Life Through a Queer Lens
Welcome to the Life Through a Queer Lens Podcast, where anyone with an open mind and heart can learn about the LGBTQIA+ Community from the people within it! We're your hosts, Jenene (she/her, they/them) and Kit (they/them).
Life Through a Queer Lens
EP45: Women's Boxing & Gender, and Did We Forget DaVinci Was Gay?
Have you ever tried explaining the reality of climate change to a skeptical family member influenced by media outlets like Fox News? It's a tough battle, but we're here to help! Today, we're sharing personal stories and strategies on how to effectively communicate the undeniable impacts of climate change on our weather patterns and how to counter misinformation. We also debunk the myth surrounding the Paris Olympics opening ceremony, where drag queens' performance was falsely linked to the Last Supper, revealing its true inspiration from the ancient Greek Feast of Dionysus.
Prepare to be fascinated as we uncover the deep connections between Christian and pagan traditions. From Christmas aligning with traditional pagan festivities to the striking similarities between the Feast of Dionysus and the Last Supper, we break it all down. Through heartfelt anecdotes, we discuss the importance of open-mindedness and mutual respect when navigating sensitive topics with family members who hold different beliefs. We even dive into the unexpected effectiveness of labeling groups as "weird" and the defensive reactions that follow.
In our final segment, we tackle the world of women's boxing and the controversy surrounding gender eligibility testing, drawing parallels to political debates and the nature of trash-talking. We also address the more personal and emotional challenges, such as family estrangement and the portrayal of LGBTQ+ characters in media, using "Supernatural" as a case study. Tune in for a raw, insightful discussion that spans historical contexts, personal experiences, and the ongoing fight against misinformation, ultimately aiming to foster understanding and connection.
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my allergies are atrocious, as of recently took an allergy pill earlier and it's just okay.
Speaker 2:We're kicking in, but slowly yeah, we could blame climate change.
Speaker 1:I think it's just getting hotter and hotter every time my grandmother complains about the heat, I get angry because she doesn't believe in climate change I was gonna say fox news, they're in strict denial, complete denial, yeah.
Speaker 2:So yeah, doesn't exist.
Speaker 1:Oh my god, why is it so much hotter this year than it's?
Speaker 2:ever been. Yeah, why doesn't it snow anymore? We don't get nor'easters. We don't get six feet accumulation of snow anymore, duh.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah. So every time something like extremely obvious like that is told to me, it takes every fiber of my being not to just start yelling. Girl, we all know why. Speaking of things that make us want to yell at TV screens and elderly family members I'm sure everyone has heard about the opening ceremony for the Paris Olympics and the performance with the drag queens that occurred. We just wanted to take a moment to dispel some misinformation that I am sure anyone who has an older family member or what's the word I'm looking for Like a red-pilled family member, like someone in their life who watches Fox regularly, it very much absorbs the misinformation as though it is straight fact. You feel me, if you have someone in your life who is like that and you feel like you can appeal to their logic, you feel like it is possible to have a conversation with them.
Speaker 1:It may be important, slash meaningful, to bring up to them the fact that was not the Last Supper, that was the Feast of Dionysus, the Greek god of the Olympics, because the Olympics are an ancient Greek sporting event that was entirely dedicated to honoring the gods of Olympia, to the point where fun fact they would even pause all wars, all wars, all conflicts because Greece didn't get along with each other, athens didn't get along with Sparta. No one got along with each other. But during the time of the Olympics, every conflict across the region of Greece and even other areas that would participate was paused so that the athletes could arrive safely, and it was the only thing that Olympia was used for. Aside from the priests and priestesses who lived there, those were the only two things that Mount Olympus was used for. It was used as housing for the priests and priestesses, it was used to honor the gods and it was used for the Olympics. That's it. The Olympics has a direct line to the pantheon of ancient greece. That's why that blue guy was on the table.
Speaker 2:That was dionysus yeah, so when the drag queens and the dancers lined up along the table, where did that come from? Who likened it to the last supper I have? No idea portrait of Jesus and his 12 apostles.
Speaker 1:I actually don't.
Speaker 1:I have no idea who the first Republican pundit was to come out and say that, but I genuinely think it was just like. I hate to say it, but unless you know about the Feast of Dionysus, when you look at a scene of multiple people on one side of a long table, it's the first thing your brain goes to, and the reason for that is because a lot of that imagery that is presently used in the Catholic Church and the Christian Church was stolen from the Greek pantheon, from the images of Dionysus's feast and from a Christmas tree. That was a pagan thing. We know this, guys. If you understand at all the history of Christianity, you understand that a lot of its traditions were things that were co-opted from paganism in order to give paganism less power throughout the regions that Christianity was taking over. Part of that is just the imagery of all of these people on one side of a table. It's a very powerful image and it's an image that was very common in ancient Greece and then just became common throughout Christian mythology, if you will Christian lore.
Speaker 2:Why do you think Christian holidays are all placed strategically where pagan holidays usually are celebrated?
