Ep. 85: Guess The Monsters

Hannah leads a chilling guessing game while Courtney tries to identify infamous historical monsters based on clues from Aaron Mahnke's "World of Lore" book.

• H.H. Holmes and his "Murder Castle" designed with trap doors, gas chambers, and body shoots to kill visitors during the 1893 Chicago World's Fair
• Holmes' history of insurance fraud, identity falsification, and his estimated 200 victims
• The tragic story of Bridget Cleary, a 26-year-old Irish woman burned alive in 1895 when her husband believed she was a fairy changeling
• How Irish folk superstitions about changelings led to brutal "treatments" for those suspected of being replaced by fairies
• The unsolved Villisca Axe Murders of 1912, where eight people were killed in their sleep
• The killer's methodical approach, including covering mirrors and victims' faces

Text us to let us know if you enjoy this guessing game format for episodes and if we should do more like this!

Transcript

Welcome Back to Podcasting

Speaker 1 0:05

I feel like I'm out of practice. You are Like. You know how they say doing things is like riding a bike. I really hope podcasting is like riding a bike.

Speaker 2 0:13

You abandoned us last week. You need to apologize to our Wanderers.

Speaker 1 0:17

How dare my personal life? No, guys. I am sorry, though Sometimes we all crash out for a little bit. She needed it, but we're good. We're good, we're here. Hannah's going to take the lead, so I can hopefully regain my footing in podcasting. I learned that when you're listening to the podcast that you're a host on and you're not on it, it's very hard, because I tried to respond during my listen through the podcast. Every time somebody mentioned anything about a cannibal, I was like thank God.

Speaker 2 0:43

I wasn't there and so, like cousin Mark definitely was like why wasn't Courtney here we talked about cannibalism yeah, everybody knows how much I love cannibalism. Okay, Hi, I'm Hannah and I'm Courtney. Join us as we delve into true crime, paranormal encounters and all things spooky.

Speaker 1 1:10

Grab your flashlight and get ready to wander into the darkness with us, Courtney. Join us as we delve into true crime, paranormal encounters and all things spooky. Grab your flashlight and get ready to wander into the darkness with us.

Speaker 2 1:33

This is Wicked Wanderings. Hi Courtney, Hi Hannah, I'm so glad you're back.

Speaker 1 1:38

I'm so glad to be back. We missed you.

Speaker 2 1:40

You can't leave me with the guys ever again.

Speaker 1 1:42

I missed you guys too, and honestly I really missed having a Kenzie in my lap. I did not miss the smells that come out of her, though she likes to fart guys. I don't know why I've become her new safe place since we come out of her, though she likes to fart guys, I don't know why I've become her new safe place since we got rid of her original bed.

Introduction to the Guessing Game

Speaker 1 1:56

Now all of a sudden on the podcast she's just like Courtney's lap. This is great. So if you ever hear any weird sounds from my mic licking, sniffing, stomach noises it's either me or it's Kenzie.

Speaker 2 2:07

Yeah, so I want to play a game, wanderers. I have three different, not necessarily cases, but they're Ooh. The book I actually took them from was an Aaron Manke book. We love you, aaron Manke. We always say this. It's one of his lore books and it talks about humans being monsters. Yeah, well, and sometimes that happens. Some of us are With that. I have three stories to tell, but I'm not going to tell you guys who it's about. Ooh, and I want Courtney to guess, and I also want Wanderers. I want you to guess. So if you need to pause and think, please do. I don't get to pause and think. This is a handicap for me. And if you find out who this is before I finish, please text us and tell us, because I'm curious to know.

Speaker 1 2:50

And at what point specifically you figured it out?

Speaker 2 2:52

What hint did I give that you were like I knew who this was or I knew what they were talking about.

Speaker 1 2:57

Perfect, I'm so excited. Are you ready to go? I am Okay.

Speaker 2 3:01

I am going to start out with the quote that Aaron Menke leads with in his the World of Lore, his Wicked Mortals book, because I just think it's so fitting. It's actually from john steinbeck, who's an author from his east of eden book, and it says, and here I am quoting I believe there are monsters born in the world to human parents, which I don't believe.

