Life Through a Queer Lens
Welcome to the Life Through a Queer Lens Podcast, where anyone with an open mind and heart can learn about the LGBTQIA+ Community from the people within it! We're your hosts, Jenene (she/her, they/them) and Kit (they/them).
Life Through a Queer Lens
EP11: Flatten the Curve: Binder Talk
Journey with us as we unravel the seemingly complex world of binders and their profound impact on the transgender and non-binary community. We dive headfirst into personal experiences, revealing the unspoken nuances that come with the use of binders, from discomfort to panic attacks. But it's not all doom, as we turn the page to discuss viable alternatives like trans tape and snug undershirts. We're not leaving any stone unturned as the conversation steers towards the potential harm of using ace bandages, drawing from personal experiences in our shared quest for safe and comfortable gender expression.
Sometimes, the path to finding the right binder can feel like navigating a minefield. As we share pointers on purchasing binders, we emphasize the significance of quality and right fit. Hear us out on why it might be worth looking for secondhand options, especially those from empathetic trans individuals or companies attuned to the needs of the queer community. We even spotlight some dubious players in the market like Bindly, emphasizing the need for thorough research before any purchase. Sprinkle in some trivia about the first American TV show featuring a recurring gay character, and you've got yourself a comprehensive guide to promoting queer consumer safety and fostering a welcoming environment for all.
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We're going to be discussing binders. So what are binders? Binders are typically used by transgender men and non-binary individuals assigned female at birth who wish to have a flatter chest and align their physical appearance with their gender identity. Binders are designed to help individuals achieve more of a masculine or gender neutral chest contour, which, as we know, can be, for many individuals, an important aspect of their gender expression. And, just as a side note, not everyone in the queer community uses binders. Everyone has their own diverse experiences and preferences related to their unique gender expression. Kip, did you ever?
Speaker 2:wear binders. So this is someone, a queer person, who doesn't really wear binders because I can't. They give me panic attacks, the constant compression against my chest and it kind of makes me feel like I'm stuck or I'm trapped, and every single time I've tried to wear a binder I've almost immediately had a panic attack. I usually just wear sports bras when I'm not really feeling these are necessary. But another thing I found really helpful is trans tape, also like KT tape, but trans tape is like the official way that it's talked about and it's great genuinely. It can be worn for, I believe, like two days about. It's just, it's you just kind of like tape the breast back and it allows for a completely flat chest in the same way that binders do, without that overbearing compression.
Speaker 2:I will say they tend to cost more money over time than a binder because it's not just a one time purchase. Like a binder, you have to keep buying more rolls of tape. For me personally it is a million times more comfortable and just so breathable and way, way easier for me than a binder. Because I've tried, I've been given hand-me-down binders, I've bought new binders, I've gotten ones from great companies and ones from Amazon and no matter what I just the compression gives me a panic attack. What about you? Have you ever had any experience in the realm of like binders and stuff like that? I know that you know you're just now exploring your gender really, but have you experienced, you know, using binders before?
Speaker 1:So on a previous episode, when I told my story how I was dressing really androgynously, sort of, when I, around the time that I first came out, I wore the ace bandage. That's kind of what my default was when I was exploring my own gender identity, sexual orientation, and it kind of worked because of my smaller frame and build. Honestly, it wasn't much different for me than wearing a sports bra, which I don't prefer as well. I've been kind of experimenting on and off over the years with going bra-less and I've gone through phases with it, although I really hate bras and actually accentuating my breasts having to have something to hold them all day long. I also really don't even like anything whatsoever.
Speaker 1:Generally speaking, though, I do like the option of wearing a binder on a specifically super androgynous day or during times of being in public when I'm feeling more gender neutral, if that makes sense. But yeah, but for me it's more about just not liking the feeling of having something binding. You know, like you were saying before, like the compression gives you panic attacks. I don't like that feeling of something impressing my body in general as opposed to hiding my features of me that identify me as female. So for me it's more about. I don't like to feel compressed, and that's more important for me then it's not really for me about hiding my features that correlate with the feminine parts of me.
