Watching Your Friend Fall in Love on TV — with Kirkland Douglas

What does it actually feel like to watch your friend go from acting school to reality TV… to falling in love on screen?

In this episode, I sit down with Kirkland Douglas — entrepreneur, farmer, and reality TV personality from Farming for Love and The Traitors Canada — to talk about the full-circle moment of seeing someone you know step into the spotlight.

We get into how much the entertainment industry has changed (especially for queer and Indigenous representation), what it’s really like behind the scenes of reality TV, and why fame isn’t quite what it seems. But more than anything, this is a conversation about identity, growth, and what it means to see someone live out a version of life you once dreamed about together.

It’s honest, a little nostalgic, and a reminder of how far things have come — both on screen and off.

Check out Kirkland's business: 

http://www.shoptwochiefs.com

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:44

Hi everyone, welcome back to the show. Today's episode is a special one. I mean, they're all special, but this one is extra special because it's not just about reality TV or entertainment or even representation. It's about what it feels like to watch someone you actually know step into all of that in real time. Like truly, one day you're in acting school together, honey, talking about auditions and dreaming about making it. And the next you're watching that same person fall in love on national TV. And that person is Kirkland Douglas, aka Farmer Kirkland. And what's wild is how much the world has changed since I met him back in film school. We both went to uh the Vancouver Film School here in Vancouver. And back then the message was pretty clear. So if you wanted to make it in film and TV, you had to stay safe, stay marketable, do not rock the boat, don't be too queer, don't be too different, don't take the wrong roles, aka gay. Um, and now we're watching stories that would have never been pitched years ago. Queer love stories, indigenous stories, reality TV that actually reflects real people instead of just a narrow version of them. And Kirk sits right at the center of that shift. This is someone that I've known for years. I already mentioned that, a friend, someone that I've partied with, but we don't go too deep into that, honey. Uh, worked alongside and watched navigate this industry long before the camera showed up. And now seeing him step into that spotlight, not just as a reality TV personality, but as a fully authentic version of himself is honestly kind of surreal. Um, it's one thing to talk about representation in theory. And I spoke about this um on previous episodes specifically with um Miss Jalen Time, but when you have a personal connection or know um the human story behind the headline about representation, it really does matter. So to see him going from being told, don't do reality TV, and I don't know if people told him that, but sort of back in the day, actors didn't really consider reality TV a viable path. So a lot of people just turned their nose to it. Um, but now he's becoming one of the first openly, let's see if I can get this acronym correct, 2SLGBTQ, farmers in the global franchise, farming for love. Farmer Looking for Love, I believe is the global franchise, but farming for love is what we call it here in Canada. So we were able to watch his identity, his story, and even his love life on screen and have people across the country connect with it in real time. We also talk about his time on traders, which seems like is everybody's new obsession. I absolutely love it and hope to be on it at some point. Um, and I think that's what this episode is really about. So it's not just behind the scenes TV, but we do talk about that. But how entertainment has evolved, how representation actually feels when it's someone you know, and what it's like to go from chasing the dream to suddenly living it. So let's get into it. Hi everyone, welcome back to the show. Today I have a bestie from the past, from the past. Kirkland Douglas is an entrepreneur, farmer, actor, and reality TV personality. I'm surprised you didn't say star. I'm gonna call you a star. Um from Rosedale, BC. He is the founder of Two Chiefs, a retail brand focused on uplifting indigenous artists and makers. Kirk is a member of the She Am First Nation and identifies as two spirit and gay. He is first okay he first gained national attention on Farming for Love season two, where he became the first two S L G P TQ plus farmer bitch. We got the whole thing. Um, in the English speaking Farmer Wants a Wife franchise, and then later appeared on the Traders Canada season two. He has also worked in scripted television. Yes, honey, welcome to the show.

SPEAKER_01 4:54

Hello, hello, hello.

SPEAKER_00 4:55

How does it feel to have that kind of intro listing, like the reality TV moments?

SPEAKER_03 5:02

You know, that's it's uh it's funny, it's a change from where I thought, I don't know, where things would have been years ago. Is as you know, we uh we met a long time ago in acting school. So I was very no reality TV through that time. But I mean it was a different world then because I mean it was, yeah, yeah, it was.

SPEAKER_00 5:22

I re I do remember like specific conversations where you're like, yeah, no, I think it was around Real Housewives of Vancouver. You're like, I'm never gonna do reality TV. But at the time, that was the advice of agents and teachers. They were like, no, don't do it, don't do it. So a lot has changed since then for sure.

SPEAKER_03 5:40

Everybody now that was, I mean, I did a little stint on uh the real housewives. You brought it up, bitch. You brought it up. That just sort of literally, I don't even know, just whooshed away, and suddenly I'm in a limo with uh Jody Klayman.

SPEAKER_00 5:57

I was so jealous. I remember at the time you were on it. Tommy was like, they filmed in 1181 one night, I think, and he tried to start a fight with Mia. But yeah, I remember that. I was I was feeling I'm praying for a reboot because now Mary, I'm texting her every day so that if it does come back, I will have some kind of scene, cameo, I'll show up. I don't care. I will be like, where are you having coffee? Do you want to do singing lessons with me? I don't know. But yeah, I re so when you did House Who is a Vancouver, that was you were friends with Mia, right? And then she just invited you on the city.

SPEAKER_03 6:34

Yes, I was. Uh Mia was friends with somebody I worked with, and I knew Mia through that, and so that's how I ended up. They it was the Pride episode, they need a couple gays, and suddenly here we are.

SPEAKER_00 6:49

You did they tell you you were gonna be filming, or did you just show up? Okay.

SPEAKER_03 6:55

Hate it, like so jealous of it. Yeah, and I don't know if you know this too. It's a random fact, too, because Lark Productions, who did Real Housewives, there who also did Barman for Love. So how many years later? 12?

SPEAKER_00 7:08

Did they know? Did they remember you in some way?

SPEAKER_03 7:11

Oh, yeah, same show showrunner as everything, of course.

SPEAKER_00 7:13

What? Yeah, I didn't know that. I didn't know that. I mean, Lark does pretty much everything cool, I would say. Yeah, Lark's amazing. Interesting. I didn't know that connection. Um, but like speaking of how things were different, heated rivalry came out. Everybody's freaking out about this show, and it I was resistant. I was like, yeah, they're hot. I saw Evan like watch the first episode, and I saw like, you know, their naked bodies in the shower hot. But I'm like, I don't need to see another like gay love story that is just super focused on like hot guys hooking up and having sex. And I ended up watching the whole thing and I liked it. I felt like they did a good job of like wrapping it up and bringing it back to the emotional story. But every time I see stuff like that, and same with like Troy Savon being a big pop star, it's so different from when you and I were in film school, where at least for me, they were like, if you want to be a working actor, you need to play it straight. Like every class for me was like, How can we butch you up? Which that's never gonna happen, first of all. And I remember being so uncomfortable and so like part of me, I think that's why I was so like cocky and outrageous because I was rebelling against it. But also, it was so discouraging to know that there was no roles really. If there was like every pilot season, there was like one gay, and now you were just on farming for love, and I don't want to dive into that yet. But what do you remember of like being a young actor back then, like 10, 15 years ago?

