Growing Together
Step into a virtual garden of spiritual growth and community connection with the "Growing Together" podcast. This podcast is a nurturing space for individuals seeking to deepen their faith, cultivate relationships, and explore the boundless beauty of a shared spiritual journey.
Each episode of "Growing Together" is a breath of fresh air, where Pastor Michael, Syd, Nic, Pastor Holly, and Pastor Roger try to navigate the twists and turns of life while staying rooted in faith. Their warm and inviting presence makes you feel like you're sitting in a cozy living room, engaged in a heartfelt conversation with old friends.
Diving into topics ranging from personal growth and self-care to building resilient relationships and fostering a sense of community, the podcast aims to equip listeners with the tools to nurture their faith in all aspects of life. Through scripture readings, open discussions, and interviews with experts in various fields, "Growing Together" provides a holistic approach to spiritual development.
Whether you're a lifelong believer, a seeker on the spiritual path, or simply someone curious about how faith can shape lives, "Growing Together" offers a welcoming haven for everyone. Tune in during your morning routine, while taking a leisurely stroll, or even during a quiet moment of reflection – the podcast fits seamlessly into your daily life.
Join the "Growing Together" community and embark on a journey of discovery, growth, and genuine connection. In a world that can sometimes feel disconnected, this podcast reminds us that nurturing our faith and cultivating meaningful relationships can lead to a life that's deeply fulfilling and spiritually abundant. Subscribe now to start your journey of growing together in faith and fellowship.
Growing Together
One-Way Ticket to Hell
A gold “ticket to hell” bumper sticker shouldn’t be profound, but it jolted us. That small joke pulled a thread that led to bigger questions: Why do so many people shrug at hell? How did music, media, and memes convince us that darkness looks brave and light looks boring? And what if the truth about hell isn’t camaraderie in the flames, but isolation, misery, and the absence of God’s presence?
We dig into how culture sells a counterfeit of strength—loud, edgy, and always self-led—while the gospel invites us into real strength in Jesus. We talk candidly about heavy metal imagery, “choose death” slogans, and why we often accept spiritual poison on our radios yet push back when someone mentions Scripture. Then we flip the script: what if we led with love, patience, and small daily choices that point to God’s goodness? From calming an angry customer to simply saying “God’s been good to us today,” we share practical ways to witness without preaching.
Along the way, we explore why Gen Z may be turning to the Bible in a world crowded with AI, deepfakes, and constant noise. We share a better vision of faith as purpose, joy, and courage, not a last-minute escape plan. Don’t wait for a deathbed turnaround—this life is a gift meant to be lived with God’s grace now. If you’ve ever wondered how to talk about hell without fear tactics, how to help friends who think it’s all a party, or how to embody Christ in ordinary moments, this conversation is for you.
If this resonates, share it with a friend, subscribe, and leave a review with the biggest idea that challenged you today. Your words help others find real hope.
Why? The weather and just because it last weekend it rained and that was like just cut yeah. That just got me off on the wrong foot. Now it's now it's been pretty windy. Yeah. But I got all the big I got all the blow ups down. At least I got them underneath the porch so they can't continue to get wet. Because that's such a big thing. I have to wait till those dry to put them away.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:So I gotta get them all. So if I just today I got up on the roof, got those down, got them underneath uh so they'll stay dry. I mean, it's supposed to be sunny tomorrow.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:And I got a couple hanging up. I want to get a little more dried up, but yeah, it's just uh and of course with the time change, then it's you get home from work late, then you eat supper, and then you need your headlight so you can go out and work. Yeah. Yeah. Well, I was out there last night until probably 7, 7.
SPEAKER_02:I've got a Tobulgan that has a little lamp in it if you want it.
SPEAKER_00:And I don't mind like during Christmas time, I don't mind being out there putting stuff up in the dark, but there's just something about tearing it down in the dark. I'm just like don't have that motivation anymore. Oh, yeah. Because when I'm putting it up, I'm kind of excited. Yeah. Like, what's it gonna look like? Tearing it down. I'm just like, I just want to get this over with so I can start Christmas.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:But yeah, so it's it's kind of slow going so far. And this weekend don't look much better. Like I think Friday's Friday's supposed to rain Friday. So I don't know. And I gotta get the grass mode one more time. Got to. I can't put up decorations if in a hayfield. Yeah. I just yeah, it just looks shabby. I can't do it. So we don't have snow on Monday.
SPEAKER_02:That's what I was about to say. Someone told me really.
SPEAKER_00:Oh they said a chance of snow on Monday. And I've been seeing lots and lots of caterpillars. Yeah. Black one, orange ones. What does that mean? On my porch. Doesn't that mean a harsh winter? Yeah, I think it does.
SPEAKER_06:But there's a lot of I on one way or the other, there's a lot of there's a lot of black.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. I think it's more harsh. If they're orange, it's mild.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. But I've just seen more of them than usual this year. You know what?
SPEAKER_02:Now that you say that, I have too.
SPEAKER_00:They're getting ready to hunker down for the winter.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:So might be coming early.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah. I shouldn't say early, but if it comes early and doesn't stay as long, I I'll I'll take it. Yeah.
SPEAKER_06:We'll take that.
SPEAKER_02:Don't stay till May, please.
SPEAKER_06:We you know, you should stop and think. We really haven't had any bad winters here.
SPEAKER_02:No, I know.
SPEAKER_06:Three, four years. Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:I mean Well, right after Christmas last year it got pretty ugly because I couldn't put my decorations away because they were all underneath ice.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:And I had to wait for it all to fall out. It was like right after New Year. We got a bad, I think a good snowstorm and an ice storm. Oh, and it was like built on top of each other.
SPEAKER_02:It was like cold. It was really cold and then it froze. Yeah, I remember that.
SPEAKER_00:So yeah. But you're right.
SPEAKER_06:Otherwise, yeah, we haven't really had I mean, you know, when I yeah, when I was a kid, here we go. When it started when it snowed, it stayed until April. You know.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah.
SPEAKER_06:I mean, you know, it was it was it was bad. You know. I guess when I But you still went to school. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:And walked uphill. Both ways. Both ways.
SPEAKER_06:No, just one way. Just one way. It was downhill, downhill going home. But it was uphill going to school. Yes, it was. You know, everybody says, Oh, yeah, walked uphill. Going to school uphill. Well, yeah, it was uphill.
SPEAKER_01:Did you have to go in your bare feet too?
SPEAKER_06:Nope.
SPEAKER_01:That's good.
SPEAKER_06:No.
SPEAKER_00:Carry your books in a potato sack.
SPEAKER_06:No. I hear about any books all.
SPEAKER_02:He's like, what books? Yeah. What are you talking about?
SPEAKER_00:Maggie said something today that she thinks uh they're now grading tests with AI.
SPEAKER_02:Really? Well, you know what?
SPEAKER_00:I thought, you know, and but but at the same time, she was like, Yeah, the teacher was really watching to make sure that we weren't using AI for the test. But they're and she had something up on her computer, and maybe the teacher got the impression that she was using it. But she's like, Yeah, but they're using AI to grade it. And I was like, Well, it's sad to say, but that's the world we live in. Because everybody's gonna use AI one way or the other. Nothing's gonna stop it now.
SPEAKER_02:Yep. You know, I was thinking that the other day, I'm like, man, you know, like I probably could have went, and I I'm sure I could have gone to college, like if if I really put my mind to it, but not with AI, I really could have gone to college and just pass with passing colors. Like, I mean not me.
SPEAKER_07:I don't know how what how AI works.
SPEAKER_02:Just say, hey, hey, AI, how do I use you? And it'll tell you. And then it'll even say, I can actually get that started for you if you'd like.
SPEAKER_07:Just tap this button and then it just buttons because you know, things dis disappear.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah.
SPEAKER_07:I don't like that.
SPEAKER_02:I told Cooper the other day like how he was really pushing my buttons or something. He's obsessed with buttons, and he got so confused. He's like, What? I was like, Oh yeah. Where are these buttons? Bad sense of words, like bad choice of words. Yeah. Buttons. I'm trying to think of button button. Who's got the button? The topic.
SPEAKER_06:What are you talking about?
SPEAKER_02:I'm trying to think of a segue for the topic with buttons, but I don't think it's gonna work. Nope.
SPEAKER_01:I don't see it happening.
SPEAKER_00:Well, a lot of people are just pressing that elevator button down.
SPEAKER_02:Ooh, there you go. Yeah, there you go. Straight down.
SPEAKER_00:They get in that elevator and they're like, Yep, one-way ticket. Bottom floor, please.
SPEAKER_01:It's gonna be great. Go to party. My friends are gonna be there. Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:So we're talking about.
SPEAKER_06:And boy, are they gonna get disappointed?
