 3:01

Oh, you were Like you were sitting in on one.

Speaker 2 3:03

Well, the podcast I listened to called Addressing Gettysburg. They started doing theirs live on YouTube.

Speaker 3 3:10

You called in.

Roger's Experience on Another Podcast

Speaker 2 3:11

Yeah, oh, that's cool it just happened to be on a subject that I'm really interested in. And it kind of what they were talking about. My great, great great grandfather's regiment was in that part of the battle. So I have a lot of interest in it, and there's a particular soldier in that regiment that I'm doing research on.

Speaker 2 3:30

So it started at seven, right? So I thought, okay, you know, I'll follow along live and I'll call in when it's time. Well, here it is going on 930. And I still haven't got to the call-in part of it, oh man. And usually I'm in bed by 930.

Speaker 1 3:45

That's what I was going to say.

Speaker 2 3:46

But finally, you know, yeah, they did the call-ins and I was on for I don't know, just a few minutes, but it was kind of cool it was fun.

Speaker 1 3:55

That's cool.

Speaker 2 3:57

So the first callers Um it was kind of odd because I'm following it on YouTube. And then he said okay, go ahead and call. Well, when, uh, they put me on, they were in a different spot than what YouTube was. So either I was a little bit, I must've been a little bit uh behind. I mean, I can't click on the update live button but, I still must have been a little bit behind, so then I was throwing off a little bit yeah so it was.

Speaker 2 4:23

It was kind of hard to talk on the phone yes, instead of looking at people, and and have a conversation with two people as opposed to what we do. Yeah, yeah, you know because, and there's always a little delay- delay. I was about to say yeah which makes it kind of difficult, but it was fun. Like I said, it was only a few minutes, but I was probably like the second or third caller yeah, that's good.

Speaker 1 4:48

I wonder if dale he probably wouldn't have had a delay with I don't know, because I wondered that too yeah, because it was kind of it almost felt like there was a delay.

Speaker 2 4:57

Remember, we'll have to ask him yeah, Because I immediately went back and listened to myself. Oh yeah. Because I thought, oh, I sound stupid, especially because I was like, oh, I'm kind of talking over them because of the delay or not speaking up soon enough, but I think it was okay.

Speaker 1 5:13

I'm sure they're used to it too. I think I sounded halfway intelligent. That's good.

Speaker 2 5:17

Yeah, but I kind of shared some information that they didn't know.

Speaker 1 5:22

Yeah.

Speaker 2 5:22

Because from doing research, I had some things that they had never seen before.

Speaker 1 5:26

Well, that's good. So yeah, it was fun. So your great, great, great, great grandpa Well however many greats would go back to the Civil War. Okay, at least three, yeah, yeah, I don't know if it would be four, but yeah, probably three. I would think Right, probably three. Yeah, depending on, yeah, the generations, I guess.

Speaker 2 5:46

Yeah.

Speaker 3 5:47

Well, how?

Speaker 2 5:48

long has that been? Well, 1863 is. You know. That was the battle. So you know, almost 170 years ago.

Speaker 3 5:59

Mm-hmm. Yeah, it could be three. Yeah, yeah, that's what I was thinking.

Speaker 1 6:04

Three and a ago. Yeah, it could be three. Yeah, yeah, that's what I was thinking Three and a half.

Speaker 3 6:07

Three and a half.

Speaker 1 6:08

Three and a quarter. I feel like I should shut that door. I'm going to go shut it.

Speaker 3 6:14

Wait, Frank, you think somebody's listening to us.

Speaker 2 6:17

We have listeners.

Speaker 3 6:19

Someone's listening to us. Where's Beth? Where's Beth?

Speaker 2 6:25

at.

Speaker 1 6:26

Beth is working. Quote unquote Okay, she may or may not join us, we'll see.

Speaker 3 6:36

Any bets.

Speaker 1 6:38

Any bets on if Beth is coming? Yeah Well, I kind of told her I was like well, I don't know if it'll be worth coming, depending on what time she gets out. I said, since I have to be out around seven.

Speaker 3 6:48

Yeah, so I would say it's going to be the three of us. Yeah.

Speaker 2 6:53

That's just fine, that's okay. We'll do okay.

Speaker 1 6:56

Can only go up from here. Yeah, that's true.

Speaker 2 7:05

That's here. Yeah, that's true, that's true. So our topic tonight, guys, um michael did a sermon on, uh, the book of judges in particular deborah.

Discussion About Deborah From Judges

Speaker 1 7:08

A couple weeks ago that was mother's day, right, yeah, um yeah, yeah, yep, yep.

Speaker 2 7:11

I wasn't here, but I heard about it it was pretty good, and so some of the things that he he, you know said in his sermon really struck with me and I thought, you know, I think there's a little bit more here um to look into, look into and to talk about.

Speaker 2 7:24

So I thought, oh, that'd be a good topic, um, and I kind of wanted to start diving into some of these. You know these people's lives and you know, and how their lives can still affect us today. See what we can learn from them. Um. So, of course, um, deborah is in the book of judges. Judges, which is the seventh book in the bible. So it's it's in the early period and it comes right after joshua, um, so if you know anything about joshua, he is called upon to uh, be a great military leader, and he is. His job is basically to completely destroy the Canaanites and take back the Holy Land. So I believe he's only one of two people to go from Egypt, cross over into the Promised Land to begin this crusade, to bring the land back to God's people. And that's exactly what he does. I mean I forget how many kings he conquers at least 20 kings, or so. I mean he just wipes them all out and he takes back over the Holy Land, and Canaan is Israel.

Speaker 2 8:41

Yeah, over the holy land and canaan is, is, is israel. Yeah, so, um, so they're taking back israel from all these other people. Uh, unfortunately, after joshua is victorious, the people of israel, um, take it for granted and they get lazy.

Speaker 1 9:00

Surprise, Surprise surprise.

Speaker 2 9:05

So, yeah, they get lazy, they start worshiping other gods, other things, they get themselves in all kinds of trouble, and so God is then going to start judging those people again and placing them in situations to bring them back into the fold, and this is something God will have to do time and time and time again. Which is the main point of the book of Judges, is in the book of Judges, and I think this, the book of Judges, spans a period of about 325 years, which I think is interesting, because think of our nation will be 250 years next year. So we haven't even reached you know that span of time.

Speaker 2 9:53

So I always think that's interesting and you can. There's a lot of things you can look into there, a lot of things you can look into there. So what God is going to do in this case, he's going to send 12 judges to, over a span of those 325 years, to bring his people back each time that they go astray, and God he will. And God he commits them to basically slavery, like he hands his own people over to these other kings and does these things to try and shake them.

Speaker 1 10:35

Prove a point.

