Growing Together

Halloween, Faith, And Finding The Line

• Organic Church • Season 3 • Episode 43

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A totaled car, every airbag deployed, and a calm voice over OnStar. That’s how our conversation opens—and the shock, gratitude, and timing of what followed become a surprising doorway into a bigger question: how do we hold joy, safety, and faith as Halloween rolls around?

We trace the tangled roots of the season—from Salem’s tragic trials and the unfair seizure of women’s property, to older European customs meant to ward off evil ahead of All Saints Day. Along the way, we talk about what makes someone “a witch” in today’s culture and why turning a historical injustice into a fashionable identity can miss the point. We also get honest about media: when a horror story redeems courage, and when it just glamorizes harm. If a show numbs our compassion, it deserves a hard pass.

Then we get practical. Is it possible to trick-or-treat without bowing to darkness? We think so—if you treat conscience as a compass, not a sledgehammer. Scripture doesn’t name Halloween, but it does call us to avoid idols, protect the vulnerable, and consider weaker consciences. We share ways to light up your block with warmth, pass out candy with meaning, pray over kids, skip the gory houses, and still make memories that last. And we admit our own blind spots—how phones, football, and binge-watching can quietly become idols that steal our best attention from God.

If you’ve wrestled with Christians and Halloween, this conversation offers history, nuance, and hope. You’ll leave with a simple framework: examine intent, honor conscience, choose what builds love, and let Scripture guide without becoming a weapon. If it draws you closer to God and your neighbor, you’re on the right path.

SPEAKER_01:

That's good.

SPEAKER_02:

Do you know what the topic is?

SPEAKER_01:

A Halloween.

SPEAKER_02:

Good job. We changed it up on him. You're sharp as attacked today, bro. Sharp has attacked. So we know he's had his phone because that was how we changed the topic. So that means you haven't lost your phone recently.

SPEAKER_01:

And I know where it's at and I keep it charged. Unlike my wife.

SPEAKER_02:

Well, I was gonna say you have to now that you don't have the landline.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah. Oh, you got rid of the landline. Yeah. Well, it's too expensive. Oh, it is. My goodness. I mean, you know, plus, then we changed our phone. Uh our carrier was a phone, and it's actually half as much as it was for most of our lines before.

SPEAKER_00:

Well, now it's always a package, right? Like you gotta have the landline and maybe the internet, and you know, you just I don't can even just have a landline. Yeah, you can just have a landline.

SPEAKER_01:

Okay. But we you know, we had internet also. With the landline. But I mean they they even charge you for writing the sending the statement.

SPEAKER_03:

Oh yeah.

SPEAKER_01:

For writing the statement. I thought, well, what in the world? Yeah. You know.

SPEAKER_02:

Because they want you to go digital. I still don't go digital. I'm like, nope. I'm old school, sorry.

SPEAKER_00:

Well, I think before we get started, Beth needs to tell her story of why we weren't here last week.

SPEAKER_05:

Well I went deer hunting. In her car. In my car. And I really don't know whether I hit a doe or a buck. I can just tell you it was big. Big. Totaled my car.

SPEAKER_01:

It did number on your coat.

SPEAKER_05:

It did. Um, all the airbags went off, and I was a little rattled because I thought maybe I hit somebody because I thought my OnStar was gone because I thought I just had it for one year and somebody's yelling at me, are you all right? Are you all right? And I'm like trying to look out the windows and I can't see because the airbags were covering it. And I'm like, Yeah, where are you? I'm here, I'm in your radio. Finally, she's like, This is OnStar. And I'm I'm like, I'm glad nobody was happy.

SPEAKER_02:

Well, I would have thought the same thing though, because you canceled it. So, like, yeah, you wouldn't have thought that it would but here, I guess that year you got it for three years.

SPEAKER_04:

Hmm.

SPEAKER_05:

So it's good to know. I didn't know I still had it. So and she's like, Are you all right? I'm like, I'm trapped. And they're like, Why are you trapped? Are you hurt? You know, I'm like, no, all these airbags, my door won't open.

SPEAKER_02:

Ham me, ham, ham. That would be that'd be an interesting job to be like her, you know what I mean? Like when you say I'm trapped, you're like, Well, no, I guess because they they can't see where you're at or anything, you know.

SPEAKER_00:

But I'm sure there's never a dull moment. Oh no.

SPEAKER_02:

Uh-uh.

SPEAKER_05:

But I mean, like, I mean, you this huge explosion, then the smoke fills your car, and then you got somebody yelling. I'm thinking, oh, maybe it wasn't a deer I hit. You know, and well, I didn't really hit it. Hit the front fender of my car on the driver's side, flipped over onto the hood, and then went down in front of me. Oh my god. But like the airbags, side airbags went off, seat airbags went off that I didn't even know I had seat airbags. The only airbag that did not go off was um the one in the steering wheel.

SPEAKER_02:

I hear that a lot.

SPEAKER_01:

Well, that's a good thing though. Is it? Yeah. Yeah. Because they they they say, I don't know, that you know, if you get hit with that one, you know, you're it just basically blows up in your face. And people get a lot of shratnel and stuff in there.

SPEAKER_05:

Yeah. So I think because I got hit from the side is why they all went off. But the one that comes out of the steering wheel, it deflates, you know. The ones on the side don't. I don't know if it's because they it protects you if you would roll or something. Probably. But the state patrolman had to cut me out, cut those all out so I could even see him. And then I had to crawl across the other side because my door wouldn't open. Oh no. But hey, he's like, Well, how far do you live? I said, about maybe a half a mile, because I was just across the bridge outside Janaton, right past where you turn to go on 416 to Tusky. Oh, yeah. And um he's like, I think I got some zip ties back there. He tied up my fender. I drove it home, called my sister, I said, Can you take me to Columbus? I'd said, I'm not missing this doctor's appointment. And she's like, Nope, but I'll bring you my car. So within a half hour, I was back on the road, shaking all the way to Columbus. But the Lord blessed me, he really did, because they gave me a very good amount for my car, which I did not expect. That's good. And the car I originally wanted that Jarve wouldn't spend the extra money at the time when I got my car, I was able to get, and it was only a thousand dollars over what they gave me on my car. That's good. Plus, it it is a year older. Yeah. It has less miles on it. Oh. And it is fully loaded. And it's one at any time. More things than bells and whistles that I know what to do with.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, should we say, Oh, where who where are you at? Who you who are you talking to? Yeah. And nothing's happened. Should we be talking to somebody now?

SPEAKER_05:

Yeah, it God kept me safe. And I gotta tell you, it was as I was just starting to speed up, and I thought, I need to slow down. The deer are gonna be running. And I no more thought that, and boom. What time were you? It was 5 30.

SPEAKER_02:

Oh 5 30 in the morning. Yeah. Because it doesn't even get light right now until like 7 30. Yeah, it was dark and dark, dark, yeah.

SPEAKER_05:

But I mean, he just had his hand on me, he kept me safe. I really think it was his voice that I was hearing telling me to slow down. Yeah. And and he just has hand through it all. I mean, all the way down to the offer that they gave me for my car. Yep. And we had just taken the money out of the bank and paid that car off in July. Oh yeah.

SPEAKER_02:

So I was really like, oh yeah. Yeah, a lot of the time, like that gap insurance, I think that's kind of the purpose of it, because typically they'll offer you a lot less than what your car would be worth. Or, you know, that's what they're saying it's worth. And it's like, but even with the gap insurance, they said it that fluctuates like and I'm like, well then how are I don't know.

SPEAKER_05:

It was like my car was only two years old. Oh. So I was really shocked that they it still was ten thousand dollars less than what we paid for it, but yeah. Well, you got to drive it for two years.

