EP64: Planting Seeds of Change: Activism, Queer History, and Challenging Societal Norms

In today's episode, we explore the intersection of privilege and activism, examining how systemic inequalities persist and the importance of discomfort in seeking equity. Our focus shifts from personal experiences to broader societal issues, emphasizing the necessity of engaging in activism even when it feels challenging. 

• Discussion on returning from a holiday hiatus 
• The impact of mental health on activism 
• DEI policies and perceptions of meritocracy 
• Exploring intersectionality and privilege 
• Understanding long-term commitments in activism 
• The ongoing discourse on boycotting platforms like Meta 
• Investigating the dynamics of copaganda in media 
• The significance of self-love and community engagement 

Keep loving yourself and being authentic no matter what the world throws at you!

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Transcript

Navigating Activism and Online Platforms

Speaker 1 0:00

Well , I'm happy . I'm happy to be on here now after having a hiatus for like six weeks just dealing with the holiday craziness and all the political stuff .

Speaker 2 0:09

So I was having a mental health crisis . Truly , I needed some time to just not think about anything , and now I'm thinking about everything again and it's slowly becoming too much . But we're here and we're surviving , so that's what matters . I wouldn't say we're thriving , but we are surviving , which is what matters .

Speaker 1 0:39

Yeah , you know what it feels good to be back , because even over the last six weeks that we took a break , I'm hearing a lot of conversation , especially with all the DEI stuff that's been changing in companies and things , and I've practice members coming in and they're all disheartened and pissed off and I feel like , after having done this podcast for over a year , I can speak super intelligently now about activism and what's right and what's wrong . And you know , I had a patient come in he was talking about DEI policies and he was like you know what it's better he goes because now we can just hire based on merit . And I'm like , do you hear what you're saying ? I said yes , as the cis white man in the room , the most privileged person on the planet .

Speaker 2 1:26

And also without things like that . You aren't hiring based on just merit . You're hiring based on their name and how they look , and you cannot pretend that you aren't . It does not matter if you are doing it subconsciously , you're still doing it , full stop .

Speaker 1 1:43

Yeah , exactly , I told him . I said this country is still dealing with systemic racism and it's still alive and well and we need to have policies in place to make sure that people are kept safe . You know , but when you , when you are a cis white man , it's , it's difficult , because they literally have not experienced an ounce of discrimination when you , when you look at in terms of intersectionality , when you live your whole life on the top of a hierarchy .

Speaker 2 2:11

Equal looks like lesser to you .

Speaker 1 2:14

Yep .

Speaker 2 2:15

When you spend your whole life on the top and everyone else is near the bottom or lower than you , them being brought to your level in your eyes makes it look like you're being brought down . They can't separate that other people being brought up is not them being brought down automatically that idea of other everyone equal . They think they will be brought down to everyone else's level that they've looked down upon for all their lives . They don't want that , when in all actuality it's everyone being at the same level that they've spent their whole lives .

Speaker 1 2:58

Yeah , and those people are not really willing to be uncomfortable because they're so used to immediate gratification and having everything they want at their fingertips and living that lifestyle of privilege and luxury that they're not willing to be uncomfortable to , to to fight for the rights of everyone else to have the same , yeah do you know what I mean oh yeah , you know , getting getting to the point where everyone is equal , like that , there's the whole idea of , like planting seeds of trees that you're never going to rest under .

Speaker 2 3:39

Right , that's hard , that's a really hard thing to rationalize and to accept for a lot of people is a willingness to put work into something that you're not going to see the results in . We've spoken about it in previous episodes , but , like those bridges in I believe they're in India where they stretch over these massive bodies of water and massive like chasms in the earth and they're made from the roots of these huge ancient trees . The people who started that process started it knowing that they were never going to get to cross this bridge and that was okay to them . That's what we need to recognize and start working toward thinking like is the willingness to plant seeds for a garden that we're never going to share the bounty of right for a better world for yes like , yeah , there's , there's .

Speaker 2 4:38

There has to be a willingness to realize that you're not doing this for yourself , you're doing this for people that you will probably never meet . You have to be okay with that , and that's a really hard thing to be okay with . It took me only until very recently to recognize that and mourn the life and the acceptance and the peace that I had hoped for myself in my youth . You know it's a long process , I get it .

