Jonah & the Whale

What happens when God calls us to serve people we despise? Dive into the remarkable story of Jonah—a tale far deeper than just a man and a whale. This episode uncovers the profound spiritual struggle of a prophet who ran from divine assignment because he couldn't bear the thought of his enemies receiving mercy.

We explore Jonah's journey from reluctant prophet to unwilling messenger, examining his desperate flight away from Nineveh, his dramatic three-day entombment in the great fish, and his subsequent anger when God shows compassion to the very people Jonah deemed unworthy. The conversation reveals surprising parallels between Jonah's prejudice and our own modern tendencies to judge who deserves grace.

Through thoughtful discussion and personal reflection, we unpack how God persistently pursued one stubborn prophet to demonstrate a radical truth: divine mercy extends beyond our comfortable boundaries. We examine how Jesus himself referenced this story as a foreshadowing of his own death and resurrection, giving it profound theological significance beyond its surface narrative.

This episode challenges us to confront our own "Nineveh moments"—those times when God asks us to extend compassion to people we've written off. Are we, like Jonah, more concerned with our comfort than with sharing God's message? Do we secretly hope some people never experience divine mercy? Join us for this honest exploration of one of scripture's most misunderstood stories and discover how it speaks directly to our hidden prejudices today.

Chapters

• 0:00 Beginning Our Conversation
• 6:50 Memorial Day Reflections
• 17:38 Introducing the Story of Jonah
• 29:01 Running from God's Assignment
• 41:12 Three Days in the Fish
• 50:49 God's Mercy for Nineveh
• 57:01 Jonah's Anger and God's Response
• 1:08:06 Exploring Questions About Faith and Judgment
• 1:14:24 Closing Prayer

Transcript

Beginning Our Conversation

Speaker 1 0:37

I didn't think I was going to get out of there again today Out of work, mm-hmm. I called Jarvie. I said I'm telling you what. We're just going to move forward with this back surgery. We're getting it done so I can get out of there.

Speaker 2 0:50

I had one of those days yesterday, but I guess you'll have that in living in the world.

Speaker 3 0:58

Oh yeah, More often than not.

Speaker 2 1:07

All right. Well we're airing so we've got okay me, who's me me kind of sound nasally right now, but I don't think I am um it's the weather yeah, we're just talking about that roger we're not sure, 60 degrees high 62 today.

Speaker 4 1:21

Like what?

Speaker 1 1:22

yeah, misty rain all day, all day, yeah, yeah not where we want to be for this time of year no, at the end of may no, it's like we came, actually came home from the boat on sunday because I'm like I'm cold, I'm aching and I just want my bed and my electric blanket.

Speaker 2 1:42

Yes In.

Speaker 4 1:44

May In May, right? Yes, yeah, yeah, my dad said I was tempted to turn the heat on for a few minutes just to get the chill out of the house.

Speaker 2 1:52

I ended up doing it today Like if it was. If it was just me and not Cooper, I wouldn't have cared, but it's almost a game for me, you, but it's almost a game for me, you know, like October or April, may, weird thing, yeah, but like I don't, I don't want him suffering. So, roger, we're not sure if he's going to be with us today. He's uh setting up for the railroad festival with Pastor Michael, um, but our, I kind of so. Did you think of this topic, nick? Kind of, because of my initial no, really.

Speaker 2 2:26

Because I was like, yeah, that kind of.

Speaker 3 2:29

I was just amazed that I did, because I'm going through Memorial Day weekend and every day I'm like I don't have a topic.

Speaker 4 2:36

I'll get it.

Speaker 3 2:37

You know, I'll get it Next day. I don't have a topic, I'll get it It'll. You know I'll get it next day. I don't have a topic. Well, I'll get it it'll. You know, well, by uh, monday night still didn't have it. So I woke up tuesday morning getting ready to go to work and for some reason, joan is on my mind. I have no idea why. Didn't have any you know reason to have him on my mind. But all of a sudden, you did you know what?

Speaker 3 3:08

I think I'm going to talk about jonah. And then it wasn't until I went back through reading, reading it, yeah, and read about how he fell asleep at the bottom of the boat, and I thought there it it is. You were just talking about Paul and preaching until he put the guy to sleep.

Speaker 2 3:25

I was like all comes together. I was thinking just the stories that are unbelievable, not even unbelievable unheard of. Clearly, Jonah and the whale is one of the stories that you have heard, but I think some people are. Is that even believable, you know, if they're skeptical as it is. So I thought it kind of went hand in hand with that too.

Speaker 3 3:50

Yeah, absolutely.

Speaker 2 3:53

And we were actually talking about it before we even logged on to here. So, we're excited. I think Beth and Don listened to a few podcasts about it. Nick dove into it. I don't see any papers printed out tonight.

Speaker 3 4:07

Well, just I had a couple, but by the time I got through all this I really didn't need it. It was yeah, yeah didn't really have anything I needed to bring along with me.

Speaker 2 4:16

So yeah, I think we'll be, and I have my classic children's Bible book again. Oh nice. I think Jenny got it for me for like Cooper's baby shower or something. It's really. It's got like I think it's all the books in chrono Well, not all the books, a lot of major stories in chronological order and it's just like a short passage for every one of them. So yeah.

Speaker 3 4:43

Did anybody do anything interesting for Memorial Day? Anything to share?

Speaker 4 4:47

Went to best boat, went out to the houseboat.

Speaker 3 4:50

You didn't fall asleep at the bottom of it I did not.

Speaker 4 4:53

I could have fallen asleep on the bed with Bennett, though, but he kept me awake.

Speaker 1 4:58

He kept me busy. Bennett had a new grandma.

Speaker 4 5:01

Oh.

Speaker 1 5:02

I was demoted and that's okay, because those video games and stuff they're just not my cup of tea. And he filled Dawn in on it all.

Speaker 2 5:14

What kind of video games?

Speaker 4 5:16

Oh, they were just I don't know something that he had downloaded on YouTube and some YouTube stuff.

Speaker 2 5:21

He's all about the titanic right now, really yes, I feel like, um, that's like right at that age. How old is he now? Six, yeah, trip, um, my gosh. I wanted to say nephew, he's my cousin. Um, he, I think he was six or seven and he was obsessed with the titanic and they I can't remember if they got the Lego thing to build, but I feel like they did.

Speaker 4 5:45

Yeah, and he had a lot of Lego, yeah, related things as well.

Speaker 2 5:48

Yeah, and then. Well, the book that he gave Cooper was Titanic.

Speaker 1 5:54

I heard him in there telling Dawn about don't get on this ship.

Speaker 4 5:58

Carnival cruises, bougie baby, yeah that's so funny.

Memorial Day Reflections

Speaker 1 6:07

But you know what? It was so funny that him and Rosalyn were out playing and I mean it was cold and it didn't bother them. They had their sweatpants all pulled up their feet in that water. Rosalyn pulled this big stick up and it had like green algae and she's like look, it's an allergy, it's my allergies, my allergies but they had.

Speaker 2 6:38

So much fun so they were both up for the whole weekend. That's nice.

Speaker 3 6:43

Now do they have the. Is there a Titanic exhibit in Cleveland?

Speaker 2 6:48

Columbus or Cincinnati.

Speaker 3 6:51

The last time I was at the Rock Hall of Fame I remember which has been quite a while ago, but I seem to remember there was in a separate building that you could walk to. There was this whole exhibit for the.

Speaker 1 7:08

Titanic Wasn't there one time that there was one that they kind of moved it from place to place?

Speaker 3 7:11

Yeah, I think so. Maybe that's what it was, but yeah, that could have been.

Speaker 2 7:15

I also know they have something up there like a USS ship that you can tour. I think it might be on one of the bays, like you can see it from the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame, but it's a few blocks over, like down by the flats, I guess.

Speaker 1 7:34

Okay, but I think, I don't know.

Speaker 2 7:37

That's one thing I like to do when I'm on vacation, like most of the time it's by a thing of water or something. I just like going on my maps and zooming in and seeing what these things are, that you know, geological marks that your map pulls up. One time I found it's this lighthouse in the middle of it's like an hour off of the Outer Banks, I think, or Myrtle Beach maybe, but it's like rocky shoals, like s-h-o-a-l-s and people. It's called the frying frying tower pan or frying frying pan tower, but people like live there.

Speaker 1 8:15

oh wow, it's still an operating yeah yeah, but it's.

Speaker 2 8:17

I mean, if you see the pictures of it it's likes like maybe even 1950s, like no updates. But how could you update, you know? But they do have people like volunteers. Yeah, they're quote unquote volunteers, but you still you almost have to pay like $900 each night that you volunteer there, just because it's such an experience.

Speaker 4 8:40

Yeah.

Speaker 2 8:40

Yeah, but they have a underground like, oh like, almost like the bird, the bird cameras, but it's underground, just so you can see all the crazy. You know wildlife and fish and reefs right under it oh wow, it's really neat. I think you can take like a boat out there, just to you know, look at it a little tour. Yeah, hmm, yeah.

Speaker 3 9:07

I went down to the uh Zanesville cemetery this year.

Speaker 2 9:10

Oh yeah, um for Memorial day, you mean?