SPEAKER_03 8:57

Date me. Um, do you know what's funny is I remember you doing something that just came to mind. You were in your like final thing ready to go out and sing a song, and I literally think the song was I'm gay. I think back though, because I was still what I was, I was 19 years old when I started Vanguard Film School, and I knew no gays. I was still I I came out when I was in film school. So you would have been one of the very first gays that I met. So you were an intro to uh the gays. Good intro. Yeah. Uh but it was like that. I had agents, everybody, acting teachers, you name it, it was don't come out even almost or like don't don't make it, don't take a gay role, you'll be cast type, you'll be all of that. And it's wild to see the difference and how that's evolved over the years, but entertainment in general, uh it's just not even the same thing that it was at all. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 10:03

It's changed a lot. Um, and I feel like I I've been thinking a lot about this recently, and I thought about it with heated rivalry because a lot of people related to the coming out part, which I never really do because I, even though I was in the closet, I was never truly hidden. Like I was always flamboyant, fam, like it's it's just me. Yeah. So when I think of somebody like you, it's almost harder because you're you're constantly like having to come out because I don't know if people would see you back then and be like Kirk is gay. So there's like internally, do I tell my agent, do I not? Like, how do I present at casting? Whereas if you're just obvious, I never had to think about that. So, in some ways, harder for you almost because there's the constant back and forth of like, do I hide it or do I not?

SPEAKER_03 10:56

It was back then for sure. I mean, my first agent though was a gay man. So yes, you knew him too. And uh so we were able to talk, and I had a lot of I don't know, a gay acting teacher that I was working with really closely. I actually made a decision like later though. I went and worked with a very like a straight man acting teacher that I really approached about, you know, I need, I want to work more, I want to get roles, I want to be considered. And that was something I brought up like to him, even about I just need to make sure I'm can play these straight roles and confidently. But back then, as you said, there was, I don't know, I love gay stories. This is where my problem was is I see something like Kita Rivalry or things way back then. I was just like, well, I want to tell those stories though. That's what I want to do. That's like part of what even brought me when I was very you know young wanting to be an actor. It was things that I I didn't see. So it was stories that I wanted to tell. And it's like I would get these scripts, and you would work on these things about this romantic lead of whatever, and I just found the character so boring too. It's like I don't even want that. That's not what I want to do at all.

SPEAKER_00 12:13

Yeah, I I I don't know. I felt like there were so few stories back then. I mean, apart from like Party Monster, I just very rarely saw myself. But you, I think even like when I moved back to Vancouver three, three-ish years ago, you were still in the acting, or maybe this was transitioning to like farming, but you stuck with it for a long time, and it is not easy to deal with that, like commercial auditions, seeing the same casting director and not getting cast. How did you stay in it so long? And you also seemed confident, like you never seem to lose the vision and the confidence that something would happen at some point.

SPEAKER_03 13:00

Class, honestly, I would take a scene study class and get to do really good plays. So you're doing work that's not just simple little auditions or commercials. I was going there, diving into these characters, having a really great community around me. And that was something that that's what really kept alive because the audition cycle that that did start to kill me. That was it was soul sucking. It was like, is this even real? I would have acting teachers tell me that it's not half the time, that they're like, yeah, it's already been cast in the US, probably, and they're just auditioning up here because they have to, and things like that. And for me, what happened? I I moved to Toronto, I was like, I'm gonna try it over there, more Canadian. And then COVID happened, and then I ended up back here. Right. And then I was doing it just, I don't know, almost out of habit at that point. Like, why not just throw it on a tape and because all everything all of a sudden became tape auditions? Right, yeah, yeah. And then you're like banging them out a little bit. A little bit, but that was another thing too. I'm like, well, how many people are doing this now? Because everyone can just send in the tape. So I just got to a point, I was already years before that, writing and trying to make my own work, and I still write, I still make scripts, I still have pitch things, and I just realized that's just this audition rat race and world is not, it's just not meant for me. I know it's gonna work for some people, but I don't know if it works for many. I think most people have to either create it or what's funny is a lot of the things that I have got have just come to me when things line up right. Suddenly, you know, I fell on to a limo in Real Housewives, or it's true.

SPEAKER_00 14:55

Yeah, it is true. They have seen there is something about like talking to people who've been on TV or like performing, whatever. There is something about not being desperate for it, like me. Um, that can that there has to be an or like as an house was uh as an example. Whenever I was around Mia or any of them, I could not not talk about the show. And in my mind, I was like, I'm gonna relate. And uh there was just such a for me to be around famous people or people on TV, it's so distracting because it was such a big part of what I wanted that I could never be chill. So I think for you, like having things line up, I obviously you wanted something about that life, but you know, you were able to be in it and not, I guess, be distracted by it.

SPEAKER_03 15:48

Well, it yeah, it's a mix of both. When I was younger for sure, I was around a lot of I don't know, people working actors and things like that, people that would even come into town. I worked at a restaurant where the actors would all come and I would, you know, similar things in my 20s, but as I got older, no. And then when I really got back to the farm, to the reserve, doing my work here, it was like I stopped auditioning. And that's I had other shows call me first, like Big Brother and Amazing Race, all these things they just all of a sudden were coming to me.

SPEAKER_00 16:23

Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. Wait, wait, you mean they were calling you before farming for life? What? How?

SPEAKER_03 16:34

What do you mean? Like, I mean like they would find me and um DM and then bring me down. Without auditioning? Well, not not like you're immediately cast.

SPEAKER_00 16:45

No, I know you're not immediately cast, but it's just it's crazy to think. Okay. There is something about um indigenous representation becoming really important, um, and rightfully so, especially in Canada, and casting making a point of trying to find it. Like Canada Shore, as you and I spoke about, it's like these young white kids getting drunk, but they're missing like quite obviously some representation there. They have a black gay guy, but um did you feel there was like a shift socially? And when they're they're reaching out to you in your mind, and I can only equate this to me back then when I would get called in for auditions, it was like club kid, drag queen, like something very flamboyant, totally typecast opportunity though. Did you feel like that when like Big Brother and Amazing Race started reaching out randomly?

