Off The Chips
This podcast centers on kids and families in agriculture, encouraging the development of personal and team leadership through real-life, one-on-one experiences with business owners. Each episode provides valuable insights and practical advice on nurturing leadership skills within families and communities, showcasing their journeys and stories. The podcast also features highlights from our week-long competitive event in the summer, focusing on many individual contests and a cattle show. It's an engaging and inspiring resource for listeners who are passionate about growth, development, and fostering strong leadership qualities from a young age.
Off The Chips
“Real change takes real conversations — and this one pulls no punches.”
DNA, Transparency & The Future of FUZION
Junior Board Vice-President Madison Fischer takes the mic alongside Senior Board President Ryan Sweeney and industry voices Jason Shepard and Colby Cummings to tackle the conversations most shy away from.
At FUZION, we believe real change starts with bold leadership, tough questions, and the courage to look ahead. This episode dives straight into DNA, transparency, and the foresight it takes to shape the future for our youth in agriculture.
FUZION isn’t just about today — we’re building what comes next.
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Welcome
SPEAKER_00:to Off the Chips. Today, Junior Board Vice President Madison Fisher sits down and talks about the challenges of DNA submission and transparency. We're asking the questions families are asking, and how organizations like Fusion are shaping a clearer, more honest future for junior exhibitors.
SPEAKER_02:Hey, y'all. My name is Madison Fisher. I'm the current vice president on the junior board, and I'd like to introduce the people I have here today. We have Mr. Ryan Sweeney, who's the president on the senior board from Oklahoma. We have Mr. Colby Cummings, and we have Mr. Jason Shepard, also from Oklahoma. If you'd like to go ahead and introduce yourselves.
SPEAKER_03:You bet. Thank you for having me on today. My name is Jason Shepard. I am from Davenport, Oklahoma. I am the general manager at Genesis Enterprises. We run about 1,000 head of cows, and I've been in the cattle business business about 35 years.
SPEAKER_05:I'm Colby Cummings. I'm from Batesville, Arkansas. This is actually our first, my kids' first Junior National here. And we brought a couple heifers over because of the Invitational and kind of the way it got opened up. So instead of going to two Junior Nationals, we had the opportunity to just come to this one. So my background is I've showed cattle for years and we do a lot of consulting and some custom fitting for some
SPEAKER_04:guys. Ryan Sweeney and I am from Perkins, Oklahoma. Grew up in the Angus business. Been in the cattle business my entire life. My wife, Danae, and our three boys, Kate, Colby, and Cash live in Perkins. Raised right at Angus and Angus Cattle. And we've been involved here at this event for several years and look forward to it every year and appreciate the opportunity to be on this podcast this afternoon.
SPEAKER_02:Well, I appreciate it, guys. We're here with Off the Chips with Fusion and our topic today is DNA. Now as a junior board member, I do have some personal questions with my personal experiences, especially with turnaround time, security of the sample and lack of education from members in the association and following through with the results of the DNA. So what are y'all's opinions about how the association handles these things?
SPEAKER_04:I think one of the things that to echo some of your concerns is The amount of turnaround time that we have on this can be frustrating, especially if you're in a situation, you know, you're trying to get ready for a sale, or you've made a sale on some cattle, or trying to get ready to go to an event. The turnaround time has been a little bit of a frustration. The DNA is a very important tool that we have in the business now, and it needs to be utilized. I think some of the efficiencies, though, of how it's being conducted at this point is something we definitely need to focus on as an industry and try to move forward to make it more effective.
SPEAKER_02:Right and I totally agree because being from Texas as well as we sell many cattle and especially we have to make that November 1st cutoff for validation and when the turnaround time is you know takes longer than other associations it's quite frustrating because those cattle have to be neonated before validation so it's frustrating for exhibitors as well and it makes it hard on us to you.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, and I think to help that process that what we could do as an association to help these things out and expedite this, you know, if we could move this along a little faster and let the people that are going through the DNA and going through all the markers and working it for us, let them feed that information back to us and have less people looking at it and taking longer to compute that data and get that data back to us. I think that would help streamline it and make it more efficient for the breeders and the customers that are using those services.
