Wicked Wanderings
Delve into the enigmatic realms of the mysterious, unearth tales of haunting encounters, explore the chilling depths of true crime, and unravel the threads of the unexplained. Join us on the Wicked Wanderings Podcast for a riveting journey through the realms of the unknown and the haunting mysteries that linger in the shadows.
Wicked Wanderings
Ep. 59: Ted Bundy: Part 3
Join us on a haunting journey as we welcome Courtney as our new co-host on Wicked Wanderings, diving deep into the chilling legacy of Ted Bundy and the stories of those he left in his wake. What drives a seemingly charming individual to such monstrous acts? We unravel the untold stories of Julie Cunningham and Denise Oliverson, victims shrouded in mystery, whose disappearances still echo with unanswered questions and heartbreak. These poignant stories remind us of the emotional weight these cases carry, even decades later.
Explore Bundy's cunning nature as we examine the cases of Melanie Cooley and Shelly Robertson, who fell prey to his manipulative charm. How did Bundy manage to outsmart law enforcement time and time again? We delve into his notorious escapes, his complex legal troubles, and the chilling allure of his "bad boy" persona. The fascination with criminals like Bundy is dissected, shedding light on the psychological underpinnings that draw some to these dark figures, even amidst their heinous acts.
Experience the terror of Bundy's violent rampage, from the brutal attacks at the Chi Omega sorority house to the tragic story of 12-year-old Kimberly Diane Leach. We reflect on the path of destruction Bundy carved, leaving lasting scars on his victims and their families. As we recount these chilling events, we also set the stage for future discussions by introducing the unsolved mystery of Lynn Burdick. Prepare to be captivated by the complex tapestry of Bundy's life, as each story unfolds with haunting detail.
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Wicked Wanderings is hosted by Hannah & Courtney and it's produced by Rob Fitzpatrick. Music by Sascha Ende.
Wicked Wanderings is a Production of Studio 113
Someone says SD. Do you think of an STD? No, do you think of ABA, like the SD? Oh yeah, no, we don't call them STDs anymore, we call them STIs. Okay.
Speaker 3:Hi, I'm Hannah and I'm Courtney. Join us as we delve into true crime, paranormal encounters and all things spooky.
Speaker 1:Grab your flashlight and get ready to wander into the darkness with us.
Speaker 3:This is Wicked Wanderings.
Speaker 1:Hello Courtney, hi Hannah.
Speaker 3:How are you? I'm great. How are you? Oh, fabulous. I do want to make an announcement to the Wanderers. I do want to make an announcement to the Wanderers. If you listened to last week's episode, you noticed that the intro has changed to include Courtney, who is now officially drumroll. Courtney is now official co-host of Wicked Wandering, so ta-da.
Speaker 1:I'm very excited. You seem thrilled. I just feel like I've been here like the whole time, so I'm just kind of like. I feel like it's like official now.
Speaker 2:Well, if we do really want to make it official, we have to add you to the outro.
Speaker 3:Are we ready to do more, bundy?
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah. We're always ready for more Bundy. I feel like Bundy is one of those people where, once we started talking about him, all of a sudden I see his name and I hear his name coming up more often. I was about him. All of a sudden I see his name and I hear his name coming up more often.
Speaker 3:I was telling you earlier in a book. Yeah, I'm like, how come bundy is just like he's like bl juice if you say his name three times. Oh, so more bundy. Uh, confession. I feel like I've had a lot of those lately of the third degree. I thought this would be the last one, it's not fucking hannah.
Speaker 1:All right, that's a good one. We shouldn't have made that a button.
Speaker 3:I have words, but anyways bundy, I have more victims, and that's kind of where we're gonna start again. And then there's some. There's some good shit that I didn't even know, like I knew, but I didn't know the round of detail about it right, we, we're just saying something as an avid Bundy lover.
Speaker 1:I'll also put a quick disclaimer in for anybody who's just jumping in. Now You're going to want to go back and see the first two parts of Bundy before you hear this one, unless you don't care about knowing the whole story and then just keep listening and ignore. I said anything.
Speaker 3:And there also is a lot of vivid imagery.
Speaker 2:So just to touch on that, this is episode 59. You want to go back and listen to episode 53. And then after that one jump to episode 56. That will be episode Ted Bundy 1 and episode Ted Bundy 2.
Speaker 3:So this is going to be episode 60.
Speaker 2:No, this is episode 59, as I just stated, and this is Ted Bundy 3.
Speaker 3:Shade being thrown. Okay well, I just wanted to see, because there's 3 and 313.
Speaker 2:313.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Are you from the 313? 413. We're actually from the 413.
Speaker 3:Okay, sorry, anna, here we go. Julie Cunningham this poor Julie Cunningham, she just wanted to be loved. Like it broke my heart reading about this one. So she was a girl that she looked in all the wrong places for love. She was the girl that got the had fun, call you later type girls. She got dumped again and again and she, she had a really positive outlook though, because she's like there's always tomorrow, I'll find my man tomorrow.
Speaker 1:Bless her soul. I would have lost patience, I know right.
Speaker 3:So she was heading to a tavern to have drinks with friends and she never made it.
Speaker 2:Oh.
Speaker 3:I know. Next one is Denise Oliverson yes, oliverson, 25 years old. She got into a fight with her husband. So she's like, fuck you, I'm gonna take the bike to my parents house. Never made it. But the husband didn't think to worry about her because she he thought she was on the way to her parents house, right, and the parents didn't know anything about it, right? So he wasn't expecting to hear from her. And then by the next monday he was like hey, like how's she doing? And the parents were like what are you talking about? She's not here.
