Life Through a Queer Lens
Welcome to the Life Through a Queer Lens Podcast, where anyone with an open mind and heart can learn about the LGBTQIA+ Community from the people within it! We're your hosts, Jenene (she/her, they/them) and Kit (they/them).
Life Through a Queer Lens
EP48: Jammin' on Jewelry, Gender, and the Challenge to Lesbianism's Legacy
Ever wondered about the difference between "fun facts" and "interesting facts" when it comes to the sensitive history of non-binary individuals? Get ready for an informative episode where we kick off with personal stories of our love for making and wearing colorful jewelry and emphasize the importance of professional piercings over mall kiosks. Tune in as we unravel the unique challenges and captivating stories behind body modifications and celebrate the creativity of small businesses in the field.
Have you ever considered the true complications of tongue piercings or the cultural allure of split tongues? We'll share our personal encounters with various piercings, from snake bites to snake eyes, debunking the overrated hype surrounding tongue piercings and their impact on daily activities like playing brass instruments. Learn about the myths and realities, and get a deeper understanding of the cultural significance behind these unique forms of self-expression.
What’s the connection between non-binary identities and lesbianism, and how do critical race theory and intersectionality play a role in this discourse? We dive into the complexities of queer theory and historical misunderstandings, emphasizing the importance of educating younger generations for a more inclusive future. Finally, journey back in time with us to Shakespearean England to uncover the historical origins of the term "drag" - a delightful tidbit that ties together our discussion with a touch of nostalgia and historical intrigue. Join us for a thought-provoking episode that promises to be both enlightening and entertaining.
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so I didn't come up with a fun fact today, I figured we just kind of interesting fact and oh shit, you right, you right, you right for once.
Speaker 1:For once, it wasn't me damn, I tease, I tease, I don't care one time where I was reading a fun fact and I like I said fun fact and then I went to read it and I was like this isn't very fun. This is kind of just sad. I don't know if we should call them fun facts anymore. And that was when Van and I were recording together. I was like oh no, this is inappropriate. Exactly, I was like wait a minute, this is not fun. Hold on a second.
Speaker 1:We're going to change this to interesting, Because I think it was about the first non-binary person to be registered in the colonies and it was a very fascinating, interesting story but at the same time, like this person was vehemently assaulted throughout most of their life because of the fact that their genitalia did not match the way they would present themselves to the world. So, like, not a fun fact but yeah, there's nothing fun about that exactly but still interesting to share. To note that, like, non-binaryness has been on the record since the 1600s. That is of value to know. And even before then, when you looked at you know native american tribes. You know obviously it's before then, but I just mean, like, along the lines of colonization, you're right, as we're starting this, I'm resituating my jewelry, so Me too.
Speaker 2:I'm putting on my non-binary bracelet and my rainbow bracelet that my niece has made for me.
Speaker 1:I have an egregious amount of letter bead bracelets that I've made. Those are awesome. I also have these too.
Speaker 2:The more colors, the better. Exactly, yeah, it just makes you look more eclectic and I don't know unique.
Speaker 1:Exactly, and I love making them, so it works. I actually just made this the other day. It says Uncanny Rats.
Speaker 2:That is so cute.
Speaker 1:Thank you that?
Speaker 2:is so, so cute.
Speaker 1:And Santi got me this from Petco. It's a cat collar tag that he knew, I really liked because it was great. I will absolutely make you one. Let me know.
Speaker 2:All right, I'll support small business, because you know that's how we roll.
Speaker 1:I actually haven't made any necklaces for the business. I've made bracelets that are roach clips for like blunts or joints. I've made earrings gauge weights. I'm working on making patches and I am going to eventually start making, you know, like ear defenders, like to just like noise cancelling headphones, but like that don't actually make music. Yeah, a lot of over the ear defenders are made for kids and they look like they're made for kids. They don't really have options for adults that look cool besides just like all black. So I want to try to make ear defenders that actually look cool but they're really expensive to get, like they don't sell those wholesale.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I get that. You have earrings right, they don't sell those wholesale.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I get that. You have earrings right?