Speaker 2:So fair. Honestly, I feel like trans tape might be a decent option because it generally if you can handle pasties or like bra-less bras, it's kind of the same, with just a bit more like whole rather than like compression or binding feeling. It's genuinely good and I have also. I am also guilty of the dreaded ace bandage when I was 16 and I was cosplaying. Was it Dean Winchester? Oh no, I might really be calling myself out here. I think I was cosplaying Dean Winchester. It was a home-built cosplay. The only thing I bought for it was the necklace. Yep, it was Dean Winchester.
Speaker 2:I I binded with ace bandage because, uh, I didn't have anything else. And, yeah, for me personally, even as I'm with a smaller stature, I remember being sore after binding with an ace bandage, like sore than any other binding method. There was just this like weird ache like in the rib area down here, not quite like just that, like connecting area between, like, the breast and the rib. There was just an ache and I was like, oh, I don't know if this is actually like a good thing.
Speaker 1:Yeah, the ace bandage is actually known for skin irritation because they're actually made to provide support for sprains and strains. They're specifically engineered for that. That's something that I came to when I was using them. I was like why? Why does this actually hurt? You know, plus that, plus the friction that they caused on my skin, what I started doing, and I still do, is if I'm having a particularly androgynous day or I'm feeling more gender fluid that day, what I'll do is I'll wear, well, what's typically referred to as the wife beater, but I hate that term. I call them like the Haines muscle shirt. You know, I don't even think guinea-tea is an appropriate term, but it's not much better yeah.
Speaker 1:How else are you gonna identify them right?
Speaker 2:No, really, there is no other word. I totally know what you mean, though. Yeah.
Speaker 1:So I typically wear one of those and I get a small and they're super tight and I tuck them in and then I'll wear a T-shirt on top of that. Or if I'm going to work, I'll wear a golf shirt or a button-down shirt. Occasionally, like you said earlier, I'll wear the Paisies. It depends on the environment, it depends on how professional I have to be, it depends on the temperature If it's a particularly nipply day, yep. But I try to pick something that I can be in my most comfortable environment with self, because then I can just be free and be me.
Speaker 2:That is genuinely the most important thing, honestly, is being comfortable with how you look, but also, just in general, in your clothes, in what you're wearing. It's important to be physically comfortable throughout your day, or else you're not gonna have a good day.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and I understand the point and concept of binders, but to me they really don't feel any different than a sports bra. I can still maintain my androgyny with either of those two or wearing nothing at all, but I do recognize, for trans men and other non-binary folks, the sports bra and or wearing nothing, if you can get away with that right.
Speaker 2:Right, yeah.
Speaker 1:It comes with more of a feminine identity, whereas the binders are actually one of the many ways that more masculine individuals align with their outward appearance, with their gender identity. So and I can get away with that because I'm smaller.
Speaker 2:Right and say it. Not even just that, but there are so many different body types under the queer umbrella and there are trans men who were unfortunately they were very, very large breasted. And binders become a necessity at that point because even sometimes trans tape doesn't really do it. You know, like there are certain people who can't really use trans tape just because it's not covering enough, they don't really make it large enough to actually do what it needs to do. So in those cases binders become so necessary and it becomes extremely important to find a good quality binder.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and all to say, it's important to remember that each person's experience with gender expression is unique. So, whichever and however you choose to feel in alignment with your inner self, as valid, as real as you, so, keep being you, but also as you bring up. You know, safety is definitely an important consideration because there are health risks and there are younger people, especially young queer people, that are exploring and experimenting, and we definitely want those young queer people to be safe in their exploration.
Speaker 2:Absolutely, and that's the most important thing is that people remain safe. Do diligent research before purchasing something, before choosing to bind with something. Try to find people who are similar sizes to you to read reviews from. Usually on certain websites, people can list what size they purchased and what size they are with their review, and that's a really, really good thing to have, because then you can find your specific sizing and figure out how it fit for that person and kind of see if you know like okay, I might have a similar experience with this, then that is vital for things like binders.