SPEAKER_02:

I did, yeah.

SPEAKER_05:

Put my when they and I won't probably ever buy a new car because I'm they say once you drive it off the lot, oh yeah, you've lost that. And that was proof of it right there. But I still did, you know, I mean, they still did give me more than I expected. That's nice. So I got new wheels. Didn't get hurt. Beth's got new wheels.

SPEAKER_01:

Now she can come really four slide, four-wheel sliding in the park.

SPEAKER_05:

Yeah, this one's got a bigger engine than my other one. So I'll really be flying in here.

SPEAKER_02:

It reminds me, I'm still parked caddy womp right now. Probably how Beth comes in most of the time.

SPEAKER_01:

Well, yeah, but she parks clear down at the end, so you're safe. Yeah, true. Plus she's already here, so yeah, that's true.

SPEAKER_02:

Now, the doctor you went to, was it the one Sarah seen? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That's exciting.

SPEAKER_05:

I was hoping that he would give me reinsurance that I didn't need something as invasive as you just told me your doctor's on the right page. But you need done. Oh, okay. Okay.

SPEAKER_01:

That stinks.

SPEAKER_05:

It does, because I don't I really don't want to be down for 12 weeks. That's a lot. He's like, well, two weeks you'll be walking with a walker, and then two weeks after that, you know, you can ditch the walker, and I'm like, okay.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah.

unknown:

Hmm.

SPEAKER_05:

So it oh well. So I go back and see my original surgeon on the sixth. So and if this is what he's gonna quit do, I'm gonna tell him you need to get it done in December because I've met my deductible. Oh yeah.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah, there you go. Yeah.

SPEAKER_05:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02:

Hope, man, hopefully they can get you scheduled. I know, that's why I'm worried. Well, if God's got a hand in it, I think hopefully happen.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah. It'll work out. Yeah.

SPEAKER_05:

I don't I I don't really want to have it done. Yeah. But like this doctor said, you need you're gonna have to have it done regardless down the road, whether you do it now or do it down the road. You might as well do it now while you're younger and healthier than waiting, you know, five, ten more years and and have that deductible met.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah, exactly.

SPEAKER_05:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, I'm sure recovery will be much easier if you're younger as opposed to what ten years.

SPEAKER_05:

Yeah, they're wanting to fuse um the bottom, I don't even know what numbers, but in the thoracic, they're wanting to fuse those, put rods on both sides, and then plates across it so it doesn't shift. Man. And then they will widen where the stenosis is at where it's um pinching the pinching everything and fix the herniated disc.

SPEAKER_00:

You're gonna be the six million dollar one. Oh, I am, I am. She won't be able to run for a little bit.

SPEAKER_01:

I won't be able to run for 12 weeks.

SPEAKER_05:

I'll be chasing with my walker down.

SPEAKER_02:

That's that sounds spooky. It is. Spooky.

SPEAKER_03:

Spooky as we roll around. I'm trying. I'm like, oh man.

SPEAKER_02:

We're gonna talk about Halloween.

SPEAKER_00:

All right. Well, Sidola, you you uh Okay. You brought this forward. So we can start. And I like I said, you uh presented a lot of good questions.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

Which some of them I don't even know if they were quite related to Halloween. Yeah, and they were still kind of fit into that.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah, and I will say they were it was so one of our congregants reached out to me, Jenny, um, and was like, Hey, have you guys ever thought about doing a podcast about Halloween? And I'm like, I just always thought we've already done one just because we've talked about it like in little snippets, you know. But then I went back and looked at all of our podcasts, I'm like, oh, I guess we haven't done one entirely on that, you know. And I'm like, yeah, I wouldn't be opposed to doing one. And um, she's like, I even have like questions that I've just like, you know, gathered over the years and I've always because she's a big Harry Potter fan and I think Halloween fan. Um, and and I know like when she first started coming to church, like I don't know if it was people here or if it was just people that she knew were like, oh, well, you can't be a Christian and you know, watch Harry Potter and all the things. So it's kind of been something on her mind a lot. Um and I know Michael kind of touched on it a couple times in different, you know, episodes, but then Nick went to Salem a few weeks ago, and then I had a friend who went to Salem just this past weekend. So I was kind of asking her what she thought about it because when I had talked with you last week about it, I'm like, oh, you know, like I wasn't expecting it to be very overcrowded, like you said, and very touristy. And um, but basically Macy was saying, like, yeah, um, she said, I loved it, but she said I'm getting a lot of pushback and feedback from Christians saying I shouldn't have gone because I'm a Christian, you know. And then I was like, oh man, this is probably the Holy Spirit like pushing me to bring this up to you guys, you know.

SPEAKER_05:

Um, so yeah, that's but I don't believe that they were truly rich witches.

SPEAKER_00:

Well, short history. I believe what was happening is if you were a woman in those times and you owned any land or had anything of any worth, well, guess what? If you could be accused of a crime of any kind, you would have to forfeit your property. And so then once you forfeit it, then of course who could who could come forward and purchase it? You know, the people at the top, people with big money, the landowners that already got it. So they would be able to sweep in, take these women's land, you know, buy it, whatever that process was. So there is uh a substantial claim that a lot of these women uh were being accused of witchcraft in order to get possession of their property or what they had. Um so there's some controversy about about that.

SPEAKER_05:

I think uh uh my daughter was talking about it the one day that uh the one of the women's husband died at a very young age. And usually then, like the brother-in-laws or the other men of the family would take over the farm if she was proven that she wasn't able to continue it. But she was able to. So therefore, the brother-in-law accused her of being in witchcraft. Yes, yes.

SPEAKER_00:

So he could have the form. So he could have the form. Because the deal was back then, if you married a woman, and this is how a lot of men would do this, is they men would try to marry up. They wanted to marry a woman who had inherited a lot of property, you know, um, a lot you know, a lot of estate. And so as soon as they marry that woman, it all transfers to the man. It all becomes his when you marry him.

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

And that was just standard practice back then. Um, so when you couple that with, yeah, if if there's a woman in the community, you know, that is able to provide for herself and and take care of land and stuff like that, well then she becomes a target because number one, it's that's the standard. Like we don't believe women should do that. They should not be in that position to be landowners, to to uh be in control of an estate. Um so how else we, you know, so how are we gonna get around this? Well, yeah, you accuse them of witchcraft or something else, and yeah, and then once they go to jail or you know, they're found guilty, then you're the next in line to get it. You could just you could just take you take whatever you want. You take everything they have. So they believe that that may have had a good deal to do with that. Yeah. And you know, and that area for Salem and Massachusetts, and you know, there's a lot of Puritans at the time, and you know, they were uh very, very strict on their religious beliefs, and for better or for worse, that could have sometimes that could have negative impact on the phone.

SPEAKER_05:

Yeah, and the women had actually no rights back in that time.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, yeah, right, yeah, women had no rights. Um which divorce was very uncommon back then, but if it did happen, it's quite opposite of today. Like most the men would get the children, like no questions asked. So it just, you know, that's how that's how hard it was for a woman to um, you know, to have property, to have any kind of standing whatsoever in society. So yeah. And I don't know a whole lot about it. Like I've never actually read a book about it or history about it. So, you know, I just know the basics of it. But yeah, that's kind of what I've I learned a little bit of that when I was there, and you know, and I had kind of heard that kind of thing before, and just knowing what I know of that time period kind of makes sense. Yeah. Because it just kind of it was a big thing and then it fizzled out. Mm-hmm. You know? Yeah. It's like they didn't keep accusing people people of witchcraft after the fact. It was like this big epidemic, so to speak, and then maybe once they got all these women's land and everything, then there's nothing more to steal. Yeah, there's nothing more to steal, so now we can quit accusing people of it.

unknown:

So you know.

