What Does Your Heaven Look Like?

What do you picture when you imagine heaven? Floating on clouds with angels? Reuniting with loved ones? Streets of gold and gates of pearl? In this thoughtful conversation, we explore how our vision of heaven evolves throughout our spiritual journey.

Many of us grew up with comforting images of heaven as the ultimate family reunion - a place where we'd recognize loved ones just as they were on Earth. But as we mature spiritually, these simplistic visions often give way to deeper questions. What does Scripture actually say about heaven? Will we recognize each other? Will we continue to serve God with purpose?

Diving into Revelation's vivid descriptions, we unpack heaven's physical attributes - walls adorned with precious stones, gates made of single pearls, and streets of pure gold. Yet more profound than these material wonders is the promise that God's very presence will illuminate this eternal home, eliminating the need for sun or moon.

Perhaps most challenging is the realization that heaven may not match our earthly expectations. As one host reflects, "I want to put my faith in the fact that whatever God has for me after I pass from the earth, that's okay." This spiritual maturity means trusting God's eternal plan even when it doesn't align with our personal preferences.

Whatever heaven holds, Scripture promises one certainty: "He will wipe every tear from their eyes. There will be no more death or mourning or crying or pain." In a world where we're constantly battling hardship, that promise alone sustains us through our earthly journey. What's your vision of heaven, and how has it changed as you've grown?

Transcript

Casual Holiday Week Conversation

Speaker 1 0:37

thing on this subject.

Speaker 2 0:38

So well, it's just a fun, relaxed one yeah I, I honestly didn't have to study for this one. Yeah, I honestly didn't either.

Speaker 3 0:45

Um, you know it's a short week for everybody. Hopefully it's a short week for everybody yeah, I have a couple that I have to see, but I won't have a long day or anything that does make it busier, at least in my profession, because now everybody wakes up like, oh my goodness, we're not working friday, we need our stuff, yeah. So then everybody's trying to get their material before the holiday. It's like, come on, people uh, the water is on okay, I'll let you need to give us like a signal when we're live.

Speaker 2 1:23

You know like right, no, no, no, no, ddt, then it wouldn't be fun yeah, yeah, but sometimes, when we get talking, okay, we're live, oh we are, we're on. Yeah, ddt we're on, we're live.

Speaker 3 1:40

Oh, we are, we're on. Is that what that little signal was? Ddt, we're on.

Speaker 4 1:43

We are live.

Speaker 3 1:47

No, I was running late because I saw this clip for CBS News. It was about the Gettysburg test and the whole. It was all about the fact that it is officially considered the hardest test ever, like ever.

Speaker 1 2:08

Wow.

Speaker 3 2:08

That's how they're projecting it. So I was like, all right, it was like a four-minute clip. So I thought, okay, I gotta watch this before I leave. Sure enough, I'm not interviewed anything like that. But sure enough, they got the backside of me bald head. I'm not interviewed anything like that, but sure enough, they got the backside of me bald head.

Speaker 3 2:25

I'm like are you kidding me? And it's like real quick. So I would probably only know it's me. But I'm thinking really, that's the clip you got. You couldn't have got a nice shot from the front.

Speaker 4 2:35

So much for your 15 seconds of fang. Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1 2:43

So I was like well, there's my bald head on cbs.

Speaker 3 2:45

Are you planning on? Have you scheduled another one? Well, you don't schedule it. They, they decide. Oh so it could be years, but it was. It was interesting to watch it because the people that they did interview they were like, yep, this is my third time and it was even harder, I think, than the last two times. So, wow, yeah, well, and I was watching just some of the people's approach to the whole thing and it was even harder.

Speaker 3 3:02

I think, than the last two times. Wow, yeah, and I was watching just some of the people's approach to the whole thing, Like this one lady. She had one wall of her I don't know if it's her living room or just the room in her house, but the whole wall. She had drawn a map on it of the whole battle.

Speaker 2 3:21

Yeah, I was like wow, that's intense you know what people have been making banners for, like birthday parties, but they project a projector on their wall and then put a banner there. I wonder if that's what she did I think.

Speaker 3 3:36

No, it looked like she was actually drawing on there I don't know and she had all these pictures, you know, so she could identify all these people, and they said it was just like really intense, like wow. You know, I don't take it to that level.

Speaker 1 3:48

Yeah, yeah, margie would have you oh yeah, come home.

Speaker 3 3:51

I got a magic marker across the wall.

Speaker 4 3:54

Hey honey, here's a little round top.

Speaker 3 3:56

Here's Devil's Den.

Speaker 4 3:58

You better make it a dry erase.

Speaker 3 3:59

Yeah, yeah yeah, she's like oh yeah, where's the cemetery? Right here. Yeah, well that's where you're going to be.

Speaker 2 4:07

We should mention Roger's not here. Have we done that? Nope, not yet. Yes, he was working out of town today and didn't think he would be back in time, so that's why he's going to be super quiet today.

Speaker 3 4:18

Yes, Extra quiet Extra quiet. But anyway, yeah, it's a short week for all of us. It's holiday weekend. It's going to get hot again, yeah, but I think the rain is finally gone, uh-huh, which is good.

Speaker 2 4:32

Yeah.

Speaker 3 4:32

Which is good.

Speaker 2 4:34

Felt like it was lingering around forever. Yeah.

Speaker 3 4:36

Yeah, so unfortunately I got to start my holiday weekend by mowing the lawn. Want to have it done beforehand, but so it goes.

Speaker 2 4:44

It is what it is.

Speaker 3 4:45

Yeah, so, but looking forward to it.

Speaker 4 4:49

I even might mow this evening when I get home.

Speaker 1 4:52

You were mowing the other morning or the other evening? Was it in the morning? I don't know when.

Speaker 4 4:56

It was that backyard that grass grows so fast.

Speaker 1 5:00

No, it was when your family left.

Speaker 4 5:03

Sunday.

Speaker 1 5:05

It was Sunday evening. I'm like I'm going to go buy my you-go-girl yeah this humidity.

Speaker 3 5:10

It just makes it go crazy.

Speaker 2 5:11

Yeah, my neighbor was weed eating at like 740 this morning. I'm like yeah.

Speaker 3 5:19

I mean, do it before it gets hot, you know.

Speaker 1 5:22

Yeah, absolutely yeah. Morning I'm like yeah, I mean yeah, before it gets hot, you know, yeah, absolutely yeah. I can remember one time jarvey and I had this little tiff about you know he didn't help me in the house, whatever, you know he's like well you don't help me mow the grass. I thought I'll fix you. I got up at six in the morning, mowed that grass before I left for work. He came home and he's like what did you do? It's all clumped together. You can't move when it's wet.

Speaker 2 5:46

Oh yeah, you're like dewy and everything it's done.

Speaker 4 5:52

Dishes in the sink waiting for you. They're waiting. Have we mentioned what?

Speaker 2 5:56

today's topic is no, so we're just going to have a nice relaxed. They're waiting. Have we mentioned what today's topic is? No?

Speaker 3 6:04

So we're just going to have a nice relaxed conversation today. We didn't have to study hard for this one, even though I couldn't resist. But dig in a little bit, we'll miss the one. Find some things. I started thinking about Revelation today and kind of what it mentioned about it. So I had to at least go into that a little bit.

Speaker 2 6:23

I almost did. But then I'm like well, I don't know.

Speaker 3 6:25

We said we're not gonna do much research, I'm not going to so yeah, you can take it away, yeah so officially, we're just going to go around discuss what everybody's vision of heaven is, what their heaven uh will be if get there, when we get there.

Discussing Our Personal Visions of Heaven

Speaker 4 6:43

Yeah, when, when we get there and I kind of think, at least for me.

Speaker 3 6:47

it's interesting that it's kind of changed from the time I was little to being a young adult and now, being in my 40s, it does at least for me, that vision has kind of changed. So I think that in itself is kind of interesting. That is yeah, At least for me. That vision has kind of changed.

