Running Water Podcast with Jordan Budd

Tripods and Heads with Mark Denham

• Jordan Budd • Episode 8

Share episode

Send us a text

This week we're joined by Mark Denham of Outdoorsmans. We're discussing their new generation 2 of heads, carbon fiber tripods and getting that optic balanced on your tripod. 

For all of Outdoorsman's products visit, https://www.outdoorsmans.com. 

Window mount - 2:30

Gen 2 heads and Plates - 4:30

Carbon Fiber vs Aluminum - 17:00

Inegra - 28:45

Alternative tripods - 39:00

Solid Recommendation - 42:45

Rifes on tripods - 46:30

Balance your Optic! - 57:00

Trade in Program - 1:01:00


Speaker 1:

We have Mark Denimon without doorsmans and we're going to talk tripods and all kinds of stuff. What's going on, man?

Speaker 2:

Absolutely not much. Jordan, how are you? It's been a while.

Speaker 1:

I know I'm actually headed your direction here Saturday, I think. We're going to head down for a week and try to do the over the counter mule deer situation.

Speaker 2:

That's always interesting. It's always fun. My dad's leaving next Tuesday and he's going to be doing. They're probably going to end up chasing Coos deer, like they always do but, otc, you always have the option of saying, oh yeah, I just didn't see any of these, I was hunting Coos deer. I didn't see any Coos deer and you're like, nah, you were hunting mule deer and you just couldn't get it done. But no, it's a fun time in Arizona, otc, it's. Things get interesting.

Speaker 1:

Everybody that I guess doesn't know or has been living under a rock. Can you just give like a little 10,000 foot view on outdoorsmans?

Speaker 2:

Absolutely so. Outdoorsmans is a backpacks, optics and tripod company. Those are our three main staples. We always call ourselves the one stop shop for the gear for the Western Hunter. We have been in business since 1982 and we have been producing the products that everybody is familiar with our tripods and backpacks for about 23, 24 years now, starting in about 1999. We have always been focused on high end, extremely niche products for the Western Hunter and when you imagine Western hunting big, big mountains and glass and really far and being super light that's where we're trying to be the masters of those products. So tripods are going to be probably the one thing we're most known for.

Speaker 2:

And then all of their accompanying components, binocular adapters and any type of adapters for cameras and rifles and all those types of things. So yeah, we are the gear for the Western Hunter.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, you guys undoubtedly, in my opinion, make the greatest window mount system known to man.

Speaker 2:

Thank you. Thank you, that's a pain point for a lot of people. I like that you bring that up because it is. It's an interesting system because it is one of the only things that we make that is proprietary technically and has to be used with our products. We normally stray very far away from that. We normally try to stay as universal as possible because we don't want to force people to purchase things If they already got something that could work or not. We don't want to be like I know you got to buy this part if you want to use that. The window mount is that one part, but we think it's for a very good reason, because it minimizes the whole system by a ton when you can just have that one tiny little window mount and then slide our pan head right on. The pan head is the one that it works the best with.

Speaker 1:

I know you're a fan of the pan head. I've got mine right here. We'll have video on this thing too. But I like to set mine up with the little quick adapter that's on the tripod and you slide the pan head off, or whatever head you're using, and you see the little dovetail deal. Then the window mount portion will have this side on it. Then you slide off your head from the tripod, slide it onto the window mount and you're like golden. How many times have you seen people with their spotting scopes and their laps, with quarters in their hands, trying to spin the old one off to put it onto their window mount and then they lose their other one and oh man.

Speaker 2:

It's plates and things like that are. They're tough because they can ruin things. Either losing one or not having a plate on one thing can really really ruin a hunt. It may not be the one thing that makes you unsuccessful, but it's going to be the one thing that really pisses you off. You forgot a little plate. That's $19 or $20 and you don't have it.

Speaker 2:

That little dovetail system that you're seeing. That is the proprietary. We call it outdoorsman's style adapter, outdoorsman's plates. That is proprietary to us and we're definitely going to talk about it today. But we are slowly moving away from that proprietary attachment in our products that should be used with tons of other products.

Speaker 2:

The window mount has gone to a Gen 2 of the dual system, which is awesome. I think we are going to see some people use the ARCA functionality of the window mount, but mostly we're expecting it to remain kind of an outdoorsman's only type of product, the window mount specifically, everything else. We are moving very, very quickly in the direction of whole universitality or whatever you want to call it. But if you want to mount it on a tripod, we can mount it on a tripod. We can help you do that, no matter what type of product it is, we want you to be able to put it on top of one of our tripods. I think that's a pretty simple concept that some other companies stray away from Manfrotto is one that we have kind of a pain point with.

Speaker 2:

Currently Everybody's moving to ARCA. We aren't the type of people to sit back and say like, oh no, you have to use our system, ours is better. For whatever reason, we see the industry going this direction, we would much rather be a contributing part of the industry than sit back and try to force people to use a product that isn't going to be compatible with their buddies stuff and with other stuff. 10 years down the road. Arca is here to stay and it's a great system. It's really, really what we're going for right now.

Speaker 1:

So, yeah, just the gen two of everything. As a person that carries a camera all the time, as well as optics and all that, being able to put your camera with the ARCA adapter that is always on like a peak designs clip on my backpack strap and then go right into the head and then all of the things that have my outdoors was played on them still work in the same head, or I like Jimmy Rigdon adapter, as many people did, and I lost multiple ones of those and now I don't have to keep track of them anymore. It's all in the same thing.

Speaker 2:

It's a very, very simple change. I always like to say simple, not easy, is a term I use constantly because I usually I downplay things like oh yeah, that's simple. It is simple. The concept isn't crazy. It was a little difficult to get everything right but, like on the notes you sent over, you ask him like who thought?

Speaker 1:

that.

Speaker 2:

And that was all. That idea was all our manufacturing partner at Rim Country Manufacturing. We have an amazing partnership with those guys. They do all of our aluminum manufacturing for our tripod components and things like that and they are very, very smart guys. So they approached us with the idea of that type of system we had been talking about.

Speaker 2:

When do we ever make this switch to ARCA? Should we do this? And we've been talking about it for a while and one day I can't even remember how it got brought up, but he's like I think we can just do both and I was like, well, why? And he's like, well, I mean, we've got 20 years of customers that have our current parts and we're hoping to have way more than 20 years of customers ahead of us that are going to use ARCA. They've already got ARCA, or that's just the way the industry is going. And he's like we kind of have to take care of both of those customers.