SPEAKER_03 17:42

A little, but not those shows. No, not that as much. I feel like I'm really I understand where I fit in reality TV. I get it so much, especially being, you know, uh how I look as an indigenous person, being white presenting and having this other story of being uh rodeo, cowboy, doing all that. And with Big Brother, that's really what they were asking me. They asked me so much. Would you date on TV? Would you do all this? Would you have? And it's like, I was like, I don't know, I don't know. And then here we are now, but I didn't know that they were calling you. Yeah. And then like years ago, though, like with auditions, sometimes I would get these indigenous style characters that I'm like, well, I'm not doing that one. Like it was meant for somebody else. Or um they would, there was things like I don't know, very traditional indigenous people, and they would want to put me in something. And I'm super, I don't know, very precious about how indigenous stories are told on TV as well. So I'm I'm very much happy that none of those went through. And uh I don't know, Big Brother Amazing Race, that would be a whole nother want to do it.

SPEAKER_00 18:56

Right. There's time. I I can see it happening for sure. Um interesting. So I didn't know they were calling you. That's really crazy. Um, when I want to go back a little bit to like the actor's lifestyle and how you you you like the class, the class, you being in class training seemed to keep you plugged in. And you said um it's not for everybody, like staying in that world. I ran into this woman that I used to represent, um, or like one of the agencies I worked at. She's probably like late 50s now. She didn't recognize me. I was like, oh my, I'm not gonna say her name. Um, she looked so tired and so like worn down and sad. And once she realized I was like the assistant at the agency, she was like, I can't remember what she said, but it was like that was such a waste of time. Basically, I wasted my life. And she was working at I think like a kitchen supply store or something, like in retail. And it stuck with me so much because I feel like so many people dedicate their whole life, and it's so rare that it pays off. And if you're lucky, you get like one or two roles, one or two roles, like if you I don't know, guest star principal, but it's so hard. I don't know, people who are listening who are actors, I don't want to like discourage them, but damn the long haul, like if you think into your 50s, 60s playing that game.

SPEAKER_03 20:22

Oof, I don't know. I just when I was younger, I was just I lived in a small town on the res, and like I just I either wanted to be an actor or an I well, if that didn't work out, I was gonna be a wrestler, but I couldn't be both because I'm learning some WWF or WWE now, but it was WWF at the time. And but again, you couldn't be both back then. So the actor was first, and I had this, you know, you you got a role, like you were set, you were all of this, and then I got older and understand the world a little bit more, and I'm like, oh, these actors that I know that are working on a show or they're doing whatever, they're still serving tables, they're still working at the airport. They're still with it's not at the airport.

SPEAKER_00 21:11

Who's working at the airport?

SPEAKER_03 21:14

But you know, it's it's not what I thought it was, obviously, when I was a kid. And then I got older and see the reality of it that even if you get that role, it that show could end, you could it you could be killed off, all these things can happen, and you're back to square one. And what do you do? Yeah, and then you just keep going, I guess.

SPEAKER_00 21:36

There's so many stories recently. Um, what's her name? Sweeney, Sydney Sweeney. She was on Euphoria, was like, I can't, I can't pay my rent, basically. Um, Chapel Rhone blew up, and she's like, I'm not making enough money. Um Heated Rivalry Guy, I don't know which one, was like working at the spaghetti factory before. So yeah, fame definitely does not equal money anymore. It doesn't actually I mean, reality show, you you could probably speak to this, doesn't necessarily mean you finish a show and there's like a long list of opportunities, and you're like, yes, no, yes, no. I learned that from Drag Race. Like these girls spend so much money and the show raps and it's like crickets. So people don't know that.

SPEAKER_03 22:19

I think you know it's funny, is with drag race, there's probably the most opportunity for them because they can go work at a bar, they can go work and do shows and continue the character they built on there. But in Canadian reality TV, you've got to finish that job and then go back to yourself, building yourself up. If you if it's something that you want to do more of, you've got to just continue to live this full, interesting life and like make that a priority. And you can't just be, I don't know, there's not an industry here to be unless you want to be a full-time social media influencer in some way, but even that, it's it's not, it's not like the US at all, obviously. You get a show, and if you become a star on that show, you might get, you know, you could keep going on. These competition reality stars do a lot, but that industry is just it's not the same in Canada.

SPEAKER_00 23:12

That's no, there's like 10 times the amount of people who watch these shows. Yeah, it's completely different in America. Um, and people don't know that. I learned a lot with the girls from Drag Race. So when you and I met, um, I remember you're on Farming for Love, and you know, they the indigenous, your identity, your heritage, it was a big part of the show. And I remember Evan asking me, and he was like, I didn't know like Kirk, like that was his story, blah, blah, blah. And I remembered a few stories of you and I back in the day partying at the club. And it was something you brought up often, like, not all the time, but we talked about your life. Uh, we talked about your dad. Um, and I mentioned this with Jalen that it's so it's so helpful to know real people when people talk about representation because so often it's like an eye roll almost, like it gets linked to woke bullshit. And people maybe don't believe or don't see the real history of what's going on. And somebody like you, they can watch TV. And they're like they're understanding it from like an episode to episode story character thing, but maybe the missing link of like the full history. And it was nice to remember those, you know, late nights when we would talk about them because it was it's it's nice to see you be able to share that side of yourself. And there was another, you know, timeline that maybe we never got to that point where indigenous stories mattered, queer indigenous stories mattered. Um, but now you're on TV like celebrating it. That must feel pretty special.

SPEAKER_03 24:52

Yeah, for sure. I I feel like, especially with forming for love, what I loved about it being an indigenous story. It was an indigenous love story at the same time. It wasn't about everything when indigenous people get brought up, they're so common that it becomes this like, oh yeah, I support every child's matters or this or that, that it's like some sort of whoa, like it's not just, you know, some sort of charity case because you're indigenous. And there's this whole idea when it comes up where people dive into that. We even had this open house for this company that's gonna be working with my reserve the other day. And that's like this guy is there in his Every Child Matters shirt. And I was sort of like, Oh my god, no. Do you need to be doing I'm not like yes, okay, great, you support it, but at the same time, it's just because you're here doesn't mean that's alive with at all times. Believe me, we all indigenous people, especially the ones from the reserve, like how I grew up, you're around drama. Yes, I saw everything, saw it all, and it's keeps going, keeps coming, like it never stops, really. There's so much. But you don't need to be, it's not the only thing about indigenous people. So I love that these stories are getting out there and to be a part of that and to be, you know, on farming for love, watching me just go through it, and it's just about me, sky, finding. Yeah. I mean, my story, obviously. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, it's the idea that was it nine. Well, in total there, yeah, not all nine on the farm at once.

