Ep. 70: Goody Ann Glover

Anne Glover's tragic story reveals the intersection of fear, prejudice, and injustice that characterized the witch trials of the 17th century in Boston. Through her tale, we explore themes of cultural misunderstanding, the role of language and religion, and the societal consequences for those deemed different or "other." 

• Introduction of Anne Glover as a key historical figure 
• Background of immigration and indentured servitude 
• The accusation stemming from a domestic dispute 
• The role of spectral evidence in Glover’s trial 
• Cotton Mather's influence and writings regarding Glover 
• The implications of language and cultural barrier in her trial 
• The execution and legacy of Anne Glover 
• Exploration of Puritanism and its impact on society 
• The continuing relevance of Glover’s story in contemporary discussions about prejudice 

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Transcript

Wicked Wanderings

Mom 0:06

I don't like that things that look like that so close to my face.

Johnathan 0:10

Well then, take it off. What, Hannah? Take it off.

Hannah 0:14

Take the condom off. Here we go, oh no.

Mom 0:17

I brought the condom on. That's what she said.

Courtney 0:21

That was a properly used one.

Mom 0:22

Yes.

Courtney 0:23

I'm glad I have this.

Hannah 0:25

Was that better? Was that better? I have nothing left. Okay, hi, I'm Hannah and I'm Courtney.

Courtney 0:47

Join us as we delve into true crime, paranormal encounters and all things spooky.

Hannah 0:49

Grab your flashlight and get ready to wander into the darkness with us.

Courtney 0:53

This is Wicked.

Hannah 0:54

Wanderings. Hello wanderanderers, hi Courtney, hi Hannah, hi Rob, hi, we are back with another Wiggy Wanderings episode, with a special guest episode and an extra special guest, woo-hoo. So hello, jonathan.

Johnathan 1:29

Who's who? Who's the extra special guest?

Hannah 1:31

Yeah, you're just the regular guest, Well you're the extra special guest because she's the special guest doing the episode. Oh, so hello extra special guest Jonathan Whoop whoop. Hi and here is the special guest who's doing the episode. Hello, Mom. Hi Hannah, Hi Courtney, Thank you for coming on.

Mom 1:46

Hi extra special guest Jonathan, hi Ma and Rob.

Hannah 1:51

Hello, I hope everyone's new year is going well. It is January 8th right now and we've had a whole week of this new year 2025.

Courtney 2:02

A whole week of writing 2024, when we should have wrote 2025.

Hannah 2:06

Yeah, exactly, love it. Mom, you have the floor. What do you have for us today? I don't have to get on the floor. Mom's got jokes today.

Mom 2:17

You have the chair. Lynn, you have the chair. I have the chair.

Hannah 2:21

Break a leg Break a leg.

Mom 2:24

So today I would like to talk about Mrs Goody Goody Ann Glover.

Mom 2:30

Ooh so Goody just means Mrs Goody Goody Ann Glover. Ooh so Goody just means Mrs, and her name is Ann Glover and, as my family knows, I recently went to Ireland, spent 10 wonderful days there, didn't want to come home, asked them to ship my dog I would have stayed. So I'm currently obsessed with all things Irish, including our heritage and a lot of history. So, as I've been doing a lot trying to understand the reasons people left Ireland during the Great Hunger and the Civil War and why my grandmother left and a lot of her family, I came across the case of Anne Glover, who was an Irish immigrant, came to Boston via Barbados. So she and her husband were originally from Ireland and during the time of Cromwell, when he was forcing people out and they became indentured servants and they were being pushed out of Ireland, especially the Catholics, they ended up going down out of Ireland, especially the Catholics. They ended up going down to Barbados as indentured servants and there her husband was killed for not renouncing his Catholic faith.

Johnathan 3:41

And this is 1600?.

Mom 3:43

So this is 1688. So this is prior to the Salem witch trials. So Salem is about 1692. So we're talking four years prior to all that After the Pendle witch trials in England. We see some similarities through all of the witch trials. But, yes, definitely predates Salem. And the interesting thing is when I started reading about this is our old friend Cotton Mather. Oh, dear Wanderers, if you haven't listened to the Salem Witch Trials, the episodes that were done, and the Springfield Witch Trials.