Speaker 2 10:38

Prove a point. Yeah, and each time he does the same thing, he'll sell his people, hand them over to this king. They'll come back, they'll listen, they'll do what they need to do. Then they fall out again, so he'll sell them to a different king, vice versa. So the Israelites are always under the thumb of a different ruler over the span of 325 years ruler over the span of 325 years.

Speaker 2 11:02

Okay, and so he keeps sending all these judges or saviors in to you know, release them again, to free them, to bring them back into his fold, and each time it's almost the same result.

Speaker 1 11:14

Now was Sisera one of those.

Speaker 2 11:16

Yes, and Sisera is the one that Deborah is going to confront. Yes, yes, and Sisera is the one that Deborah is going to confront. Yes, she will be. I believe she is the third. Let me get over there. Yeah, I think she is the third.

Speaker 1 11:35

The third judge? Yeah, I believe so.

Speaker 3 11:38

The third period Okay.

Speaker 2 11:40

Yeah, and I got a little bit. I dug up a little bit about Deborah. She is one of the most influential women in the Bible. She's a prophet and a judge and she is the only one, other than Samuel and perhaps Moses, that can claim that title.

Speaker 1 12:01

Really. So she's up there yeah.

Speaker 2 12:02

Yeah, yeah, Especially for being a woman. Uh, that says a lot. Um, her story is only in the book of judges. You won't, I don't believe you'll find her anywhere else. Um, some people think she was a wife. Some people think that, uh, that was just when they call her wife. It was just a term for being the mother of her people.

Speaker 1 12:23

Oh OK.

Speaker 2 12:25

So they're not too sure on that. Deborah in Hebrew means bee, like a bumblebee, because they believe this. Just as bees follow their leader in a swarm, the Jewish people follow the sages and prophets to teach them, and also a bee sting can be quite painful painful, but also to bees honey is sweet. So it's that combination of power and benevolence, or just, you know, benevolence, that makes makes that combination for for how she is going to rule. So yeah, she's a judge, she's a warrior, she's a poet, a prophet and a singer and a songwriter man. So she's got quite the resume.

Speaker 1 13:07

I was about to say yeah, good resume.

Speaker 2 13:10

Um, and she's described as uh, she has, it's the tree of deborah, which is a palm tree and she's always sitting under this tree and I often wonder like, okay, how did she get? How did she get that title? You got the israelites, who you know they're not following the line, they're not doing what they're supposed to be doing.

Speaker 1 13:31

So she probably just sat down one day and was like I'm tired.

Speaker 2 13:34

Yeah, I'm done, I'm tired of this, yeah yeah, so I'm just gonna stay here and yeah maybe um, but it. It is a rare thing to where a woman gains power.

Speaker 1 13:45

Especially during that time. Yeah.

Speaker 2 13:47

And this would happen in Egypt. You know there would be a few female pharaohs.

Speaker 1 13:50

Yes.

Speaker 2 13:52

Interestingly enough, the Egyptians at some point would try to erase all record of their women prophets because they were embarrassed by it. Because almost the same thing happens like the egyptians lose so much of their power and prestige in the world that a woman has to come in to take over. Yeah, imagine that and so. But then when they build back up and the men start to become kings again and kind, of take, take over.

Speaker 2 14:19

It's like they tried to erase that part of the history from the books, so that's kind of interesting um so then, like cleopatra, why wasn't hers erased? You know what I mean? Yeah, well, it's just people most people don't realize that she wasn't egyptian, she was a greek, oh yeah yeah, there we go.

Speaker 1 14:36

Yeah, learn something new.

Speaker 2 14:37

So yeah, I don't know um watch a history channel I do, but it's been a while so.

Speaker 1 14:44

I guess I don't actively right now.

Speaker 2 14:49

So, yeah, so she would sit on it and sometimes I think, okay, she becomes who she becomes due to the fact that not only does she have a strong commitment to God, but for some reason people are drawn to her and when it's time for them to start complaining and whining and saying please help us, For some reason, she's the mother that you know is willing, is more or less willing, to start taking care of her people when the probably the strong men aren't coming forward.

Speaker 2 15:23

Yeah, they're not doing their jobs, so I'm thinking like well, maybe that's why she she gets to.

Speaker 1 15:29

Yeah, I can see that.

Speaker 2 15:31

Yeah. So of course, what's going to happen in that third period is, once again, the Lord. He's going to sell the Israelites into bondage once again, and he sells them to King Jabin J-A-B-I-N. So he was the king of Canaan and the commander of his army was Cicero.

Speaker 1 15:59

Yes.

Speaker 2 16:08

And it's deborah. Um who? What will she say she will finally give the command to?

Speaker 2 16:11

I believe it's barack yes and she will tell him go, take with you 10 000 men of naphtali and zebulon and lead the way to Mount Tabor. I will lure Cicera, the commander of Jovian's army, with his chariots and his troops to the quichon river and give him into your hands. Now, this is where and this this is very telling for what I just said brock says well, if you go with me, I'll go, but if you don't go with me, I ain't going do you know what this reminds me of?

Speaker 1 16:46

mulan, you know? Okay have you watched it?

Speaker 2 16:50

it's been a long time.

Speaker 1 16:52

Yeah, so, and not in all aspects, because Mulan starts out with I think it's, you know, chinese, like culture, and someone their army was coming to make dad go off to war and she didn't want. I think he just wasn't all like physically well, so she cuts off her hair and then goes to war and but it just like reminded me of I don't know for some reason. Yeah, because it, I it. It had like the 10 000 men and then 10 000 um, so it just kind of reminded me, even though it's not all the same so it's interesting, though, a lot of these old stories yeah they kind of do intertwine when you're looking at uh egyptian history or the babylonians or the greeks and rome's.

Speaker 2 17:37

It's like they'll have very similar stories, yeah.

Speaker 1 17:41

So you wonder, do they all take.

Speaker 2 17:43

You know, tip the hat to deborah right and all these things come back yeah, yeah that's interesting.

Speaker 1 17:48

But yeah, you're right um so sorry he was like basically, only if you go with me yeah, he's just basically like well, yeah, I'll go if you hold my hand.

Speaker 2 17:57

Yes, yes, you know but I ain't going by myself, I just you know so. He has no confidence whatsoever in himself, his people or god.

Speaker 1 18:05

Yeah, so it's all on her and she's like all right, fine, she's all right, and and and she could have.

Speaker 2 18:11

She could have been the type of person to be like no, I'm the leader, you're going get the job done. She of person to be like no, I'm the leader You're going Get the job done. She was willing to be humble and say okay, yes. You know I'll go. I'll be a warrior too, I'm not just going to sit back.