Speaker 3 9:13

Yeah, all right, every Memorial day I go to a cemetery.

Speaker 2 9:15

I was wondering if I'd see you at union cemetery, but I didn't. No, at Union Cemetery, but I didn't.

Speaker 3 9:19

No, I just went, like I said, we went down to Zanesville. There was a famous story of a soldier at Gettysburg. His name was Charles Hazlitt and he was killed on Little Round Top and he was killed. He was leaning over one of a brigade commander and somebody he knew really well and he was leaning over to hear his last words when he was shot in the head and killed. So Gettysburg takes place on July 2nd of 1863. So we go down there.

Speaker 3 9:51

I find his grave and I'm checking that out and it's pretty cool and it's a pretty unique stone. It's got like a nice bronze plaque on the front of it and it tells the whole story about gettysburg and how he was killed. And then I looked over to my left and I see this other stone. It looks exactly the same as the one I'm looking at. So I go over there and it's a family plot, so I go over there.

Speaker 3 10:15

Well, it turns out his brother is buried there as well and his brother had been mortally wounded back on New Year's Eve of 1862 at a place called Stones River in Tennessee, hangs on until June 7th of 63, passes away and not even a month later Charles gets shot and killed at Gettysburg and I just thought, oh my, how terrible for those parents. Can you imagine? And I never knew that Again, it seems like I always learn something. So I was just really taken aback by that. I thought, wow, I just can't imagine You're probably nursing your one son trying to nurse him back to health and you lose him after a six-month battle and then, not even a month later, your other son.

Speaker 4 11:03

No, as a parent, I can't imagine, I can't fathom that. As a kid I used to pray to God and I wasn't even saved then, but as a kid I used to pray to God let me die before my mom dies. And then I think, oh how no, absolutely not. How selfish that was of me. But you know, my mom was my best friend, she was my confidant. She was my everything and I'm like let me go before she does. And then I, now that I'm a parent, I'm like oh boy, that was like yeah.

Speaker 1 11:32

Once you're a parent.

Speaker 4 11:33

Such a selfish prayer yeah.

Speaker 1 11:34

You're like oh no, I wouldn't want to put my not, no, no, yeah and they were.

Speaker 3 11:39

I don't even think they were 25 years old, yeah. You know they were pretty young so I just can't imagine that. But yeah, so that was. They had a really nice cemetery down there, really nice presentation for Memorial Day, and it's like on this hill and then if you go into the cemetery you can go up this other hill to the very top and you can look out over the whole city of Zanesville from the cemetery. So it's really unique and they have a lot of American Revolution soldiers buried there.

Speaker 3 12:06

So, there's a lot of history, a lot of people that were actually born in England that's cool and came over here like Irish and English. So yeah, it was really neat just to walk around and kind of learn some of the history of those people and I always find that interesting, I do too. You can learn a lot just by walking around the cemetery.

Speaker 1 12:23

Oh yeah, you really can. Oh yeah, kathy Grandison, I don't know if you know or not she had reached out to my aunt and I wish I would have known that they were going to do it. But Eureksville, she read every name of every soldier or person that was buried there that had served in the war.

Speaker 4 12:45

Yeah.

Speaker 1 12:46

Really and said that you know, she just let my aunt know that they read my grandpa's name. Wish I would have been there.

Speaker 2 12:52

Yeah, I went, so I did the. They had the Civil War one which is in that weird roundabout area in the cemetery, and then they did that one at 10 and they did the other one at 11, which was it's called the new soldiers plot Maybe plots, I don't know, but and it's it's bigger over there because it's where all the like it's. It's probably where you're talking, beth.

Speaker 3 13:19

But down in the left hand corner. Yeah, all the way in the back.

Speaker 2 13:21

Yes, yeah, by the flagpole. But I was like there's no way she just read off, because you see so many of those white headstones and I I'd say she read off like 11. I'm like there's no way. So I actually meant to go home and like read up on, because it's, I think, a rule call is what she called it. I'm like, I'm like there's no way she just read all of those. There's no stinking way. So I meant to go home and read on that.

Speaker 1 13:44

I don't know that Grandpa is over there. He's in the regular plot. Our family's out over there. But, still that they acknowledge him a lot.

Speaker 3 13:54

Yeah, I have to admit I didn't know that they were actually doing something over there.

Speaker 2 13:59

The only reason I know is because every year I know that there's the um. It's not even a parade, it's just the band walks down and passes my house, and I hear it every year.

Speaker 2 14:12

Oh that's right, uh-huh so I'm like, oh, cooper would like that. And I I'm like, depending on if he takes an apple, he wasn't taking a nap, so I'm like you know what? He's gonna wake up from this band anyway. So I'm I got in his little stroller or put him in his stroller, and then um, headed down and then I was like, yeah, and I'm like you, nick, I'm like I want to see, like what can I learn today, you know? So we just walked down there and actually my aunt was there and ended up, just you know, standing with her and her dad. Her dad's dad is buried over in the new plots, so she met with him and yeah, it was pretty cool. Though that's cool, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 3 14:47

One more crazy story real quick. Did you hear about the vehicle that was hit by the train?

Speaker 2 14:52

last night, was that you?

Speaker 3 14:54

No, it's not that interesting.

Speaker 4 14:58

No, I did Margie and I yeah On.

Speaker 3 15:00

Wardell yeah, right down from us. So we had just got to bed. We're just laying there, kind of chit-chatting, you know, and we always hear the trains going back and forth all the time.

Speaker 3 15:10

And they had their whistle going the whole thing. And it goes by and all of a sudden Margie's like that didn't sound right. I'm like what do you mean? She goes. Something didn't sound right about that and I just kind of looked at her. No, sooner she said that the train, you can hear the brakes, and it wasn't. Five minutes after that all the emergency vehicles show up.

Speaker 2 15:33

Now that you say that I remember hearing brakes and I didn't know what it was.

Speaker 3 15:38

Yeah, that's what it was. Okay, like a weird squeaky yes, yeah, because the brakes went on for quite a while. Yeah, it did yeah so, uh, yeah, everybody shows up and and of course I was like I didn't hear anything and I thought, oh, hopefully some they didn't hit a person right, you know so all I know is a vehicle didn't yield. Either it just decided to go right across without stopping, or it tried to beat it. I don't know.

Speaker 2 16:08

I don't think there were any injuries.

Speaker 3 16:10

No, they did say I think the driver was injured. Okay Times Reporter. If you try to click on a lot of their links you can't do it.

Speaker 2 16:19

You have the subscription. Yes, that's where it ends for me. Yeah, same, yeah, lot of their links you can't do it like you have the subscription.

Speaker 3 16:24

Yes, that's where it ends for me. Yeah, same, yeah, but yeah, that was. That was kind of crazy. Yeah, yeah, and I don't know. I still don't know how she like picked that out. She's like something don't sound right about them because you hear it multiple times a day yeah, that's what she said. She's like well, I'm used to hearing it all the time, so I know when something's different, something I was like well, I didn't hear anything.

Speaker 1 16:41

I even know like, oh, that's running late.

Speaker 3 16:43

Yes, so, yeah, I'm kind of interested to hear the rest of that story.

Speaker 2 16:51

Craziness Right, jonah.

Speaker 3 16:56

Jonah and the whale.

Introducing the Story of Jonah

Speaker 2 16:58

Now I'll say this little Bible book, kids book, says Jonah and the fish, jonah and the fish. Now I'll say this little Bible book, kids book, says Jonah and the fish, jonah and the fish and actually. Yes and what was it? Hebrew, the Hebrew word and something about, oh wait, fish. Yes, large fish is Hebrew. Yeah, I don't know where I was getting with that. Never mind, I was hoping you had. Yeah, I don't know where I was getting that.

Speaker 3 17:23

Never mind, I was hoping you had it, because I didn't get that. I didn't.

Speaker 2 17:25

Yeah, I think it was actually in. I should say I'm pretty sure where I got that was Wikipedia and I'm like I don't know how accurate that is, because can't a lot of people go in there and edit it now, compared to years when Wikipedia startedipedia started?

Speaker 3 17:44

you know what I mean news to me no I don't know yeah, I don't know, but uh well, we were talking, maybe before we went live, that you know. This is a story that you know, you learn as a child. It's one of the big, you know children's bible stories. So you know about jonah and the whale, so everybody's heard it.

Speaker 1 18:05

But there's a lot more to the story that you don't realize until you really dive into it um, as a child, I don't think you ever grasped I. I don't know that I have really grasped it until I dug into it. Yeah.

Speaker 3 18:19

Yeah.

Speaker 1 18:20

Same.

Speaker 3 18:20

Yeah, because it usually ends up in, you know, amazing Bible stories.

Speaker 2 18:24

Yeah.

Speaker 1 18:25

You just get the simple.

Speaker 3 18:27

You know the simple story.

Speaker 2 18:28

Well, and I feel like that's why a lot of people don't dive into it, because it's like oh well, I already know, everybody knows that Three days in the belly of the whale.

Speaker 4 18:35

Yeah, spit out one yeah which three days?

Speaker 2 18:40

that's like, yeah, right, that's very yes to jesus, you know but yep, jesus will uh tell that story himself yeah, comparing it to his yeah, that he will be, you know, resurrected in three days.