Speaker 2:

And if we just say one day we're switching over everything to ARCA and we never offer another product ever again, with the outdoors and style, that causes just a kind of a crappy pain point for customers. I've dealt with it with companies before where I won't call them out, but I've dealt with companies before that I know the reason that they discontinued this certain product, but I have other products currently that need that thing that you just discontinued, and so now I have to. Now, instead of purchasing another $70 part, I have to replace every single part I've got already, and it's 450 bucks instead of just like the 70 for the one part, and I'm like that's kind of crappy. That's a crappy feeling, because you had already invested that money into the company. And then they said, oh sorry, we thought of something better. You got to buy it all again. And we're like God, that's kind of tough, and so we wanted to avoid that as much as possible.

Speaker 2:

And as soon as he thought of this idea, we're like let's, let's draw that thing up. And it turned out. It turned out great. Yeah.

Speaker 2:

Very, very happy. That is very, very close to revision. One of that design I mean we did not change it very much from the original design and it turned out just great. I mean, when we were using it for during the prototype stages, I was like I don't know how you could make this. I don't know why this feels so much better than that little wing nut.

Speaker 1:

Oh yeah.

Speaker 2:

But it's just so much quicker, yeah, so it's a we're very proud of that and it's a simple, not easy thing that you know. We're everybody's like ah, it's not that big of a deal, and we're like I just use it once. Like, if you've used our older products and use this one, you'll see like you'll have a little smile on your face for a second and be like ah, it's kind of cool. So they did an amazing job with that. Yeah.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, like you're saying the wing nut deal I mean every head pretty much has that where you screw it on to some point. But your guys is the new gen two has a little lever and when that lever is locked on, no, that's not falling out Like you can walk with it over your shoulder and not feel like it's going to fall. You know your optic is going to fall and break off or you know, break or whatever. And a lot of optic companies now with their new releases and I think even revised old leat releases, they all have ARCA already on the plate. It's not like you need to put another adapter on the plate. The plate is ARCA already.

Speaker 2:

Yep, yeah, I mean that's, that's super convenient and we, we loved when they started doing that. And you know it's sometimes a product will come out and you're like, dang, I wish they would have. I wish they would have put that on there, because it does. It makes things a lot easier and it's just. Another great thing is you forget that plate and you're not a hundred percent screwed. You know if, if you can, just, you know, maybe it's like a, you know a big ATX 95 or 115, that's definitely not the balance point where that foot is, and so you're not going to have the best glassing experience, but it's better than nothing. You can at least attach it to a tripod. So you know it's, that's definitely nice.

Speaker 2:

But the universal that's a. It's an interesting system that we decided to go with. And instead of going with like a adjustable quick release or an adjustable quick detach system, we went with as universal as we could possibly make it. So those measurements on that thing and that cam is not adjustable. You cannot change the distance on those teeth like you could with like a Picatinny quick release adapter is pretty common. You know where you push in, twist it tighter and close it. We decided to go with their. They're called Belleville washers and it's a constant pressure across the entire travel of the, of the of the actual jaws. So no matter how oversized or undersized that plate is, it will provide the same amount of clamping pressure, no matter what If the part is super undersized or super oversized. That's where things get a little interesting and unfortunately, with a lot of the mass manufacturing happening, we can run into that every once in a while. But 99% of things it's going to clamp on there and it ain't going anywhere. It is locked in there.

Speaker 1:

So we really like that system. Yeah, and head wise, you did the gen two to all the heads.

Speaker 2:

Yes. So right now, the way, the way we had it planned internally, was the three. We like to think of them as the three flagship heads the pistol grip, micro panhead and panhead. Those were all going to be released right around the same time. We tried to cromp them up as close as possible and it ended up being a couple months between the panhead release and the micro panhead and pistol grip. And then the fluid head is the only tripod head that we produce currently.

Speaker 2:

That has not got its gen two makeover quite yet. That is planned. We're excited about it. We're really excited about it. It's an undertaking. That is a big head and it took us a while to design that the first time. And these revisions are going to be larger than just the gen two of the panhead and the pistol grip of micro.

Speaker 2:

We are going to hopefully redesign that from almost the ground up to improve upon what it is currently, because I mean we will be the first ones to admit I hope we never make a perfect product, because that means we can't make any products anymore. And I know it's a. It's such a cliche to say, oh, you'll never be perfect, or this is an, it's never perfect, we'll keep improving on it. But it's true and we know that our products aren't the end all be all of. You know the glassing industry. We constantly are working towards you know that point.

Speaker 2:

But there's always things to change and our customers like us and they're they're usually very, very nice about their criticisms and their, their opinions.

Speaker 2:

Some aren't, but we still take every single thing that anybody has to say about our products to heart and they all get thought about and they all get talked about, no matter how mean you are about it or nice you are about it.

Speaker 2:

I might get a little frustrated if you're not really mean about it, but there's going to be a meeting and we're going to talk about that criticism. We're going to, you know, we're going to say like a lot of the times they've customers have kind of told me some stuff and I'm like I never thought about it that way and we've absolutely made revisions to products because of customer input and we get a lot of it and that's like the one thing I think I could say is like the best part of our customer base is how comfortable they seem giving us input on our products and like real, real input, because a lot of people, if they're spending the type of money that they spend on our stuff. They're probably pretty serious users, and we got some pretty serious users out there. I mean absolutely. There's not a. There's a lot of people out there that are using these products way more than any of our staff is, and that's vital to what we do.

Speaker 2:

So if anybody's out there with some opinions on Outdoorsons products infooutdoorsonscom fire away. We will answer you, I promise.

Speaker 1:

The podcast is brought to you in part by First Light technical clothing keeping me dry and comfortable from the duck blind to the back country. Check out all of their offerings at FirstLightcom. Sig Sauer, from the popular cross rifle, which I love, to everything optics, handguns, ammunition and accessories. Visit SigSauercom for their full lineup and on X Hunt maps. I use on X maps to plan and execute my own hunts, plus keep everything organized and accounted for at the outfit. I'm always scouting with the app. Check them out at onyxhuntcom. Oh, there's just such a give and take with everything gonna make some people happy and you know it's always like the. I'm sure the price and material balance, which is a huge, like a huge topic, especially with the legs, is like carbon fiber versus aluminum fire away.