Speaker 1:Yeah, binders should definitely be used with care and caution. It's crucial to wear a binder that is the correct size, like Kit said, made of safe, breathable materials, because they minimize the risk of health issues. Some of them are known to be associated with breathing difficulties, skin irritation, musculoskeletal problems. Like I was saying before with the ACE bandages, they're made for muscle and ligamentous injuries. When you are wearing a binder, you definitely don't want to wear them for long periods of time. You want to not wear them all day long, but more so, maybe wear them from when you're out in public, so to speak, or at least take some breaks.
Speaker 2:I believe the max is six hours. So really, truly try not to exceed that max. I know it's hard, especially queer people going to school, queer people going to work. A lot of times you're working at eight hour workday. Even if you can just sneak out to your car and get your binder off, or into a bathroom and get your binder off for even five to 10 minutes, it makes a difference genuinely. Your body will appreciate that.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and with that the binders should fit snugly right, but not too tightly. And normally I'd say it's important to follow sizing guidelines provided by the manufacturers, but sometimes certain companies. That's a moot point because some of the manufacturing companies don't necessarily have the best reputations and we're going to get into some of the resources here in a minute. Basically, you should also avoid trying to make like homemade binders, because I know back when I started using the ace bandage right there were people that were, you know, using a variety of homemade or makeshift methods to just achieve a flatter chest, for lack of a better way of putting it.
Speaker 2:Duck tape was a big one.
Speaker 1:Yeah. Yeah, I mean, one of the ways I just talked about is layering. Right, you can wear multiple tight fitting. I've seen I don't do this because I don't need to, but I've seen people wearing multiple tight fitting sports bras. But you can do it with other clothing items to some extent. You know, like I was saying before, just wearing the I'm going to call it a muscle shirt underneath whatever shirt I was wearing, just to help kind of flatten things out. Right, there's the bandages.
Speaker 2:Do be careful with multiple sports bras. There have been instances of people cracking ribs because they just they got too tight and they got too low, and there have been instances of people hurting themselves with multiple layers of tight sports bras. So if that is something you are doing or you're thinking about doing, do it with caution.
Speaker 1:Yeah, there's also other DIY binders where people have attempted to create their own makeshift binders by sewing together multiple layers of fabric with elastic materials. All the above have varied in effectiveness and safety. So, yeah, it's just, it's really important to make sure that you you know, listen to things that we're saying and make sure that when you, if you are in the market for a binder, that you are safe, you do have the proper fit, you do wear it for the appropriate amount of hours for you and just listen to your body. If you feel uncomfortable or you feel pain, that's your body expressing something to you. It's your body's way of communicating to you that something's not right.
Speaker 1:If you're wearing something too long or it's too tight or something's rubbing, then you want to shift. You always want to listen to your body. You want to make a shift. You want to make a change. Explore other options, talk to people, reach out, see what reputable resources are out there. But at the end of the day, you're the most important and sacrificing your health is never a good thing, because we need your expression here in the queer community.
Speaker 2:You are all absolutely needed and yes, that is all absolutely incredible advice, correct? Like, yeah, and another good thing to have if you're in the market for a binder your measurements, get your measurements. Get your measurements up here over your breast, under your breast, your waist, even if you're planning on getting a full tank binder. Get around the arms, because sometimes binders will include around the arm measurements and I know personally for me, especially with my autism, if things are too close to my armpits I'm breaking the seams, I'm ripping them apart, seam by seam to stretch that, because that's not going to work in my book. So get your measurements so you know exactly what you need. To be really, really comfortable and good for you Having those numbers. Just get them. Jot them down Anytime you're looking for a binder. You have them. You don't have to worry. Take them again every couple of months if you still haven't found one, because you know bodies change over time. Try to keep up on your measurements.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and with that. So let's dive into some resources. There are several companies and organizations that provide binders designed for safe and effective chest compression, and we've a couple of the ones that we found are called GC2B Underworks, and I'm not sure how to pronounce this, but I think it's flaunt streetwear. How about we? How about we spell it, if L A, v, n, t and then streetwear all one word. So, kit, do you want to just give a little synopsis of each of these companies?