Speaker 1 18:24

But she warns him.

Speaker 2 18:25

But yeah, and what does she? Do you remember?

Speaker 1 18:28

what she tells him, basically, that a woman will take all credit. And guys don't like that, you know, and um, but I'm, sure he had no idea what she meant and maybe he thought and maybe she didn't know, maybe she didn't even she didn't know yeah, but maybe he just thought oh, you're speaking to yourself to yourself you'll get all the credit.

Speaker 2 18:46

And he probably thought, well, I'm fine with that right as long as I come back alive, I don't care yeah that wasn't the case, though yeah, um, and and it's so cool because, um, what they'll do is they start out from north of jerusalem and they go across the jordan river and they started on a hill right, well, they go all the way up oh, okay, they go up the mountain which is mount taver, and they go all the way up and it's like they swing around when they're at the top of the mountain the mountain.

Speaker 2 19:14

So they're at the top, and so their backs are to the Sea of Galilee.

Speaker 1 19:19

Okay.

Speaker 2 19:20

And it's when you know Cicero, he's got all these chariots, you know all these men, but guess what? They got? To go uphill.

Speaker 1 19:29

Yeah.

Speaker 2 19:35

And if anybody knows anything about military strategy, you do not want to be the one at the bottom of the hill having to attack the top of the hill. Yeah, and you got to wonder she knew what she was doing? She knew she was outnumbered?

Speaker 1 19:43

Right.

Speaker 2 19:45

And his forces were much greater. But she knew, standing on top of that mountain she would have all the advantage.

Speaker 1 19:51

Not only the physical. Only you know, not only like the physical, I don't know just your physical, like health going up incline. That's obviously a disadvantage. But also, with them on top, they can see everything, they know when they're coming. Yeah, they can look straight down on you with a better.

Speaker 2 20:09

yeah, yeah, they know what direction they're coming from.

Speaker 1 20:12

Yeah, I mean, imagine all the horses trying to get up the mountain, and if it's muddy, them cherries ain't doing you much good. Yeah, no yeah.

Speaker 3 20:19

No yeah.

Speaker 2 20:20

It's probably muddy and rocky?

Speaker 3 20:22

No yeah, Maybe a few trees oh yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2 20:25

Yeah, can you imagine, right, I mean I the heights of Mount Tabor, but I'm sure it was pretty significant Even so, you know.

Speaker 1 20:37

Well, do you know what a mountain has to be to be considered a mountain? That's a great question. I feel like it's like 2,000 feet or more, because I've gone to Pikes Peak and it was like 14,138. Maybe I don't know, but I think whenever Did you go in no summertime or wintertime?

Speaker 3 20:53

It was summer, but Was there snow on the mountain?

Speaker 1 20:56

Yeah, so when we started at the bottom I had a short sleeve Been there, done that Pants. I had some pants and then, once I grew up top, I'm like whoo whoo whoo Yep, Been there, done that.

Speaker 1 21:06

How many feet is considered a mountain? Oh, however, a common guideline is that a mountain rises at least 1,000 feet or more above its surrounding area. I will say there is an app that you can use. I think it's called AllTrails and they have certain trails around here, like trails everywhere, but I did one in Tappan and it's like in the tappan park, and it said I think my elevation was like 1 312 feet at one point oh, you was on a mountain apparently, but we consider that like it's a hill, a hill right you know yeah, so yeah there's mountains in West Virginia, yeah, and in Virginia.

Speaker 1 21:54

Oh yeah. Oh yeah, but yeah, yeah, so yeah, going uphill with your horse on that.

Speaker 2 22:02

Well, and they got it says here that he had Cicero, had 900 iron chariots and of course all the men.

Speaker 3 22:11

So you get two men per chariot.

Speaker 2 22:13

Yeah, usually.

Speaker 3 22:16

Two horses, so that's a lot of weight to be pulling up there. Plus, you got all your armament. You got all your arrows, your bows, your lances, all your rations. Yeah, all that paraphernalia, yeah.

Speaker 2 22:32

You're toting a your rations. Yeah, all that paraphernalia.

Speaker 3 22:34

Yeah, You're toting a pile of weight. Yeah, you know you talk about that. You know you think about a lot of the hills during the Civil War. 99% of the time, the person that was on the top of the hill won the skirmisher battle.

Speaker 2 22:54

Yeah, that was everything I mean. To hold the ridge, you know, to hold the high ground, so Deborah knew what she was doing. Yeah, this is nothing new, I mean yeah. Yeah, so she knew exactly where to place herself in that army. Because I think it says she only had like 10,000. So yeah, there was 10,000 men that followed Barack and Deborah.

Speaker 1 23:18

So yeah, Did she have?

Speaker 3 23:18

any chariots.

Speaker 2 23:19

It doesn't say. I don't think it says, I think it just says men.

Speaker 1 23:22

Yeah, I didn't read anything about.

Speaker 3 23:25

Well, that was her advantage too.

Speaker 2 23:27

Right, yeah, she didn't have to travel. Yeah, they traveled light, they didn't have to worry about. That's true, yeah yeah, they only had to feed themselves. I mean because if you're, if you're feeding the horse one horse per day, I forget how many gallons of water I was about to say, though, just the amount of water it's a lot per horse and and hay and fodder and uh-huh it's a lot of you know, yeah you got like the tools again you gotta, you gotta be you gotta be carrying all that with you

Speaker 3 23:55

you're right because them horses go you're done.

Speaker 1 23:58

That's another thing. You're done, yeah, especially if you've only ever you better have two pair of sandals.

Speaker 3 24:03

Yeah, yeah, borrow the horseshoes off yeah, you're gonna, you're gonna be, you're to be hoofing it, hoofing it.

Speaker 1 24:16

Beth is not coming. She's just now leaving work.

Speaker 3 24:20

What time is it?

Speaker 1 24:22

6.25.

Speaker 3 24:24

Oh Well, that's you know. It is kind of foolish for her to drive out here.

Speaker 1 24:29

Yeah, and she seems kind of flustered at her job right now.

Speaker 3 24:33

Yeah, she's having a rough time with it for some reason.

Defeating Sisera and Jael's Actions

Speaker 1 24:36

Well, because everyone's short-staffed, and I think she's getting that too.

Speaker 3 24:41

Oh yes.

Speaker 2 24:43

It's a problem everywhere.

Speaker 3 24:45

You haven't heard the latest, have you?

Speaker 1 24:46

With her, or you, no me.

Speaker 3 24:48

Huh, I go down to get my check Thursday and I get laid off. What, yeah? I go down to get my check Thursday and I get laid off. What, yeah, really yeah, you don't have any work. Does that happen a lot?

Speaker 1 25:00

Not really Really.

