Life Through a Queer Lens
Welcome to the Life Through a Queer Lens Podcast, where anyone with an open mind and heart can learn about the LGBTQIA+ Community from the people within it! We're your hosts, Jenene (she/her, they/them) and Kit (they/them).
Life Through a Queer Lens
EP54: "I'm a murderer, not a monster:" Chucky and Queer Theming
What if an 8-bit Rocky Horror video game unlocked a retro adventure but was restricted by platform exclusivity? We dive into the possibilities of such a game and lament the barriers that may keep fans from experiencing it.
Our conversation shifts to the cancellation of the Chucky TV series after its third season, sparking a deeper discussion on the cultural impact of prematurely axed queer-themed shows like "Our Flag Means Death." We celebrate Chucky’s commitment to LGBTQ+ representation, exploring its groundbreaking critique of homophobia and its portrayal of marginalized experiences within the horror genre.
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so I found this out literally, I got like four separate notifications in one day from different like nerd places that I follow online. Uh, they have either just released the full game or it's a trailer that I'm not 100 sure for an 8-bit rocky horror video game. What, yeah, it's going to be 8-bit animation and I'm so excited about that. It's going to be like super retro style. You're playing as either Brad or Janet like surviving the night with Dr Frankenfurter. I'm so excited.
Speaker 2:Oh my God, that's amazing.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's so cool it either just came out or the trailers are just now releasing. That I'm not 100% sure of y'all, because I think when it does release, it's releasing on Steam only and I don't have a PC to play video games on, so I haven't been too up to date with it. Because I'm sad, because I probably won't be able to play it.
Speaker 2:I didn't realize Chucky was as big as it is. It's like looking into the notes and stuff like that. I was like, damn, I didn't know there were seven of them.
Speaker 1:Well, yeah. Yeah, it's one of the only franchises that I've seen every movie from. Like horror franchises. It's one of the only ones I've seen. Every movie that an alien and Nightmare on Elm Street. Those are like the only ones I've seen. Like all of them. It's one of the only ones I've seen. Every movie that an alien and nightmare on Elm street. Those are like the only ones I've seen. Like all of them.
Speaker 2:That's really cool. Did you see any of the TV series?
Speaker 1:I haven't, my partner and I really want to start watching it, which is why I didn't go too deeply into the like we're not going to be going too deeply into the TV series in this, because I personally didn't want any spoilers. Sorry y'all, but apparently it was just canceled after its third season.
Speaker 2:Really.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I was reading an article you know one of the same like nerdy sites that I have on my phone kind of thing and they were saying that it was. It's getting canceled after its third season, which is kind of sad.
Speaker 2:That is sad. I just learned about it. I just got excited about it.
Speaker 1:I heard like it was just getting like its legs. You know what I mean. Like people were just like really getting amped for it as it goes forward and it's sad to see, and that's just I mean. You see it left and right nowadays. Shows get started, they just start getting their like bearings on being a show and and the audience starts like knowing their characters, understanding things a bit more. The mystery starts happening like, and then all of a sudden, the execs are like no, this isn't really making us like a billion dollars, yet this isn't stranger things.
Speaker 1:So bye, exactly you know what I mean, like they want it to be like riverdale stranger things, they want it to be like these massive cultural phenomenons overnight.
Speaker 2:But even breaking bad didn't get big until it was almost over right imagine if they'd canceled that in like the second season because it wasn't doing numbers yeah, and, and you need more than three seasons to really get into the depth of character development right, they gave supernatural 15.
Speaker 1:For fuck's sake yeah um. What are we doing?
Speaker 2:yeah, even even like I'm just, this is like not queer themed, but like well, there is some in it, but with even with gray's anatomy. I didn't start actually getting interested in that until the lockdown year 2020, because I was bored but, it was already like 17 seasons in but it was already like 17 seasons in.
Speaker 1:So then you look at shows like our flag means death, which I didn't even really get to get into before it was already canceled and that had prominent queer theming, actively like out queer characters that were exploring their relationships with themselves and each other.
Speaker 1:It was canceled like two seasons in and it was doing numbers yeah, well, that's probably why it was canceled, because you know I think it has to do with the fact that queer shows that centralized queer theming and queer characters have to be doing better numbers than their straight counterparts to be seen as worth it for the hate that the studio is preparing to get by proxy. If that makes sense, that does totally make like we have to be pulling higher numbers than our cis straight het counterparts because you know the the backlash that will come from homophobes is almost not worth doing it to begin with, unless those numbers are high.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and our flag means death straight proved that like it. It just did because it was doing incredible and they, just out of the middle of nowhere, when people were. It was going viral on tiktok, people were finally getting into and they just canceled it yeah, I think extreme cost the director of the the thor movies and jojo rabbit that was like one of his things. This had big names behind it and that still couldn't save it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, insane, I feel like our culture misses out on a lot of what could be great art because of it, just because of who we are, you know.
Speaker 1:Even like the other day. There's an artist I can't remember his name off the top of my head, but he's an older man and he, I believe he's disabled and he has a gorgeous singing voice and someone was posting a video uh, using his sound of one of his. I believe it was a cover of a song that he was singing and they were just mourning the art that ableism has stolen from us wow like all of that, these centuries of voices and paintings and writing and film and all of it that will never be seen.