Speaker 2:I would gladly so. Gc2b they are great. They will always hold a special place in my heart and soul. They were one of the first companies to come out and really, really support the queer community with much needed binders. But unfortunately, in the past two to three years, GC2B's quality has gone down exponentially, which is something that many, many people in the queer community have experienced that will tell you firsthand. So if you are going to get a GC2B binder, do your best to get it secondhand. Get it used, Get it from another trans person who knows who's had the surgery or who is, you know, no longer looking for that level of transition and who is, you know. Find someone who is willing to hand me down a binder or sell it secondhand and genuinely get them secondhand, Because, since the quality has gone down, their old ones are still great. There are binders from. I mean, I got donated a binder back in 2015 that was a GC2B that the person who had it bought the year the company launched and it was still in impeccable quality. I ended up giving it to another trans person. I think they're still using it Impeccable quality but unfortunately, you know, gotta find those old ones Underworks.
Speaker 2:They are another one. They are great, I will say their quality is still phenomenal. From what I've heard, their quality has not gone down. However, I have heard that their prices have gone up a little bit and, considering the queer community being in crisis already, you know, seeking mutual aid, there's been so many, so many queer people fleeing unsafe states, needing financial help. It's very disheartening to see a queer company upping prices at a time when it would be best to try not to, but everyone's got to do what they got to do. Corporations gonna corporate money gonna money. What are you gonna do? So? Their quality is still good though. So if you have the money, yeah, Underworks is great. They will definitely supply you with a good binder, especially. You've got your measurements, you, and they're cute too. They've got some that are really, really cute and Flavent, Fla-Flaunt Flavant I do not know how to pronounce it. They're actually the.
Speaker 2:I have only just heard of them and I am thoroughly impressed. They clearly care deeply for the queer community. They started out making clothing just for the queer community and then branched into binders once they felt they were ready, which I feel like is a much better way of doing things than just starting out with binders and not really, you know, you build yourself up a little bit with other things and then you get into binders when you're sure you're ready to deliver the best quality product. They've helped 14 trans people achieve gender affirming care with $32,000 in donations. From what I've seen, I've been really, really liking, and they have a lot of really cute clothes. Their shirts are adorable. I want the Pretty Boy shirt. They have a shirt. This is Pretty Boy. That is so cute. I love that.
Speaker 1:I'm also not mad at the two witches kissing over the moon on their homepage.
Speaker 2:See, like that's a vibe. Just saying Another binder company that I've been hearing decent things about is them Themus. I believe they're another one. That's great. They tend to market more toward the non-binary crowd, which means their binders can be a little looser, but they are also very cute. There's a really cute mushroom one that I saw that I was like, yeah, they're another one. That's very, very good, I think themus, yes, levantus, they've been a shining beacon of today.
Speaker 1:Yeah, even I'm curious. I love what you say. You're giving some background on the different companies and quality versus what the price points are. And just to reiterate what we've been saying about safety and everything, you want to buy something that is of value and that's not crap. At the end of the day, it's an investment and it's investment in you. It's like buying a good strap on.
Speaker 1:You don't want to go down to the truck stop and just buy anything because that shit ain't going to last, it's also going to be irritating and it's also probably not going to be non-porous and all the other list of things that you want to check off. Right, while I don't agree with hiking up prices, while the queer community is sort of in a place of need, we'll say, just to get the point across I do believe in investing in ourselves and our own safety and things that resonate with how we want to present ourselves for the long term. Because, even though we're on this quest and journey to express, in complete alignment with our gender identity and figure out all the pieces to that, don't forget that it is a journey and sometimes you're going to try things and you're not going to like them, and then other times you'll try things and it'll be like, wow, this is great, this hits home, this is exactly what I was looking for, and then it sticks. But at the end of the day, you don't want to skimp out on yourself because you are worth the investment, and that's how I feel You're going to spend the money.