Speaker 2 7:04

So I think that in itself is kind of interesting, that is yeah.

Speaker 3 7:07

But yeah, so we'll just kind of go around and share If you have any kind of I don't know if anybody has any, maybe unique ideas, you know, maybe isn't, you know, because there's, you know, kind of the standard, I want to say american idea of what, yeah, like heaven is, and everything pearly gates and, yeah, streets of gold and I think the big one for me, uh, when I was a kid, you know, uh that's what I was like both my both my both, my grand, my uh, but paternal and maternal grandfathers had already passed before I was born.

Speaker 2 7:42

Okay.

Speaker 3 7:43

And my grandmas didn't live very long either. So I was at the cemetery a lot from a young age and of course you know, my mom would be there and she'd be talking about the family and her parents. Their stone was in one section and then, where my parents had bought, their plot was just across the way, and the way they always explained it was well, come Judgment Day, when the dead are raised, they'll rise up and they'll be able to see each other.

Speaker 3 8:16

So that was kind of the point sometimes of that's why families wanted to be buried as close together as possible is so on that judgment day you know they'll be able to find each other sure they'll just be able to rise up and look across and there they'll be yeah so I kind of I kind of grew up with that idea in my head like oh that's. That's how it's going to be you know that we'll all recognize each other as we are, whether it's maybe in the prime of our life or however we left, I don't know.

Speaker 3 8:44

But, it was just always that idea that that's kind of like. The first idea of heaven that I had was just oh, yeah heaven's going to be all about being reunited with your loved ones and you're going to spend, you know, and of course, your loved ones are looking down on everything that you do and they're waiting on you. And so you know, and of course, your loved ones are looking down on everything that you do and they're waiting on you, and so you know. I kind of grew up with that kind of yes.

Speaker 3 9:07

You know that vision, with that idea.

Speaker 2 9:10

And now? Now, what's the Well? Fast forward to the present.

Speaker 3 9:16

You know, let's see. My mom's been gone 15 years. I think my dad will be gone six years this October and it's crazy because they died like it was almost 10 years, but one day apart from each other. So, October 14th, October 15th. So they almost died on the same day.

Speaker 2 9:38

Isn't that how Alyssa's mom?

Speaker 3 9:39

and-. Is that right?

Speaker 2 9:41

Yes, Is it grandma or I can't remember, but it's her mom.

Speaker 4 9:48

Her mom is another very important person in her life. Yes, yeah.

Speaker 3 9:53

Mm-hmm. So I guess one thing that has changed for me and I don't look at this not necessarily like in a negative way, like I'm not depressed about it, but sometimes I do wonder like, okay, that's because you don't see that in the Bible. I don't think that's mentioned in the Bible, like you're going to recognize your family and that's how you're going to spend your time.

Speaker 3 10:23

So I guess how can I put this Like? I want to put my faith in the fact that whatever God has for me after I pass from the earth, that it's okay. It's okay for me if I never see my parents again, like if I get to heaven, and that's not what it is Right. Right, like I'm okay with that.

Speaker 2 10:45

Yeah, I've had thoughts like that too.

Speaker 3 10:48

Yeah, yeah, so I don't. I guess I don't hang my hat on that. Yeah, I want to get to heaven, so I can see my parents again.

Speaker 2 10:59

Right.

Speaker 3 11:09

Like. I realize now being older and getting more into the word that perhaps you know that's. That may not be how heaven is structured, and you know God, who knows? You know, when I pass from this world is my work truly done?

Speaker 2 11:18

Right, and I was just about to say, we're once again looking at heaven, or our faith, you know, as almost, like, almost in a selfish way, like, oh well, when I'm in heaven, I'm going to be all put together? Again and I'm going to be seeing my friends and family that I've missed for so much. But what if we're not done? You know what if? What if we have? That's not God's plan for how heaven works.

Speaker 3 11:40

Yeah, and you know, and you get reading into revelation a little bit and you kind of get that feeling like, okay, maybe that's not, that's not the point of heaven, that's not what we'll be doing. You know, um, when we get there, it's not, it's not going to be just like a constant family reunion, like you'd imagine it down at the park, something like that. Right, so yeah. So I've just gotten to that point where I try to just be like, okay, you know this, you know, I don't know. I know a few things about heaven from what the Bible tells me, but I but I don't know exactly what it's going to be and I can have my hopes, but I'm not going to hang my hat on kind of those ideas that I carried with me when I was young.

Speaker 2 12:20

Yeah, that's understandable.

Speaker 3 12:22

So it's just another way of you know you're accepting God's will for what your life's going to be not in this world, but the next world as well. This is kind of I don't know if I should share this, but I've told several people. I said, you know, I said I'd be because some people were like there ain't no way I'd do that I'd be perfectly okay if God was like okay, you're going to go to battle.

Speaker 3 12:50

You're going to be part of that battle and the revelation. If God would have that kind of mission for me, to have to experience that part of it, I'd be like, okay, that's what I'm going to do then it might not be time for me to rest. When you get there, when I get experience that part of it, I'd be like, okay, that's what. I'm going to do, then you know it may, it might not be time for me to rest when you get there.

Speaker 3 13:08

When I get there, there might be more to do because you know it talks about the war in heaven.

Speaker 2 13:10

It talks about all those things.

Speaker 3 13:11

I think, well, if that's what I have to do, that's what it comes to, Okay, then I want to be prepared for that too.

Speaker 2 13:17

Yeah.

Speaker 3 13:17

Like I said, said I never want to go into heaven. Thinking self, being selfish, like just thinking about all the things I want right, you know so. So that's one maybe kind of unique thing for me is that I just I try not to just focus on what I want out of heaven my mom used to have a vision of coming back on a horse in the battle, and she used to dream that all the time. Yeah.

Speaker 4 13:46

Yeah.

Speaker 3 13:47

Huh.

Speaker 2 13:50

That would like give you chills, I think, when she would tell you yes, oh my yes.

Speaker 4 13:54

Yeah.

Speaker 3 13:54

Was she very descriptive.

Speaker 4 13:56

Oh, the color of the horse, the whole nine yards yes.

Speaker 3 13:58

That's cool yeah.

Speaker 2 14:01

Now, nick, I have to ask um like did you ever want to go into the service or the military?

Speaker 3 14:09

I think at the time when I was young. No, but I wish I would have done it. Now, looking back, I kind of think I probably would have fit in. Yeah, I probably would have been good at it, and I kind of wish I would have done it. I wasn't sure, I think I could probably be retired right now if I would have you know if I'd have done that.

Speaker 3 14:25

Yeah, the one number one um but yeah because I've always had an interest. You know, and just you know, the whole military thing, the civil war yeah, that kind of thing you know and have an interest in one thing and actually doing is quite another for sure, don't get me wrong yeah. But yeah, I sometimes have thought, maybe I should have.

Speaker 2 14:44

Oh I I've always thought that I mean off, off topic, but I mean it's always been in the back of my brain since like 14 or something, because I'm like, well, my grandpa served, dad served, and I'm like, well, I'm the tomboy of the family, but we're all girls, so I guess, like I could serve, and my dad's like, well, if you do, don't go into the army. But I mean, yeah, I still look at it that way, you know. I'm like, well, yeah, I don't know, I guess it's technically not too late for me, but that'd be kind of hard. But I just wasn't sure because of your love for history and the way that you're you know, looking you know, because I talked to some people.

Speaker 3 15:20

I'm'm like is it silly that, or is it, even If you've never been in the service? If you've never been in combat. Is it silly that you study wars and people that have and I want to say past judgment, but you got your own ideas about why they won or lost and you know we talk about all those things when you get in groups with you know, especially with the battle of gettysburg.