Speaker 3 18:56

So yeah, um, so maybe a little, uh. So let's give a little backstory to try to get into this. So Jonah, originally he is one of the prophets and he is under—. Now, I don't know if most people know this and I just kind of learned this, diving into this, but Israel was split into two factions. So you had the faction of Israel and you had the faction of Judah. So I don't know, I don't know if that's because they had different beliefs or they had certain conflicts they couldn't resolve, but Israel is almost split into two factions.

Speaker 2 19:38

So almost like the Civil War for us, us like how that would have been.

Speaker 3 19:42

Maybe, perhaps, yeah yeah okay but I haven't died, I haven't got into enough of that to really know what the story is there, but jonah is um. He is a prophet on the israel side of the faction and he is mentioned in second kings 1425, so he's a prophet under Jeroboam the second, which he is the king of Israel from 793 to 753, and I think our when Jonah really starts preaching, it's around 785. Remember, this is BC, so the numbers will get lower as we get closer to Christ's birth and it says that Jonah's ministry ends somewhere in 753.

Speaker 3 20:29

So from 783 to 753. But this Jeroboam II yeah, he's the king of Israel, but he's a real nasty guy. He's a real nasty guy, he's a real bad dude and uh, so I'm gonna guess that this is where uh jonah begins to get a bad taste in his mouth for these type of people. Um, so he's going to prophesize under them, and then we'll cut right to the chase. God tells jonah to preach to and go into Nineveh and preach to those people. Now, he's already seen some really bad dudes. I guess the people in Nineveh are even worse. Absolutely.

Speaker 3 21:11

These people are just completely horrible. I think they listed, let's see, they were guilty of evil plots against God, whatever that meant exploitation of the helpless, cruelty and war, prostitution, worshiping idols and witchcraft. So yeah, so these are. And these people and the important thing I thing to point out here is, from what I've read, these people had never even been given a chance to worship God.

Speaker 2 21:55

So they're, they're not even so they were all like already doing witchcraft like that, yeah, like they they're not even like that, yeah.

Speaker 3 22:02

Like they, they're not even aware that there is got it Okay, you know.

Speaker 3 22:05

God as we know it. So they're just, you know they're running rampant, they're doing whatever they want to do, they're committing every type of atrocity you could possibly imagine. And, of course, god is asking Jonah to go into this territory to preach to these people. And Jonah, he doesn't think these people deserve it. This is not what he wants to do. This is the last thing that Jonah wants to do. So God is giving him a very uncomfortable, very tough assignment and instead of Jonah taking up the cross, taking up the challenge, and saying, you know, I'll give it my best shot.

Speaker 1 22:47

Yeah.

Speaker 3 22:48

He wants no part of it because, number one, he doesn't believe it's possible. Number two, he doesn't like these people, so he doesn't believe they deserve it. Uh, don't believe there's any chance that, you know, they're going to give up their lifestyle that they have. Yeah, and I'm going to guess too, he's thinking this is going to be dangerous, this is going to be probably the. You know, I might not come back from this so he wants no part of uh well, no, because they're just killing people, however they yeah want to.

Speaker 1 23:16

Yeah, I mean just yeah, I read the what the flocking. So there was no flesh on their bodies Impaling we're big on impaling people. Very gruesome gruesome people.

Speaker 4 23:31

Yeah, I mean, doesn't Jonas say that he'd rather just be dead?

Speaker 2 23:36

Just kill me.

Speaker 3 23:37

I don't want to go here and do this.

Speaker 4 23:39

I would rather be dead than have to do this.

Speaker 3 23:41

Yeah, eventually, as the story goes along, he, finally, he'll finally which we'll get to that part of it, but he'll finally do as God says. But he's still going to put up resistance, he's still going to try to put forth his point of view.

Speaker 4 23:55

Where he literally goes in the opposite direction of what God tells him to go.

Speaker 3 23:58

Yeah, and that's exactly what's going to happen is is he's going to head? Uh, where he needs to be heading, I think, is East and to Assyrian, which Assyrian is, I guess, uh, nineveh and Assyria, I believe, in modern times, is around Mosul, which is around Iraq, I believe.

Speaker 2 24:21

So if you would want to, go there today.

Speaker 3 24:22

That's where you would be present day muscle. Yes, yeah, that's nineveh, yeah um, so he's supposed to be going east, and what's he do? He turns and he goes as far. He plans on going as far west as possible and so the way he decides to do this is he gets himself a ticket on the boat, pays the fare, jumps in, becomes part of the crew and he thinks, you know, he can out sail God, basically, he thinks he can get so far away from the situation that God will not be able to reach him, to turn him around.

Speaker 3 24:58

And he's going to find out that, uh, that is exactly the opposite case. And so he's on the, he's on the ship with these guys and, uh, of course, god creates this huge storm to capture the ship, to stop it in his path, to turn it around. And what's jonah doing at the time of the storm? Sleeping Somehow Imagine that, as everybody's probably fighting for their lives trying to keep this ship from sinking and capsizing.

Speaker 4 25:33

He's down there just having a nice day. Yeah, they're throwing their cargo overboard.

Speaker 3 25:35

Yeah right, yeah they're starting to throw everything overboard to keep it balanced and keep everybody alive and he doesn't care.

Speaker 2 25:44

And that's when they're finally like okay, we ran out of cargo to throw over, so yeah who's this guy?

Speaker 4 25:48

sleeping down here, who's this guy?

Speaker 3 25:51

Well, and it says you know to figure this out, they do the old tradition of casting lots, which, if you don't know what casting lots is, it's basically like you're going to flip a coin, you're going to draw sticks, anything they can do to just kind of like a random you know, to see who's going to you know, yeah, to see who had offended God to cause this storm.

Speaker 3 26:15

Yeah. So of course they cast their lot and it lands on Jonah, so they start asking him questions, like you know well, what are they asking. They ask him, like well, how?

Speaker 4 26:27

you know who are you.

Speaker 3 26:28

Who are you? And number one is like how can you sleep?

Speaker 4 26:31

Yeah, you know, during this.

Speaker 3 26:33

And what have you possibly done to offend God, to create this storm? And I suppose it's at that point that he confesses. He says I am a Hebrew and I worship the Lord, the God of heaven who made the sea and the land.

Speaker 3 26:49

And when they heard that, then they wanted to know. Okay, they asked him well, why are you running? They wanted to know why he was running. And I'm going to suppose that he told them that. I suppose that he told them that. And they say, well, what can we do to stop this? And at this point Jonah's just like, well, just throw me in, throw me in. Just sacrifice me.

Speaker 2 27:13

Yeah, you know, and this will put.

Speaker 3 27:17

You know God will give up. You know, if I'm not around, if I'm dead, you know God can't use me. So just throw me overboard. And of course at first I don't think they wanted to do that. You know they didn't want to be you know, have that, you know.

Speaker 2 27:29

I don't know, I might be tempted to Like if you're just sitting there sleeping and I'm working and sweating away. See you later, buddy yeah.

Speaker 4 27:37

Verse 13 of chapter 1 says instead the sailors rode even harder to get the ship to land, but the stormy sea was too violent for them and they couldn't make it.

Speaker 3 27:46

Right. So then they had no choice but to get their hands dirty and throw him overboard. So you throw him overboard and of course that's when God commands the big fish to swallow him up and their Jonah will stay for three days in the belly of the fish After he was thrown overboard.

Speaker 2 28:06

didn't the storm stop right away?

Speaker 3 28:09

Yeah, yeah, it did.

Speaker 1 28:11

And all of them that were on the ship were saved, and then in its place comes the big fish. And they vowed to serve his God.

Speaker 2 28:21

That's awesome.

Speaker 3 28:26

So quite a uh, unbelievable story at this point. Um, but it's in, uh, it's from inside the fish. Then you know that, uh, jonah calls out to god and he says in my distress, I called to the Lord and he answered me from the depths of the grave. So he's pretty much looking at being in the belly of the fish as being in his own grave, buried alive. I called for help.

Speaker 3 28:51

You hurled me into the deep, into the very heart of the sea, and the current swirled about me. All your waves and breakers swept over me. I said I have been banished from your sight, yet I will look again towards your holy temple. The engulfing water threatened me, the deep surrounded me, seaweed was wrapped around my head to the roots of the mountains. I sank down, the earth beneath barred me in forever, but you brought my life up from the pit. O Lord, my God, when my life was ebbing away, I remembered you, lord, and my prayer rose to you, to your holy temple. Those who cling to worthless idols forfeit the grace that could be theirs, but I, with a song of thanksgiving, will sacrifice to you While I have vowed I will make good. Salvation comes from the Lord, and at that point God commands the fish to grill him up.

Speaker 4 29:41

Spit him out on the beach.

Speaker 3 29:42

Can you imagine that?

Speaker 2 29:44

No.

Speaker 3 29:44

That had to be.

