True Rebellion In Our Modern World

Often times when we think of the word rebel, our minds immediately conjure up images of men on motorcycles in black leather jackets, smoking cigarettes, skulls and cross bones on their arms, the song "Born To be Wild" blaring through the speakers.  We might think of the actors James Dean, Marlon Brando and Elvis Presley.  Rock stars like Jim Morrison, Judas Priest, and George Thorogood defined what it meant to be defiant in the face of what is considered moral and decent, making parents everywhere just a bit more nervous about what their children were up to.  The typical stereotype is easily recognized.  One would never look at a young man dressed in his Sunday best with bible in hand as a threat to society.  Would you?

On this week's episode of Growing Together, Nic & Dale have a really thought provoking discussion about the true rebellion in our modern world.  It is all inspired by another rock icon that fits the bill for shock value antics and rebellious ideas like "School's Out" and "Poison".  Alice Cooper is one of rock n roll's most identifiable acts.  Yet, few are aware that his relationship with Christ changed his life and is now at the center of his mission.  Cooper never holds back when it comes to speaking about the goodness of Christ and how it can change people's lives.  Cooper declares that his old life style was the trademark for rebellious living.  Drinking, destroying hotel rooms, and promoting darkness frightened parents to death, but in his opinion, that was a cakewalk compared to his walk with Christ.  

In our modern world, Christians are the true rebels. Just as in the time of Jesus, speaking up for Christian faith can get you a lot of dirty looks and plenty of defiant sneers.  Our world has flipped the script back to biblical times.  In our grandparents and parents age, being a Christian meant you were most likely in the majority of those that believed the church was the place to be; you were an insider, not an outsider.  As Christ said, if the world hates you, remember that it hated me first.  Dale reminds us that those words are just as relevant today as they were the day he said it.  If you never thought, as a Christian, you had what it takes to be rebellious, think again!  

This is an episode you will not want to skip over.  Don't be a rebel without a cause, give this episode a chance and find out what it really means to live dangerously.  Okay, this might be a little tongue in cheek, but you get what we are after here.  Our mission is to bring as many people to Christ as we can.  Don't be cruel.  Join us each and every week on the Growing Together Podcast!    

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:39

All right, ladies and gentlemen, we are back. This is the organic church. We are the Growing Together podcast. And my name is Nick Offholder, and I'm here with my good friend Dale Walker. And it's that time again. It is. We are uh we are at the midpoint of our year. Uh we did a little we took a break off from live recording last week, and uh I did something a little fun. I posted kind of as our all-star break, and it is actually right now, the all-star break in baseball. So I think the all-star game is tonight, as a matter of fact. So it was kind of our little all-star break. And uh, so I looked through you know, the last four seasons that we've been recording, and uh we found the episode that uh our most successful episode has the most downloads. So it is we regard it as our favorite episode. And it's uh when we did uh it was me and Michael and Sid, Don and Beth and Roger, I believe. That alone makes it a big group then. Um and uh we all listed our top five hymnals or you know, uh not so much Christian s Christian music, but just you know the songs that you enjoy. Yeah, hymns, um, gospel music. Um and that that episode for some reason people just love that episode. Like it has more downloads than any other by far. And uh it is a really good episode. Even I went back and listened to it again. It's very enjoyful. Um, but yeah, people just for something about that episode people really took to. And um, so I thought, well, since you know Dale and I can't get together this week, I'll just repost that as kind of a Yeah, you know, it's kind of a the all-star break. Yeah. So and it and it and it was funny because it took off again. Like it had more downloads that day that we released it than any other episode that we've done so far this year for a single day. Yeah. And I'm just like, what is it about this episode that, you know, just and I thought, is there something maybe in the AI that uh links it somewhere that people can find it easier, that just, you know, because I don't know what it is about it, but like I said, it just people take too easy.

SPEAKER_04 3:00

I wish we really had a uh a mailbox.

SPEAKER_00 3:06

I mean, people can yeah, people can message us. We we have that ability. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 3:11

Um for people to just kind of let us know stuff like that. Yeah, like what you do like and don't like about something because there's nothing wrong with us like fine-tuning what we do to make it more because we're trying to reach you. Yeah, so it's it would be really nice if you can just like let us know. Hey, I like this episode because I don't like this episode because yeah.

SPEAKER_00 3:38

Well, I know how much people enjoyed the large group, the dynamic of a large group. So do I. Uh you know, when we did the God Bless America episode, that was a lot of fun. You know, we had a big group and we were always exchanging back and forth, had a lot of laughs. Yep. Um, but we're just in a season right now where there's just not, you know, it's people, yeah. Yeah, people were just not looking to step up. You know, a lot of people are afraid of the microphone, Dale. Oh, yeah. Believe it or not. I mean, it's just us talking, you know, and that's what it is. But put a microphone in front of people's face and they're afraid to do it.

SPEAKER_04 4:11

It's just a conversation.

SPEAKER_00 4:13

So we're just in a season right now where yeah, it's just you and I most of the time, and that's fine. You know, and that's okay. Um, but uh I'm always just thinking, like, you know, because I always say, you know, we're not just podcasts, we're not looking for downloads and views, yeah, for any kind of notoriety. Um my mind is starting to turn like okay, what are some things we could do that we get a little more outreach that we could draw people in a little more? Um because I am thinking about it, and you know, it might be a conversation we need to have and uh you know, see what we can do to just kind of expand on things a little bit and see, take the next step, see what else, you know, is out there. Yeah, absolutely. Anything out there because yeah, I mean people can comment, people can send us mail. Um, you know, the whole YouTube thing. Um, there's a lot of stupid things on YouTube to get thousands of views. I just I just don't understand it. Like, and I know like ads play into all of that. Yeah. You know, this person could doing something stupid and it gets a million views, but they got the right ads, baby. You know, they got every they got everything lined up. But so, you know, and I definitely don't want to get too entangled in all that kind of thing, but it'd be interesting to see, you know, what we could do.

SPEAKER_04 5:31

Yeah, what you know what would uh the people be interested in? You know, not necessarily interested in like formatting what we do, yeah. But just kind of there's something you want us to cover. Is there, you know, is there anything like, you know, do you want us to to go dive deeper into the subjects we cover or is there, you know, or back off a little bit, you know, yeah, there's little, you know, what in what interest you got?

SPEAKER_00 6:04

Most of the podcasts that I listen to that I enjoy only have two people in it.

SPEAKER_04 6:08

Oh yeah.

SPEAKER_00 6:09

They have the host and whoever their guest is. Yeah, and it's good for time. Yeah, and I enjoy those. So I mean I get the the big group dynamic and I agree with it to a certain extent, but for me personally, it doesn't just two people talking doesn't take away from anything, and I actually really enjoy that. Um but uh but yeah.

SPEAKER_04 6:29

Um and especially when you can add people at any point and just kind of expand it for a show or two or whatever, when you can have that full dynamic, I don't see anything wrong with um having a a dynamic duo, so to speak. Yeah. And uh but I I d I just think not to not to be too long on the point that it's um I think it's just important that people understand or be able to contribute or pour into what they're listening to. It's all I've always thought it was like nice when they had like a grab bag back in the day when I was really, really young, and you'd wa we'd watch these TV shows and they would have like a grab bag, which was basically ideas that the audience had had suggested. And I I always like that kind of thing where you can see what the audience likes and get a a general view of who your audience is. Give us a sense of you guys. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 7:42

I mean, we're around the globe. Yep. So so you know, we do have those statistics that, yeah, we've reached countries that I can't even pronounce Dale. So it's awesome. Yep. You know, we have we have reached somebody out there has at least listened to us for 60 seconds.