Speaker 1 5:12

It's not easy , but it's a necessary one . I was just discussing with a friend of mine about all the things going on with meta right now and how a lot of queer people are leaving those platforms . So I reached out to the LGBT center locally in my community and I said you know , hey , I don't know if you're aware , but this is going on , a lot of queer people that I know , businesses and just people in general , or there's kind of like this mass exodus off of meta because they don't want to hang out on a hateful platform , right , and then businesses don't want to give their money to a platform that basically is full of anti-queer rhetoric and all that stuff . And so my email got forwarded to the vice president . He sat on it a week . He finally got back to me two days ago and he said you know , I'm fully validating and acknowledging everything that you're saying and I agree with you .

Speaker 1 6:03

And you know it was like four paragraphs of acknowledgement . And then at the end it said we're choosing to stay on meta because the reality is that there are LGBT people that are going to stay on the platform and we want to be able to reach those people . So we were having this whole discussion about it , because my whole point of view is that during the revolution and when things needed a dire change , you had these people that were leaders , that had platforms , that use their credibility and they were able to lead in a way . You know , like my whole thing is like why aren't they going on to Meta saying , hey guys , let's go on to this other platform , follow us there , cause that's where we're going to be . We , you know , we don't . We don't want to keep perpetuating the use of this platform .

Speaker 2 6:48

I do kind of see where they're coming from , however , because it kind of rings back to in in the , the , the early days of , you know , trying to gain wide acceptance for queer people . Gain wide acceptance for queer people , you kind of . You know , we ended up having to like do interviews with publications that weren't exactly favorable of us for the hope and purpose of them seeing us as people . Like , unfortunately , while that nitty-itty shitty , like standing with , not with , but like , and not against either , but like talking to the enemy , you know , and being willing to exist in the same space as the enemy because you know that there might be queer kids or questioning kids , questioning older people you know someone out there who could benefit from you being there , or even a homophobe that might see us as people because of their posts or right it becomes worth it .

Speaker 2 7:57

Now . Mind you , if every queer person starts thinking like that , then I think we start losing the point of a meta boycott . You know what I mean . Then yeah , then it becomes iffy , but yeah I also kind of see where they're coming from , because then there's there's this idea of so what ? We just let them win right we , I can definitely see it from both sides yeah , like we handed them twitter and now we're just gonna hand them everything else .

Speaker 2 8:25

But also , haven't they always had facebook ? Think of , like your aunt's crazy qn on conspiracies . They all came from facebook . Like , haven't they always had that ? It's such a multi-faceted issue . Personally , I deleted all my metas . I I had a poetry Instagram that I was very proud of . That is now lost to the abyss of Instagram . Rip , bitch . I miss you , but you know , I mean , I realize I'm proud of you , by the way .

Speaker 2 8:54

Thank you . I realized that personally for me it was not going to be the space where I was going to be able to grow and create real change in the way that I want to a and B . I don't know . It was just like I don't want to give a billionaire more billions , like that's why I was saying earlier .

Speaker 1 9:17

I kind of just want to like slowly separate from the internet in general , Like I'm kind of just done with it . Yeah , For me , like I can see , because I have queer patients as well I will call them practice members and some of which are business owners in our community and it's we're trying to find that balance Right . So , like you said , I could see it from both sides . Also , I don't want to give money to Metta . You know , when they're preaching what they are , I'd rather give my money to someone else . Now , like I asked my business coach , I said you know , if we're going to do a marketing campaign , what else can we do Aside from Instagram and Facebook , because that seems to be where the masses are living right now ? And she replied back and she said you know what ? Let's just focus on Google ads to get started and we'll see . You know , we'll see how that goes .

Speaker 2 10:07

And I'm going okay , like google's still a big culprit , bless you . Oh , thank you sorry . I was trying so hard to get those sneezes to go away and they wouldn't go away .

Speaker 1 10:14

You're human , oh my god but yeah , I agree , like finding a , finding a of both , but doing it in a way that a doesn't let them kick us out and B doesn't condone their behavior , right . So finding that balance .

Speaker 2 10:35

Right , like part of me wants to say that , like the answer is , you know , reconnecting back to community and that is the answer .