Speaker 2 29:46

So last week I had a Disney little and then I'm like, hey, you know what this reminds me of? And Nick's like, yeah, I feel like a lot of these Disney, or not even necessarily Disney, but just movies, kids movies, any movies. They take them from bible, you know the bible, or even other, yeah, tall tales. But, um, and I shouldn't say the bible is a tall tale but I'm like, well, I feel like this one reminds me of nemo, does anyone know which, uh, which area? Whenever they're like I can't even do it, I'm not gonna do it. And they're like, hey, dory, do you speak humpback? But dory's like you, you have to trust me, you have to trust me. And he's like, oh, of course, this whale's telling you to, you know, go at the bottom of its throat, because he wants to eat you. Well, actually, the whale ended up, she ended up going down, and so did marlin, and then they went through the whole thing that they have and back into the ocean. So it just reminded me of it, but not exactly.

Speaker 1 30:52

But one thing, uh, when it references in what is it, matthew? When jesus talks, talks about Jonah and the three days, it makes me wonder. When the seaweed wrapped itself around my head, think about how they wrap the dead and they wrap their face.

Speaker 4 31:15

Yeah, well and like when it says I called to you from the land of the dead. Like was, so did he drown.

Speaker 3 31:27

Was his soul Beyond.

Speaker 4 31:28

Beyond and he's praying from yeah, I mean, what does that exactly mean? Yeah, I mean, that's the question. I mean if it correlates, if this is the correlation between the three days.

Speaker 3 31:41

Right. Jesus' three days.

Speaker 4 31:44

Was he dead, crying, you know, praying from the land of the dead, and then, when Jesus has the whale, spit him out on the beach like his resurrection day? Yeah, I don't know, that's just something that crossed my mind.

Speaker 1 32:01

And actually I think I've listened to a few people.

Speaker 3 32:05

They kind of referenced that. Yeah, and of course Jesus says you know what he says about Jonah. He says, oh, he says that no one greater than Jonah is here, so he's putting. Jonah up on this high pedestal, as possibly being the only other human being that is experiencing, or has experienced what he's going to experience now. So he makes direct reference to.

Speaker 2 32:36

Yeah, I read that early and I don't know how early they mean, but early Christian interpreters viewed Jonah as a type of Jesus. That early, and I don't know how early they mean, but early christian interpreters viewed juna, juna, jonah, as a type of jesus. But I'm like, what do you mean by type, you know? But I mean, I thought that was interesting, you know, even the interpreters were like, yeah, yeah, I mean.

Speaker 3 32:59

Well, I suppose, if you can put it in the right words, right, right makes sense. Yeah, I mean, he was a prophet, but yeah, you know, but I mean, he doesn't hold, he's not the son of exactly, yeah, right but it's just all another part of the prophecy that you know that this story is very important because jesus himself is going to reference this story.

Speaker 4 33:23

Yes, so you know he's going to reference this. I mean in Matthew and in Luke. Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 3 33:27

And that's in Matthew 36. I'm sorry, yeah, matthew 36 is when that story, when Jesus talks about that.

Speaker 4 33:38

Yeah, I have a couple in Matthew. I've got 12, 39, 41, 4 yeah, yeah, matthew, 12, 36.

Speaker 2 33:48

Yeah, that's where I've got it yeah, okay, so I was, I was pretty accurate. The whale in the hebrew text refers to as large fish now jonah, in the Hebrew language refers to dove, so that's the whole other thing that you can just digest. I didn't read.

Speaker 3 34:12

I read that when I was studying last night so does that mean he's meant to be like a peacekeeper?

Speaker 2 34:19

peacemaker maybe yeah, and like at that time, did they, did they view doves as peacemakers at during that time?

Speaker 3 34:31

you know, I don't know well, correct me, but story of noah, isn't it a? Dove Is it a?

Speaker 1 34:40

dove that comes visiting.

Speaker 2 34:42

Yes, so there's that connection.

Speaker 1 34:43

So then yes, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 3 34:49

So, that's how Noah knows that there's life that there's dry land yeah. Because the dove comes and visits him.

Speaker 2 34:54

Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 3 34:55

Yeah.

Speaker 2 34:56

And I guess even you know, like God was just proving a point, like I'm going to have this whale spit you back out because I'm not done with you yet. You know.

Speaker 3 35:06

Well, and you have to think about this, you have to think about okay. So when he gets out of the belly of the fish and he finally decides that he is going to go to Nineveh and he's going to preach to these people, you have to think okay, he must be a very convincing prophet because he's going into a land that has never heard the word before, and it says.

Speaker 4 35:32

On day one, jonah entered the city and he shouted to the crowds 40 days from now, nineveh will be destroyed. And they said that, like that's all he said. He didn't say hey, I have a God who's merciful and forgiving, and all you got to do is repent of your sins. He just said your city is going to be destroyed in 40 days. I wonder what he looked like.

Speaker 1 35:51

I mean, is he bleached out from the stomach gases? Because?

Speaker 4 35:55

they said, people immediately turned from their wicked ways and just started worshiping.

Speaker 2 36:02

Yeah, right.

Speaker 4 36:04

Yeah, yeah, yeah. So what did he look like? The burning bush, did he? I mean, what did he look like? What? Yes, that they just that's what I was about to say or like a ghost, yeah, or something.

Speaker 2 36:17

Right, because it doesn't give us any reference to what he looks like? Does he look like Jesus when Jesus came out of the tomb? You know Right, I mean because yeah.

Speaker 3 36:28

Yeah, and I guess Nineveh was a population of about 175,000 people, so they said it would take three days to visit. It was a very important city at the time, which that just blows my mind. I guess, like these cities were considered very important. And yet you look at the clientele, you're like what? Like, how did they, you know? But I guess it always just comes back to the more you read into this stuff it's just like, you know, the Israelites, they just they can't, as you know, as we hear Pastor Michael preach all the time, they just can't get it together and no matter how many times they go through this stuff, they just can't seem to get it together. And then, of course, even in their you know, sometimes you're like how do you even know your enemies from your friends?

Speaker 3 37:16

Because, everybody's behaving so badly all the time Right.

Speaker 2 37:20

Yeah.

Speaker 3 37:20

You know, until God sends somebody again to straighten them all out for a while, and then and I think they even say with nineveh, their salvation only lasted like 60 years, and then they would fall back into the same types of problems that the israelites fall into. So it's just a constant battle, and part of you can't blame jon Jonah for not wanting to go, because I'm sure he's seen it all.

Speaker 4 37:45

Yeah, and it sounds like when they said that the king, when Jonah said that stepped down from his throne, took off his royal robes, dressed himself in burlap and sat on a heap of ashes. The king and his nobles sent this decree throughout the city that they would fast and they would pray, and even the animals even the animals wouldn't eat, would pray.

Speaker 1 38:03

And so even the animals, even the animals wouldn't eat. They put sackcloth even on the animals so the animals even were fasting.

Speaker 3 38:10

Yeah, get that I wouldn't be able to get sackcloth on some of our cats you know.

Speaker 4 38:17

And then jonah was mad. He was infuriated that god was not going to bring down his wrath on these people because they repented. And so Jonah was mad because he felt they deserved that death, and so did he have family members that were afflicted, or something.

Speaker 3 38:36

And he says that's why I was so quick to flee. He said I knew that you are a gracious and compassionate God, slow to anger and abounding in love, a God who relents from sending calamity. So he again said Lord, take away my life, for it is better for me to die than to live Like he was. He was so angry about God's decision even after he had, even after God had shown him mercy Right.

Speaker 4 39:01

It's OK to save me. Yeah, because I deserve it, even after God had shown him mercy. Right, it's okay to save me.

Speaker 3 39:03

Yeah, because I deserve it.

Speaker 4 39:05

Don't save Sid over there because she's worse off than I am. Her sins are worse than mine. Yeah, I deserve it.

Speaker 3 39:12

I've at least done some work for you.

Speaker 4 39:15

Right.

Speaker 3 39:15

I'm not perfect but, these people just don't deserve it. And if you're going to do this, I'd rather just you know. If you're going to do this, I'd rather just you know. I realize you just saved me from the belly of the fish. What more can you do for somebody Right? And he's still, like you know, just angry. And of course God is like well, he says, have you any right to be angry? And Jonah just decided he's going to go pout again. He's going to go pout, and you know, and sit outside the city and God again shows him mercy.

Speaker 2 39:49

Under a plant.

Speaker 4 39:50

Yeah, cuts him up some shelter, so he's got some shade.

Speaker 2 39:52

God provides him. Yeah.

Speaker 3 39:54

God provides him once again, and of course then he provides the worm which he's divine away, and it gets so hot that Jonah's going to faint.

Speaker 4 40:07

Again he says just leave me die. Yeah, just let me die, let me die. Death is certainly better than living like this, he exclaimed yeah.

Speaker 3 40:13

So he still wants nothing to do with these people and their salvation. So very stubborn, yeah, very yeah he's angry enough to just die yeah, I mean that's let me die yeah I feel like if I and he knows went through that.

Speaker 2 40:28

I don't think I would be like let me die, right like wow, I just survived.

Three Days in the Fish

Speaker 4 40:32

Yeah, you spit me out of the way. Yeah, I survived these people they didn't murder. Yeah, exactly, you gave me shade, but then you took it away, so now I'm mad lesson learned yep, and of course, uh.

Speaker 3 40:50

God says you know, but nineveh has more than 120 000 people who cannot tell their right hand from their left, and many cattle as well. Should I not be concerned about that great city?