SPEAKER_04 8:02

And and we value you guys more than more than that. We value your opinions, we value the reason that you've taken 45 minutes, an hour, sometimes two hours to hear what we have to say. So we value that. And we'd like to know, you know, what makes it worth, you know, sitting there for that time or listening to what you're listening to is like, well, I'm gonna cut the grass anyway. I might as well throw these guys on and go for it. But, you know, let us know what what motivates you and moves you that that we're doing right and what we're doing wrong, because if you let us know what we're doing wrong. Short of saying you guys talk about God too much. Nick, that's I'm sorry. That's that's why we're here. Sorry, that's that's the that's kind of the tagline. We are gonna talk about a whole lot of Jesus, that's somebody would say.

SPEAKER_00 8:55

You want to listen to people talk about other things? Yeah, you know, I I enjoy listening to people talk about other things, but yeah, yeah, well, that's why we're here. Yes, sir. Um that's the mission.

SPEAKER_04 9:07

So short of that, we we want to hear what you gotta say.

SPEAKER_00 9:10

Yeah, absolutely. Well, our topic tonight, uh, I brought this one up. Um, this was inspired by it was inspired by a Facebook post. And believe it or not, this was inspired by the rock and roll artist Alice Cooper. Oh, yeah. And I'm sure everybody around the world knows who Alice Cooper is. This guy was a major, major rock star in the early 70s and the 80s. One of the biggest. Yeah, and um if you know anything about his onstage persona, it's like a horror show. Horror. H-O-R-R-O-R. Horror show.

SPEAKER_04 9:48

And uh harder to say than you think.

SPEAKER_00 9:52

Vincent Price and people like that could say it really well. Oh, yeah. That's probably why they had the career they did. But uh so yeah, his his uh stage show was dark over the top. Uh you're talking, you know, monsters and snakes and your imagination can run wild. I'm sure you can find plenty of his performances there on YouTube. Um, so this is a guy that uh on paper or on video or on uh record that you would think uh man, this dude does not have it together. But when you know it, this guy is a true Christian. Um I've seen plenty of interviews where he he talks about you know his faith and how important it is not only him but to his family and how it has helped keep his family together. Because I think his him and his wife have been together like decades. Yeah, like a long time, which is really unheard of for you know the uh profession that he's in. Absolutely. Um, and he gives it all up to to his faith.

SPEAKER_04 10:58

Yeah, especially that one that you know uh singing or sure.

SPEAKER_00 11:04

Yeah, yeah, touring on the road all the time and rock and roll and just you know uh all the cliches that go with that.

SPEAKER_04 11:10

So yeah, I mean for him to have one wife or yeah, all the opportunities to have missteps and whatnot, and uh have one person, that's that's that in itself is impressive.

SPEAKER_00 11:23

Yeah. Um so like I said, I've listened to him talk about a lot of things, but this post really got me thinking. And it's kind of it it it's kind of you know, we had our uh God bless America 250 episode, and we had we we talked about you know accepting other people's religion, and we you know, we broke some of that stuff down, and of course we're talking about, you know, can our country truly survive, you know, without Christ, without us being a Christian nation. Um and then I read this post and it kind of just it really made me think because it's a great turn on the whole idea. Um, and I'll just read the post. I think it's a great way just to get it out there. Um, Alice Cooper has long spoken openly about his Christian faith, saying that real rebellion in today's culture is not partying, drinking, or destroying yourself. He said those things are easy, but following Jesus is the harder and more meaningful path. His quote says, drinking beer is easy, trashing hotel rooms is easy, but being a Christian, that's a tough call. That's real rebellion. Coming from a legend known for shock value and wild stage persona, the message stands out because he looks to Christ as the true counter-cultural choice. For Christians, this is a reminder that holiness is not weakness. In a world that celebrates sin as free from obeying Jesus takes courage. Real rebellion is refusing darkness, rejecting self-destruction, and choosing to follow Christ when culture tells you not to. And just the idea of the real rebellion, that's what that's the phrase that got me was that in the world we live in today, that's that's where we are. We are now facing the idea that Christ is the unpopular choice.

SPEAKER_04 13:38

Well, you have to consider that coming not just not just coming from him and considering who he's been uh viewed as through his whole entire career, but just the different types of people that are stepping up and and saying that they they follow Christ and and all of that. Um Jesus was was the first rebel because he when he came through they loved him and then they hated him.

SPEAKER_00 14:17

Then they hated him.

SPEAKER_04 14:18

And when they hated him, they hated him to the cross. Yes, and they I mean and it he said he said it in his word if the world hates you believe that they hated me first. They the manner in which he was treated that did no wrong, no harm to anyone, that his message was love thy neighbor as thyself. Follow me, pick up your pick up your cross. It was never, you know, I hate all of you. It was I love all of you. Forgive them, Father, they know what they do. It's to now be in this era and it's happening again. And it's like you can't be a Christian without getting a slap in the face. You can't you can't open, I'll say openly be Christian, because there are some people who are Christian and I'm using their quotes, and that uh believe that what they're doing is Christian, but they they can't they can't vocalize it, they can't put it in a way that would make me look at them and say, Yeah, they're a Christian.

SPEAKER_00 15:35

Yeah. There there's many people that I know personally, and I'm sure you can attest the people you know in the workplace, especially fellow males, um, that you can pretty much guess are not Christians. Oh, yeah. Right? Right? Like they're not that they're bad people, but you can pretty much say that okay, I don't think this person follows Christ. Like it's not not that they don't believe and and and let's not confuse things. There's a lot of people that believe in God or say they believe in God, they believe that there is something, but it doesn't mean that they follow Christ. There is a difference. Um there's a lot of people that love me as a person that think I'm a great guy, that think I'm a nice guy, but would not want to talk to me about Jesus.

SPEAKER_04 16:33

Oh no, that's where the topic stops. Yeah. But um he said he said in his word, and I'm always I'm always going to back back to what God says. Not everyone who says Lord, Lord, shall enter the kingdom of heaven. And my opinion, my opinion, when he says that, he is saying that not everyone who claims to believe in me, not everyone who, you know seems to pursue me will enter the kingdom of heaven. Because in other words, they're what they show you may not be who they are. You know, you you have people all the time who who present one image to you, and then you get around other people that they hang out with, and it's like, oh yeah, they were talking about you the other day like you're a dirty dog. And so not everyone has your best interest at heart. Not everyone is who you think they are in your face, and so that's what he's trying to say to us in that in my mind, in that verse, he's saying, Not every not every lamb is a lamb. Some lambs are wolf.

SPEAKER_00 17:51

Do you think he's trying to say that is is he including people who generally in their heart follow Christ, but still have weakness somewhere?

SPEAKER_04 18:17

I don't think that.

SPEAKER_00 18:19

I don't think that because um Or is he more or is he talking about people that are truly trying to be using the lamb's clothing to be deceitful?

SPEAKER_04 18:30

I that that's where I go with it. I and I may be wrong. There may be some people who are putting their whole heart into it, but um I I don't think that if you are putting your whole heart into it, that he's going to um to not not to honor that. Because also in his word he says, love me with your with all of your heart, all of your soul, and all of your mind. If you're doing that, I can't see that he's not going to honor that.

SPEAKER_00 19:05

Well, because sometimes I I see it this way, and we talked about on the last episode what people wrestle with. You know, yeah, you love Christ with all your heart, but there's this thing that you wrestle with.