SPEAKER_02:

Well, like when I brought it up to you guys, Beth was kind of saying, like, because we are all kind of putting our own two senses in on how we think of Halloween, and um, she was saying, you know, there's certain things she does or doesn't do, but she's like, But I can tell you that when I take my grandkids or when they go, like I am fully covering them in the blood, like praying over that. And that was one of Jenny's questions. Like, when we say that, like if we just say it, are we fully covered or like is there more to it? What what do you guys think?

SPEAKER_01:

Well, like if you say it, you're you're you're you know, if you're if you're asking God, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02:

Like if you're saying it and meaning it's like you are covered.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, you know, so I don't Well, you do have to ask yourself that question of okay, if this is my true belief, and and I'm doing something that I believe I need to cover my children in the blood, as we're doing this activity, then you do have to ask that question, okay, what are your beliefs? How does this activity or this um you know, how does this affect um my relationship with God? Yeah, my religion. Um because I don't know, because like I said, you all know that I decorate for Halloween. I have a huge display, which right now with all this wind and rain, I had to lay stuff down again tonight. I'm like, I'm done. Halloween's over. Because I had to rebuild it once after that big storm came through.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

And I'm like, I'm not doing this again. I'll just get ready for Christmas.

SPEAKER_01:

Maybe there's maybe there's a message there for you.

SPEAKER_03:

Maybe, I don't know. Could be, could be.

SPEAKER_00:

But uh I was like, I'll just get ready for Christmas. We're good. Um I I I think I think we had to question this with anything because I believe I'm to the point now, I I believe there's so many things we do as human beings, whether it looks good on paper or not, is a sin. I mean, like I think the fact that as a culture, as Americans, that most of us will spend our entire Sunday sitting in front of a TV watching football uh is is a sin. Yeah. It's against what the Lord wants out of us for that day.

SPEAKER_02:

Like the Sabbath is not for football. It is like, yes, you are using it like as a Sabbath towards football, not towards Jesus.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, you're not thinking about Jesus at all.

SPEAKER_02:

Like you're resting in football, not using it. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

Um and of course, you know, football has, you know, it's a multi-billion dollar business, not only the pros, but college as well. So, you know, now our whole culture is, you know, there's a game Monday night, I think Tuesday, Thursday, Friday, Saturday, Sunday. So it's just, you know, taking over our entire culture. Um and again, it looks good on paper, but we all know that when anything becomes this multi-billion dollar business, that there's a lot of stuff going on behind the scenes that is not right. Yeah, there's a lot of evil going on behind the scenes, there's a lot of greed there. Uh when you're passing that much money around, there's bound to be trouble somewhere. Yeah, yeah, for sure. You know, so and and you can talk about, you know, in doing that, we're also worshiping idols because we all look up to these players and want to be like these players and wish we could be a football player. And again, we honor them, we wear their jerseys. Like we live it. Yeah, if you're a fan, like a lot of Cleveland Browns fans, you live it. You know, so that's that's worshiping idols. So we're not supposed to do that.

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah. But we do it.

SPEAKER_00:

So we do it. Um so for me, it's a very broad subject that I think you could take you could take anything in your life and say, you know what, I probably shouldn't be doing that. But what are we all supposed to do? Are we all supposed to just sit in our ch chairs and and do nothing?

SPEAKER_03:

Right.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, but you know what they say, idle hands is the devil's workshop, too.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01:

So you have to be doing something.

SPEAKER_03:

So Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

As I said, you know, I decorate for Halloween, I've always celebrated it. Um, but for me personally, it it's it's something that I always enjoyed since I was a little kid, and my mom always made it special. And there was never any in fact, her one rule about trick-or-treating was you are not allowed to dress as the devil.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

You're not allowed to have a devil cock.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

So don't even think about picking it.

SPEAKER_02:

That's my thing. Like double.

SPEAKER_00:

So that was the only rule we had, but we did have it.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

Um But yeah, uh, she just made it such a special time in our lives. And for me, not having both my parents already at this age, you know, there's a lot of good memories that I have of spending time during that holiday and how special they made it for me. That that's that's what I celebrate, that's what I hold in my heart. Um, I don't give Satan any credit at all for that holiday. Yeah. Like I have never I've never acknowledged him at all within like it's his holiday. Yeah. To me, it's like Satan can only have what you give him.

SPEAKER_02:

That's what I was just thinking. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

You know, but in saying that, I if somebody thinks that celebrating that holiday is going to harm their relationship with God that is getting in the way of their growth spiritually, then I would say don't celebrate it.

SPEAKER_02:

Exactly. Yeah. You know, I um kind of like how we say, you know, work out your own salvation. Like it almost goes hand in hand with this topic again. You know what I mean? Because Yeah, you know, it maybe and I think it depends on like what was your what was your story like before you knew God, you know. Were you into paganism? Were you into because if that's the case and it's going to make you stumble, okay, maybe we shouldn't, you know?

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, and it's and in the case of the Salem witch trials, okay, that's an historical fact that these trials took place and they accused these women of being witches. Now you could study up on what a witch actually means. It's not always in in the in the historical record, it's not always about being so-called satanic. Um but the fact is they took they took an historical thing that happened. But and some people like myself, I can go to Salem and I can look at it as an historical event. And and I love history, so I can get interested in all different kinds of things. But the flip side of that is there's a and there's plenty, when you go there, you'll find out real quick. There's a lot of young women and a lot of people who have taken that story, and now they want to be witches. These women were accused of being witches, which I'm gonna doubt that they were, and most of them did not plead guilty of that fact, did not want to be accused of such a thing. Right, right. But now you have these young women who want to be witches. And then it's again, it's like, okay, then but what does that mean to you? Does that mean you worship whatever it is in the realm of witchcraft instead of worshiping God? Okay, you have a problem. I would say, okay, that that's where that's where things get skewed, is you have people that have taken that and and build up this image and this new culture of whatever a witch is supposed to be. And if you take that on as like, yep, I'm not who I am, I'm a witch.

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

And and then if that comes down to, well, that means I don't worship God because I'm a witch, because that's not what witches do, then you got a problem.

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

But I think you could do that with I think you could do that with anything.

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

I mean, so I mean, Halloween as you know, Halloween comes from a lot of different cultures. It has German, you know, um, origin, it has Irish origin. Um and actually one of the main origins of it was is they were doing it to keep evil spirits away, is why they were celebrating this because November 1st was All Saints Day.

SPEAKER_02:

Yes.

SPEAKER_00:

So they believed that all of the spirits would walk the earth. So by dressing in costume or or some of the other, or lighting a jack-lantern meant that we are protecting ourselves from these evil spirits because if we look like them, they'll pass us by, they'll leave us alone. So that was like one of the main um origins of the holiday. It didn't have anything to do with worshiping Satan. Right. But again, people have taken the holiday decided that, oh, this is going to be the devil's holiday. When in historical record it isn't. But it is, but for a certain group of people, they've been able to, you know, build it into that. Um, and I think we do that with a lot of things. We we do that with a lot of things that uh um have actually happened or the actually uh cultures of different people, and then we build it up into something that it really isn't. Yes. Um for me personally, yeah. Um like with my Halloween display, I don't do I don't believe in doing anything violent. Like you're not gonna find like gory and gore or uh severed limbs, no axe murders. No, yeah, nothing nothing, you know, that I guess could be based in some form of like brutal reality of that kind of thing. I don't and you know, I've Beth and I were messaging back and forth. And when I was young, I I loved the horror movies. You know, when I was little, I grew up watching the old black and whites with Baylor Legosi and Boris Karloff. I loved those as a kid. And yeah, and I started watching other horror movies as I got older. And I'll I I think one to really bring up would be like the Texas Chainsaw Massacre. I used to watch that every year, right? But now as I've gotten older and I've gotten more spiritual, I'm like, that's one that like I can't watch it anymore. I don't desire to watch it anymore because there's no there's no redeeming quality in it. Yeah. Like some horror movies, you've got the heroine who has to defeat this evil, and she'll be the only one left, and there's at least a point to it, and she'll be the last one standing, and you know, she saves the day or saves the kids or whatever the storyline is, but at least there's like a redeeming quality, like good always wins. But a film like that, it's like there's no like there's no redeeming quality. So to me, evil. Yeah. So to me, I'm like, I just don't feel like I should be watching that anymore. Like it's it's not doing my soul any good. It's just one of those films where if if I would watch now, I'd I'd feel uncomfortable. Like I don't desire to watch it.