SPEAKER_05:Yeah, and I know a couple weeks ago me and Ryan talked about some frustrations that we were having with our DNA issues. And I told him, I said, you know, if we trust these companies to run the markers, then they should be able to have access to the database too to be able to put that information in. Because then, like I said before and what I told you guys before we started recording, it's just streamlining it. You know, the less people touch it, usually the more accurate it is. And it doesn't matter what industry you're doing or whatever's involved usually the more people that's involved in something the more chaotic life gets so when when you are able to take that company if you trust them you know to be able to run these markers and to parent verify and all this then i think you should be able to give them the access to
SPEAKER_03:your database and the fewer desks that it go that it goes across the quicker it gets turned back to us and we get that data back 100 exactly
SPEAKER_02:do y'all think it should just go straight to the lab instead of going to the Association first.
SPEAKER_04:Yes. I would agree with that. And have them interpret the data and read the markers, interpret the data, send the results back. If it needs to go back through the association so they have record of it, I think that's fine. But as Colby said, you know, the less hands that– and Jason did too– the less hands that are touching it, the people that are familiar with it, they are a third party. That's what they specialize in. They have the tools and the capabilities, you know. human error is natural. It's unavoidable and it's nobody's fault necessarily every time. But if we can just cut it down to where the data is just getting formulated and put out in a timely manner, it will help.
SPEAKER_03:Absolutely. Send it back to the association and if they want to verify themselves, you know, they have the chance at that point to look over it and get it on back to the members that are waiting on it.
SPEAKER_02:Right. I totally agree because like, I mean, we raise Brangus too as well and it actually gets sent to the same lab and its turnaround time is way quicker than the Red Angus Association. So I think that's something that's pretty interesting. So what do y'all think is something that is the process of what takes so long, like collecting DNA? What do you think, or how could we change that process to make that quicker as well when collecting data besides just hair?
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, I think to make it more efficient for the entire industry, I think if everybody could get on the same page of using the same kind of samples to where there's less chance of contamination, less chance of crossing numbers or something If we could all get to the tissue sample, in my opinion, I think that gives us the safest, the quickest, and the best record of the DNA with the less chance of it becoming contaminated by some other source or some other outside area, you know. I
SPEAKER_01:agree.
SPEAKER_05:Well, I know when we first started having stuff parent-verified through the Lemmy breed and some of the other breed associations we're tied to, I thought it was a big, long, drawn-out process. And when I finally didn't realize that it was either, you know, a handful of hair or two drops of blood or the tissue sample. And I think it goes back to not only the association from an education standpoint, but Zoetta, Snidge, and all those guys running those markers to put out that education. Because I think... There's a lot of breeders out there that is scared, not necessarily scared, but maybe intimidated by running this. And I think that the more that they're educated and understand the simplicity of it, that it's not that hard of a thing to do. And so I think it's a twofold system. I think the companies that are running the test, I think the association needs to show these guys that it's not this overcomplicated process like a lot of people think.
SPEAKER_02:So do you think that the Red Angus Association and other associations as well should have put on educational, you know, at convention or some places like that to where they talk about these things. Because I think the lack of education within these breeds are an issue as well. Do you think that's something that could help improve this problem?
SPEAKER_04:I think without question, you know, people with every new technology comes, you know, that comes along. I mean, three of us sitting around this table that are a little older than Madison is. We've seen some other technologies come through. You think back to when ultrasound first came out and the adoption of that and there was tons of turmoil about that and so on and so forth and it's that way with everything. But once they get educated about it and through that education there are things that get sorted out on both sides. Whether it be the ones receiving the data or the ones that are submitting the data to make those efficiencies come along and it getting it to where they understand the process. You take some fear factor out of who's controlling it and where it's going and who's going to have access to it and things like that. I think it's very important. And understanding what tests are out there. They may not need to test for everything. They may just need to get apparent verification. Some people may think if I submit DNA, I've got to run a 50K test on everything when really all they need to know is a sire or dam
SPEAKER_03:and we're in an industry that that the old rule of thumb is if it's not broken don't fix it we as producers and breeders have to get out of that mindset and have to be willing to go educate ourselves on it too as well not just dependent upon somebody else to feed that information to you if you're going to use this data and really change what it's doing in your program you need to educate yourself and be educated on just like what ryan said which ones do i need to use do i need to use all of them what fits my program the best and what I'm trying to do. I think we need to be better about self-educating ourselves.