Speaker 1:That that that that passed with the person, all because of ableism right, that boggled my mind. That got me down like a whole, like 30 minute existential crisis kind of rabbit hole yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I can understand why, because from that perspective, it's like that was stolen from us, but at the same time, like we talked about just a second ago, it actually costs. If we're going to share what we've created, then there's a cost to that. So it's kind of an oxymoron because it's like, well, how does it cost so much? But yet it's stolen at the same time. You know, yeah.
Speaker 1:No, it's absolutely fucking mind boggling, literally, actually. It's so funny. I was just. I just got off the phone with a friend and we were talking about how, uh, in, in, in many ways, while the internet could have been this amazing, beautiful thing, it ended up just being the rise of such of like, like the fall of humanity, almost, and how like, yeah, like the whole idea of like cringe culture and how it just became mocking disabled people and how that happened so quickly. It happened so fast, like it was almost, like it was designed to do that, which it was like.
Speaker 1:Then you start looking at the, the, the sources of these things, and and recognizing that most of these people that were labeled as cringe or were labeled as freaks or they, they were disabled or they were. You know what I mean. Like it's just, yeah, and as someone who I mean look at me, I was the weird kid my whole fucking life. I was the weird kid. Come to find out I'm autistic. Yeah, oh, my god, it was just, it was disability the whole time. Holy shit, like, but you know it's, you know we were talking. He was like I could write an entire districtation about this and I was like listen, as someone who who feels like they could also, but also doesn't feel smart enough. Let's combine our powers yeah, you could, let's combine our brain powers for one dissertation.
Speaker 2:Yeah, oh man, I agree, though I think social media definitely was a platform that you know what. It allowed people to actually express what they were feeling inside and, as a result, we now know how people really feel. Yeah, unless we know that we can't correct it. We can't correct it, we can't address it.
Speaker 1:So that's the thing that was also like you look at like kids before they're introduced to any of them. You know what I mean they love everyone yeah, they're. I don't know if I actually believe in intrinsically born evil.
Speaker 2:You know what I mean.
Speaker 1:I feel like that is a very Anglo-Saxon Christian Catholic thought process.
Speaker 2:Excuse Born evil.
Speaker 1:Like the devil. You know the idea of they are born that way and there is nothing that can be done and there is just evil in their soul. But almost every time when you like actually look into that person's life, you find some of the most horrific abuses that human beings have ever gone through and you're like, oh yeah, that would turn me into a monster too exactly and of course there are exceptions.
Speaker 1:I'm not saying that this is for you know every person who has done atrocities throughout history and stuff like that. Obviously there are always exceptions, but I don't know if even the exceptions we could say were intrinsically born evil.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I don't buy it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's like the devil made me do it, Like no.
Speaker 2:I think that's just an excuse. It's a way to excuse or make concessions for their bad behavior, and they want people to believe all the narratives that go along with their agenda. It's a facade is what it is.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:It's just an excuse.
Speaker 1:But I agree very anglo-saxon christian monotheistic type of beliefs, of the idea of like there is, there is one good and there is one evil, and you are either one or the other. You are either on the side of god or you are in, you know, like it, I don't know again one of those things I could write an entire dissertation about, but we just played and simply don't have the time exactly.
Speaker 2:I was like that's a whole other topic that's gonna take, uh, a whole season's worth, I think, to unpack.
Speaker 1:Oh, yeah, uh. But in the meantime, rather than you know, diving down that rabbit hole head first and probably hitting the bottom with a concussion, uh, let's dive into chucky instead because at least, at least there was a lot of dull parts to land on. I mean I I don't know if you've seen. You know, like in 2, I think it was there's like the whole factory, there's a lot of dolls to land on, exactly yeah franchises to its queer audience, like it to this day since its inception.
Speaker 1:That's just kind of been chucky and I think there's a lot that could be said about the fact that it's like a killer doll and, you know, like a doll being a girl's toy versus a boy's toy. There's there's a lot to be said with that alone being queer theming, the fact that andy, the main character, is a little boy and he's given a doll right, which is something we'll go into. But, like from its inception, you can see that queerness in it and that pulled in a queer audience that the creators of this film welcomed with open arms. And a lot of reason for that is because Don Mancini, the writer of everything Chucky, executive producer on two of the films and director for the most recent three films and the Chucky series, is he himself gay and he's been out since, I believe, around the 90s, but I could very much be mistaken. He is husband. He is husband Jesus.
Speaker 2:He's married.
Speaker 1:He's been married since, I believe, gay marriage became legalized and they're a very, very happy, cute couple. So, yeah, that's just kind of like the overview of, like Chucky and queerness. It makes sense when you realize that one of the main brains behind the project again from its inception he wrote even the first film is himself gay. He's also really active in his choosing of casting. Very frequently he is casting LGBTQ plus icons or actors in his films, which is specifically something that you will see with Bride of Chucky and subsequent films that come after, which is just great. I love that. I love the fact that it's not just you know, I'm not gonna even say not just just you know, I'm not gonna even say not just but it's not showing queerness, it is also giving roles and notoriety and jobs to queer people. That's right, yeah.