Speaker 3 25:03

But have you tried to sign up for unemployment?

Speaker 2 25:06

lately. No, I bet that's funny.

Speaker 3 25:08

Oh, my word. But I will say Sometimes Jesus will go out the door leave me.

Speaker 1 25:16

Well, I had to sign up for it during COVID and that was a disaster. I did it one time in my life, yeah, and it was very short period.

Speaker 2 25:24

But, yeah, being on the phone just waiting on them people.

Speaker 1 25:34

Well, it took me a day, almost two days being on hold, and you got to do certain things every week.

Speaker 3 25:50

And it wasn't so bad. But I finally get to where I can start filling out the, and I fill it all out. Come down, push the button, continue. It comes up up. My social security number is not right. Oh, I went ballistic and so I, so I get on the phone. Well, we'll call you back in 80-some minutes, okay.

Speaker 1 26:17

Never trust that.

Speaker 3 26:18

Never, never they never, call back.

Speaker 1 26:21

If you'd like a call back, press 1. Nope.

Speaker 3 26:23

Call again, I call again. Oh, they go through this whole rigmarole.

Speaker 1 26:29

Mm-hmm yeah.

Speaker 3 26:31

And then I call again. Oh, it'll be 20, 26 minutes, so my wife sets a timer on that. As soon as the 26 minutes is up, I want to phone again. Well, by that time they were closed.

Speaker 1 26:47

Oh.

Speaker 3 26:51

So I finally, at about quarter after eight Tuesday morning, I get some the wait time is 10 minutes. You can push the number and we'll call you back, or you can stay on the line with push this.

Speaker 1 27:11

Stay on the line.

Speaker 3 27:13

So the lady that I talked to talked to. I mean, she was very, very helpful, and what really really messed me up was we changed emails and the email that they had on file yeah was different than the one that I put in. Oh, it was old email, so, but we got everything straight. The only thing is I had to send them a proof of.

Speaker 1 27:43

Like residency where?

Speaker 3 27:44

you live. I sent them my W-2 and I had to send them a photocopy of my license Because they knew it. Because she says, do you still have your Class A? I said, yeah, so I mean, but anyway, it's all handled now.

Speaker 1 28:05

I can't remember what I had to do that for Were you doing something? I had to send two forms of.

Speaker 3 28:13

Yeah, hopefully Do you have a passport.

Speaker 1 28:16

That's what I was about to say. Maybe it was my passport. I think it was, yeah.

Speaker 3 28:21

I've never had a passport Mine's expired, is it yeah?

Speaker 1 28:26

My friend. You know how they have the passport books.

Speaker 2 28:30

It's like a card. Well, now it can be right on your license, can it not?

Speaker 1 28:34

I think so no no, I don't, I don't think so well, the reason I know about this is because she lost her id, like last I don't know june, and she's like, well, I, I have my passport card so that it is a valid id and and I'm like, you have a card for it, like, and it's not her license, I don't know.

Speaker 3 28:55

Did you have a book?

Speaker 1 28:56

Mine's a book. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 3 28:58

And when you go into country they stamp the book.

Speaker 1 29:00

Yeah, that was pretty neat yeah.

Speaker 3 29:09

It's like when we went from Germany to Czechoslovakia.

Speaker 2 29:12

They had to stop at a checkpoint. Give you the evil eyes.

Speaker 1 29:14

They stamp it yeah.

Speaker 3 29:19

That's like going on a military base. So even like when I go with my son, I get to show my driver's license.

Speaker 2 29:31

Yeah, Well, it's good they don't take any chances, yeah.

Speaker 3 29:34

Yeah, yeah. Well, it's good they don't take any chances, yeah.

Speaker 1 29:37

Yeah, yeah, I think I have heard that for all the military bases. Right yeah, mm-hmm.

Speaker 3 29:44

Well, some of them Now. Like when he was stationed in Georgia, I went down there. When I left here to go down there, it was, like I'll say, 5 o'clock and I didn't get down here until like 2, 3 o'clock in the morning and I just drove around around her house.

Speaker 1 30:05

So it might not, they might not have like 24 hours.

Speaker 3 30:08

But the police was kind of watching Gotcha yeah.

Speaker 2 30:18

Anyway, back to the subject, back to I got messed up. Yeah. So, deb, she's up on, uh, mount tabor and uh, she's the one that gives the order to barack. She says go, this is the day the lord has given cesara into your hands. Has not the lord gone ahead of you? So it's almost like she's saying that, like to give him confidence like you know, just just trust in the process yes we're going downhill and don't think the lord's leading the way, so just yeah, right, uh.

Speaker 2 30:44

So barack went down mount tabor, followed by 10 000 men. At barack's advance, the lord routed cesara and all his chariots and army by the sword, and Cicera abandoned his chariot and fled on foot.

Speaker 1 30:57

Not to mention his chariot, the whole entire brigade basically, right Um and it seems like Brock does a pretty good job.

Speaker 2 31:07

He pursues the chariots, the army uh, I can't even pronounce uh Horasheth Hagowim, but he pursues him all the way. All the troops of Caesarea fell by the sword. Not a man was left.

Speaker 1 31:22

So it is a clear-cut 100% victory Right now, right Caesarea.

Speaker 2 31:28

Yeah, caesarea, he's still out there 99.9999%, he's still out there. Of course he just had to make a run.

Speaker 1 31:33

Yeah, noticera, okay, he's still out there. 99.9999%, he's still out there. Of course, he just had to make a run. Yeah, not a man left.

Speaker 2 31:37

Cicera, however, fled on foot to the tent of. Can you pronounce her?

Speaker 1 31:43

name Jael.

Speaker 2 31:43

Jael, there you go the wife of Heber the Kenite, because there were friendly relations between the Jobian king of Hazor and the clan of Heber the Kenite. Now relations between the job being king of hazor and the clan of haber the canine. Now that's another thing too. About the israelites is what they start doing.

Speaker 2 31:57

They start worshiping other gods and they start intermarriage which god does not approve of as well so, um, so you got a lot of people that know each other on different sides of the fence there. So jael went out to meet cesara and said to him come my lord, come right in, don't be afraid. And of course he knows these people, so he doesn't have any fear, he doesn't think anything's up. So he enters her tent and she covers him up and he says I'm thirsty, please give me some water. So she opened up a skin of milk, gave him the drink and covered him up again. And so then he tells her to stand in the doorway of the tent and if someone comes by and asks about me or is anyone here, you say no. So Jael has other plans. She is loyal to the Israelites and to God.

Speaker 1 32:52

Yeah.

Speaker 2 32:53

So I don't know if he falls asleep, I don't know what the situation is. That's what I was getting at, but she is skillful enough that she picks up a tent peg and a hammer, and went quietly to him while he lay fast asleep, exhausted.