SPEAKER_02:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:The one-way ticket to hell and how everyone's if you listen to the show, you've heard me already talk about it. But I brought up several times that this idea came to me because I'm driving behind somebody with a bumper sticker that says, I I can't remember the exact saying, but more or less that they have their ticket to hell reserved. And of course the bumper sticker was in the shape of like a movie ticket. And in the middle of it, it said something to that effect, you know, I've already got my ticket for hell. And I thought, how much thought did you put behind that before you attached that to the back of your vehicle for everybody to see? But then again, when you start thinking about it, that's that's where a lot of people are, is they they don't really take hell seriously. To them, it's it's like any other idea or slogan. You know, they're they're not thinking very deep about the subject.
SPEAKER_02:I think they're looking at it more so like as a place, and it needs to be more of a like a well like a yeah, maybe your well-being, like your relationship with the Lord.
SPEAKER_00:Like maybe sometimes you gotta look at it this way. Like some people think they are going to hell, but in fact, hell is going to consume their soul. And so you it's not like you're even gonna have a place there. Your soul is gonna be consumed by it. And you know, when you hear in the Bible that they discuss about, you know, gnashing of teeth and wailing and you know the darkness and all that, it's not that you'll be with all these people. Right. It's like a state of being.
SPEAKER_02:Like I'm happy, sad.
SPEAKER_00:Just misery. Misery.
SPEAKER_02:Constant torment.
SPEAKER_00:Yep. Yeah. So you may never you may never see another living human being you know, in that state.
SPEAKER_02:No.
SPEAKER_00:Which is probably part of it. Like you're not gonna, you know, have fellowship with anything other than your misery.
SPEAKER_02:I uh looked up, this is our little history lesson for the word hell. So when Jesus was, you know, preaching about it, it was would it have been Hebrew or Greek? You know, offhand.
SPEAKER_06:It's been Hebrew. Hebrew? Okay. Oh yeah, done. Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:So it was Hebrew for Jenena. I don't know if I'm pronouncing it right. It's G-E N E N N A. But that was actually referring to the valley of Hinnem, which was in the Old Testament, like Jeremiah. I think it was Jeremiah.
SPEAKER_00:And this is an actual place.
SPEAKER_02:And this actual place used to be a place where the Israelites had to sacrifice their children. So like that's what he's referring to. Like, if anyone later to you know, and then after all of this is said and done, all these sacrifices happen. I don't know how many years later, but they ended up just using this like area to burn garbage. So it's like you couldn't even go to the place that you sacrificed your child because they're just burning garbage. Like, that's this kind of place that Jesus was referring to. And like, you know, we're not talking about this place where we're going to be able to just, oh, lol-la and hang out with our friends because we're all going to be.
SPEAKER_00:It's not gonna be Woodstock. No, it's not gonna be uh, you know, you're not gonna have seven different stages set up with all your favorite heavy metal bands and all your friends will be there partying with you.
SPEAKER_06:And well, you might because they might be there too.
SPEAKER_00:Well, like I said, I I doubt you're gonna really see them. And I don't think there's yeah, but uh, but that's that's the cult, it's it's a culture. And you know, when we were our episode on Halloween last week, you know, one we didn't bring up when we're talking about, you know, we talked a lot about football, but you know, rock and roll, which since its inception has a lot of people have called it the devil's music. You know, that and you can argue that one way or the other, but certainly, you know, Satan has taken hold of certain parts of that music, yeah. And people have used it as a way to honor him. You know, there's a lot of bands out there that are directly that, you know, their their songs are all about it, you know, worship worshiping Satan. And well, not only music, I mean, if you think about it, like the whole world, like you know, I mean we do worship our idols, our musical idols, you know, especially here in America on a level, you know, that we we probably shouldn't do, but it's like anything else, but rock and roll music. I mean, and maybe not even so much rock and roll, but when we get into heavy metal stuff like that, yeah, there's a lot of bands that that's that's their gig. You know, that's what they do is they write songs about it, they worship Satan through it. And whether, and whether they truly realize what they're doing or not, I don't know. Because, you know, when I was in high school, I was a musician, I was learning to play guitar. And so, of course, I hung out with other kids that played music to play guitar. It was just gravitated towards people that did that. And you did have a lot of young guys who love these bands that, you know, that clearly some of their songs were about Satan, or they have a pentagram as their logo, different things like that. Right. But these kids, they'd be like the nicest kids in the world, like they weren't like mean themselves, or yeah, they didn't really show any signs of like worshiping the devil or anything, anything violent, yeah, anything like that. They were just they were really nice, down-to-earth kids. But for some reason, they were really into that music. And so that's why I think a lot of people sometimes they they don't even realize what they're truly doing. Like somehow they've accepted that culture and think it's cool and think it's a way to express themselves for whatever maybe feelings that they're having. And they just don't realize what what what what they're at what's actually behind all that. So it's interesting that, you know, just just like this we talked about Salem and and young women wanting to be witches now, even though the women themselves at the time did not want to be accused of being a witch, we have this thing with rock and roll, with musicians, heavy metal, that there is we there is a culture that has been built that is all about that. And you just have to question, you know, because a lot of times, as I said, you don't see these people like coming up in the news as being violent people or doing this, doing that, but they're you know, they're singing the praise of of Satan and their music. Yeah. And it's just like I said, we've just accepted it as part of our culture. There's even other songs like you know, Highway to Hell by A C D C like you know, comes on the radio. I'll bet you, I'll bet you there's not a second in this country of every hour, every day where that song is not playing somewhere on the radio.
SPEAKER_01:That's on Jarve, like immediately he turns it off, boom. He's like, that is the worst satanic song.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, but we just accept it. You know, if you hear it, a lot of times you hear it on the radio or at work or whatever. It's we've accepted as a as a part of culture. Yeah. And that's a very dangerous song.
SPEAKER_01:And didn't he die shortly after writing that song?
SPEAKER_00:Uh you might be right about that.
SPEAKER_01:I think he did.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, he might be right about that. Very sure. I know, I know he, yeah, it wasn't definitely wasn't very long after.
SPEAKER_02:So yeah, it's it's it's an interesting thing to Well, I was about to say when you were talking about that, I'm like, you know, how many episodes have we done all together, you think? A lot.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, we're into our third season. I mean, if if if we're if we're doing well, I mean we're 45, 50 episodes a year.
SPEAKER_02:And this is our fourth year.
SPEAKER_00:Well, this is season three.
SPEAKER_02:Season three. Okay.
SPEAKER_00:So I think it's three years.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, that's right. We'll be heading into our fourth. Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:But I'm like, you know, it took us this long to even talk about this. And it's like, oh, wonder why.
SPEAKER_00:You know, because it's something that people just, like you said, brush off or don't want to speak on, or you know, and well, it's just it's one of those things where it's it's hard to it's hard to wrap your head around it.
SPEAKER_06:And nobody wants to think that they're going to go to hell.
SPEAKER_05:Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:No.
SPEAKER_00:No. But you know, but we got these people that that think, well, that's okay, that's okay if I go because all my friends will be there. Like they're not that worried about it. Like they think, well, yeah, maybe it might not be the best thing in the world, but you know what, all my friends will be there.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:That doesn't really make any sense.
SPEAKER_02:And you know how you see, I don't know if it's movies or but you always see them like showing Satan as like this roller of hell or something. You know what I mean? Which sure, but like he's not having fun with you. Like he is in misery. And I read something that said, like, he's so jealous of us because we had have the choice to get redeemed. Well, he's jealous, and he never did and never does and never will.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, God loves us in a way that he doesn't love Satan.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:And so, yeah, he's that's so he's jealous.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, exactly. Like, you're not going to be down there having a party with Satan. Like, he's gonna hate you. Like, I don't think people realize that. Satan's not gonna be your buddy. No, like that's not how it's gonna be.
SPEAKER_00:No, he he's there to you know.
SPEAKER_06:He's the tormentor, yeah.
SPEAKER_00:He he he's gonna he's gonna torment, he's gonna torment you because he's the liar, you know, he's the liar that's gonna make and and that's the thing, is there's certain things in our society and our world that on paper they look good. Yeah, you know, they look, and those are the things that you know Satan will use to bring you to his side. And and all he's trying to do is he doesn't want you to look the other way, he doesn't want you to look toward God. So whatever he can use to keep you, you know, to keep you off balance, to keep you distracted, that's what he's gonna do till the very end when you realize, oh, it's too late.
SPEAKER_05:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:You know, and then he's gonna reveal himself as what he truly is. Yeah. And it's not, you know, in these bands, you know, you can have all this elaborate artwork of what the devil may look like and all this stuff. And it's probably like he probably doesn't look anything like we projected to the right.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, just like with Jesus, you know, like Yeah.
SPEAKER_06:He was one of the one of the one of the chosen angels. Yeah. I mean, you know.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah.
SPEAKER_06:So I mean he's he's I don't think I don't think he's ugly.
SPEAKER_00:Right. Yeah.
SPEAKER_06:And I think that's what gets a lot of people.
SPEAKER_03:Society, yeah.