Speaker 1:And that's how he found out she was missing and that's horrible too, because I'm sure that guilt sits with you for a long time, where you're like I should have said something, but you were in a disagreement, so if you're right, I mean to me being in a disagreement with your spouse, you would at least follow up with them the next day at some point you would know they were okay, but that was a different time back then.
Speaker 3:Yeah, he gave her a couple days and then he's like all right, I haven't heard from her. That's sad. Yeah, that's really sad. Melanie cooley is the next one. She left her high school and then her body was found eight days later. Shelly robertson uh, she didn't show up for work and she was found in a mine. Actually, huh.
Speaker 3:And then I have to read something hold on, and here I am quoting, here I am quoting okay there's a reason I'm reading it, but I'm gonna read it first, okay, so again, this is from um ann rule's book the stranger beside me which again I will say I highly recommend.
Speaker 3:It's very good book, even though it's taking me forever to read it link in the show notes of all the Western victims, there was not one who had short hair, not one who could be described as anything but beautiful and not one who would have gone away willingly with a complete stranger. Even the girls who had been known to hitchhike had been cautious. Yet there is a common denominator in almost every instance Something in the victims' lives had gone awry on the days they vanished. Something gone awry on the days they vanished, something that would tend to make them distracted and therefore easy prey for a clever killer. And then she goes into, like all the girls which is true, like all of them seem distracted or disheveled, or just not not on their a-game right, which makes me wonder like did he know or was it?
Speaker 1:was he reading human behavior, was it? I know? So that's that's. Was it luck of the draw? I mean, I hate to say that. How did he know? I know he was it, I know so that's that's. Was it luck of the draw? I mean, I hate to say that, how did he?
Speaker 3:know, I know he was smart. I mean he really was smart and something else about him that I thought was really interesting that she pointed out that she said ted bonnie was a chameleon, and which is very true, because you look at pictures of him from like different times during the trials to you know, when he was younger to when he was dating in college, and his look changes. He changes. He doesn't look like the same person. So when some of these women that were able to escape and then looking at him so much time later, he doesn't look like the same person, right.
Speaker 1:Which is crazy. That's an interesting thing too to notice that he. I'm sure that helped him with getting people into cars and things like that absolutely so.
Speaker 3:We're going to talk about a man named officer hayward and he was kind of in his area. Um, he was on his way home and he saw this vw bug in his neighborhood. And when you live in a small neighborhood, you pretty much know the cars right, like I know when I visit my mom, like I know the cars that are on her street if somebody were to get a new car, you'd be like, oh, do they have a visitor?
Speaker 3:get a new car, yeah and because of this he's looking at them and he's like this car does not belong in this area, like who is this guy? So he decides to put on his brights and then the bug took off. And so he pursued it, right, he followed the bug, which finally pulled over and the driver gets out, which we know is Bundy, right, and he said oh, you know, I'm lost, I'm sorry. And so Hayward's like you ran two stop signs, right, interesting, I need your driver's license and registration. And Hayward, interesting, um, I need your driver's license, registration. And hayward's like, well, what are you, what are you doing around here? Like, why are you going through this, this neighborhood? And he's like, oh, I was at this movie theater seeing whatever movie it was. And hayward, which he knows the area he lives in, he's like that movie is not being shown. First of all, like, interesting, something sus right as a new kid.
Speaker 2:Yes, I noticed you say that a lot now.
Speaker 3:Because I work in a middle school.
Speaker 1:I'm sorry, hiplingo Seeping into her brain.
Speaker 3:I'm sorry, it was very suspicious. So Hayward's like all right, can I, can I search your car? So he searched it and he thought it was weird that the passenger seat was removed and in the back he saw a ski mask, a crowbar, an ice pick, a rope and a wire that seems suspicious. Yeah, but I mean, if I keep in my truck or car, right it's 2020.
Speaker 1:So we're looking at it. Knowing him, you're like, okay, well, that would be suspicious, but if it was somebody else, you maybe had a reason for all those things. I don't know what that would be right now but so.
Speaker 3:But having those things together isn't the crime, right, right. So he got arrested for evading an officer. He was released later on personal recognizance and Detective Thompson started putting pieces together, which was another detective that was part of everything, and he ended up getting an added charge of possession of burglary tools, apparently. So I guess you can be charged for that, or you could at some point. Yeah, depending on the state, I'm sure too. So Bundy also signed a permission to search form for which they can. What did I write? Sorry, hold on please.
Speaker 1:Sometimes I wrote so fast.
Speaker 3:I can't even read my own writing. I do that on the Kindle too. Ah, okay, sorry, rob. So Bundy also signed a permission slip to saying that they could search his apartment but just not touch anything. So basically they could go in, they could see what they find.
Speaker 1:But they couldn't open a drawer, they couldn't move things to look.
Speaker 3:Right, they couldn't take anything either.
Speaker 3:they would need to go like okay, we found suspicious things we got a warrant and then come back, but by that time he can get rid of things, right. Right, so that was at his first avenue apartment in utah, okay, so he ends up contacting ann, who is one of his good friends that he knows has connections with with the police department, and he calls and he's like, can you find out why they want my law records? And she's like, yeah, but I'm not gonna be shady about it, like, yeah, ted, I'll do you a favor, but I need to let them know that you're the one that's asking why, right, she's not willing to put herself on the line for him? Right, because she's, she's an author, she already. She has tons of connections with a lot of different police stations. Like, I'm not going to ruin my chances on this for you, right?
Speaker 2:Did she already start writing books?
Speaker 3:She. So she, she, what's the word? She did scripts, articles, journalism type stuff and she, yeah, and she did talk about how she wanted to write a book with Bundy, but she didn't want to do it yet. Because she's like he's still my friend, like I want to respect that relationship and also like there's a lot of doubt for her too. She's like he can't be the killer, it can't be him. Like you never want to think ill of a person that walked you to your car to make sure you're safe, like so I think there was a lot of going back and forth with her emotions, like I don't know't know how to feel. I feel bad for these women, but at the same time, he can't be the one.