Speaker 3 33:05

Was he a vampire?

Speaker 2 33:07

Yes, this is the first, first chronicled event of vampires. But then now she drove the peg through his temple into the ground. And now he's dead, and he died, so he must have been laying on the ground, maybe head on a pillow, and he drove it straight through his temple into the ground. So that's pretty.

Speaker 1 33:30

You know what, michael, if you're listening, I feel like you should have put Jael in your message. You know like this strong woman.

Speaker 3 33:39

She don't take nothing from anybody.

Speaker 2 33:42

Don't make her mad, no, and to send her through on one strike.

Speaker 1 33:45

Yeah, yeah.

The Song of Deborah

Speaker 2 33:47

Yeah, so. So Brock comes in pursuit of Cicera and Jael went out to meet him and of course she's going to reveal uh cesara to him. Um, and so barack walks in there and there's cesara with his, you know, head to the ground. Uh with the, uh with the tent peg it was on that day that God subdued Jabin, the Canaanite king, before the Israelites, and of course, the Israelites once again grew stronger and, for the moment, take back their, take back God's kingdom.

Speaker 1 34:28

Did you read anything about them singing the song of Deborah afterwards?

Speaker 2 34:32

Yeah, so that's in Judges 5.

Speaker 1 34:34

Okay.

Speaker 2 34:36

So she actually writes a song about the whole experience. So, okay, so she was the one who wrote it, yeah, and they say this is in the 12th century BC and it may be one of the earliest examples of Hebrew poetry or song.

Speaker 2 34:52

So, yeah, so it's a one of them. I think I highlighted one, a part of the prose, and it says in the days of shamgar, son of aneth, in the days of jael, the roads were abandoned, travelers looked to winding paths, village life in israel ceased. So it does. You can get a sense from that that she did take on that motherly role yes, when you know, these people clearly were not going to take care of themselves, had no sense of leadership whatsoever right and, for whatever reason, the men just were not going to step up and get the job done.

Speaker 2 35:52

So, yeah, that says a lot about her.

Speaker 1 35:56

The way I look at them during that time period is like the generational trauma thing where they're like, oh well, I come from this.

Speaker 2 36:03

It just seems like nothing ever changes. I know we're still doing that, yeah.

Speaker 1 36:08

Like how we talk about, how people come from nothing and people think. People think, well, there's no hope for me, because you know my parents were this way well that, if anything, that should make you want to be better right like that's the way I'm looking at it.

Speaker 3 36:22

You know what I mean. You have to change your own life.

Speaker 2 36:24

Yeah, nobody's gonna do it for you or people is always whining and complaining instead of instead of doing something.

Speaker 1 36:31

Yeah, it was me, you know you don.

Speaker 2 36:33

You don't want to put forth the effort, yeah, and all you want to do is you're not really following God. You're not praising God, right, but you want to blame God because your life isn't where you want it to be you can't understand why he doesn't ever come into your life and make it better. So if all you're ever doing is pointing your finger at God, that's not a relationship. That's not a healthy relationship to be in.

Speaker 1 36:57

Like Michael says, like if you're not tithing correctly, you're not under the. What is it? You would know what I'm talking about. You're not under the full, like Full covenant yeah. Yeah, yeah, you're not. Yeah, yeah, yeah, you're not. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2 37:17

Right, well, you're being half, if you're, if you're always being half hearted, which I wrote down, some questions and thoughts, but yeah if you're always being half hearted in your relationship with God, that's what you're going to get in return. He's not going to abandon you. Your life might be okay. You're not. It's not that he would ever say a term for me before. I never knew you.

Speaker 1 37:41

Right.

Speaker 2 37:41

But think about how much better your life could be and how. Not that we're looking for advantages to having a relationship with God, but just think about the fruits that can come from a better relationship with him. As to just, you're only part of the relationship. When you want to be, when you're looking out for yourself, yep, which is kind of what the israelites are doing all right yeah, they get everything they want. They get all set back up again and then and they get lacks of days and just kind of it's like when you do have a, do my own thing.

Speaker 2 38:12

It's like when you have a son that just can't get it together and you send him out into the world and all of a sudden he blows all his money and he makes you know his landlord upset and loses his job. What's he do? He wants to come back home, live with mom and dad.

Speaker 2 38:26

So mom and dad and their loving hearts take him back in, get them all built up again. Yeah, finally they push him out, he gets another job, does the same thing, come on back again, again, and you see that all the time oh yeah, people are you know this again, this is human. Nature has not changed. And no, since the beginning of time, people are people and unfortunately, uh, that will probably never change, but fortunately, god will never change right and as he shows and judges.

Speaker 2 38:54

it doesn't matter how many times the Israelites screw up and no matter how many times he sells them into bondage and finds a new ruler for him. He's like okay, well, you don't want to serve under me, so okay.

Speaker 1 39:08

Yeah.

Speaker 2 39:09

If you think I'm so bad.

Speaker 1 39:10

Yeah, watch this.

Speaker 3 39:12

Try this guy out for a little while, see how it goes and when you're ready, I'll be ready, yeah, when you come back.

Speaker 2 39:18

Anytime, I'll be ready to love you again.

Speaker 3 39:20

It's kind of like changing jobs every two or three weeks or every two or three years. You know I don't like this job now, so you know, okay, well, that sounds pretty good, so we'll go over and do that one. Then you know you're there for two or three weeks or two or three years, and it's the same thing. You know you, you've got to.

Speaker 2 39:39

You've got to make it. What you want to make, yeah, and I can tell you is in being in management. If somebody comes to me and I look at the resume and they've got five or six jobs in the last two years oh yeah, I'm setting that aside.

Speaker 3 39:49

Yeah, I'm not even looking at it. Yeah, because you, you know, you know for a fact that they're not going to yeah, you know they're going to do the same thing to you.

Speaker 1 39:56

Yeah, yeah, absolutely you can tell their work.

Speaker 2 39:59

ethic is not A temporary fix. Yeah.

Speaker 1 40:03

They're not mature. That's exactly what they're looking for, yeah.

Speaker 2 40:06

Yep, just until they can get enough money again to get by for a while. Yeah.

Speaker 3 40:11

Do this?

Speaker 2 40:12

Yeah, and I like the last line of her song. She says so may all your enemies perish, but may they who love you, meaning God, be like the sun when it rises in its strength. And it says the land had peace for 40 years. So for 40 years they were good, they were good.

Speaker 1 40:34

And then the fourth period would come along, and then the fourth judge comes along, it'll start all over again. Yeah, then the fourth period would come along, and then the fourth judge comes along, it'll start all over again, which is a completely different story.