Speaker 2:

It's massive. It's massive and we talked about this. We talked about this a while ago Gosh, that was a while ago. But it's the difference in the actual like. If you just look at the material itself, they are similar in a lot of ways. Like, if you take, you know, if you do deflection tests and all that type of stuff on how they actually interact with you know, weight and loads and things like that, they're quite similar. And then you look at the cost and you're like where the heck is that coming from? And it is purely just the availability and the quantity of the raw materials. Aluminum, pretty easy to get, you know, pretty easy to find. It's mined all across the entire planet. Carbon, not so much. You know there's few manufacturers, few raw manufacturers out there. You're importing pretty much everything as far as raw materials go and then you gotta then you gotta manufacture it you know, and the manufacturing process is very different than machining.

Speaker 2:

Machining, I'm not gonna piss people off, but machining seems easy sometimes, you know, compared to carbon stuff. And before we started this project, I mean I didn't know. I didn't know left from right when it came to the ins and outs of carbon materials and it took a long time to. It took about two years to really become comfortable with saying like, okay, this is worth this price and it has benefits over aluminum, and it's not better than aluminum, but it does have benefits that aluminum does not have. Because we will never say that carbon is better than aluminum. Aluminum is better than carbon. It can't be said.

Speaker 2:

You can argue either way all day long and we will, robbie, we will all day long can argue about carbon and aluminum, but one is great for one thing and one is great for another and it really just boils down to weight. And it's kind of unfortunate that it is that simple. But one is lighter than the other and that is the end at the end of the day. That's the big difference. They do act slightly different in wind, with vibration and other things, but it is purely the weight and we just pay for that weight. Because if you want something that is just as strong but lighter. That's probably a material that you're going to end up paying for.

Speaker 2:

I mean you look at anything like that titanium, other types of carbon materials they are the stronger, lighter version of their counterpart. They're always more expensive. Right.

Speaker 2:

And whether it's fair or not is we can argue that too, but the increasing cost truly is reflected in our prices and that's something we really try to get across to people. Is that aluminum tripod and that carbon tripod? They are priced pretty much identically as far as manufacturing Costco and that people sometimes don't believe and it's kind of frustrating. I promise we're not lying to you. It is just that much more expensive. And then we do manufacture everything in the United States and that again is unfortunate that it does come with a premium, but it does. And we do it for a lot of reasons. We obviously love creating and sustaining jobs within this country, but we also do it because there's a lot of quality control aspects that we have our hands in. That is either almost impossible to do overseas or very, very difficult. And if we're going to produce a product, this niche, we kind of have to have that much oversight and that much involvement in that process, because we're changing like tiny, tiny little things and we're doing things that the photo industry is not really known for and they would think is weird and they wouldn't really want to do, and that's photo is pretty much the only mass manufacturers out there. There's no hunting tripod mass manufacturers that you can order a tripod from. They're all just photo tripods, and so a lot of photo tripods make great tripods. We sell tons of them. But there is a reason. The cost is associated with our carbon products and our aluminum. But as far as difference goes and with our specific products our carbon and agra and our aluminum I talked earlier about we wanted to make a product that we truly did think has had a benefit over our aluminum, and not just the weight, because we knew we could make it lighter. We hit our goals on weight with the tall and the standard, the compact. We wanted just a tiny tiny bit lighter, but we got it under two pounds and that was the goal. There it is. It was a. There was a beat of sweat running down my head the day we weighed the final prototype and it was one pound 15 and seven eighths ounces. I mean we missed two pounds by an eighth of an ounce and I reweight it like five times because I didn't believe that it got that close. I was like, oh God, all right, I'll take it Like we got it under two pounds.

Speaker 2:

But the other thing is the enegra, and that's something no one knows what it is. I didn't know what it was until we stumbled upon it and it's a very cool addition. It's not something. Honestly, hopefully none of our customers ever see the benefits of enegra, because what it does is it increases the tensile strength and just the overall strength of the legs. You're not gonna notice it when you, when you get the tripod in your hands, when you feel it. There's no difference in feel, there's no difference of vibration, there's no difference in anything except for the durability and the rigidity of the legs.

Speaker 2:

So normal carbon is just a bunch of pieces laid in random directions, depending on the type that you use, and then those random pieces are all woven together in a fabric with nothing but carbon filament. The enegra does the same thing, but with a 60, 40 blend, about a 60, 40 blend of a polypropylene thread and carbon, and so the carbon is gonna run in its unidirectional pattern and then the polypropylene runs or sorry, omnidirectional pattern. And then the polypropylene runs in a unidirectional pattern straight up and down the tube, the entire length of the tube. So there is no break from the top to the bottom. And so when a tube takes a catastrophic impact or something that squishes the tube completely both sides. Touching normal carbon completely splits. It shatters. Sure. A lot of people out there have experienced that with tripods and car parts Tracking poles, breaking them.

Speaker 2:

Tracking poles yeah exactly.

Speaker 2:

I mean carbon. When it fails, it's catastrophic. There's no saving it. It's not like aluminum, whereas, you know, if you take a dent, yeah, the pole might not go in all the way, but it's still holding a lot of its structural integrity. That is something that Anegra will do. Those two sides can touch and basically shatter all of the carbon and then that Anegra is enough to hold that leg together to at least limp you out of the field and to at least you know, last year the hunt. Again, you might not be able to fold the leg up completely, it may not be able to hold your rifle at that point, but I can almost guarantee you it's gonna still, you're still gonna be able to use it really well.

Speaker 2:

Glassing, I mean, we've done it. We've shattered lots of broken tubes at the office and it still holds a massive amount of weight for a tube that's completely shattered. And that was something that we were really excited to kind of discover, because we felt like it was something that we could offer. You know, we could bring to the table and say like, hey, this is something a little different. And it actually didn't. It's not a huge price increase, that addition didn't change the price.

Speaker 2:

So we didn't feel like we were forcing that upon the customer saying like, hey, you have to use this brand new material, but we're gonna charge you $400 extra for it, or something like that. It ended up being within a very, very small percentage of just using carbon and we're like man, we can price this thing at about the same price. We were going to and offer a in my opinion, a very cooler product than just pure carbon, cause just pure carbon it's just reducing the weight, you know, and we were like that's cool. We make a two pound, six ounce tripod that you can stand behind. But you know, if we can offer something different, we will. So we were really excited about that.

Speaker 2:

That was a really fun project and our partners in that project were amazing. Our manufacturing partner in California for all of our carbon is awesome. They were vital in this entire process. Like I said, I knew nothing and I probably they probably hated me at some point. It's just asking all these little tiny questions about how it's made. You know how all this stuff's done and everything, and so it was a. It was a really fun project to work on and it continues to be a fun project to work on, cause I mean, I can't tell you when, but gen three's coming, gen four is coming. You know it's, it's going to happen and we're we're always going to try to do stuff like that. Bring a little bit more functionality into the field with you, because we make tripods and they're pretty simple instruments and so innovating in that space is is difficult.