Speaker 1:Yeah, like there is no archaeological evidence that Jesus was born in December. In fact, there is further archaeological evidence to support that he was born either closer to January or in spring.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I heard that. Yeah, like there's none. So it's one of those things where you know, if you look at that history, it's very clear to recognize one, how people mistook the Feast of Dionysus for the Last Supper, because they are very visually similar for a reason. And two, the rage was bound to happen Once you make that miscalculation. The rage was bound to follow. But if you have any family members who are at least willing to listen, willing to hear you out, that's a decent first step. Least willing to listen, willing to hear you out, that's a decent first step.
Speaker 1:But the argument that worked on my grandmother not really worked, but she literally stopped and went oh huh was the fact that if you look back to the mid to early 2000s, to every single tv show with an ensemble cast, like Lost House, grey's Anatomy they all, as a form of advertisement, did a mock of the Last Supper with the members of their cast, with their main member in the place of Christ. They've all done it and it was an ad. It was to sell themselves. It was the most disgusting usage of religious imagery and advertisement. All of them have done it. Where's the outrage? Where's the anger?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I was going to say I didn't even hear of that.
Speaker 1:Yeah, but that's because it was years ago. It was before this massive wave of rate, and even she was like, oh yeah, I like wouldn't have even thought about it back then. But she, it stopped because it started making her realize that the only reason she had to be mad at this is the fact that they were drag queens and that makes you sound like a bigot. A bigot doesn't like sounding and being called out for it's their bigotry. Also, another thing I've noticed that's been working for some reason. Just calling Republicans weird because they are Call them weird, it works For some reason. That really gets under their skin.
Speaker 2:They get so defensive about it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, they start hitting back with shit like I'm rubber, you're glue. No, I'm not, you are, you're weirder. Sticks and stones might break my bones. Yeah, bitch, bitch. I've been called weird since I was in diapers, bet yeah, get over it no literally call them weird.
Speaker 1:It works, it works. I was floored by that. I I was like, really that simple. Y'all motherfuckers can spew slurs, but you can't handle being called weird. Okay, okay, talk about a snowflake, talk about quick to melt, my God. But just for anyone who doesn't have the context of knowing who my grandmother is, because most people wouldn't, my grandmother is extraordinarily Catholic, extraordinarily religious. I live with her watches Fox News all the time. So the fact that argument, that not even argument, but that just like little, hey, food for thought, that's literally what I called it. I was like, hey, this is just some food. I'm not trying to, this is just some food for thought. That piece of food for thought really made her take a step back and be like, oh, she kept asking why did they do it? Was it part of the show? And I was like no, it was an ad. It was just an ad, it had nothing to do with the themes of the show, it was an ad. And then she, that's interesting, she didn't really know what to say from there. So wait.
Speaker 2:So you told her about the, the last supper with all the series tv shows.
Speaker 1:And yeah, they used it because we got yeah, we got into the discussion about what was happening with the olympics and stuff like that, because we just got into the discussion of how queer people just want to live and she was like, yeah, that's fair, I know that you just want to live, but and then she brought that up and I was like, but for one, it wasn't the last supper, and for two and the first part she was yeah, your mom said that too. She didn't really. She was like it's just, it's too similar, it looks too similar. Why couldn't they have done something else? And it's, there's a reason it looks so similar.
Speaker 2:Did you bring up the Greek roots?
Speaker 1:No, because at that point yeah, that's that. I just would a lot no yeah, that's what it is Mm, hmm.
Speaker 1:But that little bit about the fact that TV shows, especially Grey's Anatomy, like shows that she was a fan of, lost shows that she liked Hearing that they did that she was like okay, like just processing, yeah. Like, okay, like just processing, yeah. And it's one of those things where I even I was saying like I, one of the things I always appreciated her for was the fact that from the time I was like nine, I would go toe to toe with her about her beliefs and she never made me feel stupid. She's never made me feel smaller. She's never made me feel worse than her. She's always been really good at. I think we both have been where like we'll go back and forth and then it'll be like oh hey, do you need something to eat? Oh, you gotta. Can you get me a drink of water? Oh, yeah, and we'll make a joke or something Like it's we're able to.
Speaker 2:I feel like we respect and acknowledge each other's perspectives, opinions, experiences.
Speaker 1:Exactly, without, yeah, demeaning the other. That's great, exactly, and we've also recognized that, like 100, we are more similar than we like to think we are, and that's the thing. Y'all your conservative family members it might seem really difficult to find the thing that and, mind you, if they are like straight up horrible people, refuse to hear you out, refuse to fuck them. You don't need them, that's. I'm not saying that you need to interact with someone who's abusive absolutely not and you change them exactly.
Speaker 1:You do not have to put in the emotional labor I am choosing to put in this emotional labor. I do not have to put in this emotional labor I make the decision to. I'm not saying anyone has to, but if y'all are interested in it, if y'all crave that connection to your ancestry, like I did, because she's my only grandparent I have left my. My father's mother passed away years ago and even before she did I was trying to get information from her about, like my family tree, about anything. But she had experienced so much trauma, losing three children before passing, she couldn't, she, she could barely even remember. She kept confusing their births, like she kept confusing my oldest uncle's birth with my father's birth, who was her last born, and both of them died, so like she couldn't get it right in her head. So it's one of those things where I don't really have that much of a connection to what came before me, because of how many family members I lost either physically they died or mentally they were too far gone at a very young age. So she's like that last connection that I have and if anyone out there is experiencing that, where that like last connection to your past you feel like you have is a raging picket. It can be really difficult, but I encourage you, if you feel mentally, physically capable, only if you feel like you want to and you are able to, I would encourage you to try to find that piece of yourself that you can see in them.