Speaker 2:Like they're active people in society and they contribute just like everyone else does.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it, yeah, exactly. And like, and again, queer characters, openly queer characters, like queer characters. He does a really good job with infusing, making his media representative, while also benefiting the real life queer community by supplying acting roles and you know, yeah, things like that.
Speaker 2:Yeah, things people can relate to.
Speaker 1:Yeah, things people can relate to, yeah, but in the recent TV series, when asked by the boy who presently owns him, who is himself homosexual or gay, I don't know why I decided to use the whole fucking word as if this who is himself gay. When asked by this, this young man, do you, you know, like accept queer people? Chucky says, and I quote I am a murderer, not a monster, so ally, yeah murderer not a monster, so ally.
Speaker 2:Yeah, pop Valentina, I love that. I love your Chucky down the back too. No, I like that line a lot and I've actually thought about it for a good length of time to figure out. Like what exactly does he mean there? Like what does Chucky's line mean there? And then I thought about it. I'm like what exactly does he mean there? Like what does Chucky's line mean there, what? And then I thought about it. I'm like, oh okay, so this line I'm a murderer, not a monster. Actually, I think in my mind and you can tell me what you think, but it reflects the sort of like distinction between his actions versus his character.
Speaker 1:I would say that's fair. Genuinely, I think Don Mancini was just trying to give a middle finger to homophobes in the audience, Just being like look at that Chucky's more morally sound than you. Maybe look in the mirror.
Speaker 2:Yeah yeah yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:But I could also definitely see that. I just don't know, as someone who's seen, I don't know how much of Chucky's character really revolves around any form of self-reflection man's is like he's he is a monster. There's a reason I have a hammer and a cleaver and it's because these are. These are weapons that he definitely uses. I just don't know if self-reflection is really a thing he do outside of like ever. Actually, literally the first movie is him trying to take over a seven-year-old body yeah, fair, fair, fair, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:Now that you put it that way, I'm like yeah it's probably the most obvious interpretation right there.
Speaker 1:We can't edit this out. No, I won't okay, good, this is so good. I love that so much oh my god, I'm dying.
Speaker 2:Glad I can help.
Speaker 1:That was so good honestly, if you haven't seen them, I definitely recommend seeing the chucky movies. They are a really good time Like they're there, especially as they get later they become a lot less like scary and a lot more just like champ, like really champ.
Speaker 2:So I saw the first two, but it was when I was super young and I wasn't supposed to be watching them. I was in my parents' house. I used to not be allowed to watch certain movies and I would hide up in the loft. We had a loft where you can look over and I would be in my bedroom like this, at the edge of the loft, watching the movie. I did it with Stephen King's it as well. I love that. I know the first two Chucky movies are a couple years in between them, but I wasn't allowed to watch any of that when I was young and I did, but it was so long ago that I don't remember a lot of them.
Speaker 1:You are valid. Actually, there was only a couple of months in between the first two Chucky movies. Oh, there was yeah.
Speaker 2:I think it was less.
Speaker 1:Or was it the second and the third? I just remember reading at some point, when they were talking about the special effects for it, that they were pushing that shit out like hotcakes. So the way where Dawn was like I don't know what to do with the story.
Speaker 2:I think it was the second and the third that were like back to back, no-transcript, yeah. But yeah, I will definitely go back and watch the whole, because I didn't even know there were seven of them. Like I said, I was like, wow, it's amazing.
Speaker 1:Yeah, there's a shocking amount of Chucky. Chucky really do just be everywhere. There are other queer main characters within the Chucky franchise, including the Chucky TV series, whose third season has just ended and apparently been canceled after. So sorry y'all. I've also been really excited for this show, but apparently it was just canceled. I could be wrong. I think the article was from Screen Rant, if you know. You know, I think the article was from Screen Rant, talking about it being canceled and in like an interview with Don or something. I'm not 100% sure. I literally scrolled past it went no, and then had things to do because my grandmother just had knee replacement surgery.
Speaker 2:So yeah, I'm not 100% sure?
Speaker 1:Yeah, I hope I am. Keep your fingers crossed that I'm wrong, but I had seen that and I hope it's not the case. The main character is a gay man and Glenn does show up within the TV show as well or a gay boy. He's like a teenager, he's in high school. And Glenn, chucky's non-binary child also, I believe, shows up in the TV show. From what I was reading, read that the TV show is much more in your face with the queer theming and the characters and stuff like that, than the movies were able to be at their times of release. So now we're just going to go through the movies and the queer theming that's seen. So, janine, sorry if you end up being spoiled for some of the films as we're going through them.
Speaker 1:But all y'all, if you haven't seen the Chucky movies and you're interested in not being spoiled for some of the films, because we're going through them, but all y'all, if you haven't seen the Chucky movies and you are interested in not being spoiled for some of the, the queer theming and plot points and stuff like that, I would recommend leaving and then coming back. For those of you who have seen it, I'm not really going to go through like synopsis of the films because it doesn't really seem super necessary. These are pretty much cult classics. So yeah, from the first movie, queer theming, out the ass. It's actually kind of crazy.