SPEAKER_05:

I watched those growing up when I was younger, and I mean I don't have any desire to watch them now.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05:

One, I'm scared to death of the dark, so don't, you know, I'm not gonna watch something that's gonna be playing in my head. Yeah. But God is really like just even on regular TV, Jarvey will have something on, and I'm like, what are you trash? Are you watching? He's like, Well, what's the matter with it? It's just how they it's not necessarily the foul language, it's just subject matter. Exactly. And it just disgusts me. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

And I haven't watched it, but I've seen plenty of media on it. So Netflix has been doing that monster series. Oh. And they just did Ed Gean recently. Which, if you know the history of those murders and that story, it's horrible. Yes. Like, but Netflix has felt compelled to take the truth and somehow make it even worse than what actually happened. Yes. And which I think, even for Ed Geen himself, I'm like, that's just a tragedy. Like, it was a tragedy what that man's life had become for whatever reason and the things that he did. That was tragedy enough. But now they're taking his story and they're not even telling the truth.

SPEAKER_02:

They're making it even they're romanticizing it.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah. And it's like, what kind of people are we? Yeah. That we have to take this horrible story instead of just telling the truth, if that's what you want to do, and turning it into this it's even worse than you know than it was.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

Which you think, how is this how is that even possible? Well, they figured it out. They did it. And millions of people are watching it. Yeah, not to mention and you got for entertainment, you gotta be thinking, what is wrong with us?

SPEAKER_02:

Well, and I think I've seen people talk about um like looking at the actor in that series versus looking up the real pictures of Ed Geen, because and the actor is a little more attractive, you know, attractive and everything, but everyone everyone said, Oh, you know, you'll be in for a rude awakening when you look up the real pictures of Ed Geen, which I've seen pictures of him before anyway. So I'm like, Why is this power boy from Wisconsin? Yeah, like they were romanticizing the the figure because they picked a good looking guy for it. And I'm like, what is wrong with this? Exactly.

SPEAKER_00:

But there's things in that in that series that he never even did. That's what I'm saying. Like he did these horrible things, and they're like, you know what? The truth just isn't good enough.

SPEAKER_02:

Let's add more.

SPEAKER_00:

As horrible as it is, let's have him do things that he never even did, which again. This might sound kind of crazy, but you're taking a guy's life that was a tragedy for himself, and you guys have just made that even worse.

SPEAKER_03:

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_00:

Like, you know. And some people think, well, he deserves that for what he did. And I'm thinking, no, he didn't. I I don't care what anybody's done. Nobody deserves to like have your story then all of a sudden be twisted into this even, you know.

SPEAKER_05:

What is wrong with those writers that they can even come up with stuff that's worse than that's where my mind goes.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah, it's like you guys are all like And all the producers and editors that are fine with pushing it through, you know.

SPEAKER_00:

But they know it'll sell. I was just gonna say they're looking at the almighty dollar. Yeah, yep. And like I said, millions of us Christians will watch it because just out of curiosity.

SPEAKER_05:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

So what does that say about it?

SPEAKER_05:

And I do watch murder mystery shows, but not the guy. Not the murder. I'm watching like for those of their solving them. Yes. And that's what my husband will throw at me. He's like, what's a difference? There is a difference. She's just nasty. The things that come out of that woman's mouth is nasty. You know?

SPEAKER_00:

Yep. Yeah. Yeah. So it, you know, the it's an argument. And like I said, with Halloween, I I would because because I celebrate, I know I celebrate it. And and there's one other thing for me personally, because you know I do the Halloween display and I do the Christmas display. And I have seen and I feel like I have done, I'm doing something that the community really enjoys and appreciates. And it w it was a couple weeks ago, this car drove by, and there was this kid, young, young kid, and his grandpa, and they were in the backseat, and the kid was on the grandpa's laugh, and they both got their heads out the window. And they're just supposed smiling and have a good time. And I'm thinking that's that's love. And those two are going to carry that memory for the rest of their life. And that little kid is going to carry that memory for the rest of his life. And I believe a lot of good people and good Christians starts with that kind of love and those kind of memories. Yeah. Right. You know, I I I truly believe that. So when they're when they're going past looking at those Halloween lights, they're not, they're not worshiping the devil. They're not thinking about anything evil. They're they're they're off of their phones for a little bit, they're enjoying time as a family, and they're they're gonna they're building memories that they're gonna have because most likely those same people will come back every year.

SPEAKER_02:

Right, right.

SPEAKER_00:

Because they want to experience that same relationship that they have with each other and spending time together. And and that's why I do it. If I wouldn't do it otherwise.

SPEAKER_05:

Have you ever seen the display in Janeton? I I uh it's almost two blocks or a block long. I I will not walk when because I do go trick-or-treating with the kids. I I I struggle with it, I do, because I don't they don't really feel right doing it. Uh-huh. But I also want to be I want that part of the enjoyment to see them giggling and laughing and getting candy. But that block in Janaton, I won't. I'll go around the other way. Well, probably because it's gory. It is horrible. Yeah. They have like 10 feet, 12 feet devils. I mean, you know, with the horns and he's holding skulls with blood dripping off of it. It's it's it's just it's and then when I said about, you know, because there is people out there that are just having fun times with their family, and then there is your predators out there. Yeah, there's nasty, yeah. There's nasty people out there. Yeah, that's who I want my children protected.

SPEAKER_02:

Yes, yes. Yeah. Yeah, I agree.

SPEAKER_00:

Which we have to worry about in all things.

SPEAKER_05:

And everything. Not just not just on Halloween night. Yeah. Whether you're going to the mall and walking through the mall. Yeah. You know, I mean, there's just whether you're walking they're walking into the school anymore. You know, you just we just have to pray that hedge of protection around our children.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah. Yeah. All the time.

SPEAKER_05:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02:

So um you know, I was thinking kind of being more in we have to be in the world, but we don't have to be of the world. Exactly. But you know, whenever these things do occur, because let's be honest, how many what's the percentage of kids that go trigger treating from zero you know, age zero to ten or something? Probably eighty, ninety percent. There's probably most of them. So it's like whenever Joe Schmoe asks Cooper, hey, you want to go trigger treating, like, and you tell him no, you know, like what kind and I shouldn't say you're not being a good parent, but it's like if you're just saying no because oh well, there's so much evil, evil to, you know, dress up as a fire truck or something. You know what I mean? And like you can use that, you know, you can use that time to, you know, talk or like I I wasn't thinking, I think it was about a month ago, I saw these little Jesuses. They're like little figures. I'm like, oh, I'll pass those out with my candy this year. And then like, wait a minute, I'm I plan on taking Cooper a little bit this year. So I'm like, I'm not going to pass candy out, but I did get those mini Jesuses intending to pass those out. You know, it's like because everyone puts the little the candy balls in, or you know, sometimes they get caram apples. I'm like, I wanted to be different in one way, and I'm like, that would be a perfect way. So it's like you can be creative and use that, you know, as bringing more light to the I don't know, to the Halloween or the Yeah, I know what you're talking about.