Speaker 2 40:40

Yeah, yeah, so Debra, that's a pretty cool story, I think. I think she deserves you know.

Speaker 1 40:47

She deserves this podcast. Yeah, she got a pretty good resume yeah. You know I'd hire her. Yeah, exactly, I would hire her anytime LinkedIn, she'll take the initiative. I'm thinking of Yelp. We Yelp reviewed Jesus, I think, last week or the week before. Now we're Yelp reviewing Deb Debra little Debbie we forgot our little Debbie's.

Speaker 2 41:17

I was at Menards and they had the strawberry shortcake rolls on the shelf, so I snuck one in the cart. My wife's like all right.

Speaker 3 41:24

So I took a picture of it and sent it to Michael.

Speaker 2 41:26

Those are so good, I know so I ate one as soon as I got to the car.

Speaker 1 41:29

Yeah.

Speaker 2 41:30

Yeah. The bottom, so I'm walking into Walmart eating strawberry rolls, mar them. So I'm walking into Walmart eating strawberry rolls.

Speaker 1 41:35

Margie's like what are you doing? I'm good, I had to try it. You know what my favorite is about that? Like getting all of it off of that.

Speaker 2 41:42

The cardboard piece, the paper, yeah, Sometimes it's fun to try to just peel it.

Speaker 1 41:48

Yes.

Speaker 2 41:50

Peel it back, unroll it, unroll it.

Speaker 1 41:52

Yeah, I like just taking my teeth to it. It's soft, it's fine.

Speaker 2 41:57

Yeah, I could eat that whole box in one sitting.

Speaker 3 42:01

Yeah, it's dangerous, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2 42:04

They're good.

Speaker 1 42:05

Yeah, do you have any questions?

Speaker 2 42:07

All right, so yeah, so I got some thoughts, questions. I'll just shoot them out there and you guys can answer them. Okay, you guys can answer them. Or you know? Uh, okay, so can you live a productive life, living with partial sin? Is it up to us to decide when sin is tolerable and when it is time to repent?

Speaker 1 42:29

Okay, so let's take the first part of it and digest that. What was the first part Are?

Speaker 2 42:40

you listening to me, can you? You? Can you live a productive life, living with partial sin?

Speaker 1 42:43

no, I feel like that would be me kind of talking about the like being under his grace, umbrella thing, like if you're not living.

Questions About Sin and Repentance

Speaker 2 42:53

The question boils down to is can you look at your life and say I've got my sin under control? I know what my weaknesses are and I've got it under control, so therefore it'll be all right, yeah, but you don't have it under control if you're still doing it, right?

Speaker 1 43:09

Right.

Speaker 3 43:10

Yeah, Right, but you can have the viewpoint of yeah, you know, I don't you know I don't got that straight now.

Speaker 2 43:13

But you know I don't, you know I don't got that straight now, but you know what I got everything else going for me.

Speaker 1 43:17

So but I'm a good person, I'll just. I'll just live with that one and never work on it?

Speaker 2 43:22

can you, can you expect to live a productive life and have a good relationship with god if you have that mindset?

Speaker 1 43:28

you shouldn't no, I don't think so I feel like if your heart is where it needs to be with jesus, then you shouldn't feel right about that, right yeah?

Speaker 2 43:40

Okay, so then it is not up to us to decide when sin is tolerable, correct or when it is time to repent, so we should be always looking to. God for the word for that guidance, not saying, well, I, I'll get to it, I'll get to it someday you know when I, when I feel like I'm ready to give that up, yeah, I'll do it.

Speaker 2 44:04

No, because it's never, that's never gonna. And I guess the main point of that is, if you expect it to ever get better with that attitude, like it'll go away on its own, like I'll outgrow it, you know it'll be okay, I don't think you can ever expect to get rid of it. I think without god's word you're, it will be part of you for the rest of your life?

Speaker 2 44:28

I don't think you'll ever have a chance to overcome. Overcome that, and I think that's what the israelites were doing, in a sense, like yeah, we love God, we're his people, we're his chosen people. So therefore, well, we, we can, we can let loose, we can do what we want to do, because we know he still, we know we know he's down.

Speaker 1 44:47

He still loves us. Yeah, because we're the chosen people and sometimes that's what these young people do. Chosen one yeah.

Speaker 2 44:53

I know I can go and do this, that because mom and dad still love me and they'll take me back. They'll take me exactly yeah, so you live on the edge all the time because you just you. You know you're taking advantage of god's love and that's something you, you can't do. No, yeah, and you know, and that's not what devra's doing, that's not what she's trying to teach.

Speaker 2 45:11

No, not at all uh, what are the signs of decline in a person who is clinging to bad habits and not giving their life and purpose to God?

Speaker 1 45:26

what are some signs?

Speaker 3 45:28

if they do come and meet and meet the Lord, but then they start just kind of slowly backslide. They're not continually choosing to be in His presence, they want to be in the worldly presence and have fun. But you can have fun in the worldly presence you know and have fun, you know, yeah, but you know you can have fun in the Lord you know, I mean we have volleyball games, we have a lot of you know, we have bonfires, you know.

Speaker 2 46:09

This Dodgeball Sid yeah dodgeball.

Speaker 3 46:12

Yeah, I never did hear how was the dodgeball it was good, brutal.

Speaker 2 46:17

I only played one game, but it was, yeah, brutal.

Speaker 3 46:22

A lot of people here.

Speaker 1 46:24

Yeah, Pretty decent, yeah. So the Methodist church, that pastor, he's got what three now that he's got Midville?

Speaker 3 46:32

Oh yeah.

Speaker 1 46:33

Newport and Yerkesville, but they brought their youth group and they had some strong boys on there yeah, they had some big boys.

Speaker 3 46:41

It's all farm country, so you know, how them farm boys are.

Speaker 1 46:44

Oh yeah, I mean I pulled in and I'm like who's got these F-350s out here? I mean, I think there was At least one of them was an F-350.

Speaker 3 46:53

Yeah, well, that's good.

Speaker 2 46:55

yeah, it's good, you know this took one right in the face and sitting in the stands yeah, who did?

Speaker 1 46:59

sis, she had her head down and then um steph stephanie, her little son oh yeah to the face.

Speaker 2 47:08

I'm like, oh man, yeah, you gotta have your head on a swivel, even if you're sitting, yeah, on the sideline, yeah yeah, everyone was like where's Cooper?

Speaker 1 47:16

I'm like, well, first off I think Michael said strongly discouraged to bring them, probably because they might get hit. And yeah, I was like he's fine, he can be with his grandma for a few hours, that way I can be fully present and playing in my dodgeball game well, that's good.