Speaker 1:The passion that she has for her misguided beliefs is something that I see in myself, with my own beliefs that I do my best to base on fact and intersectionality and things like that. But that passion, that drive, is there and even like we were talking about the fact that her and I have both spent decades in survival mode just figuring out how to survive and that is also something that we are similar on is knowing what it means to be in survival mode and wanting to live. And yeah, I encourage you to try to find that spark because it exists. It's there, I promise you, because I truly didn't think it was two years ago when I moved in here. If you told me I would have found something that connected us, I would have told you're dreaming, it's there. I found it yesterday.
Speaker 2:It was a really cool moment, so it could happen, it could happen and it's cool that you're keeping the channels open for that lineage to heal. So she's older she's two generations older than you, Right? So she comes from a different time and I feel like you're doing the healing not just for yourself but for your whole lineage. So it's really cool that you guys are able to have these kind of semi-productive, in a way, conversations and relationship, Because even though you don't agree on, we'll just say most things generally speaking.
Speaker 2:Yeah, relationship Because even though you don't agree on. We'll just say most things generally speaking. Yeah, there's still this, like I said earlier, the respect, but also it leaves the channels open for you to learn other things about who you are, where things stem from, things in your family line, and that's just. That's awesome, that that takes a lot of skill to be able to like navigate, I'm going to say like waters that are really testing, like you're being tested in every sense of the word, and it actually makes you more competent as a person because you're being so challenged that it forces you to get clear on who you are, what you stand for, why you believe that to a level that you're able to be very articulate about those things with other people. So there are good things that come out of it, so that's awesome.
Speaker 1:Thank you, I genuinely appreciate you saying that. But yeah, it's. There are absolutely a lot of goods that I am noticing more and more, but oh boy, howdy sometimes.
Speaker 2:You get tested, sometimes Not saying it's easy.
Speaker 1:No, I still think about it. A Tumblr post that I saw when I was like 14 that altered my brain chemistry forever. I'm sure some of our listeners out here will very suddenly get hit with the core memory of first reading the same quote from some book where the person was basically saying that pain will get passed on from generation to generation until someone is born who is designated to feel everything too much, too deeply, too often, and they're usually the one that will heal the familial lineage of trauma and stuff like that. It was something along those lines.
Speaker 1:If anyone has that screenshot, because I'm sure one of you motherfuckers out there have that as a screenshot that you've saved. If you have that, please send it to us on whatever social media. You could send it to us on Tumblr. That would probably be the easiest, because we do have a Tumblr y'all.
Speaker 2:I would love to hear what exactly that quote is, because one of the things, the way I look at things, is that we have I call it the generational basket, and the basket is what gets passed on from generation to generation, and it has, it's filled with tools and for that generation, right from their experiences, and then it's our job, like we get the basket in front of us and it's our job to say, okay, what is what works for me right now and what needs to be evolved? No-transcript. Then the basket's going to get passed down to the next generation and hopefully one of the kids will or something.
Speaker 1:Even I've been saying all the time that, like, if I can't, don't, am not able to become a healed version of myself in quote, unquote, enough time, even though, like we discussed in our last episode about I saw the TV glow there is always time. There is still time if it hits a point where I realize, oh, kids might be out of the bucket. Kids are out of the bucket. I am not having a kid as an unhealed version of myself. I'm not passing that down and saying, okay, this is your problem now. No, no, no, absolutely not. I will be healing before I hand this thing over. So, yeah, I get that Absolutely, especially as someone who doesn't have any siblings.
Speaker 2:Yeah yeah. Yeah.
Speaker 1:And that's another reason why I think I had this idea of I have to have a kid is because after I die, there goes my father, there goes my father, there goes, any chance of his lineage, there is maybe even his name, who knows? There it goes, it's just it's gone with me, and that always felt like something I wouldn't be able to handle. It felt like something that I I couldn't do. But also I'm recognizing, as I'm aging, that it is not fair to have a kid for the sole purpose of carrying on a legacy that maybe doesn't need to be carried on. Maybe that's the point, even though his legacy was amazing, maybe it's just carried on in the trees, maybe it's carried on in a different way, maybe I don't need to be the one to pass that torch and that's cool.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think whatever you decide is the right thing.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:I don't think we have as much control over not screwing up our next of kin as we'd like to think we do, because I think, no matter what there, we all have unhealed parts of ourselves.
Speaker 1:We just we do oh yeah, that's the thing is I know like I'm never going to be like the healed version. I just more mean. There are things about myself that I recognize are not things that are good to bring a child near, plain and simply. I have things that I need to work through before I can no, no. As I have become kinder with my autism, I've also recognized that maybe I just shouldn't. Loud noises get me, high pitches get me. I will get flown into a rage if the pitch is high enough yeah the sound is loud enough.
Speaker 1:I just I can't handle it. It'll just immediately be like I need something to shut that up now and that's a problem. That's not good, that's not good, you just.
Speaker 2:You just have to figure out what's the solution.