Speaker 1:The film follows Andy Barkley who is, I believe, seven and he's being raised by a single mother and feeling rejected from his father, searching for fatherly love within the Good Guy dolls brand because they're everywhere. He's watching it all the time and it's a more masculine figure and he's searching for that fatherly, masculine love. He brings the doll with him everywhere, like to school, sleeps with the doll, very much stereotypically, especially at the time period that this movie came out what one would imagine a little girl would be doing with their doll rather than a little boy with their doll. So again, just like a especially for, again at the time, a subversion of gender roles, so it blows up and like things that andy knows a good guy doll isn't supposed to say, but because he is searching for that masculine affection and for just a father figure, rather than going to his mom and being like hey, something's fucking wrong with this doll, like at first he just does what the doll says. He does the whole nine yards and then only later, after he realizes that people are dying because of his actions, after he realizes there are real consequences here, is he like that wasn't me, that wasn't me and everyone thinks he's crazy because you know.
Speaker 1:And then in the second film this is just like a run through of the first three basically, in the second film andy is with a foster family and the the film does a. Really I personally, I mind you, I've never been in the foster care system, but I feel like the film does a really good job of depicting the resentment that specifically his foster father feels towards him, that many queer youth can identify with very much. Why does he need that doll? Why do you know like it?
Speaker 1:you can tell throughout the film it's very much about the man's here himself and even like, I think, the, the, the foster father ends up dying because he's trying to get rid of the chucky doll and then chucky's like hey bitch and and kills him wow I believe that there's I I again.
Speaker 1:It's been years since I've seen this movie so I might be a little off, but I believe that that's like how that happens. Is he's going down there to like handle the doll or something like that, and then Chucky's like handle this bitch, which is a vibe, a film cred article about the queer threads within the Chucky franchise. The queer lens is prominent when Andy finds Phil and Joanne talking about him and those are his foster parents. Phil says you have to admit he's a very troubled little boy. He hasn't come to terms with this doll thing. Andy enters the room, keeping himself hidden as his foster parents discuss his problems. The scene demonstrates queer youth being seen as troubled for acting differently than their heterosexual parents.
Speaker 1:Hmm, right, it's almost like themes of feeling like an outsider right, or questioning their identity and even his relationship with his foster sibling, like they're both very much like the outsiders of a lot of the situations that they find themselves within and then they find each other through that which again, again queer family. Feeling like the outsider within your, your your own born or circumstanced family and finding your queer family along the way that. That. That relationship between andy and his foster sister definitely mirrors the whole idea of like finding your queer family right, yeah that's a it's a great film.
Speaker 1:The second one I I need to re-watch that one I actually really like I'm like me too like for a sequel. It's really good. Also just a little fun fact in the middle don mancini and I believe his co-writer for the first film got chucky's name charles lee ray from charles manson, harvey lee oswald and something ray, who I believe was nicknamed like something strangler or something like that. But basically he took three separate real life serial killers names and combined them into charles lee ray oh my, that is a terrifying looking doll though.
Speaker 1:He stands near the foot of my bed all the time.
Speaker 2:You sleep at night, like after watching the movies.
Speaker 1:Sometimes I will wake up from a nightmare and see him near the end of my bed and there is half a second where I'm just like catch my breath, yeah whole heart attack.
Speaker 1:It's fine other than that. So in the third film happens in a military school andy is sent to by the foster care system because families keep rejecting him, which again just compounds that, that rejection that queer youth often feel from their families, and continues that theming throughout the third film. There's also this whole idea of the military school taking boys and turning them into real men and that's kind of like one of the points of it. There is only one prominent female character that we follow throughout this film who is a student there also. So that's very much like a theme that military school is the idea of becoming a man the military school can symbolize institutional oppression of queer identities oh, absolutely, even like the see the the hair cutting scene there.
Speaker 1:there's a scene early in the movie where the barber is like shaving all of their heads to be like the same like buzz cut length and yeah, that is very much like that whole idea of like institutionalizing queerness and stuff like that, like or masculinity and femininity in general. So this is where the queers really come out to play in the Chucky franchise. This is where Bride of Chucky happens, and I definitely think that one of the best decisions that was made for this movie was Jennifer Tilly. It wouldn't be her without it. She is perfect and prior to filming this movie, she was already known as a queer icon for her role in 1996 B bound yeah, which is a chisky sisters film.
Speaker 1:They also made the matrix, which is a trans allegory. So, like you know, I would love to discuss how the matrix is a trans allegory film, by the way, but I feel like I feel like that is just asking right trouble, but I want to have that discussion it's your podcast, you do whatever you want we'll see. We'll see. I don't, I don't know. We haven't gotten any hate emails yet, so I feel like that would be the one to do it right, maybe um so bride of chucky yeah, so yes, bride of chucky.
Speaker 1:The film takes direct inspiration from Frankenstein, specifically Bride of Frankenstein. From the film's title to Tiff dying in the bathtub while watching Bride of Frankenstein on TV and Chucky pushes the TV into the water and it electrocutes her and it makes hering, is because Bride of Frankenstein was, and Frankenstein with Boris Karloff was directed by a gay director and he would be outed around the 30s, the mid to late 30s, after directing these movies, and his outing would very much be seen as one of the main reasons behind the crumbling of his career. His name is Colin Clive. If you want to learn more about him, still keep listening, because he's going to be coming up.