SPEAKER_06:Because, you know, they they they look at Satan as being, you know, with pitchfork and you know, horns and all that. But you know, he's gonna look just like us. Yeah. And he that's that's how he that's how he gets his hooks into us. Mm-hmm. Yeah. You know, believing, oh yeah, okay, yeah, this is pretty cool. I'm I think I'm gonna go ahead and do this. Yeah. And after after you do it, figure out you get to thinking, well, yeah, that was pretty dumb. Yeah. Why did I do that?
SPEAKER_01:Well, I also believe that because he was over the music in heaven, yeah. That that's why he's got such a hold on music nowadays.
SPEAKER_02:Oh, I didn't realize he was say that again.
SPEAKER_01:He was he was the musician in heaven. I didn't know that. And so he realizes the power that it can be in that. So he utilizes that to, I think, work through the music. Sure.
SPEAKER_00:Okay. I did not know that either.
SPEAKER_01:And I don't know where I've learned that, but I learned that over the years. Now after I've said it online, I'm gonna Google, make sure it's true.
SPEAKER_02:Well, it's like, okay, clearly God isn't going to be there. Everyone knows that. You know, it's like in hell.
SPEAKER_00:Oh right. Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:So it's like, but wherever God is not, because God is light, God is, you know, a breath of fresh air. All these things, like, okay, so if if God is light, clearly it's going to be so dark there. If you know, if he's a breath of fresh air, like you're going to be suffocating. Like it's going to be more than just the gnawing of the teeth. Like I don't I don't know.
SPEAKER_00:People just well, I think one thing that another interesting thing is I think a lot of these people identify the devil as some sort of strength, some sort of physical power. You know, that they it's almost like, you know, you can rally around Satan because, as I said, these images, a lot of times he's really big, he's really muscular, he's really he's on fire, he's you know, he looks like, yeah, he just like, oh yeah, that's for whatever reason. Yeah, that's some dude we want to follow, that's some dude we want to hang out with. And unfortunately for Christianity and Jesus, a lot of young people, a lot of people in general can look at Christianity, the Bible, church as belong belonging to old ladies and the weak and the people that are afraid to die, or the people that are, you know, have weaknesses that are trying to cling to something that isn't there. So we know that Jesus has all the power. We know he has total power over Satan. His strength is a hundred thousand billion, million times stronger than anything the devil could bring against us. But people don't see Jesus as strength.
SPEAKER_05:Right.
SPEAKER_00:I mean, we do. Yeah. Like people that truly know, we do. But there's I think a lot of young people and a lot of people in general that don't see it that way. Yeah. They see like churches for old ladies. Like a week or like it's just, you know, it's not cool. You know, there's nothing cool about it. And that's why they gravitate towards, you know, these dark images and the music, which sounds really, you know, masculine and it's really loud and it's tough, and it's and so I think especially a lot of young men can gravitate towards that because they're looking for something. They there's something they don't have, yeah, that they need that they're looking for, and for whatever reason, they gravitate towards that instead of gravitating toward Jesus. And perhaps it's just because, yeah, if you gravitate towards the devil, there's no expectation.
SPEAKER_05:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:I mean, think about there's no expectation from you to do anything other than do whatever you want to do. Where if you come to Jesus, well, guess what? You got expectations. There's things that you're expected to do, there's you're expected to live a certain way, and that's just too much for people to handle.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah. It's so true.
SPEAKER_00:So, you know, it's it's all those things I think that you know, that people I I think it's just uh it's a culture, I really do think it's a culture that people fall into. Not I don't even think so much that it's a religion that they fall into as much as it is a culture.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah. Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:And that's an interesting thing. You know, I I don't know if a lot of young men go into that thinking I want to worship the devil. I think sometimes it has more to do with they're already looking for something. And they just gravitate towards that because number one, it's in our culture. And it's easy. It's easy, and it seems tough. It seems like it's gonna build you up and keep you from getting hurt or keep you from you know this or that. But yeah. And you know, I I think it's just hard for me, like, because I just tend to think that those people will spend the rest of their lives always searching for something.
SPEAKER_02:Oh, yeah. The next best thing or the next high.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, or you can never let your guard down. You're gonna spend the rest of your life. Like, I know guys that I went to high school with, and I'll see them, and they're still like painting their fingernails black. I'm like, that might have been cool when you were 16, 18, 20 years old, but you're almost like 50 years old, and you're still painting your fingernails black. It's like, let it go. Like, what is it that and and I know that's a carryover from that lifestyle, from that music.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_00:That imagery from all of that. And I think, what in the world are you possibly at this point in your life getting out of that? No, what is it doing for you? No, because it's like, well, yeah, dude still don't have a job. Yep, dude's still living with his mom.
SPEAKER_02:Dudes still have like an identity crisis 30 years later.
SPEAKER_00:You can tell they're still searching for something that they don't have and they can't get it, and they can't figure out why.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. And that's what puzzles me the most, is like little bit of a lot of people.
SPEAKER_02:You haven't even opened that considered. Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:You haven't even considered the other side.
SPEAKER_02:Right. Yeah. You've just you're you're probably so lost, so dark, or so deep into that, where you're like, not that you're questioning, well, it's not like I can open the Bible now because it's always there for you, you know, but they're probably like, well, I've gone this far. I I don't want to be wrong. And it's like, well, I mean I'm sorry, you're wrong. I mean, okay, or that's your eternity. Yeah.
SPEAKER_06:A little trivia.
SPEAKER_02:Oh, yes.
SPEAKER_06:How many times is hell it mentioned in the Bible?
SPEAKER_02:Oh well, I researched it in my Bible. I went into the index.
SPEAKER_06:Did you count 'em?
SPEAKER_02:I didn't, no, but I'm gonna say like eight.
SPEAKER_00:Uh huh. I was gonna say is it? I think it's more, isn't it? Is it more or less?
SPEAKER_06:It's more.
SPEAKER_02:It's more. Oh, like a lot more? What is it?
SPEAKER_06:54 times.
SPEAKER_02:54.
SPEAKER_00:I was gonna say eight times eight, sixty-four.
SPEAKER_06:That's what I was trying to think. I was trying to think of what would come up. Yeah. But yeah, 54 times.
SPEAKER_02:Is it more in the old testament? Uh it's about half anything. Good mix. Okay.
SPEAKER_06:I would say I would say there it's it's there's more in the New Testament. Really? Because of Jesus' teachings. Right, right. And teaching of hell and revelations.
SPEAKER_01:The lake of fire.
SPEAKER_06:Yeah, yeah, there's I think I think in Revelations, but I think it in Revelations it's only mentioned like maybe five times.
SPEAKER_03:Okay. Huh.
SPEAKER_06:But yeah. Like most most of them, I mean, there are there are there are quite a few in the in the Old Testament. Old Testament. Yeah. That's just God, you know, trying to scare everybody into it.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_06:You know, when Jesus comes, why he knows where it's at. So, you know, you gotta pay a little more attention.
SPEAKER_00:Well, you know, the thing about our culture is, you know, that for some reason we're always infatuated by the villain.
SPEAKER_05:Mm-hmm.
SPEAKER_00:Like in any movie or, you know, there's you're just people are just always infatuated with the villain.
SPEAKER_06:Yeah, but you can always you can always spot him.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. But it's just like, you know, there's no Batman without the Joker. And you gotta have the Joker to have Batman. You just do. But a lot of people could be like, I love Joker, he's the coolest villain ever. And sometimes I think that's another thing. Like we we idolize. Idolize villains in our society sometimes, you know, because they're maybe even people that are not even much civilians, but just like they're the anti-hero. Yeah. It's very easy to, you know, like we we idolize anti-heroes. And this goes back to just, you know, TV and Netflix, and we can make we can make the worst people. Uh as we were talking about Ed Gean, like they found a guy that's really good looking to play the part. You know, and so they try to make him look like him, but it's like, well, you you know, he he looks still he's a good looking guy. And it's like, so it's like we try to raise, raise up these people to this level of to where, yeah, we want to watch this stuff. We want to see what the villain's gonna do next. So maybe that has something to do with it as well, is we can't help but, you know, honor the villain at times. And you always want to see the villain come back one more time, and which again, you know, good versus evil, you have to have evil to, you know, for the good to overcome.
SPEAKER_02:Right.
SPEAKER_00:In any in any of those situations. But but yeah, I mean, you can have a lot of people that prefer the villains over the heroes.
unknown:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:Even though they're not necessarily that way, like they don't they would never like hurt another human being, or but there's just something about it.
SPEAKER_02:There's just something about and I don't think they realize it either.
SPEAKER_00:Right, yeah. That they're you know, it kind of starts when you're a kid. You know, when you're a kid, you kind of do that. You know, you've watched these movies and these TV shows, and the villains get to have all the fun, they get to do all the things that as human beings we would never do.
SPEAKER_03:Right.
SPEAKER_00:So sometimes you know you can live in that fantasy of thinking, oh that, you know, yeah, he's pretty cool.