Speaker 1:If you have, have to lean on people, or or just don't do it, and that's definitely a viable option.
Speaker 1:Exactly, and that's where even Santi and I have talked about the possibility of just fostering at some point. Yeah, definitely Not even just fostering. I don't want to put that as if that's an easier option. However, the reason I say that is because, at the very least, it would give me the time to get to a more healed version that would be capable of fostering, rather than having to rely on the quote unquote biological clock. Does that make sense, y'all? I'm not trying to go through IVF, I'm not trying to do all that. Once this body is done, we're done. So it's one of those things where, if I hit that healed version, we're done. So it's one of those things where, if I hit that healed version, realize I do still want that chance of nurturing, but the biological clock has ticked itself out. Fostering.
Speaker 2:We'll look into other options.
Speaker 1:With considering fostering, you definitely have more flexibility with, at the end of the day, once I am that version of myself, quote unquote I would be capable of myself, quote unquote. I would be capable of pretty much any age, because I know I am good with kids of any age. Like I just know that about myself. But I also know that there again, with autism, I'm still learning a lot about myself and that aspect of myself, because I'm still recently in the realm of figuring things out but and there are certain things that I used to be able to handle and do that I just don't know if I ever will be able to again. And I am slowly but surely coming to terms with certain things where it's like, oh, that might not be in the cards, no more, but that's okay, and baby might be one of those things exact part of my life right now, at 44.
Speaker 1:You're real, you're valid, I get it.
Speaker 2:I've thought about kids like when I was younger and then I got into. Just I was. I had a partner who had kids already that were older. So it was just something that I was like I'm good, I got into my career and I'm like, oh, that's my baby.
Speaker 1:Yeah. No you're so real for that.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I still go back and forth about it Because, like you said, it's something. I'm definitely a nurturing person and I love kids, but I also equally love to give them back. I don't know.
Speaker 1:I get it. I get it, I get it, I understand, I like being the fun. Aunt, yeah, yeah, aunt, yeah, yeah. Except I don't have any siblings and I don't think any of my friends want to have kids. We always used to joke that if anyone has the kid to bring around, it's going to be me at least the kid will be loved and raised by a tribe it takes a village absolutely just to bring up the other short olympic thing I was letting my mom know earlier.
Speaker 1:I was like, if I hear the words trans, scandal and olympics in the same sentence, one more fucking time this week.
Speaker 1:I'm going to swan dive, just swan dive, fuck it. But yeah, the other Olympic thing. This is extremely recent. I believe this just happened yesterday. Women's boxing was starting up yesterday. Boxing was starting up yesterday and the boxer, imani. She's an Algerian boxer whose opponent quit the fight within seconds of punches being thrown which caused Imani to win the fight Within hours of this occurring. Many big faces in the anti-trans community, including JK, big faces in the anti-trans community, including JK I Can't Write Rolling. Jordan Peterson and Logan Paul all of a sudden has decided to throw his hand into this ring even though no one fucking asked him. Because I have to add this as a fan of boxing every single Logan Paul fight thus far has been an exhibition. Fight Mans can't even really throw down. Fight Mans can't even really throw down. Every fight he has had of him versus a professional boxer has been an exhibition, which means they're not really throwing punches because they know they'd kill him.
Speaker 2:And also JK Rowling, like what's her pro-.
Speaker 1:She's a TERF. She's been a TERF for a while.
Speaker 2:She's just annoying.
Speaker 1:Daniel Radcliffe wrote Harry Potter, it's fine. Either that or Starkid. People are also saying Star Kid wrote Harry Potter, it's fine.
Speaker 2:Yeah, but such a troll.
Speaker 1:She's literally a Holocaust denier.
Speaker 2:Yeah, exactly.
Speaker 1:Literally a Holocaust denier. And that's my favorite part about living in the US is that I can call JK a Holocaust denier and she can't fucking sue me. Sit on it and rotate. Yeah, no, really, I'll tell you. Oh, yeah, just, we don't have video yet. I was flipping her off. I'm flipping off the camera as if anyone can fucking see me. Yeah, I was flipping off JK. Guys, I just realized we don't have video yet. Anyway, yeah, logan Paul, jordan Peterson, jk Can't Write Rolling have all been accusing Imani of being a trans woman.
Speaker 2:And also there's nothing wrong with being a trans woman.
Speaker 1:So yeah, exactly.
Speaker 2:It's just so inappropriately placed.
Speaker 1:It was. It's the fact that being in a fight at the Olympic level.
Speaker 2:But here's the thing Getting their facts wrong but here's the thing getting their facts wrong.
Speaker 1:Basically, because of this, a lot of people have been proposing slash, fighting toward bringing back sex testing in the olympics, which used to be a thing a long time ago. Yeah, do y'all want to know why it stopped being a thing? Is it's because so many people have chromosomes that aren't just xx or xy, it's hundreds? It's that so many of us are actually intersex and we just don't know it.
Speaker 1:Let that sink in yeah, so many people are intersex and just don't know it. Because we don't do chromosomal testing anymore, unless we have to Now, that's not really considered a necessary thing at this point. One of the reasons it was worked out of sports so many years ago is because of how many people were being disqualified for being intersex. It was happening over and it was happening very frequently to the point where they were like what's the point, can we just stop this? I think that's it. I'm 90% sure that's. The whole reason why we stopped doing that in the first place is because a bunch of people were like wait a minute, this is actually way more common than we originally thought. There's actually no point in doing this. There's actually no point in doing this, and plain and simply.