Speaker 1 10:43

Totally In-person stuff .

Speaker 2 10:46

Yeah , there's also like we have to talk to them , you know , yeah .

Speaker 2 10:52

Like this is going to start out sounding really stupid , but I promise I'm going somewhere with this . I was watching a stardew creator , I'm not gonna name them and they were playing a law and order and law and order stardew valley mod , which added two new police officer characters that you can romance and a whole police storyline in stardew . It was very funny . I was laughing my ass off . It was great . There was a couple of moments where these cop characters did genuine community outreach . Like there's a character named linus who lives in the woods and is knowably goes through the trash looking for food because a lot of people just throw away really good food . I get it . I do the same thing in that game . I'm constantly bouncing between guts and fucking George's trash cans . They throw away whole loaves of bread . It's good bread . I use it to make pizza and shit Anyway . So I like that's just like his character thing and one of the cops brings him in to arrest him for it and is like really cruel to him in the process .

Speaker 1 11:59

Like he's like am I getting ?

Speaker 2 12:00

arrested today and she's like not yet , and he's like he's like fucking visibly terrified yeah , and the other officer walks in and is like okay , we're not doing this , minus youus , you're free to go . We're going to have a talk and he has this conversation with her about the fact that this is not the big city . Also , big city cops shouldn't be doing what they're doing , but that's another story for another time . We can't do what we do there . We have to treat these people like community members . And she basically makes Linus a blanket because he lives in the tents and it's cold in the winter . So she's like I wanted to apologize for the way I treated you . I made you this blanket . You can wash it . When you wash it in the river , you can come into the station to dry it by the fire anytime you need . The door's open to you and you can come in and warm up by the fire and dry it by the fire .

Speaker 2 12:48

And still in the comments everyone's like yeah , but ACAB . No , guys , that's what we want cops to be doing Protecting the people , defending the people , caring for the people , not capital . That's the point of like that's . There has to be a communication mark . It can't just be ACAB . End of discussion . Yes , ACAB . End of discussion . However . End of discussion . Yes , acab . End of discussion , however . What can we do to make it better ? How can we dismantle what it is now and make something better in its place that is genuinely about protecting the people .

Speaker 1 13:25

The people . Yeah , I love that . Actually , speaking of law and order , last night when we got home from work , we sat on the couch with grandma and watched an episode of Law and Order and the whole episode was about this guy . He was a black American who was sex trafficking and doing a lot of things that he shouldn't have done . He was murdered by another black American who worked for the college , had a really good reputation , et cetera , et cetera . And then there was a male black cop and a female black cop and the female was saying to the male cops she was like I thought you became a cop to make a difference . Why do you want to throw away a good black man's reputation and career Because he ended up killing the guy who was trafficking kids and so on . She was like like I thought you became a cop to make a difference .

Challenging Law Enforcement and Gender Norms

Speaker 1 14:15

You know , and it's essentially like at the end of the episode it was the law . Is the law because it protects the hierarchy of you know . Yeah , marginalized people are at the bottom of the pyramid , right ?

Speaker 1 14:31

so it protects the top exactly protects capital bottom of the pyramid , right , so it protects , exactly protects capital , right . So she was . This cop was looking at it like she was very progressive minded and she was like why would you throw away this black man's career for doing something he should ? You know , he got rid of another person who was trafficking children and he was like , well , that's against . Well , that's against the law , that's against the law . And she's looking at him like do something about the way the law is . It's not right . It's not right that somebody be punished for a crime that they committed . Now , you know , obviously it's layered , because people , some people think like murder is never okay , right , and right .

Speaker 2 15:12

And also it's layered because , okay , so take that someone kills someone who , let's say , didn't . There's no proof , they did something bad , but they're accused of something horrific , right . Exactly , let's say someone's accused of being a pedophile .

Speaker 1 15:31

And that was the idea of all , pedophiles should die .

Speaker 2 15:35

And then queer people are being labeled pedophiles , you see ? How vigilante justice gets really dangerous , really really quickly .

Speaker 1 15:44

Very layered , yeah . The other part that was ambiguous too was did he actually murder this guy ? Because some people say he had a champagne bottle and came at them , but then there was no proof . There was no proof of that , so that part was really ambiguous .