SPEAKER_01 19:16

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 19:17

And and you truly do wrestle with it. Like you, I don't want to say you got it all else figured out, but me personally, I think we're all human beings. We all fall short somewhere. And if we didn't, Christ wouldn't have been here in the first place. Exactly. Like he wouldn't have been in here in the first place. And no, that is not a license to say, well, you know, he died for my sins, so I gotta get a couple. I gotta get a couple in. I'm not saying that. All I'm saying is, you know, I'm just trying to narrow down what you're what you're Yeah, the at the alley to job speaking, too. You know. There's people that, yes, love Christ with all their heart, but again, you're falling short somewhere. There's just one thing that just trips you up.

SPEAKER_04 20:06

Like you just can't with the working on. Yeah, yeah. That's why I I don't feel that that's what he's speaking to, because he says in his word, for all have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God. That's that's a forever thing. Until he comes, we will not be perfected in him.

SPEAKER_00 20:29

Well, and I always say I I serve the Lord in spite of myself. Yeah. And I need people to be like, I don't really like to be able to do that. I need put that in the wall in the house. But that's just the way I see it. Like, because as we talked in the last episode, yeah, sometimes I struggle just with my own selfishness, the things I'd rather do, but I'd rather serve the Lord. So instead of giving into being lazy, it's like, yeah, I I serve the Lord in spite of my shortcomings because I know in my that I love Christ with all my heart and and I want to serve the kingdom. So it doesn't matter if I don't care, I'm not waiting until I got it all figured out to serve the Lord. That's what I'm saying.

SPEAKER_04 21:09

Yes. Well, I I look at this, I'm I'm always looking at uh biblical examples. And uh David was in my mind sometimes a really good guy, but also at times a really bad guy.

SPEAKER_02 21:27

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 21:28

But God called him a man after my own heart, meaning that he put every and and again, this is my opinion. It's not in the word, but meaning that the way David lived his life, he tried to do what God would have him do. He was always in pursuit of God, he was always putting his, you know, putting his whole entire thought was on God, you know, wanting to do what God would have him do, slipping and falling like we all do. But God recognized that he was slipping and falling, but he also recognized that he was slipping and falling in pursuit of him. And so I feel like that's that's the way we are now.

SPEAKER_00 22:15

Yeah, and so getting back to real rebellion um and what that post had to say about that. Um we were talking on the podcast about you know respecting other people's religion and maybe there's certain things that That you shouldn't say, or there's certain things that we should go easy with. Um but maybe it's just maybe it's just age. But I'm getting to the point now in my life where I can't accept I can't accept anything less than somebody saying, no, this is a Christian country. Like I respect other people's religion, I love everybody for who they are, but I'm no longer willing to say that this country has room for multiple religious denominations. It's gotta be all or nothing. It just does. And maybe 10 years ago, I would have felt bad for saying that or uncomfortable saying that. All I'm saying is that's where I'm at now, to where that's the true rebellion for me, is saying, I get that we all want to have this idea of we all have to love each other. There has to be kindness, we have to accept everybody for who they are. I'm getting to the point where I'm like, I get it, I respect it, but I'm not willing to say anything that would reject my Christian belief. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 24:14

I won't I won't tear down God to build something else.

SPEAKER_00 24:18

I'm not going to go in that direction to make somebody feel better.

SPEAKER_04 24:21

Exactly. I'm not, I'm not going to say, you know, um you're welcome to your to religious view. And that's I'm not saying that. But as a Christian, I'm not willing to say that it's okay in in my mind to do anything other than praise God. And I'm not talking about any other God but the God I serve. I'm talking about Jesus Christ and our Lord and Savior. Yeah, I'm not. You can do what you want to do and live how you want to live, and I will love you through it. But I serve a living God, and He died to save my sin, save me from my sins. And I'm not willing to say anything else other than that. I'm not willing to say, well, that's okay. You you have your you have your whatever celebration over here. It's okay. No.

SPEAKER_00 25:27

And when I say that, I'm not saying that like I'm perfect, that I've got it all figured out. I'm not saying any of those things, not saying anything like that, nothing of the sort. But as far as my belief goes and who I believe my Lord and Savior is, there's not room for anything else.

SPEAKER_04 25:44

And there can't be.

SPEAKER_00 25:46

There just can't be.

SPEAKER_04 25:47

There can't be. If you are a Christian who is true to true to the Bible and true to God and true to your relationship, that's one thing. That's like to be true to who you are with God, with Jesus, because I won't backslide on him. I won't, I won't have this relationship where I'm talking in God's face on Sunday. I love you, Lord, I love you, Lord, and then I'm out and among the people, and like, oh, you're you're a Buddhist?

SPEAKER_03 26:22

Yeah, that's that's great. I've I've often thought about, you know.

SPEAKER_04 26:25

No, I might need to look into that and see what that could offer me. No, I uh that's and I'm not saying that you can't be doing that. I'm just saying that in my in my house, as for me and my house, yeah, we will serve the Lord.

SPEAKER_00 26:45

You know, I've been reading this book, or actually I've been listening to this audio book, and it's all about the 9-11 attacks. And there's a lot in that book about the hijackers and their religious beliefs being Muslims and everything that they were told, everything that they were offered in order to do that, in order to hijack those planes, run it into them buildings, kill themselves and all those people. You know, they're being promised all these virgins, they're being promised all of these, all of these selfish gratification that's gonna happen after, you know, they they perform this deed, you know, they're told to hate Americans, kill Americans, um, you know. So I look, I look at that, and this has been all documented. So I look at that and go, okay, to me, that's one example of why I'm glad I'm a Christian. Oh, absolutely. Because they want to kill Christians and they wanted to kill Americans, and they and they did it all in the name of these ideas that when they pass on to the next life, they're gonna have all this gratification, and that's what it's all about. And the Bible preaches just the opposite of those things. And the Bible would the Christian Bible would never tell you to go out and kill another race of people, or to seek out another race of people and murder them, or or it doesn't, it doesn't promise you all this uh selfish gratification if you do these things. So to me, I'm like that just when I when I when I was listening to that book and obviously learning about the people that were on those planes and uh learning about the hijackers, it just kind of put it in perspective for me that again, I'm glad that Jesus is my Lord and Savior.

SPEAKER_04 29:00

Like I just you know, I I just it just really put a certain perspective to it that it puts a cap on what your, you know, what your relationship with God is because it's like it's almost like I'm so glad I love you, God. Yeah, I'm so glad you love me. Yeah. I'm so glad that you wouldn't ask me to do that kind of thing. I'm so glad that I'm I'm in the the hollow of your hand rather than on some plane trying to prove a point that you are who you say you are. That you you are God all by yourself. I don't have to do that.

SPEAKER_00 29:40

You're a gr you're a God of grace and mercy and forgiveness and love and all these things. You're not you're not this God of which we can argue, yes, you know, there is a wrath, you know, God does have wrath, God, you know, but that's all for him to deal with. That's all for him to perform. He doesn't put any of that on us. Exactly. Yeah. He doesn't put any of that on us, and he doesn't want that for us.

SPEAKER_04 30:05

Well, and he even tells us, vengeance is mine.

SPEAKER_00 30:08

Yeah, you don't have to worry about pay back for me. I I got me. You don't have to stand up for me. Like you don't have to No.