SPEAKER_00 26:37

But I remember when it was announced because you I don't even think you told, you definitely didn't tell me before it was announced. And then when it was announced, I was like, I want to talk about traders first. We'll talk about farming a little bit. Um I okay, I've known people on reality shows, so I've had that experience of like watching and texting them at the same time. Never a love competition show. And I was like, Kirk falling in love on TV. And I'm like, I don't know. Like, I just I don't know. Like you were never warm and fuzzy. I've known some of your boyfriends, but romance on TV was not what I had, what I would have guessed, and also that you agreed to it. So the first thing I'm like, is this going to be real? Because I just, I don't know. The Bachelor and The Bachelorette. I guess there's a part of me that never really believes it at all. When I and I should also like preface that by saying that's not my preferred genre of reality TV. I like docusops. Um, but I was shocked that it was that that's I guess how it started for you. So, and I know this story, but tell me about how it came into your orbit and how they reached out, are you auditioned and how did that come to be?

SPEAKER_03 27:59

Um, well, as far as the ins and outs of casting, um can't really say it all. But you know, I was encouraged to apply and then went through this a process of really getting to know production. They and then season one hadn't aired yet, because I'm on season two, Farming for Love. And season one hadn't aired yet. So they're like, go watch Farmer Wants a Wife, because that's the sister show. So I go and the US version was on right then, and all I saw was this like it was like a Hallmark movie, just everyone was white and straight. And I was saw that though, as such an invitation of okay, I can come in here and you know, make this mix. I like it. Like, let's mess this up a bit. I saw that as like, yes, throw me into whatever that is and see what comes out. Plus, uh, as far as you know, warm, fuzzy. I don't know. I was dating quite a bit, so it was just looking, couldn't find anything anywhere. Um, the show itself, worldwide, is known as the number one dating show, uh, successful matches. There's like 500 kids and 200 marriages. Insane. Wild. Everybody wants a farmer, so and I guess you can, you know, they uh they like the land. And so that was a big draw, and then you know, worked out.

SPEAKER_00 29:32

I can imagine the show comes, you say yes, however, that happens. Do you instantly feel I'm gonna maybe meet somebody that I'm going to fall in love with? Or are you like everybody else who's probably like, yeah, it's a TV show. Maybe, maybe not. Like, what were you what's the mind frame going into it?

SPEAKER_03 29:56

No, I think because of what this show stood for, they really propped up about how they really find these love matches and the way it's set up. Uh, you see, in the beginning, everybody writes you a letter. Uh, so they put you out there first. So it's not like the bachelor where you don't know who the bachelor-bachelorette's gonna be either, right? People are literally just signing up for a TV show. They put me out there, my videos, so people could go and see them and see like, would I connect with this person? Obviously, I have to wonder if the people coming on are there for a TV show or really want to meet. And then, yeah, so I don't know. I my possibilities were anything could happen, really.

SPEAKER_00 30:40

You have to be open-minded, I guess. You're going on to a show. Okay, now onset, what I always think about with reality TV is like there's no music. And so much of what makes a reality show good is editing and music. Like, if you think about traders, it's like I'm gonna have a heart attack at the end of every damn episode with the round table, the eliminations, and shit. Um, farming for love is so interesting, and I guess other um like romance dating shows because the scenes are so romantic and there's the like they're picturesque, they're storybook. And I remember watching it being like, damn, like he was really, you know, in that glowing bed in the sky on a mountain, whatever. It's like surreal. But when you're on set, it's not like you don't have the music and stuff. So when you are in those dates and you're meeting the guys, does it feel intimate and romantic?

SPEAKER_03 31:35

It did. It you know how they say the you after, I don't know, an hour of being there, the cameras start to fade away. And literally, they you're with the same crew, you're with everybody. So everything just felt like normal in a weird way. It was all like excuse me, it was all, I don't know, easy and just it was there. You were on these dates, it was real, like we were hanging out. It was like nobody else was there, but whoever I was on a date with. Plus, I don't know if you you've been out to Rosedale, it's beautiful out here. So they were taking us to all these different areas too where it was super romantic, and like the wineries or just different places, yeah. And it was you just fall into it and you're there, and yeah, it's like they really create the perfect environment to fall in love, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 32:30

Yeah, it's like yeah, I don't know if you could go on. I mean, it'd be pretty pretty crazy if you went on those dates and didn't have a connection. Um, I don't know if you can talk about this, I don't know the answer, but you obviously don't choose the guys, you're not a part of that, but how do they do such a good job of matching and having this success rate of so many couples actually lasting and it not just being you do get some of a choice, so they do they write you those letters in the beginning you get to choose from the letters and pictures, so yeah, it's like every reality show.

SPEAKER_03 33:08

They really go in depth with who you are before you ever ever get on camera. So they find it. I don't know what their secret sauce is, though. Some data center in a back room, maybe not there. It's an algorithm. Running reports, like whoever runs TikTok, they share the algorithm. Or I don't know. But uh, they got some secret sauce.

SPEAKER_00 33:30

I wonder if there's a matchmaker in casting. There must be somebody who's not just thinking about it. Like, I'm gonna find out. That's gonna be a deep dive later. Um, so the guys come out when you first saw Greg. Tell me about that.

SPEAKER_03 33:43

Uh it was, I don't know, it's so special. It's so special that I can go back and watch it anytime. We we rarely ever have. There's been moments.

SPEAKER_00 33:51

Oh my god, I didn't even think about that. Because you guys had to watch it together, but you weren't allowed to be together physically.

SPEAKER_03 33:59

No, no, we were separate for it. It was like, I think the show was, I don't even know. It was a it was a while. So we were living in secret for quite some time. Uh that was very difficult, obviously. But no, that that first moment was I love it. And I I think back, and me and Greg had our connection pretty much instantly, like right away. Kissed on the first date. I don't know. There was there's already some like because of those letters, you sort of meet, you have this like you're not getting to speak yet, but you're there, and then you finally get to sit down and instant. Like, I was like, okay, that's like this is someone that immediately I was connected with.

SPEAKER_00 34:39

You did such a good job of not saying anything because I was texting you during every episode, and I can't remember the guy's name that went all the way to the end that I thought you were going to pick. I didn't think it was gonna be Greg. I don't know why. Um, but you did such a good job of not letting me know. And for people who are listening, it's it's it's insane to watch somebody you know date and then try and predict one, is this real? And then two, is he really gonna find someone? And by the end of the show, when you did, because you had a finale party at the farm, which I didn't come to the finale, but I came to one of the screaming scream screamings. I came, I was screaming at home. Um, but you had Greg like at the finale at your house, right?

SPEAKER_03 35:22

Yeah, yeah. As soon as it was over, we had all these people there and brought them all, brought them in.

SPEAKER_00 35:28

Oh that's so crazy. I wish I would have been there. Yeah, it was really surreal to see that happen on TV. Um, yeah, what was it like for Fred? Your family met him on the show, but like what about the other people who were there at the finale party? Wait, did they know he was gonna be there the day of?

SPEAKER_03 35:47

A lot of people were starting. I don't know, they I think they suspected somebody. Um, my my family was it was great because they were there at the whole time. So they were people I did not have to uh live in secret with. I know makes life so much easier, especially because helping to all run the farm together, like business plus this. I'm running off to Toronto or like wherever. We went to Mexico on a vacation once too.