Speaker 2:He came out in the 30s and that was the first demise of his career.
Speaker 1:It is seen as that. From what I was reading, it seemed like most of the people in the industry knew he was gay, but the public didn't know he was gay and him being outed to the wider public outside of Hollywood's sphere is what led to the collapse of his career. But he also directed things like the Invisible man. He is a very prominent early creature feature director.
Speaker 2:The difference between safe space and non-safe space.
Speaker 1:Not really.
Speaker 2:Being queer in Hollywood. It's kind of like being queer in the theater, like everyone else is, so it's safe.
Speaker 1:Yeah, absolutely yes. So Bride of Chucky follows Tiff and Chucky, both of them now dolls because of their own murderous tendencies. It be like that, trying to put their souls into Jesse and Jade, a young couple trying to leave home due to Jade's uncle and guardian not approving of their relationship. Trying to leave home due to jade's uncle and guardian not approving of their relationship which, like they, are a straight couple. But there is that touch of like you know she she wants to be with him, her uncle doesn't want them together and that could definitely touch on queer theming of of your family member disapproving of your relationship for one reason or another. But there's also a canonical queer character Jade's best friend, david, is canonically gay. The first time we meet David he is pretending to date Jade so she can go see Jesse, which does not work.
Speaker 1:As quoted from the same Film Cred article, as I read earlier, david answers Warren's questions. Warren is her uncle. David answers Warren's questions about his college plans, stating that he's set to attend Princeton on a figure skating scholarship. Stereotypes exist in David's characterization, but we see him accepted by his friends, which was uncommon in a 2000s teen film. So her uncle very clearly sees through him. He is stereotypical. That is something that can 100% be said about David's character. But despite this stereotypical, that is something that can 100 be said about david's character. But despite this stereotypical nature of him, his friends do not treat him any differently than they treat anyone else in their friend group, which was extremely unlike.
Speaker 1:I don't know if y'all remember the early 2000s, but people we're not kind to queer people in the early 2000s in teen movies yeah they were treated very differently, so that was like one thing that definitely set bride apart in that front when it comes to like the teen friendships would you say too, that tiffany's transformation into being human kind of parallels a queer theme of self-reinvention, or maybe even like gender fluidity?
Speaker 1:well, I would say definitely, like when she becomes a doll and she's put into. She's put into this hideous wedding doll and she, like, rips up the dress, she adds fish and it's like she makes this doll her. I would say that could definitely be paralleled to like a queer transformation scene. Like she, she takes this doll that she has been forced to live in and does anything she can to it to make it her, even if it's still a doll.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:I would say that definitely is, whereas Chucky is just like fuck it, I'm here.
Speaker 2:Yeah, fuck it, I'm here, you know yeah.
Speaker 1:The film also features trans actress Alexis Arquette as Damien who Tiff kills to resurrect Chucky, and I feel listen power to her. I fucking hated the character she played.
Speaker 2:You did.
Speaker 1:I hated the character she played. Every time I see that movie I'm like, oh God, this fucking, because, like the person she she plays goes by. He, him. You know what I mean. Every time I see them we're like, oh God, this fucking guy, and like you're supposed to, you're not supposed to. Like she plays him perfectly. She's a fantastic actress because, oh my god, it's perfect.
Speaker 2:It almost sounds like a queer reclamation for what a traditional family looks like. You know like, hey, we don't fit into normal structures. This, this is what it is that is seed, seed of shucky.
Speaker 1:Is that like it's?
Speaker 1:it's that really like oh yeah, because because they have a kid and it's the whole like they're not a normal fit like at adult, like they they kind of try to be. The like nuclear family tip is super into martha stewart. She wants to like make a perfect home, even in bride. She's super into martha stewart. She wants to like cooking and make the perfect home for her and her husband. And chucky just ships all over that just by being who he is as a person, because he's a shemag and a murderer and you know. So like it's.
Speaker 1:It's so perfect like literally in the climax, jesse and jade use that against them where, like she's doing the cooking and she's doing the cleaning and she, she made everything. And jesse the turns to Chucky and is like it's kind of a mess in here after all. That Chucky's like yeah, you're right, hey, babe, can you clean up? And Tiff's like, and Jade's like you just did all this work to make him a home-cooked meal, a dessert, and he can't even be bothered to get up and do the dishes and it immediately sets them on each other. They start going off on each other and it's perfect because it's a very like compact, stereotypical fight in such a queer movie it is so it's a really fun moment, like genuinely. It's a very, very fun subversion of that like consistent trope throughout a lot of like drama movies even brought into horror, brought into this like serial killer, doll relationship.
Speaker 1:It's fascinating. Yeah, I'm telling you, you gotta, I can't wait to watch them?
Speaker 1:I gotta go back from number one that is is recommended but like Brian is just, it's so funny All the way back. Those two movies are definitely the most out of pocket and almost the least to do with the story. I don't know if Andy is mentioned once in those movies Really In Seed of Chucky. In Seed or Bride. He has nothing to do with them. Weird Andy doesn't come back again until I believe Cult or Curse. Whichever one comes first, I can't remember which comes first, but it's in those two movies, those two last ones, that's when they bring the character back.