SPEAKER_01:

Christian life.

SPEAKER_05:

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05:

Well that's my son just sent me a picture of he's been working a week and a half on Bennett's costume because he wants to be the Titanic. Oh god. Is he putting like lights in it too? Like, how is he got the smoke? I'm not he does, and he has to have and listen, you have to have the right amount of smokestacks because I ordered him a he is six.

SPEAKER_00:

And he's oh yeah.

SPEAKER_05:

Oh, obsessed with it. Really? And he will tell you everything about it, why it sank, how it sank, and the boat that came that it came too late to save the people, what its name was, how many smokestacks are on that boat. How many, how old is he seven? He'll be seven in March.

SPEAKER_02:

I think Tripp was also seven. Aunt Tanya, correct me if I'm wrong, but I think he was around seven or eight whenever he started this crazy obsession with the Titanic. And like they went to, I think when they were in Gatlinburg, they went to the um museum. And Chase and I went there when we went a few years later. And they now have one in Cincinnati, I think. Uh is it Kosei? Is that what that's called? The science museum.

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02:

I think there's one there too. It's like a replica, but there it's something with kids in Titanic. I mean, I always loved the movie growing up, like I think it's still my favorite movie. I've never watched it, I've never watched it either.

SPEAKER_00:

I've never seen it all the way through, huh?

SPEAKER_02:

It's so funny too, because you'll see those memes of, you know, the there's Rose on the door, and then there's Jack, and they're like, oh, well, there would have been enough room. But I can remember like asking my dad, like, why didn't she move? Or why, you know, what and he's like, Sid, it's just a movie. I'm like, yeah, but it's it's a true story. He's like, it's based on a true story. And I'm like, ah. When did that come out? 92 or three, I think.

SPEAKER_00:

Because I for some reason I think I was at high school.

SPEAKER_02:

Was it later? It was 96 or 7.

SPEAKER_05:

Let me see. It had to have been 97 or 98. Okay. Let's see.

SPEAKER_00:

Well, at that time, it's like I did not like Leonardo DiCaprio. Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_05:

You're gonna have to Google 99.

SPEAKER_00:

That was one of the main reasons I didn't watch it, which I think is great now, but at the time of like, you know, he was doing the Romeo and Juliet and Anakin and all that. I'm like, Yeah. So that's why I never watched it.

SPEAKER_05:

Um I th I was going through um my divorce at that time, and I was not in a very good mental health place. And I just was and I thought I can't watch anything else as sad. Yeah, I can't, I can't do it. And now, you know, when it comes up, it just takes me back to that spot, and I'm like, nope, not doing it.

SPEAKER_00:

I love watching them videos though when they go down and they you know it.

SPEAKER_05:

I had bought in these boats that the Titanic actually sinks and it breaks where it breaks in the middle. And he tells you the reason it breaks there and it sinks this way and that way is because of the pressure of the water and all this. I mean, he tells you it all. And he was, well, you know, this isn't right, it doesn't have the right amount of smoke stacks on it.

SPEAKER_03:

That's awesome.

SPEAKER_02:

Did you know there's a Lego set that they have now? No, you should get him for Christmas. I think it's expensive. Like, I don't know how expensive, but it is a lot of pieces.

SPEAKER_05:

So if he's in the Legos, well, he is, but it ends up usually in a battle because things don't he Yeah, it things have to be done perfectly in Ben's world. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02:

Well, to be fair, in the in the Legos, most of the time it has to be done perfectly, or else it's not gonna work.

unknown:

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02:

So he gets frustrated easy with it.

SPEAKER_05:

But yeah. But yeah, it just he's been working on this costume for a while. But it's got the block.

SPEAKER_00:

Make sure you take pictures of that because I want to see that.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah, well, he just sent me Well, that's the thing though, you know. I I can remember my sister posted probably two and a half three two and a half or three years ago in so Enoch's four. So whenever she when he was like six months, she made his costume, like knitted it and everything, and he was baby Yoda from Star Wars, and she posted, like, I hope I I hope you all you will always let me like make your Halloween costumes. You know, like it's something like it's you know, things that is traditions that you know she's going to remember doing that, and hopefully, I think she's made a couple more, but it's like you can definitely bring light to these types of situations.

SPEAKER_05:

I always make my kids, yeah. And Clayton was so funny because when we were in Florida and we were talking about how we were putting our heads together how he was gonna make this Titanic thing. He's like, Do you remember when you made that stuffed pizza crust one for Sarah and she won first place? I said, Oh my gosh, I forgot about that, you know. I said, Give me some glue gun and a felt, and we had it all figured out. Because I think that's the year that pizza had come out with that stuffed crust where the had the cheese. Oh yes.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah. Okay, so with everything being said, do we think witchcraft is real?

SPEAKER_00:

No.

SPEAKER_02:

You don't?

SPEAKER_00:

Evil's real.

SPEAKER_02:

Evil. Oh, I think witchcraft is a little bit.

SPEAKER_00:

I I'll agree with Roger. I do think evil is real. Uh-huh. Um, going back to Ed Geen, my because you think, how is that possible? I I think one way or another, evil did slip in to that many. Yeah. So I I believe that true evil does exist. Now, is do but do I believe witchcraft as a practice can actually do things? I don't know. I don't know.

SPEAKER_05:

I do. I I believe maybe in the minds of the people doing it.

SPEAKER_02:

Because they now have opened that door for evil to come in. Yes. And I I I I think that's why there's so much speculation about Christians being of how or, you know, just quote unquote celebrating it or being involved in it. I think that they're because you hear people talking about Ouija boards and just different things, and it's like, oh, you know, how could they make these stories up? I do think it's real, but I think it's like you said, I think it's evil spirits that are being brought in, you know. Um I don't know.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, I think it's and honestly, I think that's another thing that it's like it's well, well, you know, there always is a question, you know, is is you know, is an exorcism actually something that has actually happened right. Like that, you know, we've seen the movies or heard heard stories.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

You know, uh has has there actually been a you know legit case that exorcism was required? I don't know.

SPEAKER_02:

We don't know.

SPEAKER_00:

I don't know.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05:

Well we've seen it. We've seen Christ remove Tina. The um where he Yeah, he called out spirits. He called out the spirits where the pain I can't think of where the pin went into the swines. So yes, I believe that there's evil spirits that can possess a person. And do I think that I think when witchcraft and they start doing this and doing that and doing this, that they are just opening up that door. They're almost welcoming.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, and they're hardening it toward God because they're not practicing anything of God. They're they've actually decided that I'm going to practice this almost as a living. This is who I like I said, this is who I'm going to identify as. Yes. Yeah, I I do believe that that can have that effect. Yes.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah. Um okay, what about what does the Bible say about Halloween? Because like I don't know if it says anything about it. And it doesn't.

SPEAKER_00:

Um, but I would say I think it goes back to there's plenty in the Bible about not worshiping other idols, worshiping other gods.

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

So when you have people that celebrate Halloween and they are in the process of taking that holiday to worship Satan or to work or for witchcraft, whatever, it's like, okay, you've you've decided that you're going to worship other gods and other idols.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah, like it's not like the Ten Commandments that it's like, all right, black and white, here it is, you know. No Halloween.

SPEAKER_00:

You can't do the There's nothing in the Bible that Halloween is the devil's holiday. Yeah, yeah, like if he has a holiday. It's like, no.