SPEAKER_00 36:13

While it was while the while the show was on or before? No, before. Yeah. Okay, okay.

SPEAKER_03 36:18

Once the show was on, it was really difficult. So we were, yeah. Even when I would go to visit him there, it was I'm like hiding out because I I'd lived in Toronto before. People knew me. I'd already been announced. Yeah, yeah. So famous.

SPEAKER_00 36:34

Gotta hide big sunglasses. Yeah, that's wild. I um the other part that I want people to hear is like, even though I knew you guys were together, texting you, everything's going great. I didn't meet Greg in real life until Pride when you guys came to Heidi. And the vibe was so real. And I don't mean to diminish your relationship by saying it was so real, but it's a very unique way to meet. And I think probably now it's been a while, nobody's second guessing it. But I remember again at celebrities being like, it's it's like so real and they're so natural. He's so sweet, he was so like excited and friendly and personable. And I was so happy to see that live and be like, it's it's so crazy that that's how you met. But it really was like any other couple.

SPEAKER_03 37:26

It's so funny for me. The weirdest part about this experience that when I did it was how normal it felt for me. I don't know if it's just because I was around that world trying to be in entertainment, just always like around things that were bigger than life. I was just things would happen in my life. And then so when this happened and I had been trying to date and whatever, it just felt like, yeah, of course, this is how I go and meet somebody. Like it was like it just fit like love. It was so weird. But I'm like, yeah, that's where I'm supposed to be.

SPEAKER_00 37:59

Did Greg have any interest in being on TV and stuff? Like, is he an actor?

SPEAKER_03 38:04

Like an actor as well, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 38:06

Okay, okay. So I guess was it similar to you? And we didn't actually talk about this, like when you were oh you you did decided to do reality TV, obviously. Was he pursuing that? Or did how did that how did he end up on the show?

SPEAKER_03 38:21

Uh no, I don't think so. I think it was um something similar. There, I had so many gays messaging me and being like, someone DMed me about the show. If you want to like just message me, you know how many of those people messed up did that? It's crazy.

SPEAKER_00 38:38

Because yeah, they announce and then they have to submit themselves. Oh my god.

SPEAKER_03 38:42

No, but people were getting DMs and sending me DMs to basically do you not want to not do the show and come date me? I'm like, what? What? Crazy. Yeah, especially when the show was on too. I was getting not so DMs. But back then, so I don't know. I think something somewhere I don't know how it's don't know what I can all say either about casting.

SPEAKER_00 39:05

Yeah, yeah. Interesting. Um, yeah, I don't know. He'll have to come on, yeah. He'll have to have his own episode, and I'll dive deep into that. Yeah, I'm so glad that it went well. It was really cool. I hope everybody has the experience to see somebody fall in love on TV. Um, he's living with you, obviously. You guys are and what a we work together too.

SPEAKER_03 39:24

He's uh helping me at my store. He's here every day with me.

SPEAKER_00 39:29

That was the other thing. I'm like, you guys really went from TV to living together. That was also something I was surprised at. Like, is he living here? He just moved to Toronto like after this after the season aired, I guess.

SPEAKER_03 39:43

Yeah, pretty much after it it was done airing. He was here about two weeks after. Oh my god. Yeah, but for us, we had been together, like on already. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 39:54

Yeah, yeah, yeah. And again, so intimate on TV. Not on TV, but like you explained that you're so comfortable with the crew. It's a very intimate shoot where you're like in those romantic. So yeah, I guess it's not like an another couple who is like just do each other for a few weeks. It was a like sped up, heightened, more intense experience of getting to know each other. So by the time you move in, it's like it would be weird not to take that step.

SPEAKER_03 40:21

Yeah, we've done so much traveling back and forth. I don't know. The intensity you see any show, they could film for a week and you connect with people in ways that you just wouldn't outside of that. There's just some sort of I don't know, heightened reality that just actually opens you up to the other people around you and you connect on ways. And so, like that experience, and then plus, like, even I don't know, the secretness of it all was a fun time too. At the time, it was very, very difficult. But I look back, I'm like, oh, that was such a like precious, just us, right? Yeah, nobody, I mean, yeah. Well, I always say it's funny before that, I was like, I need to like when I start dating someone, not tell my friends about them. I need it just be it, just be me because anytime I invite my friends in, they would, you know, there's other people or other voices, whatnot. So this experience really, I just got to so cool.

SPEAKER_00 41:17

And now imagine being like Britney Spears and so fucking famous, and meeting somebody that you love or that you're falling in love with, uh what you had to go through on like a level of secrecy. You can you imagine at that level of interest in your private life, how much pressure that would put on your relationship?

SPEAKER_03 41:42

No, I ever since doing reality TV, it's just funny. I I've been more private than ever. Before, I don't, it was also a different time when people were just posting like every time they went for sushi on Instagram or whatnot. But I am so private now. I I if I'm going to share things, it's because I I want to, or I don't know, I'm very protective of my relationship more than ever. And I think before what you were even saying too, there's this like feeling of I don't know, desperation almost of like needing to get something because I'm working so hard and you know, just do anything, throw anything at the wall to make it. And and now I I just don't have that at all. I'm very like interesting.

SPEAKER_00 42:25

See, I I I was thinking about Brittany and her DUI and how like even as much as I love her, um in my and how hard how bad fame was for her, I still watch paparazzi videos, and it's not like God, that's so sad. It was like, man, that would be so cool to like be harassed and mobbed by paparazzi. And everybody I talk to that's like experienced fame, big or small, is like it's like you you get close to it and immediately you're like you pull away because I don't know if it's it's the privacy thing or it's like a lot of celebrities talk about how unnatural it is to be that exposed. And still, out of all the tragic stories we have of celebrities, it's like fame and a fortune is still like the most coveted thing in society. So do you feel like your privacy? Wait, let me rephrase the question. Would it be on the table for you to, you know, do a show with Greg that was like all about your relationship? Like the newlyweds, Jessica and Nick back in the day, for those who are old enough?

SPEAKER_03 43:32

Uh would it be on the table? It would depend on a lot of factors, I suppose. What uh maybe if I was involved in some sort of production side of things or had some control in that way, I uh it would, yeah, it would it just depends. There would be a lot. I I mean if an opportunity came, yeah, would I review what the opportunity is, but yeah. There's a lot of different factors. I just wouldn't want to like put myself in a situation that yeah, is like takes away that privacy too much. So maybe if there was some structure around it, like me and Greg have definitely like met with for like other shows and things like that. But um things that are more yeah, more structured.