H.H. Holmes and the Murder Castle

Speaker 1 3:21

That it's a really eloquent way to put that. I believe so too. It's really a nice way to say people are assholes, let's set the stage for our first monster.

Speaker 2 3:29

I'm ready. January 17th, 1894. Wedding bells are in the air. Georgiana was going to marry the man of her dreams. What she doesn't know yet is that this handsome stranger is already married to two women, and their witness is his mistress wow, man gets around who is this man?

Speaker 2 3:54

let's give you some clues. You ready, I'm ready. Born in new hampshire in 1861, wealthy parents. His birth name is not the one he is known for, so it's a really good clue. He had no problem falsifying his identity, actually several times he showed a lot of problems as a child. He ended up enrolling in medical school university of michigan, and with his fascination in corpses came some interesting hobbies, I don't know. He would take corpses from the medical lab, disfigure them. Then he would have them be discovered and seen as a terrible accident. So then he would go to the insurance company with a policy to collect cash from his quote unquote deceased relatives oh God.

Speaker 1 4:43

I can think of this guy's name, but I can't come up with it. Stop, really. Yes, I was just reading something not that long ago about him. You know, no, I'm not. I'm bad with names.

Speaker 2 4:55

Okay, keep going his final one landed him twelve thousand five hundred dollars which back then was a lot of money it was a lot of money.

Speaker 2 5:03

He knew he was approaching getting caught so he abandoned med school and a wife and child. In 1885 he settles in englewood south of chicago, marries again and he strikes up a business partnership with a woman, dr elizabeth holden, who owned a drugstore. After a couple years dr holden banishes, but not before signing over her business. Surprisingly, right when the law across from the drugstore was available, he had a bigger vision.

Speaker 1 5:34

Hmm.

Speaker 2 5:35

A hotel. I don't love it that they called the castle to house all the visitors for the 1893 World's Columbian Exposition. Do you still think it's the same person, court? No, the plans were only known to him. He went through workers like crazy More than 500 carpenters and craftsmen because they would ask questions Too many questions that he just didn't want to answer.

Speaker 1 6:01

Understandably so for the type of thing he was doing.

Speaker 2 6:03

He moved his drugstore to the bottom floor and rented it to other businesses. He rented temporary living quarters to single young women.

Speaker 1 6:11

Hmm, but they all went missing, huh.

Speaker 2 6:14

If you wanted to be employed at the hotel it was required to have a $5,000 life insurance policy. A husband and wife with their daughter traveled to Chicago. The husband, ned, was a watchmaker and jeweler. He was hired right away. The wife was hired as well as a bookkeeper. So he actually ended up firing his bookkeeper just to have her. She was a tall woman, nearly six foot, and he was fascinated by her.

Speaker 2 6:42

Ned knew that his wife was cheating with this gentleman that owned the hotel, but with the steady job job he pretended all was dandy until she was pregnant. Ned filed for divorce and left, leaving his ex and daughter, who soon got life insurance policies on them. He informed her he would marry her if she got an abortion. She didn't want to, but she ended up complying. 18, 1891, julia and Pearl because Pearl was a daughter, julia was the new wife were never seen again. That same winter, a man named charles, who did odd jobs around the castle, was summoned to help with a peculiar project. Apparently charles was skilled in articulating skeletons, which I didn't even know was a thing and how do you become skilled in that?

Speaker 2 7:34

I don't know honestly I do not know. I had to look it up because I'm like articulating skeletons, but but I don't know. Honestly, I had more questions when I googled it than I do now. He was brought to a second floor room where a woman's body lay skinned. He was paid $36 to strip the flesh and prepare the bones. The skeleton was sold to a Dr Pauling of Hanneman Medical medical college. Dr pauling would look at the skeleton and marvel at how unusual it was to see a woman's skeleton almost six feet tall interesting because the wife was tall, so it was her do you still want to know.

Speaker 2 8:18

No, I don't this is so much fun. Okay. He was eventually caught in Boston, november 17th 1894. The castle was then named the murder house and was mysteriously gutted by fire, but not before police saw what was within, and this is only like a snapshot of what they found Trap doors, gas chambers, body shoots, crem, yikes, poisons, dissection table and a rack for stretching bodies. May 7th 1896, at moya mencing prison in philadelphia, he was hung by the neck, which snapped, but it took 15 minutes for him to die monster his final meal was boiled eggs, dry toast and a cup of coffee.