Speaker 3 15:43

You know why. You know why lee lost, and you get into all these topics of what he should have done, right, you know, and you think, like you know, like you're an armchair general now after the fact, and he should have done this, should he done that? And people get into these long, hard debates about it and it's like, is that kind of silly? Because you know, I've never been in the service myself, I've never experienced it, and is it only people that have actually done that worthy of talking about it?

Speaker 2 16:12

I don't know because I can.

Speaker 3 16:13

There's still many things I can learn from it that I use every day in my life and what I do.

Speaker 2 16:18

Yeah.

Speaker 3 16:19

So it does have its uses, yeah, but, but yeah, I, I might have missed a boat on that one.

Speaker 2 16:27

I just wasn't sure.

Speaker 3 16:27

Maybe not, maybe, you know. Like I said, no-transcript. Like you know, he works through people and he needs certain people to do certain things and he can definitely look into somebody's makeup and their character and yeah be like well, yeah, he probably be a good good, good fit for that yeah, never know the calm before the storm, yeah but, uh, but I guess, if, if, if I got to choose what you know, if I got to heaven, the lord's like okay, whatever, whatever you want to do, whatever you choose, that's what you'll have.

Speaker 3 17:18

I think we were talking before we left last week. Yeah, I'd probably go for that quiet small log cabin somewhere up in the mountains.

Speaker 2 17:24

Yep, yep, me too, me too.

Speaker 3 17:26

And as long as I had just shelves and shelves of books that I could read all day long. Yep, nice calm river, yes something, or some shade trees, and you know I could do that. I I guess, yeah, I could do that every day yeah, you know I could live that life every day and not not get bored no so it'd be as simple as that for me. I wouldn't, you know?

Speaker 3 17:51

and yeah, I'd like to be surrounded by the people I love and things like that, but no, I wouldn't. I don't think I'd need too much, especially if we didn't have the weight of the world on our shoulders.

Speaker 2 18:02

And you know the, the push and just the push of the world and like, yeah, like I could be in that cabin all day. And like, oh, am I going to fish today, or am I going to hunt? Am I? Going to kayak, or am I going to float the river? You know what I mean, like that didn't have to worry about anything else.

Speaker 3 18:17

I'd be like once in a while I can just thunderstorm all day.

Speaker 2 18:19

That'd make me happy.

Speaker 4 18:20

Me too, I love a thunderstorm.

Speaker 3 18:23

I love an evening thunderstorm sitting on the porch and.

Speaker 2 18:27

I love a thunderstorm in the middle of the day, not like just raining all day yeah, I've always been a sky watcher, so I love to watch the clouds rolling in speaking of?

Speaker 3 18:38

was it yesterday or day before they were rolling in like crazy oh, yeah, they're doing pretty quick, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, I get you. Yeah, just a nice afternoon storm that rolls through real quick, and yeah, absolutely. But yeah, I'd be pretty simple. I don't need any crowns or jewels or a mansion. I don't want a big mansion I can get lost in, or have to clean, have to clean, yeah, exactly. Which way do I?

Speaker 4 19:03

turn Right or left? How do I get to my bedroom? Yeah, we will never sleep. Probably We'll never need to sleep.

Speaker 3 19:10

But of course you know, if I choose the small cabin and all that and then, yeah, I am with my loved ones. So Margie's there, guess what? The small cabin's going to be full of cats. That might not be a good idea. I might need a little bigger place.

Speaker 2 19:28

Maybe they got to have their own little sanctuary. They'll have their own little cabin right. They'll have their own little sanctuary out there with automatic feeders. No, right now I'm picturing like an old, like 1800s, cabin for them. And then a big, nice cabin for you guys like more updated. That could be their little hut yeah.

Speaker 3 19:47

Yeah, yeah, and kind of live in that. I know it's. You know, I'm sure it was a lot harder than what I imagined it to be, and I know it was. But maybe just kind of live in that 19th century lifestyle before things got too complicated. You know, I don't even think I don't need a TV. I don't even think I need TV and all the technology and all that. I think I could let all that go. Yeah, I'd be fine with that.

Speaker 2 20:12

It's like if I lived at a house that didn't have service. Like my aunt lives somewhere and she does not have service and she has to buy a hot spot and pay for it monthly. I'm like I simply wouldn't. Like you can contact me on top of the hill when I reached the top of the hill to go to Philly. Other than that, I don't know what to tell you. You didn't know where to find me, Yep Send the postman.

Speaker 1 20:37

Yep, I don't know Dawn better be next door to me.

Speaker 3 20:40

You ain't ever getting rid of her Dawn.

Speaker 1 20:41

Right.

Speaker 4 20:42

No never, well, never yes.

Speaker 1 20:43

Listen, she's the one that moved two doors down for me. Yeah, she was there first.

Speaker 4 20:47

Yeah, she was there first.

Speaker 3 20:50

You didn't know what you were getting yourself into.

Speaker 4 20:52

That's fair.

Speaker 1 20:55

She figured that out back in first grade.

Speaker 4 20:57

You know, as a kid I think I envisioned it kind of cartoonish, like what you saw in the cartoons, you know, the little charms floating around on the cloud, the staircase to heaven. You know so. But yeah, and now, like when I'm at the ocean and the sun is rising or the sun is setting, when you get that reflection of the sun on the water, I just always think up there's my staircase to heaven. You know, every time I see that, yeah, is a thought that I have. And as a kid I thought running through the flowers, yeah, just running through a field of flowers or sitting on clouds, clouds yes, yeah, yeah, yeah yeah yeah

Speaker 1 21:36

yeah, so I think as a child that's what I envisioned. I don't know where you know that running to the flowers and but all our lost pets, yeah yeah, yeah, yes charlie, I'll get to see this, yeah I?

Speaker 2 21:51

Yeah, I forgot about that. Yeah, well, you know that's a cover who hasn't told their child yeah right.

Speaker 4 21:59

The pet passed over the rainbow bridge Right right.

Speaker 2 22:02

Yeah, we'll see him again yes, and that was one of the more important things to yourself when you were a kid.

Speaker 3 22:08

You know what I mean? Oh, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2 22:16

Nothing can break your heart like a no, yeah pad. So yep, yeah, absolutely. I feel like when I was a kid it was more like almost personalized, like, oh well, I, there's gonna be animals everywhere, because, like I was a huge animal lover I mean I still am, maybe not as much as margie, no, no, um, but like that and I don't know, I I always pictured like I, I guess, like more I guess, whenever I'm looking at the clouds, like when I was little, I would kind of picture heaven to be right above the clouds you know what I mean.

Speaker 4 22:44

Yes, same um yes, but yeah or look like looking at the night sky yeah stars and the moon.

Speaker 4 22:49

It's like, yes, it's, it's right there speaking of the moon, the guy like the, the man in the moon, that's always what would yeah trigger that yeah that was kind of like intertwined with the heaven on, on my end, I think, but you know and and speaking of our loved ones, knowing whether or not we're going to know our loved ones or whatever. You know years of working in the medical field and seeing people pass. Yeah, they are talking to their loved ones. They are, oh, yeah, yes, good point. So I truly believe that our loved ones are welcoming us into heaven that they are there.

Speaker 3 23:27

Yeah, well, my mom was passing away. She thought I was her dad.

Speaker 2 23:33

Like always looking in a corner, yes, always looking up, and yes, my, my grandpa would do that and cooper and him were looking at the same.

Speaker 4 23:41

It was chilling you know and they're well, and as a child you know who knows what cooper may have exactly, exactly listen.

Speaker 4 23:48

My daughter tells me a story. Now, I was pregnant for my daughter when my dad's mom, my grandmother Reed, was passing away and I was sitting on her bed in the nursing home. And my daughter tells me a story where she was sitting on the bed with the dog, with Aunt Nettie. I said we don't have an Aunt Nettie. She said I was on her bed with the dog and tells me the outfit she was wearing and I said you don't have an Aunt Nettie. I said my grandmother's name was Nettie, but she was like two years old when she started telling me this story. I've heard of stories like that, but I was pregnant for her, sitting on the bed with the dog, with my grandmother Nettie. It's crazy. I can't remember what we did in high school and my daughter's telling me things that she did when she was in the womb.