Speaker 2:Yes, yeah, I have a bunch of earrings, made a bunch of gauge weights, weights made a bunch of pins. I also have pins.
Speaker 1:No, I mean you have piercings, right? Yeah, I have my one ear. My left ear is pierced and gauged right now to a nine 16th, but it was a five eighths. But I'm really bad at taking care of my gauges, so I just kept it out for too long and it shrunk. Uh, yeah, that's what happened. So, yeah, so now I have to size it back up to a 5 8th, but it's okay, because it only shrunk one size and then this year it's just pierced, because every time I tried to gauge it it exploded, so I stopped trying yeah, sometimes the body just rejects them, you know I know my brother got his and actually grew out of his eyebrow oh yeah, it's crazy.
Speaker 1:A lot of piercings. Yeah, eyebrow piercings can be bad, especially like you do it yourself. If you go to a piercer and you want to get your eyebrow pierced and they don't want to do it, don't just do it yourself, don't, because if you could hit one nerve like I get at home piercings, I understand not at-home pierce your eyebrow, all the earrings on my right side, all my cartilage piercings I got done by a friend when I was, I know, morning nerd alert.
Speaker 2:I was in marching band and one of my friends in the color guard she pierced her own cartilage. It was the one on the very, very top of her ear and I was like that is so freaking cool and nobody else had it at the time. I know cartilage piercings have been around since like the dawn of time, but in my school not a lot of people had cool piercings like that and I just went up to her name was Karen and I'm like Karen, can you please give me one of those? And then she ended up doing two more of them for me. So three cartilage piercings, that's so fun.
Speaker 1:I love that I still have them, that I still have them. That's fantastic. It's like my mom most of her cartilage piercings were done by my godmother and vice versa. They like did them for each other when they were in beauty school together.
Speaker 2:Wow, I agree with what you're saying, though with just making sure you go to the right people. When I lived out in Phoenix, I went to a piercer who I learned they got sent to Europe to get special training to know where to pierce and where not to pierce, and that is very different than from going to your regular piercing pagoda where they use a gun and any employee can use that gun.
Speaker 1:Yeah, don't, don't get your anything pierced at a mall, even for a kid. Take your kid to a tattoo shop. I I promise you, as long as you're there with them, they'll pierce their ears. It's not one of those things where you have to be 18 to walk in the door they're gonna have a problem with. No, they, the tattoo shops, would rather you take your kid to them to get their ears pierced than go to those guns, because those guns are never properly cleaned out like any. Every kid's ear gunk, bloodre, all that is all still trapped in that gun when it's going through your kid's ears. That's just how that works.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I like the needles too, because they're graduated. They actually when they pierce the ear. It's less traumatic Is that the word Good word? It's less dramatic and they also put. A lot of times they put in a hoop, which is nice, because then you can just turn them and they heal a lot better and when you go to bed at night they don't poke you in the back of the skull or on the side of the face.
Speaker 1:So yeah, agreed, yeah. No, getting them done at a piercer is just. You just have a much better chance of them not getting infected healing properly Like chance of them not getting infected healing properly like a much, much, much better chance. Please take your kids to an actual piercer, don't take them to a 17 year old who got trained for two hours and read a booklet yes, agreed, oh my god yeah yeah, actually along the lines of piercings. I used to have my labre and my medusa, which is like in the angel's cleft.
Speaker 2:Uh, oh yeah, but in between the yeah like right in or no.
Speaker 1:Right in here it's a lip piercing, so it's right like through the angel's cleft.
Speaker 2:So it goes, yep and what's the one that goes through the nostril bone?
Speaker 1:uh, this, this one up here, right here oh, that's a septum, oh, the septum right yeah, that's just like what I you're good, okay, yeah, so the medusa.
Speaker 2:It's crazy because I've been into piercings ever, like since I could. I was old, I mean, I got my first piercings when I was seven years old, so and I've loved them, so I get that there's. There's hardly any that I don't know about, but I've never heard of the medusa.