Speaker 2 9:09

You still don't know who this is I don't know who it is.

Speaker 2 9:12

He was then buried in an unmarked grave and holy cross cemetery per his request. There was no autopsy and his body was buried in a coffin filled with cement. He was afraid of his body being dug up and coffin filled with cement. He was afraid of his body being dug up and used for science karma. He was afraid of exactly possible. Death toll was 200 victims. And I'm gonna read his quote and here I am quoting I was born with the devil in me, he wrote.

Speaker 2 9:38

I could not help the fact that I was a murderer, no more than the poet can help the inspiration to sing. I was born with the evil one standing as my sponsor beside the bed where I was ushered into the world, and he has been with me since mental illness.

Speaker 1 9:53

Who is it? I don't know, I don't know, hh homes. Okay, I wouldn't have guessed that one. Really, I wouldn't have guessed that one.

The Irish Changeling: Bridget Cleary

Speaker 2 10:03

I thought the chicago and the hotel and the trapdoors would kind of be like a big hint I wouldn't have guessed that one are we ready for the next one? Yes, we're ready. This isn't a person, necessarily it is a being, no man.

Speaker 1 10:21

I'm already confused, okay, okay. Okay, here we go.

Speaker 2 10:24

Before modern medicine cultures. Talking about Ireland specifically Okay, believes that people would be exchanged with this. Okay, close to the fairy world. People would do superstitious acts such as holding a child over a fire Terrible or drinking brewed tea with fox glove, which is extremely poisonous. Okay, to prove if they were this, you could put a shoe in a soup bowl or make a loaf of bread inside half an eggshell and if the baby laughed, they were this I have never heard.

Speaker 1 11:02

I can confidently say I am sure lynn from springfield right now is yelling the answer. She probably is.

Speaker 2 11:08

She is shouting it, I'm sure of it and if my brother listened I'm sure he does know too. To have suspicions would be to notice mood swings okay, become argumentative and losing interest in families and friends and, honestly, this that describes half a culture right. I feel like I'm all of three things.

Speaker 2 11:27

For babies, it would be birth defects or even not wanting to breastfeed, like their inability to like latch correct okay these supposed things infants, if they lived were known as quote dim-w or, which is a Gaelic word of oof, which is where we get the word oaf, okay. So people say, oh, they're an oaf. Yeah, that's where it comes from.

Speaker 1 11:53

Interesting. That was interesting. I didn't know that, yeah.

Speaker 2 11:56

We are going to talk about a woman named Bridget Cleary.

Speaker 1 11:59

Bridget Cleary.

Speaker 2 12:04

Lived with her father and husband. She was, how they would say, unusual, a witch. A witch, a teet Fucking Putnams. She had her own business making dresses and keeping hens, so she had eggs and she provided for herself. So this is the unusual part. Yeah, everybody Terrible. She was independent, she was clever. I guess she was flirtatious.

Speaker 1 12:25

Or was she just perceived as flirtatious? Exactly, exactly.

Speaker 2 12:29

She was a witch. She was a witch with a teat. One day she went to deliver eggs to her father's cousin, jack Dunn. The weather changed as it does in Ireland, right as it does anywhere, and she became ill. And on March 4th 1895, a few days later, don the cousin, came to visit and claimed that wasn't Bridget. That's a blank. He waited until a couple days later to claim it. So she became ill. And when he hadn't seen her for a few days he's like oh, that's not Bridget anymore.

Speaker 1 12:58

Oh, okay. So I thought at first I was like she shows up at the house's, like here are your eggs and then he thinks something, but he waits three days.

Speaker 2 13:07

I was like no, no, no, no, no, something wrong with that man. Sorry, I did not communicate that enough. He came to check on her because he hadn't seen her in a few days and then he thought she's still sick in bed and he's like that's not bridget huh, wheels turning, no, okay. March 9th bridget's father went to find the doctor. Time went by, no doctor, and, as we all know, this wasn't like you just walk in a walk-in clinic. It was completely different. Then her husband went, no doctor. When her husband left again, the doctor actually came while he was out trying to find the doctor. So the doctor, he made the house call, he gave her meds, he left.