Speaker 1:

Yeah.

Speaker 2:

And we love to see when people try and and and succeed and or not. I mean, we've got, we've had some. We've had some products that never even made it to market. You know that type of stuff and we're like, you know, you're six months in, you're like this is kind of dumb. You know, this doesn't, this doesn't really work that well, you know, and you have to, you have to go back to the drawing board. But yeah, we love to see innovation in that, in this industry, because it's far it's hard to innovate. You know you got three legs. That holds something. You know, how do you, how do you make it better every single day?

Speaker 1:

Yeah, I uh, last year when that, when the carbon and Niagara came out you're talking to me about the Niagara and you said you guys put it in a vice and clamped it and let the vice go in it. Then Niagara popped it back up to your tube. So it's still a circle which is like I mean that's, it's hard to measure. Yeah, a carbon fiber one would have broken in half.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, and they, they do, yeah, they, they just snap and it's, it's just. It's just what carbon does. You can't, you can't fix that. You have to use another material. And luckily, the way carbon, you know, is manufactured, or carbon tubes, or, you know, fiber tubes are manufactured, they're just a bunch of layers slapped on top of each other. So we were like well, can a an undisclosed amount of those layers be this?

Speaker 2:

And they're like, yeah, why not? You know, we're like, oh, let's, let's just do that, you know, and we, we played with a bunch of different materials and there was some cool stuff out there. We ended up with some really funny kind of prototype tubes that had some really interesting qualities to them, but we finally ended up on what we're using now the carbon and ennegra, and we're very happy with it. Its strength to weight ratio is extremely impressive. Its ability, its deflection, is amazing. I mean it can withstand some serious, serious weight before it actually starts to fail. And that was something we were pretty excited about, because we want our products to be as durable as possible. I mean, honestly, it's kind of a no-brainer. We try to make our products as bomb-proof as possible and they end up being a little simple in their design sometimes, but that lends itself, in our opinion, to strength, because moving components are a detriment to pretty much anything. They will. I mean, you can take cars.

Speaker 2:

I constantly am comparing everything to cars, and if you look at an engine bay from 1965 and you look at an engine bay from 2024, like rolling off the line, there's a few more wires and there's a few more moving parts in this new stuff, and so the things that can go wrong with this new stuff is massive compared to the stuff that could go wrong with the older stuff, and it's simply because they have less moving parts. And, in reality, what are those new moving parts actually adding to your experience? And so if it's not truly changing the way that you use the product and the way that you interact with it and your user experience, we're not just gonna add it for a sales pitch or for a bullet point on a spec sheet, because that's just a failure point. And, at the end of the day, our products need to be steady and durable, and those are the two main factors we really chase when we're designing products.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, I wanna touch on the price one more time, because I was literally screaming at my computer on the forums when the carbon was released, because you and I talked. It was like 2016, wasn't it, or 2017 was the first. Might have been it might have been 17.

Speaker 2:

I don't think it was 16, but it might have been 17.

Speaker 1:

It was back, yes it was back there and we talked about it and I the question that literally always comes up is carbon fiber versus aluminum. At the time you guys only made aluminum tripods. So I kicked the question to you and you basically at the time weren't really sold on carbon. You're like we can make a carbon fiber tripod. I'm telling you right now it's gonna be a lot, it's gonna be quite a bit of extra money for not that much weight savings. And people were like, do it. If they did it, I would buy one. And then the thing was like, oh well, with how much extra it costs, and then there's only this many ounces of weight savings, I'll just keep the one I have. And I was literally like he told you.

Speaker 2:

He literally told you and it's, you know, cause, like it's hard sometimes we always we have to detach ourselves Cause I mean, let's be honest, I'm not. I am not outdoorsman's consumer, I haven't bought an outdoorsman's tripod. You know, in a while I'll be honest. And so like really taking a step back and looking at that price, cause price is a huge deal in retail. I mean we commiserate over the prices of our products Cause we know that is the.

Speaker 2:

That's like the main interaction you have with a customer. If you're not speaking to them face to face, like as soon as they see that price, they are going to put a value on your product and they're gonna look at that price and say like a higher, low, you know, or or just right, no one ever seems to think it's just right. But you know they're gonna say, ah, that's a great deal, or holy crap, why would anybody buy that? And I think that goes back to the point of just trying to not make it just lighter. You know, not just trying to make it lighter, but trying to add a little value.

Speaker 2:

And you know, we we are a little bit more modular with this design too. It is a little bit easier to work with. If a customer ever needs to replace parts, or if parts ever break or we need to repair them, it is a little bit easier to work with. And that was a big, that was a big deal for us too. We wanted people, we wanted the service aspect of these tripods to be an enjoyable experience.

Speaker 2:

Our old tripods a lot of the times, pretty much every single problem they would have, would need to be repaired by us or looked at by us, and we wanted to kind of reduce that as much as we could. And that's something that's really hard to show somebody on a product page of a website. You know the fact that, yes, we are more expensive than other people's tripods, but you purchase this, we promise it's an amazing product, and then we promise we are amazing too, or we're gonna try to be as amazing as we can with every single interaction you have with us, whether it be extremely positive, or you know, we have negative interactions sometimes. I mean, you know stuff can break, it happens, but we want those. When that happens, we wanna be there for you. We understand, we know exactly what it feels like for something to break in the field. Or you know, an accident happens, you know, and it's like man, I gotta get this fixed now. How long is that gonna take, you know? Or how much is this gonna? Cost me.

Speaker 2:

Like, oh God, we don't want people to feel that way. We want them to be like, oh crap, I broke my tripod. And then they get off the phone with us and they're like, wow, that was awesome. You know like they'll have it done in a couple weeks and you know it's gonna be a very fair repair price, or you know something like that. So that's, there's price there, there's value there and you know it's a. We had fun during the launch of that tripod. We had a lot of fun during the launch of the tripod listening to people and talking to people, and we launched it at a show. We launched it at Reno Shoe Show in in the shoot last year.

Speaker 2:

January. Yeah, oh, it is last year now. I got to catch myself. I was like, oh, it is the fourth, but it was. It was really fun to. We launched it the first day of that show and I couldn't have been happier with the conversations I was having with people. And then I'm completely detached from the office.