SPEAKER_04 30:15

All you have to do is love me with your whole heart, go and sin no more. That's all I have to do is turn around and be the best Christian Dale I can be. To be the best, uh be the best friend, the best brother, the best, you know, whatever. And that goes that goes for anybody who's who's following after God's. He only asks for you to be the best you in service of him. You don't have to plot and plan and you know do you know, do these like yeah, make huge, horrible sacrifices in his name. You don't have to do that. Yeah, you just have to love him with your whole heart and tell others about him. And and I'm so glad that that is the God that I serve. That God that loves me through all of my faults, all of my mistakes, all of my you know, shortcomings, and there's a bunch.

SPEAKER_00 31:17

And and yet that's that's that's a God that everybody wants to run from in order to experience what they feel in their heart is true freedom, uh, as that post explains, you know, uh drinking isn't the real rebellion. You know, doing drugs isn't the real rebellion. Um, committing violence isn't the real rebellion. It's running towards a God who would not have you harm yourself, harm others. Uh but we're such we're s we have such a selfish, you know, I don't know what's the right word to use here, but human beings are just so selfish. And we love to feed feed our own gratification. And so in order to do that, we've got to the in order to do all these things, we've gotten to the point where we can run from God in order to do it. And that's that's and that's the other thing that I wanted to discuss is that's what I'm seeing now, is even even if you even if you were brought up to believe, even if even if you have these intuitions that God is real and that you know Jesus died for our sins, you can get to a point in your life where you're like, yeah, I know that, but I want to do all these other things. And so if I'm gonna do those things, then I can't mention Jesus. I have to run from that.

SPEAKER_04 32:57

Yeah, you have to you have to kind of give yourself a a waiver more or less. You're like, you know, uh yes, I love God, but I want to do this, so I'm going to sign this waiver that says that I can, you know, run out and do a few things and maybe he'll look the other way. Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 33:19

Well, it's in just an all-out rejection that I see. Um, that, you know, there can there can just be whole movements, social movements that choose to reject Christian values because it would stop their movement and their tracks. Oh, absolutely. So they're not willing to like trying to truly understand Christian principle. They're not even really trying to see how it could, you know, benefit their lives and benefit the lives of others around them. In order for their movement to keep gaining steam, they have to deny Christ, or the whole thing falls apart.

SPEAKER_04 33:58

Well, and I've said this before to uh to people, maybe not on, maybe not on air or whatever, but I find it I find it interesting that Buddha is not attacked, that Hinduism is not attacked, that all these different uh religious sects are not attacked. But for some odd reason it is important to I mean unrealistically important to people to tear down the name of Jesus Christ, to tear down what whatever he stands for is for some odd reason bad. And people put a put a great deal of importance on pushing to make you not believe in God, not to not to follow after him when I'm like in my in my head, I'm like, why? He's he's never, never, ever done something to make me say, like, why'd you make me do that, God? What was you know what was that? It never makes you question your no, it it it only uplifts me whenever whenever God has had me do something for him in the kingdom, it's all it's only always ever been uplifting. Oh, why did I do that? I did that in the name of No, it's never that way. It's always, it's always like I should have done that. It's always sooner. Yeah, it's always it's always a feeling of like thank you for that because I know I should have been on it.

SPEAKER_00 35:49

I wasn't gonna do that on my own.

SPEAKER_04 35:50

I never would have done that had it not been for you. Whatever it is, it's like, you know, I went out and talked to these kids or something, and it turned into this, you know, this club now, and all these kids are, you know, taking it on their own. I never would have, you know, things like that.

SPEAKER_00 36:08

Well, you know. The Charlie Kirk trial's going on right now. So it kinda it's kind of bringing back all those memories from almost a year ago when he was murdered. And it just brings it just brings to my mind that you had a guy like Charlie Kirk, which you don't have to agree with as politics per se. But when he would go to these campuses and he would have these conversations with these young people, and all he's trying to do is just tell them about Christ and just trying to get them to understand Christian values. And these young people just attack him because they're like, well, you know, if I want to have abortion, I should be able to have an abortion. You know, a woman's that's a woman's right to her body to do what she wants with it. And uh, you know, who are you to tell us we we can't do this? And you're trying you're trying to basically you're trying to hold back the woman, the female race by telling them these Christian principles. And then the same thing with the transgender thing, like, oh, you're trying to tell a parent that they can't tell their child that you know their son isn't really a girl and they shouldn't put these ideas in their head, and here's why. And it's just like attack, attack, attack because they feel offended because somebody is trying to tell them that that's not in line with Christian principle. That's not in line with what God would want you to do. So they do feel this level of you know like it they're being attacked.

SPEAKER_04 37:46

Yes, absolutely.

SPEAKER_00 37:47

And uh uh and it's just like and there's a lot of videos out there where you where you see this time and time again, where you know, these young people get so heated because again, they in their mind, they believe, like, okay, I should be able to go do whatever I want to do, and those choices are mine, my body is mine, my you know that that eight-year-old, that's their body. If they think that that little boy thinks he's a girl, then he should be able to do whatever he wants. And they think that is they think that is total freedom. They think there is freedom to be found in that idea that you can destroy human life or you can alter human life, and it's all for the good, it's all for the better of society. Like this is the direction we should be moving in as a society, because we all need to be kind to each other, we know we all need to understand each other, and we all need to form this human race where everybody is loved, no matter what the consequence might be. And uh so again, Jesus gets attacked because he's the one that is saying, like, no, you shouldn't be doing that. Absolutely. And he's not, but they're missing the whole point of never does he say these things because, well, because I want to I want to make sure, you know, that you're not happy. You know, I want you to be an outcast. I want you know, the Bible is very laid out about those ideas why Jesus feels you know humans should live the way they live and express the things they should express in his name. And but yet there's just this level, there's this heated level of animosity towards it because there's this we're trying to make they're trying to make us feel like rebels and because we're going against a human race. Like we're we're stopping, we're stopping progress, Dale. Sometimes that's why I think like, oh, we're we're stopping progress. We're stopping love and kindness because we don't agree these things should happen.

SPEAKER_04 40:12

Well, I I feel like a lot of times, as far as Christian goes and the way the world views us, it's um a difficult, it's a difficult situation to navigate as far as if you're the world. Because certain things have to be true if you're the world. And and if you're the world, everything has to be, everything is equal. I'm allowed to do this, you're allowed to do this. But in reality, that's not how the world feels. The world is deceiving us because when you when you do all of that, it's under the guise of everything is okay. But there is always someone who is deciding what is okay and what you know what's what's good and what's not good. And God says, you know, to love. Love thy neighbor as thyself. And if if we if we live by that, then then that that should be okay. But for some odd reason, when a Christian says, you know, love thy neighbor as thyself, oh you're you're judgmental, you're putting your biblical thoughts on me. But you're saying the same thing, but you've just twisted it. And that's that's what Satan does, and we don't, we don't realize that Satan is turning what God says and altering it so that you think that, you know, love thy neighbor means let thy neighbor, you know, mutilate themselves and, you know, or let you know, let different things occur that shouldn't occur in the Christian world and and label it as I'm being free. I'm, you know, I'm doing I'm making choices for myself when everything should be done to the glory of God. And if you're not doing it to the glory of God, I don't care what it is, if you're not doing what you do to the glory of God, then you are walking down a wrong path. Because he is the way, the truth, and the life. No man comes to the Father but through him. And that means what, and when I say I, I mean him, what I say goes. So God's a cut and dry person. God, God is this is the way it is. There is no, you get to do what you want to do. There is follow me, all who labor and thirst, and all who are weary, and I will give you rest. He tells you in his word with as much love and kindness as he can muster how things should be, what he what he expects of us. He gives us that basic instruction before leaving earth. He gives us that. And we turn it on its head and do what we want to do because what he wants us to do is hard, but it's not hard.