Speaker 1:So there's a lot back and forth. I think a lot of people who write about true crime have that moment of like. Am I doing more harm than good? Am I glorifying the wrong thing? Am I respecting the victims? I know we consider that a lot when we're having our conversations. We've had Lots of conversations, the three of us, yeah, making sure that the victims are honored and that nobody feels like we're glorifying the wrong kind of behavior and the wrong type of people. Right.
Speaker 3:And I know we kid like oh my God, hannah loves Bundy. I mean, I just find him so fascinating. But I also want to respect the victims as well, because he was not a nice man.
Speaker 3:You find him fascinating from a human behavior standpoint. Yes, exactly which. We are huge on behavior. So, anyway, she calls, she's like hey, bundy's contacting me, can you tell me something? And the guy's like just let him know that he's one of 1,200 other guys that we've been looking at. So she calls Ted back and she's like all right, you're one of 1,200 other guys. And he's like all right, well, I'm letting you know, I'm going to be in a lineup tomorrow. And he ended up writing her from jail, which I'm also going to read them, and here I am quoting, here I am quoting.
Speaker 3:Okay, so he was writing all these like poems, which could be really dark at times. So this is one of the ones he wrote Sleep comes on slowly. Read the words of the holy. The scriptures bring peace. They talk of release. They bring us, they bring us to god. And here that seems odd, but his gift is so clear. I find that he's near mercy and redemption, without an exception. He puts me at ease. Jailer, do what you please. No harm can befall me when the savior does call me. Right like, right, like it's. It's odd. And then here's another one he wrote it makes me feel blue taking food from the animals in the zoo. Pork chops tonight. Jews are uptight. I gave mine away. It still has a tail. And as for dessert, the cook, that old flirt, surprised us with mellow peach jello.
Speaker 1:Hmm, I mean, he's so smart. It makes me wonder if he thought that, like, like he was using the observer bias to his, to his credit, like they're watching me, so I'm going to say all these things, I'm going to write these particular things, I'm going to say these things because then they're going to think differently of me. He strikes me as the kind of person who who definitely could take that feedback and say okay, I'm going to act the way that they would want me to if I was innocent.
Speaker 3:Another thing too like days of days, self-control pays. Don't lose your mind. Panic's not kind. Days of days, my integrity stays. So it's almost like like to your point. Like he knows they want him to go berserk and make all these statements true about him. He's like I'm not going to crack, right, I'm not going to crack. He's like don't get out of character, right. So detectives met with Meg Anders, the woman he'd been cheating on. She felt a lot of shame. She felt a lot of sadness. She listed all the weird things that he's been doing over the years.
Speaker 1:There's a lot of them. From what you've reported so far, quite a few.
Speaker 3:A lot of nocturnal habits, like he'd be gone for hours in the middle of the night, she hours in the middle of the night.
Speaker 1:um, she also admitted to his sexual behaviors, like he wanted bondage during sex. Okay, um, which is not a crime. It's not a crime all the time.
Speaker 3:Kinks be, kinks, kinks be kinks like do it safely, everybody right know your limits. Research, do your research. Um, he left like odd items around that she was like this stuff, stuff makes no sense. Like what's this for? So women started coming out of the woodwork Stories of strange sexual encounters that he's sweet and he's a gentleman. But like then he asked me to do these things that I wasn't comfortable with and like you wouldn't think he would ask for. So ann makes a point in saying that bundy always had a woman who would believe in his innocence and look forward to prison visits.
Speaker 1:He would always almost like he had groupies, right, he had people that were like okay with visiting him in jail so he was very similar to tony costa, who had his whole like people who followed him and then they were like reenacting the stuff he was doing.
Speaker 3:Yes, which these men like. It's amazing that the following they could have Like you, look at Manson too right, he had all these women that were just like swooning over him.
Speaker 1:Well, and that's the thing that still exists right, we'll talk about it again. Wade Wilson, wade Wilson. Look at the people he's got. Yes, something about the bad boys, that toxic thing.
Speaker 3:Your women, that bad boy mentality. His family and friends raised $15,000 bond for him. He returned home to Meg and she fell in love all over again. Poor Meg, poor Meg. They had tales on him constantly, though. So in Anne's book she actually has pictures of like from police telling him like you'd see, it's like these shots from like across the road that they would take of him and stuff. He met with Anne on two separate occasions when he was out and Ted disclosed that he knew Meg, gave cops information, but he did not act upset, so she just wanted them to move on in the relationship. He was like I know she said these things, but it's OK, we'll move on. Just kind of also a little psychotic behavior that you don't want to talk about that. What I don't know, do I still have you guys?
Speaker 1:I don't know I was taking a drink and then I was like, oh, there's a hair on the blanket um, so story time, um, I thought was such an interesting piece of information.
Speaker 3:So it was meg's daughter's birthday and she was turning 12 and she wanted to have like a friend go with her. But once they found out that ted was the one that's me watching them, that mother was like fuck, no, you're not watching my kid. I mean, ted took offense to it like he was totally upset about it. He's like what do you think I'm gonna do? Hurt her?
Speaker 3:he's probably thinking she's not in my age range close, I'll get to that I don't know, so obviously I think we talked a little bit about this before like he has mommy issues which he doesn't really admit to. Um, another interesting point that ann brings up with this is that you know he she reminded him that, like you know, your mom went through a lot, but don't forget, like she did, kept choosing you right, yeah, that's true, took you everywhere like she, she did have your best interest in mind.