Speaker 1 41:03

yeah yeah.

Speaker 4 41:05

So I think when he asked that question, you know he's, he's asking drop, yeah, yeah, it's a mic drop it's like you feel bad for the plant that I killed the plant, but you don't feel bad about these 120 000 people that you think I should yeah bring the raft down on and let them all die.

Speaker 3 41:22

Yeah.

Speaker 4 41:22

But you're worried about this plant. I let die, so you don't have shade anymore.

Speaker 3 41:25

Yep, and I think that speaks to us today as a people you know, we can, I think, a lot of times the way that we worship and the way we look to God. Sometimes we're too busy trying to see it our way, as we would have it.

Speaker 2 41:47

You only want to look at it your way.

Speaker 3 41:49

Yeah, yeah, so you have like blinders. Yeah, yeah, like you feel like you're doing everything in your life to follow God the way that you should, and if everybody else ain't going along, then we become angry, we become stubborn, we become blind.

Speaker 2 42:07

Complacent.

Speaker 3 42:07

Complacent, and so that's something that I think that every Christian, I would say, battles with at some point.

Speaker 1 42:16

Yeah.

Speaker 3 42:17

Is the longer you're a Christian. Sometimes you feel like you know, you start getting badges, you know and you can count the badges and the stars on your chest and on your shoulder straps and you think like you're more elevated than, yeah, people who are really struggling just to understand the word right in its most basic form our heart isn't aligned with yeah or let's face it, in our world. It's hard to believe, but there are people in our modern world that have never heard the word, that truly don't understand it.

Speaker 2 42:50

No.

Speaker 3 42:51

And I've had no opportunity to.

Speaker 2 42:53

Right.

Speaker 3 42:54

Yeah, so I mean again, that's really hard to believe but it's true, but it's true. You know, and I look at it sometimes because well, maggie, you know she's going into high school next year and she'll come home sometimes and she'll talk about, you know fellow classmate and she'd be like, well, you know, he's really mean and I'll just be honest, like well, he doesn't smell very good and he does this, does that, and just you know, and she's not really passing judgment, she's just observing.

Speaker 4 43:32

Dating the facts that she sees, how she perceives it, how she sees it.

Speaker 3 43:37

But what she doesn't see is the fact that she is not. They have not had the blessings that she has.

Speaker 1 43:44

Right.

Speaker 3 43:45

And I'm not even just talking about knowing God, of having that opportunity. I mean just the simple blessings in life.

Speaker 2 43:51

Yeah.

Speaker 3 43:51

That you would think how is it in this modern day world that every child doesn't have certain you know benefits and certain care, and you know all of those things that we, just, all of us, kind of take for granted, because it comes natural to us, or even been taught.

Speaker 1 44:06

Right, yeah, as a child you grow up, you take a bath, you put deodorant on and you'd be amazed at how many children aren't taught that.

Speaker 3 44:15

Yeah, and they don't realize that maybe the reason why they are mean and they are hard to be friends with is because they're angry, yeah, at their life, even though they don't quite understand what's going on? It's like naturally they're angry because they don't have those blessings and those things, and I think sometimes that just carries over into adulthood.

Speaker 3 44:40

Oh yeah, over into adulthood and you know, and how we look at things, that you know we can be very quick to judge people and feel like we can look at a person and just be like you know there's no, there's no way that person is ever going to come to God. You know they're just too rough, they're just, they're too opinionated. They got, they're set in their ways. You know there's just don't even bother, don't even bother. Let's go work on the people that are already being worked on.

Speaker 3 45:09

That's easier. Let's just work with people inside the church. Yeah, they might be halfway there, they might still be working on stuff, but at least that's a good base to start with, whereas if you got to go and start with somebody completely you know, uh, just that, that's, that's but, how many people would, how many people would volunteer for that job?

Speaker 4 45:32

right, yeah, but he calls us to love the unloved it does and that does, and we've all disobeyed, yeah, we all yeah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 3 45:42

So so I think it's. You know it's a simple story. It's a simple Bible story that we all grow up learning and we're all fascinated with the whale itself. But you know, the main point of it is is that you have you have a man who is given a task far greater than what most people are assigned. And, number one, it shows you what happens when you try to run from things.

Speaker 3 46:09

You know, when you don't take responsibility for the job that you're given you know, you can see that there's just a lot of things through the will of God that you're just not going to outrun. Yeah, you might outrun it for a while. He might let you go around the pass.

Speaker 4 46:25

Yeah, you know, even a couple times. Yeah, even a couple times, but you know he's, he's.

Speaker 3 46:30

if he can show love and compassion towards, uh, the syrians, toward the people of nineveh, then he can show love to anybody, because these are the. You know, these are the bottom of the barrel, these are people completely in the dark, yeah.

Speaker 2 46:45

I'm thinking of that place in LA, like two miles long of just. We've talked about it Heck, it might have even been before Beth and Don were on the podcast, but I think there's a documentary about it and it's just a ton of people that that there's a lot of homeless people. There's a lot of you know, like I'm just thinking that you know.

Speaker 3 47:11

Yeah, I think they do have a name for it, but I can't think what it is. So maybe something alley.

Speaker 1 47:15

Yeah, something like that.

Speaker 3 47:16

But yeah, it's just all tents yeah.

Speaker 1 47:19

Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 3 47:20

Yeah.

Speaker 1 47:21

Yeah, yeah, I think this kind of opened my eyes in kind of a different way. Not necessarily. I think Jonah for some reason carried some anger because of the people of Nineveh and how cruel they were and there again he felt that they weren't worthy or whatever. It made me look in my life at how there's been people in my life that maybe have ruffled my feathers or have carried anger about.

Speaker 3 47:48

And you don't give them another chance.

Speaker 1 47:49

No, and I don't. But maybe I should have extended my hand and showed them God and maybe that would have changed that person. Yeah Right.

Speaker 3 48:00

Yeah, yeah. And of course you know, in our day and age we can't look at somebody and say, if you don't straighten up, god's going to destroy everything in your life in 40 days, Like you got 40 days to get this right.

Speaker 4 48:11

In 40 days you've been right.

Speaker 3 48:13

Yeah, your life's going to be completely destroyed.

Speaker 4 48:24

You know, but I think you know I don't know.

Speaker 3 48:25

Well, that was God's specific plan. Yeah, I mean it was yes, yeah, you know. So if we heard that from somebody, we might think that dude's crazy.

Speaker 1 48:29

Yeah, and then how many times have we all rolled our eyes at a prison salvation. Right, you know, and who are we to judge that?

Speaker 4 48:39

Yeah.

Speaker 1 48:39

Mm-hmm.

Speaker 4 48:40

You know, just you know.

Speaker 1 48:42

That's right, they you know. Okay, you got a serial killer on here and now all of a sudden they're saved.

Speaker 4 48:47

But yeah, you know but those are the people I mean, but the, when we read, those are the people that god used right, exactly yes, they were murderers, they were yes, paul was like a huge hater, huge and.

Speaker 2 49:03

And then he ended up coming like you know how many books did he write? You know, those are the people that he used and his mercy and grace yes.

Speaker 4 49:10

He gives that to us every day.

Speaker 1 49:12

Why do we feel that? Maybe they?

Speaker 4 49:14

aren't worthy Right you?

Speaker 1 49:16

know, is it society?

Speaker 4 49:17

Oh, because we are just too judgmental. Yes, yes, exactly.

Speaker 3 49:20

We are, and it's too judgmental.

Speaker 4 49:21

Yes, yes, exactly, we are. And. I hate to admit that, but we are, oh yeah.

Speaker 3 49:25

Oh, absolutely, it's just and it's a natural sin, yeah, of living in this world.

Speaker 4 49:31

It just unfortunately, it comes natural to us.

Speaker 1 49:34

Yeah.

Speaker 3 49:35

And we can't overcome it without Christ.

Speaker 4 49:39

You just can't, that's right.

Speaker 3 49:41

It's impossible, and even then it's still hard.

Speaker 1 49:43

Oh yeah.

Speaker 2 49:44

Yeah, because here we are struggling with it still Right.

Speaker 3 49:47

And I wrote down this question. I said is it ever our job as Christians to be vengeful of the wrongdoings of others? Should we ever take God's judgment into our own hands?

Speaker 1 49:57

Absolutely not Not that, but, but I mean, yeah Right, not Not that, but, but I mean we do.

Speaker 4 50:02

And the Bible says vengeance is mine, sayeth the Lord. I mean, don't ask me where that's at, but it's not for us Vengeance?

God's Mercy for Nineveh

Speaker 1 50:11

as Christians I don't think, but I think sometimes as Christians it's hard to give that mercy and grace that God gives and that he's requesting us to.

Speaker 4 50:23

Oh yeah, If I don't want to show your mercy, I'm just going to walk away from you and I'm going to keep you at arm's length. You can just stay at a distance and just stay out there.

Speaker 3 50:31

I'll pray for you Right. Oh, bless your heart which, if you're sincere about that, it may have some outcome on that person.

Speaker 4 50:42

Right.

Speaker 3 50:42

But using it as an escape flaws right, you know, to get out, no, that doesn't work um.