Speaker 2 24:44

Yeah, and it's crazy that you can recall what she was talking about, like, oh yeah, I was there too. Yeah, yeah, I'm like no, you Like no, you weren't even born yet, so yeah, quite odd. Yeah, but I feel like that does tell us something like yeah, whether or not we're going to be with them forever, we're probably going to have some sort of interaction with them, right, hopefully at some point when we're up.

Speaker 4 25:08

Yes, or in the process, you know nowhere. But I thought I read somewhere that we will recognize or know, but we won't, like you said. We won't be right like in our own little yeah, family groups. We won't be, but we will know each other.

Speaker 2 25:23

Yeah, if we knew each other here, yeah maybe like in the same neighborhood, right right, not living together.

Speaker 3 25:29

Thank, god right, there will be no husbands and wives or whatever, yeah, right, yeah, yeah yeah, yeah I often wonder like are we going to have an appetite, right, do we get hungry? Do we get hungry? Or if we enjoy food, yeah right if we enjoy food.

Speaker 4 25:44

Are we going to stay skinny fruits and nuts fruits and nuts berries, not game right yeah, yeah, like is there going to be, you know trees or can we get the fruit off of the tree and we've always thought what that we're going to be like the age of Christ when he like thirties 33 or whatever.

Speaker 2 26:05

Yeah, yeah so yeah, like Nick, like you said, like your prime, almost like how people would recognize you at that point, maybe yeah almost like how people would recognize you at that point.

Speaker 3 26:19

maybe, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah I. I was talking to a pastor one time and not gonna mention his name, but well, I can't remember the whole conversation, but more or less he was trying to explain to me that we would, we wouldn't be visually, you and I, we, we would be just like this form, and so we would recognize people, but not in our form, we would recognize, like their personality or their spirit.

Speaker 3 26:41

And I was like tried to envision that. And I was like, well, right, so that was always been a hard one. I was like well, what do you mean?

Speaker 2 26:49

Just like a I've heard like the blue man.

Speaker 3 26:52

Right the blue man group.

Speaker 2 26:53

Yes, Just like you know, yeah.

Speaker 3 26:55

Like what are you talking about?

Speaker 2 26:57

But yeah, yeah, or I'm picturing right now, like that Facebook icon, like that blue one Do you know what I'm talking about? The bluish gray Like a silhouette of a head, oh yeah.

Speaker 3 27:10

Yeah, that's what I'm picturing a head and oh yeah, yeah, that's what I'm picturing just like a blank profile.

Speaker 2 27:17

Yeah right, yeah, I don't know that doesn't make sense.

Speaker 3 27:18

Personalities, maybe with all. I mean when you, when you think about all the in revelation, they do describe a lot of the beautiful things you will see yes I can't imagine that we would be just a blob meaning right, right or all the same, yeah, yeah yeah, I can't imagine.

Speaker 1 27:35

That, but no, I think my vision of heaven now is it goes by, everybody says the bright light, but I think it's just going to be so bright and warm and peaceful and I think we're just going to be so consumed with just worshiping him. Oh absolutely Worship songs all the time.

Speaker 4 27:56

Yeah, that's what Revelation says yes and no hurt Hopefully he does something with this voice of mine, because I always feel bad for the people standing in front of me during Sunday. Because I'm bellowing buddy, I'm singing out.

Speaker 2 28:07

I was thinking that on Sunday I'm holding Cooper. I'm like, lord, I'm sorry cooper, like I am a terrible singer and he's up front I mean, his ear is right by my mouth and I'm like, oh, buddy, I'm so tone deaf. No, I yeah like, right now I picture it as like no more hurt, no more sorrow, oh, absolutely, and the bible says that, and and clearly with what comes with that is just pleasant people that are smiling all the time and living yeah.

Speaker 4 28:37

Negativity yeah.

Speaker 2 28:38

Living to the fullest, I guess.

Speaker 3 28:40

No drama yeah.

Speaker 4 28:41

Right yeah. No anxiety, no depression, no.

Speaker 3 28:45

Yeah, not constantly solving problems.

Speaker 4 28:48

No mourning, no crying yeah.

Speaker 3 28:50

Yeah, yeah. Well, it even says you know that there will be. There will be no need for night or day.

Speaker 4 28:58

Right, right, right, because that light.

Speaker 3 29:00

God's light will be just, you know, 24, seven, that's all we need.

Speaker 2 29:05

Well, and then that that makes me think, when it says that, like there will be no need for night or day, okay, so then maybe we won't be working, you know, like maybe there won't be days or months and hours just like a time.

Speaker 3 29:16

There is no time. We're not going to be looking at time right, we gotta be here and there to you know, yeah, there's no structure yeah, yeah, yeah, we'll just

Speaker 4 29:24

pray that I'll never be tired again.

Speaker 2 29:27

Yeah, yeah seriously, yeah, what, uh, what kind what? What do you have open?

Speaker 3 29:38

This is Revelation 7-9. And I think this is where it does describe well. It describes the great multitudes in the white robes. So these are all the people that had been faithful to God throughout the generations, all the true believers, and it's speaking about what, what they'll be doing in heaven. I'll read through it a little bit. After this, I looked and there before me was a great multitude that no one could count, from every nation, every tribe, and there before me was a great multitude that no one could count, from every nation, every tribe, people and language standing before the throne and in front of the Lamb. So there's a good clue. So you've got people from every nation, tribe, language. So if they're recognizing it as such, well then maybe you know, we will see.

Speaker 2 30:34

You know, you will see that's true differences and english people, chinese people right.

Speaker 4 30:40

Different skin tones, different colors. Yes, you will see.

Revelation's Description of Heaven

Speaker 3 30:42

every type of you know nationality, every tribe, every kind type of person has ever existed. That was true to the lord will be reflected. So that's a good. They were wearing white robes and were holding palm branches in their hands and they cried out in a loud voice salvation belongs to our God, who sits on the throne, and to the lamb. All the angels were standing around the throne and around the elders and the four living creatures. They fell down on their faces before the throne and worshiped God, saying Amen, praise and glory and wisdom and thanks and honor and power and strength be to our God forever and ever. Amen.

Speaker 3 31:25

Then one of the elders asked me these in white robes, who are they and where did they come from? I answered you know. And he said these are they who have come out of the great tribulation. They have washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the lamb. Therefore, they are before the throne of God and serve him night, day and night in his temple, and he who sits on the throne will spread his tent over them. Never again will they hunger, never again will they thirst. The sun will not beat upon them, nor any scorching heat. For the lamb at the center of the throne will be their shepherd. He will lead them to springs of living water and God will wipe away every tear from their eyes. So there's a little indication of what we'll be doing in heaven on a daily basis there, that it will be a constant. You know we'll be doing in heaven on a daily basis there that it will be a constant.

Speaker 3 32:16

You know we'll be in constant worship.

Speaker 4 32:17

Worship.

Speaker 3 32:21

But yeah, so there was that little clue there at the beginning that maybe does tell us that we will recognize people as individuals.

Speaker 2 32:31

This is kind of stating that in heaven, you know, we're not going to be the same. Almost as if, like a, a kernel or a seed of some sort becomes a full-grown wheat plant. So it's similar, almost like a caterpillar becoming a butterfly you know like transformation. Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 3 32:55

Okay, I don't know, then I've also got, if you go on to revelation 21 and this is, let me see 21 16 then I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away. So that gives us a clue that not only the earth here that we know will be destroyed, but also the first heaven will be wiped away yeah um, and there was no longer any sea okay, I've got that right here.