Mom 4:20

About a year and a half ago. This is really interesting and Cotton shows up in a really more of a definitive way in this trial. As we know, in the Salem Witch Trials Cotton Mather actually wrote the kind of the postscript on it. He's the one that wrote the book of everything that happened. He was given access to all the judicial records and chronicles and he kind of put it together. He only was in Salem once but he did caution them against the use of spectral evidence. So he was he and his father both. But we'll get to Cotton. We'll get to Cotton.

Hannah 4:59

And I do apologize, I'm not looking at you, mom. It's quite a strain.

Mom 5:03

Sorry, I'm sitting next to you, it's alright.

Hannah 5:05

Just letting you know.

Mom 5:06

So if you're not familiar with this part of the country, danvers, which is where the Salem Witch Trials took place, is about 20 miles give or take from Boston proper, and so this is not next door, it is within traveling distance. So it's not that far and you certainly would be shared. So we'll see a lot of similarities. What happened later on the Salem Witch Trials? Because our friend Cotton did write a book about the Ann Glover Trials which actually became almost like a primer of what to do to make sure that you execute witches, bad witches, except the Salem witch trials just took it to an nth degree, right. So poor young Glover. So they say she was an elderly, old hag. By looking at some of the dates of, I'm thinking she was probably in her late 40s.

Courtney 6:09

Oh God, I'm approaching, hag probably in her late 40s. Oh God, I'm approaching, hag I'm approaching quickly.

Hannah 6:14

So I think we're at spinster right now, and then comes hag.

Mom 6:20

That's what I would think.

Courtney 6:20

Quick descent.

Mom 6:21

Yep. So Anne, as I said, anne was kicked out as an indentured servant, went to Barbados, ended up making her way, escaping. I don't know how she ended up in Boston with her daughter, mary, and a cat, which you know you can't have an old woman and a cat Witch. Witch she's a witch, you're a witch, right.

Hannah 6:46

Never mind if you have a teat or two.

Mom 6:51

So again, she was part of that. 50,000 people that were deported and it was just a really terrible time for Ireland. There were 15,000 to 20,000 people that were killed on the battlefield and they said 200,000 to 600,000 civilian casualties from violence, famine and disease. So Cromwell was a Puritan and he took lands from people and actually helped to move along that prejudice against the Irish and against Catholics, and if you were both, that was really bad.

Hannah 7:26

Which is so ironic because the Puritans, their whole platform was they didn't have religious freedom. Exactly so just very ironic. No, the Puritans, their whole platform was they didn't have religious freedom, Exactly so just very ironic.

Johnathan 7:33

No, the Puritans didn't care about religious freedom at all. For themselves, though. Well, it wasn't religious freedom, it was literally purifying the Church of England. They didn't want anybody else to have any other say.

Mom 7:46

Yeah, because they felt that the Church of England, the CVE, had a lot of Roman Catholic tendencies in a ritual and stuff. But, you're right, the Puritans. So we'll see what caught Mather's family, his grandparents one of his grandfathers was actually either left or kicked out had been in Suffolk in the UK well, england, at the time, and because of his Puritan beliefs. But Puritans are not pilgrims. So Puritans are very religious fanatics who believe a certain way is the only way and the right way and they're the only ones that know it. Very similar to some of our really extreme evangelicals today.

Hannah 8:30

Not any different at all, like some of our really extreme evangelicals today, not any different at all Like some of our relatives. Yeah, well, not my relatives my relatives, johnny's relatives.

Courtney 8:39

Not my relatives.

Mom 8:42

Anyway. So here's poor Anne. She's a widow woman living there and she becomes a good wife. She becomes a housekeeper. She's doing laundry and cleaning up and doing all of that. She was a domestic laborer. She actually went to work for this gentleman who had six children and he had a wife too. Okay, so here she is, living in Boston. She comes here about 1680. She's working alongside with her daughter now as a domestic servant for John Goodwin, who's actually a stonemason. He's in a firmly established Boston family, very strong Puritans that she's working for, and Martha Goodwin, the 13-year-old daughter who was the second in birth order. She has an older brother. She accuses either Anne or the daughter of stealing laundry. So, poor Anne, she, as any mother would do or anyone accused of stealing who's very poverty-stricken, she goes after this girl and she lets her have a tongue lashing. Shortly after the girl falls ill.