Speaker 1:I don't think yeah, medusa's right in the middle of your angel's cleft. And one of the reasons I got it was because I really wanted a Medusa tattoo, if you know, you know, but I couldn't save up the money for a Medusa tattoo at that point. I still don't have a Medusa tattoo. It's something that I still do plan on getting. The reason I say if you know, you know is know, is because a lot of survivors of SA assault and rape get Medusa tattoos because of the story of Medusa Gotcha. That makes sense. Yeah, so I was.
Speaker 1:I wanted to get a Medusa tattoo but I just I didn't have the money for the piece that I definitely want. You know what I mean? I don't want it to just be something small, I want it to be an in-depth piece. But I wanted something because at that point it had been almost exactly a year since my assault in college, so I wanted something to commemorate making it so far and healing in the ways that I had and such. So I decided to get the medusa piercing and it fucked up my gums so bad that to this day oh yeah, because it's it's a flat like, kind of like with the lebray. It's a flat thing on the other side so it just scrapes against your top gums, like my top gums literally receded because of my medusa, wow, so I had to take it out and I was really mad man that stinks.
Speaker 2:I had the labray.
Speaker 1:I also had a labray and I had to take it out for the same reason. Just something about the placement of it was fucking up my teeth. Which is why I got these two, because the way they're off to the side and if I don't wear posts in them, if I wear horseshoes like I usually do, I don't have to worry about them touching my teeth.
Speaker 2:Yeah, Well, these two for people that are not watching. They're listening, what? Are you referring to oh.
Speaker 1:God, what are they called? I think they're called snake bites. It's the two piercings on the bottom lip.
Speaker 2:Let me look it up just to make 100% sure that I'm giving people the right information. Yeah, I had the Lebray too. That was one of my favorite piercings on the face, and then I also had my tongue pierced, which actually that screwed me up more than anything, especially as a brass player. Yeah, I know, yeah.
Speaker 1:These are called snake bites, but there's also snake eyes, which is through the tip of the tongue, and snake bites are different. Snake bites are on the lips. So just just to to clarify for people, I do not have my tongue pierced. I had it for less than 24 hours and then my ex helped me take it out because it was so swollen. Oh yeah, what happened? I have no idea how it went so wrong, but he he had had his tongue pierced for years before we met and I decided to get it done and he was, you know, helping me with the process and stuff like that. And it was less than 24 hours later I think it was that very same night and my tongue was so.
Speaker 1:He was like I've never seen a tongue get that swollen with a tongue piercing. This is actually a little dangerous. Like we need to get this out of your face. It was like I've never seen a tongue get that swollen with a tongue piercing. This is actually a little dangerous, like we need to get this out of your face. It was like borderline, like swallowing, you know, like the balls of the piercing, how, like the bar is supposed to be long to account for swelling. The bar wasn't long enough. The swelling bar it was like the balls were like resting.
Speaker 1:Embedded in my tongue yeah, like it was getting bad. So he was like, uh, let's, let's fix this, and definitely not in the most sanitary way. Don't do what I do, kids. I don't think he had washed his hands. We were sitting in his car or my car, someone's car and he leans over from the driver's seat and unscrews it yeah, seat, and he just unscrews it. Yeah, it was not great. Oh, I rinsed with mouthwash for like 20 minutes and then immediately smoked a cigarette I'm like 90 sure because of the stress level yeah yeah, no shit.
Speaker 2:Well, when I got mine done, mine swelled up. I think it was swollen for like three or four days and I went to work like that and I was waiting tables at the time and my manager and the staff, they were like how are you, how are you talking to people? And I'm like it's loud in there, people have New York accents or all kinds of accents, because it was like crew style setting. So they came from all over the world and so I was like just trying to hide it, not talk as much. But it healed up in about four days and then I went back to school and I was studying music as an undergrad and I play the French horn, so it's a brass instrument.