Speaker 2 33:33

It says the sea was no more does not mean there was no bodies of water in the new earth, but refers to the source of earthly rebellion, chaos and danger the sea from which the beast emerged. Which is from Daniel 7.3. This symbolic or literal source of rebellion will no longer threaten creation's perfection. So, almost symbolic, once again literal source of rebellion will no longer threaten creation's perfection, so almost, is, you know, such a relief yeah, yeah like, because you know like saying you're not going to have any more big beasts to battle.

Speaker 3 34:07

You know, yeah yeah, and being a christian, you know how hard it can be. You know the enemy attacks you even harder. And just having to fight that every day, to fight those battles, that in itself can be exhausting yeah. So, just knowing that, that that's gone, knowing that the job is done.

Speaker 2 34:25

Yes.

Speaker 3 34:26

You know that the fight is over. There's victory.

Speaker 2 34:29

Clear off your hands, yeah.

Speaker 3 34:31

And you don't ever have to worry about going back into that ever again.

Speaker 3 34:45

Yeah, you're off your hands and yeah, and you don't ever have to worry about going back into that ever. Yeah, yeah, that is. I don't think a lot of people think of it that way, right, yeah. So then it says I saw the holy city, the new jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from god, prepared as a bride beautifully dressed for her husband, and I heard a loud voice from the throne saying now the dwelling of God is with men and he will live with them. They will be his people and God himself will be with them and be their God. He will wipe every tear from their eyes. There will be no more death or mourning, or crying or pain, for the old order of things has passed away. So it's saying right there that you know, on this earth, as Christians, you know we pray to God, we look up to God. He's there, but we can't see him. So it's as personal as we can get if we have relationship with him in prayer, but now he'll actually personally be there.

Speaker 2 35:36

It says this also it's this must be going reading. It doesn't even say it's coming from revelation, but it clearly is, because it was talking about the dwelling and now it was. You know, by wiping away every tear and eliminating death, mourning and pain, God will reverse the curse that entered the world through human sin.

Speaker 3 35:57

So Yep, so he obliterates all that.

Speaker 2 36:02

And once again, beth, this is the New Testament Going back to the Old Testament, because it was Isaiah 25, 8. Isaiah 65, 19 through 20 as well, and the paragraph before Leviticus and Ezekiel. And I mean I'm going to have to find that picture and send it to you Because I want to get one myself, like put it somewhere, just looks like a bunch of arches and rainbows, like intertwining. That would be really neat.

Speaker 3 36:32

Yeah.

Speaker 2 36:33

I think I've seen it on Amazon. I'm going to have to find it. John 14 to four says and my father's house are many rooms. If it were not, so what? I have told you that I go to go there to prepare a place for you. And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again and will take you to myself that where I am, you may be also, and you know the way to where I am going. So that's like his promise to us, you know.

Speaker 3 37:10

So is that saying, okay, let's. So let's just say I've got the little cabin by the river and I've got what he has prepared. So it's almost like, hey, he's providing a place for you. Okay, maybe it will be whatever it is you've earned, but it'll also be so it won't be like traveling you know we're not gonna be like, well, we're gonna go, like you, go to see grandma christmas time you don't have to put on your boots to go travel, like if you're thinking about going to see God or if he's coming to you, it's, it's instantaneous.

Speaker 2 38:00

Right, right, you know.

Speaker 3 38:01

Yeah, yeah, there's not any great travel, weary travel to be done. That you know. He'll always be right there.

Speaker 2 38:08

Yeah, Almost like he's right, right there with us now you know.

Speaker 3 38:15

Yeah, I don't know, Maybe I'm going on a limb on that. No, no, I don't think so. So, and it of course, it does explain this new heaven and how it's going to look. It says it's shown with the glory of God and its brilliance was like that of a very precious jewel, like a Jasper, clear as crystal. It had a great high wall with 12 gates, with 12 angels at the gates. On the gates were written the names of the 12 tribes of Israel. There were three gates on the east, three on the north, three on the south and three on the west. The wall of the city had 12 foundations and on them were the names of the 12 apostles, of the lambs. The wall was made of jasper and the city of pure gold, as pure as glass. The foundation of the city walls were decorated with every kind of precious stone. So I think, reading that maybe that's where people get their envision of their mansion on the hill you know that yeah that you know heaven is going to be.

Speaker 2 39:22

Everybody who's in heaven is just going to be in this majesty of yeah you know of what, of what they're describing here well, and this says right here, like the translations too, you know, like, like this is saying room, it doesn't necessarily mean a small space, it just was the, the closest word that they could think. Yeah, you know what I mean.

Speaker 4 39:43

That would translate so yeah, and in there it says there are many rooms yes, yes so many, many categories maybe rather than

Speaker 2 39:52

rooms, or yeah, just something to think about. I think that's. I think that's important to remember when we're reading the bible in general that, yeah, you know there's. There's certain, was it? Michael was telling us sunday? I think there's certain words in the or maybe was he telling us Sunday morning there's certain words in the Amish language that there's just no word for it in the English language, and so it's. You know, imagine that with how many different languages you know what I'm saying, or how many different translations. So Okay.

Speaker 3 40:29

Yeah it says every part of the foundation, all 12 parts of the foundation is made up of different type of stone or gem. So there's 12 walls decorated with every kind of precious stone. Each one is a different stone.

Speaker 1 40:47

Would that be the 12 tribes?

Speaker 3 40:49

Maybe that's what it represents.

Speaker 1 40:51

Yeah.

Speaker 3 40:53

I don't know if it's that yeah doesn't it say that?

Speaker 4 40:56

I mean, you read that.

Speaker 3 40:58

Because then it says the 12 gates were 12 pearls, each gate made of a single pearl. The great street of the city was a pure gold, like transparent glass.

Speaker 4 41:09

Imagine that one pearl.

Speaker 3 41:11

Yeah, like how is that possible that?

Speaker 4 41:12

gate is one pearl. Yeah, like how is that possible?

Speaker 3 41:18

That gate is one pearl yeah, yeah, oh, and then it says I did not see a temple in the city, because the Lord, god Almighty and the Lamb are its temple. So we will no longer be going to church, I assume, because God is Right, he will be omnipresent enough. Yes, that just his presence alone is like we can be under that. Yeah, you know.

Speaker 1 41:46

Mm-hmm, mm-hmm.

Speaker 3 41:48

Which, yeah, that's a vision in itself. Yeah, that's a vision in itself.

Speaker 2 41:53

Yeah, because I feel like even some people look at heaven and picture churches everywhere. Or you know what I'm saying, like churches on every corner of the street, or I don't know.

Speaker 1 42:04

I think that's where my vision comes from. The light that's him, that's the light.

Speaker 4 42:15

Well, yeah, because right here.

No More Tears, Pain, or Sorrow

Speaker 3 42:15

The city had no need for sun or the moon to shine, for it was the glory of God and the Lamb Yep. So it says, the glory and honor of the nations will be brought into it. Nothing impure will ever enter it, nor will anyone who does what is shameful or deceitful, but only those whose names are written in the Lamb's book of life. So that's probably a key statement right there. It doesn't matter how many good works you've done or well, let's face it even how many bad things you've done. If you've repented and you believe in Jesus Christ as your Lord and Savior, then you're going to be written in that book of life, but for those who are not, there's nothing further. He's not looking at anything else. I think I read that when I was going through this today, that you know, it's just one of those main things.

Speaker 3 43:10

It's like yeah, there's so many you would think there are so many things that could keep you out of heaven, and people think about that every day. Every day, you can think am I really going to heaven, Am I really going to make it, cause I've done this, I've done that. You can't forgive yourself or whatever it is. You know all the things you've done in your past and you'll hang. You'll get hung up on those things, like is it really even possible that I could you know? Um?

Speaker 1 43:41

be worthy enough yeah, yeah yep, but we hang on to. God has already forgiven us yeah, right yeah, but it all hinges on that.