Speaker 2 16:03

Also , side note to be murdered with a champagne bottle is such a pussy way to go Right Totally .

Speaker 1 16:06

I was like , really , that's the best you got , like , really , the point was I really respected , like law and order has come a long way since the older episodes . The newer ones now are starting to look at the way that the law has always been and they're starting to go , hey , systemically this is fucked up . We need to make a change . And it's showing the struggle even between marginalized groups , Even between marginalized groups . Right , these were two Black Americans .

Speaker 1 16:48

One was fighting for the law because he thought he was doing the right thing , and the other one is going no , that's the problem , the and archaic because you became a cop to make a difference . But really are you making a difference ? You're just following the old law , you know . And she kind of called him out and at the end I was like damn , mic drop , cause it was just , it made you , really it made people aware of , yes , there's a law and yes , we're supposed to abide by it , but that doesn't mean up in interviews with his own mouth and tongue , said I do everything I can to make the police look as good and heroic as physically and humanly possible .

Speaker 2 17:46

That's his only purpose in life , that's the only . It is the textbook definition of copaganda .

Speaker 1 17:53

Copaganda there is no Olivia .

Speaker 2 17:56

Bensonenson . Olivia benson does not exist as a police officer . I am so sorry to burst your bubble . She's not real yeah she's hot , though correct , she is absolutely . But it is important because , like I have vivid memories of telling people that I didn't prosecute my rapist for obvious reasons . Like we were in a relationship , no cop would have listened to me and they were like oh , olivia Benson would listen to you and I've straight had to look people in the eyes and be like that's not real , that's play protect .

Speaker 2 18:32

Don't look me in the eyes at that . You are living in a fucking fantasy world .

Speaker 1 18:36

Yeah , but it's part of the narrative , right ? It's part of that cultural drip of you know that in our society , where you know kids go to school , they learn a certain narrative . They don't learn about what actually happened in history , right ? They're ? They're brainwashed from a very young age . It's the same thing with TV .

Speaker 2 18:52

You know all of these shows they're brainwashing you and they continue to do that . It's just the narrative . I cannot recommend enough . There's a book that my stepdad let me read when I was younger called lies . Your history teacher told you can't recommend . Oh , that sounds fucking awesome everyone go get that book , everyone go get it and have it own it . It it's physical .

Speaker 1 19:15

Lies or get it from the library . Yeah or your local bookstore .

Speaker 2 19:20

Yes , local bookstore or your local library . Stop ordering shit from Amazon if you can avoid it yes , please , yeah . But yeah , it's called Lies . Your History Teacher Told you .

Speaker 1 19:32

I'm going to check that out . That sounds amazing .

Speaker 2 19:39

It's the perfect book . Yeah , so I was kind of looking through the documents information . From my understanding , not too much has changed . The only thing that that is different in this is it's not Trump plans to get rid of the ex-gender marker , it's he did .

Speaker 1 19:58

He did already yeah . He already signed the paperwork .

Speaker 2 20:01

That happened , yeah . So that's what that means and that's what that executive order did .

Speaker 1 20:07

Yeah , doesn't it have 30 days for us to protest and actually to go through , or is that like it's done , done ?

Speaker 2 20:14

I'm not sure that I I unfortunately could not , for the life of me , tell you I'm pretty sure there's 30 days from when he signed . It's like so because I know a lot of the executive orders are being challenged also yeah , but moment of conception is unhinged behavior . Who knew that the Trump administration would decide on ? There's only one gender . Yeah , yeah , yeah .

Speaker 1 20:40

There ain't two , there's one .

Speaker 2 20:44

It's a woman . That's fucking crazy . So hey , guess what ? Trans women are still women . We did it , guys . Sorry , sorry , that's a really bad joke , I'm sorry .

Speaker 1 21:00

No , that was great , though that was on point . Oh man , yeah , no .

Speaker 2 21:11

My trans masc ass has been struggling recently . However , my mommy I love her she's going to be listening to this . Love you so much . No , my trans mask ass has been struggling recently . However , my mommy I love her she's going to be listening to this . Love you so much . Mom , she ordered me a tea tape today , so I'm going to be able . Yeah , and it's waterproof and it's sleep safe , so I'll be able to sleep while binding and shower while binding nice , go to the beach with just bound and not have to worry about wearing a shirt .