Speaker 1:But Bride and Seed are just Don Mancini having fun and it's great. I think even in the documentary I watched, Living with Chucky, which if you guys haven't seen it I heavily recommend. It's a really good documentary, especially if you love these movies. But he was talking about the fact that he was like I was just given a big budget and told to have fun, so I had fun fun.
Speaker 2:That's cool. It's cool where you know what was going on in his mind, where everything stems from you know in the writing no, it's, it's peak and it's perfect and I love it.
Speaker 1:Bride is fantastic. It has you know it's silly. It's a horror comedy. Understand what you're getting yourself into. If you guys like tusk, you get it. Tusk is nonsense, but it is fucking amazing. I'll die on that hill right so now seed of chucky.
Speaker 1:This is again we're. We're still off those rails and we're going even further. So bride of chucky ends with tiff giving birth as she dies, basically, but she doesn't actually die because she's back. It's fine, but it ends with her giving birth to glenn, slash glenda. And yeah, they are gender fluid, non-binary they are. So me for real, glenn and I, glenn, glenda and I we are one even right, we are one that that doll and me same bitch.
Speaker 1:So me for real. So glenn. Glenda's name is also a love letter to queer culture, being a direct reference to ed woods glenn or glenda, a film about gender fluidity. So like there's like so many little details in this that are just little. I don't even want to call them Easter eggs, because they are. They're love letters. They're love letters to queer culture. They're like Bride of Frankenstein, Ed Wood, they are love letters to queer history and I love that. I think that's fantastic.
Speaker 1:And Glenn is a more sensitive person, personality right like, more non-violent, whereas glenda is more chaotic, more violent yes okay which is interesting because chucky refers to glenn, glenda as he and teaches them what chucky considers manly things to do, like killing, and it's glenda who ends up being far more like chucky right. And then there's tiff who refers to them as she and try you know, it is much more like oh, here's Martha Stewart, oh, here, you know what I mean. It's much more exploring her feminine side. And, mind you, they're both still like murdering people left and right, cause that's just what they do. It's Chucky. He literally comes with his own little knife that I used for my Halloween costume one year.
Speaker 1:So it just kind of like that whole theme of the film was like Chucky trying to teach them manly things and Tiff trying to teach them feminine things and them referring to Glenda by both pronouns neither of them agreeing exemplifies that journey of self discovery and trying to figure out who you are while also having to deal with other people's perceptions of you and other people's labels that they want you to have versus who you really are. And I think, like Glenn and Glenda's story specifically is very that you know, like it's that whole idea of self-discovery coming to terms with yourself and coming to terms with letting other people know who you really are and despite their perceptions of you.
Speaker 2:Would you say that Chucky wanted more of a son versus Tiffany being more open to Glenda's kind of non-binary identity?
Speaker 1:Yeah. Even later on in the film, tiff and Chucky argue about whether Glenn is a boy or a girl. They say sometimes I feel like a boy, sometimes I feel like a girl, can't I be both? They say sometimes I feel like a boy, sometimes I feel like a girl, can't I be both? And tiff responds positively. Tiff is like yeah, we could make that work, we could figure that out. Chucky's immediately like nah, no, you know, we can't. Actually, which at this point in this in the series does make sense for his character versus tiff's, like it just does. He is a misogynist for a lot of the series.
Speaker 1:He's like you go back to, to child's play chucky versus tv show chucky. Those are two really different chuckies and I feel like people don't get that. It's like beetlejuice, like yeah, we, I know we all want a goth cat in the hat, but if you watch the first beetlejuice, that's not what he is, that's not who he is. He's a predator. He assaults numerous women multiple times yeah, another really good film it's a great movie, but nostalgic of my childhood mind.
Speaker 1:We all want a goth cat in the hat. I get it. That's not who he is yeah, good points yeah, so like chucky now v chucky, then really different Chuckies, and that's okay. Characters are meant to grow and change over time and clearly he has.
Speaker 1:Which is really cool to see, even with like seven films. And you know, like in a lot of franchises like Michael Myers, jason, friday the 13th, halloween, you see these characters, they're stagnant. They are just the boogie man, the same characters. They're stagnant, they are just the boogie man, the shape, the killer from Crystal Lake. They don't have much to them which makes sense for their characters. But it's kind of nice to see a Chucky, a guy. That's completely. He's the same soul. It's not like Scream where it's always different people. He's the same soul but he's a totally different character. Clearly there has been growth throughout those seven movies and TV show.
Speaker 2:Yeah, keeps it interesting.
Speaker 1:And I think that shines on Don Mancini's ability to write Like that. It shows that this is his baby and there is no one else who can write this like he can, because he gives Chucky the depth that is necessary to make him him.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:And also, how do you not love Brad Dourif? Brad Dourif is his voice, Like, I'm sorry, Mark Hamill you're great, but you're not a great Chucky. Give me Brad or give me death. Good point, that's a great Chucky.
Speaker 2:Give me Brad, or give me death, good point.
Speaker 1:That's my only. Chucky Seed is also known for casting a bunch of queer performers. Outside of, obviously, Jennifer Tilly, there is the iconic Pope of Trash himself, John Waters, known for cult films representing the queer community and working closely with divine he plays a paparazzi person, so, and he's great, he's fantastic he literally in an interview he was like oh, all I wanted to do was be murdered by that doll that was his goal.