Speaker 3:So anyways, he reaches the court date for the kidnapping of Carol Durant, which remember she was the bookstore one where he, he took her out of the bookstore and everything and pretend to be a cop. So on monday, february 23rd 1976, in salt lake city, the court date came. There was no jury, just a judge. Okay, which he asked for, which I thought was interesting. Not in his favor, I'm sure he thought. Well, so apparently this judge was, he thought, was going to rule in his favor. We'll just say that, okay. So Ted had huge confidence.
Speaker 3:Two-hour cross-examination for Carol, which was horrifying for this poor child. It feels so bad, probably very traumatic. Yeah, yes, ted would just stare her down the whole time. And Ted ended up going on the stand himself but nothing worked in his favor because the judge ruled guilty. So back to jail he went because of it. Um, so anyways, ann was helping him, she put money in his commissary and she would write to him and she said he like misstated letters almost like all the time and he lost like track of time. So like when she would send, he would send her a letter in like march, he would date it february interesting, yes, which makes you like.
Speaker 1:Did he do it on purpose or was it something else going on? I?
Speaker 3:didn't even think he did it on purpose. It was like with the poems. I thought it was interesting the fact that you brought up about. Is he like hiding information in the poems? Like I didn't even think of that? Yeah, I mean the dates too, like.
Speaker 1:I didn't even think of that. He's of that. He's very smart. That's why I think normally I would say, oh, it's just somebody who maybe is having a mental health crisis, but with him the information we have, he's so thorough he's so well thought out that I wonder if it wasn't a hint or a clue.
Speaker 3:It was a really good point. So she does visit him in prison. Uh, before his sentencing, and he told her that he wanted to write a book on his life and how he had. He was innocent, but obviously he never got to write that book and he wasn't innocent ahead uh, he was ordered to go through psyche valves as part of his stay before sentencing and, of course, nothing came out of the test, which is it's surprising, but it's not surprising, yeah I feel like he would know how to skew the results.
Speaker 1:Yeah exactly.
Speaker 3:Uh, one thing they did find was was that they found that he has dependency on women and fear of humiliation. 100%. So that's not mommy issues. Yes, exactly, ted was still dating Meg and he was also dating another woman at the same time.
Speaker 2:Of course, the whole time I'm like poor.
Speaker 3:Meg Anne was kind of put in the middle because Ted asked her to check on Meg, make sure she's still around, and she's like dude, like, let her go. Like, let the poor girl go, leave Meg alone. In prison he became a hot commodity by being the guy that offers legal advice to the other inmates, so that was kind of like the way for him to like all I could be someone's bitch, like I'll offer you guys some legal advice. There we go bitch. So he worked in the prison print shop, which he did end up losing privileges to, though, um, one day bungee did not return to his cell, so but he was found behind a bush with items such as a social security card, sketch of a driver's license and a plane schedule. So he was trying to escape?
Speaker 2:yeah, of course he was, with prints that he made from the print?
Speaker 1:yes, a social security card, sketch of a driver's license and a plane schedule. So he was trying to escape? Yeah, of course he was With prints that he made from the print shop. Yes, exactly.
Speaker 1:So that's why he lost that privilege Interesting. It makes me wonder, like if he had a more thought out plan or if it was just that was the first stage. You know, like how close was he to being able to break out? Oh, I'm just saying that was the first stage. You know, like, how close was he to being able to break out? Oh, I'm just saying Sorry, I'm always ahead of myself.
Speaker 3:Anne was busy. She was writing for magazines, she was moving house and Bungie got pissed at her for not writing to him. So he sends her this. Dear Anne, I surrender. Did I say something offensive? Worse yet, is my breath offensive? Have my letters been stolen by the CIA and you think I don't write you anymore? So you don't write to me? Am I too hopeless a case? Don't answer that. I can take it, yes to read. Never let it be said that I lost my cool just because my friends had forgotten me.
Speaker 1:So there was some anger in him.
Speaker 3:I just can't imagine being her like wow, I'm living my life Like, and I get this really awful from a friend, from a friend who's in jail yes, and I've done nothing but help.
Speaker 1:Yes, all personal traumas are coming out of here for me.
Speaker 3:Like I'm trying to say like you're innocent and be a good friend Right, and like you're being a dick.
Speaker 1:Yeah, a hundred percent. Did theia intercept my message? Yeah, don't answer that, don't answer that. I'm like fine, I'm not answering you at all, all right.
Speaker 3:So january 28 1977 he moved from utah to colorado to face charges there. Because this boy has gotten around, he does crimes everywhere. He was placed in what he called a mom and pop jail uh, before preliminary it was more like, is that like a mom and pop shop.
Speaker 2:So what I mean by mom pop jail.
Speaker 3:It's like those olden times where like the warden lived in the jail oh, and they were smaller, small, yeah, um.
Speaker 2:Have you heard about the the?
Speaker 3:squirrel. The squirrel jail, I think it's called, where it was like um, a circular jail that like you had to like turn a crank, so like the prisoners. Have you heard about the squirrel jail I think it's called no when it was like a circular jail that you had to turn a crank, so the prisoners were all in one circular area.
Speaker 1:That sounds kind of cool. Oh yeah, Architecturally that sounds really cool.
Speaker 3:Yes, yes, I'll have to send you a link, but anyways, I digress. So the preliminary happened April 1977, and witnesses were brought in who identified Bundy's mugshot the night after Karen Campbell went missing and you remember her, she was the one from Aspen. Okay, so she identified him. But when asked to point who you saw, she pointed to someone completely different. So they have this witness. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, mug mugshot. That's him.