Speaker 2:

I hadn't checked my email all day, I'm not even looking at Slack and anything and I realize I'm standing around a bunch of very serious sheep hunters and Western hunters and these are, these are like they want the best that they can buy because they need to rely on it and the internet was a completely separate, you know, conversation happening and I remember like I got we, we started talking about it later in the day and I started reading comments and I was like, wow, this is some. There are some very, very upset people and you know we, we can laugh about it all day long, but at the end of the day, those customers have points too, you know they. They have a point that is a very expensive tripod and we never want to be, we never want to be inaccessible to people. We always want to be as accessible as possible. Obviously, we want our products in people's hands, but there are certain things that we aren't willing to skimp on to make a product accessible and that's a very, very hard thing to balance and it's we've had a lot, you know there's we will continue to have these conversations forever, you know about that.

Speaker 2:

But it is prices are very, prices are very big thing we're aware of and I promise we're listening. You know we, we absolutely take into account everything that people say. People say that's insane, I'll never pay that, and we say, all right, we, we promise we are going to try to make something that you will pay for, so we, we will get you. You know cause? We're going to make good products and we promise we're going to, we're going to get you on something one day. We're going to, we're going to. You're going to be like oh shoot, they got us. You know, that's, that looks good, that's priced right.

Speaker 2:

So it's a it's a fun one.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, so you guys have your, you have your tripods and you have your own tripod heads that you guys build. But on the website you also carry some other stuff, some other brands of tripod legs and things. Why do you guys do that?

Speaker 2:

Again that exact point. I just talked about accessibility. We, I like it, feel it would feel horrible if a brand new hunter walked into our office or called us up on the phone and said like, hey, I want to spend, I don't. I know I need a tripod, I know I need a tripod head, but you know, like your products are, your products are out of my reach. That's completely understandable. We aren't. We aren't the beginner, we aren't the beginner product, we don't make that currently, and so these are our offerings. You know, a SURE is an amazing product. We absolutely love those tripods. They are a great deal for their pricing. Their pricing is insane sometimes and we acknowledge that it's. It's mind blowing what they can produce for that amount of money.

Speaker 2:

It's inaccessible or it's impossible for us to do that, and so why not? You know, like they're a, they're a great company, they work really well with us and they make a really good product. So you'll notice, we carry very specific third party tripods and tripod accessories, like the VH 10 and the VA five are the only two SURE heads that we carry for a very specific reason. They're the only ones we really recommend, for you know our style of hunting. And then same goes with Manfrotto. Like right now, really, the only Manfrotto head we're carrying is the X-Pro Fluid head, because it's pretty much the only one from Manfrotto that we would say, yeah, you should throw it. You know, if you're using a big 95 or some Coas or you know even some larger binoculars, maybe that'd be a great head for you.

Speaker 2:

And then Slick, Slick is the answer to I got 120 bucks. You know I need a tripod, Like I got the one for you. And they make it. They do, they make a very good product. It's extremely simple. They're they're quite featureless in their design, but again, the price absolutely reflects that and it's a very, very attractive price. So that's basically the answer. I mean we carry products that we truly can recommend. We've all used them in the field. I would be perfectly happy if you were like ah, you got to take a Slick 634 on this hunt. I'd be like, all right, you know it's not a huge deal.

Speaker 2:

That's a very capable tripod and, yes, I'm not going to have some of the creature comforts or some of the things that I would have on a more expensive tripod and it may not be as stable, but it's going to hold my binoculars and, at the end of the day, a tripod is better than no tripod. And if we need to bring in third party companies to provide an option for everybody on the spectrum of price and quality, then that's what we do. If one day we offer something for everybody maybe we don't, but I can promise you we probably never will because they don't offer something for everybody. There's no single company that does, and that's the beauty of it. I mean, there's a lot of great products that those companies make. So, yeah, we're.

Speaker 1:

I recommend that that Slick 634 a lot to people. I'm like I am really stern on my pan head, like I will recommend that thing 1,000 times over. But, especially if you're just trying to get into a system, like I think, spend your money on the head, go with a little cheaper set of legs at least to start with, and that's going to be like that's going to be a really good system to get you started.

Speaker 2:

Absolutely the top down is what I always say. Like, hey, what should I start with? Start from the top down. Whatever you're about to connect to the top of that tripod, that's what you start with. We aren't even the first stop. Well, we sell the products that you're going to attach to the top, but our company, outdoorsmills, isn't the first thing that you should purchase. It should absolutely be your glass. That should be where your money lies. I will die on that pedestal. It will pay for itself in the long run, more than any other product out there is.

Speaker 2:

If you take a little bit and you take a little bit out of your other budget and throw it into your optics, you will absolutely see a better return on your investment than spending. I mean, shoot, I'll even give our products. Like, if you're going to say I'm going to buy a carbon tripod, an Outdoorsmills carbon tripod, but I'm going to take $800 off my optics budget and we're like, no, no, no, no, no, don't do that, don't do that. Like, get the base started first with good optics.

Speaker 2:

So good optics, a good binocular adapter, good tripod heads and then a good set of legs, it's very simple Top down. If you're looking at a tripod, those are what you buy in that order and you will be happier, you will spend less money in the long run and you will have a system at the end of it that is very, very thought through and it kind of gives you time to find out what you like and what you don't like about the other products too. If you purchase some great pair of binoculars and then you shouldn't buy any other binocular adapter besides ours, there's no question about that. But and then if you buy, let's say, like a Manfrotto pistol grip, that big old pistol grip that they think they still actually make it we haven't ordered one in a very long time because it's not a great tripod head but let's say you get that and some Manfrotto like 290 legs, 290 aluminum legs.

Speaker 2:

Go hunt with that and you're probably not going to like the head very much. But you're going to learn what you don't like about the head and what you're looking for in one, because, especially if it's your first one ever, you don't really know what you like yet. I don't like pistol grips very much. We make an amazing one, but I have never used it. I used it when I was a kid, but that's about it. I love panheads and that's just what I like to use, but if I've never used one before, I don't know that. I don't know what I like and what I don't. So instead of buying our fluid head at $780, and then realizing I really don't like panheads, and then all of a sudden you're like shoot, that sucks. This is a great product, but it's not really what I was looking for.

Speaker 2:

If you take your time and invest in those things separately, I think you'll have a better understanding. I think people would have a better understanding of what they like out of a product or in a product, or what they want to get out of a product, and they would end up making less purchases.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, well, I really like mine. I have a standard height and I just run the regular panhead on it. And I had my rifle on it the other day and posted a picture and there was a bunch of people who were like what is that thing Do you?