SPEAKER_00 44:23

Yeah. I would picking and choosing what you're showing. Because even people who have like the lifestyle shows about their lives, it's still like I notice sometimes on Bravo, they only shoot in one room in their house. Like they'll shoot in the kitchen, you don't see the whole thing. So there's probably ways to manage it. Um, I hope that you do one because I will be knocking on your door when you start shooting or my cameo. I don't care, I'll jump the fence. Um, I I wondered this when you guys rapped and if there would ever be like a TV wedding or something like I you just mentioned like maybe on the table. Obviously, that's not like something that's happening right now, but what's what's going on with like the wedding? Uh wedding in the future? Are you engaged? People want to know, okay. TikTok funny.

SPEAKER_03 45:13

Not that it's uh I don't know, it's just not something that we've prioritized at all, but we're we're very much together and very much uh happy and in love and building our life together. I don't know, it's very conventional getting married, but I I I it's definitely something that we both think about and want in the future.

SPEAKER_00 45:35

I Evan and I were together 10 years and then we got married, and I still I I don't regret it. It was I don't regret my wedding. It was a very special day, but I think one of the best things about being queer is how we're not um we don't have the same social pressure to get married, have kids, and that is a blessing. And gay men, I'm a gay man, so I'm just gonna speak from that experience. We grow old differently, bitch. We're partying, we're taking care of ourselves, we want to look hot in our bathing suits forever. Monogamy, no monogamy, and that is such a like sacred thing that a lot of hetero people don't get to do because it's just it's not even on their radar, really.

SPEAKER_03 46:19

I mean, yeah, I love being gay. I love the freedom, I love the the things that the life we can live. And I mean, people judge in different ways, obviously, and it can be very, very difficult for a lot of people. But at the same time, it's like everything you just said, it's you don't have to choose a path. Like and yeah, make your own. It's great, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 46:40

Okay, traitors, traders, traders. You you did back-to-back reality shows. Well, not back-to-back shooting, but uh, you shot traders once this season for farming was done, right?

SPEAKER_03 46:53

No, no, no, while it was airing, it was a lot.

SPEAKER_00 46:59

Okay, okay, that's insane. Um, I I know because we've spoken about it, and I think maybe it's obvious from a viewer standpoint um what it might be like from an experience level. Like one is catered to you, finding love, and the other is like how evil and manipulated you can be and do to other people. So I don't know, talk to me about like how traders came in. I know you can't talk too much about that, but like what's your mind frame now going from farming for love, meeting Greg, and then saying yes for some crazy reason to doing a show like Traders.

SPEAKER_03 47:39

Well, I love shows like Traders, so I was jumping for I'm like, yes, let's do it. Uh I actually loved Big Brother, so that's kind of where that started. And I watched Survivor, all these shows. And so Traders was kind of newer at that time, but I already watched a bunch of different of the like the franchises um for other countries and everything. So I was so do it. A little murder mystery. I mean, I was a faithful, so I didn't have to be treacherous.

SPEAKER_00 48:07

Did you want to be a trader? Like when they asked you, because I know anybody auditions, they ask you.

SPEAKER_03 48:12

Well, I mean, no, I'm no, I'm very happy with being a faithful. It was very much in line with I I knew I was going to be at the same time too, because I don't know, I was a farmer Kirkland and all these things. I was just like, I'm gonna be a faithful. Um, so no, I was I was you know, it's you talk about the music. Uh there's before the round table, they they play like the hunger games. That is fucked. Are you yes? So you sit there and they they make the mood. The whole experience of traitors, you know, you you know, you don't have your phone, you don't have contact with the outside world, you don't have anything. And so you just it's like a different reality. Like when you're there, it is life or death. Like people are being murdered in the middle of the night. There is a traitor on the loose, you know, it's so real and so quickly. They just do such a good job. And like Crane, the host, she would, she's just there as the lady of the manor and just sets the scene and makes you feel this way. Like it was just, I don't know, it was like I stepped into a different universe while I was there.

SPEAKER_00 49:20

I one thing that I've heard about traders, and you said is like talking about structure, like obviously you guys had to shoot different scenes, but it sounds like you get to the house, they put you in a mic, and it's like free-for-all. They're not like obviously they follow you with cameras, but it's not like farming where you know you're standing there, and then he comes up and you have a conversation, and people are getting it's it's apart from the round table, it seems like you get to the manor and y'all are just like socializing and getting getting into the game right away.

SPEAKER_03 49:55

It's pretty it's actually, I would say it's almost more structured, structured. Oh, it's like, well, I mean, there's breakfast and then you go to a challenge, and so then you get reality, which is like just times, and then you're a round table. So you're really going from like thing to thing to thing all day long, and then plus like breakfast is it can be quite a long time. So if you're one of the last people there, you're just in your room for however long. Well, other people have been there for so long, and um then yeah, and then you're you are there's times when you're running around for sure. I was running around the one day my last day, crying with cameras chasing me around.

SPEAKER_00 50:32

I know you told me that. I fucking listen, Tranna. I I was so I somebody brought her up to me. What was I doing? Oh, she opened for oh god, he's a really famous gay comedian recently.

SPEAKER_03 50:45

Just recently, she yeah, she opened up for uh Mateo Lane.

SPEAKER_00 50:48

Yeah, Mateo, right. So I was at a dinner party last night and somebody brought her up, and I was like, I I know, I was not happy with the way she treated Farmer Kirkland. When you're in the round table, so they're playing the Hunger Games, obviously that's setting a mood. Scale of one to ten out of the most intense things you've experienced, how intense is it when somebody starts coming for you?

SPEAKER_03 51:13

Well, I was not, no one let me in. It was definitely a blind side. So the first night it was suddenly actually like Pac-Ban had said something, but then when Miss Melinda Burga turns on me with her speech, I I don't know, I was it was coming at me, and uh it feels like you're fighting for your life. And you're how do you convince these people? And you're telling them. And I think in my case, a lot of them may have known they just were deciding they needed me off. I don't know, maybe they needed the screen time. Why? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Totally. And I was there to play a game, and I don't know, and then I had my uh my bestie on the show, Mary Joe, turn on me, but then so I had to do a little how she went. And I don't know, it feels very intense. So even the next day, the whole day, because I knew I was fighting for my life that whole day, it was like I said, it feels like real life or death. I loved it though. Like I absolutely love the experience. I wouldn't do it again in a heartbeat. I I don't know anyone that has done traders that you don't hear that. And you see how intense people get and crazy and fights, and and and they all, everybody, I'll listen to podcasts, like every country, they say the same thing. And they're just they go through hell and back, but they're like, I would do it again on a heartbeat. And it's something about I don't know that from a lot of shows. So you see a lot of big brother players, everything they're like, I would know maybe I don't know, or this or that. Something about traitors, or it's like, yes.