Speaker 2:You have a mouthpiece and anytime I would play anything, the top of the tongue ring, so the ball on top would like clank against the back of my mouthpiece and you can actually hear it like audibly. You can hear it while I played stuff. And so I got into this habit of taking the tongue ring out of my tongue, just you know, to be able to play in band and things like that, and then after rehearsal I would put it back in. Well, I was in rehearsal like every day, because I was a music major. So by the end of the week my tongue was so angry it was like fuck you and we just get irritated. So I was like I don't know how long this is going to last and then eventually I ended up taking it out because my tongue was like not having it. It wasn't having that in and out, it's also plain and simply instrumentalists, don't get your tongue pierced yeah, not even just that.
Speaker 1:Nobody get your tongue pierced. Listen, I get it, I get it. The prospects for cunnilingus almost feel worth it. I get it. However, it's not. It's not fucking worth it. The amount of chipped teeth from just around your mouth, it's not worth it. I promise you guys. Listen like, I get it, trust me. As someone who worked at Spencer's, I remember seeing those vibrating tongue rings and being like yeah, now you're on to something.
Speaker 1:Now you're on to something. However, side note, the batteries on those last like 20 minutes two seconds. Maybe they're such garbage they suck, oh God. No, I will die on that hill. Those tongue, those tongue rings ended up sucking ass. But I get it. The prospects seem like they'd be fun.
Speaker 2:They're not worth it I agree there's there's some hype about them, that's just yeah, let's debunk that myth overrated.
Speaker 1:Tongue rings are overrated. I will die on that hill.
Speaker 2:100 yeah, and they're not a substitute for bad skill, bad cunnilingus skill.
Speaker 1:I'm just saying don't be crutching on that shit 100, but like split tongue, split tongue is a vibe. Split tongue, split tongue I will never not think is a little hot, like I do. I do really like that. Look, you know what I mean. I remember like 10 years old ripley's believe it or not book opening up to that page, with the guy who was like the lizard man or the snake man or whatever the chameleon, whatever the hell he called himself, I can't remember, but he was like covered in tattoos, he had tattooed eyes and he had a split tongue and I was like I was like listen, everything else that's a little much for me personally, but that's split tongue, that's that's.
Speaker 2:That's not something to it that I didn't expect. Yeah, yeah, it's kind of like you know things that most people wouldn't think is hot, but then you're like that's kind of a vibe, like, for example, I don't know why this is coming to me right now, but people like Madonna who have like the gap in her two front teeth, like, regardless of what you think of Madonna, I think that gap is so hot.
Speaker 1:I don't know why. Yes, no, absolutely agreed. Gap yes, correct.
Speaker 2:Correct. It's like probably not good for her dental hygiene or whatever, but I'm like that's pretty hot, I'm digging that.
Speaker 1:I actually don't think that there is any, because there's there, like I think that actually became a trend for a period of time, if I'm not mistaken like having a gap between your two front teeth. I do not think there is any like harm from it by any means. I think the only reason why in the past it was something that was corrected was for aesthetic and societal beauty standard reasons.
Speaker 2:I don't think it actually causes any harm. Forward-facing look.
Speaker 1:Yeah, unless you try to do it and you don't have it naturally, oh yeah, pulling teeth out just so they shift. That's when things get dangerous, that's when it's not good, correct? I have one of my favorite shirts on today and I'm sad because I haven't even really worn it yet for this, but it's because it's been so hot, I was wondering what you're wearing. It says I believe in the Mothman. Cool, I like it, I believe in the Mothman, and it has my boy, the Mothman, on it, who is the queer icon, cryptid.
Speaker 1:Love it I the mothman on it. Who is the queer?
Speaker 2:icon cryptid.
Speaker 1:Love it I like the neon green too. It's my favorite, but do you know why?
Speaker 2:uh, mothman is the queer icon cryptid I don't, I was just gonna ask you that. Uh, I need.