SPEAKER_02:

Like I think if if everyone went into their index or glossary like and tried to look for Halloween, like I don't think it would be there.

SPEAKER_00:

No.

SPEAKER_02:

Evil spirits, you look there, yeah, that'll be there, but Halloween, no.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02:

It wasn't even it wasn't even a thing, you know. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

So Yeah.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah. And I think I think that's just I don't know. I mean, for people just to say, well, you can't you can't do Halloween or you know, and 'cause the Bible says, nah, the Bible didn't say anything about it.

SPEAKER_00:

It says Well, like I said, there's plenty of people that Christians that will be, like I said, they'll go home after church, they'll crack open a beer, and they'll sit down, maybe light a cigarette, whatever, watch football, do this, do that, and never think about God after church at all. What's it again? That's like, okay, you've decided to do something that is blocking your relationship with God. You you you've decided to put this in its place.

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

Right.

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

And we all and we're all guilty of it. You know, that's you know, so we're all guilty of doing that in one form or another. Um so the same person that would say you can't do Halloween, they might be that person that, you know, drinks a six-pack and, you know, uh watches football all day and never gives God another thought until next Sunday before before the big game. Yeah. So, you know, there's that argument that um if we're I'm gonna say if we're gonna pick on Halloween, I guess we've really got to start picking on ourselves about every day. Because like I said, I see a lot of things that we do on a daily basis as as sin, as we are not doing what God would have us do. Um, because we're filling our lives with all these other things. I mean, the amount of time we spend on our cell phones consuming all this other media that consumes I mean, you you know all your time. I actually like when I don't spend as much time on my phone because my phone will tell me how much less time I spent the week before on my phone. And sometimes it's gratifying to be like, oh, well, yeah, you know. Let's see how much more I saw my phone two hours last this week.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

But but that's the thing, is that you know, this culture and this generation, the next generation, we're spending our time on social media. So in a in a sense, that's it's not, you know, it doesn't say in the Bible, you know, don't be on your cell phone all day. But it does say, you know, don't worship other idols, don't displace me with other gods, don't displace me with with other, you know, activities or things of that nature. So that's that's the reality of it.

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

So if you if you're we're we're all doing that. Let's be honest. We're we're all guilty of that. Yeah. Um but you know, as I said, what are we supposed to do? Like, should we all just decide that we're gonna sit in a chair and we're gonna wait on the Lord and not do anything else?

SPEAKER_03:

Right.

SPEAKER_00:

Um so it's just tough. Yeah, we we live in this world. Yeah, and you can make the argument, like, yeah, a lot of these activities that we do, it makes us happy. It fills our time, we spend, we do it with family, we it fill, you know, it fill it fills us up. Um but does that mean that it's right? I don't know. I mean, it's a tough question, as being human beings on this earth and how we spend our time.

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

You know, it I think most of us, if if it was kept up on a a board or a screen that kept count of the hours that you spent with the Lord and then the hours you spent doing everything else, you you'd be appalled. Like, I haven't spent any time with the Lord this week. But we're all guilty of it.

SPEAKER_03:

Yep.

SPEAKER_00:

We just are, and it don't matter if you go to church Wednesdays, Sundays, Saturdays, you know, you're still guilty of it.

unknown:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

I mean, there's nobody that's not, I feel that's not guilty of that in one form or another.

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

So I would just go back to say, and I think you did have some other good questions in that thing you sent me, which I'd like you to address. But for me, I would say that whatever you're doing, if you feel that it's getting in the way of your relationship with God, then it's not good for you. Yeah. Then you you have to evaluate yourself and say, That was my biggest thing. That's that's you know, you have to look at yourself and say, what are the things in my life that are really getting in the way with my time with God? And those are the things I think you you need to change. And yeah. And for one person it might be Halloween.

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

For another person, it might be football.

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

Um well and whatever it might be drinking, it might be alcoholism or you know, whatever it is, it's that's what you have to look at.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah, and there is something in the New Testament that says, like, if your conscious like doesn't feel right about something, then don't do it. So it's like if you don't feel right about you know, taking your grandson trigger treating, don't do it because the Bible says don't, you know, don't feed on that then if that if it's making you feel bad, you know. So I and I I think that'll be it'll kind of be personal to everyone, like you were just saying, you know, some of them struggle with alcoholism, some people stru struggle with food, some people struggle with pornography, you know, like whatever it may be, you know, like Yeah, and but then if you're the one that celebrates Halloween, the plane people could say, Well, you're you're feeding that to that person that's struggling, so therefore you shouldn't do it, which again is a valid argument.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, but then we could be like, Okay, then we can't have football no more, nobody can sell beer anymore, all those they all got to go out of business. Yep. We got we gotta get away from all of it because we're all doing something that's probably harming somebody spiritually. Yeah. Think about it. We're we we're all ability of doing things every single day that harm people's spirituality, even if we have no intention of doing it. Yeah, it's not why we're doing it, but the fact of the matter is it it it just is.

SPEAKER_05:

Yeah. I think the big thing for me is it does not feel right with me. Yeah. That's exactly what I'm saying.

SPEAKER_02:

And why would you try to like push your limits if you don't feel comfortable, you know? But yet I I want that time with my grandchildren.

SPEAKER_05:

And my grandchildren usually like they're they're not going as that's what I was just about to say. They're not going as they're going as Titanic, this and that. Yeah. My daughter can come up with some that's just out there a little bit, but you just gotta know her.

SPEAKER_00:

You know, and um, my uh my mom's brother's wife, she did not believe in Santa Claus.

SPEAKER_03:

Uh-huh.

SPEAKER_00:

So when we were kids, you know, and they had kids, we were some of us were around the same age. They didn't get a Santa Claus because that was a lie. That was something that was made up, that was not of the word. Um, so they were not allowed to have Santa Claus. And then so us as kids, we would have when they came over for Christmas, we were not allowed to talk about what Santa brought us for Christmas. Which to us kids was like, It's crazy.

SPEAKER_02:

You're killing me.

SPEAKER_00:

Like, how can you as a kid not like be excited?

SPEAKER_02:

Be excited and asked what did you get.

SPEAKER_00:

But that was the reality of it for her, she felt for her and her family. Like she was lying to her kids by saying there's a Santa Claus.

SPEAKER_02:

And that's that's coming, that's getting big again. Like people are now doing that again. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

And but if you think about it, it's it's no different than what we're talking about. It's like, you know what? It is a lie. If you think about it, it is it's a story we've made up to make children feel good or to make children behave. And of course, Coca-Cola is actually the one that came up with the traditional Santa to sell more Coca-Cola in the wintertime, the sales would go down. That's why he's red and white and the way that he looks, the way that we know him. Um, of course, that story came out of history, but they borrowed that, took a little bit, and mixed it up, and of course, we have the Santa Claus that we all know and love.

SPEAKER_05:

Um I think the theory behind that is if you teach your children that Santa brings you this stuff, and then they find out there's not, you have been teaching them to believe in something that they can't see because it comes at night or whatever. So, how how do you want them to how are you gonna make them understand that God is real? Yeah, when they can't see it. When they can't see it when you've already built this lie upon them. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05:

Yeah. Valid point.

SPEAKER_00:

But again, you don't go tell your eight-year-old child that, oh, we were just fooling you. Santa Claus isn't real.

SPEAKER_02:

No.

SPEAKER_00:

You don't break a kid's heart at eight years old. Most kids figure it out like we did. We just we grew out of it.