Speaker 1:As someone again who has watched boxing, I have seen Ronda Rousey's effect. There you go. I have seen the Ronda Rousey effect where a girl I get so mad at that bitch. I have seen the Ronda Rousey effect where a bitch takes a punch, realizes oh no, this person can hit a lot harder than I thought they could and they back out immediately. And Ronda Rousey's favorite thing to do is claim that the women she's going against are actually men.
Speaker 2:Yeah, they need a reason, they need a scapegoat no-transcript.
Speaker 1:And it didn't even last a round. She laid ronda out on the ring floor so fucking quickly and so brutally. It was embarrassing.
Speaker 2:That's just some bad karma, embarrassing you show up talking shit about someone. Relax, yeah. So show people. Show people, don't be running your mouth.
Speaker 1:Show people in the ring what you got, what you're bringing to the table so, yeah, I know the ronda rousey effect when I see it happening live in front of me. That's what we're seeing here. We're seeing basically an Olympic-level Ronda Rousey effect and it's wild because I'm watching the still images that Fox is posting of the Because it's two separate women who are being accused. It's not just Imani, it's also a Taiwanese fighter, I believe, who are both being accused of being trans women, as if that's a bad thing. The stills that Fox was showing for these fights. As I'm watching it, I'm like this just looks like a boxing match, but they're showing it to an audience who probably doesn't usually watch boxing. And if you don't usually watch boxing, yeah, those hits look brutal because they are, because it's boxing and because it's olympic level in the face, yeah, and at the olympic level, hello yeah, dude, it's boxing.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's brutal. It's why do you think I only did it for two years? Because I am 4 11 and I got that my shit rocked way too many times. The reason I got back issues, one of the reasons I got back issues I got my shit rocked doing kickboxing. It was technically, technically kickboxing. It was part of I was in karate and they did a six month stint where they taught us kickboxing and I was like, oh, I might want to keep doing this and I did it like a little bit in school and stuff. And then I was like I don't know about this. I don't know about this fam, I'm getting my ass kicked. I don't know about this fam.
Speaker 2:It's a serious sport man.
Speaker 1:Even like sparring, there were some instances where I would be walking away with huge bruises because little boys like to do dumb shit yep but it's okay because my teacher liked me. So when I had one too many times of that and I got the kid in the gut, he was like thank you for finally doing something wow, yeah, yeah, talk talking smack is I?
Speaker 2:what just dropped in for me was like the presidential debates. They don't actually bring any value to what they're debating. It's always pointing the finger at the other one. That's the worst. President of the United States, is this country's ever seen that? That's the worst, whatever policy on fill in blank that this country's ever seen.
Speaker 1:Rather than actual solution. Yeah, and it's just finger pointing this is crazy yeah, it's similar.
Speaker 2:You show up to the ring, you talk all this smack on somebody. There's just no respect in that exactly yeah, nobody wants to hear that. People, yeah, people be inspired. You know what I mean not, mind you.
Speaker 1:I'm not saying that imani's opponent in any way, shape or form. Talk smack, I have not heard her say anything. However, I know the effect of someone swings and you realize, oh shit, that's a lot more than I expected. I'm out, and then you play wah wah for me. Wah, I know that. Look, I know the ronda rousey. Look, you literally just started breaking down into tears. Girl, if you're so sad, continue the fight, keep going until you're bloody. Clearly you don't care that much about it, sorry that's boxing.
Speaker 2:You don't care that much about the medal, but also just because you're smaller. And if you can't throw as hard of a punch, that doesn't necessarily mean you can't win right, Because it's about skill.
Speaker 1:What's his name? Is it Floyd Mayweather? Which one was it? Where he's not that big but he's so quick on his feet and he's a fucking powerhouse? I don't know if it's actually Floyd Mayweather. I'm sorry if I'm wrong. Guys, I've been out of boxing for a really long time. I haven't even watched it in probably close to five years at this point. I think one of the last fights I watched was that Ronda Rousey fight, when I was like okay, I watched her get clocked in the jaw. I'm good, I just needed that.
Speaker 2:Yeah, you got to be swift in boxing Swift. Yeah, it's all in the head. It's martial arts, it's. I guess they're different disciplines or whatever, but it's the same concept, like with martial arts. It's all about training the mind, yeah, but if you don't have both, then yeah, and leave yourself open and susceptible exactly yeah and plain and simply.
Speaker 1:if she wanted that medal, bad enough, rather than quitting the fight and crying about it after she would have tried. She didn't even try, she took two punches to the face and said I'm done. That's not boxing, you're a bitch.
Speaker 2:So what did they tally up? Because I just I didn't see the end of that.
Speaker 1:It was literally like the scores and it was literally like she took two punches and then she forfeited, which means Amani won. Because that's what happens when your opponent forfeits you win automatically.
Speaker 2:Right, but there's a controversy Is this like open to? No the Olympics official.