Hannah 9:56

See where this is going. Witch, she's a witch.

Mom 10:00

So she's got an older brother who's never afflicted, and she has a very young baby, actually, whose name is Hannah, who's just a year old. She never becomes afflicted, but the four children in the middle all become afflicted with strange seizures and barking and making noises and having pain only during the day, but at night, when they went to sleep, they weren't afflicted by anything, right? So they bring a doctor in, right?

Courtney 10:30

Psychology could do a lot with that one.

Mom 10:32

So they bring this Dr Oaks in and he comes in and he says, well, it has to be witchcraft, it has to be witchcraft.

Courtney 10:39

A doctor said that I wish I could use that when someone asked me about their kid's behavior. It has to be witchcraft.

Johnathan 10:44

I can't figure it out.

Mom 10:45

So it's definitely witchcraft. So poor Ann has a reputation in the neighborhood of being a little crazy. So, ann, she's Catholic. Ann, she doesn't speak English very well. So they all said, oh, it's got to be Ann. You know, we had this altercation about some missing laundry, and so now my kids are sick. And then, of course, all the neighbors come in and one neighbor says oh, my son dreamt that she came down the chimney to torment him and stuff.

Mom 11:19

So this was this whole thing about spectral evidence. You know you're not supposed to believe anything like that. So anyways, our good old friend Cotton Mather, he comes in. This is what he writes and I'm going to quote here, like Hannah Lewis and here I am quoting, here I am quoting Cotton says she's a scandalous old Irish woman, very poor, a Roman Catholic and obstinate in her idolatry.

Mom 11:48

So during her trial, so they bring her, this poor woman, to trial. So Cotton Mather's there for all of this. They bring her to trial and I tell her recite the Lord's Prayer, because if you can't say the Our Father in English, then you're a witch. It has to be in English.

Courtney 12:03

But she doesn't speak fluent English. No.

Mom 12:05

So this woman says the Our Father in Gaelic, irish, her native tongue, and then says it in Latin. Now we've got to remember. Up until about the 1970s, all the masses I remember as a kid Catholic masses were all in Latin. My father, who never spoke anything other than English, could tell you the whole mass in Latin because he was an altar boy. So she can say it in Latin, she can say it in what they think is Gaelic, but she can't say it in English. So that meant she was guilty.

Hannah 12:39

And nowadays we call that intelligent.

Mom 12:42

Yes, almost three languages, yeah she could speak two languages and stuff.

Johnathan 12:47

Ma a quick question Do we know where the John Goodwin house was in Boston? I? Do not, I'd be really interested to hear where that is, or was rather yeah.

Mom 13:00

So remember, cotton is actually a co-pastor at the. It was the Congregationalist Church, which has been in seven or eight locations in Boston. I'm not sure the exact timing of where that was then. But we'll get to good old cotton in a minute. But I wanted to talk about Anne for a second.

The Unfortunate Fate of a Widow

Mom 13:20

So she comes out of Ireland and there's a history of witchcraft. The first witchcraft trials were back in the 1300s. She's been persecuted for her religion. She's gone to Barbados. Those were called coffin ships that they sent the Irish down in. She managed to live through that. She has a child. She's gone to Barbados. Those were called coffin ships that they sent the Irish down in. She managed to live through that. She has a child. She loses her husband.

Mom 13:38

She ends up in Boston. She can't speak the language. She's in with Puritans. They hate her because, number one, she's widowed. Number two, she's Irish. Number three, she can't speak English and she's an old hag of what 45. So the poor woman, she never had a chance. Honestly, she never had a chance. And in Ireland it's very common for them to have wise women or healers, and they also. There's a whole cult of fairies. My grandmother used to talk about the fairies and she was a very Irish Catholic but there was a whole culture of believing in the fairy people and sometimes they were good fairy people and sometimes they were not so nice fairy people, the fae, the fae why there's some great book recommendations.