SPEAKER_06:But yeah, but at the end, you gotta think you're gonna get caught.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, yeah, you know, it's gonna end badly. Yeah, yeah. And we all love, you know, and and most of the time it's like we all want to see, you know, the the villain get defeated one more time, but you're always happy when he comes back again. So it's just it's just again, society and culture, I think, kind of helps that along. And then, you know, we've made this industry, like I said, out of these something as simple simple as a bumper sticker. Somebody probably just saw that, thought it was funny, and decided to put it on the back of their vehicle, not realizing that yeah, you really have just bought your ticket to hell. Yeah. Because you really you don't realize what what you're doing.
SPEAKER_01:Right. Yeah. Yeah. But don't you think people get caught up in their life and they they know hell is real, but I'm a I'm a good person, so I don't have to worry about that. Yeah, and then they just plow through life before and life goes by so fast that they're never given that opportunity to make things right.
SPEAKER_00:I think you're right.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah. But but the thing is, is they they get so many opportunities throughout their life from God to just turn it around or just give your life to him. You wake up every single day. That is a miracle in itself. You can easily turn it around right there, and you know, like because people are saying, well, you know, I've always been a good person, but I or you know, I what if it's I've been a good person, but I've never, you know, had a relationship with him. Well, you had how many years, which is how many days, like he and like you know, like Pastor Michael says, like, he's God's a gentleman, he's not gonna force himself on you, especially if you don't want that relationship, like for your eternity. Like, I think that speaks volumes. Like, no wonder he's not pushing himself on you, because if you don't want if you don't want that, then not that he doesn't want you, but I don't think you're deserving of it if you don't want that. You know what I mean?
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, and let's be honest how many People wake up in the morning and go, ah, yes, it's time to get up. Right. I'm you know, I woke up again. Most of us, hey, let's be honest, we're like, when that alarm goes off, snooze, I hit it three times every morning, at least. You know, I never rarely do I wake up like yes. Like, and you gotta wonder sometimes at the end of me, just getting at you right from the beginning of the day, like instead of just waking up and ready to get at it, and you just wake up like, oh man, another day, another day, ten more minutes. You know, you don't feel it's hard to feel the blessing in it.
SPEAKER_01:He is the thief of our time. So if he can keep us in bed, there 20 more minutes, so we don't have a few extra minutes to spend with God, he's gonna do it.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, yeah. Yep. So yeah, so sometimes our attitudes right out of the gate is is geared towards, you know, we're not looking at the blessing that we have or the life that we have and then blessed with another day. We're thinking, is it just Friday yet? Right. Two more days. Two more days. Yeah, we did and and I always think that's the thing I always think about is don't wish your life away. Like every Monday you can't wait till Friday.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah. It's like you have to live wishing your life away.
SPEAKER_00:You just turn around and it's Friday. Yeah.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:I mean, really.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:And before you turn around, five years is gone, and you're like, where did those five years go? Well, you I'll tell you where it went. Wishing it was Friday. Yep. You know, it just it just and but that's human nature, I guess, and the devil can play off of that, you know. We just we don't realize how blessed we are at times. Yeah. And and we're even aware, we're Christians, we're we're aware of the blessings that we have, and and we're still guilty of it. Oh, yeah. Yep. So I always think about the people that I'm like, how how in the world do you go every single day without God?
SPEAKER_02:Mm-hmm.
SPEAKER_00:How do these people do it? Because it's hard enough.
SPEAKER_02:Well, they just do it in misery, you know. They don't Perhaps.
SPEAKER_00:But it's just like, how do you have the strength to to yeah to do to do the things you need to do and just have any type of peace of mind and and then how much how much you know weaker are you and susceptible to what Satan can do to you? And it's just like I just don't know how people just get through one day without looking to God and saying, Hey, I can use I could use your help. Right. Just I could use a blessing here, a blessing there. But apparently, as we're what we're talking about here is like, yeah, a lot of people can do that.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:And it's just like I said, I truly think that it starts out as a culture, as it starts out as something that seems fun, seems the end, and then before you know it, it's it's your life. And it causes you to never look in the other direction, yeah towards God. Right. And that's I think that's Satan's big trick is he's gonna do whatever he can so you don't look in God's direction.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah. Shine! Yeah, look what I have.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, you know, I mean for us Christians, you know, we're all we always fall short of the glory of God every single day, but we know that we do when we're doing that.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:And we know to take it to God and have those conversations. And but these people, they don't even know. They don't they have no idea. And that's that's the worst part. It's like they're gonna get, as Beth said, they're gonna get to the end of their life, and it's gonna be that last day for them. They're just gonna wake up in that torment.
SPEAKER_01:Do you think as Christians we fail because we when you're talking to people, you want to talk to them about Christ's love. We don't really throw out what hell is like and what it could be because I don't know, you want you don't want to be a good one.
SPEAKER_02:It's a scary place, it's a scary slit.
SPEAKER_00:Yes, yeah, yes.
SPEAKER_01:And they take offense to it. Yeah, yeah. So as Christians, should we be talking more about that? And I I don't know.
SPEAKER_06:I think if if they ask.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah. I think I feel like a lot of like I think maybe relationships that you let's just say work relationships that you're trying like you're trying to win this person over, per se. You know, maybe that could be a time where you can, but like if it's just a small, you know, I don't know, there's just little things in life where you barely talk to this one person, but you want to show Jesus, or you want sometimes it's one-liners like saying, like, hey, if I if I were to pray for you, what would you want me to pray? You know, something like that. But I think if it was in that circumstance, I don't know how many, like how I could get creative in bringing up hell. Whereas if I had a relationship, like a work relationship that I knew someone for a few years, or like a mutual friend, I feel like that might be more prone because I feel like they'll have more questions for me, and like I think that could be a way that they could, you know, because bring it up.
SPEAKER_06:They they they know they know your lifestyle.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, yeah, like they know what I follow. Yeah.
SPEAKER_06:Yeah, and they would have questions for actually.
SPEAKER_02:I had someone ask me, she went to church growing up and like she doesn't go anymore, but she was kind of like asking me if I think we're in the end times right now. And I'm like, well, you know, I don't no man will know that time, and you know, but it was kind of nice, and I think she knew to have that conversation because she knows what kind of person I am. Right. So it was just nice to have that conversation. Yeah, people know.
SPEAKER_00:I I I think people can see yeah, oh yeah, see it on on you and and know that yeah, that you're you're available to talk about those times type of things. I think so. But I've had that happen, and yeah, you just yeah, people people can see it.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, and I was thinking that the other day about my coworker, because you know, she there's certain things where she could get very frustrated and worked up about like, you know, typically I'm supposed to give her like two weeks to make something like a retainer or something. Well, we only did like seven days, which really that's like two work days for her because it's Tuesday, Friday that we work, and then she's in Millersburg another day, but she doesn't even work that day, so she really has like two days to get that one thing done, but she also has a ton of other things that need done. And I'm like, hey, you know, this appointment was made clear back in September before I knew I should give you a little more time than you know, I didn't know. And she's like, Oh no, it's fine. Like you, but if it if it would have been someone else, like the world would have been crumbling down, I'm sure, you know. But just show like she just shows Jesus. She's like, nope, we'll it's fine, we'll get it done, you know. But I'm thinking, if that was someone that wasn't a follower believer, I just feel like it would have gone a lot different. Oh yeah.
SPEAKER_06:Went clear sideways, yeah.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_00:You know, with with uh I'll give you an update on you know the totes I lost out of the back truck. Well, so in the end, yeah, the the girl at the Home Depot Maslin, she's like, it's a special item. If I had lids, I'd just give them to you. She says, but I can't do that because I don't have them. She says, so what you can do is just bring in the eight totes without the lids. We'll return them for you know full credit, and then you can order eight more and they'll come with the lids and you'll be squared away. And I just told her how much I appreciate it. And I told her, I said, you know, I had a problem with an item last year, and you people were real good about fixing it, fixed it right away. I said, You guys just have great customer service. Well, I go in to return, return them and maslin on Saturday, and I get up to the to the customer service desk, and there's this guy in a suit and tie, you know, just looks real spiffy. Just, you know, you would think would be well put together individual. And something happened with his order. He either wasn't going to get it that day or it didn't show up at the house, but he was just laying into these girls. Almost the one was almost in the point of tears. And he's just screaming at them and saying, I got a contractor coming here at two o'clock. And they're like, I know, I know. And we're, you know, just give us a few minutes. And he's like, You better get it, you better get it. You know, I just kept hammering him. And so I kind of like looked at one of the girls. I was just like, you know, and I said, You girls are doing a great job. I said, I just want to let you know. I said, You you didn't have to take care of me the way that you did. I said, you know, I wrote the this was a very expensive item. Yeah. I said, you know, and you guys just did what you did for me, replaced, replaced him for me, gave him the credit. I said, You guys have you guys are doing a great job. He said, You have great customer service. I said, Don't pay attention to that guy. Just just try to let it rush it under the rug, even though it's hard. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And he's he was as I was staying saying this to the girl, he was still going on about it. And it's just like, yeah, I mean, you just you have people that again, if you would have looked at the guy, you would have thought, wow, he's a pretty intelligent individual. Like he's got it together. He should have some form of. And apparently the guy, you know, I guess it's in the moments where I'm thinking, okay, that person right there. He felt entitled. Felt entitled, or Christ isn't even like Yeah. You know, and at the forefront and anywhere. And I get it, you can lose your temper. I get it, things happen and nobody's perfect. But just the way he kept going on about it, I thought, I'd really just like to go over there and just say something.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, like they get it.