Speaker 3 43:51

You know where does your heart lie. Does it lie with Jesus Christ, or are you hoping, if well, if I cover it up with enough good deeds but never really repent.

Speaker 3 44:03

If I, you know, just try to, you know, half-heartedly, make up for things at the very end, just to try to save myself, then that's not going to be enough. It's that have you truly accepted Jesus Christ as your Lord and Savior? That's what's going to get you in the book of life, Nothing else. And that can all your good deeds can't get you written in that book of life. You can stack them up eight miles high and it won't get you. But you could stack all of your faults up eight miles high. But if you've truly, in your heart, given your life to Jesus Christ and that's all you need, so that in itself, you would think, for a lot of people it would be a very refreshing thought.

Speaker 3 44:46

Oh, for sure, yeah, is that you know if I'm truly going to give my life to the Lord, if I'm truly going to admit that he is. But there is a lot of people that well, like I said, you want the best of both worlds, and you know they say, well, I'll get to it someday, you know, and maybe you've done it in the past gave it up, you haven't come back to the Lord, and that's always a difficult one for me too is okay. So you have somebody who, let's just say, you've had somebody that gave their life to the Lord at one point, and let's just say, for 20 years they were on the up and up, and you know, and then all of a sudden they decide to walk away from it, for whatever reason yeah, Even if they thought it was a good reason at the time, if they felt they had been hurt by the church or just, you know, gotten to the point where, see, this is why.

Speaker 3 45:43

Right, Because you know, because you know all the Christians I know are just terrible people and you know they. You know they've always treated me unkind and you know you can have all these reasons why and then, but that person never comes back to the Lord, never comes back to the church. Does the relationship you had with him for 20 years make up for that? Are you still gonna be written in the book of life? Or, if you've chosen, if you've taken the exit?

Speaker 2 46:13

Right, you've walked away. I feel like you took the exit and you chose that and that's free will once again.

Speaker 3 46:20

Especially. I think if you've spoken into existence, maybe it's one thing in your heart you're like you're feeling hurt, so in your mind you're just you. You maybe you never actually said I'm giving it up and I no longer believe in this because of x and y, but just because you were so hurt that you kind of like stop trying, yeah, almost instinctively. Quit trying, you know, and you never, you never go back you know you never pick up where you left off.

Speaker 3 46:52

You know just those. You know 20 years good enough to get you in the book of life, or is it well? You know, it's a tough one yeah, it is because I've seen people do that yeah and then I and I and the other one is. I've just seen so many times where I'm sorry, but you know the person has never had a relationship with jesus christ and at the very end they're having somebody pray over them and and you, I mean I'm saying you know, you know, trying to get them to accept the lord at the time of their death is that right, well, we do know that's enough, because the thief on the cross okay

Speaker 4 47:32

so we do know that that is enough, even though they didn't live for christ at all.

Speaker 2 47:37

But a lot of their walk here on earth, and it's it stinks, because people look at it as oh well, if I'm just gonna live my, I'm just gonna live my life, and then, yes, you know I'll do it right at the very end.

Speaker 4 47:48

But I don't think the thief did it out of fear no no, no, because he believed, he believed, yeah, he believes yeah yes, yeah, no, that person, somebody praying over them on their deathbed.

Speaker 3 48:01

If they can't accept him then? Yeah, right, or if you're doing it out of fear, like oh right, yes, I didn't expect to get this illness. Yeah, I didn't expect to be where I am right.

Speaker 2 48:12

You panic like right, okay, I gotta, if there actually is a I gotta say this prayer and the difference is is whether their head saved or heart saved right if you actually mean it or not.

Speaker 3 48:22

Yeah so I guess the point is I don't to, I'm not judging people like that or judging that experience. Yeah, I'm sure it's a good thing, but I just want to make the point that don't wait that long. Yeah, right, yeah, you know there's no, there's no sensible reason for ever waiting that long to find out.

Speaker 2 48:43

Tomorrow is never promised.

Speaker 4 48:45

No, no, absolutely not.

Speaker 3 48:47

No. So if you even have an inkling that you want a relationship with Jesus, you shouldn't put that's the one thing you should not put at the bottom of your bucket list. Yeah, don't procrastinate on that, don't keep pushing that one off, bring it to the top of the list, because when you were talking about.

Speaker 1 49:06

You know the person that was with christ and then all of a sudden turned the other way. It made me think of this verse john 10 28. And I give them internal life, and they shall never perish. Neither shall anyone snatch them out of my hand. My thought on that was nobody can snatch you out of his hands, but you can jump Exactly.

Speaker 2 49:30

Say that again.

Speaker 1 49:32

Read the verse.

Speaker 3 49:33

Yeah.

Speaker 1 49:33

It said, and I give them eternal life. They shall never perish. Neither shall anyone snatch them out of my hand.

Speaker 2 49:43

Yeah, they can choose to walk the other way because he's a gentleman and he's not going to force himself on you.

Speaker 1 49:49

So you know nobody has that power to take Christ from you, but you can take yourself from Christ.

Speaker 3 49:55

You're the only one that can do that.

Speaker 2 49:57

Almost like that kid that fell off of the cruise ship. Yes, you know, dad jumped in right away. Like would he do that for you if you did? I'm saying if this kid meant to do it on purpose or was like screw this, I want to go live in the ocean, you know what I mean, right, but like would god be, like hey, I bet I'm gonna save you, but I don't know, because we have free will at the end of the day, you know yeah, and I do.

Speaker 3 50:21

I guess I'm the type of person that I do think god kind of covers children oh, yeah, yeah, and and their in their immaturity and their yeah, yes, and I wasn't.

Speaker 2 50:31

I was just meaning that as a an example like if he's like, I'm gonna go live with spongebob squarepants yeah

Speaker 3 50:37

so I think you know if a kid, in their immaturity and stupidity, would do something like that, thinking that and you know that child never had an opportunity to give himself to the Lord.

Speaker 4 50:46

I think God covers them, especially if God covers children, and I mean we've talked before about the age of accountability.

Speaker 3 50:52

Yeah.

Speaker 4 50:53

What do we think? That is, whether it be 13, 12, 14, whatever. Yeah, until that age. Yes, yes, I agree. Yeah, age yes.

Speaker 3 51:00

Yes, I agree, yeah, and the other hard question I have is you know, we're all saved, we all believe that we're saved. I think we can say that for everybody at this table, but we all have things. We struggle with Sure, and we know that. Yes, no matter what it is.

Speaker 4 51:20

My venting.

Speaker 3 51:22

You know, and you think, okay, well, that's a small thing, but maybe to you it's a big thing. Right, you know it's one thing that's holding you back from maybe going to that next level. But God knows what our sins are, he knows what our struggles are and even though we're Christians, we've given ourselves to the Lord, we still struggle with sin every day. So if there's certain you know cause I look at you know people that, okay, do we look at smoking as a sin? Right, right Now? It hurts your body, it injures your body. You know that it does Right, and I'm sure that you know the Lord would tell you the same thing. This is the body that I've created for you and you're contaminating it right, yeah, you know, yeah, this is our temple, that's our temple um, but okay, but you never give up smoking because, for whatever reason, you you just, you just

Speaker 1 52:12

can't you just can't give it up or you just, you just, never that addiction is too.

Speaker 4 52:15

Yeah, that addiction you know uh then what does?

Speaker 3 52:21

that you know. Does that cancel you out?

Speaker 2 52:23

because you say you've given your life to the lord and you've repented of your sins, but you got this one thing that you never quite conquered yeah, I, I had a someone who, uh, grew up with me like we were neighbors at first and then our parents became best friends and then, I mean, he was like five or six years older than me and and then he had a sister, but she was younger, but we would, you know, I would be close with her but then always go and see football games and but he was a partier, you know, and he and he ended up, I don't know, the last maybe two years of his life. He started changing his life around and he kind of became more of a dad role, like a stepdad, but you know, he was going to church and everything and was trying, and I know, and it wasn't like he was an alcoholic. I just think he's, you know, he had probably 14 years of partying under his belt, you know what I'm saying. Like he started young, I think he's, you know, he had probably 14 years of partying under his belt, you know what I'm saying.