Courtney 14:23

I was just gonna say Hannah's little bookworm, I can see it turning Love my fantasy fae books.

Hannah 14:29

Anyways, oh, we could talk later. Why are you?

Johnathan 14:34

It just caught up with me what you really meant. It's smut, isn't it?

Courtney 14:39

Not all of them are smut. Some, you know, depends. Is that what you want?

Johnathan 14:45

No, I thought it was more of like the history of the Fae.

Hannah 14:47

Oh, no, oh, no, no, no. It's like fantasy.

Johnathan 14:50

And then you were like fantasy and I was like, oh, that sounds great. And then I realized, oh no.

Courtney 14:53

Fantasy Faye.

Johnathan 14:55

She does yeah no.

Courtney 14:56

If we come across a good just Faye history we'll let you know.

Johnathan 15:00

Yes, thank you.

Hannah 15:01

You're welcome.

Johnathan 15:02

Sorry mom, please continue. No, don't be sorry, your daughter's awful, I'm a good girl.

Courtney 15:10

We wouldn't go that far.

Johnathan 15:11

You hag.

Courtney 15:13

She has not approached hag yet. She has like 10 whole years.

Hannah 15:18

I got you. I may have teats, but I have several. Three, I have three, damn it. I'll have to count them later.

Mom 15:28

Okay, so Cotton Mather, who is in Boston and he's got his own issues and I can't wait to talk about what those are. He shows up and he starts interrogating her in her cell at night, where supposedly she is praying to her. What she says to an interpreter comes out as spirits. I'm thinking that she's probably praying to saints.

Courtney 15:57

Yeah, that would make sense.

Mom 15:59

You know she's Catholic, so she's probably praying to St Anthony and St Bridget, and you know St Catherine.

Mom 16:06

Whatever saint will listen, you know whatever saint will listen, and the Irish have a really close connection with the saints. I remember I had a great aunt who was a nun and was Irish and we went in one time into her cell and she had her statue of St Anthony, which was her favorite saint, and his face was turned to the wall. And my mother said Sister, mary, stella, why is St Anthony facing the wall? And she said well, I prayed to him and he didn't answer me. So I got mad and turned him around.

Mom 16:39

So there's a real strong connection between these people and their faith and their saints. He's saying, yes, I've been praying to these spirits, and so, mather, through the interpreter whether they could speak Gaelic or not was another thing she said, oh my gosh, these are demons she's praying to. So they go to her house and they find these little dolls. Now, whether they're icons for her to pray to her saints, whether they were puppets, I wonder. In Barbados there's a really strong culture of voodoo. I mean, who knows, you know? I mean I don't think she had anything. I personally, from what I read, she seemed like she was a really strong Catholic woman, but she also had a really what we always called an Irish temper and when people would say stuff to her she would yell at them. But at one point they thought she was speaking in tongues because she was speaking Gaelic, her native language, and they were thinking she was speaking in tongues, which was not a Puritan thing, or she was communicating in the devil's word. This poor woman could not catch a break.

Mom 17:46

She really could not catch a break.

Courtney 17:47

The cards were definitely not in her favor.

Mom 17:49

No. So he says in his own writings that he cannot speak Gaelic, but he's pretty sure what she was saying. So I don't know if that's better than I. So anyways, we don't know who the translators were. We don't know if they were actually understood. They were concerned about our mental health, so they brought all these physicians in to assess our mental health. So they brought all these physicians in to assess their mental health. Again, these are English speaking male doctors talking to this Irish woman about her mental health and they were saying oh yeah, she's fine. Yeah, she's fine. So I think that's just prejudice and ignorance. I don't know any other way to categorize that. So they said she was mentally competent and she was executed. She told them on the way to be hung that her death would not relieve the children of their illness. Now she was. She was trying to tell them.

Courtney 18:43

I think was this isn't how to fix it, and she didn't do it. She's like I'm not connected to this.