SPEAKER_00:Like, yeah, you know, just forget it.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah. You know, just especially for how long it went on for I'm sure you to be like, okay, I really feel urged to say something because he's going off. Yeah. And then you're saying something and he's still going off. Like, I'm sure, yeah, he just wouldn't stop.
SPEAKER_00:But I was just like, I just I just felt the need to tell him, like, yeah, you know, you're doing a great job. Just, you know, it'll be okay. Yeah. So yeah, so it's tough. But again, it's you never people I don't know. Sometimes it's hard to understand spiritually how somebody can operate in their life's day-to-day without trying to use some form of uh Jesus' exan his example and how you should handle situations, how you should treat people. And because I'm thinking, like, dude, I'm like, I'm sure whoever this contractor is, he's not gonna like fly off the handle and say, I'm quitting this job and I'm never coming back. And I'm sure most likely he would have been like, that's okay, we'll just reschedule it for you know, exactly next week, or just let me know.
SPEAKER_02:He probably would have been happy to have like a short day like that, like a surprise short day.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, and I get it, maybe the wife's hammering him. Like she's got the expectation, so he has to go in there and lay it on them in order to make the wife happy. I don't know.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_00:But I just I just know when I when I called was my problem, I was just like, I'm just gonna be completely honest with you. I'm the dummy here that you know thought I had it handled and this happened, and I really need your help because I don't know what I'm gonna do. Yeah. I'm really, you know, and they were just like, oh, just you know, didn't didn't even think twice about it. And I thought that that's a blessing. Yeah. Oh, yeah. But some people would probably just tell you, well, I'm I don't know what to tell you. Yeah, kickbox. You know, you you picked them up, you drove away with them.
SPEAKER_02:Yep. It is once it's out of our hands, yeah.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, then it's so yeah. So I just look at that as that that's a blessing that I know God is taking care of me. As I told you, because that was a bad situation. Like I was I was losing it out there on the road. And but he took care of me. He took care of it all. And my wife's like, Really? They're really gonna take them back, they're really gonna give you. Are you sure? And I'm like, that's what they said, until the very end when I got that receipt, you know. There was doubts like that they were actually going to do it. And I'm like, Well, it's right here. I got the receipt.
SPEAKER_02:Well, especially because you you talk to one person and then you get there and you're like, so and so. No, they left for the danger. No, here we go.
SPEAKER_00:They don't work here anymore.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_00:Jackie, who's Jackie? I never heard of her, you know. She's oh yeah, she lost her job yesterday because she's giving away free merchandise. Yeah. Yeah. It was just like she's like, Are you sure?
SPEAKER_02:I'm like, tell me. We better go up now.
SPEAKER_00:So it all worked out good. But yeah, sometimes it is all about how you treat people or talk to people like you're saying and handle a situation and show your you know, yeah, show your Christianity towards people. They can see that, and sometimes, yeah, people might be more willing to help you out.
SPEAKER_02:And well, speaking of talking to people, like if someone were to say, and this is this is hard. You you might have to think about it. Well, just leave me be, like, let me go to hell. Like, I've never had someone say that to me, but like because you know, like we're obviously told to make disciples, and like just just which all we can do is pray for them.
SPEAKER_06:Yeah, at that point, yeah, pray harder for them.
SPEAKER_02:But but would you just like listen, acknowledge it, and then walk away, or would you respond with anything? You know what I mean? Because I would want I think my flesh would want to respond right away, but I'm like old.
SPEAKER_06:But but there again, that's that's that's where you where you have to have to engage your brain before your mouth because you know a tongue will kill you.
SPEAKER_02:You know, I am frozen. I'm cold today.
SPEAKER_00:I'm hot right now.
SPEAKER_02:What do you think, Nick?
SPEAKER_00:So you're saying if somebody says leave me alone, you you feel if somebody I'm sorry, I was leaning back. So you're saying if somebody says to you leave me alone, that's my business if I'm going to hell. You feel like your flesh wants to say something to them?
SPEAKER_02:I don't know. Maybe it doesn't. I've never had someone say that to me, but I'm just wondering if if someone were to ever say that.
SPEAKER_00:You would feel like you would have to.
SPEAKER_01:And and it is I don't think it's your flesh. No, it wouldn't be flesh. It would be the spirit within you. Yeah. And you're crushed because you know, you know what what they're going through.
SPEAKER_02:Right. Right. And you want to save them from that. And I think that's part of it too.
SPEAKER_00:Like Yeah, I mean, because sometimes people think you're judging them by saying that instead of instead of you saying, I want to help you.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:You know, they just take offensive.
SPEAKER_02:And I think that's the main thing. Like, I don't think they realize why we're talking about it. Because what do you know?
SPEAKER_00:You haven't been in their shoes.
SPEAKER_02:Mm-hmm. Yeah, it's like they're they have a purpose, like they have a a drive behind why they're saying, just let me go to hell. Like it's because you are offended that I'm trying to like help you, but you don't think I'm trying to help you. You think I'm like judging you and pushing my religion on you.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:Which is not true whatsoever.
SPEAKER_00:And that's a big thing.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:Is again, we'll we'll listen to Highway Hell on the Radio, turn it up full blast, and we'll accept it with no questions asked. But the word of God, wait a minute. You can't just play the you can't just start playing it on the radio. You just can't start coming in here talking about that. That's that's like, whoa, back up. And uh but that's our society. That's yeah, unfortunately, that's how it's that's how it's become. So yeah, and and again, that's another one of great deceivers' tricks, is that all all his things will be easily accepted. Where the word of God itself, there's always pushback. There's always pushback in the flesh, you know, in the world. You know, people always it's it's just like right now, like, oh, can we have can we talk about religion in school? Can we not talk about religion in school? Can we have a special uh church group for young teenagers in school or can we not do it? What what can we do what we can't do? And there's there's this question, this this you know, confrontation about it, and it's like, why? Yeah, but that's where we are.
SPEAKER_05:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:But we can bring all these other things into school, no questions asked, and we're all supposed to accept it.
SPEAKER_02:Exactly.
SPEAKER_00:So it's it's just for some reason, you know, Satan is able to work it to his advantage to have all these things not only easily accepted, not only bring it into school, like require them to take this subject every single year, yeah.
SPEAKER_02:You know, like science, you know, like they teach the Big Bang Theory and all, and I will say most science teachers that are, you know, in that field are kind of more non-believers, but I do know a couple that are believers, you know. But you know, a lot of the non-believers are probably trying to push, especially professors, you know, trying to push their agenda on because you know, if not, then you're just stupid. And why would you fall for that?
SPEAKER_00:Like, yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. It's very, you know, that's unfortunately, I don't know. It's I don't know how I don't know how as Christians we can change that. Because right now, yeah, right now we are seeing a rise, you know, we're on fire right now after the post-Charlie Kirk and all those things, but it's gonna cool off. It's gonna cool off eventually. And then where will we be? How many of those people that were on fire about it are gonna stay at that level? You know, and sure, we might we might get a good many people that that was their opportunity to find Jesus, but a lot of people might just get caught up in it and then slowly just go back to you know, life before that. But it'll be interesting to see. But there's still just a lot of things that as Christians, it's it's not it's not easy to share the word. There's all like I said, there's always pushback all the time.
SPEAKER_02:All the time.
SPEAKER_00:And that's one of our biggest hurdles, like you say. Like, when do you say something to somebody? You know, I don't know. I mean, most of the time for me, uh the way I kind of like to do it is I just like to when things are if we're having a good day at work, and honestly, I just like to slip it in there.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, like little Easter eggs.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, little Easter eggs where I'll be like, God has blessed us today, or you know, God's been good to us today, or just things like that. Rather than like preaching to people, yes, it's just whatever whatever's happening for the good, then I just like to give the give it to him. And then if people just want to look at me like, well, that's kind of a weird thing to say, then they do. Or they can be like, Yeah, that's you know.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_00:Maybe it is, maybe, you know.
SPEAKER_02:Maybe there is something more into it. Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:And if you get and then, as you said, hopefully people can see that in you, and the way that you handle things, and that you do have leadership, they can see that in you, and then when you speak things like that, then maybe the light bulb will go on, like, yeah, I kind of want to do it the way he's doing it, the way she's doing it. Yeah, as opposed to just coming in here every day just being frustrated and looking for answers.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:So that that's the way I like to do it. And then I have had people because afterwards I think people do know, and then they'll come to you and ask you questions, right? You know, and then you then you once once somebody opens up and starts asking questions, and I feel like you can say whatever you want to say. Yeah, you you can, you know, um go as far with it as you want to. But sometimes it's just getting that opening that yeah. That's to start talking about it. Yeah, I like that. That's difficult.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:Because you never know where people are.