Speaker 3:She gets into the um courthouse and she points to a completely different person who actually ended up being one of the officers, like the court officers, and they're like, okay, this is a problem, but makes her look really unreliable. Yeah, unreliable, but he's a chameleon like he. He can change his look so easily, like it just has this thing about him. So that ended up being a wash. But the evidence they had on him was the credit card slips, right, the brochures of the Aspen ski resorts and everything, two hairs from his VW bug and a matched crowbar, to like the spot on her skull that got pushed in because of him obviously whacking her with that. He is still standing trial like, all right, we don't have this witness, but we still have, there was still something that they could still go after him with you bundy quote unquote fires and there's a reason why I put in quotes fires his public defenders and he's going to represent himself.
Speaker 1:Why do all criminals do this? Can we just pause for a quick second to say that? How many times are you reading a story and the criminal is like I know more about this than you Get out of here? I'm going to represent myself. Yeah, it's the best thing to do when you know you're guilty. Yes, it's the really, really smart ones that's true that they don't want to admit to anybody that they're guilty, I think, is what it is. It's.
Speaker 3:I don't get it, but he thought he could do a better job.
Speaker 2:So he Didn't he have a law background? Didn't he go to law school?
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so there you go. I mean he never graduated, but no, no, but he had enough knowledge to be able to represent himself.
Speaker 1:But if you knew you were guilty? And I mean, I guess this is again where I'm going to say that he wanted so badly to make people think the opposite, like if you know you're guilty, you're going to want the best representation because you know you're guilty, but if you're like I got nothing to hide, I'll represent myself, then it looks like you're not guilty.
Speaker 2:What kind of representation are you going to get with a public defender?
Speaker 1:You could get a good one. You could get somebody who's right out of school, who needs the experience. It's not likely, but he could have just paid for somebody. He could have got Meg to pay for somebody.
Speaker 3:It wasn't always Meg's money he was spending. I also think it's like something to be said for like yes, okay, public defenders don't have as much experience, but it doesn't mean that they're not good.
Speaker 3:And also it's another person to like to yeah right, bounce ideas off of so you're not just like going on a whim right and, depending on where they went to school and what kind of cases they studied, they could have come across something right so, anyways, he moved to a different jail and started to request things like a typewriter, unlimited access to a phone and trips to the law library at the courthouse, because he's like if I'm representing myself, I should have access to everything my public defender would have. He even sold the sheriff on the point. The prisoners should be getting three meals a day, not just two they're not getting three meals a day no, they were only getting two that seems very
Speaker 1:I feel like that seems yeah Sus.
Speaker 2:No, inhumane.
Speaker 1:I mean, they're still human right, exactly, and some of them are waiting to be convicted of something. So, if they haven't been convicted, what happened to innocent?
Speaker 3:until proven guilty. You know, yeah, exactly, it is a good point. It's not an excuse, but it is the 70s.
Speaker 1:But he's a good con artist, right? I mean, yeah, yeah, he conned into every single thing he needed, yep.
Speaker 3:So the day finally came when they had to rule on the death penalty. So June 7th he had on this really odd outfit with prison shoes and I mean odd because it was like he wanted to look nice but like he still had prison boots on, like why? But that's what he wore. And during the recess in court he got to go to the law library. Because again, I'm representing myself, I need to look at law library.
Speaker 3:Whatever yeah makes sense he saw an opportunity because he wasn't shackled. They kind of left him do his thing. Oh gosh, he jumped from the window so an opportunity to escape, yes. Yes, yes, which was several floors up, ran, shed his clothes and he had maps on him and he ran into the woods Then went to town. So then he stole a car.
Speaker 2:This was at the courthouse.
Speaker 3:Yep, yes, Yep. And so I guess there was a bystander, this woman, and she saw Bundy jump out of a window and she went in the courthouse. She was like do people normally jump out of windows here? And they were like fuck. And then that's how they found out he did end up getting caught. He didn't really get far.
Speaker 1:Naked and with a stolen car. Yeah.
Speaker 3:So he was caught on June 13th but honestly I'm pretty impressed that he escaped but anyway. So, because he appeared as a drunk driver, he was tired, he has extra charges. Obviously he looked tired. They obviously had to keep him in shackles. This time he was still given access to the library and phone access, but they kind of were keeping a better eye on him obviously.
Speaker 1:Probably should have been doing that the whole time.
Speaker 2:Yeah, exactly.
Speaker 1:But he's a smooth talker.
Speaker 3:He just he got into these people's heads like, hey, man, I'm like what do you think I'm going to go? What do you think I'm going to do?
Speaker 1:Those are the people that I watch more intently. Like I wasn't thinking about it until you said that.
Speaker 3:Now I that, now I am. So Bundy's back in jail. And here comes December, right? So several months have gone by.
Speaker 3:So he's in a cell. There's a hole where the light is supposed to go and he keeps making it bigger and he starts complaining about the food. So he starts losing weight. And isn't it weird that? So he complains about the food, right? So it's not weird that he's losing weight. It's not weird that he's not eating. He's not weird that he's not eating. He's making a bigger hole in the ceiling which they don't know about. But he made this plan in his head that if I'm not eating the food, they won't feel like they have to wake me up till lunch because they'll leave the breakfast at my cell and I won't eat it. So he made it not strange, okay. But he also wants to lose weight. So he fits into the hole that goes into the ceiling that goes into the warden's house. But he then exits into the warden's closet. He waits for the warden and his wife to go get a drink and go to a movie. He then hops out of the duct, goes into the closet, changes his clothes Into the warden's clothes into the warden's clothes.
Speaker 3:He's not in prison clothes.
Speaker 1:He's wearing clothes this time. Right, he sees that the warden has guns.