Speaker 1:You might as well invest in something that's quality, not get ripped off by a company, but buy something from a company that stands for what you stand for. They're doing the right things. They're giving back to the trans community. They're providing scholarships. Some companies also offer, like binder, exchange programs to those who can't afford them. Do your research. It's okay to do research instead of just taking advice from other people, and that's pretty much what this episode is all about. It's just to raise a little awareness, bring up some points that maybe you haven't thought of, and then just talk about the things that people aren't really talking about.
Speaker 2:Absolutely.
Speaker 1:And speaking of bringing awareness, yeah, tell us about that last company.
Speaker 2:Yeah. So there is some awareness that needs to be brought to a company that has been mass advertising through social media sites such as TikTok, instagram. I believe they've also been on Facebook. However, when you go to their website, they themselves do not have a single one of these social media accounts, which on its own okay, but with a bunch of other things not so okay. There's been multiple different sites, including scam researchernet, that have given this site a very, very low score Not that great. So another one of the very weird things about this website, aside from having no social media, despite having a large ad campaign on social media, is the website is extraordinarily young. It was created in on August 4th of this year, so this website is less than a year old, and most scam websites tend to be a year or less on the internet. So that's two strikes.
Speaker 2:Their return policy was another thing I personally found kind of weird. They have a 60 day return policy, which great, that's fine. But to be eligible for a return, the binder must be in the same condition that you received it, in unworn or unused, with tags and in its original packaging. So you can't try it on, can't try it on, gotta be unworn. So if they get it back and it's got visible signs of being worn even once because you put on a binder even once there's signs you know it doesn't look fresh out of the package they just won't take it back and they won't give you your money back.
Speaker 1:Not practical.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I'm not going to count it as a full strike, but it is going to be a side eye. Their about us statement was another thing I found very strange. So the website has no owner or address listed, which, you know, many websites don't for privacy reasons and things like that. However, it is also usually a sign of scam websites. So, but the about us claims to have been found have been founded by a person named Thomas Vasquez, who's goes by she her pronouns. So the about us reads finally, was founded in 2021 by Thomas Vasquez.
Speaker 2:She started the company because her trans brother, who was experiencing dysphoria about his chest, asked if she could make him a compression top. Thomas gladly took on the challenge and used her sewing experience to develop her first binder for him. More and more people started coming to her for gender affirming items. What began as a one time endeavor quickly grew into a large business with expertise on shapewear for gender creative people. Over the years, the company grew and moved offices to its current location in Los Angeles, california. Thomas has passed forward to 2023. Bindly has grown into a thriving business with a dedicated team. Its mission is still the same as it had been when Thomas made her first binder back in 2021 to make gender affirming items that celebrate any and every gender expression with high quality fabrics and a great eye for detail and comfort.
Speaker 2:And now I completely and totally understand that there are many, many people who speak English as a second language. I am 110% understanding and empathetic toward that. Its spell check is free. If you have a computer to make a website, please visit the website. You have spellcheck. There were so many spelling and grammar errors throughout the About Me page. You cannot publish something and expect people to look at you as a reputable business with that many spelling and grammar errors. You look it looks like it was written by AI.
Speaker 1:I think AI would even do better than that.
Speaker 2:It's just, it's very weird. It was very iffy. I couldn't find any information about this supposed Thomas Vasquez person. You Google them. This is the only thing that comes up.
Speaker 1:This is a page that is pretty popping on TikTok right now, right they?
Speaker 2:don't actually have a TikTok. They are only posting ads. So when you click on the TikTok account, it just takes you to this website. They don't have their own account. It just takes you to their sales page, where you can only view the binders for sale, the About Me page and the Contact Me page.