Speaker 1 13:42

And he didn't think there was anything.

Speaker 2 13:43

No, okay, doctor, he made the house call, he gave her meds, he left and he didn't think there was anything. No, okay, no, march 13th which, by the way I have to say, I think something like pneumonia is what's taking over this poor child.

Speaker 1 13:51

Honestly right, right, how old was she? She was 26.

Speaker 2 13:54

Okay, march 13th, the family decided to call the priest to give her her last rites, dear god.

Speaker 1 13:59

Just in case, okay, that seems horrible for the person lying in bed hoping to get better soon, I know right Later that evening people gathered to give her fairy medicine, but she refused.

Speaker 2 14:10

They held a red hot poker in her face till she ended up giving in. Next day that cousin done. Yeah, he comes back, we're done with him. He starts to spread rumors about Bridget being taken by the fairies and replaced with a Blank Blank. A man named Dennis Ganey was known as a quote fairy doctor and he was brought to the house. The treatments were barbaric.

Speaker 2 14:38

Oh, she's going to quote and I'm going to quote His treatments wouldn't necessarily fit into modern medical textbooks, mind you. They included the use of the hot poker forcing the blank to drink first milk from a cow that had just given birth, dousing the person in urine and exposing them to flames. Bridget was slapped and held in front of the fireplace while her husband demanded that she state before God and family that she was indeed Bridget Cleary. Even though she answered yes, the gathered crowd didn't believe her. Some background on the husband Michael and this is not to excuse him because his actions are horrific, I never liked Michael right, but like just to give some background on probably where this guy's head was at. His mother passed when he was young and his father actually died like hours prior to his mother dying, so it was just a terrible thing to go through.

Speaker 2 15:28

Right, he had no children. They lived with his father-in-law in a spare room Right In a 19th century equivalent of public housing. So this housing apparently was done kind of after the potato famine to try to like help recuperate the area and everything. So like the equivalent of like lower income housing. Okay, His wife was rumored to be cheating which we don't know if that's true or not Like promiscuous, and she was independent financially, she did not need him for did not?

Speaker 1 15:55

she didn't hate him for anything.

Speaker 2 15:56

He probably felt really unnecessary in life, right everyone started to try to leave the house because everyone had gathered to see bridget, but michael locked the door and said no one is to leave until I get my wife back. Bridget was asked to declare herself a fairy and she refused. Michael stripped her to her underwear and pushed her to the floor. He claimed that this was not his wife and everyone will see her soon go up the chimney. He doused her in lamp oil and lit her on fire in front of everyone. She died at 26.

Speaker 1 16:32

Why did nobody stop him, is my immediate first thought.

Speaker 2 16:35

A lot of superstition is what I yeah, I'm guessing he actually had to coax one of her cousins to bury her with a knife. So he has like a knife at this guy's throat and he's like we need to bury her. So they wrapped her in a sheet and buried her in a shallow grave. Michael believed she would show up at the fairy rings in a white gown on a pale horse and he would cut her bindings with a blackened knife. Like he firmly believed, this was going to happen. March 22nd, two police find her body and the only clothes left were her black stockings. What is the word?

Speaker 1 17:11

I do not. I I feel very uncultured right now. But no, I don't know changeling. I would have never come up with that. But you know, what's funny is I think I remember being at your mom's house and hearing her and jonathan talking about it the changelings yeah, yeah, they believe that it wasn't her, that she was a changeling lynn from springfield. I need you to facebook message me and tell me if you were yelling the whole time.

Speaker 2 17:31

Come on cordy, yeah, they firmly believe that Bridget was taken by the fairies and she was living her best life in fairy land.

Speaker 1 17:39

So fairies were not negative, or where they were. It's kind of hard because at some point they're like telling her you have to say that you are a fairy, and that's kind of like trickery. It's like it reminds me of the witch trials.

Speaker 2 17:49

It really does. Yes, I think Bridget knew to an extent of like what was happening. I think Bridget knew to an extent of like what was happening and, again, if you look at the witch trials, it was kind of like when you have women that are okay who they are and not counting on a patriarchal society, they're being forced to say things that they don't mean Dear God, if we have another witch trial.