Speaker 1:Yeah, no, the Olympics officials have already done interviews where they've said first off, this isn't a trans thing, I want that to be. You know, one of the Olympics officials have been like first off, I just want this to be out front and center she's a woman, she was born a woman. She has female reproductive organs. Again, not that it should matter and not that we have any fucking right to ask or know.
Speaker 2:Right, none of your fucking business.
Speaker 1:Exactly. Are you trying to fuck her? No, then stay out of her pants. That simple. Oh my God, it's not rocket science, guys. We shouldn't have to be asking these invasive questions, but unfortunately we are. But yes, she is full-blown biological female.
Speaker 2:All the people that watch Fox News all day long. They still think that it's a trans issue.
Speaker 1:Mm-hmm. Oh yeah, no, 100%. They haven't once mentioned the fact that she is a biological female.
Speaker 2:It was in 2004 that the IOC allowed transgender athletes to participate in the Olympic Games Really, but it says transgender. It doesn in the Olympic Games Really, but it says transgender. It doesn't say intersex.
Speaker 1:That's fair, but I have to read up on it. I didn't even realize that that is fascinating. But yeah, at the end of the day, either way, that is not the case here. However, there is a trans femme cyclist athlete who I'm obsessed with, whose entire goal is to win first so that she can burn a US flag on the podium. Oh God, she didn't need to sell me on it. She didn't need to sell me on it. I was already on her team, but she sold me Hook line sinker. I'm ready. I want to see that. I want to see that. Oh, that'd be so good.
Speaker 2:Anyway, yeah, so the 1932 Summer Olympics was the first instance of an athlete now known to have been intersex competing and won a medal. But back then it wasn't like.
Speaker 1:it was a conversation, we'll say If anyone would like us to do an episode about them, please let us know. That seems like that would be a fun one.
Speaker 1:Let us know y'all Excuse me, I have the hiccups. Seems like that would be a fun one. Let's know y'all excuse me, I have the hiccups. Amani. And the other fighter, she is a taiwanese boxer, lin yu ting. They are the two boxers who are at the center of this story at this point, and I do not know personally how lin yu ting identifies what her situation is personally. They both participated in, but did not medal at, the Tokyo 2021 Olympics, so they were there already. This shouldn't be an issue at this point, because they've already been to the Olympics Both of them. However, they were both disqualified from the 2023 International Boxing Association's championships after they failed gender eligibility testing, but the Olympics Committee does not go by what the International Boxing Association uses. They find their sex testing to be very archaic, and it's mainly yeah. And even on top of that, imani is from Algeria. It is illegal to be trans in Algeria. How could she be trans? How could she be trans and get to the Olympics safely, my guys?
Speaker 2:Let's look at this logically. Let's look at this logically for a second.
Speaker 1:But even outside of that, mani identifies as a cisgender woman. She does not identify as intersex. She does not identify with the queer umbrella in any way, which, like valid, khalif is a woman who is not transgender nor identifies as intersex. Khalif reportedly has difference in sexual development, known as DSDs. The organization said in a fact sheet released on Friday Having DSD is not the same as being transgender, nor is it the same as being intersex. Now, mind you, I am not personally incredibly informed about the difference between intersex and DSDs.
Speaker 1:I would love for us to do an episode about intersex versus DSDs. What's the difference? What all of that? If anyone is interested in that, please let us know. If you feel as though we are not the people to handle this topic because we ourselves are not intersex, we are both perisex. That is entirely valid. We can do our best to contact someone who is they themselves intersex and see if they would be interested in being on the show to have an actual intersex perspective on our discussion. Again, if that is something that interests y'all, please let us know. We have a little area in our link tree it's the second link down where you can let us know any topic suggestions, any suggestions like that and you can send them all in. Just be kind. If you're not kind, you're getting blocked bitch Sorry.
Speaker 2:Not sorry.
Speaker 1:Yeah, just be nice, that's all we ask. So, yeah, that's pretty much the whole situation in as much of a nutshell as I feel like I can put it in at this point without just going on and on.
Speaker 2:That's super clarifying, but also in a way, more, not necessarily confusing, but also, like you said, what are the differences? Because it's piquing my curiosity.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's really. It's nice. I'm excited to do that and to learn more about that and again, I would personally probably like to try to have an intersex person on for that. I feel like our audience would appreciate that, but I will do my best if you yourself are intersex and you are interested in coming on the show and talking to us about your life experiences all of that jazz.
Speaker 1:Please let us know. We would love that, we would love that genuinely. But again, no pressure. We understand that it is, in and of itself, an emotional and time set at labor, it's a labor. But if that's something that interests you, if that's something where you're like, oh hell, yeah, I like these people, I'd divide with them.
Speaker 2:I'd like to talk with them, let us know, let us up that'd be awesome yeah, I'm glad for her, though, that I'm glad that she is this, this woman, and that this is all going to be debunked, but and at the same time I feel pissed that we have to defend we still, we have to defend so hard people in our communities. You know what I mean?
Speaker 1:it's a double yeah, and it's scary because it is. You see how quickly people are jumping to. We need to get back to sex testing and right, yeah, and you know that if things go the wrong direction, it's going to happen. That's exactly what's going to come back is the archaic sex testing that ended up hurting everyone. No one benefited from that. That's why we got rid of it.