Speaker 3:Oh no, hides the guns in the ceiling so they can't get to them right away. Walks out, none the wiser. So again, it's night time. Right the next day comes they leave the food for him. Oh, doesn't eat anyways, so it's not till 17 hours later he has a head start, so smart like so smart book. I was like reading this and I'm like, holy shit, I did not know about this escape at all.
Speaker 1:But you know what I love the most about his attempts to escape? In none of them has he tried to be like aggressive towards anybody, yet he hasn't like he seems like he didn't really want to be aggressive towards anybody. He didn't really seem. I mean he might, you know, go on to do that, but he tried multiple times without being aggressive, without using like blunt force to anything.
Speaker 3:Yeah, yeah he makes it all the way to florida, fucking florida buys a new bug right well, we'll get so many questions about how somebody gets that far, but we'll let you go so he gets to florida, he decides I'm gonna be a student at florida state university and he ate, slept, went class, had a whole different identity. He had a different name, made IDs. He added a mole, a mustache. A mole, a mole.
Speaker 1:I have a mole Every morning. He had to put his little mole on.
Speaker 3:Yeah, he stole food because he didn't have much money. He was also stealing people's credit cards so he could live off of those for a while. He would take cars, but only from well-off people, because I guess there was an incident that he saw a bug. He's a bug lover, as we all know. It had a hundred thousand miles on it and it was newly upholstered, but he thought this could be a young teenager's car. I can't take her car. She probably worked really hard for it, so he made sure he only stole cars from people that could afford.
Speaker 1:It could just be like, whatever, I'll go buy a new one.
Speaker 3:But that's like interesting to me.
Speaker 1:Yeah, because he did have empathy for other people. Yeah, people want to say he didn't care. They want to believe that somebody who's a serial killer is a sociopath. It's not the same thing, right?
Speaker 3:it's not but of course could bundy just lay low and live out his life. No, no no of course not.
Speaker 3:so one night, at a sorority house, a man was seen fleeing late at night, early morning, with a bat or like a piece of wood, leaving two girls waking up with broken jaws, missing teeth, skull fractures and severe trauma. So, as the cops were called, they found the girls that they were sleeping and they got assaulted. Uh, they took inventory of the girls wanting to ask questions. So like I don't know much about greek life, but usually they have a sorority mother that will help take care of them. So the sorority mother is like all right, here's's her Sally, nancy and whatever. And they were like well, we're missing two girls. So next was Lisa Levy and she was still in bed and so like oh, let's shake her awake. We got to get her awake and they try waking her up. She wasn't waking up, she appeared to be strangled Her underwear was on the floor.
Speaker 3:There was a small bloodstain underneath her and her right nipple was also bit, almost all the way off.
Speaker 2:Ow.
Speaker 3:Yes, there were bite marks on her butt which is going to come in key during his trial, because he had a specific gap almost in his teeth. That would help show like those are bundy's teeth marks interesting, um, she was sexually assaulted but it was with a hair mist bottle because they found a bottle mist bottle yeah, kind of like I think it's like an aerosol spray bottle.
Speaker 1:Yeah, kind of like that.
Speaker 3:Yeah, like hairspray, they come in those big but they found hair and feces basically on the hairball, so they know she was sodomized with it.
Speaker 2:Oh.
Speaker 3:That's horrible. Next is Margaret Bowman. She was found face down. Nylon stocking was wrapped around her neck. Her head was bashed in so you could see her brain. Her panties were also on the floor. So there was a lot of trauma in this one house.
Speaker 2:Girls that would? We're sorry, were these the two girls that had, uh, the her their face smashed, in that you said there was girls that had teeth missing?
Speaker 3:yes, so there were two girls he actually killed and then there were other two girls that he assaulted.
Speaker 1:That had broken jaws, so he maybe attempted to murder them as well and then just didn't.
Speaker 3:Or yes, perhaps they woke up and they fought back the selfie thing about it was that this was a weekend, so there were girls coming home late at night, but he somehow maintained this way of not being noticed. Um, excuse me, so like when he was in other girls rooms, other girls were coming home and like they would literally miss him in the hallway hmm, hmm, so I mean those, those houses.
Speaker 1:I mean again, I don't know much about greek life either. Yeah, I would imagine that they're used to hearing people being loud at night and doing different things, and so you're probably like, oh, something's banging around in there. Well right, who? I don't know who's doing what in there or seeing random, random guys.
Speaker 2:You know Right, maybe someone brought a boy back, right? You know, and he's just leaving or he's walking through.
Speaker 3:Well, from what I read, I don't know if they're allowed to do that. Yeah, from what I read, there were strict rules. It was like have fun but like.
Speaker 1:But maybe they thought somebody was sneaking a guy in so they were like we're anything or stop him because we don't want to.
Speaker 3:You know, burst that person's bubble from at least her book. It was only one girl that saw bundy fleeing, because she literally hid and she's like what is that noise? And she saw him fleeing with a mask and the bludgeoned object which they seem to think it might have been just a big log or piece of wood that he got from um outside the house so it wasn't a baseball bat it was either a bat or something shaped like a bat, but it just seemed like opportunistic. My weapon's right here.
Speaker 1:I'm gonna go, so maybe he didn't put a lot of thought into it. He just was like here's an opportunity, I'm passing this place we know he's really nocturnal.
Speaker 3:Maybe he was just walking around campus and he saw an opportunity. So later that night it's not over there were three girls not far from campus that were sharing a house Cheryl Thomas. She had had a great night. Her neighbors were hearing noises. So with this house it was like split in two. So Cheryl Thomas was on one side and there were two girls on the other. So her friends that were living on either side of of her they kept hearing like these really weird noises and they knew something was wrong because, like the banging sound sounded like it was underneath the house. They were like what the hell is that? Yeah, um, and then they started hearing like this moaning noise and it wasn't it wasn't that good kind of moaning.