Speaker 1 18:10

I'm so fucked.

Speaker 2 18:15

They actually were talking about, like a woman that supposedly went to the fairy lands and came back with no toes because she danced her toes off when she was in fairy land and I think that's what's interesting about like folklore and things in general is that it doesn't make any sense, but people and you have to like remind yourself, people wholeheartedly believed this.

Speaker 1 18:33

This was something people really believed down to their core. Was true, yeah?

Speaker 2 18:38

absolutely and honestly.

Speaker 1 18:40

We've talked about stuff like I believe in bigfoot, as we all know, and like man, we are 10 minutes and 26 seconds into our fourth recording of the day, because we're a shit show and she's bringing in bigfoot.

Speaker 2 18:51

But I'm just saying like, yeah, could there be another realm that we don't understand?

Speaker 1 18:54

Absolutely. It would answer some of the questions I have, like the Bermuda Triangle. Come on Right. What is going on with?

Speaker 2 19:00

that Right, or even the triangle that we have here in Western Mass Right.

Speaker 1 19:04

I mean, something doesn't make sense, strange phenomenon. Are we ready for the third one? Is there only three?

Speaker 2 19:09

There's only three. I tried to work on a fourth one, but the next one in the book I was like, eh, and then I started to read the next one. I was like I'm ready, I'm shooting.

Speaker 1 19:19

Oh no, here, let's hope I can get one, okay.

Speaker 2 19:22

I mean, if we like how I'm doing this, I can absolutely do more, because I think it'd be a lot of fun. All right, I just need to read a book occasion Stop.

Speaker 1 19:31

I've been really down the murder rabbit hole.

Speaker 2 19:33

Well, I have a murder for you. Okay, you ready, I am so ready. What is this case? And I can't tell you where because he would give it away.

Speaker 1 19:41

So location is important.

The Villisca Axe Murders

Speaker 2 19:43

Yes, joe and his wife Sarah had four children. On June 10, 1912, when the children decided to have a sleepover and invited two friends, all eight ended up retiring to bed. A stranger entered the home through the back door with his axe. Your wheels are turning. I just I want to give you time to think. He killed Joe and Sarah first, then their children, then the two guests. No sound, no warning. The killer wasn't done. He ended up going back and struck Joe's face a total of 30 times, then moved to Sarah Yikes. He covered every victim's face, including mirrors and reflective surfaces which, for those of you that don't know, they used to cover mirrors, because when they had a death and they, you know, obviously brought the body in for the wake, they didn't want the spirits to get confused, and so they made sure that all of those coverings so they could actually leave and pass on to the next life.

Speaker 1 20:42

So he was thoughtful about it, I guess, yes, he really didn't want anyone to be trapped. He stayed, though.

Speaker 2 20:48

This person stayed and he washed his hands in a bowl of water. It was actually not until like 5 am that he left, so he just kind of like hung out. He took the house keys and left. It's not who I thought it was. We have done an episode about this. Not with you. It was me and Jess, my old co-host, so a house full of murdered people with an axe. Come on, gordy.

Speaker 1 21:17

You got this. It was an episode. It's funny because I listen to every episode. My memory is shot.

Speaker 2 21:25

It's 30, damn it, 30 ruined it. I couldn't tell you the town, because the town is in the name of the murders.

Speaker 1 21:34

No, that was the no, because the one in Colorado was a hammer, wasn't it the Colorado one? Wasn't there one that was like the Denver?

Speaker 2 21:44

You're not talking about the Yosemite killer. That we just did.

Speaker 1 21:46

No, no, no. There was an episode that was like the Denver hammer killer or something Jess would know if she was here. Probably, yeah, it's not that one. Nope, I'm pretty sure that one was a hammer.

Speaker 2 21:56

I will tell you this it was Jess's episode. I did not do it.

Speaker 1 22:00

I can like hear her voice. I don't know. You're going to say it and I'm going to want to punch myself directly in the nose. Probably. I'm scared to say it though.

Speaker 2 22:09

Go ahead. The Villisca axe murders, I axe murders.