SPEAKER_00 43:38

And that was gonna be my next point is we have made the easiest thing in the world, which is to love Christ and let him love you. It's the easiest relationship you can have, if it's true. And we've turned it into the hardest thing that you can do.

SPEAKER_04 43:57

Yeah, God's love is agape, and we don't have that because agape means no conditions on you. I love you. If you fall off, if you fall off and do these things that I tell you not to do, I still love you. But so many of the people that in indulge in in transgender or in in any of these other things, and I don't want to harp on that, because all sin is sin. But who, you know, alcoholism and they think it's okay just to run around drunk all day or whatever and abuse your wife and all those things. People that run around and do that, that live outside of that, feel like you know, I'm I'm doing I'm doing well.

SPEAKER_02 44:46

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 44:47

For some odd reason they feel like I'm doing well, but you are not living according to the word of God.

SPEAKER_00 44:54

Yeah. Well, maybe I'll use uh maybe I'll use Hank Williams Sr. as an example here. You know who Hank Williams you know who Hank Williams Sr. was, right? I'm offended. You ask me if I know Hank anymore. I don't know. Like some people look at me like I have ten hits. Okay, maybe I'm good. All right. So here's a guy who, you know, he grew up in Montgomery, Alabama, poor kid. Um, you know, grew up to be the greatest, maybe the greatest country music star of all time, you know, the greatest legend that there is. It all starts, let's face it, it all starts, right? And all his popular songs are about honky tonk, yeah, drinking, getting into fights with your woman, uh just anything unf anything unfortunate, he writes about it. Absolutely, and he does it just sheer poetry, just it just still breaks your heart today. Yeah, you could just read the lyrics, you don't even have to listen to the music, and it's gold. Right? So he had a troubled life, he had a bad back, so he wasn't allowed to go into the service, and he had had a back surgery that didn't go well. So, from a young age, you know, he's drinking, uh, he he develops a true, a really bad drinking problem that he never overcomes, right? I mean, he's gonna die at the age of twenty nine from alcoholism from the effects it has on his body, and all the touring and everything. Um you know it, he had all these other songs that he wrote, all these gospel songs, and they're their sheer gold, just to read the lyrics, are like you you know that he truly believed in Christ. Like his heart was true in Christ. Because he wrote those songs because he wanted to write them and he felt them. Now the funny thing was like the record companies didn't want him to release those songs as Hank Williams because you know they didn't go on the jukebox. You weren't gonna put those gospel songs on a jukebox and sell records, and that just wasn't done, so they didn't want him to do that. So he developed this complete alter ego of Luke the Drifter in order to release these gospel you know themed songs that he had wrote, and there's some of his best songs, you know, I saw the light, oh yeah, and the angel of death, and uh, I mean, you know, there's just countless classics that he wrote that are gospel songs. Um, and so to me, here's a man that clearly from the time he was young had this struggle, had this monkey on his back that he could never kick, and and by that I mean alcoholism. But from what I've read, and his songs are a testament to me that he was a true Christian. He truly believed in the Lord and he was willing to sing about it, write about it, perform it, and even go to the extent like, okay, you won't let me release it this way? Well, I'm still gonna find a way to do it. Because I feel it's important to put these songs out there. But that's not what I feel like is going on today. You're not just you're not dealing with people that are struggling, you're dealing with people that have decided that the best case scenario here is in order to have my fame, in order to have everybody look at me on social media, I've gotta, I've gotta completely put that out. Like I can't let anybody know I might believe in Christ. And even more so, it just it just ain't fitting in line with um the million million followers I have. Absolutely. So I'm gonna reject that and and completely just do away with it so that I can go down this path and have freedom, or I can have the right to do what I want with my body, or I can have the right to be a leader of the social movement, and I'm gonna leave Christ completely out of it. That's the concern that I have now that makes me feel like we are the true rebellion, that we are fighting against these people that are looking. I mean, it's no doubt that Hank Williams wanted to be a star. He did. He worked hard for it. Um, he had to be pushed to do it, but he wanted to do it. But he never set aside his Christian faith in order to get it done. In fact, he pushed it harder when people were like, nah, he can't release that stuff. He still found a way to make it happen. But that's not what we're dealing with today. We're dealing with a completely different set of rules here to where you know they're they're trying to completely eliminate that that belief system and that faith in order to push their agenda. Yeah. Well that's what I worry about.

SPEAKER_04 50:01

Yeah. Well, the Bible says that there will be a time when we are lovers of self more than lovers of God, that good will be taken for evil and evil will be taken for good. And people begin to to fall away from the church, which is also something that's that's supposed to happen, brother against brother. And we see the signs, and we see them every day and every day, and we we don't we the more we see it for some odd reason, if if you're not grounded, I'll put it this way, if you're not rooted in God, the more you see it, the less you believe it has any importance. You're like, well, this is this is it's been going on like this forever, so there's nothing to it. That's that's not that's not the fact. The fact is it's it's been going on, it just means we're getting closer. You need to put your faith into Jesus. You need to stop looking at self and saying, I'm the big deal. I want to do what I want to do, I'm free to do this. No, you are not. You are bought with a price. And plain and simple. Whether you're Christian or not, whether you believe in Him or not, His Word says you are bought with a price. That price is the death and resurrection of His Son Jesus Christ. He paid it for me, he paid it for you. No matter what you're going through, no matter who you think you are, no matter how rich you are, no matter how poor you are, how many uh no matter what color you are, what your what religious sect you think you belong to, you are bought with a price. Plain and simple. And if you don't believe that one day, and it says every knee will bow, every tongue confess. And it doesn't say only the Christians will bow and confess, it says every knee will bow, every tongue confess. And that means you and I can be as walking along, and if I'm not living a godly life, and the sky splits, I'm gonna drop to my knees and go, I was wrong. He is Lord of Lord and King of Kings. No matter what my situation, no matter what my what's going on in my life at that point in time, that's what's gonna happen. It doesn't matter if I'm where I am, who I am at the time, it's gonna happen. And so what I would say to people who feel they have a tight, firm grip on life, and that they know what's going on and who they are, supposedly, or what they feel they're who they feel they're supposed to be. They, them, he, she, whatever your connotation, whatever your pronoun, whatever your life situation, whether you're a thief, nailed to the cross, whatever, whatever, whatever's going on with you. One day, one day you're gonna turn around and realize that you, me, we all made a mistake, and that he is who he says he is, and that he's he's he's come for us, and he's not gonna take us all because some of us will miss the boat because we were not ready. Our lamps, our lamps were not full of the oil that we needed it to be full of, it was full of ourselves, and we can't save us. We can't save us, and so I'm not trying to be all doom and gloom or anything like that. I'm trying to deliver the joy of the Lord because that should be that should be exciting to people to know that he is coming. And there isn't there's no escape. He is coming. I I watched uh a movie. Well, several movies, but this movie uh is called Deep Impact. And it's about yeah, it's about uh an EL um ELE or uh extinction level event. Anyway, they were they did all these things they could possibly do to try and make this thing not happen. And in the end, it happened. There was not nothing they could do to stop it. Nothing mortal man could do it, yeah. No, and it's the same with God. He is coming, riding on the clouds, you know, and when that trumpet sounds, we should all, every every single person should be excited. But I can tell you right now, some people will not be.