Speaker 2 53:25

Like he started young, I think he was nine or ten, you know what, because mom was never home and but he, you know, motorcycle accident, boom and he's gone, you know, and like so many people say, there's not a like I am not worried about, like I think he is up there with him right, and because he was, you know he was trying and even I will I'll still see screenshots of people having conversations with him about a month before he ended up passing and was had so much ambition of these younger kids that he wanted to speak life into and you know like talk to. You know, talk to them about Jesus and God and it's like, yeah, I feel like at that point like man, you know he was trying, like he still had and I don't need I don't know, maybe the last two years he wasn't, but I know that some people had that thought and no matter what our opinion is of somebody, only God knows, only Christ knows the heart of that person.

Speaker 4 54:19

Yes, so yeah.

Speaker 3 54:21

Well, you know, because you get some of these yeah.

Speaker 1 54:23

He knows that there's things that we just struggle with every day.

Speaker 3 54:27

Yeah, yeah, you know, but there's just some of these verses in Revelation and elsewhere that you know. You have some that are like, yeah, you know Jesus is going to cover all our sins. That's a whole point. Right, right you know to his grace. You know as a cover. You know his sacrifices covered our sins. But then you'll read, you know some of Revelation, like there's going to be a definite separation between those who have done wrong and those who have done right, and those who have lived holy and those that haven't.

Speaker 2 54:54

I think the whole Bible does that.

Speaker 3 54:56

Yeah, you know it's kind of a when you when you start reading deep into Revelation. It can kind of scare you when you start reading deep into Revelation.

Speaker 4 55:03

It can kind of scare you.

Speaker 3 55:04

It's not a pleasant book.

Speaker 4 55:05

Yeah.

Speaker 3 55:06

Like maybe even like because you get through, like Matthew, mark, luke and John, you're like oh, I'm feeling pretty good.

Speaker 1 55:15

Yeah, read a little deeper, as long as I yeah, abcs yeah.

Speaker 3 55:20

Yes, the ABCs. You feel pretty good and you feel a lot of hope and love and all that. Then you get to Revelation and then it's scary, because then it's always like, okay, the war is on, there's absolutely a separation and decisions are going to be made based on this, this and this, and it doesn't talk so much about, you know, being covered by the blood as it does.

Speaker 1 55:42

Yeah, we're making, we're drawing the line in the sand now.

Speaker 3 55:46

Depending on who's who, and I think it says there's only like 148,000 of the what do you call them Lost. I lost it.

Speaker 2 55:56

Jehovah Witnesses. No, no, no yeah 144.

Speaker 4 55:59

Yeah, what is it they're believing? 144,000. Great multitudes, oh, 144. Yeah, what is it?

Speaker 3 56:03

they're believing 144,000. Great multitudes.

Speaker 4 56:05

Oh yes.

Speaker 3 56:07

So you think, wow, that's a small number, you know, yeah.

Speaker 1 56:11

So it's just Is that like before rapture, pre-rapture, after rapture, I mean you never really know. Yeah, it's hard to tell there.

Speaker 3 56:18

Yeah, you know, I'm no expert on Revelation. I'm just saying that you start reading into it and it's like oh wow, maybe this shouldn't have been the last chapter.

Speaker 2 56:30

I was thinking that about a minute ago. I'm like, yeah, you close it and you're like crap, Now what?

Speaker 3 56:35

Yeah, you're just like oh boy so many questions.

Speaker 4 56:38

You know, but Well, we could always end with chapter 22, the first portion of the river of life. And he showed me the pure river of water of life, clear as crystal, proceeding from the throne of God and of the Lamb. In the middle of the street, and on either side of the river was a tree of life which bore twelve fruits, each tree yielding its fruit every month. The leaves of the tree were the healing of the nations, and there shall be no more curse, but the throne of God and the lamb shall be in it and his servants shall serve him. They shall see his face and his name shall be on their foreheads. There shall be no night there. There is no need for lamp nor light of the sun, for the Lord, god gives them light and they shall reign forever and ever. Let's just end right there, okay? Who's praying?

Speaker 3 57:33

We're going to end on a good note.

Speaker 4 57:37

Yeah, we'll really have to dive into Revelations sometime, but yeah it's heavy, that's for sure, it's uh I know, I just went in because my mom says you know in her visions that she came back on a black horse yeah, I've always so

Speaker 3 58:02

I just I just went in to see where we at we got uh oh yeah, we got it that was good. We have it 57 minutes yeah just a little light conversation there, yeah, but uh, yeah, it'd be interesting, you know, just to talk to people and see what their version is going to be, right, I mean, imagine just, getting there and seeing those walls a single pearl, and then with all of those jewels, what beauty I mean, you know, to us, the beauty that I see.

Speaker 4 58:36

You know I don't adorn myself, but I mean I wear plenty of jewelry come Sunday, but I mean I wear plenty of jewelry come Sunday. But for me, the beauty here on Earth, some of the magnificent trees, the sky, the ocean, the mountains, the white snow, those types of things, the flowers To me all of that is the beauty that we have here on Earth, and I'm certain that we'll have some of that as well, not just the jewels and the streets of gold Right right, yeah.

Speaker 3 59:07

Yeah, you know, when my mom had cancer for 15 years and I truly believe that one of the main reasons that she because they told her in the beginning she had like eight months to live, something like that. It was very short and she ended up living 15 years with it.

Speaker 3 59:21

And I think a big part of that was she was not ready to quit living yet. There were still things that she wanted to see. She wanted to see her grandkids, she still had things to live for, and I think that and she had a strong faith in Christ, and so I think that alone drove her to be able to survive where maybe others could not.

Speaker 2 59:37

Yeah, sure.

Speaker 3 59:38

You know, and then when my dad had his heart attack and he had the car accident, you know, when they called me they said he was gone. So I get to the hospital thinking, okay, he's already passed and when I get there, they had revived him, which was, just you know, incredible in itself yeah and I just remember that he had these huge tears rolling down his eyes.

Speaker 3 59:59

You know, he had his eyes open and just just tears rolling down his eyes and I'm pretty sure he knew I was there. But it's just one of those things where I often wonder like that happened. But as sometimes I just think, okay, he's going to heaven, but he's thinking like yeah.

Speaker 3 1:00:17

I really I'd rather be with my wife, I'd rather be with my mom and dad, who I have it Cause that was the thing at that time he had not seen his dad in 35 years. Oh well, you know something like that, yeah, Since like 1978, 79.

Speaker 4 1:00:35

Yeah, you know.

Speaker 3 1:00:36

So imagine that, like you've went that long without seeing a loved one, yeah, and I'm thinking like you know, okay, he'd rather, he'd rather go and see all his loved ones but he wasn't quite ready to go because he didn't get to say goodbye right and it was almost like yeah, did he get?

Speaker 4 1:00:53

did he get a glimpse?

Speaker 3 1:00:53

did he get a glimpse and say you know what I gotta? I can't go this way right, you know I have got, I got to at least go down and you know, um, give him some last moments yeah.

Speaker 3 1:01:07

And uh and so yeah, so he went to Altman and they they put him under a coma and all. During that time I'm going into the chapel, um, which is the first time I've ever done that, you know, like been in a hospital somewhere and actually sought out the chapel. I've ever done that, you know, like been in a hospital somewhere and actually sought out the chapel.

Speaker 3 1:01:25

And so I went in there and instead of, like you know, begging to bring him back. It was just like the first time where I'm like you know what. Whatever is your will, that's what I want you to do. He's ready to go, I'm okay with it. I just want to let you know I'm okay with that. I'm prepared for whatever your will is going to be, and I just think that in itself is. Could that be part of why you know he has to come back?