Speaker 3 47:37

Yeah, it's good to fellowship with other churches and youth. Yeah, and I'm sure most of it from the other churches were youth, weren't they yeah?

Speaker 1 47:49

Yeah, and even like the pastor got up and played.

Speaker 3 47:52

Oh did he.

Speaker 1 47:53

I don't know if he played the whole time, but he played a lot. He played a lot of the time. Yeah, that's good.

Speaker 2 48:00

Yeah, that's good. That was a good turnout. Yeah, should we ever expect to become comfortable in our relationship with God and decide we have nothing left to fulfill His will? Is it ever okay to be selfish and desire something not of the will or the purpose of God?

Speaker 1 48:20

We should never be okay with that, because he can always use you.

Speaker 3 48:24

Yeah.

Speaker 1 48:28

To any potential.

Speaker 2 48:30

I feel like if Michael was here, he would be trying to be passing an old joke along to the audience right now. That's what I was thinking. Yeah, I'm like, insert old joke along to the audience right now.

Speaker 1 48:36

That's what I was thinking yeah, yeah, yeah, I'm like insert old joke here, yeah. So yeah, we should never feel that we've got to an age where you know we are beyond God's purpose, or even the opposite. Like never too young, Like I'm thinking the teenagers you know, like even Mal, Like well, I'm too young, I don't have enough you know enough experience or something. Never too young, you're never too young, never too old. It's always the right time oh yeah, well, there was a.

Speaker 2 49:06

I'm glad you said that because there was a quote um, it's never the wrong time to do the right thing I like that who's quotes it?

Speaker 1 49:18

like that bros that was in.

Speaker 2 49:24

I was reading articles about her and it was uh, it was. I can't remember where I found it, but I just wrote it down.

Speaker 1 49:30

Oh, that's pretty good I think I saw something about that when I was reading up on her, not exactly those, those words, but kind of it was basically stating, like you know, she was taking all odds because she was a woman who was in leadership. That never happened, let alone going into battle, and you know, like that also never happened.

Speaker 2 49:50

So yeah, yeah, when you think about it, the gravity of the situation and everything that she took was willing to take on, yeah yeah.

Speaker 1 49:57

Yeah.

Speaker 2 49:59

She had some guts. So many people ask if God is real, why does he allow all this suffering? Why does he allow all this suffering? Is it possible God is still using the example in Judges to bring us closer to him and yet we are still choosing our own way? So if you look at what's happening in Judges, you can look to okay, you know, again the Israelites are. They get to the point where they're like, oh god, save us. You know we're sick and we're hungry and we're out of sorts, and you know we're, we're in trouble, we're in danger, we've been taken over, we're all slaves you know, please help us yeah, I don't, I mean so is.

Speaker 2 50:55

could it be, could it be still, that part of why we have so much suffering in the world is because we have not learned?

Speaker 3 51:03

Yeah, nobody wants to submit.

Speaker 2 51:05

Yeah, you don't want to submit to the Lord If we do when so much of the world will not submit to his word, then the effect of that is going to be that there is going to be pain and suffering in the world?

Speaker 1 51:18

There's no way around it.

Speaker 2 51:19

When you have so many people outside the will of God, chaos is going to reign.

Speaker 1 51:24

Yeah.

Speaker 2 51:24

And of course the enemy only uses that all the greater to cause that. So that was the first time I was. You know, because you hear people say that all the time.

Speaker 1 51:33

All the time.

Speaker 2 51:34

If you could list the top five defenses for somebody who doesn't believe in God, I'd say that's the top three. It's on there every time.

Speaker 1 51:43

And I like to like someone I kind of brought not that, not that it was a vague description of that about what was going on in my life and was like I just don't understand. Like it happens all the time it's every few months, every few years like it and she's like well, it's not his will, but he turns in all things too good to make it his plan.

Speaker 1 52:06

You know, like all of this stuff actually isn't all of his doing, you know what I mean, but he is going to turn it all for good, yeah.

Speaker 2 52:14

But he is going to turn it all for good yeah. You know what I mean. Yeah, yeah, sometimes I look at you're not under the will of God.

Speaker 3 52:20

Mm-hmm.

Speaker 2 52:23

So he's more or less he's giving you, he's putting you in the driver's seat, so to speak.

Speaker 1 52:30

Yeah.

Speaker 2 52:33

And controlling events.

Speaker 1 52:34

Yes, that normally would.

Speaker 2 52:36

If you were under the will of God, those things would not take place.

Speaker 1 52:39

Right yeah.

Speaker 2 52:40

But because you're living that way and you refuse to even give it a go. Yeah, that's, true you just you know you can't help it. Just the sin and the chaos of the world is a direct result of that and he's going to use all that again, as he does time and time again in Judges.

Speaker 1 53:00

He's like okay.

Speaker 2 53:01

Well, you know I've done this before.

Speaker 1 53:02

Let's do it again, forty years later. Forty years later, here we go again.

Speaker 2 53:06

Who do I got left that I can?

Speaker 1 53:07

hand you over to.

Speaker 3 53:10

He's doing the same thing and hoping for a different result. The result is the same. That's the definition of insanity.

Speaker 2 53:17

Yes, yes, he loves people that much yeah he definitely had patience, yeah love and patience. They're his people. That's the thing. He makes it clear that they're his people and he's never going to let them get to the point to complete extinction.

Speaker 1 53:34

Right.

The Importance of Giving God Credit

Speaker 2 53:34

You know, but he'll let him sit and just just the right amount of suffering and pleading to where?

Speaker 1 53:41

yeah, where, yeah, he's like, okay, you know you'll come begging.

Speaker 2 53:45

You'll do. You'll do what you're supposed to do so yeah yeah, that's right. Um, oh, here's an interesting one. How important is it to have personal conviction? Is it necessary to have our sins pointed out to us by a higher authority? So, if you think about deborah, yeah you know those, without those, people would just continue to have to have a higher authority whether it be your pastor, whether it be just somebody you know that has Lord, the Lord, in their life and wants to. You know um.

Speaker 1 54:47

I think it is important, because then I think you would almost get big headed or um, like if you didn't have it, you would almost let things slide more, or not being held accountable. Yes, yeah, like you don't have an accountability partner in a way. I know that's not what it is, you know, but yeah well, it, it is, it is it is in a sense, yeah, in a sense that it is, you know, accountability partner you know, accountability partner.

Speaker 3 55:19

Yeah, I mean, you need somebody to tell you. Hey, maybe I back off just a little bit on that.

Speaker 2 55:25

Or for somebody to say hey, I think that TV needs to be a little higher, a little to the left, a little to the right, yeah, or it needs rehung yeah.

Speaker 3 55:35

I'm going to get rehung.