Speaker 2 21:35

I'm so excited oh heck , yeah .

Speaker 1 21:38

Yeah , just just remember what we talked about in the in that binding episode , like the safety tips and all that stuff . I don't want you hurt you know absolutely .

Speaker 2 21:47

The good thing is this tape binding is very , very different from like shirt binding , and the reason for that is tape binding doesn't compress , like there is no compressing act , because it's literally just so . Word of the wise out there , don't press down when you're going to tape your titties , go up and out and then tape , and it just flattens them and they haveens them out , and they have sizes galore . I got the small because I was blessed with the itty bitty , titty committee .

Speaker 1 22:22

Me too .

Speaker 2 22:23

Yeah , they came over my crib and they were just like you're going to be queer , we're going to bless you .

Speaker 1 22:30

Nice , nice . Yeah , so I will forever be thankful . I haven't worn bras or anything for like two years we talked about this but like I wear a tight , like more snug , um , what do you call these undershirts like ? Like yeah , yeah exactly underneath every shirt and it's just enough . It's not super tight , but it's just enough that it snugs me so that I don't move around and I'm not getting things swiping .

Speaker 2 23:02

You know , swiping , you know yeah and it's awesome because , like you right yeah , I recommend t-tape if you're ever just like you know what I want .

Speaker 1 23:12

I want to try it .

Speaker 2 23:13

I recommend I'd love to try it where'd you get ?

Speaker 1 23:15

where'd you ? Where'd your mom order it from ? I can send you the link . I have it . Want to try it . I'd love to try it . Where'd you get ? Where'd you ? Where'd your mom order it from ?

Speaker 2 23:17

I can send you the link . I have it in my messages , but I can definitely send you the link , because I can't remember the name of the website off the top of my head fucking sweet , that's exciting yeah yeah , and previously I was wearing the .

Speaker 1 23:29

What are they called ? Like the , the fucking . Let me see if I have one . Oh yeah , these I don't know what they're called .

Speaker 2 23:39

Oh , those like nipple guards .

Speaker 1 23:42

Yeah .

Speaker 2 23:45

I would recommend hanging on to those , because nipple guards are really good for underneath tea tape , because you have to put either a band-aid or something over your nipple or you could rip it off .

Speaker 2 24:00

Oh hell , no , yeah , yeah , so like , cover your nip with some type of guard of some kind and when you're going , to know yeah , when you're going to take the tape off , you basically just like cover your hands in some type of oil coconut oil , jojoba oil , fucking olive oil will do the trick and just slowly peel the tape back while sliding your oil-covered hand to separate the adhesive from your skin . Do not rip . You will take layers of skin off if you just go to rip T-tape off . In the old days , trans men used KT tape and then companies started making trans tape , which was basically just redone kt tape yo kt tape is so sticky uh-huh sticky yeah , this is like kt tape wow , I mean that hurts , coming off like they actually recommend that you be in the shower and warm water and kind of .

Speaker 1 24:53

You know what I mean ?

Speaker 2 24:53

use the water to trans tape they recommend , rather than using warm water and kind of . You know what I mean . Use the water to trans tape , they recommend . Rather than using warm water , use oil . They literally sell it in packs with oil . So for removal yeah , they recommend using oil to get it off , because it it just especially on that sensitive of skin versus like a joint , it'll hurt a lot more , so they would rather use oil than hot water okay , yeah , because the , the nipple guards , they're fine , they work fine .

Speaker 1 25:20

It's just they kind of remind me of a big band-aid . You know what I mean . It doesn't feel , I don't know . I feel like with the trans tape it would just kind of hold things together a little bit , like , like I said , more snugly , and not feel as I don't know a good word . It just feels like I'm taping my nipples .

Speaker 2 25:44

You will feel the tape , but you'll be flat . You know , like open chest binding that you see cosplayers do . You'll be able to do that without a problem . That's how we do that .

Speaker 1 25:58

No , that's freaking awesome , Cause I got to tell you , Kit , I actually won't wear certain shirts if there's a chance that I might be too bouncy or nipply . If you will , so I will . I will purposely . I will purposely pick out certain shirts where it's very discreet and I hate having to do that . So that would be really cool to try that out , because then I could wear whatever the fuck I want and not have to worry about it .