Mom 18:49

And even Mather wrote after that he believes that she was in league with someone else and that he said right in his writings he did say that he thought there was someone she was in league with and he even said that when she was executed that the children would not get any better. So I'm wondering if he was trying to kind of cover his tracks. Maybe I don't know. Anyway, so she dies November 18 18, 1688. They hung her in what is now the south end neighborhood, uh, on the current site of the holy cross cathedral, which to me is good for you, and I mean at least you're on. They built the cathedral only, uh, I googled it, john, 0.2 miles from your neighborhood.

Johnathan 19:35

Yep, I live right around the corner from the Roman Catholic Cathedral.

Mom 19:38

Yeah, you can see it, almost see it from your front door. Yeah, so they said she was hung there. A lot of people want to believe she was hung on the elm. That was in.

Johnathan 19:50

The hanging tree on the common.

Mom 19:51

Yeah, but they said that probably wasn't where it happened. She was the last person that was executed for witchcraft, but just in researching this, I found there were thousands of people that were buried on the common, which just totally creeps me out. They had mass graves, they had indigenous people. The Puritans were killing the Quakers. The Puritans were just a real issue, you know but one thing I wanted to mention.

Johnathan 20:19

I mentioned this before. We were um talking offline about your podcast, uh topic, um and um, and I told you how interesting I thought history of washington street, um, which is the, the main artery that takes you from basically downtown Boston with the common straight out to Roxbury is, and along the way that, where the Roman Catholic cathedral is and that's where we're not just the your person would have been hanged, but also traitors and pirates and other people accused of witchcraft. Tons of people would have been hanged out there. Yeah, because when we look at the map of Boston, the majority of it is filled in land from the 19th century, including the South End.

Mom 21:11

Yeah.

Puritan History and Family Legacy

Johnathan 21:11

But basically Boston was technically a peninsula, but more like a tiny island, which is today's Boston Common, a little bit of Beacon Hill, a little bit of downtown, a little bit of the North End and West End, and then this very skinny land bridge which is modern day Washington Street, which would have basically taken you from modern downtown Boston straight out to Roxbury, with water and swamp on either side. So, very close to the Roman Catholic Cathedral is an intersection, probably just a block or two up closer to downtown, called the Boston Neck, and that's where the city gate would have been for Boston. So she would have been hanged, just like many other people would have been hanged outside of the gate, but basically along the only main highway and then a few blocks further walking away from downtown Boston towards Roxbury.

Johnathan 22:11

On Washington Street is a very old cemetery. Most graves aren't marked, and it would have been a place for the undesirable people who had been hanged outside the city walls to be buried as well. There's a lot of really interesting history about why modern-day Washington Street is so important.

Hannah 22:29

Is there a monument or a plaque or something, for her at least?

Mom 22:32

They actually had a goodie glove every day or something, whatever it was in Boston, to kind of say hmm guess what? Oops, sorry, you made a mistake.

Hannah 22:43

Kind of what Salem did for all the witches quote-unquote that were hung in Salem they gave them.

Johnathan 22:49

Yes, I wonder if there's anything in the cathedral.

Mom 22:52

I don't know, that would be a good spot.

Johnathan 22:54

Yeah, because I mean she's almost a martyr when you think about it. That would be a good spot. Yeah, because I mean she's almost a martyr when you think about it.

Mom 22:58

Yeah, I mean she was, and I think they realized that 300 years later. Yeah, we made a mistake, you know, but we really have to understand how strong the Puritan connection to Boston was. I mean, a lot of them were there. They had no religious tolerance at all. The Quakers. The king finally reached out to them and said stop executing Quakers. You got to stop because the Quakers were very steadfast.

Hannah 23:27

They're very peaceful people, the Quakers.

Mom 23:30

But they're also very steadfast in their beliefs. So they were told not to come into Boston proper. They were cut off an ear. The second time they were cut off another ear and then the third time they would execute them. There were indigenous people that they killed. They really had no tolerance for anybody that wasn't a Puritan.

Hannah 23:47

Was it the Puritan that believed in predestination for salvation?

Johnathan 23:51

I think that's right, because who's the guy that's?

Hannah 23:53

buried. Okay, yeah, there's a guy that's buried up in Northampton buried.

Mom 23:58

Okay, yeah, there's a guy that's buried up in northampton. Oh, I know you're talking about?