Speaker 1:Benefit that's another thing that I would definitely be down to do an episode on, if you guys are interested, is the history of sex testing in sports and how that was worked out of sports and the reasons why it was worked out of sports and like I know it on a surface level, but I have said I don't know all of the exact details. I believe it had to do with the fact that a lot of people were coming out with dss, with differences in sexual development, like they were realizing oh, I'm not what I thought I was, for lack of a better way to put it, I'm not. I also have the thing that I was getting mad at other people for having. Oh no.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:Ah, egg on my face.
Speaker 2:And how would you know unless you got tested?
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, and it's crazy. It's one of those things where it's harmful to everyone. It's specifically harmful to intersex people, even like trans people. A lot of the times we have a habit of pointing at statistics for gender affirming surgery and being like see, it's more cis people getting it than trans people. But what we fail to acknowledge is the fact that a lot of the cis people getting those surgeries aren't getting them consensually. They're babies, they're intersex infants who cannot consent. That's bad.
Speaker 2:The decision was made for them, yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and that is the majority of these cis surgeries that we're discussing are on intersex babies. That is an extremely important part of the discussion that is very frequently forgotten by trans people is the fact that these statistics on cis surgeries that we're pointing to, a lot of them aren't consensual, a lot of them aren't great. A lot of them are against people from our own community the I, the I.
Speaker 1:It's not a good thing yeah, yeah, and that's, it's an important part of the discussion that needs to be brought up way more often than I see it being brought up, even in queer, leftist, activist spaces. It's something that's just, it's just a statistic that's thrown out there, but the nitty gritty behind it is lost, and that nitty gritty that behind it is so important to the functioning of it. At the end of the day, it is hateful at its core. It's a hateful of difference. So they decide to operate on an infant. It's crazy. So, yeah, that's something that I definitely feel like the queer community needs to keep in mind.
Speaker 1:A little more is, when we're quoting these studies, these surveys, don't forget your intersex brothers and sisters, because they are one of us, so they're part of the acronym guys, the I. Yeah, and something that I've been learning recently there are intersex people who been learning recently. There are intersex people who identify as queer and there are intersex people who don't identify as queer. I did not realize that. I thought yeah, especially since I have heard that a lot of intersex people wish to be brought more into the queer community and into queer discussion and stuff like that. I understand that I assumed from there that they were okay with being placed under the umbrella of queer as a word, but I have been mistaken and I want to apologize for that. That's on me. I didn't realize that that's pretty amazing though.
Speaker 2:Yeah, they have a place either way, and, mind you, I whenever I use the word.
Speaker 1:Queer is just an overarching identity term. I do it with love. It's something that I do with myself. I just find it to be a very easy overarching identity term, rather than saying the entire acronym every time, especially since I will mix up letters sometimes I'll be saying shit like lbdbdd, and it's just nonsense. Would you say no, exactly what?
Speaker 1:was that yeah, I just, I sometimes just overarching it with queer makes my life a lot easier, makes just. But I understand that overarching term is not necessarily a term that everyone identifies with, like I do, and that is entirely valid and I want to apologize for that. That.
Speaker 2:That's awesome.
Speaker 1:So that was just something I thought was interesting on the discussion of intersex, but I think we've dilly-dallied enough. It's so sad we also have some Elon Muskrat news so if anyone's interested, elon recently did an interview with Jordan Peterson, who I mentioned above. He's a rather prominent anti-trans commentator and right wing commentator and is also super sneaky at getting in because he starts out a lot of his content with making it look like he's just going to teach men how to take better care of themselves and clean up after themselves. And yeah, to the point where I know good, good men who he got tricked into watching him.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I'm curious to see where you're going with this, because I remember hearing about the interview and hearing that Jordan was like speechless over what Elon was conveying.
Speaker 1:You hear about that. I have only really heard about the things that Elon was saying. So that's more what I have here is.
Speaker 2:I don't really have Jordan's reaction.
Speaker 1:I'm curious, but he was doing an interview with Jordan Peterson. Again, keep an eye on that guy, because he got some sneaky content where he will really sneak in there and make you feel like he is saying rational shit. And then all of a sudden he comes out of left field with something and you're like wait, what Can you go back? What were you just saying? Yeah, it's wild dead. His I don't even say trans daughter, because she has completely written him off. She is, but she is no contact with him. She does not speak to him. She has not spoken to him in years. She's completely changed her name. She no longer goes by his last name. So I want that to be completely and totally understood by the audience, even though I am saying the words daughter the fact that she changed her name yeah and then also no.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and also just that she's completely cut him off. I just want that to be very well known, especially because of the content of this interview. He did an interview with Jordan Peterson during which he deadnames his trans daughter throughout the entire thing. He never once calls her by her proper name, he only deadnames her. He uses her improper pronouns throughout the entire interview and continuously tells lies about her childhood to stoke sympathy from the interviewer and the audience. Things like she was really into theater as a kid and she was probably gay and she'd help him pick out his jackets and she had to go to threads and be like. None of this is true. I wasn't into theater. I didn't help you pick out your jackets. What the fuck are you on?
Speaker 2:wow, so it was fabricated so it wasn't just the content of the hate mongering and this and the stuff that he was spewing. It was also just fabricated.