SPEAKER_00 52:48

Yeah, maybe it's the pace of the show. Like Big Brother, I feel like is social endurance. You're just like there. Traitors is like, as a viewer, it's like so fast paced. It's like people are just going nonstop. So I always like watching the show. Sometimes you're like, how do you not know that people are coming for you? And the only thing I compare it to is like you're at a party and you feel like maybe somebody's talking about you, but you can't really prove it. And it sort of makes you insecure and anxious, or maybe in your head. But at a party, you can leave, or you can get drunk, or like you can, I guess you could drink on traders, but like is it similar to that where you start your spidey senses are like, okay, nobody's saying it to my face, but I feel like the tides are changing, and I can't pinpoint how or who, but you you feel the dynamic change. Is that what happens?

SPEAKER_03 53:45

Well, it depends. It can depend on what car you get into, right? So when you go to the challenges, you're whoever you're in that vehicle with, and that's who you're talking to. And my last day, I was with Michael John, who was one of the traders in both car rides and Nanetta on the other way. Um, I don't know. For me, it how it happened at the round table. It was really, they just came at me. I look back on my spidey senses for who the traders were, though, were really good. I look at my notes, and I just, I knew who was faithful. I just knew it. And I they were like, there's no way, there's no way, there's no way. And then my only question marks were the people that were just randomly after me for no reason, and then the three traders. Plus, I mean, I had watched Big Brother, I knew Netta, nobody else in that manner. I could have, I could have said so many things, even on my last. I just when I when I was going out, I had almost said something, and I literally just like What would you have said? What would you have said? Well, I just none, like I I there's some things I don't want to say. But I um I would I just that I knew her and that she was acting, and I had uh a pile of things that I had watched her do through the time and just not speaking, and she was just sitting there in a ribbons of bows and being so sweet and innocent. I loved Netta to death, and I'm so happy that I didn't because I was gonna go out anyways, and I was I was rooting for her like murder them all.

SPEAKER_00 55:11

I've seen some like banishments um where the people talk like in their confessional, like Candice recently did it that she was gonna call out Rob in America. Um, she kind of did, but I want somebody to be like, they're a traitor. I don't know if that's happened. I watch it a lot, but are you allowed to do that? Can traitors out traitors on the way out?

SPEAKER_03 55:36

No, not directly. They can really hint though. Yeah. Um it's happened. People don't, I don't know, it's bad sportsmanship for me. If you get you get taken out, you're taken out. I I don't like it. It's really unless the person that they're doing it to did something that wasn't poor sportsmanship as well, maybe. I don't know. I just don't like it. It's like you you got got go. Um that's how I feel about it.

SPEAKER_00 56:03

When the show finished, how quickly did you talk to Melinda?

SPEAKER_03 56:08

Uh well, I saw her on Pride right after Vancouver Pride. She was here performing. She came and uh I was with Tommy Wynn. So she was doing the the main stage there in Vancouver and she had uh what was it? Oh her lipstick. I laughed. Melinda. Um, yeah, no, so I I saw her after that. Uh I you know, it's I'm buying with Melinda.

SPEAKER_00 56:35

There's no like you say, like people are like, oh yeah, I'll go back. Like it was so fun. But there has to be a little like you fucking you came for me.

SPEAKER_03 56:44

It was even though me me and Melinda didn't have like from the beginning. I found it hard. I would always try to talk to her. We're in the car driving in together, but we didn't get to really bond. But when I watch the show back, I see that she was after me from the moment she saw me before I think I think before the traders were even selected, she was already saying my name. Psychic um, yeah. I know it was different. But Tranna, me and Tranna were very, very close. And then she she I didn't know she was working with they were playing a different game. It was like they were playing Big Brother and doing these alliances, they weren't looking for traders, so it was different. Yeah, um, so it was different. I felt more definitely more hurt from Trana than Linda.

SPEAKER_00 57:25

There's um I was talking to PM from Drag Race, and PM was like, it was always their dream to have a fight on reality TV, and they got that in the workroom. And how PM was like, it's it's it is what you think, but it's not what you think because it's real emotions, but there's like a whole, like there's a whole wall of like cameras and producers there. So when you think about like us back in the day with housewives and like being in the club and like wanting to be famous, now that you're on TV and you've had a taste of that, what would you say the biggest surprise has been for you going into that world?

SPEAKER_03 58:08

Uh, I think I almost touched on it earlier, just it really how it pulled me back after after there was this sense of just I don't know that I can say no. I don't feel like I need to make sure I'm at this thing or getting what's next or whatnot. Now I'm I'm saying no. And I've had multiple podcasts reach out, and I'm just this or like other love you, but lots of things. And I feel just grounded in myself, all that. I don't know if this is exactly what the question because I know it's like almost what was different.

SPEAKER_00 58:46

Um no, no, it's it's like so few people in the world get to go on TV and then be like, okay, I used to really want to be on TV and now I'm now I'm on TV. What is the difference? And I think about this a lot with like Lady Gaga, her whole foundation when she started her career was the fame. Celebrity culture, I'm famous, you're famous, fame is like a mind frame, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Becomes a huge superstar, breaks her, rejects the idea of Lady Gaga, and completely changes her perception, philosophy, and the way she talks about fame. So interesting because that was her whole thing. And only her and like a very small amount of people can get to that level and understand why, why they switched. So for you, even though it's not at that level, it is a unique situation to be like, I wanted it and now I'm here. And when you're lying in bed at night and you're thinking about, oh, it's on TV, that's really crazy. There must be like things where you're like, Yeah, I didn't, I didn't expect that.

SPEAKER_03 59:50

Yeah, um, I just it's definitely not what you think. I mean, for one, when I was younger and dreaming about it, as I said, it was like, I thought that fame or not fame, but really like booking a role was like this pinnacle of success in your life is gonna change. Um, now it's just like when I'm shopping at the grocery store, someone recognizes me or something. I'm like, how often does that happen? Quite a bit. It always happens performing for love. I didn't, I don't think I realized how many people watch that show. And they still do. I still get people, I think it's airing in the States on like Hulu right now or something.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:29

Oh my god.

SPEAKER_03 1:00:29

Um and so I'm getting all this new wave of followers too online and people just finding it. Um so many, I don't know, 30 to 60-year-old women um watch it. A lot of gays, lots of gays watched it actually. Okay, okay, okay. A ton did. A lot, I think, watched it in secret too, though, um, and didn't. Um all over town, not just here though, not just in Chillach. It's it's I I'm so surprised how many people watched it.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:04

When they see you and they come up to you, what do they say?

SPEAKER_03 1:01:08

Well, it's a um there can be it's funny because if Greg's there, we have to go through a dance of, you know, were you Team Greg? Were you not? We were at a uh dollar store here, and the lady was clearly not Team Greg. And it was so funny, though. He laughs about it. Uh she was like, I know you from TV. Um they'll say that. I like, you know, they'll just say that right away usually. And then um I was like, yeah, oh yeah, and Greg's here. She's like, yeah, I see him. Whoa, that's so crazy. Yeah. But then we get we get so many people that just come up, they'll tell me their life story too right away. And I don't know, I I don't mind it. It depends on the situation, I guess. But people are just happy to to meet you and start seeing someone gave him this my store the other day, and I she I think she had just found she didn't know that was my store, and she's looking at me. She's like, Do I? And she's like, I know you.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:08

Do they ask for selfies or they just want to talk to you? Yeah, people do tons.