Johnathan 24:00

I mean now we're getting into the 1700s.

Hannah 24:02

I know, but in the hands of an angry god yeah yeah, that was his famous I remember learning that with pastor graham did you go on that field trip um no, we didn't go to northampton maybe I'm sodom gomorrah yeah, bring a little christian glass too. Surprise I'm still gay johnny, we wouldn't want you any other way.

Mom 24:29

Good live your truth, baby, live your truth. So anyways, her poor daughter mary has a.

Hannah 24:37

Well, they probably made her watch too.

Mom 24:40

Yeah, yeah she had a total breakdown. There were a lot of people that booed her during the execution, but there was one person that said this was absolutely ridiculous. This woman did nothing but be who she was and said you killed somebody. But here we go. So this is after. I think this is where it gets interesting. I feel bad for this woman, no doubt, but this is where it gets interesting. So Cotton Mather has these four of six children right that are not getting better. So he takes the oldest daughter into his house to live with him so that he can pray and fast. And this happened at Pendle Witch Trials. This happened in the Salem Witch Trials, where someone would take one of the kids in. It was almost like they were coaching them and this girl was not getting better. He was just not getting better.

Hannah 25:32

This is the bratty 13-year-old.

Mom 25:34

This is a bratty 13-year-old.

Hannah 25:36

Martha.

Mom 25:39

Right, yeah, yeah. So anyways, the younger three children to get martha out of the house. Younger children go back to normal. Hmm, interesting surprise. And the eldest son, who was probably august 15, 16 at the time, and the baby never impacted at all. There is a report where she tries to throw herself into the fire and they were saying it was demons. And I'm going no, that's just a guilty conscience, right? But Cotten has some problems, and this is the other part of the story is that he's a well-educated Puritan. He actually was admitted to Harvard. Now, harvard's not the Harvard we know. Now Harvard was a seminary. It was, you know, it's where. The Harvard we know now Harvard was a seminary.

Hannah 26:18

It was Only men too right.

Mom 26:20

Only men, only Puritans. Very, very different than the university that's just so well-known right now.

Hannah 26:27

It's not the Gilmore Girls Harvard.

Mom 26:30

He goes to Harvard and he's there for a couple months. He's so badly bullied he goes home, he runs home and he tries it again. But he's so badly bullied he goes home, he runs home when, where I know? And he tries it again. But he was awfully young, at 11, but it had a lot to do with his father's position with the school. So I have a quote and here I am quoting, by his peers and they said that he was aggressive, vain and a genius. He had over 400 published writings. He also competed with his father. He never could quite live up to his father's reputation. His father's name is Increase Mather. So you know the Puritans, they have these great names, like when you're born, they kind of name you like.

Mom 27:16

You know, like like she could be like God's grace every day, you know. But that would be her first name. So his father's name was increased he's Cotton, which was his grandfather's name on his on his mother's side. That's how he became Cotton Mather. How he became Cotton Mather Because he has so many issues and because he also that religious zeal.

Mom 27:42

It kind of was like a lethal combination. You know he came from a very prestigious Boston family. He did have a speech defect which caused him to stutter and could be part of the reason he was bullied when he first went to school. He did return to Harvard and got his BA and MA. He was very young. His father was the Harvard president then, so they probably had some insulation from the bullying. It did say he lived in his father's shadow. They did have a following out during the Salem witch trials. His father didn't care for the way that Cotton was, I don't know writing about it or something, but they did have. They are actually both buried in the Cobbs Hill Cemetery. They're both there. They have a family plot there that we can see.

Mom 28:30

But I just think it was like the perfect storm of some really bad things happening when this poor woman who escaped Ireland that came back from Barbados, thought she was coming to the new world for opportunity, and just because they didn't understand how she was or didn't speak her language, she was executed. And then you've got Kant Mather. You've got someone who's got some real parental issues, very well-educated, strong Boston family, and then writing, writing about it, writing about it and then getting involved in the Salem Witch Trials. So I think they thought he was really brilliant for a while. But they said his reputation has really taken a hit over the last decades. People are blaming him for a lot, but he really was not that involved with the Salem witch trials. But he's definitely here. He is handling interrogations, he's handling misinformation and, you know, taking a 13-year-old girl to live in his house after to, you know, to pray and fast over her.