Speaker 2 26:26

Well , that's why I'm personally so excited to show up .

Speaker 1 26:29

When are you supposed to get yours ?

Speaker 2 26:30

I'm not sure it was ordered today . I think it'll it'll ship out soon .

Speaker 1 26:34

My mom will probably let me know when you know it ships out and such , I can't wait to hear what your experience is with it today , you know , since it's been a minute , yes . Yes , freaking cool .

Speaker 2 26:48

Okay , so before we end , I just want to say real quick all of that information that we had stated we are going to release prior to the inauguration is still going to be released . I apologize for it being me . I understand that a lot of this information is very necessary and would have been nice to have prior to shit hitting the fan , as it seems to have already . You , you , know so .

Speaker 2 27:16

I get that and I am sorry . And listen , queers , we're going to make it through . We have made it through scarier and we will make it through this

Celebrating Self-Love and Queerness

Speaker 2 27:26

. These are the . These are some of the biggest fucking losers I have ever seen in my life . Must , fucking Zuckerberg , Lizardman , these are some Trump Vance . These are some of the biggest losers I have ever personally seen in my life .

Speaker 2 27:47

Yeah , and Trump's IQ is a 73 , so See , personally I'm not a big fan of IQ stuff because that tends to be rather ableist , because disabled people tend to end up with a lower IQ , not because of any fault of their own , just because the IQ test is literally rigged against disabled people .

Speaker 1 28:06

So I didn't know , yeah , yeah , literally what isn't rigged , it's like oh my God , my life . See , okay , this this is a full circle moment . So you remember when we first got on and I was saying how doing this podcast has educated me so much ? Case in point , real Case in point , real and fair . Yeah .

Speaker 2 28:27

But yeah , these guys are losers . These are the kind of guys who would just like make fun of everyone they saw in the hallway , because when they went home at night , all they could do is sit there and stare in the mirror and cry because they hate themselves . They don't know how to love themselves , they don't under , they can't .

Speaker 2 28:49

They hate themselves so viscerally and so deeply that they've decided to make it everyone else's problem . So keep loving yourself . Keep being yourself and loving yourself loudly and authentically . Be loudly queer . I wore all this shit . I was very loudly queer today and I straight up saw like people looked at me . Even my mom noticed it . People looked at me like I didn't think you guys would still exist . I didn't think I would have to see you anymore . They they think that we're just gonna go back into hiding because we're scared . Don't love yourself loudly . Watch it get under their skin because they physically can't do it . They can't love themselves .

Speaker 1 29:43

So keep loving you , because you're fucking awesome and you got this it's a true statement , because if they did love themselves , then all they would do is spread love or they would just not be bothering everyone and just living their own lives and trying to make the world a better place .

Speaker 2 30:00

Like you , don't love yourself . If you spread this much hate , trust it . Trust in that . Trust in that , from someone who was raised by someone who was only now learning to love themselves , I , I see you , dad . They do it because they don't like themselves and maybe they'll learn to love themselves I'm happy he is and maybe they won't .

Speaker 1 30:22

And if they don't , kick them to the fucking , my pile of Zine printouts I have 60 pieces of paper here I found one on Abraham Lincoln . I don't know if we ever shared one on him before .

Speaker 2 30:47

I don't think we have Go for it .

Speaker 1 30:50

Okay . So here's the interesting fact . It could maybe even be a fun fact , we'll see . So honest Abe Abraham Lincoln . He was big on bed sharing and before becoming president he shared a bed with Joshua Fry Speed for several years and he had intimate relationships with at least four men throughout his life . During the Civil War , lincoln would often share a bed with military captain David Deckerson , who also slept in the president's nightshirt .

Speaker 2 31:16

You know , actually I just recently learned about there's this book called Secret City the Hidden History of Gay Washington by James Kirchick . Seriously , yeah , the book utilizes declassified documents to explore how queer life has impacted the world of Washington since the tragic story of Sumner Wells . And Sumner Wells was FDR's brilliant government advisor who was the center of what was at the time considered one of the largest scandals in American history . Thank you ,