SPEAKER_03 1:02:12

Um when I was at uh this, I don't if I'm out like it was like a pride, I was getting asked constantly, and they were like, you know, you're just there all day long having drinks. I'm like, if I'm drinking it all or anything like that, I'm not really that's true selfies.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:30

Yeah, but you have to say no, like if you're at a party party and you're like getting into it.

SPEAKER_03 1:02:36

I just I don't know. I like to look my best. You're gonna go tag me.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:40

Yeah, my god, I can't wait till I'm with you and that happens. You know, Darcy Michael, Darcy Michael, they him and Jarr is like they can't go anywhere ever. I think they have like five million followers. Oh wow, like it's insane. Yeah, they can't go anywhere. Um, social media, like it's a whole different kind of fame. He said, because people watch them on the phones, it's almost like a FaceTime, so it's a very personal connection. Khloe Kardashian said the same thing because people are watching you fall in love, so they really feel like they know you, I guess. They come up to you and Greg, and they're like a part of your journey in some way, I guess.

SPEAKER_03 1:03:24

I think there's a big part of that for sure. And people that there's a mix too. There's, I would say the gays that were seeing themselves in a situation that they hadn't seen kind of before. Um, they would they went both ways though. People were very, very critical in a lot of ways. Uh no matter what side I took, there was people like you should do this, you should do this. And I'm sort of I I don't know, social media went crazy for us too. The like Farming for Love Instagram, all that, their TikToks I watched, like their numbers went insane because it was just unique. It's a unique thing that we haven't seen a lot of, and barely at all. I mean, I don't even know other there's maybe two other gays that have done it, uh like uh shows just like this. I mean, there's been Queer Ultimatum, all those other shows, and the lesbians have got their their their their turn, which is great. Um, but no, I felt like people had this like precious thing, or uh women would think like I'm their their best friend that they saw on TV and um things like that. And then yeah, of course, with the the phone, it was the same way. I guess they would just there was people that watched Farming for Love from the States just on TikTok or Instagram. That's they didn't have the they didn't have CTV or Crave. And did they have full episodes on TikTok? No, but they would post so much, so there would be full scenes and they would literally be waiting for the next post, and like that's how they followed along.

SPEAKER_00 1:04:48

Oh my god, yeah. I didn't get I'm out of the loop. TikTok, you guys are on TikTok a lot.

SPEAKER_03 1:04:55

Yeah, I go through, I mean, we've had I've done some things where I've done like brand deals and things like that. So we'd post and I'd share. I like honestly, right now it's mostly my retail store I'll be sharing, and then we I get to the point too where I again where I don't want to share too much, or I don't, whatever, and I go through waves and then I'll start pushing it again. And I mean it helps with uh life nowadays. I think of it more like business, I guess. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:05:22

Do you feel pressure to be on social media to like keep up the Kirk and Greg story?

SPEAKER_03 1:05:28

I I like to sh, you know, enough to keep up. Uh people definitely when we don't post or DMing and asking, we got quite a few people that like follow along and want to know. And uh there is a part of that where I do I want to, you know, share a little bit. We met on TV and uh people enjoy it. But I don't know. I I used to, I don't yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:05:54

I don't know. Social media is weird. I've heard um Kara Cunningham formerly Chris Crocker has posted a lot about how social media has changed so much. And she's pretty much like, you can't, it's it's not you can't build a following. There are so many bots. That's one of the big things. And she was talking about how they're trying to understand DMs more, like the amount of DMs content creators make. But do you find there's a difference from when you like first come off the show or like even before? Because I remember um COVID, you were building a lot of momentum on TikTok. Like you got a following. Um, have you noticed a difference in terms of like engagement and followers and stuff?

SPEAKER_03 1:06:40

Yeah, I think well, TikTok then, I don't think a lot of people were on it, and so now it's really saturated. And people are really, I don't know, it was more original then, and plus I was really like native TikTok, hashtag think native TikTok was such a big thing. Um and really, I would share stories, share just my perspective, and people were really interested in that. But then again, I would get to points where I don't like if at any moment my like indigenous self feels like people are trying to brand me or anything, I immediately pull away. So if people even me posting or doing anything, I will retract so quickly because I'm like, it's not something that is for commercial use. Yes, it's my identity. And uh there was a part of that with social media where I I see a lot of it too, and people kind of they do really lean into it, but I'm really it's not it's that's not for me.

SPEAKER_00 1:07:40

Yeah. So it's you know that now. I mean, you're lucky that you can be outside of social media because uh I feel for people who build their entire businesses on it and how I mean I still use that. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:07:51

And we're still even we're gonna do a little YouTube channel, actually. That's where uh we've already started.

SPEAKER_00 1:07:56

Oh yeah, I think I sent some I sent some messages to your to your um business website. Um yeah, yeah. Um okay, we've talked about a lot starting in film school and getting on TV, how representation has changed, the way that you have understood fame, or at least being exposed in a small way, and how that made you like want to be more private. You're so in love, you guys are building a life. What's next, Farmer Kirkland? Where are we going? Where are you taking us next?

SPEAKER_03 1:08:32

Well, I mean, I'm me and Greg are building our uh life out here working on the store pretty much every day. So if anyone ever wants to come in, two cheaps, come on.

SPEAKER_02 1:08:42

I do.

SPEAKER_03 1:08:43

Uh but no, we do actually have uh nothing I can say yet, but something that might be, I don't know. Oh my gosh. It would be public. Tell me. Um tell me. You gotta wait and see. I hate you. Yeah, I hate you. I need to know. I don't know. You're gonna have to wait. We have to wait. Everyone's you never know. You never know until uh things are done.

SPEAKER_00 1:09:07

So we will be waiting with bated breath, especially me, praying for a docu soap that I can come in and throw a glass at someone. Um but thank you so much for finally coming on. I've been begging you for like, I don't know, a long time, and I'm glad we finally it's crazy to know you for so long and still talk to you like I don't know you because you've had this experience. Again, it's so unique. People don't get to go on TV very often, not to mention two back-to-back shows, not to mention falling in love and meeting your person on TV. And I was excited to talk to you, but I I was like so excited during the conversation to learn. I thought I knew already, but like just hearing behind the scenes a little bit what you could share was really cool. So thank you for coming. Thank you for having me.

SPEAKER_03 1:10:00

I'm glad we finally gotta make this work and yeah, share a little.

SPEAKER_00 1:10:05

You'll be back. You'll be back when you notice your new stuff.