Speaker 1:I need you to google image search a uh, the, the statue, the Mothman statue in I think it's Connecticut, specifically him's butt. Really, yes, because this is how he became the queer icon he now is the moth is this fucking yeah, mothman, his butt or even just the whole statue in general is very like well, I wish I could share screen, but I don't know how.
Speaker 2:Oh, of course. Okay, here it is oh, wow, oh, wow, wow, okay, wow, oh, wow, wow, okay, all right, Now I don't. I can retract my question, because that is just um. Yeah, I can just answer that on my own.
Speaker 1:Wow, yeah, it's because clearly whoever built that statue knew what they were doing.
Speaker 2:Oh my, that's a nice ass. Not for nothing, and even for you know, somebody, non-binary, that's a fucking nice ass yeah, no that's 10 out of 10 amazing it's actually so funny.
Speaker 1:I wanted to see what you thought of this because I I know you're like out of the sphere of like tiktok and, like you know, like young, which God you're so fucking real for that because sometimes it just feels like banging your head into a rock.
Speaker 2:But I also feel like sometimes I'm missing out and I should get connected and plugged in and I'm kind of teetering. So just keep that in mind, but go ahead.
Speaker 1:You're valid. But there's this discourse going around that is is is claiming very, very loudly that you can't be trans, mask or non-binary and be a lesbian because it's woman loving woman, not non-men loving non-men. What?
Speaker 2:okay, thank you. Let me process that for a second. You can't be non-binary as a female.
Speaker 1:They're saying that you can't say you're non-binary lesbian or transmasc lesbian. You have to be a woman to be a lesbian.
Speaker 2:Interesting.
Speaker 1:Which, like I, feel like if you look at the history of just queer theory in general, that's so not true. That's not how queer like bros. I need you to read a queer theory book and recognize that. That's not how this works.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so what does your identity have to do with?
Speaker 1:It's basically the whole idea of lesbian means woman loving woman. When it's like nah, lesbian really is just non-men loving non-men. So rather than saying w l, w, it's n? M, l, n, m and it's the same like that's very interesting that just has a whole other layer. It's like you're basically saying like you're just including more people. Why is that a bad thing?
Speaker 2:Exactly yeah, isn't that what we want More inclusivity.
Speaker 1:Right, like I thought that was the whole point of the queer community A little bit more room to move.
Speaker 2:Yeah, no, that's very interesting. I feel like every time we bring up a topic and we talk about it on an episode, there's another layer and another layer and another layer and another layer that I just, I mean, was wasn't aware, you know. It's just, it's crazy how deep this goes oh yeah, absolutely.
Speaker 1:But yeah, that's just like it's discourse. I'm seeing everywhere people just being like why don't you just identify as bi? Why don't you just identify as pan? It's like because, because they're not so what?
Speaker 2:so, technically, according to that, what would I?
Speaker 1:I would have to identify as lesbian if I like women basically, according to that, because you're non-binary, you can't identify as lesbian, even though you've been a lesbian for like two fucking decades. These 15 year olds are trying to say, no, you're not a lesbian.
Speaker 2:Because, according to them, it falls outside of the quote unquote definition that they're saying should be the definition.
Speaker 1:Right, when that definition is so fucking narrow minded, it's not even funny. That definition completely breaks under queer theory, which is the whole idea of broadening queer theory, which is the whole idea of broadening.
Speaker 2:So what would they propose that I would be attracted to or open to dating if I identify as being?
Speaker 1:non-binary. See, they would rather you identify as pan or bi, even though you don't like men. So you should identify as a lesbian, because you're not bi or pan. You see why it's like you guys are making no fucking sense.
Speaker 2:I'd have to simmer on that a little bit to see, like I mean, I'm with you on this, but also I just I want to try to understand a little bit more so that I can better kind of see where they're coming from.
Speaker 1:Right. Every time I try to see where they're coming from, the first thing that pops into my head is just like no, what you guys are saying is just wrong, Because you're saying that someone who is non-binary lesbian shouldn't identify as lesbian because they're non-binary, even though their gender identity has nothing to do with their sexuality.