Speaker 1:He wanted to be in the movie and he wanted chucky to fuck him up, and I'm so happy. How cool is that? It's a great death scene too. I'm not going to spoil it, it's a great death scene. And then we have the next two movies, which I'm going to kind of clump together because they're much more back on track of the original three and they're a lot less loud with their queer theming, though it is still present throughout these movies. The next two is Curse of Chucky and then Cult of Chucky. They are major thematic shifts for the franchise Once again like back to its roots of horror and like unsettlingness rather than more comedic gore. Like I would say. Bride and Seed have their creepy moments but I wouldn't describe either as scary Whereast curse and colt got me like there are definitely moments where you're like oh okay, that was tense, I need a minute yeah, so yeah, they.
Speaker 1:They come back to that like real root of the spooky horror film yeah curse and colt nika pierce, who fun is played by Brad Dourif's daughter.
Speaker 1:So, yeah, passing down through the family, which is really, really, really cool to see. And Nika is a paraplegic woman who is given a good guy doll, only for her family to begin being murdered around her and for Nika to be blamed, leading her to be institutionalized for cult of Chucky. So that's how both these movies follow her. Nika's mother is the first victim of Chucky and after her passing, nika's sister Barb, her husband Ian and their daughter Alice and their live-in nanny Jill come to stay with Nika and bring a priest along. During this, a conversation between the priest and Nika occurs that many queer people from religious upbringings have heard before. The priest extends his condolences, to which Nika says my mother and I left the church a long time ago. And the priest replies but not in the eyes of God. If I could tell you how many times my grandmother has said that to me, I'd have enough money to move the fuck out of here.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and just saying we're still waiting for that day, praying for it but yeah, like that is.
Speaker 1:That is something that I so many queer people with religious families that they themselves have walked away from the church for whatever reason. There is no need to mcmurphy our family members, even though I have thought about it. If you know you, I'm not going to say the real word, but if you know McMurphy also, let's be friends. If you got that reference, be my friend please. I need more friends that understand that piece of media that lives in my brain rent free.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:So a curse also hints at a relationship occurring between Nika's sister, barb, and their live inin nanny Jill, which is treated with genuine care and love, showing that Jill truly cares about Alice and Barb and feels for the relationship that she is interrupting, but also understands that Barb is not getting the emotional connection that she needs from her husband. And there's this genuine like. At one point Jill literally says to Nika about Alice all I want is for her to be happy, and that's when Nika's like okay, like, I see, I see where you're coming from here you know.
Speaker 2:So this is kind of like a hidden relationship from the husband.
Speaker 1:Yes. Okay that could be queer theming too. Yeah, it is. That's the thing, is it's a queer relationship, it's two women.
Speaker 2:But also the hiding part of it, because queer relationships are often repressed or hidden too.
Speaker 1:Oh, absolutely, there's definitely that, especially with Barb being the one to bring the priest around, clearly having her own internalized feelings about the feelings that she's having for Jill and the interactions she's having with Jill, right that's so cool the feelings that she's having for jill and the interactions she's having with jill right, that's so cool it's, it is and it it's nice because it's treated with a genuine level of love and care.
Speaker 1:That is then brought into later queer relationships in things like the tv show, where, like, you can tell that don really cares about how these characters are portrayed. He cares about his characters no matter what, and I love that as a writer, I love a writer who cares about their characters, even if they are willing to do horrific things to them, because same yeah, yeah, no.
Speaker 2:It's cool. It shows a lot of resilience to queer people and just what we go through on a regular basis.
Speaker 1:Absolutely no, 100%. And even on top of that, Curse also explores a lot of themes of disability rights and disability advocacy through the character of Nika, Her sister is consistently infantilizing her throughout the entire film based upon her disability, doubting her abilities, specifically her ability to know when she's overexerting herself, which is something that, oh my God, I feel that in my bones.
Speaker 2:Yeah, definitely a resilience thing there.
Speaker 1:Yeah and it's that whole idea of being infantilized by the people around you and having your own faith in yourself being questioned, and the moment is handled really really beautifully, like honestly, like it's a really well done moment. At least I personally feel. I felt very empowered by that moment as someone who has had their own ability to recognize when they are overexerting themselves, questioned pretty consistently due to the pain that I feel, also pretty consistently.
Speaker 2:Yeah, the fact that that's even a theme about disability rights and writing it in a way that it's advocating for that community is just awesome, because you don't see that a lot in movies.
Speaker 1:No, not even a little bit, it's actually incredibly disheartening.
Speaker 2:Yeah, agreed.
Speaker 1:Cursed, actually does a really good job of that. And even Cole, they do a really good job with that. And even cole, like they do, they, they do a really good job with these themes, genuinely. Moving on to colt, colt introduces another queer character to the series through nurse carlos, who connects with nika by talking about his husband, who is also disabled. The exchange is deeply heartwarming.