SPEAKER_02:

Not me. My dad broke my heart. I'm not lying when I say that. He broke my heart. But but there was a valid point to that. He didn't I and I think I was nine or ten, you know, in third grade, fourth grade, third grade. But he was like, I just didn't want and if I'm not mistaken, I do believe my grandpa told him when he was like four or five. Like I think Don was five and he was four. Um, but his reason behind telling me was like I just didn't want you to start like because there at that point there are kids that are starting to not believe, and you know, we should probably um what am I thinking? Um topic, what am topic I'm trying to think of uh trending top like if you've got kids listening right now, maybe tone it down for like two minutes. But you know, he was telling um me, like, I just wanted to let you know, like that way I didn't want you to be the outcast at school and people to start make fun of, you know, because there wasn't I wasn't, you know, I wasn't really it was I was normal about everything, like I wasn't thinking, hey Santa's gonna come in two hours, like you know, on Santa Claus whenever they're you know, that whole thing. And um, it wasn't anything like that, but he was like, I just didn't want you to be 14 and still think that, you know what I mean? Because then there would be an issue, you know. I'm like, Yeah, I can kind of see that, you know. But that was kind of the whole point on, you know, on that.

SPEAKER_00:

I mean, I never knew a kid that came crying and my parents just told me, yeah.

SPEAKER_02:

And I should say, they told me, don't you tell your friends, like, don't you ruin this for your friends? You know, that's their that's their parents' responsibility or their you know decision to tell them or not to tell them, but don't you dare tell them. You know, don't ruin them.

SPEAKER_00:

I think honestly, it did it was like, are we still getting presents? Okay, cool. That's no big deal.

SPEAKER_02:

But you you can't be taking this away from me now. You already took the quote unquote truth away. Like you can't take this away too.

SPEAKER_00:

I don't care who brings them. Tooth fairy can bring them for all I care, which is you know, make sure they're here December 25th. Yes.

SPEAKER_02:

Uh okay, so another question that Jenny had was should Christians be using scripture for making people feel bad about their decision on doing Halloween? Or should it be kind of more uplifting?

SPEAKER_00:

Christians shouldn't be doing that about anything.

SPEAKER_02:

No, exactly.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, point blank. And I would think that if you do that, you're you're gonna do it with other things too.

SPEAKER_02:

Yep.

SPEAKER_00:

If you're gonna use that as a weapon, well, most likely you're gonna use scripture for other weapons.

SPEAKER_02:

Oh weapon for other things.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah. Yeah, that's not healthy. Uh no Christian should be using the word to belittle people. Yeah. And to making people feel bad. But I think some people yes, there's conviction. Yeah. We all know that. But I don't think that's I don't think that's a form of conviction. I don't know. Maybe you guys can argue that case, but well, that was my next question.

SPEAKER_02:

Is Halloween a personal conviction?

SPEAKER_00:

I don't look at it any different as I guess as I do the traditional Christmas. Like we all can't wait till November 1st so we can start listening to Christmas music. That's our house. Yeah. Like we can't wait at this point, we can't wait for Halloween to be over. So it's appropriate to listen to Bing Crosby.

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah. Right, yeah. At least Roger's looking at me like, are you nuts? But that's that's how we were. We love Christmas music, so we can't wait. But uh, yeah, I I don't think for so it's no, I don't I don't think any for me, that's again, for me personally, no, it is not a personal conviction. Christmas is not, I mean, Christmas as it's supposed to be is a personal conviction, but Santa Claus and um the American holiday as we've created it is not a personal conviction for me.

SPEAKER_02:

Now, as far like you know, like what Beth just brought up, like say you go to be you know, you'd be passing that house that was all gory and bloody and gruesome, like would you feel convict like conviction then?

SPEAKER_00:

Well, I would feel I know that's not what I do, uh huh. And I know why I don't do that. Yes. So, yes, in a sense, I would feel like okay, you know, because again, that's not that's not traditional Halloween in any way. That's not like so again, something has been taken and it's been taken to this level of oh now it means mass murder.

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

And you know, we got all these, you know, like like she's saying that display. It's like uh yeah, I I would I probably wouldn't take my kids past that house.

SPEAKER_05:

Yeah. Yeah. Okay.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05:

But that devil thing that they have is horrifying.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05:

I mean, it looks just like the pictures that you would see. We don't know what Satan looks like, but what the world tends to think it looks like.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, it it's yeah.

SPEAKER_05:

It's it's it's horrible.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah. Yeah. So no, I I wouldn't, you know, I'd be like, okay, kids, we're probably gonna skip that house.

SPEAKER_05:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

That's just a little too much.

SPEAKER_05:

I mean, and then it's a whole block almost. I mean. And then they give out then they they're making cotton candy and all the good stuff that every kid wants to go to.

SPEAKER_00:

I mean, I've got the Charlie Brown gang in my yard, I've got Stu Scooby-Doo in my yard, I've got Count Chocula, Boo Berry, and Frankenberry in my yard. I've got things like that. Like things that, you know.

SPEAKER_03:

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_00:

And I, you know, and yeah, I've got some witches, I've got a Grim Reaper, I've got Jack-o'-lanterns, I've got like the classic kind of Halloween, you know, what we know it to be. But no.

SPEAKER_05:

But your Grim Reaper's not holding the head. No, you know.

SPEAKER_00:

No, no. He's like, he's like the one on uh Christmas Carol, kind of. Kind of what you think of when you think of the ghost of yet uh what is it? Yet to come. Yeah. Um so yeah, I I would I I'll agree. I if if something would be too gory and stuff like that, I'd be like, nah, that's not yeah.

SPEAKER_05:

But when you were talking about the Bible verses or people using the Bible, I I don't know that that always is done to make a person feel guilty. I I think some people are led to be teachers and leaders, and they feel that it is their job or their responsibility. So they can't be very passionate about it. Yeah. Yeah. And it's all in how that other person maybe interprets it.

SPEAKER_02:

Well, I believe how they interpret it and then also how the person portrays it to them too, you know?

SPEAKER_00:

Mm-hmm. Yep.

SPEAKER_05:

I mean you can't come at somebody and try to share them. You can't just tell them they're gonna be able to do it.

SPEAKER_02:

Well, the Bible says, yeah, you know, yeah. I think you have to be cautious with every, you know, everything, especially when you're talking to a non-believer or someone that's hard to have things.

SPEAKER_00:

I had this lady, I was up on my roof fixing some things, and this lady drove by and she saw me up there, and she rolled the window down, and she had this really thick, like, southern accent, you know, really cool. And she's like, I just I just love your display. It just gives me so much joy. I just love coming by in here and looking at the light. She's like, now I don't celebrate Halloween, like I don't believe in it, and with my religious beliefs, you know, but I still. Really just enjoy coming by here. She's like, and you do such a fantastic job, and the community loves it so much. And I thought, okay, right there is a pretty um balanced religious person. Like even her, she doesn't celebrate Halloween, she doesn't believe in it.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

But she saw the good in it.

SPEAKER_02:

Right.

SPEAKER_00:

She saw what I was doing.

SPEAKER_02:

Yes.

SPEAKER_00:

And she's heard from other people how much they enjoy it. And even something in her loves to come by and just look at the life. Yeah. She gets some kind of joy out of it. I want to come see. I feel like I'm doing I'm doing I want to say I'm doing the right thing, but I do feel like I'm doing something good for the community that brings people together, makes them feel better for a few minutes or you know, whatever time they spent doing it. And I think, okay, you know, I'm, you know, I've never had anybody drive past my house and you know, start, you know, preaching to me about how it's, you know, uh what I've had displayed is an abominable God or I'm doing something wrong. So not that it might it might happen someday, I don't know.

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

But just when she said that to me, and I've never seen her before, talk to her before, I was just like, oh, okay. Yeah. You know, she's yeah. What else you got? Any more?