Johnathan 29:34

A little weird.

Mom 29:35

Yeah, a little strange, a little strange Kind of to prove his point, but then in his writing, kind of vindicating himself. It's just a really sad story all the way around. But Salem, witch Trials, we've got women that are single, mostly widowed or elderly, who have nobody to protect them, who are misunderstood, who may or may not have some healing. Again, language barrier, just a real issue of misogyny, prejudice and religious zeal that just still exists today. Let's face it, it happens all over the world. So that's the story of Goody, mrs Ann Glover. Thank you, that was good. So we're going to go to Boston and we're going to walk around the comic. So that's the story of Goody, mrs Ann Glover. Thank you that was good.

Courtney 30:18

Thanks, Mom.

Mom 30:18

So we're going to go to Boston and we're going to walk around the comic, so there are some memorials to some of the people that are buried there. I'd like to go back and look at it in terms of that and not almost treating it like it is a cemetery as opposed to being just a green space, because every time tea they were always they were finding bones and bodies and stuff down there when they were putting the tea in.

Johnathan 30:43

And there were a lot of memorials, like there's a memorial to, um, ann Hutchinson, um, on the grounds of the state Capitol building, um, but there's a lot of memorials up there. We made a lot of mistakes.

Mom 30:56

Yeah, isn't the Ann Hutchinson one like white in front of the Capitol? Yeah, yeah Well that's great.

Hannah 31:02

Thank you, mom, for researching and sharing Love. To Thank you for having me back again. Anybody else have questions? Comments concerns I got nothing.

Courtney 31:11

I was going to say did you read the book, which is when you did yours? Yes, is when you did your yes. I want to say ann glover was mentioned briefly in that book because as she was talking, I'm like, okay, I've definitely read, not as in detail as what lynn had just no but her name before yeah, there was definitely like a quick like oh, we're going to salem, so we're just gonna like skirt past this thing that happened also very quickly.

Hannah 31:31

I think it was with those um, when they talked about wells main with the native american tax and everything. It was like the background information.

Courtney 31:39

There was one she had said, Martha, that I was like, wait a second. No, this definitely rings a bell. Okay, I'm glad that I'm not crazy.

Hannah 31:44

No, you're not, that was there. Yeah, absolutely, I thought the same thing.

Mom 31:48

I think she's very well known in the Boston area. Yeah, but if you're not from this part of the country you may not be as well acquainted with in.

Courtney 31:56

Well, that's the truth for witches in general. I find I have friends who live like Colorado or in other states and they didn't learn about witches the same way that we do out here Like we kind of I feel like it's just like oh, everybody knows about the Salem Witch Trials and people do as far as like Hocus.

Johnathan 32:11

Pocus and the Sanderson Sisters.

Courtney 32:13

But they don't have the history and the background of it, the way that we get in schools in Massachusetts.

Hannah 32:21

And they have those misconstrued facts about witches burning. I know that they were hung.

Courtney 32:25

Yes, Pizza man showed us that. What was he nailing them to crosses? Is that what he said?

Hannah 32:31

He was mixing some religions together.

Courtney 32:33

He had some Jesus stuff and witches stuff all backwards. It's Rhode Island for you.

Hannah 32:38

Well, thank you everybody, and thank you Wanderers. Happy New Year again. Happy.

Courtney 32:42

New.

Hannah 32:42

Year, and we'll catch you next time.

Courtney 32:44

Bye, bye, wanderers.

Hannah 32:46

Thanks for listening today. Wicked Wanderings is hosted by me, hannah, and co-hosted by me, courtney, and it's by Rob Fitzpatrick. Music by Sasha M. If you enjoyed today's episode, don't forget to leave a rating and review, and be sure to follow on all socials. You can find the links down in the show notes. If you're looking for some really cozy t-shirts or hoodies, head over to the merch store. Thank you for being a part of the Wicked Wanderings community. We appreciate every one of you. Stay curious, keep exploring and always remember to keep on wandering, thank you.