Speaker 3:Everybody like they were like something's wrong. So one of the girls called her boyfriend. He's like, don't worry about it, just talk to her in the morning. It's like, no, like you know that gut feeling like something is wrong, something's going on with my friend. They ended up calling 911 and, sure enough, cheryl was beaten, but she was still alive. So out of the three women injured though that night because there was two at sorority and then this one Cheryl's injuries were the worst. Her skull was fractured in five different places. She has permanent hearing loss in her left ear. Her jaw was broken, her left shoulder was dislocated and her eighth cranial nerve was damaged, which caused difficulty with her equilibrium. Yeah, nerve was damaged, which caused difficulty with her equilibrium, which helped she walked with a distinct limp. But the saddest part was she was a dancer, so she couldn't dance right anymore. Yeah, I know that part. I was like oh god yeah.
Speaker 1:So the one thing that brought her joy, that would have been probably therapeutic for her. She couldn't do anymore.
Speaker 3:Yeah, she wanted to be a professional dancer. Um. So of course, bundy doesn't stop there, he starts going younger.
Speaker 1:It's almost like he was on a diet and then he just binged Right.
Speaker 2:What's the time frame? Is this like day after day, or is this like during a week, a month?
Speaker 3:So the sorority girls and Cheryl were all one night.
Speaker 2:Okay.
Speaker 3:So for some reason he wasn't satisfied with, he killed two and injured three um, this one was on february 8th 1978 and the other one, let's see, I want to say, could have been far off from that. It was like january, late january, they weren't that far apart. So, february 8, 1978, 14 year old leslie ann left school, crossed her street to wait for her brother to pick her up. And I give this girl credit though, because she's still well, she lived um. Bundy pulls up claims he's a fireman in this, like white truck that's why they aren't actually more like it and he starts asking her like really strange questions. And her dad's a detective. So she's like smart girl, suspicious, like who the fuck are you? Um, the brother arrives, thank goodness, and he's like what the fuck do you want? Like, leave my sister alone. Bye-bye, bundy ends up leaving and of course they tell the dad about the situation. Of course he's really proud of his daughter, but like who's this weirdo driving in a van coming to be a fireman?
Speaker 2:yeah, was it a van or a truck?
Speaker 3:it was was a van. It was a van. I fixed it, though I said it was a van. Okay, 12-year-old oh gosh, kimberly Diane Leach. She was in school. She had forgotten her purse in the homeroom, which apparently was in a different building. So she asked her teacher like hey, can I go get it? Okay, so she ends up going with a friend to the other separate building and she ends up getting her purse, and then her friend's like oh, I forgot something too. So she goes farther back into the building. When she comes back out she sees kim going to this white van with this man and she's like I mean, I'm sure, as a 12 year old girl, you're like, okay, that's weird, but maybe she knows him. Yeah, at 12 years old, I can't see myself stopping a friend either At 12?.
Speaker 1:Maybe if, like, they came back, I would have said to them but probably not if there was an adult standing there, yeah, at 12, I probably would have been like, oh, do you know that person? If they were alone, right, I wouldn't have said it in front of them, I don't think strange things, but they didn't say anything.
Speaker 3:And, like you said earlier tonight, right, hindsight's, 2020, we know what we know now. But, like, if I saw this, I probably would think the same thing. So a crossing guard saw this white van in a no park zone and to him he's like, oh my god, this is so annoying, you're making my job more difficult. And just moved on with his day. A firefighter that was off duty saw Bundy yelling at Kim while getting her into a van and he thinks upset parent, this kid's in trouble. The kid did something, didn't think anything of it. The school ends up calling the parents later in the day. It's like, hey, is Kim sick? Like she hasn't been here and like, wait, talking about my kids to be at school, right, and that's really what set off the whole investigation for her. Um, anyways, he ended up taking her.
Speaker 3:So bundy had a run with police in florida uh, I guess he was cooperative until police got suspicious about him. He then ran, jumped over a wall and he was gone. He left his apartment and wiped down everything. So he ran from police, goes back to the apartment he'd been renting, wiped down all the surfaces of everywhere his fingerprints could bend and he was on the run again. So Bundy was moving again, going west. So February 15th he was stopped for stolen plates with a vw bug uh, you would mix it up to throw them off he liked bugs and he actually said why.
Speaker 3:He said they were really good on gas and the passenger seat came out.
Speaker 1:The passenger seat comes out of every car if you unscrew it right, I'm, I'm not wrong on that right.
Speaker 2:It must have been so much easier.
Speaker 1:It must have, it must have been a pop out or something it's a one time thing. It's not like he was putting it back, he was leaving it on the side of the road someplace.
Speaker 2:Where are you seeing it? I don't know.
Speaker 1:Oh man.
Speaker 3:So Bundy talked, finally cuffed, and the guy gets him. They ask Bundy his real name, he won't tell them. He soon told them. But the games persisted Like well, I'll tell you this, but I'm not going to tell you this. Well, I'll tell you this, but I'm not going to tell you this.
Speaker 1:And he was having fun, he was talking to them.
Speaker 2:And this is way before computers or CODIS or you know the national database for criminals and stuff like that.
Speaker 3:Right. So they ended up recording him, um, and, if I'm not mistaken, there are a couple of documentaries actually to have some of these recordings on there, so it's really creepy to hear his voice. Uh, so recorded and off the record he, he would be around the bush with detectives not saying the complete truth, but not like not saying it, um, never giving a straight answer. And that's when he ends up telling them about the bugs, like why, why vw bugs? And he was like they're good on gas and the seat comes out in the front which kind of gives him away a little bit.
