From Startup to Exit
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From Startup to Exit
Microsoft@50: Birth of Microsoft, with its Sixth Employee, Steve Wood
In this 4th installment of the Microsoft@50 series we bring you Steve Wood who was the sixth employee at Microsoft. He was recruited out of Stanford where he completed his Masters in Electrical Engineering. He went on to work at Microsoft's Albuquerque office in 1976 where he had the opportunity to work closely with Bill Gates and Paul Allen. He worked on the FORTRAN compiler before becoming a General Manager. He left Microsoft in 1980 and later joined Asymetrix and found Starwave with Paul Allen. He became a serial entrepreneur starting companies such as Wireless Services Corporation.
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Hosts: Shirish Nadkarni and Gowri Shankar
Producers: Minee Verma and Eesha Jain
YouTube Channel: https://www.youtube.com/@fromstartuptoexitpodcast
Whether you were HP or IBM or DEC or then MCR and other people, it was your business model was to sell hardware. And the reason you had a software group inside the company writing operating systems and things like that was to be able to sell more hardware. And so this notion that you could create a software company independently of hardware was pretty unique. And that was, you know, obviously that you could attribute that to the vision that Paul and Bill had when they started the company.
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SPEAKER_02:Hello everybody. Welcome to another episode of our podcast from Startup to Exit. I'm here with my co-host Sharice Dutkarney. My name is Gary Shankar. We both serve on the board of Thai Seattle, which produces this podcast. First of all, we both want to thank you for all the support that you've given us over the last year, where we have brought this podcast to all of you. And I hope all of you have enjoyed all the content that we are bringing from our guests. We are launching a very special series. We are launching a series that is very close to both our hearts because we are both Seattleites. Microsoft just turned 50. And as a tribute to the company and the impact it's had on the world and our city, we are going to talk to some of the very early executives who shaped and grew the Microsoft brand to what it is today. I hope all of you enjoy it. We will be talking to many of them. And over the time, you will learn a lot of things about the early years of Microsoft. Thank you all and hope you enjoy it.
SPEAKER_01:Welcome everyone. Today is our fourth installment of the Microsoft 50 series. I'd like to welcome Steve Wood, who was one of the earliest employees at uh Microsoft. I understand he was number six. And in fact, worked in the Albuquerque uh office uh when he joined Microsoft in 1976, a year after they were founded. He's also in that famous uh photograph of all Microsoftis. Uh they all look like hippies. Uh Steve is the guy with the metal parting, long hair, and big sideburns uh right at the back on the left-hand side. And I understand they've taken a picture more recently as well. Um Steve also went on to work for Paul Allen uh at AC Metrics and then founded uh Starwave, which was another successful venture. Uh, knew him around 2001 timeframe when he was uh running Wireless Services Corporation, which was doing mobile data services for uh wireless carriers. So welcome, Steve. Good to have you.
SPEAKER_05:Thanks, Sharif.
SPEAKER_01:Good to be here. So uh before we get into your career at Microsoft, uh tell us a little bit about your educational background.
SPEAKER_05:So I went to uh college first at Case Western Reserve University, which is uh sort of a smallish college and university in Cleveland, been there for a long time, um, got a very good technology school then as well as now, and uh got an undergraduate degree in computer engineering, which was computer science with slightly less math and slightly more electrical engineering, um, but basically computer science. And um and then, you know, side note, I my I I took a minor in psychology just because I thought it was really interesting and it was really different from computer science, so it was something else to to learn and spend time on. And then from there I went to Stanford for a master's degree. And like a lot of schools, uh Stanford has sort of two tracks for master's program. They have a program where you do a full two years and do a thesis uh in preparation for going on and getting a PhD, and then they have a track for more of an applied master's, you know, where you just want the the learning and experience for the master's degree. That's what I did. And uh electroengineering was the topic there. And the side note there is I was very fortunate uh in the second semester I was there, um got an opportunity to be a research assistant at SLAC, uh the Stanford Linear Accelerator Center, um, which of course was and is doing fascinating physics research. But the reason I ended up there is because they had a state-of-the-art computing facility. Uh, of course, at that time, you know, uh decades ago, uh that met a huge room full of IBM mainframe computers. But the other thing they were doing um that uh that sort of led to some of my future interests was using some of the early microprocessors in smart terminals. Um instead of just having a stupid CRT sitting there and all the intelligence was in the mainframe, there was a little bit of text editing intelligence actually out locally in those computer terminals that were powered by an 8080 or a Z80. And so I got a little bit of exposure to programming microprocessors, which I thought was fascinating.