Speaker 2:

what kind of a rifle attachment are you using that for? That setup yeah.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, it's just. It's an ARCA. I don't even know who. I don't remember who makes it. It's one of those that just. It tapers, it goes from a regular pick rail and then it goes out to an ARCA rail. So it's all one piece.

Speaker 2:

Oh, ok, is it Sam and River Solutions by any chance.

Speaker 1:

I don't think so. I mean, I'm not.

Speaker 2:

Those are the ones that manufactured those parts. They're another great partner of ours that manufactured some really cool all of our rifle accessories and things like that and they make some parts like that. But that's another great point is shooting off these tripods. Yeah. It's. I mean you're shooting off tripods, obviously right now. When did you, when did you start kind of hunting off of a tripod?

Speaker 1:

I feel like man, it wasn't that long ago and I still kind of have to make myself do it. And here's something too it's kind of funny there's. I've been especially like filming and stuff and I've hunted with a lot of people that they have like their glassing tripod and then they have another big tripod that they shoot off of and they carry both of them and that's just like ridiculous to me.

Speaker 2:

It's a little ridiculous. Yeah, I have fun with people like that and it's it's a lot. I get it, yeah, because there are definitely situations where it would be really nice, but it's a lot. You know that's because if you're shooting tripod is heavier than your glassing tripod. It's probably around five or six pounds. That's a lot of weight, at least In bulk and bulk wise.

Speaker 1:

I mean, they're usually pretty big, like they like those with pretty big diameters, so they seem to be more stable with a rifle, I guess. So at first I was always kind of like I'm just not going to carry both, but honestly, just being able to have an ARCA with me all the time and with that head Now I use it more than I ever really would. So, like now for coyote hunting and stuff like that, and I've gotten into a couple situations where it would be it was really nice to have hunting, but I'm still I'm still pretty new to it for actual hunting scenarios.

Speaker 2:

It definitely. I don't know why it kind of took me a while to get into it. I mean, like you know, products like the, the triclops and the hog saddle and things like that have been around for a decent amount of time and I just, I don't know, I never, I never really got into it. I was very, I was very into prone shooting and backpack supported and things like that, and I ended up it was was 20, 22.

Speaker 2:

I think I think it was a couple years ago, a couple seasons ago, that I ended up in a situation where I was basically forced to. It was I had, we had just started manufacturing those, those plates for our rifles, and I had, right before we left for the hunt, I slapped one on the rifle and I was like, if I'm in a situation where this is, you know, it feels good because I never done it before, I don't want to be messing around with things on a hunt, and I was like, if I get into a situation that this is work, so I'm going to try it. And I actually ended up almost being forced to do it and I remember, like, standing up after I, after I made the shot, I was like what, where has this been all my life Like? This was holy crap. I mean, it was the most stable I've ever felt taking a shot at an animal and you know it wasn't a crazy long shot. I don't like to.

Speaker 2:

I don't like to shoot very far, but holy crap, I mean with and that was on an old gen one system where you still had to slide it in and lock it down with the wing nut with gen two now, with that flip lever and being able to rock it in the side on an Arkham out.

Speaker 2:

Holy crap. I mean I shot a deer. I shot Nate's going to get mad at me. I'm going to spoil it. I'm going to spoil an episode here really quick. If Nate watches this, I'm sorry, but still watch the episode. We were in Kodiak, alaska, a couple of weeks ago and I mean from the time that we saw the deer that I shot and shooting the deer was less than a minute and I had time to. My tripod was in my pack pack on back rifle over shoulder. For the time I saw that deer and had my tripod out of my pack and rifle attached and I was sitting down on the deer was less than a minute and that's like that, that's quick. That's quick. To be able to be in a sitting position completely locked into a tripod that is 24 inches off the ground is pretty crazy. And again it just felt like so solid to actually do and I was like I am never not doing this ever again. I mean this was a. It's just. It makes the experience better, I think.

Speaker 1:

Or at least having the option. That's one of the big things that I like the most about it. That I wish I just would have done sooner is even when I was putting together my own adapters for ARCA, like I just wish I would have at least had the plate on my rifle that I would at least have the option, because when you need it you really need it. Otherwise for me, I feel like I can find prone for the most part like Idaho in the high country, you can just find prone easier, but like Kodiak, like you were saying, that's prime country for tripods.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, it's almost impossible. I mean, when we first touched land in that place I was like how do you kill anything around here, like the ground is? The ground moves this much every time you take a step. There's no way I can get prone here. All the reeds are way too high to even sit behind. I was like, unless I'm on one of these two hills that we're looking at, how do you kill something? And without, how do you kill something without a tripod? I mean, luckily I had that option and now it's like I will not leave for on without that option.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, I mean, like you said, at least having the option to do that and that goes for I mean every piece of equipment I have that can possibly be attached to a tripod. I mean my 832s have a tripod stud on or have a binocular stud on them. Have I ever used it? Probably not. I've probably never put those on a tripod before, but I've got the option to do it and it's a $20 stud or it's a little install. That's the cheap part.

Speaker 2:

Just the option to have something attached to a tripod is actually the cheap part of this whole operation. So you might as well just make sure that everything you've got has got a stud in it or got a plate on it or is available to attach to a tripod. So that's another huge piece of advice I try to get people to do. They're like yeah, I got a couple pairs of binoculars, I only need a stud for one, though. And I'm like why you got a pair of 10s and 15s and they're like I never use the 10s on a tripod. Like, well, I don't know, you drop your 15s off a cliff and you're on a once in a lifetime moose hunt. Wouldn't you like to have the ability to put those on for an extra $21.99 type of thing.

Speaker 1:

And they're like OK, yeah, but some people are like, nah, I'm like god, no, that's wrong, don't do that yeah, just, I mean, I get it trying to save some cash, but, being somebody that has had the whatever happened, then I'm just like, oh my god, I didn't do that, like I didn't put this on here because I wanted to save a little bit, and I'm just like I would pay triple for that at this moment, and I don't even. I can't get it.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, and those are like the studs in the adapters, huge, huge product for us, obviously. I mean you could consider it our flagship, besides the tripods and we will always attempt to make that one of our most accessible products as far as price goes. Obviously, prices are going to increase as time goes on. We can't avoid it. I wish we could, but we will always. We have lots of conversations about this one when does that get priced? And we always look at our competitors, but we're always looking at just our customer feedback and how they feel about the price of that product, because we want people to have that product, no matter what. We want you to have our binocular adapter system Because we truly do believe it's the best out there, and it was the best out there. It was the only one out there for quite a while and there's been some familiar looking things popping up Very, very much the same.