Speaker 2 50:50

I thought it was interesting.

Speaker 3 50:51

In the hebrew bible there is the book of jonah, and they say um, that's how hard it is not to say Judah or Job or I was like I really had to concentrate like Jonah, Jonah, yeah.

Speaker 2 51:09

But the so it was kind of resembling the mouth of the whale like a synagogue. The fish's eyes were like windows and the pearl inside its mouth provided further illumination. Where was this In the book of Jonah in the hebrew bible?

Speaker 3 51:27

really. Yeah, it mentions this I guess so huh yeah all right, that's interesting yeah I don't know it.

Speaker 2 51:40

It says, according to Rabbi Eliezer, the fish that was swallowed was created in the primordial Is it primordial? P-r-i-m-o-r dial, some era, and the inside of the mouth was like a synagogue.

Speaker 1 52:06

The fish's eyes were like windows and a pearl inside its mouth provided further illumination that's one thing that I've always wanted to do a little bit more study on the hebrew their language and the breakdown, but anything I've ever found has been so far over my head, yeah, I'm like, okay, back off.

Speaker 4 52:28

I can't do this, and I am not an avid reader and I can read the same thing over and over, same and over, and it doesn't Before it.

Speaker 2 52:36

Yeah.

Speaker 4 52:39

And then I mean, I can do my devotions every morning, but come evening, evening, I'll be like what did I read, what did I read this morning? And then I'll read it again before I go to bed and I'll be like oh yeah, that's what it was, but I've just never been a reader and I hate. I hate that, but I've never. I love to read.

Speaker 1 52:54

I just never have the time yeah, I start reading them.

Speaker 4 52:57

I'm out. Yeah, it just puts me to sleep like jonah yeah, just sleep, I can sleep well, jonah, jonah, jonah then sometimes, if I get a really good book, I won't put it down.

Speaker 2 53:11

I'll stay up all night reading it yeah, I'm not a reader, but there have been a little like nicholas sparks. I was into those growing up I shouldn't say growing up you know, 15 to 19 maybe. But and then there's some of them, like there was, there's some I don't know, just there's some easier reading ones that almost like are like a poetry type you know, and that's an easy read for me, but I don't know yeah, it's easy for me.

Speaker 2 53:41

I could read every day sometimes if all day, if I have the time, I'm trying to sell that in Cooper, like I'm trying to read one book a day.

Speaker 3 53:47

Sometimes it's just something about the pages and the smell of the pages and just the whole experience. It's like you know, like I do the Kindle thing, Like I have a Kindle and I like to have that if I'm out and about.

Speaker 1 53:58

Yeah.

Speaker 3 53:58

But there's still nothing like opening up a fresh book.

Speaker 2 54:01

Knowing where the page is and the smell like you said.

Speaker 1 54:04

Yeah, yeah, yeah, all right. I think the last book that I read that I really was into, that I couldn't put down, was I'll never say the word right lineage. Is that the right word for like the family?

Speaker 4 54:19

The lineage Lineage Lineage.

Speaker 1 54:22

It was the women of the bible that played important roles up to jesus's birth oh but it was written by francine river. Who is it's there? She bases it on the bible stories, but it's on the on the bible, but it's written in story form oh okay, a little bit. You know it's not 100, yeah, but it's easier to read I had a.

Speaker 2 54:48

I bought chase a book like that. It almost does it for the bible. It's called the crown. I can't remember. I see it sitting on his bed stand right now and I can't remember what it's exactly called. But it's kind of the same thing, like I haven't read, read it fully or anything.

Speaker 1 55:08

She's christian, oh yeah yeah, so she does, you know some a lot of non-fiction and then basically this is considered non-fiction but it's written regard. So you, yeah, like, oh, and then it makes you want to go back to read that just to see if it's accurate.

Speaker 3 55:29

What have we got time for some questions? Yeah, all right, so we'll start with a really tough one. So when we look at murderers, rapists, drug dealers, people in prison, et cetera, can we find true redemption in our modern world for those people?

Speaker 3 55:50

I think the whole serial killer comment earlier kind of you know or, you know, do you wish that they could experience God's mercy and forgiveness. So you know I'll, I'll just be like you know, I'll just be like you know if you watch. I know there was a series on Jeffrey Dahmer and they claim that he found God, and I would bet that a large percentage of people would say I don't think so. That's not possible.

Speaker 4 56:19

Right.

Jonah's Anger and God's Response

Speaker 3 56:21

So what do you think? Is it possible for somebody that has done such horrendous things that we can't even comprehend?

Speaker 4 56:28

what's possible?

Speaker 3 56:29

for any of us yes, so you know.

Speaker 4 56:33

Only god knows their heart and how truthful they are with their repentance, and for them to be asking and for him to forgive their sins. You know who are we to judge, although we do.

Speaker 3 56:48

We do.

Speaker 4 56:49

You know, just like even recently, this Jelly Roll and Brandon Lake, you know song that they've been doing together, and even on Christian radio they will say you know people are saying, well, look at his life, there's no possible way he's turned his life over to Christ. Who are we to say?

Speaker 3 57:08

Exactly, yeah, yeah, who are we to say?

Speaker 4 57:10

I mean, we've all backslidden. Oh exactly We've all committed sins since we've been saved, or at least I know I have. You know, every day.

Speaker 1 57:21

We sometimes have to repent and ask for that forgiveness I think it's easier if the you are, it's not a direct family member of yours that's been taken yeah, person yeah yeah for sure.

Speaker 3 57:33

Well, that's a great point.

Speaker 1 57:35

Yeah, well, even even as a christian, you know that's what you want for that you know? Yeah, you want them to be saved, you want them to know christ, but deep down, you don't. You know what I mean it's kind of a I don't, you don't believe it yeah

Speaker 2 57:51

don't believe that they don't ever yeah what's best for them.

Speaker 1 57:54

But you don't ever believe that, oh yeah I wish that was possible, but right exactly, but yeah, we tend to think that way. Sometimes we say but we need to remember, but God yeah right, yes.

Speaker 3 58:06

Yeah, absolutely. Have you ever had the experience of running from God's purpose for your life, only to find yourself doing the very thing or purpose down the line? So is there ever a time in your life you're like I just ain't ready for that, it's not what I want to do, don't have time, and then to find like that's exactly what you ended?

Speaker 2 58:36

up doing I know there's people that would say, yes, I. I just don't know if I'm that individual. You know what I mean? Yeah, what about you?

Speaker 3 58:50

I definitely think there's some things that I know aren't that are going to come back around again. I'll say that Okay, yeah.

Speaker 4 59:01

I will say like yeah, I still pass by.

Speaker 3 59:03

Yeah, yeah, there's things like you think like well, I passed that up once, so it never could happen again. But I try to keep that, you know, open, you know, because sometimes it's hard to decide, because you sometimes you really think like, okay, I truly believe, like this is not what God wants me to do right now.

Speaker 1 59:24

Mm-hmm.

Speaker 3 59:25

And you can have people be like well, you're just, you're just saying that because you don't want to do it Right. But I would have to say sometimes you know most things I'll pray about and I really want to come to a good conclusion about it, and so a lot of times I'll feel like this is not exactly I think either I'm not ready or it's not the right time you know, um, so I do try to take a really honest approach to that.

Speaker 3 59:47

I feel as though I do. Yeah, now am I just tricking myself because it's something I really don't want to do, right, um, but but it's a tough one sometimes because you I agree you know, because there's a season for everything.

Speaker 2 1:00:00

Yeah, and at the same, at the same time, you don't, it's, you almost don't want to go into everything like oh yeah. Yep, god's saying to do this, god's saying to do that, because then you're not even you're not going to him and praying and asking for guidance, and yeah, you almost have to be a little, you know yeah but have your foot in one side.

Speaker 3 1:00:19

Um, yeah, hot and cold, but I mean, I'm sure, as as soon as you're had, as you had your son, you know you wouldn't have like volunteered for all the things that you couldn't handle.

Speaker 3 1:00:31

Yeah, but you wouldn't you know yeah I don't think you know yeah you would have done that so I do think you know, just because there's some people like are like, yep, this is your time, people will tell you that and you can think like no, I don't know if it really is my time. So I think, if you're honestly praying about it and you have that relationship, with God you'll know. You'll know what's right and when's the right?

Speaker 3 1:00:50

time to do things. But I will say, though, that, just as with Jonahah, you know everything comes back around. You know, yeah, god has purpose for your life right uh, even if he didn't uh fulfill it in one way, he'll, you know as we say you know, god's plan b is better than our plan a right, yep, he'll figure it out right so he always does might not resemble the original plan I'm sure God's original plan wasn't to put Jonah into the belly of the fish, but just had to be done.

Speaker 3 1:01:23

Yep, how important is it to go beyond our comfort zone to fulfill God's purpose for our lives. Another tough one.

Speaker 4 1:01:43

He's been working through me lately on my finances, like you're going to do this and I'm like no God, I can't do that. You're going to do this, and you're going to do that, you're going to do this and you're going to do that, and I mean just crazy things that I would not have ever dreamed that I would feel comfortable doing that I've been doing, and that's you know, so.