SPEAKER_02:Right.
SPEAKER_00:You know, and and their spirituality or what they believe in, what they don't believe in. Yeah, it's very hard to know. So sometimes you just kind of like I said, throw them little Easter eggs out and kind of see what you get in return.
SPEAKER_02:Test the waters.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. And I feel sometimes that works better for me than anything.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah. Yeah, because I mean I don't want to push my religion on to them so hard that they run away.
SPEAKER_00:Now, like sometimes it can a person like it the the it could be very obvious. Like, I had a kid that works at the shop and he was wearing this black t-shirt and it says choose death. And it can it kind of makes me laugh, and I'm just like, what's all this choose death stuff? Yeah, like what do you actually like? Because I'm like, he's got a girlfriend, he's he's got a daughter, he loves his daughter, always worried about her. And that's what I'm saying. Like sometimes the culture part of it, yeah, you're like, man, this guy's logically, like, yeah. Yeah, like it doesn't match up all right. Right. So sometimes it's like, what in what is with this? Well, it's a band. And like I said, well, it's a band. I'm like, okay. But like and what about the band?
SPEAKER_04:You know, and then sometimes they just, well, you know, it's just, you know, it's a good band.
SPEAKER_02:It's cool. It's just a saying that they say that you're now representing all you go.
SPEAKER_00:So sometimes, like I said, it's it's cool to have this image to wear these clothes that say things like that. And it's like, but you wouldn't choose death. It's like, you're one of the nicest guys I know, and I know how much you care for your daughter, and all this. It's like, why why in the heck would you wear a shirt that says choose death? Yeah, yeah. Because a band says so? Just you know, yeah.
SPEAKER_02:So it it's it's hard to figure, especially young people out, but um I will say on my way here, I heard I was listening to a podcast, Sadie Robertson, the Duck Dynasty like granddaughter. She had the guy who invented the Bible app on and was like talking about their story and stuff, and because it was like, I don't know, originated in 2006. So that was like before any of the apps were even a thing. So he didn't even realize that he was gonna make it an app. But all to say, they were talking about how it's really skyrocketed recently, and they're like, you know, I guess Gen Z is so on fire right now and for it because there's so much stuff out there right now with like chat GPT and AI that they don't know what is real. Like they yes, there's been things like that around, but like it's never been this hard to distinguish. Whereas with the word, you know it's real.
SPEAKER_00:Right.
SPEAKER_02:And you know, you know what I mean? I'm like, wow, I never thought of it that way. So I mean, hopefully, you know, hopefully it's not just a phase and stuff, but I don't know. I thought that was interesting. I'm like, oh yeah, I can I can kind of see that. But I'm sure there will be some that kind of trail off, you know. Yeah. Unfortunately.
SPEAKER_00:Yep. Well, you know, it's just I I think it's because I'll watch a lot of old, you know, Billy Graham, you know, stuff, and you can see how intently a lot of the young people are watching him and listening. You know, and how many people he was the guy was filling stadiums at one point. But he didn't do that forever. And yeah, you wonder about those people in that in that time. Like, okay, so how many people went to hear Billy Graham speak? Might have been the first time they ever heard him speak. Maybe it changed their life completely.
SPEAKER_03:Right.
SPEAKER_00:Maybe he didn't phase him at all.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:Maybe it got him for a while, and then they just kind of cooled off and forgot all about it and moved on to other things. So it's interesting. Yeah. You know, there is always kind of a rise and fall. But culturally, it's always out there. You know, the the like I said, the bumper sticker mentality. It's always it's always out there. And you know, there's plenty of other bumper stickers that say things that you know you can't repeat on the air.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:That's like, geez, you're just really out just out to offend anybody that gets behind you. You know, it's just and that's and that's the way some some people like to live that way. Some people just some people find joy in offending people. Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah. And I mean, we were saying go ahead.
SPEAKER_00:At their own peril.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah. Yeah. I was gonna say we were saying like the whole party thing, like it's not going to be a party, you know? Yeah. But even if it was, let's just say it was, which we know in the back of our mind it's not going to. But if someone is possibly listening to this and like, nah, it's gonna be a party. Okay, well, clearly it's going to be full of sin, which just leads to, you know, relationship issues, anger, like distress, all these things that nobody wants to deal with, and like you're going to be dealing with that for eternity because yeah, you're in hell and you want to be living like that. Like addictions, you know, like that's still gonna be around. Like I mean, the worst of the worst.
SPEAKER_00:Okay, be honest with yourself. How's your life?
SPEAKER_03:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:You know, how's your life right now? Are you happy? Are you content? You know, are you healthy? All of those things. I think most people, if they were being honest, would be like, no, I'm not happy. I'm not, I don't feel healthy. And yeah, you know, I don't I don't have any, like I said, I don't have any purpose or direction. I'm always searching. Yeah. So it's hard, it's hard to understand that. But again, I I I really like I said, culture, culture, culture. I just we've built it up, you know, some people just build it up in their mind that like I say it's gonna be a huge stadium filled with people and all the best bands and all the best people and all the best beer and all the best cigarettes, and you know, they think it's just gonna be, you know. Oh well, like you said, oh well. Yeah, you know, uh that's my business. You know, if I'm going to hell, I'm I think Jerry Lee Lewis said one time, if I'm going to hell, I'm going to hell to play the piano. Well, they're not gonna have pianos. So it was just like uh any joy?
SPEAKER_02:If that brings you joy, no.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_05:Um it's true.
SPEAKER_01:So when I think of hell, I think of my worst emotional, painful thing in my life that ever happened to me. Ten times. And happen to live that, relive that over and over and over and over again. Every day, there's no end to it. You're you're just constantly reliving that over and over and over again.
SPEAKER_06:Like Groundhog Day.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, yeah, exactly. Yeah, and I mean, I read something, actually, it was in my Bible. It was in one of my footnotes because it's like a study Bible like Nick's, but it said, you know, that hell is going to be like worse than cancer. Like if think about that, like you see cancer running rampant right now, and it's like, and it's terrible for everyone involved. And it's like it's going to be like Yeah, it just doesn't affect the person.
SPEAKER_00:Ten times worse than that. I know that first hand, just don't affect the person that's ill.
SPEAKER_01:Right, right.
SPEAKER_02:No.
SPEAKER_01:It affects everybody, the family, everybody, you know.
SPEAKER_00:So yeah, like which, as we talked about, that's what sin does. Yes. A lot of times you think it's only going to affect you. Well, ten times out of ten, it affects somebody else, even if even if you don't think it's wanted and how harmless you think it's gonna be, it yeah, it tends to affect somebody else down the line somewhere.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, well, and then how those sins turn into generational curses. Yep. Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:Yep.
SPEAKER_02:Yep. And then you gotta have someone strong enough to put their foot down and say, I'm not doing this because I suffered when I was a kid, so I'm not letting my son do that. You know, or vice versa. Yeah.
unknown:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:If there's one thing I could change about Christianity and the church and just the whole how people view all that, it's just I wish more people could view it and look at it as a strength. I wish they could look at Jesus as a strength. As as being, you know, all that like I said, all the images that you have of the devil and all that stuff. It's like I want people to look at Jesus with a sense of like you know, like, wow. Like just with all, like, you know, this this is something that this Christianity is something that strong men do. You know, that's what strong men take up. Yeah. When you're taking up your armor of God, you know, you're taking up the full armor of God because you want to be strong, you want to be in the light, you want, you want to be, you know, uh useful, you want to have purpose. You know, it's not something that we all go do because we're soft and we, you know, we we you know, we we just we don't like to have fun or you know, we're just I want it to be I want young people to be like, no, this, you know, Jesus is strength.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:That's the one thing I wish perception could change about the way people look at it from the outside. Yes. Is that you know you're not coming to something that is gonna, you know, be because you're weak or because you know you're you're done having you you've had your fun in life, it's over, and and now you're gonna, you know, come to church three times a week and you're gonna dress different and you're gonna comb your hair for a change and you know, and and you know, things like that. I because I think that is the perception. People don't understand why we do what we do, why we believe what we believe. Because they don't they don't see it as being they don't see it as being powerful, as being, you know, something that can give you strength. And to me, that's uh I don't know. How do you get around? How do you change how do you change? Because because we We know the church in itself, you know, there's because we do that's the thing, we do have the Bible, the word to follow. Like we have to be in the word every single day. So for a lot of people, that's just too that's too much work. That's you're just asking way too much.
SPEAKER_02:So are you asking us as a topic? Like how as a topic idea, how do we change that?