Speaker 1:It highlights their similarities and, honestly, a far more human take on the staff of a mental institution than I'm used to seeing in horror movies. That's a little note that I wrote. Like, yeah, like it's, the mental health professionals aren't really the villains here, it's Chucky, you know. Like it's not the staff, it's not, it's him, it's this little guy, it's this fuckhead, because it's a Chucky movie. So of course it's going to be him, you know. But like sure it's. It's always super easy when, when someone's making a movie about mental health and mental health facilities, to paint that facility as a monster as part of the story. And while there are certain instance, instances in which that is entirely valid, like, for example, historical pieces, because most of those institutions were horrific, you're just being accurate at that point. But if you're doing a present story, it just I don't know. It starts to just feel like, okay, these are just cartoon villains now. I think it paints an unnecessary level of fear around asking for help when you need it.
Speaker 1:And that asking for help, especially for things like suicidal ideation, mental health is already scary enough without us having to paint it with another layer of horror, even if that is subconscious.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:So I appreciate this film for that.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I was gonna say I didn't see the film, but do you feel like having it taken place in a mental institution? Do you feel like the people that were working there were questioning queer identities at all or no?
Speaker 1:no, and, like I said, the nurse there that she's, the nurse she's speaking to is gay and he's talking about his husband and you know, like there's, there is no like because it this is taking place in the present day. This is taking place long past the time where things like queerness were institutionally.
Speaker 2:Considered. Yeah, okay, yeah.
Speaker 1:I definitely don't think there is too much of that spin on it. I definitely think the point of the institution is, at least personally speaking, is similarly to the house. It's that whole idea of like he's not trapped in here with you, you're trapped in here with you, you're trapped in here with him and no one's gonna believe you when you tell them he can move and talk and hurt people. So she's just made to feel and look more and more insane insane even though this guy is an actual threat.
Speaker 1:And then patients start dying and they all start looking at her right because she's the one claiming it's the doll and you know like it's. Yeah, it is, it is a, really it's a very well done movie.
Speaker 2:It does a good job of making you feel trapped.
Speaker 1:I think that's a really good thing with the institution, is it invokes that feeling of being trapped?
Speaker 1:yeah so by the end of the film, chucky has fully possessed nika's body. He, he is, he is in her and he's here for it like he tiff's like. So this is different. He's like, yeah, kind of like, like he's kind of here for being in the body of a chick and also tiff is here for it, which explores her bisexuality. Chucky, you know, chucky comes out in Nika's body and they share an extremely passionate kiss and Tiff is there for it. And yeah, after they share a fiery kiss, chucky says so, this is different. And Tiff says works for me. They're both kind of just on board with it, which is very cool.
Speaker 1:It leaves the audience having to ponder if the consistently misogynistic cishet serial killer turned living doll, now turned young woman, maybe, has a place himself within the queer community. He finds some type of contentment in whatever body he finds himself in, because, no matter what, he's just chucky, it doesn't matter. Like there. There is a certain sense of queerness to the idea of it does not matter who or what, even a doll, who or what I am on the outside, I'm just chuck.
Speaker 2:Baby, let's roll yeah, yeah don't put me in a box, right? Yeah, it could change.
Speaker 1:I love that, yeah like so cool there's, there is like, so like, not just ally, but like gender queer icon themselves yeah, that's awesome yeah I think that that's the best way to look at that. Ending is like mayhaps and I think I don't know. There's like a consistent joke throughout the internet where it's like most nihilistic, annoying, borderline, misogynistic emo boy you've ever met becomes the sweetest trans girl in the world two years later.
Speaker 2:Mm, hmm.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah, later yeah here, you go.
Speaker 1:I'm not saying the egg has cracked, but I I I do kind of smell some yolk, that's all I'm gonna say. Yeah, that concludes like the queer theming of chucky. So let's say, you know it's, it's gay as fuck. There's a lot of subtlety to a lot of the queer theming, especially throughout the earlier films because of the time period and stuff like that. And then in those two middle ones they went a little crazy and people didn't really like it. They were kind of flops. So they kind of went back to their roots with Curse and Cult and kept it a little more subtle. But especially with that ending, I think it really ties that series, series, that story together in a nice little rainbow, ish bow, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:And because I haven't seen them, I didn't get that and I just am like damn, it's brilliant really no, it's fantastic yeah I definitely recommend seeing them.
Speaker 1:Hell, I mean, I might even re-watch them. I recommend, I think. Oh god, if I remember correctly, I believe some of them are on hulu and some others are on either hbo max or prime, for anyone out there who is interested in watching them. Slash hasn't seen them. I don't know how you made it through this episode without seeing them.
Speaker 2:Go back to one and start over, because it's been a while.
Speaker 1:No, I definitely recommend they're fun movies and they kind of just get like each one gets a little zanier, you know. Yeah, in the third one there's some moments that's like, ooh, that's a little twisted, that's a little fun, that's some sick and twisted nonsense. Love it Like it's kind of great Nice.
Speaker 2:Nice.
Speaker 1:So now, I guess we just jumped to our interesting fact, right?
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:All righty, this one isn't actually queer specific but like I'm a special effects nerd, I had to. I couldn't not share this because I love, love special effects information. So yeah, the team hired for the special effects for the original Child's Play movie built numerous Chucky animatronics for different actions and states the doll would be in throughout the film. It took six to eight different people working in total unison to make every motion. The Chucky animatronic in use made from fine facial twitches to swinging Outro Music.