SPEAKER_01:So uh after graduating from uh from Stanford, uh looks like uh that's when you joined Microsoft. Uh Microsoft at that time was a very small company based out of Albuquerque. Uh, how did you even hear about uh uh Microsoft?
SPEAKER_05:So they decided uh that that they wanted to recruit a few more software engineers, and this was in the summer of 76. So about a year or so after they went to Albuquerque and started the company. Their method was to post placement notices at a few select universities that they felt had really high-quality computer programs, computer science programs. Um so places like Carnegie Mellon and Stanford and Caltech and MIT and you know, probably a few others. Um, I'm sure Bill would remember. Um but I saw the placement letter at the Stanford Placement Office, or the recruiting letter at Stanford Placement Office, and I thought that looked really interesting because again, it kind of matched a little bit of the exposure I had to microprocessors. And uh Marla and I, my wife, uh had never been to Albuquerque, but we thought that was looked like might be kind of a cool place. So I sent a letter um way before email. Um and uh and got a response back. And at the time Rick Wyland was the the guy acting as the general manager there. Um did a phone interview with him um and uh with Paul, who was down there working at uh MIPS, and um they made me an offer um over the phone and via letter. No in-person contact at that point.
SPEAKER_01:Um nothing as I guess they couldn't afford to fly you back.
SPEAKER_05:Yeah, well, I it was you know, I'm not sure it even ever occurred to them or or me at the time. It was like kind of normal, just you know, okay, here's you know, here's the transcript, here's a couple of interviews, looks like he'd be a good fit, here's an offer, and um you know, I did interview with some other places. The one I remember most vividly was HP at the time. Uh kind of the obvious place because they're almost on campus at Stanford. And um I thought that was really an interesting place as well. But the opportunity to work on microprocessors, and specifically what Bill and Paul wanted was somebody to help write um uh an additional language Fortran compiler for them. And uh I had you know some educational experience with writing compilers, um, and I thought it was fun. So I thought that would be a really fun project to work on. So I accepted that offer and we moved to Albuquerque.
SPEAKER_01:Wow, okay. Actually, uh I I also worked in the developer division while I was at Microsoft and uh Microsoft Fortran along with uh Visual C reported to me. Wow, okay. There you go. There might have been some code that was still there from what you had uh after. This was yeah, this was in uh 1992.
SPEAKER_05:Yeah, I'm sure. Well, it evolved a lot since then because yeah, what you know, the the version I wrote was Fortran 80, right? So it was for 8080, 8-bit processors, 8080 Z80 processors. Um so you know, by the time you saw it in the 90s, it it had evolved to 16-bit versions and so on and so forth. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_01:So um did you um have any inkling at that time where Microsoft would you know head towards and what it would become, that it could be the center of the uh the my the uh microprocessor universe?
SPEAKER_05:Well, uh you know, that's always an interesting question. So, I mean, the the truthful answer in a very general way is no, of course not. But that being said, we did all of us sort of occasionally have these discussions about okay, how big can this get? You know, the the whole notion of a software company at that time was a little bit unique. Um you know, because everybody who was doing leading edge uh things in the computing area was doing it with a hardware focus. And the software obviously was very important, but it was only important as an add-on to the hardware. So, you know, whether you were HP or IBM or DEC or you know, then NCR and other people, it was your your business model was to sell hardware. And the reason you had a software group inside the company writing operating systems and things like that was to be able to sell more hardware. And so this notion that you could create a software company independently of hardware was pretty unique, and that was, you know, obviously that you could attribute that to the vision that Paul and Bill had when they started the company. That you know, they they started along that path. But obviously, the other enabler for that was what Intel and Motorola and Xilog and those kinds of people were doing in the chip side, um, and actually starting to create some industry standards around processing technology. Um, because otherwise pretty much impossible to start a software company if everybody has their own unique instruction set.