Speaker 1:It wasn't true it was also just like a bunch of bullshit to garner sympathy that she ended up having to go and be like. None of this is true. And also, who doesn't love theater? Fuck off. She's like. She even said she was like I wasn't super into musical theater as a toddler. What are you talking about? Mind you, I was very into musical theater as a toddler, but I get it. I get it. Queen she. She went, uh, to threads to share her entire side of the story. I heavily recommend everyone go to her threads and read that. Her threads is at V-I-V-L-A-I-N-O-U-S, which is such a hot username, by the way. I love that. It's like villainous with Viv in the beginning. I love it. That's so cunt.
Speaker 1:Oh, it's perfect. Oh, it's perfect. That's so cunt. Oh, it's perfect, oh it's perfect. But yeah, she goes on a very lengthy threads post there explaining the truth of the situation, everything like that, completely denouncing him once again. I heavily recommend going to check that out. But in some amazing fuck you, elon news I'm sure y'all know that his ex Grimes, the mother of his most recent child's a X something. I don't remember what they named the kid. I'm not gonna lie he's also denying her from seeing this kid. By the way, he is denying the mother's right to see their children. Who does that? Yeah, because she likes queer people. That's why he's doing it what he's doing it because Grimes is Actually this little piece of information has to do with just how much she likes queer people, because Grimes didn't just leave him, but she left him for Chelsea Manning, trans activist and whistleblower, who was convicted of the Espionage Act in 2013. Oh yeah, the Chelsea Manning. Yeah, yeah, she left him for her. Get fucked, elon.
Speaker 2:Oh my god spanked yeah, no, really so.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I just thought that's just cream of the fucking crap. I love that.
Speaker 2:The entire trans community is just like Yep, we're hot Mouth on the floor like what? Yeah, Amazing.
Speaker 1:We're hot guys.
Speaker 2:Amazing. I love that.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's like the perfect ending.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:Now all we need is for him to stop being a cuck and let her see her fucking kid.
Speaker 2:Exactly yeah.
Speaker 1:That shit nothing, being a cuck and let her see her fucking kid exactly. Yeah, that shit nothing. Oh, as someone whose father fought real hard to see me and as someone who isn't super much a fan of the court's decision on my behalf when I was a child and things like that, I bring them babies home no child should be cut off from their parents no, absolutely not absolutely not.
Speaker 1:And then just the last little thing is my own little thing, because supernatural keeps ripping my heart out and tap dancing on it and I need it to stop okay, I'm gonna let you go ready unleashed I was reminded let's hear it.
Speaker 1:Oh, my god, I reminded of. So I don't even know how this made a resurgence, because I feel like this is something that we, as a fandom, already knew, but I think it was one of those things where just the realness of it finally struck. There's a companion guide for Supernatural called John Winchester's Journal, and it's literally the journal from the show. It's the journal that the boys throughout the show reference. It's that physical thing, and in it John talks about sending Dean on his first hunt alone when Dean was 17 years old.
Speaker 1:This first hunt alone just so happened to be to rid a convent, or a monastery, I believe, of the spirits of two lesbian nuns who were condemned to death and hell for being in love, and Dean is canonically bisexual. That was the first hunt that motherfucker decides to send his queer kid on alone. When I catch you, john winchester, when I catch you, it's over catching these hands. Oh so, yeah, that shattered me. I was like wait, wait, yeah, I did it for the whole purpose of being like if you come out to me, this is what'll happen. There's a really dark undertone to like when you start thinking about wait. It was his first time handling something like this alone.
Speaker 1:He had to process the aftermath of that alone and be left with the only assumption that being queer gets me in hell, like yeah when I catch you, john winchester it's game on you're gonna catch these hands, and I don't care that jeffrey dean morgan's hot, because I know he's hot I know it's a problem because they're, they know they're hot yeah, listen, the actor who plays him is fine as hell. The man needs to die. That character is a scumbag. Yeah, and I will die on that hill gladly.
Speaker 2:Oh God.
Speaker 1:I can't, I can't with that fucking show consistently busting open my heart and just being like it's the only show I have ever seen. It's the only show I have ever seen in my life that has been accused slash guilty of queerbaiting. That gets gayer after it ended and just keeps getting gayer. It keeps happening. What the fuck? That's not how this was supposed to go, man, it's bullshit. So, yeah, I just I don't know how I feel about all that yeah, you're still processing yeah, I feel like I'm going to make the clip for tiktok.
Speaker 1:Just be saying supernatural is the only show I've ever seen to get gayer after it's end like that section.
Speaker 2:That's gonna be the clip perfect because, oh, fight those creators that's good creating, though you know you're literally in all your feels at the same time. That's some good shit and that's the thing.
Speaker 1:Is they 100% like looking? The creators have said they did it on purpose. They wanted the audience that they got, which was a bunch of feral young fags.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:They wanted the audience that they knew would stay invested and be invested in, even if it was just for the sliver of what if they end up dating, it was worth it yeah, they had us hook line and sinker boy. And then they end it with sending Cass to super hell after he tells Dean that he's in love with him. Finally, yeah, god, cast to super hell after he tells Dean that he's in love with him finally, yeah, god. Literal actual fisticuffs, Outro Music.