SPEAKER_00:How do you change that perception? So young people or even just people in general. In general, somebody that's you know, they'll be like, Yep, time to, you know, there's always these people like, well, it's time to get more ink. Better go get more ink, and they want to put another tattoo on their body, and it could be like a cross with in flames, or it could be a demon, or it could be uh, you know, a pentagram, it could be any, you know, just anything. And they're like, they're so willing to do to do things like that, but they have no will or desire whatever to to come to the Lord. And and I just think it's because they did the perception of it is not one of strength.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:That's just yeah, like I don't want to say like, how do we make Jesus cool? Like, how do you make how do you make him like for young people to be like, how do you make them want to desire or just change the perspective?
SPEAKER_02:Because I mean, let's be honest, mostly the world's perspective of Christianity is okay, yeah, it's just something I have to do, or it's something, you know, that they're telling me to do, or you know, like they're not looking at it as well for us. You know what I'm saying?
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_00:You know, Jesus' freedom, yeah. But they're not looking at it that way. They look at it as, oh, it's gonna be prison. Yeah, I'm allowed to be, yeah, now I have to do everything a certain way, and I get told what to do, and I gotta give up all these things I used to do, and you know, and they just yeah. Yeah. Or just it's one of those things. You you look at a young person, and I'm sure, you know, if you're a young person that does love God, that does want to have a relationship with God, talk about God, the other kids kind of look at them like there's something wrong with you. And how do you change that?
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. Because they look at as Christians as being weak, you know, that we have to de you know depend on somebody else. Right. You know, this being that they don't know or don't trust. And if they only knew how when they're out there in the world, we Satan's knocking at our door continually. Yep. Yep.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:And we have to be strong. We have to be have that relationship with Jesus Christ. We have to be in the Word, we have to have that, you know, guidance and the relationship with other Christians, and so we can keep going every day. Yes.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:But most of them don't even give it the time of day to even think, first off, to even listen to us say that one sentence, you know, like, hey, it that it's actually pretty hard whenever I drop everything and follow him, because now Satan's like, oh, wait a minute, I gotta get this person back. Like we're losing one. Come on, let's go.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, like rally the troops. Yeah, there's a new TikTok, new new on YouTube. And we were all kids, you know. We kids are kids. You know, there's plenty that keeps you know, children definitely aren't idle. You know, there's always something grabbing a child's attention, and you know, and it was no different with me or but I guess I'm talking about that level of when you're you're reaching that level of maturity when you're actually gonna go out into the world and do it for yourself. You know, if you if you don't have that as part of your plan, yeah. I I I just don't know how you I don't know how they're gonna do it. Because I don't know how I would have done it.
SPEAKER_02:Well, they're gonna fall into sin and destruction and then probably be harder to, you know, get back or get altogether, I guess.
SPEAKER_00:You know, it's so easy to say I would have changed this in my life, changed that in my life. There's plenty of things that have happened in my life I wish would have never happened. But then again, I think about okay, yeah, but all those things, for whatever reason, when I'm 13, I'm opening up a Bible. And I see it now more now that Maggie's 14, I see how amazing it was. Yeah, like because now I see how young I was.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_00:Because I felt old older at 13, 14 years old than you know, at the time I felt older. But now that I see Maggie just being a teenager, being 14, I realized, wow, I was really young. And to it's amazing that you know I was either given that opportunity or gave myself that opportunity to open to already be reading the Bible at that age and wanting to do it, even if I didn't really understand at all, just the fact that I was doing it, just I I was looking in that direction. Well, I mean to me now it is is an amazing thing.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah. I mean, like if you were speaking about Maggie, and maybe you weren't, but you know, would it be, you know, a question and answer type of thing? Like, does she have questions and are we able to answer them? And like, you know, even even if it was bring her in here, I'm like, hey, we just want to talk to hey, Maggie, like we want to talk with you in the podcast, someone your age, like you want to sit down, like any just like talk about Jesus, talk like maybe that'll help her. I I don't know.
SPEAKER_00:Well, you know, it's just well, it's it's boring.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:Again, that's another thing. It's like to kids, it's a lot of times it's boring. It's another form of history, which most kids hate history. So it's just it's like I said, it it's how how do you keep a young person's attention and their you know, eyes in that direction instead of YouTube, TikTok, Instagram, Facebook?
SPEAKER_03:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:You know, it it's almost impossible to to do that. Like, you know, like I said, I thought it was pretty amazing when I was 13. Yeah. There wasn't none of that around then.
SPEAKER_02:Right.
SPEAKER_00:So now I uh I know it's even harder.
SPEAKER_01:But I believe truly in my heart, when you were at that at 13, God was preparing you for what was forthcoming.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, I mean, there really is no other answer for that. It m it must have been. And I but I was able to see like the uh the strength in it. Like I never looked at Jesus like he's for old people, or I I really saw I could I could see it. You know, what he was at at that age. At that age. And then of course, yeah, even if like you read Revelation and you read those passages and you think, yeah, he's got all the strength. Like in the end, like he's right. You know, you can, you know, it's very descriptive about uh you know what he's gonna do, and his angels are gonna do all those things, and it's like, yeah, he's yeah, he's nobody to mess with. You know, it's like most kids maybe like, oh, it's just a dude with a beard and white robe and sandals. You know, but I was able to like see through that to see like the God, like the Jesus that was on fire that was gonna and to me it was like, yeah, I you know, that's pretty clear to me. But maybe, you know, that's perhaps a rare thing. But again, that's just what I wish more people would see, be able to get that perception of of w who he truly is up against Satan, you know, and the power that he has, you know, that he's gonna go back into hell and take the keys, yep, you know, himself. You know, you can see all those things, you can visualize those things, but be able to get kids to do that, like I said, how do we do that? I think that's one of the biggest hurdles in the culture that we have, and it's just getting worse by the year with you know social media, that the distractions are just getting bigger and bigger. And, you know, I don't know. It's just like I said, it used to be you didn't have that distraction. A family was a very close unit, and y'all you you were all together at night, and a lot of times the only thing you had to do was everybody's gonna read a passage from the Bible. So it kept families close to God. Now, like, you know, most of the time I think you know, everybody's confined to their own space. Yeah. You know, everybody's on their phone in in a different corner of the house doing their own thing.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_00:You know.
SPEAKER_02:Actually, that's called a thing, like was it living room parents or living room child, or live I can't remember what it was, or like were you a living room child or a bedroom child, you know, and yeah, I don't I've been seeing that randomly, but it's like clearly if you were a living room family, like you guys were happier, and you probably still are happier than any other family.
SPEAKER_00:You actually have memories, right?
SPEAKER_01:Right, right.
SPEAKER_00:Things to talk about.
SPEAKER_01:I was a living room child because I was remote control. Yep, yep. Channel three. Yeah, turn that up to channel eight. I think you got seven, eight, and five or something. Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. Right.
SPEAKER_05:I don't know.
SPEAKER_00:But yep, hell is that's the thing. Hell is real. It's not it's not a Tom and Jerry cartoon. And everything's you know Wiley Coyote. Yeah, yeah, you know, that's just I don't know. I've never I've never personally thought that um using that approach to really be like hell is real and I I don't know if that's like the right way. Because you'll see the billboards. Right. You'll see hell is real and you know, and all these things. I'm like, I don't really know if that's the way to do it. The right approach. I don't know.
SPEAKER_01:Maybe you shouldn't start there showing Jesus' love. Yeah. Because really, how much love are there a lot of these people getting in this world right now? Yeah. Yeah, especially now. Yeah. You know, we ha we have to show his love. Yeah. And once then, maybe once you draw them in and they're interested and wanting to learn, share what can happen.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. Yeah, I don't think you should ever take the approach of s making somebody fear not making that decision. You know what I mean?
SPEAKER_02:All right, I I need to bring something up then. Did was anyone familiar with Hellstop? Yes. Yes, did you go to Hellstop? I believe so with the wrecked car and all that. Yes. So it was like typically around this time of year, right? Because it was like bonfire time, and they would I can still remember clear as day, and maybe that's like some trauma in me. I don't I don't I don't know. But the one kid, he was, I was probably so he was probably 10 or 11, and he was always a hell yeah, and mind you, he was the pastor's son. But they, you know, we're walking in like a group of 10 of us, and they chose him to be the one that was like, hey, we're gonna like what was it, 45 minutes that you walked through this whole yeah, it was long. And at the very end was when they did the car, right? But it was like saying they chose him to say to either stay back with his friends or party or something, and he went and partied and drunk driving, I believe, and then it just basically took you through what happened, like at the scene, and then uh towards the end, it was almost like hell, wasn't it? Like, this is what will happen if you don't, you know, see you, I don't know, have a relationship with Jesus, you know, just come to Jesus moment. And yeah, I was like, oh my gosh, that was the first thing I thought of whenever I was thinking about this topic. I don't know why, but I mean it was it was traumatizing, but at the same time, I mean, you I I took some friends with me, like I think I took four friends from the volleyball team, and I'm like, well, maybe that maybe that stuck with them. I don't know. But did you go to one? I think it was south, down south, like Caymanville. I mean Gainesville.