Speaker 4 1:01:52

because it allows me that opportunity to go to the Lord and show my trust in him. Oh yeah, for sure.

Speaker 3 1:01:54

And it's at that point where you know my dad can be like, okay, done my business, now we can go. And because otherwise, like I said, it was like there was no. Because when, as soon as they started to bring him out of the coma, you could even physically start to see that he wasn't going to make it Like his eye was, you know, from the car crash or from the heart attack. You could just see his eye started changing, it started to bruise, all this kind of stuff. So physically you could see him changing as he came out of it. So you knew, like that whole thing there was no other reason for that to go on, like for those, for those couple of days. You know he probably, you know logically, he should have just passed, yeah, over Trinity.

Speaker 2 1:02:37

Right, right, but he didn't.

Speaker 3 1:02:39

It was like there was just a little bit more unfinished business, and I'm just I. He didn't. It was like there was just a little bit more unfinished business, and I'm just, I'm always just thankful for that alone For sure, that I had that opportunity to go to the Lord and say, you know, yeah.

Speaker 4 1:02:51

I want him to stay, that's what I want.

Speaker 3 1:02:52

Yeah, yes, you know. If I get what I want, he's leaving with me. We're going home Right. Right, but that's not what you want, or if it's not what my dad wants, if he'd rather go with you then I trust it. That's what I want, and that's not easy to do.

Speaker 4 1:03:06

No, that's a hard reality.

Speaker 3 1:03:08

But I think you know, for a lot of people it's like that's where you got to get. You know it doesn't matter. You know if you're not perfect, you got problems, but you're trusting him. It's got to get to that level to where something so dear to you as your own father, who is like a friend to you is, is passing. It's like oh yeah you gotta be willing to say yep, yeah, I'm, I'm willing to give this up if, if that's your will.

Speaker 4 1:03:34

Yeah, like I'm okay, right, yeah.

Speaker 3 1:03:43

Because he was yours before he was mine. Yeah, so that to me, I always thought that was a big part of my growth. Yeah, was just that I was able to do that because, you know, I'd been through other things. Like you know, I went through a divorce and I didn't want it.

Speaker 4 1:03:51

Yeah.

Speaker 3 1:03:52

And I had a really hard time with that, which led to some of the problems that I had falling back and I just think, like that's now. I think that was stupid, that was silly, like, but that's who I was then, before that. And I think if that would have happened to my dad, then I may not have behaved that way. It may have been a whole different. I may have piled it on like, oh, now you're piling this on me too.

Speaker 2 1:04:17

Right for sure.

Speaker 3 1:04:19

So I think it happened, and I like to think that it happened in the right moment.

Speaker 2 1:04:23

You could have been, how so many other people are. Oh, why me God, why me, yeah, just you know.

Speaker 3 1:04:29

Continue to stay bitter and think well.

Speaker 4 1:04:31

That's one more thing that you know one more reason why I should believe, because I just keep getting say we can stay bitter or we can get better. Yeah, yeah. So thank God, we grow and mature. Yeah, yeah you know.

Speaker 3 1:04:42

So I'd still rather having back right now. But yeah, uh, but yeah, but I feel like that's you know, a big part of spiritual growth is being able to trust you know something you know, that's uh like we talk about heaven and all the things we want when we get there, but being on this earth and being able to say, yeah, I'm willing to give something up if it's your will you know, know, and something that important to you. So that's just my final thoughts on that.

Speaker 4 1:05:10

Yeah.

Speaker 3 1:05:10

How I view that.

Speaker 2 1:05:13

Yeah, anything else, yeah, that's a good way to end it, because I think a lot of I think a lot of christians could probably understand that, but I feel like a lot of people that aren't saved they're like, well, no, you know why wouldn't that? Why would a god do that? You know why? Yeah you know.

Faith as Strength, Not Weakness

Speaker 3 1:05:34

But I think when you become spiritually mature then you can put your own feelings aside, like you have been doing for years, you know, and committing to the lord in his, his way, and yeah, and I just think that a lot of people think that becoming a christian makes you weak, like it's hard to explain, but I think sometimes that's the way we're viewed like because you know uh yeah, because we couldn't do it on our own or something we couldn't do it on our own, or just because, yeah, we try to be, let's say, we try to be perfect, but it's hard to put in the words, I guess yeah, no, I get it but I guess for most men it doesn't.

Speaker 3 1:06:18

It's not masculine in our world today. I was going to that I think it was back in the 19th century being a religious man made you very masculine.

Speaker 2 1:06:27

Yes.

Speaker 3 1:06:27

Now, it doesn't make you masculine.

Speaker 2 1:06:29

Yeah, it's almost the opposite. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 3 1:06:33

That's the way it's viewed. You don't be like wow, yeah. He's a God fearing man and he's you know, no, now it's like it's almost unmasculine.

Speaker 2 1:06:42

Yeah, they're not looking at it as God-fearing, they're looking at it as oh, he's weak.

Speaker 3 1:06:46

He needed God Like he needed something higher than himself, or something you know, and people need to see it as no, it's from strength.

Speaker 2 1:06:56

Yes.

Speaker 3 1:07:00

It is masculine, it is God-fearing, it is God-fearing. It does come from strength it's, you know it is masculine, it is God-fearing. It is God-fearing it is. You know it does come from strength. It's not a weakness to be.

Speaker 2 1:07:07

No.

Speaker 3 1:07:08

You know, it makes us stronger people. It doesn't make us, you know, more dependent on something. And I just wish sometimes people would view it that way, especially younger people. You know they have a hard time understanding it. They, you know, a lot of times they just think, well, church is stupid. You know what use does that have for me? But at the same time, these young kids have all these anxieties Exactly.

Speaker 2 1:07:32

All these ridiculous things, yep.

Speaker 3 1:07:34

And if they just have that strength of the Lord in them just a little bit, you know they might not have as much anxiety. And if they do have that anxiety, they learn to carry it well as opposed to falling into things that just lead them down the wrong road.

Speaker 1 1:07:56

Imagine what this world would be if more fathers stood up and became the spiritual leader of the household.

Speaker 3 1:07:58

Yeah, it is a big problem. Wow, yeah, yeah, I would love to. I think it's because, like you said, it's not yeah, it is it problem. Wow, yeah, yeah, I would love to.

Speaker 1 1:08:03

I think it's because, like you said, it's not. Yeah, it is, it's just not, it's just not.

Speaker 3 1:08:08

You know, you tell any you know guy at work, which it's not all of them, but there's just so many guys at work.

Speaker 2 1:08:15

If you come up and say hey, I'm a Christian.

Speaker 3 1:08:16

they laugh at you. They think it's silly, they just do. They don't see the strength in it. They don't think it has anything to offer them.

Speaker 2 1:08:30

Well, it's because that's what the world is portraying, that's what the world wants to portray it as, and that's what it started to look like for the majority of the people. But it's not. It's the opposite.

Speaker 1 1:08:45

Yeah just like. Well, like I said, like satan has made the world think that way right right, and that's one more way, like it's that you know to get into our homes and yeah, yeah signs of the times. Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2 1:09:04

All right, so get us out of here before we get on another topic. Whose turn is it?

Speaker 3 1:09:08

Yours, oh great Okay.

Speaker 2 1:09:10

All righty, let's see here. Okay, okay, ready, all right, dear Heavenly Father, lord, I just thank you for this time that we have this evening. I thank you that we can come and speak what's on our minds with whatever topic that may be aligned for us. Lord, I just pray that this reaches whoever it may need to reach, whether it's, you know, in our little town or village or our friend groups, family groups, or miles away and countries away. I just pray that whatever needs to be heard is heard and they will take it. Take it and run and pray for travel. Mercies and in your name, amen, amen.