SPEAKER_02:Right. No, I totally agree. Do you think there needs to be more transparency from these associations, especially on, you know, for example, after you win a show, you know, there's DNA, there's hair collected. Do you think there needs to be more transparency as far as the security of the sample and where it's going and who it's going to?
SPEAKER_03:Absolutely.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah,
SPEAKER_02:it does. I agree.
SPEAKER_05:Absolutely,
SPEAKER_04:because that is nothing more than a lawsuit waiting to be brewed. years. I mean, back since I started showing, you know, it's not new, but people still get a little, they don't understand the process.
SPEAKER_02:Right. I agree. And I'd like to share one of my personal experiences. I had a heifer my senior year. She had DNA collected, let's see it, Denver, Fort Worth, Louisville. There were several other shows, but she had been DNA'd approximately eight times. Now in those eight times, I had never got any contact information back. I had no transparency after that DNA was taken, and yet there was still a red box around her paper. Well, all the association said was, well, you can't show her because she was a 1B. So I think tying it back to Fusion for the show, I actually love the opportunity that now that we have these Angus percentages shows, some of these kids and cattle that don't have the same opportunity, you know, the kids that can't go to both junior nationals, you know, some kids aren't as fortunate as others in families and in certain situations, and I think it's an all some opportunities to take all these cattle and Angus percentages to this show for sure
SPEAKER_03:absolutely I think that's a game changer for Fusion and the Fusion show adopting and bringing in the Angus side and the percentages of it and let them utilize the DNA to show us what we have but then allow them to come and bring their project and show it off like all the other kids that have the purebreds get to do too there's no reason in penalizing those kids because they have a percentage or a half below or something like that i think i think what we're doing here with fusion is a great idea and a great concept
SPEAKER_01:i agree
SPEAKER_04:i mean colby he mentioned earlier this is their first one and they brought two black ones to this deal and uh you know it's a great way to to broaden that horizon and focus on there's more than just the you know there's breeding programs and how those breeding programs work to get those black angus cattle versus red angus cattle versus limb flexes or whatever it is and you know trying to get that message across and educate these kids that you know there's another way to change your genetics and move your program forward
SPEAKER_02:right I totally agree and this may not be all just about DNA but about associations and how they work as well because you know some people and especially older generations like to turn their nose up about the idea of merging the black and red cattle together but actually you know I've been in Argentina and Buenos Aires, going to that show, and Mexico and Canada and all those countries you go to, the black and red cattle are all together. The association is as one. So I think that's something important that we should all also think about, especially here in the United States, that in all other countries, they're actually together. So I think the more us people and producers work together, I think that's when we solve more issues and problems like these as well.
SPEAKER_04:We introduced the Black Red Carrier Show last year, to Fusion. It was the first time that in the U.S. that we've been able to show those black-red carriers. And, you know, we showed one of those, and it was a great experience for us. We campaigned her in Oklahoma heavily. We showed her here. And it was amazing how many times that heifer was shown as an AOB in Oklahoma when she was campaigned there and how many times we'd be around ringside and people would ask, what is she? you know, they couldn't understand. She looked like a black Angus. Why isn't she in the Angus show? And we explained what she was and had a lot of questions as to why did we, I mean, she was a bred known of ours, of my oldest cades. And they said, why did you do that? And, you know, and part of it was expanding that genetic footprint that you have. You don't have, you know, I grew up in the Angus breed. I became familiar with the red Angus breed when I was in college on my internship. And, you know, there's different sizes of genetic pools within the breed some breeds are bigger than others and being able to expand that gene pool a little bit to get those genetics and change some things change some phenotype change some feet change you know performance all those different things it's a great opportunity to do that but those cattle never had a place to go they just Showed as a commercial most places, if they even got to show. And, you know, by having it here, we can showcase what those cattle can do. They are part of the red Angus industry. They're part of the Angus industry and other parts of the world, whether, you know, people would like to acknowledge it or not. They're a big portion of it. And I think this is a great tool for us to help promote that and explain that to the next generation of cattle people that you can do this. This is how you can, it's forward thinking, I guess, for lack of a better term.