Speaker 2:To do with sexuality. Bang, that's exactly what I was thinking right in that moment.
Speaker 1:Bang, that's exactly what I was thinking right in that moment Bang, like that whole idea of if you mismatch your socks, you understand your gender identity and your sexuality are two different things combined in many different ways.
Speaker 2:Right, yeah, it's so crazy, and especially like with all the things that we're learning, with the critical race theory and the intersectionality stuff that we just talked about and dove into the other day. There are so many layers to this, so that perspective just kind of puts more boxing around identities and like what you can and can't do, and it's like that's not moving toward the inclusivity that we're trying to move toward.
Speaker 1:Exactly, and it is absurd to see these like 15, 16 year olds being like it's women loving women and it's like have you, do you know anything about the history of lesbianism? Can you tell me who Gladys Bentley is? Because she didn't identify entirely as a woman, but she was a lesbian. I promise you that. And it's like how how much can you know at 15? They're like going tooth and nail fighting, saying that you can't identify as lesbian because you're non-binary Bitch. You're in your forties.
Speaker 2:Shut up. Yeah, I could do what. I do what I want, exactly. I do what I want Like bitch.
Speaker 1:I'm old enough to where, if I wanted to, I could eat cookie dough for dinner without having to ask my mommy Fuck off.
Speaker 2:Yeah, or have it approved by a 15-year-old? Yeah. Thank you very much.
Speaker 1:Come on, dude, what is this? It feels so very much like what I've been talking about, where it's like this whole generation of people who completely missed out on 2010 to 2014 tumblr specific queer discourse because they were too young, which is entirely valid, but rather than trying to learn at all, they just keep fighting us. And it's like, guys, when I tell you we've already had these conversations, this is what I mean.
Speaker 2:Yeah, no need to revisit that because that's already been figured out like, yeah, get on the boat yeah, so that's crazy you just blew my mind with that yeah, I had to see what you literally blew my mind. I mean, it took me a minute to process because I was like that doesn't even make sense, but, but, but wait, because, like, what does identity have to do with sexual attraction, or, or you know, I thought we figured out forever ago that these two things were like.
Speaker 1:Even all of the comments are just people being like. Oh my god, these people need to read one single piece of queer theory, for the love of god like. Y'all have just forgotten that sexuality and gender are two separate identities that are combined and fall under the same LGBTQIA umbrella. It's the definition of like. When you're talking about animals and you're talking about kingdom, genius species, you know what I mean and you break it down further. It's practically the same thing, but with identities. You have the kingdom, you have the LGBTQIA umbrella, and then you have gender and sexuality. Those would be like your geniuses. And then you have all of the different identities that fall under those which would be your species, if you will.
Speaker 2:Right.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's not that hard.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's super easy.
Speaker 2:I feel like I'm going fucking crazy like yeah, I didn't think this was this difficult I mean shit you're telling me because I'm in the generation older than you, so this is all. Even the stuff that we're discussing is new to me, because we didn't have that when I was coming out, you know. So then to hear about things that are going on, like in young queer TikTok land, it's like wait, what? Yeah, just like the weirdest. I thought we just learned this. Yeah, I thought we were over here and what happened? Yeah, why are we back there? What? Where? Where are you guys going?
Speaker 2:No, honestly, but this podcast, just the research and all the talking, the conversations that we've been having, and stuff so crucial, so essential, so real. And it's amazing because even a lot of people my age they don't understand, they don't know about queer history, they don't understand things like pronouns. And if you go dig a little deeper into certain non-binary identities, like even demigenders, people are like what is that? Like what is that? And it's so cool to be able to speak intellectually about these things now, just super fun.
Speaker 1:Yeah, no, I totally agree. Honestly, it's fantastic. Yeah, it's great, and I think it's cool to learn more at the same time but also share this thing that's been such an interest of mine queer history, specifically for so long, is really really just fun. You know, like I know you're having fun yeah. I genuinely want to.
Speaker 2:It makes me want to study queer theory and stuff. I know we're studying it, just sort of what's the word I'm looking for?