Speaker 1 22:11

I would not have guessed that, really.

Speaker 2 22:13

Nope, because it happened in.

Speaker 1 22:14

Villisca, I wouldn't have guessed that. Am I not giving good enough hints? No, I think I'm just bad at this game. Okay, let's do this again with Cousin Mark. We really should.

Speaker 2 22:25

He'd probably be very good at it.

Speaker 1 22:26

You would have to do serial killers with him, though I think Probably.

Speaker 2 22:30

Or because I have three books that are done by Aaron Makey, and one of them is places and the other one is like actual creatures.

Speaker 1 22:37

I'm also terrible with names, so I'm wondering, if it were places, if I would do better, or if I'm just telling myself that to make myself feel better well, hold on for science, for science, because we are scientists.

Speaker 2 22:48

I'm not a teacher.

Speaker 1 22:50

I'm not a teacher. My happy teacher appreciation week, by the way, to everybody who is a teacher. Are those books part of a series? Yeah, he has three of them. Three series or three books, three books. They look really satisfying and I want them for my collection.

Speaker 2 23:03

But if you're going to do, stuff with them.

Speaker 1 23:04

I don't want to buy them until you're done they're amazing.

Speaker 2 23:06

And he actually Holy pages marked yes and he actually reads them on Audible. So it's actually very satisfying to listen to his voice because he has a great voice.

Speaker 1 23:15

I like to listen to authors who read their own books.

Speaker 2 23:17

It's great to listen to him on Lore the show. Anyways, too, I didn't know he had a show In a podcast.

Speaker 1 23:22

You've never watched a Lore show. No, hannah's looking at me like with eyes that could cut right through my skin. Girl, we need to watch.

Speaker 2 23:28

Okay, there was Mallory, who was known to take her slaves and brutally disfigure them and cause a lot of harm. Okay, where was she from?

Speaker 1 23:43

I mean you said there was a woman with slaves. Were they in the United States? Yes, why does my immediate mind go Georgia Close. I can confidently say I never heard of this one either.

Speaker 2 23:54

Really yeah, new Orleans.

Speaker 1 23:56

Okay.

Speaker 2 23:57

We also did a podcast on that, jesus Christ, but that was adjusted one.

Speaker 1 24:00

Somebody needs to get my brain checked.

Speaker 2 24:02

I listen to all those episodes, sometimes twice.

Speaker 1 24:05

Okay, I feel like I'm causing a lot of pressure. Hannah makes me feel like I need to have an Alzheimer's exam, so, on that note, that's fun.

Speaker 2 24:13

Oh my god, anyways, that's fun. Oh my God, anyways, that's what I have. Wanderers, that was fun. Should we do a card or we should just leave it at that today, let's leave it at that today.

Feedback and Farewells

Speaker 1 24:20

Let's leave it at that today. What I do want to know is if you like this kind of episode because it is new to us, it is different Write in, let us know. If it's something you guys are like, skip next we don't want to hear any more of, let us know. We're trying to get everybody to give us feedback. Yes, we're bcbas. We work in a feedback driven field, so I'm so sorry if we sound like desperate ex-girlfriends begging you to text us, but we are but we are and please text us because you're listening for a reason, right, we want to know why, and if it's a talk shit say that too.

Speaker 1 24:49

Yeah, that's fine. We're great at talking shit. We do it a great professionally. We just cut that part out, exactly, exactly. On that note, goodbye Wanderers. It was so great to rejoin you. I've really missed you. Podcasting may not be like riding a bicycle, but I'll get back.

Speaker 2 25:04

I promise Bye, wanderers, bye. Thanks for listening today. Wicked Wanderings is hosted by me, Hannah, and co-hosted by me, courtney, and it's produced by Rob Fitzpatrick.

Speaker 2 25:16

Music by Sasha N. If you enjoyed today's episode, don't forget to leave a rating and review and be sure to follow on all socials. You can find the links down in the show notes. If you're looking for some really cozy t-shirts or hoodies, head over to the merch store. Thank you for being a part of the Wicked Wanderings community. We appreciate every one of you. Stay curious, keep exploring and always remember to keep on wandering. Thank you.