SPEAKER_00 55:27

Um Saturday night, did you notice the sunset? Oh how red it was? Oh, no, I didn't you didn't see it? No. I bet my wife. We were up in we were up in Philly. We were doing a couple things, and uh, I think we were we were over by the mall, and the sunset was just this beautiful, just dark red, just like incredible. And my mind kind of ran away with me, like, is that how it's gonna look when it, you know? And I and I thought to myself, well, what if it is? And I thought, all right, then it is. Yeah. Like Yeah, bring it to like bring it on. Like I'm ready.

SPEAKER_04 56:07

Like, okay, I but it's just it was really just and not to get all Artsy or Bob Foss or Bob uh the painter. Bob Ross? Yeah, that not to get all Bob Ross on it. It's hilarious that you say this.

SPEAKER_00 56:23

And and this is completely off topic, but I just want to I'm watching something and I came across this interview with Charles Manson, right? And you know how Charles Manson would talk to people like trying to get them to see his view of the world and how it is, and he never did anything, and it's you people that have made me who I am, and you know how he would do, how he would just turn everything and just like totally psychotic but genius at the same time. Well, then I saw a clip of Bob Ross, you know, and he's doing his little happy little accent, and he's doing the same thing, and I thought, you know, we all might just be one hair away from being between a Charles Manson and a Bob Ross. Yeah, like it's so close. Like he's like, and I'm thinking that's that's ridiculous to even think that. But it was a little bit almost humorous to me. I'm like, you know, some people are just uh just a twitch away from being either a Charles Manson or a Bob Ross.

SPEAKER_04 57:22

Just a paint stroke away from just either completely different, complete madness or complete, you know, genius.

SPEAKER_00 57:30

So yeah, yeah, absolutely. But what I was something like Charles Manson probably just thought, I didn't do anything, that was just a happy little accident.

SPEAKER_03 57:38

Yeah, exactly. I'm like what?

SPEAKER_04 57:40

And and and I was uh saying that some days if you just like look up, and and I don't know how you can like look up into the sky, uh especially like during sunset. Look up into the sky and not feel God. How can you just not like He's here? And and because I I do that every now and every now and then I'll go out on my porch and I just happen to look up. And I'm not you know looking for anything in particular, and I I look up and it'll be really like pink clouds that that are like they're just tinged with pink, it's like white, and then like little little bit of lining with pink, and then sunlight kind of like peeking over top of him, and you're like he's here, he's here. I mean, he's always been here, yeah, but he gives us like for just a moment, he gives you that realization that and it consistently happens. Yeah, it's not ever like if you sit down and settle yourself, it happens on the regular, it happens all the time. It's like and nothing can stop it, yeah, and he's always with us, and that's why I find it hard for people that that people don't believe in him. I'm like, take a moment, take a moment out of your selfish life, take a moment away from those things that you're valuing. Look up. It's like he's he says it in his word, be still and know that I am God because it is, it's so simple just to to look up and and enjoy stuff and like everything else is hushed. You're just sitting on the porch reading a book and you look up and you're feeling and it's it's the best feeling. And if you tell me that everybody doesn't feel that at some point in time, I would with no offense say you're lying, because there is always some point in your life, no matter how low you are, that you look up unto the hills from whence comes your help and say, like, there's something there. I don't know what it is, but I know, and that's what you do. That's how you rationalize. I don't know what it is, but there's something there. And then you go back to your life. Live in it for a minute. Live in that, live in that grace that God is providing. In that moment, he's showing himself to you. And you make a choice right then and there whether you're going to bask in what he's, you know, what he's offering you, to recognize that I am here. You have you have problems, say something to me, talk to me. And then we're like, no, no, no, I got it. And then we go and we live our life and we we forget. But he's always gonna be there. He's always gonna have his hand out, you know. Lo, I am with you to the end of the earth. Yep. But I don't know. I just I just thought that was pretty, I just thought that was pretty neat that you know you can look up at any, like you said, anytime. It's always, it's almost like always, he's always there. It's always there. You just have to take time to stop and look up. And you know, you have to look up.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:16

There's and then sometimes you just have to decide, kind of like Bob Ross. Are you gonna be like, okay, are you gonna are you gonna add a beautiful, tall, big pine in that picture that's you, you know, or are you just gonna disregard it and you know, say put a happy little squirrel. Yeah, he's I mean, it's almost as because it's kind of funny because Bob Ross would always start with the clouds in the sky. He kind of brush that in first. Yep. And then all the rest of creation or what you want to put into that painting is what you do next. So it's almost up to you. Like, yep, I'm gonna give you the beautiful sky to appreciate and to look up to. And if you're just willing to just focus, take some time here, and you can put into that all these beautiful things that you want to do.

SPEAKER_04 1:02:05

No, you can add it.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:06

Or you can or your canvas can just go unpainted. Yeah, like you could just walk away from that and oh yeah, absolutely.

SPEAKER_04 1:02:14

You can you can add to your painting whatever you want, you can put all the beauty into your painting you want. You can it's your painting. Yep. That's what he used to say about it. Yeah, it's it's your painting. You do what you want. You add a tree. Yeah. And it's just, I don't know. We um we try too hard. And and that's always what it comes down to for me, is we try too hard to have everything. I have to I have to succeed, I have to I have to be the happiest, I have to, you know, go the farthest, I have to have the most. And that that's God's not in that. God you will not find God in in the most places. You will find him in the quiet places, you'll find him in the places you aren't. That's where he is. If you're not feeling God where you are, he's not there. You need to you need to find him because he's not he's not moving. Yeah, you need to look up and see him, you need to, you know, fall on your knees, call out to him. I I've been saying this a lot, especially for myself, because um a lot of things don't go right. A lot of things don't go your way. Yeah, a lot of things don't go your way. And so you're you're frustrated. And who's uh who's the first to take the heat? It's always him. It's always him. Yeah, don't believe in him, but when when things start to crumble, yeah, it's God doing this to me. Yeah, I got it. He's not. There are two forces at work. And and maybe he is, because there are two forces in nature at work. You're either being pursued by God or being pursued by the devil, and it's very easy to tell which is which. If you're a Christian, you've been living your life for him every day, but things just don't seem to be working out, that's the devil trying to get you to turn. If you haven't followed God and you're doing whatever you feel, and all of a sudden things begin to crumble, that's him trying to get your attention. Like, look, you're doing all the wrong things. Come back to me. If you had something you were so secure with, like this is this this is a sure thing. It will never, it will never crumble. I build it up so much in my mind that it will never crumble. And it begins to fall apart. That's God saying, You've put that before me. Come back to me. I'll even prosper that thing if you'll come back to me and make me first. Whatever it was that you felt was important, I'll raise it up again. But only if I'm in front. And we and we we don't we don't want to do that.

SPEAKER_00 1:05:14

No.

SPEAKER_04 1:05:16

But uh like I said, a lot of a lot of that was for me and not for other people. So if somebody gets that, that's fine. I'm sure somebody does. Yeah, but a lot of yeah, a lot of that was.

SPEAKER_00 1:05:30

I was trying to make my point there, and it was taking me a while to get. And then you kind of just come back and put it all.

SPEAKER_04 1:05:37

Yeah, I told you we're gonna be able to do that.

SPEAKER_00 1:05:39

Sometimes I have all these scattered thoughts, and I'm trying to get them in line, and then you just like, oh yeah, I get you. And then you put them all, you put them all in perspective. I'm like, oh, perfect.

SPEAKER_04 1:05:46

Yeah, I told you we're the dynamic duo.