Speaker 1:Laissez-faire, if you will.
Speaker 2:Yeah, thanks, so we are. It's so fascinating, I just want to consume all of it.
Speaker 1:I just haven't really had the time or the energy to do this recently, but I plan on going into that. That queer liberation library yeah, I'm almost 90 sure that if I just searched up like books on queer theory they would have, if not something, a plethora of somethings.
Speaker 1:You know what I mean. Like I'm not gonna like guarantee because I haven't really gotten the chance to look through the website as much as I wish I did, but yes, I would guarantee that they would have something that would be of substance to kickstart yourself with. But I would say even things like Whipping Girl would be considered queer theory. The book that I broke out last episode I think it was last episode, either that, or it was the one before, I can't remember but I think that book would be considered queer theory. The terms that came from that book, like trans misogyny and cis sexism and stuff like that, like those, are terms that are presently used in modern day queer theory classes. That came from this book that was published in 2007.
Speaker 1:So I would say, at the end of the day, like we are, we just wouldn't be able to say we have bachelor's degrees. We would be able to say we studied independently queer theory for X amount of years and queer history for X amount of years, which is usually how I describe my own personal level of knowledge when it comes to queer history. I say like I've independently studied queer history since about the age of 13. So almost two decades. Yeah, almost two decades. Or when I'm 33 it'll be two decades, I think, right, yeah, yep, that's how time works, holy shit.
Speaker 2:So, yeah, almost two decades now and you're a master at queer theory, but can't add what what I'm a can't math gay.
Speaker 1:I'm a can't math gay. There's a bunch of can't gays. My boyfriend is a can't cook gay but he can math, so we'll be fine. And I'm a can't math gay. I can't math for shit. I got a friend who's a can't drive gay. I love them so much, but I'm always the one to drive us places, and it's mainly can't drive because they're scared. So I get it.
Speaker 2:I get it.
Speaker 1:They're a great driver, but they scared and I feel it.
Speaker 2:I love when there's gay in titles of things. So, for example, when I lived in Phoenix, I lived in the gayborhood and that's where most of the gays lived and umbrella term. It's like the queer people and we would chop it safe way but everybody would say safe gay. And then there was gay denny's. There was la fitness. We call l gay fitness side note, the road.
Speaker 1:You just said denny's and that just flashed back in my life. I have broken two people's denny's virginities my old friend from college and my ex. I was the first person to take him to a denny's and he still complains about that denny's yeah, it's not like gourmet food or anything, but they're open late the gayborhood, though that was awesome that's iconic. I love that. No, that's one of my favorite things reading like even parts of queer history where they talk about the gayborhoods of new york and stuff, and it's like yeah I love that.
Speaker 2:We even had in phoenix. There's a philly berthos that was in the gayborhood. We would call gay philly berth. Just everything in that was in the gayborhood had some kind of you know. It was the word gay was kind of fixed into the title somewhere.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Honestly, I love that as a differentiator, probably, but yeah, yeah, it is what it is.
Speaker 1:Yeah, no, I love that it's very camp because it it happened just unintentionally Cause that's camp, it can't be on purpose. Yeah, happen just unintentionally because that's camp, it can't be on purpose. Yeah, exactly.
Speaker 2:Camp on purpose is camp that tries too hard? Exactly yeah, and then it's not funny, you know, you take the fun out of it then it's not camp.
Speaker 1:That's the thing. Camp can't try too hard, it has to be just like deeply off, like the first roadhouse yeah it has to be, organic roadhouse is camp yeah, yeah I can see that, yeah, bird cage.
Speaker 2:The bird cage is camp. Oh my god but like it didn't try to be, yeah, if you haven't seen the bird cage, you got to see that shit listen, my dad and godmother.
Speaker 1:I feel like if I brought this up to my godmother nowadays she'd be like no, we did it, but like, yes, you motherfuckers did. They showed me the bird cage when I was like seven I think really that's hilarious.