SPEAKER_02:

No, I just wanted to end with I really wanted Michael to be on this one because I feel like he's got a lot to say, you know, as far as this um topic. And I think that's why I thought we had a full podcast about it because we we talked about, you know, it was brought up a lot, I feel. But he did, I didn't even text him or anything. He sent me a, I don't know, I think it was a two-minute click up clip of someone kind of talking about this specific, you know, um topic. And um this guy was talking about the passage in First Corinthians eight. Um, so it was like a group of pagans or previous pagans that were converted to Christians, and they were saying, Hey, you know, there's some I'm just paraphrasing this, but there's some meat over at the market that typically we would have to buy for the idols, you know, the the gods that we used to worship, like can, you know, can we buy that now? You know, and he's like basically says, Well, you're you know, you're not using it for that idol anymore. So yeah, yeah, you enjoy the, you know, enjoy the meat, you know, like and that was kind of like you could almost base it on Halloween.

SPEAKER_00:

Like you're not well if you're a person that's using Halloween to worship the devil, guess what? You're using other stuff too. Exactly. I'm using whatever's handy, whatever you can do to advance that cause for whatever you think it is and what it's gonna do for your life, which could be a whole topic in itself. Um, you know, I I've said many times, you know, I see somebody driving their car and they got a bumper stick it, like they've already got their ticket to hell. I'm like, what? Like, how could you put that on your car? Like for everybody to see, like you've already reserved your ticket in hell. Yep. I actually saw that bumper sticker and I thought, what? Like, what what is the like I don't know, but you know, like again, that could be a whole other topic.

SPEAKER_02:

What did you say? What do you think the topic could be? Because I'll write it down.

SPEAKER_00:

Um, you have these people that have this, I guess this idea of what hell's gonna be like.

SPEAKER_02:

Like you know, we're we're idolizing hell, really.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, they're idolizing hell, and it's this place that they've created in their mind that somehow they think is gonna work out to their advantage. Like they can't wait to get there. Um Party Central. Yeah, and or it's just like it's it's doing something positive in their life or advancing them forward, and I don't you know, yeah, it just just seems like they bought a ticket to Cedar Point, or you know, and they don't really they don't really see they don't know what they're actually saying.

SPEAKER_02:

Yes.

SPEAKER_00:

Because well let's face it, i if you don't know Jesus, then most likely you don't know hell. Like you think you do. Because because again, what the world has made hell is and that's not what it is. Nope. So there's a lot of people walking around in the world thinking hell is this cool place. Like, I don't care if we all go to hell as long as it's gonna be a party. No, yeah, that's not what it's gonna be. I'm I don't care what ACDC told you. Cooper, if you're listening. That's not what it's gonna be. So it's just uh yeah. I don't know how you could word that in an actual topic in a few words, but uh work on that. I see what you mean though. Yeah, yeah. I mean it's it's just uh it's it's crazy what some people will pronounce in the name of hell. It's crazy.

SPEAKER_02:

And eternity, like that's your eternity.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, that's your that's you're like you're flirting you're flirting with that, you know.

SPEAKER_02:

You're like oh no, nope.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02:

So well, that was good. I was excited for that. That was fun. And I'm not a big like Halloween person either. I I have gotten a little more into it now with Cooper. With the I also feel like the lights have there always been as many lights and like blow up things, or am I just now realizing it because he enjoys them? You're just noticing them. Yeah. Yeah. That's what I was thinking.

unknown:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

It's I mean, it's it's seems like it gets, you know, between Lowe's and Home Depot. And every year that's it's you know bigger and better.

SPEAKER_01:

And just take your checkbook when you go.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, yeah. But that's saying Christmas. I mean, they started releasing Halloween in early August. And of course, everybody already everybody already has their Christmas stuff up, and we've already bought stuff for Christmas. Promised ourselves we wouldn't do it. Now we got all this stuff, and I'm like, how in the world now? I'm like, I'm gonna have to start Oh yeah. I already told her, I'm like, I usually have it lit by Thanksgiving evening. I don't I don't even think I'm shooting for that. I think I'll just go with December 1st because that's just too much pressure. I got too much to do. Yeah. It's just yeah, it's just gone beyond discussion. Well, what one person can handle and see I'm really itching to start decorating for Christmas. Yeah, we all that's what I said.

SPEAKER_02:

We're all just waiting for Halloween to be over so we can listen to Christmas music and get you know and start decorating and you know, but even up until a few years ago, I would always try to wait until Thanksgiving was over just because I'm like, poor Thanksgiving. Yeah, I don't want to forget about you.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02:

I'm like, I don't care.

SPEAKER_00:

We try that, but it doesn't work. That's the way it was at my house as a kid. Yeah, you didn't yeah, you didn't even do anything with Christmas until the day after Thanksgiving.

SPEAKER_02:

That's when we did it. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Same. To me, it's just like Ohio is so dreary and gross, literally from October to like May. Like, why not brighten it up a little bit with some fun things with Halloween and you know Christmas and we can do to light it up? Yeah. I mean, it's gonna what? That this Sunday will be the time change. So at 5, 5:30, it's gonna get dark. Like lights out. Yeah.

SPEAKER_05:

Is it the Sunday?

SPEAKER_01:

I thought it was we got check, we got a text from church.

SPEAKER_05:

Did your phone work? Yeah, my phone works.

SPEAKER_00:

We're actually lucky. They used to do it before Halloween, remember? Yeah. Because we were kids, we were trick-or-treating the whole time in the dark.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah, this is I think they said this is the latest one of the year so far.

SPEAKER_00:

We're getting more.

SPEAKER_05:

I can remember taking Sarah and Clayton trick-or-treating when they were little and it was snowing.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah. Oh, yeah. I remember that. Yeah. Yeah. So yeah, we're getting more daylight now than we ever have, but um, but still, it's a long six months in Ohio.

SPEAKER_02:

I hate time changing. I hate it. I hate it. I hate it.

SPEAKER_00:

And I know it's only four months, but winter just seems to last six months here.

SPEAKER_02:

It does. It's it's from October to April. Like, and this October hasn't been bad, you know, because it was it was very warm and dry, but it's like dreary and yep.

SPEAKER_05:

Yeah. Now, so we fell back. We get an extra hour. Yes. Oh well, I'll be in church.

SPEAKER_04:

We'll still be late.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, we'll still all be walking in five after.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah. All right. Whose turn is it to pray? Do we remember?

SPEAKER_00:

I had the privilege of doing the last one.

SPEAKER_02:

Oh, did you? Did you? Yeah. Okay. That's on you, Roger. Okay.

SPEAKER_04:

Bye.

SPEAKER_02:

Oh, I hit the wrong button.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, I knew it. There. Heavenly Father, we do thank you, Lord, for this day. Lord, we just ask you to stick and be with each person that's that's heard this podcast, Lord. Let them let their minds and souls think about what they want to do for Halloween. How they how they view it, Lord. Lord, we just thank you for this opportunity to come together, Lord. We just we we enjoy each other's company, Lord, and we enjoy talking about you. We these these subjects that we talk about, Lord, they're they're everyday lives. The things that happen every every day. And we just thank you for this privilege, Lord, of bringing them to the to the masses, Lord. And Lord, we just ask you to take him be with be with the pastor and his family as they go on vacation, Lord. Um give him safe travels, allow them to have a good time, a relaxation time, and a recharging time, Lord, so that they can continue to praise you and bring your word to the masses of this church, Lord. We just thank you for them. Lord, we just ask us all in Jesus' most precious name. Amen.

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Michael Brindley

Host
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Beth Jarvis

Co-host
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Dawn Reed-Enochs

Co-host
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Nic Affolter

Co-host
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Roger Deardorff

Co-host
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Sydney Erickson

Co-host

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