Speaker 1:

Huh, very much the same. That's another podcast.

Speaker 2:

I think. But yeah, we always try to make that our most accessible product and, uh, because of that fact right there, we always want people to have those with them, have extras, have two different colors now, because if you drop one in the field, you can find it when we first started making the colors.

Speaker 2:

Yes, it's there. It was a very small change that we made or a small thing that we offered, but so many people every single person that's ever lost a binocular adapter in the dark called us and was like I will take one, that's a simple fix to a problem that I've got. At first it was kind of just fun and then we were like, oh no, this does add a ton of functionality to these things, but you lose them, you give them to a buddy, that type of stuff. So you should always have those core products, I think, with you. If you purchase one thing from us from this podcast, please make it the binocular adapter 100%.

Speaker 2:

We know that those customers are probably going to come back. We love that product. We have 100% faith in the product. We know you're going to love it and we hope when you do, you come back and purchase some other stuff.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, yeah and a couple other things you guys have that I think maybe folks don't know about are overlooked. I guess one big thing is your adapter plate that you can slide so you can change the balance point of big optics like a 95, or if you have a BTX or something like that, you can actually change that. So if anybody has like maybe they don't have a great tripod head and even their 80mm spotter is like too much on the front you can get a plate from you guys that you can slide that center back.

Speaker 2:

Yes, definitely. Yeah, balancing optics is a thing that does not get talked about enough. We try to talk about it as much as possible with customers. It's extremely important and it will make you enjoy glassing more and it will increase the efficiency of your products that you're using and your glassing Oops, I mean it is. It's easy science.

Speaker 2:

You know you've got leverage that if your head is here and your center of gravity is out here, it's constantly going to be pulling down on your head. That means you need to increase tension on the tilt function of the head. Just to keep it, just to keep it straight, that increased tension is going to make it harder to tilt and move and enjoy the product. If you slide that center of gravity to the top of our pan head is, you know, pretty much the only, not the only, but the best example If you slide that center of gravity to right in the middle of that, it feels like a different product. It absolutely does. We've had, we've had a couple people with more than a couple, but we've had, we've had people with big optics using it on our on our pan head, which not really designed to be handling, you know, six pounds, seven pounds, spotting scopes, especially when they're imbalanced or they're not balanced and you know they're like man.

Speaker 2:

I just it's great product, you know it's really well made, but the feel just isn't there. And all of a sudden you throw a you know $20 plate on there and scoot it forward three inches and they're like, holy crap, like this changes everything. You're like, yeah, oh, it can, it changes it a ton. So that is a that's a great, great point. That's something that everybody should be doing.

Speaker 2:

There's very, very few spotting scopes. Spotting scopes really is the only thing that really matters. Binoculars, slightly, but not really. 15s are like the only thing I would suggest may be balancing if you're super picky, in my opinion, but spotting scopes super important, and very rarely do you have a manufacturer that says, oh, let's put the, let's put the mounting plate right in the center of gravity. I don't know why they it's. It's probably some technical thing that one of our reps is gonna is gonna text me about when they watch this and say like it's because of this, but I don't know what it is right now. But I really wish they would do that on everything, modular systems aside and all that stuff. But that is important.

Speaker 2:

And again, very rarely is that happening just by accident. If you just attach a small plate to the bottom of the spotting scope and throw it on a tripod head, very rarely is it going to be balanced. And even with high fluid tension heads like like video heads from from like SURE and the VA5 and the VH10 and the Manfrotto heads even those it will make, it will make those feel better. You will be able to decrease the tension on the tilt and you will have a more enjoyable experience, cause the lighter that feel is while you're moving the head, the better the experience. You don't want to be hirking and jerking, you know, around, and that's how fluid heads kind of get. That's how they kind of cheat just a little bit is they use massive amounts of fluid tension to to create that, instead of like mechanical breaking systems like our, our pan head does. And so it's a little less important, but it's still there. The importance is definitely still there.

Speaker 1:

So yeah, yeah, yeah. It's a great product and then a program I didn't know you guys had until recently. It was your trade in. It's kind of like a trade up program. If you have something like a pan head and you want to get a gen two, you can get online and fill out a form and basically say, hey, I have a gen one and what would you give me for it?

Speaker 2:

Basically, Absolutely, and so we take in all any outdoors in this tripod head that's ever been produced and any outdoors in this tripod that's ever been produced. We don't purchase accessories and things like that, mainly because they're still usable with the new generation of products. So you're probably still going to need those anyways if you are upgrading to a, to a gen two or anything. But all of our outdoors as products is fixed price, fixed purchase price from the customer based on their cosmetic grade. Basically, it's basically two prices, a and B. We don't really take anything in that we would consider less than a B grade because we're reselling it and we don't really want our customers to have those.

Speaker 2:

We'll take them off people's hands every once in a while, but really we try to stick with the stuff that is fairly in good condition and then we send them out, get them, get them all looked at, get them all, get a good once over on them and then sell them back to people. And you know, yes, the the trading program we were laughing about it this morning cause it's a lot of fun, it's a lot of work, but it's it's. We have some very interesting interactions with people and at the end of the day, yes, we are reselling these products. It's not a. We're not hiding anything from anybody. Yes, we are purchasing them for a lower price and we are reselling them for a higher price. That is just the nature of a buying and selling.

Speaker 1:

It's kinda how it works.

Speaker 2:

It's kinda how it works, and so we do get some people every once in a while, especially in the optics category, cause we do purchase tons of used optics and we highly encourage people to take advantage of this program. It's extremely simple. I can't I cannot stress how easy it is to sell something to us and how fast we can get you just completely upgraded. If you've got an old pair of binoculars and you want some, you want a new pair. If you're quick with responding to emails, I mean, we can have you a brand new pair of binoculars at a trading credit price in like a week. So it's a very simple process and it's awesome because I think we're offering a lot of people just a really quick way to upgrade instead of having to sell on forums or eBay and now eBay's taking all your money and they're gonna 1099 everybody now.

Speaker 2:

Don't do that. We're not paying you. We do offer cash, but most of the time it's just trading credit and it's simple and it's easy and you get a discount on the new product that you're trying to purchase and we call it a day. I do wanna warn people that could possibly be using this program is you do have to remember that we are reselling these products. This is a trade-in. If you go and look up the Kelly Blue Book value of your car right now for a trade-in, it is nowhere near the fair market value.