Speaker 1:Anyways, yeah, maybe that's where lewis lent got all of his tips from, because he does the same thing with police still every other year. He's like I'll tell you something if you, and they'll take him out and he gets to go on a field trip. And then he's like, oh, maybe I'm wrong. Yeah, and they fall for it every time, but he's caught, he's in Florida.
Speaker 3:We'll have to see what comes next. Dun, dun dun.
Speaker 2:That's it Until next episode, until next time.
Speaker 3:But more to come. That will probably be Ted Bundy number four.
Speaker 2:I always say this but that will probably be it.
Speaker 3:We got to get to the trial and how he did get the death penalty and all that. There's a lot to say when it comes to Ted Bundy and he doesn't end up getting married.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 3:So we'll have to talk about that.
Speaker 2:Spoiler alert. Spoiler alert. All right, we want to do a card.
Speaker 3:Yes, all right.
Speaker 2:Do us the honors, rob oh you want me to do it, yeah?
Speaker 1:Why not?
Speaker 2:I never do it.
Speaker 1:Welcome back. We missed you.
Speaker 2:I wasn't even greeted when we began the episode.
Speaker 3:Oh honey, I'm sorry you want to redo the greeting no.
Speaker 2:Oh honey, I'm sorry you want to redo the greeting.
Speaker 1:No.
Speaker 3:Rob, why didn't you say something? Honey, I feel bad, I didn't mean to do that.
Speaker 1:I didn't even notice it because we went off trying to record the thing.
Speaker 2:All right, so we got King of Diamonds. It's a missing persons, lynn Burdick. On April 17th 1982, lynn Burdick was working alone at the Barefoot Peddlers County store in Florida. She disappeared between 8 pm and 8.45 pm from that store and has been missing since that date. If you have any information on this case, please call 1-855-MA-SOLVE.
Speaker 3:Dude, that's so creepy how you picked that card.
Speaker 1:That's literally the case. That lives rent free and my mom went to school with her in high school when she went missing From Florida, Mass.
Speaker 2:So that was going to be my question why, oh Florida, okay, florida, mass, not Florida the state I got the chills when you said that.
Speaker 1:Anybody who listens knows that Hannah had asked me during a bonus episode a couple months ago if I had any cases that I thought about all the time, and Lynn Burdick, without a question, is one that I've spent most of my life thinking about, because my mom went to school with her in North Adams, and so it's really strange that that's the card that you picked.
Speaker 2:Wow, okay, so we're going to be doing an episode about her.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I mean, we definitely can.
Speaker 2:So Barefoot, peddler's County Store yeah.
Speaker 1:And the store is no longer there anymore. They've taken the country store down Barefoot.
Speaker 2:Peddler's Country Store. I'm sorry, I'm going to need glasses soon In Florida. When I said Florida.
Speaker 1:I'm like why are we talking about this in mass? For a long time they tried to link her to Lewis Lent also, which is funny because I just mentioned him. It's very interesting how the world does matter. It was April. You said right that she went missing.
Speaker 2:April 17th 1982. April 17th 1982.
Speaker 1:Wow, yep, wow, a very sad case. Oh, lynn, now you're going to beat my head again. If your family is listening. I think about Lynn all the time.
Speaker 3:Well, thank you, Rob, for that. Appreciate it.
Speaker 2:And there's more bundy to come. And thank you, hannah, loved all three episodes. I'm I'm glad I'm back. I've been gone gone for a couple weeks because of the biggie been very, very busy but I'll do a shameless plug for you.
Speaker 1:If you haven't checked out beers, that fits. He was doing lots recording. He has lots of exciting stuff coming on. If you love hearing Rob, like we all do, go give him some love on his own show.
Speaker 2:I appreciate that.
Speaker 1:It's pretty good. I always listen to the intro whenever it's coming in on ours. I'm like, yeah, that's Rob.
Speaker 2:And.
Speaker 1:Hannah's probably on that one too, so you'll get to hear her too. Yeah.
Speaker 2:Just one so far. Yeah, it's fun.
Speaker 1:It's a good time, both of you were on episode two because it was at the big e. Oh, that's right, I have to catch up.
Speaker 2:Because of the long weekend, I haven't listened to any podcast since, like thursday of last week okay so I usually listen to my podcast while I drive to work well, thank you guys, this was a good time yes, thank you very much and thank you wonders for sticking with us yes, make sure to go like our TikToks, because once we hit 1,000 likes we can go live and you can see this shit show while we're recording, and you can see me sleeping because I was taking a nap during this episode.
Speaker 1:I was wondering if he was going to say it himself or if we were going to have to call him out. There's a reason why Rob doesn't put a camera on himself.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I don't know these drinks, they just made me very tired.
Speaker 1:It's because you didn't have another one. You sat there for an hour without one yeah. Listening to Hannah go on about Bundy, but Hannah's voice is so soothing.
Speaker 2:I had Kenzie on me and it was just very relaxing. I closed my eyes.
Speaker 1:Hannah, you should record your own ASMR for Rob. There you go and if you do, typing sounds, I'll also take some.
Speaker 3:Well, thank you, wanderers, we'll catch you next time.
Speaker 1:See you next time. Bye.
Speaker 3:Bye. Thanks for listening today. Wicked Wanderings is hosted by me, Hannah, and co-hosted by me.
Speaker 2:Courtney, and it's produced by Rob Fitzpatrick.
Speaker 3:Music by Sasha M. If you enjoyed today's episode, don't forget to leave a rating and review and be sure to follow on all socials. You can find the links down in the show notes. If you're looking for some really cozy t-shirts or hoodies, head over to the merch store. Thank you for being a part of the Wicked Wanderings community. We appreciate every one of you. Stay curious, keep exploring and always remember to keep on wandering. Thank you.