Speaker 3 1:02:07

But because when you do let's be completely honest when you decide to tithe more, you immediately say I now I might not be able to pay that medical bill I got. Like I might not as have as much money for groceries.

Speaker 2 1:02:22

Or you get that $444 gas bill yeah.

Speaker 4 1:02:27

I mean, there were times in my life that I was living on pennies or I was robbing Peter to pay Paul, you know, didn't know how I was going to meet the bills and that type of thing. And now and still I'm like I'm definitely not well to do by any means, but I've never been a greedy person ever.

Speaker 4 1:02:43

Yeah, if I've got it and you need it, I'll give it to you yeah, you know, but he's really been stepping me out like yeah, yeah, so I'm just going with it sometimes that's just the enemy trying to get you oh yeah, not.

Speaker 3 1:02:55

To put that foot forward right as soon as you do it's, he's gonna find a way to discourage you, try to make you change your mind. So yeah, it's. Sometimes I think it's working outside your comfort zone long enough yes to you know yes, get over that hurdle to yeah to beat him back to where you can truly move forward and have control of that. I don't know why I wrote this one. What is the difference?

Speaker 4 1:03:30

between self-pity and true repentance. Well, self-pity, we're just feeling sorry for ourself.

Speaker 2 1:03:34

Yeah.

Speaker 4 1:03:35

You know I mean true repentance. You're owning.

Speaker 3 1:03:38

Maybe I wrote that down, because you know when Jonah says well, just kill me.

Speaker 4 1:03:41

Yeah, probably yeah, you know true repentance.

Speaker 2 1:03:49

We are owning our disobedience.

Speaker 4 1:03:50

They're almost like the pure opposite, really.

Speaker 2 1:03:51

Yeah, you know.

Speaker 1 1:03:53

Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 3 1:03:54

Yeah, yeah, I guess what I'm thinking is okay. So sometimes when you pray to God, you're praying for him to get you out of a situation because it's become so hard for you and it's coming down on you. So that's more of okay. You're coming to God because you can't take it anymore, not because you're truly ready to repent.

Speaker 2 1:04:16

Yes, yes.

Speaker 3 1:04:18

Yes, you're doing it more out of fear, or? Because the consequences are just too much for you and you have no options left. Yeah, to me that's more of a self-pity yeah Than coming to God with a full heart and saying I'm ready to repent.

Speaker 1 1:04:32

Yeah, yes, you know. Yeah, that's a good point, but don't you feel that God sometimes still answers those prayers?

Speaker 2 1:04:37

He does.

Speaker 1 1:04:38

Oh sure, yeah, yeah, oh yeah, and then to show you, I am here for you.

Speaker 3 1:04:44

Right, yeah, I'm sure that he still has control. Yeah, yeah, okay. When we have been fortunate enough to receive God's favor with continual blessing, how can we guard ourselves against pride, complacency, etc. How important is it to stay humble and give ourselves freely to those who have yet to be saved?

Speaker 1 1:05:20

Hmm, I'll read that one more time.

Speaker 4 1:05:26

I was going to say read the second part, for us. I was about to say so, just read it again. Nick, Would you read it again please?

Speaker 3 1:05:31

When we have been fortunate enough to receive God's favor with continual blessing, how can we guard ourselves against pride and complacency? So again, it's like, okay, you've been under the word for a long time, you've gone to church for a long time, you've got your badges, you've got your stars, you feel really good about yourself. How important is it to remember okay at one point, you know, my, my jacket was empty. I didn't have these ribbons, I didn't have these stars and stripes. You know, I was just a lowly.

Speaker 2 1:06:12

I was just a lowly private, you know yeah, I think we need to look at it that way, more than anything.

Speaker 4 1:06:21

We have to remember that we have to be aligned with God's heart, not our thoughts and feelings towards somebody we have to show God's love, not so much ours. Ours isn't always aligned with where it should be.

Speaker 3 1:06:35

No, and I'm going to. I don't know, maybe Jonah was born a prophet, or maybe he had to work towards that. Maybe at one point he was on the bottom totem pole and he worked himself up to you know, being in charge of that to doing that. So, I just think a lot of times. Yeah, we have to always remember. No matter how far we think we've come, you can't forget where you came from.

Speaker 4 1:06:58

Right, exactly.

Speaker 3 1:06:59

You know, you can't forget that, because you may. Uh, you, I don't see how you can help people that way.

Speaker 1 1:07:05

Yeah, Right. Well, I think that when you and we never fully come to.

Speaker 4 1:07:11

I mean cause, if we have, we're no longer going to be.

Speaker 3 1:07:14

We're no longer going to be here.

Speaker 4 1:07:15

Yeah right.

Exploring Questions About Faith and Judgment

Speaker 1 1:07:17

But I think you have to show those people that where you were, your testimony oh absolutely Absolutely. You know, share your testimony, so they see the work that God can do within you. Yeah, and still doing.

Speaker 4 1:07:34

Oh yeah, we're a piece of work doing, yeah, oh yeah we're we're a piece of work.

Speaker 2 1:07:39

I say this last I.

Speaker 1 1:07:41

I've just been in a. It's funny because his my word was wait yeah and I've been in this period of waiting and I don't like it because it's got me period. In this period of waiting, he's cleaning me up, he's breaking some things off of me, showing me some things about myself that I didn't think I had.

Speaker 3 1:08:01

Yeah, you know, and yeah, yeah, I wrote down a quote. Uh, serving god is not an earned position. No one qualifies for god's service, so that means it doesn't matter who you are, where you came from, if God decides to use you.

Speaker 4 1:08:23

He'll qualify you.

Speaker 3 1:08:24

Yeah, you're qualified.

Speaker 4 1:08:25

Right, that's all you need. Yeah, that's all you need.

Speaker 3 1:08:27

And if you look through the Bible, you'll see just that he uses all kinds of people in many, many different ways.

Speaker 1 1:08:34

What is that saying? I'll mess it up. He doesn't call the qualified, he qualifies.

Speaker 3 1:08:44

Yes, he calls Okay, so two more Can.

Speaker 4 1:08:53

A true Christian ever fulfill his purpose without compassion, as a mainstay in his or her tool belt.

Speaker 1 1:08:56

You got to have that compassion.

Speaker 3 1:08:58

So you're not just going to beat it out of them with the?

Speaker 4 1:09:00

word no no oh, absolutely not right right, and you might be the person who plants the seed, you might be the person who waters that seed, you. You might not be the person to get through them, but if you don't have love and compassion and kindness and yep, all those fruits of the Spirit, you're not going to.

Speaker 2 1:09:19

Yeah, you're not going to get anywhere with it.

Speaker 1 1:09:20

No, and you may plant that seed and never see anything out of it run into them 20 years later and be wow, you know.

Speaker 2 1:09:30

Yeah.

Speaker 1 1:09:32

What a change God has done in them you know?

Speaker 3 1:09:37

Okay, and the last one how important is it to pray at the most difficult times, in the most random of places and or with people you are not accustomed to pray with?

Speaker 2 1:09:53

I feel like it's really important, you know Well, yeah, I mean, that's God just pulling us out of our comfort zone.

Speaker 4 1:09:57

You know that's God just pulling us out of our comfort zone. And if we don't step out of that comfort zone?

Speaker 2 1:10:01

we're out of his will. Yeah, the reason you have that oomph is probably because he's telling you to do it anyway.

Speaker 4 1:10:07

Yes, if he's prodding you or giving you that discernment. Yes, yes, yeah.

Speaker 1 1:10:16

There was a girl at work that got a diagnosis, it's, it's a little scary for her Mm-hmm and uh. So I said, you know I'll, is it all right if I put you on my prayer list at church? And she's like yeah, and she's not one that I know that she's a question or I don't know, that she's not right. Right, um, it's just not something we ever discussed and it was like God was telling me you need to pray with her.

Speaker 1 1:10:37

You need to pray with her. So I kind of just put my hand on her shoulder. I said well, would you like me to pray right now? All timid, oh please.

Speaker 4 1:10:48

I'm like oh, god, yeah, god, give me the words, because I'll be stumbling all over mine, but you know what my heart was, you know my heart was in it, yeah.

Speaker 1 1:10:59

Mm-hmm. Yeah, but it's, you know it. Just it was an uncomfortable situation, oh yeah.

Speaker 3 1:11:03

Mm-hmm.

Speaker 2 1:11:04

But I did it, it might have been uncomfortable, because he was making you uncomfortable, you know.

Speaker 3 1:11:10

Yeah. Well, I think it's always just important to remember that God is with you in the most difficult of times or in times where you know most people are like, well, we go to church Yep, god's there. Yeah, we go to Bible study God's there. Uh, say my prayers at night, god's there. But if you're at work or you know anywhere else, it's like, oh, he's not there. Like people tend to forget.

Speaker 3 1:11:32

Right, but he is Even in those moments you know sometimes what may be our most mundane moments of our lives, and even in our most minute difficulty, he's there.

Speaker 2 1:11:47

Yeah.

Speaker 3 1:11:49

And he can help you through any situation, and sometimes that is when you'll get the most benefit from prayer.

Speaker 1 1:11:53

Yep.