Speaker 2:

It's not great because they're factoring in resell and it's a market we have a pretty strict pricing structure that we purchase things at. But we are dealing with a especially right now. We're dealing with a fairly volatile optics market because there are a lot of changes happening in pricing. When something goes on sale that will affect the used market pricing and it's very fast. It's a small community of people reselling and purchasing high-end optics and so it happens very quickly.

Speaker 2:

A great example would be like the EL 1042 from Serovsky. They were I can't even remember. They dropped them by a substantial amount. They are now $19.99 for a pair of ELs. Prior to that price drop they were reselling on the used market for about $1800. That's not happening anymore. No one's purchasing used EL 1042s they're five years old for $200 below retail. That's just not gonna happen. And so basically, over one day that market just all of a sudden just goes boom and that price drops like crazy and we start seeing sale prices drop like crazy. So we do get people every once in a while that are upset with that.

Speaker 2:

But I promise anybody we are not trying to rip anybody off. We really wanna do business with everybody and we really wanna offer a fair value to everything, but there is a trade-in involved, there is a resale involved, but again, the selling side of those used optics is also something that we really think we're offering a great service to people. That is a one-stop shop for very high quality, very well taken care of, high-end used optics, and it is constantly flowing in. There is new stuff every single week. There is piles of stuff that we haven't even gotten to process at any given time. So if you're looking for something and new retail prices are just not looking attractive to you, that is a great program to take a look at.

Speaker 2:

I mean, shoot, even if you don't purchase used from us. Purchasing used is a great idea For sure. A lot of this high-end stuff really holds its value, and so I mean it's a give and take. Yes, you are not going to get as much from us as you would just selling it yourself, but also we will buy it from you, basically, no questions asked. There are certain brands that we will buy it's if you send it in. We will give you an offer for it and you can send it in the mail and we will either send you a check or give you store credit immediately. No questions asked.

Speaker 2:

No haggling, no meeting people in parking lots no talking to people on forums none of that stuff and I think there is a service there, but it does. It gets a little interesting. It's fun sometimes having conversations with people about we're like we're not trying to piss anybody off, I promise, but yes, if you're looking for some good used optics or you're looking to sell some stuff, please contact us. We would love to do business with you.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, yeah, I think it's a great. I think it's a great looking program man. Anything else coming down the pipe we should look at or be looking for.

Speaker 2:

Definitely definitely. I don't think, let me see, can I spill the beans on anything yet?

Speaker 1:

I mean I say you can spill it on all of it.

Speaker 2:

but I know I gotta.

Speaker 1:

Chris might go.

Speaker 2:

I'll really pick my words, I gotta really pick my words, especially with some of them. I gotta be really careful. But, um, we are working on. We are working on a lot of, I think, really cool small things right now that I'll absolutely give you a look into, and it's coming from a focus on adding some accessory value to our product line and adding some things that can be used with our current products Not necessarily a brand new product in whole, but something to get enhanced current products.

Speaker 2:

And my favorite right now is a new Panhand handle that we're that we're working on and it's actually a an unlocking hinge design. So normal Panhand handle, straight coming out, doesn't move. This one comes out and it actually has a locking collar in the middle that if you unlock, it hinges at a point and it has two we're we're trying to decide on final design right now but it has a loop at the end of it or two finger loops that then the handle can hinge back towards the center post or towards the trunnion of the tripod and instead of having to hold your hand out or even kind of extend those two fingers and kind of try to do it like that, you can hold your hand really close to the trunnion and just from the camming mechanism of that hinge. Just by moving your hand up and down, it'll actually move the binocular up and down and then all you have to do to turn it is just turn your hand and yeah, it's a. It's a. It's a really cool.

Speaker 2:

I just used the first. I used the first prototype on a hunt a couple of weeks ago and I remember it like thinking to myself, wow, this is a very small thing. That actually has enhanced, you know, my experience using this, and I mean from from just getting uncomfortable, kind of holding my hand up and using that handle, to just being able to rest it on the trunnion. I mean cold, it was cold as hell, and you know I don't like to have my hands. You know I like to kind of bundle up, and so it's a, it's a cool little product. That is something that we're. We're about 99% on the release of that one. But there's there's big stuff, there's bigger stuff coming.

Speaker 2:

For sure that nice Can't quite can't quite talk about just yet, Especially because I'm not confident enough to talk about it yet.

Speaker 1:

But that's all right. Uh, show wise the basics. You're going to be at Sheepshow Western Honnexpo yes.

Speaker 2:

And then a, a new one. Uh, the.

Speaker 1:

Oh, is it the one in Denver Mile.

Speaker 2:

High. Yes, the Mile High event. Um let me.

Speaker 1:

It's later. I'm going to it's much later, it is. It's in April.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, yeah, and I think a lot of other people are too, because we are coming from it. Let me there. It is right there. That is going to be April 5th to the 7th, just outside of Denver, and I will highly encourage people to check this one out. The exhibitor list is stacked. The people that we know are coming like just actual individuals is stacked. It is going to be if it's not packed which it's their first year. It could go either way.

Speaker 2:

I think it's going to go really well. What I do know is it's going to be an amazing show and you could have some of the best opportunity you've ever had to speak to some of these companies, because it's not. It's not going to be as big as Reno Sheep, you know, and and some of the other shows. It's going to be a little more intimate and it's going to be an amazing opportunity to really get some time with some vendors and manufacturers that you maybe weren't able to have conversations with in the past. And it's April in Denver. I mean, how amazing is that? We're going to be in three feet of snow in Reno and then I get to go to. I get to go have a vacation in Denver in April. So we're very excited about that one. But then our other ones will be Reno Sheep show, we will be at SCI in Nashville and we will be at Western Hunter Conservation Expo in Salt Lake City. So just the, the three normal ones, and then that addition of the, the mile high event, which we're we're super excited about.

Speaker 1:

Awesome. Well, people can go check that out and go see your projects, your products, products man running light in the day, it is, oh man.

Speaker 2:

All right, mark. Well, thanks a ton Absolutely. I super appreciate it. Yeah, it was always, always a pleasure.

Speaker 4:

Yeah, Thanks for listening to this episode of Jordan's toolkit. If you have any questions or suggestions for future episodes, please visit the website Jordan dash budcom and follow the links to submit an email or voicemail to be played on air. If you're listening on an audio platform, you can also watch this podcast on YouTube via Jordan Bud's personal channel.

People on this episode

Head Shot

Jordan Budd

Host
Head Shot

Lea Piper

Co-host