SPEAKER_01:Because I think I we went when I went, uh Driving I went as chaperones okay at the youth group. Yeah, and yeah.
SPEAKER_06:We went we went to a couple of them Judgment House. We went to Judgment House up in Manor.
SPEAKER_02:Okay.
SPEAKER_06:Well, it wasn't Manor. Where was that at? It was up north.
SPEAKER_02:Like Mansfield or something?
SPEAKER_06:No, no, I don't know, it wasn't Mansfield. But it was a it was a huge, huge jerk church.
SPEAKER_02:Really?
SPEAKER_06:And they had the I think their last scene was the uh the drunk driver with the with the wrecked car.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah. I mean it was well and then they had us like carrying the casket too. Like we had to carry a casket. It was it was intense.
SPEAKER_01:It was it was it was and there was many a knees dropped. Uh-huh. Just pray that it did touch them to want to make changes.
SPEAKER_02:So I'm wrong. I don't know. Your little fears. I don't know though.
SPEAKER_01:Well, but did they follow through, you know, that's the thing. Right.
SPEAKER_02:And like, did you know because I I was just listening to a podcast, I think it was the cult. It's the sounds like a cult. It's the lighthearted typically it's lighthearted, you know, cults, quote unquote cults that like, oh, cult of Peloton or the cult or Adidas, all these things. And this one was about Christian music and they mentioned hell stop and stuff, and was kind of just saying that it was almost like pushed them away further. I don't know. I I that was them two saying that, so I don't know. I was like, once they started talking about that, and then I was like, okay, I'm done with this episode. Because I'm like, okay, yeah, the cult of Christian music. Because they were saying how it's on the uprise with there are a ton of songs that are now on the secular radio, you know.
SPEAKER_00:And well, and you have to wonder, you know, that thought crosses your mind, okay, now this is now this is profitable.
SPEAKER_02:Uh-huh.
SPEAKER_00:So, how many people are getting into this because well may perhaps they couldn't make it in rock and roll, perhaps they couldn't make it in country music. So yeah, so hey, there might be a door opening us for Christian music. It could be profitable. Let's jump in.
SPEAKER_02:Uh-huh.
SPEAKER_00:So there is a valid point. Yeah. Yeah. So to me, that's one thing that I kind of I I consider.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, I can see that.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. And I know how important it eternity is. I know it's important to all of us. It's where we end up in this life is a part of the journey of our story. But I'm always just very big on don't just come to Jesus in the last moments because you're afraid where you're going after. Yeah. Think about the life you're the gift of life that God gave you.
SPEAKER_03:Yes.
SPEAKER_00:Think of think about that. Like, if you're not following Christ, if you're not trying to live within Christian principle, how good is your life going to be without Him? Like, don't throw your life away. And there's so much life can be so enjoyable. It can be so rewarding. And you know, don't just start going to church because you're afraid of what's going to happen when you die. Yeah. Think about right now, the way you're living and how you live. And you know, the people you love and the people you work with. I mean, all those things, it's going on right now. God gave you this life to enjoy, you know, as a gift. Yep. And don't wait. Yeah. You know, don't wait till the end and worry about, you know, don't come to God just because of the the eternity of it.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:You're wasting your life. You only get one.
SPEAKER_02:Yep. And and I I think a lot of the times with those ones, I'm like, yeah, you know, like the thief on the cross, like, you know, he was promised for, you know, to be up in heaven.
SPEAKER_00:But it's like, I think like But how much more enjoyable could that thief's life had been if you'd had the word sooner?
SPEAKER_02:That and when you're up there, I can't remember what was it whenever we were talking about the crowns, maybe? And it's like, hey, this is what you did with your life, and but like this is what I wanted you to do with your life, and this is what how many people you could have saved. Like almost like rewinding all these certain situations in your life, and you're like, oh wow, you know, but since I didn't feel like doing anything till I was on my deathbed and wanting that relationship, then I didn't get to save all those people.
SPEAKER_00:You're gonna be saved from the burning building.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:But that's it. You know, you're gonna escape by the skin here.
SPEAKER_03:Yep. Yep.
SPEAKER_00:But yeah, but think about all the other crowns you could have had in this life, how many people you could have reached or the things you could have enjoyed and experienced.
SPEAKER_02:And I like to think, you know, I I like to think that maybe the people that I did form a strong bond with, or even, you know, helped come to Christ or something. Like, I like to think that maybe when we're in heaven that we have a stronger bond because of that. You know what I'm saying? I don't know, like a little guardian or something, or a little mentor. And like I didn't realize I was being that at the time because I wasn't sure if they'd be coming, but now I do know.
SPEAKER_00:Yep.
SPEAKER_02:I don't know.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, well, that's it. You could have planted that seed 20 years ago. Somebody will find this podcast 20 years from now. Who's to say? This by just some chance. This is the first one they click on, they start listening to it, and the light bulb goes on. We've done our job.
SPEAKER_05:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:You know, if that's all we ever do in this life, right? We we we've done more than you know, a lot of people could ever hope to do.
SPEAKER_02:Almost 2,500 times. Yeah, 2,500 opportunities. Yeah. Or 27 away. You you threw that in at this.
SPEAKER_00:And all four of us, we're not gonna get everything right.
SPEAKER_02:No.
SPEAKER_00:You know, no, I certainly haven't in this life, and I'm sure I'm gonna make other mistakes along the way. But in spite of myself, I'm gonna keep keep doing this, keep serving the Lord, you know, keep trying to reach other people so that so they can do the same thing, so they can have the blessings that that I've had, so I they can have the grace that I've had. That's what it's all about. But if you can just get out there and just do a little bit of work, yeah. You know, it it goes a long way. Like I said, you just you just never know who who that person's gonna be. And it might, like you said, it might mean not only their salvation of the life they have in the now, but also the salvation in eternity. Yeah. I mean, what greater work is there? So yeah, that's it's pretty cool to think about. Yeah. But having a bumper sticker on the back of your car saying, you know, got my ticket to hell is not helping anybody.
SPEAKER_02:Nope.
SPEAKER_00:You know, it's just not, yeah, that's not helping a soul out there.
SPEAKER_02:Actually, yes, it is, because that it prompted this podcast. Yeah, okay. So fair enough. That'll be Jesus' wink to you.
SPEAKER_00:If I ever see this person again, if I ever see that vehicle again, and I just happen to see them get out of their car.
SPEAKER_02:Here's the link to our podcast.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, you've inspired an episode. Please listen to it. So that would be very cool, actually. Yeah. And it's possible. Anybody. I mean, because I saw it here locally. So it's very possible. I'll see it again. Yeah. Maybe you never know.
SPEAKER_02:So keep this link in your notes on your phone just in case.
SPEAKER_00:Oh, I won't for if I see it again, I won't forget.
SPEAKER_01:You'll be able to bang the stop like, hey, hey, hey, hey.
SPEAKER_00:Because it just hit me hard the first time I seen it. Like I said, it was a big like gold movie ticket. And and I was, I just kept like, what? Like, oh. I don't know.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:Then again, not everybody gets to have uh Abraham Lincoln on a pair of socks. Fuzzies.
SPEAKER_01:Fuzzies, yeah. Fuzzy Wuzsies.
SPEAKER_00:So we can't all be wearing Abraham Lincoln socks.
SPEAKER_01:I'd seen those.
SPEAKER_00:I thought, oh, those are Nick through, and those are serious socks for not so serious people. This episode was brought to you by Foozies.
SPEAKER_02:Foosies or Fuzzies?
SPEAKER_00:Well, it's double L.
SPEAKER_01:Oh. It is Foosies.
SPEAKER_00:Fozzie. Footsies.
SPEAKER_01:Roger got hammers and saws. Yeah, mine's got hammers and saws on a fucking colour.
SPEAKER_02:Oh man. It's funny.
SPEAKER_00:All right.
SPEAKER_02:Well. Oh, whose turn is it to pray?
SPEAKER_00:I don't know.
SPEAKER_02:I think I prayed last.
SPEAKER_01:I think it's mine. Yes. Okay.
SPEAKER_06:I saw her looking at Nick. I thought she was going to try and smile.
SPEAKER_05:She's she's used to it now.
unknown:Come on.
SPEAKER_01:There we go. Dear Heavenly Father, we just thank you for this opportunity to come together, dear Father God, and discuss heaven and hell, dear Lord. And we ask that, you know, the topic that we talk tonight just reaches out to someone, dear Father God. And we ask that you just instill in each and every one of us, not just here tonight, but listening, that you let us be that light in someone's darkness, dear Lord. That you just let us be that one to share your word and share your love, dear Father God. And dear Father God, we ask that you just be with each and every one of us as we travel home tonight. That you just put a hedge of protection around us and bring us back at our next appointed time. In Jesus' name I pray. Amen.
Michael Brindley
Host
Beth Jarvis
Co-host
Dawn Reed-Enochs
Co-host
Nic Affolter
Co-host
Roger Deardorff
Co-host
Sydney Erickson
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