Speaker 3 1:11:54

Is when you have that close relationship, as though you know when I'm on that truck working. You know on load and steal. He's up there on load and steal too. Yep Right, you know, so just whatever you're doing, it's like he's doing the same thing, and it's important to remember that and not just well, I can only do it if I get to Bible study tonight, or if I get to church tonight, or you know, if we, you know, say prayers at dinner, or you know no you anytime you know, in any situation you can.

Speaker 2 1:12:24

He's that hotline. He's there 24 seven yeah.

Speaker 3 1:12:26

Yeah, and you're the number one caller.

Speaker 2 1:12:28

Yeah.

Speaker 4 1:12:29

Yeah, he's not putting, he don't put you on hold. Nope, nope, no, he does not, he doesn't put you on hold.

Speaker 3 1:12:34

We put him on hold all the time. Absolutely, you know. But as Jonah teaches us, like he's always in a lot of these stories, it's like he's always ready at any moment to come back and show you mercy, no matter what you've done yeah. You know if you're not. You know, and of course it's not only that Jonah doesn't like these people, but they're not his people, they're not Israelites. You know, he doesn't. He doesn't view them as his people. So why should I have to preach to people that?

Speaker 2 1:13:06

to these people?

Speaker 3 1:13:07

yeah, to these people so it's always important, just to and aren't we all like that, though?

Speaker 2 1:13:14

you know, yeah, oh, absolutely. We don't want to say we are, but we are, yep yeah, all right, well, um, yeah, I think that's.

Speaker 3 1:13:24

Uh, yeah, I wrote a couple more, but I don't know.

Speaker 1 1:13:28

Oh, come on, throw another one out, oh well, let me see.

Closing Prayer

Speaker 3 1:13:31

What did I do. There's something I can read here. Hold on, hold on. I gotta read my own writing too. Right, just kind of scribble these as I as I think them. That's kind of generally how I've been doing this. As I'm reading the word, going through the story, then it'll trigger a question, a thought in mind. Can a person ever truly rely on conscience alone to make good decisions without consulting the word? And what I meant by that was okay, so you're a believer, you go to church, you do all these things. So is there ever a time in your life where you can say okay, I've done plenty of Bible study, I've been to church plenty of times, I've read the Bible 15, 20 times, I'm good, now I'm on my own.

Speaker 4 1:14:26

Oh, you're never on your own.

Speaker 3 1:14:27

Now I can fly this plane solo.

Speaker 1 1:14:29

No.

Speaker 3 1:14:30

Can you ever get to that point?

Speaker 4 1:14:32

Or is it always important that no matter how much— you better always be depending on our Savior Jesus Christ. We, you better always be depending on our Savior Jesus Christ.

Speaker 3 1:14:38

We better always be praying and depending on Always praying, always going back to the word, no matter how many times.

Speaker 2 1:14:42

You've never made it.

Speaker 3 1:14:43

Yeah right, yes, yeah.

Speaker 1 1:14:45

Well, not only that, this story is one to show us. No matter how many times we've heard this story, it's never applied to me like it has this time. Yeah, right, yeah exactly, yeah, right.

Speaker 2 1:14:58

Yeah, exactly, yeah, great point yeah.

Speaker 3 1:14:59

You can read the same story 20 times and get a different.

Speaker 4 1:15:02

Oh, absolutely, yep, yeah.

Speaker 2 1:15:04

Outcome or.

Speaker 4 1:15:05

Yeah, outlook on it, depending on what is going on in my life, many verses have meant different things to me, even though yeah.

Speaker 3 1:15:15

Yeah, so this one wasn't just, I think, bounced off of that, so should we ever cast lots except flip a coin to determine god's plan for us. Should we ever leave our salvation to chance? No, so so if you've got, so, if you've got something, you're trying to decide in life what you're going to do and you're like I don't really know what god wants for me. I want to slip a coin that'll and that'll show me what he wants pray and wait, no yeah sit and wait because god's timing and wait.

Speaker 4 1:15:48

God is always on time, so we better just pray about it and wait and wait.

Speaker 3 1:15:53

Yeah well, you know, we were kids, we'd flip a coin, absolutely.

Speaker 4 1:15:57

Like let's flip again.

Speaker 2 1:15:58

Yeah right.

Speaker 4 1:15:59

Best out of three. Flip it again.

Speaker 1 1:16:04

We're going to go out there and tell those NFL players we're not going to flip a coin, we're going to wait.

Speaker 3 1:16:09

We're going to wait, we're going to wait Until God decides who gets the ball. Are there any advantages to having a self-righteous attitude?

Speaker 1 1:16:28

that's a simple answer, but no right but do you sometimes, I think, self-righteous people are so overconfident?

Speaker 4 1:16:37

oh yeah, absolutely first thing I thought of.

Speaker 1 1:16:40

Yes, yeah and not. I'd like to be a little bit more confident in myself, but I don't want to be self-righteous, no yeah, no, I like that okay yeah, there's a difference between confidence and who you are in god.

Speaker 3 1:16:57

God and becoming self-righteous. Right, exactly yes, where you don't even counsel him anymore.

Speaker 4 1:17:01

You just think well.

Speaker 3 1:17:02

I'm going to judge that person based on how important I think I am in the kingdom. Yeah. Yeah, that's a no-no, that's a no-no, no. Well, and then okay. So this last question I wrote down, it kind of ties right in with that. So then, what ways can our own disobedience harm the attitudes and actions of others around us? So I guess, if you think about it, if Jonah doesn't do no matter what God does to him, if he doesn't do what God wants him to do, then the people of Nineveh are never saved.

Speaker 1 1:17:43

They never hear the word Right.

Speaker 2 1:17:48

Yeah, and that's our salvation, you know.

Speaker 1 1:17:52

Right.

Speaker 2 1:17:53

It's a big deal.

Speaker 3 1:17:55

That's the example we set. Is that you know?

Speaker 2 1:18:01

I only do what God wants me to do, what I want to do, what I want, right?

Speaker 3 1:18:04

yeah, yeah, that's no way to to be this relationship is a one-way street right which you know you're my genie, yeah yeah, yep, yeah and you see that a lot.

Speaker 1 1:18:20

I mean, you do see, you do, yeah, yeah, I, I can remember somebody that claimed to be an atheist and we were having an audit at work, so we're pulling things out, going through the chart and she's like oh please, lord, let it be in here. And I'm thinking like really, wait a minute. Wait a minute we need you to explain yes yes, yes, yeah, you don't.

Speaker 1 1:18:47

You know, you claim there is no god, there's no this, but now you need him big time, so please let him let that paper be in there explain that to me, because yeah that's funny.

Speaker 3 1:19:05

Well, I think that's all I got. Does anybody else got anything you want to share or anything to button up in this episode?

Speaker 1 1:19:13

no, I just think it was a really good one yeah, it was. It was really good.

Speaker 3 1:19:17

I liked it a lot yeah that's what I really enjoy is just digging into some of these stories and these people's experiences and really just getting to the heart of yes, you know the core of it and just seeing how it's still, because I'm I really think people think this doesn't apply anymore, because these stories are old. They're fables to them Like in the fish that's a fable, it's not because it can't be possible.

Speaker 4 1:19:49

So they can't find any use for it in their everyday life. But just like in Luke the New Testament, the sign of Luke 11, 29,. As the crowd pressed in on Jesus, he said this evil generation keeps asking me to show them a miraculous sign, but the only sign I will give them is the sign of Jonah.

Speaker 3 1:20:10

So he's saying it's already there, I don't need to perform these miracles.

Speaker 4 1:20:14

No, all you need to do is read the word Three days, yep. Yeah, in three days, yep. All you need to do is read the word Three days. In three days, I'll be crucified, buried and I'll rise again.

Speaker 2 1:20:27

That's basically how we started the three days. The three days interpretation Very good. You guys both weren't here last week, I assume it's probably my turn, because I missed a couple wednesdays. I think I prayed last week, didn't I?

Speaker 4 1:20:49

pretty sure I know you guys were talking about it and it went back to roger, but yeah, it went back to roger and then oh, yeah, but but, you're wrong, but I'm sure it. But I'm sure it's my turn, all right.

Speaker 1 1:21:00

All right, let me get it on here.

Speaker 4 1:21:07

Dear precious Heavenly Father, we come to you with thankful hearts. We thank you that you are a merciful God. You're a patient God that nothing that we do takes you by surprise. You know all of our messes and you know our hearts. You never turn your back on us.

Speaker 4 1:21:27

If we feel alone, it is because we have left you. You have not left us and, lord God, your timing is the perfect timing. You're never early, you are never late and no matter what we have done and no matter what sins we have committed, lord Jesus, we just need to know that all we need to do is repent and ask for your forgiveness. Our Savior's arms are always open and all we need to do is run to our Father. We're always open. All we need to do is run to our Father. Lord God, let us put all of our hope into you, lord Jesus. You are our cornerstone. Lord, lord Jesus, just thank you that you give us this opportunity, that we have this podcast, that we can reach people who have never heard about you. Lord Jesus, lord, we just thank you and we honor you and we praise you and we ask for traveling graces to get us home safely and to bring us back at our next appointed time and all these things we ask and pray in your son's most precious and holy name, amen.