Speaker 1:Gotcha, so they're doing TikTok ads.
Speaker 2:And I believe they're also doing Instagram ads and I think they also have some on Facebook, but they're mainly focusing on TikTok, because a lot of young queer people are on TikTok.
Speaker 1:Right. So the name of the company is Bindly B-I-N-D-L-Y, and we're not outright saying that this website is a scam. But what we are saying is this website has a lot of red flags and it's a marketing toward a community that is being targeted en masse from every angle. So we feel the community has a right to know about these red flags and assess for themselves If this is a site they want to trust with their information, their money, their physical safety through their products. So that's why we're bringing that up.
Speaker 2:Absolutely, especially since there's a bunch of connections on this website through their Contact Me page, through their domain name, through so many different things to something called GetPolarPlungecom. If you Google GetPolarPlungecom, as I did the other night, the only thing that comes up is Bindly's website. Yeah, that's not professional or impressive.
Speaker 2:That's fishy, that's fishy, that is straight up fishy. I know a fish. If it looks like a duck and it sounds like a duck, it's a duck, it's a duck, I want it to be. You know like I want to see more binder companies coming out and I want this to be a good thing, but unfortunately, the deeper I looked into it, the more it just kind of looked like a place to gather information from people visiting that website and store it somewhere. Even their privacy policy, their privacy policy states that you need to go to GetPolarPlungecom to read it and then GetPolarPlunge doesn't exist. It makes no sense.
Speaker 1:It just, and they're still duping people. That's the crazy part.
Speaker 2:Yeah, they've made a lot of sales. Their TikToks have a lot of interaction and I've noticed there's a couple people on TikTok who have been making videos calling them out, who have been saying directly this is a scam and they've gotten traction, thankfully. But unfortunately, every time I see one of those videos getting some traction, I see a Bindly ad with almost triple the likes and it's insidious, it's gross, it's feeding on a community that is already going through so much, for the sole purpose of realizing like, oh, they've got some money and these binders are in cheap. They're 35 bucks.
Speaker 1:And that's the way social media works too is the more polarization there is with the ads ie comments, shares, likes, even if it's negative. The more polarization there is, the more they're going to hit those algorithms that they keep changing all the time, but unfortunately it puts them more on the map. They keep hitting the next level, the next level, the next level of visibility.
Speaker 2:Now 100%. It's one of those things where, unfortunately, it is the definition of nowadays all publicity is good publicity. That's where we're at now. We have gotten to that point and it's kind of one of those things where even us talking about them here, I recognize, will bring this company to some people's attention who've never heard of it before, and they may end up getting a binder you don't even feel like. They may end up kind of being like, oh, they're not actually that bad and yeah, I just I want to see queer people safe and happy and getting things that that spending their money on things that will genuinely be beneficial for them.
Speaker 1:Anybody listening to this. Whether you're queer yourself or a queer ally, you make a difference. We want you to be safe. That's why we're doing this. We want you to be safe. You make a difference, you matter, and we want to see queer people, more queer people, being themselves, expressing to the fullest.
Speaker 2:Do your research, look into a binder before you get it. Look into the company, make sure it's it's you know, legitimate and really look into it. I had to go deep into this to figure out anything about Bindly. I literally had to Google Bindly scam in order to find anything, and that's when I found all of those scam review websites giving Bindly a very low score. But clearly Bindly is doing its best to make sure that those don't come up. The moment you search the company, you know they're trying. They're trying their hardest, which means that we, as the consumer, need to always be trying harder and need to be researching and keeping our eyes open and being aware.
Speaker 1:Agreed. So, Kit, do you want to share your fun fact?
Speaker 2:Okay, so queer fun facts. The Corner Bar was the first American TV show to feature a reoccurring gay character. The Corner Bar was a sitcom on ABC that ran from 1972 to 1973. And the character who was played by Vincent Chiavelli something extraordinarily Italian was Peter Panama, and so that was the first gay reoccurring character on American television.