SPEAKER_00 1:05:48

It's like well, sometimes I'm trying to be careful with my words. Like I said, the last thing I ever want to do is like you know, criticize somebody or uh, you know, just make somebody feel, you know, less less, less than, you know, that's that's never my mission. Yeah. Um I just like I said, I I have just realized that, and I don't know if it's spiritual maturity or just getting older, but you know, there's just certain things that um I'm not willing to put aside or just brush off in order to keep the peace, in order to just say, Yeah, we'll get in order to say we'll get there. We don't need to we don't need to discuss God, we'll get there. We'll We'll find a way. Anymore, I'm just like, no, we we have to discuss him. We do have to put him at the front of everything that we're doing. And that again, that doesn't I'm not saying like I'm perfect and you need to figure it out. I've got it all figured out. That is not what I'm saying. I'm just saying like you have to put God first because if you don't, as you said, everything will fall apart. Like you just you can't, I don't think you can have a successful society. I I I don't think you can have a successful marriage. I don't think you can have, you know, a successful um you know um profession. You know, you you can you I just don't think you can do anything if if he's not at the forefront. I mean you can. I mean again people say, well, there's plenty of millionaires out there that that are atheists. Okay, but like you said, but yeah, on paper, he's a millionaire. But you have no idea what's going on behind.

SPEAKER_04 1:07:35

See, and that's that's another thing because there are lots of millionaires and billionaires, and now a trillionaire. But uh that doesn't mean they're happy, that doesn't mean they're fulfilled. Um I I'm always looking at um Robin Williams and his life. Yeah, he had everything. He he would walk into a room and everyone is everybody's loving him and cracking up and just enjoying his presence. Me included. Yeah, and yeah, me, I some of his movies I just you know, I'm still rolling today. You can play him back, and like Jamanji is like one of my favorite movies with him in it. And um my point is that he had this gift, and he made a lot of money from it, and he had a lot of fame and he had a lot of notoriety, and it wasn't enough. It was it wasn't enough, and that's what if anything, that's what I want somebody to understand. And I don't I don't care who gets it, who doesn't get it, but I I would love for at least one person to get it that doesn't matter what you accumulate. And I I'm ta and I'm not talking just wealth, doesn't matter what you accumulate, friends, um whatever.

SPEAKER_00 1:09:03

And I'm learning this on this move. Like I am picking up and moving so many things that I don't even touch or see in a year or more. Like I need I haven't given this, I haven't given this thing a thought. And I don't know how long. Yeah, well I got it, and I at some point I had to have it.

SPEAKER_04 1:09:20

Yeah, and and it's amazing the things that you have that you don't need.

SPEAKER_00 1:09:25

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:09:26

I mean, and if you if you broke it down, I I'm pretty sure I would start out like my daughter Elsa. Because we're having we're gonna have a yard sale here shortly. Supposedly, we'll see how that works out. That might be another uh episode. But um, we're getting ready to have a yard sale. And uh she wants to do her, we're gonna have like a little Elsa corner, all her toys and whatnot, and clothes that don't fit her anymore, and it's Elsa's Elsa's shop, and you pay Elsa for whatever it is.

SPEAKER_00 1:10:02

That's cool.

SPEAKER_04 1:10:03

She can't part with anything. No. There's toys in her playroom. She forgot she even had, so we start start pulling out things to put in the artist.

SPEAKER_03 1:10:16

Oh, I love that. That's my favorite.

SPEAKER_04 1:10:19

That's my favorite. She says that for every single piece. That's my favorite. I'm like, Elsa, you haven't played with this since you were two. You're seven now. But I love it. And that's that's the way we get. We go through, we go through our life and we build things up and you know, and we collect and we collect and we collect. And uh it's never enough. We always need one more thing, one more this, one more that, and the latest thing, the newest thing, the the most nostalgic thing, things that you know take us back in our childhood and stuff like that.

SPEAKER_00 1:11:02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:11:02

Well, I I do that. You know, I I hear certain certain songs all of a sudden I want to go back and find the old CD and buy it.

SPEAKER_02 1:11:09

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:11:10

But you know, it's never enough. The only thing that's enough, and the only thing that will ever be enough is your relationship with God and Jesus Christ. Because it doesn't tarnish, it doesn't get moss, and it doesn't it doesn't yield to the times. And that's that's something else because times will change. People will yeah, people will do different things.

SPEAKER_00 1:11:38

We've we've laid heavy on that idea that the order you get, you know, everything else is gonna fail you. Everything else is gonna give up on you. Absolutely. You're gonna give up on everything else. Uh yeah, everything everything that you do takes.

SPEAKER_04 1:11:52

There are things that have value to you now that will be totally unimportant in a year, maybe sooner.

SPEAKER_03 1:11:58

Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:11:59

Because there are there are things I have at home that I treasure.

SPEAKER_03 1:12:04

Sure.

SPEAKER_04 1:12:04

But I can almost I can almost guarantee you that next year I I may still love it, but the degree of love for it will be will be diminished.

SPEAKER_00 1:12:15

There's well, and I can be a hundred percent honest and say if if you put any of my personal possessions down and said, okay, you either got to give this up or your relationship with Jesus, you got to give up the idea that he's your Lord and Savior, which is it. I'm I'm picking the item. Yeah, absolutely. I don't care how I don't care how much I paid for it or how special I thought it was, or if it's a numbered edition, you know, and only so many were made. I don't care. Yeah. Like I'm never gonna I'm never gonna pick something of this world.

SPEAKER_04 1:12:45

Yeah. I will never have an attachment to something so great that I will drop my Lord and Savior. That's just not gonna happen. And and again, we're not trying to browbeat anybody. No. We're we're trying to let people understand that he's the he's the choice. And this in this and like we're gonna be able to do that.

SPEAKER_00 1:13:06

Well, I'm trying to bring forth, I'm trying to bring forth this whole episode to me was about bringing forth a true, my true conviction that this is what I believe.

SPEAKER_04 1:13:16

And that's the real re that's the real rebellion. Right. Yes, too.

SPEAKER_00 1:13:20

This there's no way, there's no longer any way around my conviction. You're you're not gonna convince me of anything else. Like, I've done my time, and and that's that's what I would say. Like, look, people, I've done my time on the other side. And I started young as a young believer, and I bought myself, my first Bible when I was 13. I did it, my parents didn't buy it for me. Nobody pushed me to do it. I wasn't going to Sunday school and somebody told me I should do it. I bought it myself. I went out and did it on my own because it's I felt I needed to do it and I wanted to do it. And even through all that of reading the Bible from that age and going through everything I went through, I still went through a time in my life where I thought, I'm gonna do the like we said in the last episode. I'm going in singles matches now, I'm doing this thing on my knees. Yep, going after the heavyweight title. Forget the tag team title. And you'll never win. Uh uh. You know, I I've so I've done all that too. And I've realized, like, yeah, that that didn't. I got no fulfillment. Yeah, I got some great memories out of it, I guess. Like I lived lived for a while, but I got nothing out of it. Well, and you think now to come full circle, to come back to the church to do to do everything I'm doing now, to do this podcast. I'm like, it's always been in me, as you said. It's in each and every one of us. No matter we realize it or not, or whether we ever come to it or not, it's in us. Yeah. And it's up to us to decide. Okay, are you gonna have that conviction to keep going with this thing and and truly believe it and live it? Or is it just gonna be like any of your other fads or items that you've picked up along the way? How important is it really to you that if somebody comes to you and says, Well, I think you should give Buddhism a try, you know, because I think you'd really benefit from you know this. See what you're going through, you know, yoga piece. It's like, okay, I get it, but no. I I've I've found what I've been looking for. I found a long time ago. Um sticking with it.