Speaker 1:I was really young maybe I was a little older I was definitely single digits. Though I loved it was obsessed. They also showed me rent. My godmother was the one who showed me rent when I was like 13 or something like that, for the first time. She had no recollection of doing that. I told her that I watched Rent again recently and she was like what do you mean again? Who showed you rent? And I was like bitch you did. She was like no, I didn't.
Speaker 2:With our chiropractic practice. We're sending out mailers to everyone in town and there's a local theater right next to our office it's literally in the next plaza and they just sent out mailers and the woman who's in charge of the media company she showed us the theater's mailer and it had all of their shows for the 2024-2025 season and it was all like the classics Rent, west Side Story, beauty and the Beast, grease, whatever and I was like I'm going to buy just a season ticket for the whole because I want to see everything. And I got to thinking about it and I'm like Rent and West Side Story are two of my favorite all-time production plays and they're so fucking sad. They're so sad, yeah.
Speaker 1:Like so sad.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I'm just saying, I'm just saying, I'm just saying I, I hate to say it, but wow, any play and any play that takes direct inspiration from romeo and juliet and lovey boem.
Speaker 1:They're not gonna be happy that's true, that's true.
Speaker 2:But also, oh, it hits me right in the heart every time it hits me right in the heart every time.
Speaker 1:Also, romeo and Juliet has been bastardized from what it was originally intended to be. Oh yeah, it wasn't meant to be a tragic love story. We weren't meant to be rooting for these kids to be together. It was a tragic story of teenagers. It was a tragic story of teenagers. It was a tragic story of teenagers whose parents refused to listen to them and, and you know, and by the end of it, they end up dying because of it. Juliet was 13, romeo was 17. These are kids, they didn't know any better. And it starts out throughout a lot of it, I feel like there's this comedic element. And then Mercutio dies and everything changes. Everything changes when Mercutio dies and it just immediately takes on the tone of this is real life, these are children, and this is now real life, and you need to remember that these are children here.
Speaker 2:The kids are teaching the parents. The younger generation is teaching the older generation how to be accepting and how do we?
Speaker 1:try to forgive Exactly how to not hang on to these grudges until someone dies because of them, because they're not worth it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, but it's very symbolic. You're right, it's very symbolic. If we don't evolve, then we become stagnant, we die. We have to evolve.
Speaker 1:Oh yeah, exactly, as a race, a human race, outside of the context in which they were written. Even long before the present day, even in the Victorian times, they were being performed outside of the context with which they were written and, by proxy, we're losing a lot of their meaning, like how Romeo and Juliet suddenly became a romantic tragedy when it was just kind of meant to be a tragedy of teens, a tragedy of youth.
Speaker 2:Right.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:I wasn't aware of that.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I saw a video the other day and it brought me back to a class I took in college that I really wanted to like, but my teacher was a douche. But it was a class entirely about Shakespeare, sonnets and like sonnets in general and different types of poetry, and we touched on his plays a little bit, but not too much. But one of the things that we discussed was the fact that a lot of these things were written in an entirely different context than what they ended up being translated in and like what they were done in Victorian times, like even his sonnets, like the fact that one of his sonnets was definitely written for a man but was misread and mistranslated during the Victorian days as being about a woman, because they would just automatically assume it couldn't be about a man, you know.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I remember we discussed that earlier. Yeah, that's yeah Amazing.
Speaker 1:That was the most fascinating part about that class. Everything else about that class I basically blocked out of my head. I remember the teacher looking vaguely like Jordan Peterson, which kind of makes me laugh. I'm not even going to front. Not a lot, but just a little bit.
Speaker 2:Yeah, enough to make you think of him, yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah, enough that, thinking back, I'm like you know, kind of just had that face.
Speaker 2:That's funny, okay, so would you like to tell us our? Interesting fact for the day, I would. So. The word drag is supposedly an acronym for a stage direction, and it was coined by shakespeare and his contemporaries, and the acronym means dressed resembling a girl. Drag, we'll see you next time.