SPEAKER_03:Ryan, I think you hit on something key there on what the crossing of those can do to each other, where they can help out, the improvements they can make. And being able to bring those here and show them does exactly what you're saying. It allows those kids, okay, this is what we're doing. This is what we aimed for, and here's the prodigy of it. This is what we've got. And it's a great opportunity for them to show that and showcase what they've been doing.
SPEAKER_05:And when we found out that you guys started that side of it, I mean, last year we literally bred cows. We bred our red cows back black to make those. And my dad said, well, what are you going to do if they come out bulls? I said, we'd worry about that part later. But thankfully, the one that I needed to be a heifer was. But I think one thing that Fusion, from a guy that's been in other breeds and looking outside and from the inside of this out, A couple years ago, we send cattle to Neal out to his sale in Oklahoma, and we had a Foundation Lemmy. Well, Foundation Lemmys don't have a show because she's not flexed because she was out of a semangus cow. So we fought because she would be an AOB, but then by the time she got to OYE Tulsa, and she couldn't go to Congress because Congress didn't have an AOB show or whatever's left. So she didn't fit in anywhere. And to me, it's seeing this open up and letting more people see this. I hope more breed associations take into consideration of these foundation programs to allow people to breed up. Not always can a kid just buy a purebred or a solution or a percentage or whatever to be able to go to a certain junior national and all that. So I think the one thing is that I hope that what other associations take out of this is that you can open your books up. You can provide more for this because, I mean, it's more registrations. It's more people involved. It's more memberships. You know, there's a lot more to it than just, well, we're going to have to come up with$500, you know, for awards for one more show. So that's my two cents.
SPEAKER_02:Right. I completely agree. I think it involving more kids gives more opportunity and allows the kids that have been coming to this show for a while allowed to meet new people and network because, I mean, I don't know if many people know, but this is actually my 11th Junior Nationals here. So I've been coming to this show for a pretty long time, and I think having that opportunity opens it up to a lot of kids because, yeah, I show red cattle too, but I also have black cattle. So I wouldn't have brought as many heifers here if we didn't have this show and open up to the black cattle. So I think that's something that can take into consideration that if we didn't open the show up to black cattle, I think not other people would have came.
SPEAKER_04:So, one thing, you know, as we talk about that and expanding the shows and the visibility of those, as I talked about in the black, you know, the black card carrier deal was new to Fusion last year. We campaigned that one last year, but at two of the shows back to Colby's point that he had with that Foundation Lemmy, we had the same problem with that heifer at two major shows being told in an OYE. She showed as a commercial at both those because she was an AOB there but this year at our preview show in Oklahoma which is two weeks ago I guess it was Jason and they there was some there was other black red carriers coincidentally that are not here they did not make the trip here but they actually had a black red carrier breed represented at that all breed preview show you know they show everything from I mean from every letter of the alphabet and the black red Curious had their own division. They were recognized as a breed. And I think that's a true testament that people are starting to realize and see some value in them and recognizing those kids that are trying to breed up and do some different things like Colby said.
SPEAKER_03:That's an attribute to Fusion and their foresight to get that show out there and see what it could do and what it is for the kids. And you're going to see more and more people take off and incorporate that into their show program moving forward, I promise you. Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:Well, I'd like to thank y'all for coming. I'd like to thank Mr. Shepard, Mr. Cummings, and Mr. Sweeney here for being on Off the Chips with Fusion. Just like Ms. Jennifer said earlier when she came to speak here at the show, she said, you know, we have to keep talking about having the tough conversations and not stopping halfway. I think if we continue these conversations, we can help educate new breeders and producers and these kids and the next generation of youth. So stay tuned, everybody, for our next episode on our podcast. Thank you.
SPEAKER_03:Thanks for having us.
SPEAKER_00:Thank you for having us, Madison.