Speaker 1 55:39

With that cat right, that's a full wraparound, yeah.

Speaker 3 55:46

Yeah, yeah, yeah yeah.

Speaker 2 55:48

Can you give an example of a time when you decided to repent and God placed people in your life to help lead the way?

Speaker 3 55:57

Hmm, I think when I got saved, you know he—.

Speaker 2 56:07

Was there a certain person that kind of came along and pushed that?

Speaker 3 56:12

Actually it was a CD. I think— who was it? Oh, shoot, it was someone that was at the church.

Speaker 1 56:27

Oh okay, who burned CDs a lot?

Speaker 3 56:30

No, they didn't burn CD, it was, it was a performer. Oh okay, my wife had bought the CD.

Speaker 1 56:38

Uh-huh.

Speaker 3 56:42

And I was doing dishes.

Speaker 1 56:44

So she had it on.

Speaker 3 56:46

Well, no, she wasn't even home.

Speaker 1 56:47

Oh, okay, okay.

Speaker 3 56:48

And I was listening to it. But then I started coming to church and I got saved on Easter Sunday. I don't think you was ever over at high school, was he Mm-mm? But yeah, we was at the high school and we was over there for a while and we was at the old Methodist church beside the police station for a while.

Speaker 1 57:12

Mm-hmm.

Speaker 3 57:12

We was up on the corner where the-.

Speaker 1 57:14

The corner. Yeah, the food pantry area.

Speaker 3 57:17

By the food pantry, and then we were out here. So you figure out how many years that was and that's how many years I've been saved. You can ask your grandma. Well, I don't know. I don't think she started coming until she was out here, yeah and then that was it was.

Speaker 2 57:41

It was later you'd ask your Aunt, marty yeah, yeah, just saw her a minute well I can say I know I'm glad when I decided to return to church, that it was Florence. Florence yeah it was there because Florence, yeah, it was there because, yeah, that was a major because I had a lot of misgivings about myself, number one, but also two, trusting another person with what I had gone through.

Speaker 1 58:12

Yeah, with your heart.

Speaker 2 58:16

With my heart, my testimony, all those things, and she was just incredible. Just the right, right place, right time. Yeah, um yeah.

Speaker 3 58:22

God's time.

Speaker 2 58:23

Yeah, yeah, yeah so you know God's time. So one more real quick, and then I know we we got to go. So how important is it that we give God full credit for the blessings and victories that come our way? So of course Deborah gives full credit. She's completely humble, doesn't brag. She lets them all know that. You know, we're only victorious because of God.

Speaker 1 58:45

I think we need to, like all the time, show him all the glory.

Speaker 3 58:50

Oh yeah.

Speaker 1 58:56

Because if it wasn't for him, you would be. You know, that job is not yours, that job is his.

Speaker 3 58:58

That he gave to you that he blessed you with.

Speaker 1 59:00

So even that, you know the 10% that you don't want to give. I'm just thinking tithing right now, I don't know, but you know like it's yeah it's, it's his, because all of everything that you have, you are blessed with.

Speaker 2 59:13

He gave to you.

Speaker 1 59:14

Believe it or not. A lot of people say, well, I worked hard for this. Yeah, you did.

Speaker 3 59:18

Yeah well, who gave you? Who gave you? Who gave you the job? Yeah yeah, who gave you the knowledge?

Speaker 2 59:22

I always ask people like who do you work for? Yeah, like well myself and well my wife. I'm like right, like uh well yeah, but no yeah, but no. Your. Your attitude always should be I work for the Lord, and everything you do you handle as if you work for the Lord. That's where your heart should always be, because if you're doing it for other people, or a human being or it's it's hard to do. You're in the wrong. It's hard to do.

Speaker 2 59:54

You're in the wrong, it's hard to do, it's a much easier, I think, to say, yep, this is where I'm supposed to be, this is the job I have to do right now. Anything that I do, whether it's a hardship, whether it's something good that comes my way, I'm giving it all up to God. It's, it's in God's timing and God's will. And you know, you have a much better attitude about going along with your work day. Yes, when you're, when you give it all to God and you're like, yeah, I'm working for the Lord, like I do. You know, my work ethic reflects my relationship with him. So when I'm feeling depressed about a long work week or a long work day or being in a situation, I'd rather not be placed in it's, at that point we just have to be. You know, the Lord has made this day.

Speaker 1 1:00:40

It's the Lord's day.

Speaker 2 1:00:41

This is where he's placed me, and usually you can go into a lot more. You know strength and peace of mind and get the job done and feel good about it, because a lot of times people aren't going to thank you.

Speaker 3 1:00:54

Oh no, you're not going to get a thank you for a lot of times. People aren't going to thank you.

Speaker 2 1:00:56

Oh no, you're not going to get a thank you for a lot of things you do in life, no, and a lot of times you can think, wow, I really deserve credit for that.

Speaker 1 1:01:00

Yeah, nobody says anything, nobody even notices. Right, that's what I'm about to say. You, no one even notices. Yeah, but then if you bring it up, you're not being humble that's right you know right, yeah, and usually doesn't get you anywhere anyway, because then you're just bragging yeah, that's just a sour taste, or the last thing they want to do is give you a raise.

Closing Prayer and Farewell

Speaker 2 1:01:20

So you know it's much easier to give it up to the Lord, and then I tend to think you do receive blessings from that.

Speaker 1 1:01:30

I do too yeah.

Speaker 2 1:01:33

I got. I do have. I still have like four other questions that I wrote down, but some of them might actually be a good topic in themselves.

Speaker 1 1:01:42

Okay.

Speaker 2 1:01:43

So we are. It's a seven o'clock hour, I think, right. Yeah, a little over, so you got to go, sid, so we can wrap her up.

Speaker 1 1:01:51

All right, so I prayed last week.

Speaker 2 1:01:55

Let's just take it this way Rob, switch it up, all right. So I prayed last week.

Speaker 1 1:01:59

Let's just take it this way, rob Switch it up. All right, you got it. You got it.

Speaker 3 1:02:04

We're going to be from the land down under where the toilet goes the other way. Heavenly Father, we do. Thank you, lord, for this day. Lord, we thank you for this podcast, lord, we just ask you to continue to bless this podcast, lord, coming out of this little church in Ericsville. And, lord, just be with Beth and Don, lord, as they're not here. Lord, and be with Pastor Michael as he's starting on vacation, lord, and just bless him, bless his family, lord, and we just thank you for him, lord. Lord, we just ask you to take and just be with each person, lord, that walks through our doors. Just touch them, lord, and let them feel your presence. We just thank you and praise you and we give you all the glory. We just ask this all in Jesus' most precious name. Amen.