SPEAKER_04 1:15:30

See, I've been I've been fortunate and and we all have, but um speaking completely selfishly, I've been very fortunate to be uh led around this this entire life of mine by people with with solid Christian backgrounds, with solid belief in Jesus and in and in the Lord, because everybody don't get that. Some people from their very birth had to deal with hard people, had to deal with people who have no, you know, belief in the Lord, and so led them into this and led them into that, and so they start out with a you know he's against me attitude. That's that's a trick of the devil. He is not against you. No. If God can be for you, who can be against you? He's he's always for you. No weapon formed against you shall prosper. You have to I I say this all the time. Just pick up the book. Pick up that's the the best thing you can do. I bought my I not to try and compete, but I brought my own book. Not my not the not the first Bible I didn't buy by myself. I have one of those uh New Testament, only little Gideons type thing. That was my that was my first Bible. But when I got a Bible that had both Old and New Testament, I bought it myself. I was like 17 when I went to this church and got baptized and everything, and I felt I needed the Bible to to study, I was on fire. So people um they have uh they have doubt about who he is and they mistrust because of you know what they've been through. But he didn't change. He doesn't change. He's unchangeable, he's unshaken, he's he's invincible, he's omnipotent, all knowing, he's just we don't understand, and we will never understand until he calls us home what all this was for. But he's I and I've said this to a friend of mine before at uh at work. He's behind time, he's ahead of time, he's inside time, outside time. He is those things that we can't possibly figure out. He knows us before we know us, he knows us in the womb, he knows the number of hairs on our head. How can you not follow when he knows all of that? He knows me, he knows me in the darkness, he knows me in broad daylight, he knows me when I'm up, he knows me when I'm down. How can you not follow? Because no one knows me that well. My wife doesn't know me that well, right? Right. My you know, my best friend doesn't know me that well. None of my brothers know me that well. Some of my brothers, like I could I could call one of my brothers, and I say brothers because my sisters have all passed, but I could call my brother and say, you know what I did today? And wait for a response. And be like, no deal, what'd you do today? But when I fall on my knees in prayer to God, I say, You know what I did today? Like, yeah, I know what you did. You and you did well, you did good. I was proud of you. He knows everything. Before I know it, he knows my next thought, he knows my and and and it always brings me back to how can you not follow? Yeah. He's he's the infinite.

SPEAKER_00 1:19:23

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:19:24

And we just we're we're more than willing to drop him at the drop of the hat for our for our guilty pleasure, whatever it is.

SPEAKER_00 1:19:32

You know, I had a lot of fun in I guess what most people would think is rebellion. But I don't have I don't have anything to show for it. Nope. Nothing. I had a lot of fun, you know. Again, this is this is and being truthful, it kind of puts it in perspective, I think, for other people. When I can say, hey, no doubt about it. I had a lot of fun when I thought I was in that true rebellion, like I'm gonna do this on my own. Like you can't figure this out, I'll figure it out for myself. Yeah, I had a lot of fun, but I can promise you I don't have anything to show for it. Nothing. And it wasn't till I was like, all right, yeah, yeah. I'm ready to come back. That I I saw my life started to start to go back up the mountain. Like, you know, it's just it's just the truth.

SPEAKER_04 1:20:25

It is just and and the thing is that people often think that being a Christian's not fun.

SPEAKER_00 1:20:33

Yeah, we've talked about that. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:20:34

I gotta tell you, I'm having a ball. Yeah. I'm having a ball. You know, I'm not having any worse time than anybody that's out there in the clubs, doing whatever they're doing. I'm having just as much fun. Yeah. Because the Lord clears a path for me. And He He presents things to me that are fun. He presents things to me where I have Christian friends and we enjoy each other. And I'm having fun. And I'm in His will. I am doing what He calls me to do. I am bringing others to the fun side as well. I'm like, look, it's not a chore, it's not a task. It's love me as I love you. And that's all and that's all he says. Love me as I love you. Now, I don't want to paint us like you know everything is sunshine with him because it's not, because once you love him and want to do what he says, then comes the challenge. But he's there with you. And so the challenge is not not a true challenge because he's going through it with you. It's not like do this on your own. Yeah. It is always do this and I'll be there with you. When when you start to feel weak, I'll carry you. And and we always think that it's gotta be something difficult with him. And it doesn't. It's the simplest thing. And you can have fun and be a Christian. You can, you know, celebrate. We for some odd reason the world thinks we can't celebrate. Right. But we can, we do. And it's it's guilt free because we are following at what God would have us to do. We're not um abandoning any of any of his things for our thing. We're we're following him and he's he created fun. He rest he rested when he was when he was done working, he rested. And he didn't rest because he had to. He rested because we need to know you can relax. I mean, could do if he had not rested on the seventh day, and it was in the word that he just kept working, he just continued to work, what kind of society would we be now? We would think, oh, God, God worked seven days. I I need you know, but he let us know by saying he rested. It's okay to take a break to to back off of things. He didn't need to, because he he has infinite energy. But he let us know by stopping that you can stop now and then honor me. You hear that, Margie? You can stop once in a while. You can stop once in a while. Gosh. Don't get us started on you. We did that last episode.

SPEAKER_00 1:23:50

Speaking of stopping, Dale, it's almost nine o'clock. I think we should PM Eastern Standard Time. Yes, before uh my wife. What time do you get up in the morning now?

SPEAKER_04 1:24:00

Uh well I can get up later now, thanks for this job. Uh I was when I was working at battle, I was getting up at like four o'clock. Yeah. And that, yeah, no bueno. Yeah. So now I get up. Yeah. So now the earliest.

SPEAKER_00 1:24:15

That'll be one that'll be one uh positive to the move is I won't have to get up till five. Yes. I get a little bit Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:24:22

I usually wind up getting up about seven now. So I'm liking that.

SPEAKER_00 1:24:28

I bet you are. I am. I'm loving it. All right, sir. Well, till next time. I I enjoyed it. Yes, sir. Nobody everybody else out there has a uh good week. Uh stay cool if you're in the uh states here. It's another hot week and uh close to a hundred. Don't don't push it if you don't have to. So save that line, Mower, for chill out evening to the podcast.

SPEAKER_04 1:24:57

Yep. Don't forget, try and shoot us a message every now and then. Yes, sir.

SPEAKER_00 1:25:02

All right, I'll pray us out. Okay. Lord, thank you for allowing Dale and I to be in your presence again and to uh just um just put forth our conviction that we truly believe that you are the Lord and Savior, and that we know that there is no fear in in telling people about you and um challenging um modern you know perceptions that your word is trying to hold people back, that your word is going against kindness and love and mercy and understanding. Um just help us to continue to put forth that word that um everything that you have to offer is all the can replace all the things that people are consistently trying to search for, um that just keep them searching, that just keep on pushing them towards something that that they're never gonna that they're never gonna find, they're never gonna find peace and happiness in that. And uh I just pray that uh with each episode that we do, that we just always keep in mind that uh that's what we're after, is that we're just trying to convey that uh conviction and convey that promise of just everlasting life with you and the true promise that we can find that peace and love and understanding only under your guidance. Uh I pray for travel mercies this evening. I pray that my good friend Dale enjoys the rest of his week. And uh I pray that we can all meet up here at the next appointed time. Amen.

SPEAKER_04 1:26:54

Amen.