SPEAKER_01:So at that time, um Microsoft was primarily a languages uh company with basic compiler Fortran.
SPEAKER_05:Started out entirely languages. The I mean what the what they started with was basic interpreters, and the first one of those was for the Altair, for the 8080, and then and the first customer was Mets. And then um other companies started making microcomputers based on other processor technology such as Motorola 6800s and um 6502s, you know, the Apple was the the early example of that, and um and then Xilog came along and other and so um you know they they were already working on versions of BASIC for those other instruction sets, other microprocessors. And uh Fortran was the first language other than BASIC, and then after that we did a COBOL compiler, which yeah these days it's like why would you do COBOL? But um but back then that was kind of an obvious that was the business language. Um then um and then you know Pascal and C and all those other things you ended up managing.
SPEAKER_01:So you were a general manager there uh when you joined. Uh what was uh what what was the products that reported to you?
SPEAKER_05:So um yeah, slight correction to that. When I joined, I was Fortran product manager.
SPEAKER_01:Okay, okay.
SPEAKER_05:Specifically focused on Fortran. I there was one other guy working on it with me, um the huge team. And it took us I'm gonna say six, eight months to get the first version released, somewhere in that kind of time frame. And um and then Rick Wyland, who was the general manager, then left um shortly after that, you know, sort of after I'd been there around a year or so. And um somebody needed to sort of pick up at the time, you know, keep in mind we were, you know, six, eight, all the way up to maybe a dozen people in Albuquerque. So very small number of people, but somebody had to at least pay a little bit of attention to things like you know, the office management and and the accounting and you know, hiring and HR kinds of issues and things like that. So so I picked that picked that up and took on the general manager role.
SPEAKER_01:Got it. So did you uh have a chance to uh work closely with uh Bill and Paul? Uh were they still writing code?
SPEAKER_05:Of course they were, yeah. Um yeah, and of course we worked closely. Uh it was a family, it was a a very close-knit team. So um, you know, we spent you know, long days together, um, we spent long evenings together. Um it wasn't too unusual to come in in the morning and find that Bill, especially, and sometimes Paul, had had stayed there all night. Um and um and then, you know, when we wanted to relax a little bit, a lot of times we'd just get together at um, you know, Marl and I actually had a house, so we had a little more space. So a lot of times it was us, but but you know, or one of the apartments that one of those guys had. Um and you know, listen to Paul play his guitar and maybe play chess a little bit and just you know blow off steam.
SPEAKER_01:And what was uh Bill like working with? Uh was he uh still uh was he pretty intense uh as he was in the early days of Microsoft?
SPEAKER_05:Uh yeah, I assume I assume you got to have some of that experience as well. But um yes, Bill is very focused, very intense. Um and as anybody who's ever worked closely with him would tell you, very smart. Um so um he he can be very challenging, but he also has this kind of unique ability, even when he's being really challenging, he has this unique ability to listen to logic. Um and so um you have to be really focused and really well prepared, but you can change his mind. Um if if if you have the appropriate facts. Got it, got it.
SPEAKER_01:All right, over to you, Gary.
SPEAKER_02:Hi, uh, so this is very special for me. Uh I met Steve right when I moved to Seattle many, many decades ago now, it seems like it. Thanks to a common friend who passed away very young, uh young uh Keith, Keith Genstein, and uh Steve had uh by then uh uh spun up water services for a few years, and uh I was very fortunate uh to have met Steve and uh for Keith and uh Tom who also passed away uh to convince me that I should go work for Steve. So uh I've enjoyed it. I still uh talked to Steve a lot, learned a lot. Uh Steve, there have been many stories you've shared in many of our travels, but sort of uh uh move back a little bit to the days in Albuquerque and uh the decision to move out of there to somewhere else. I mean you could have moved to Silicon Valley versus versus uh state of Washington, other than Bill and Paul having grown up where but there should have been considerations of hiring talent, right? There was not the kind of talent uh here in quantities compared to Silicon Valley. What was the what was the driving factor?
SPEAKER_05:Actually, talent at the end was sort of the driving factor, however, in a slightly different way. Um so yeah, Bill and Paul um originally were from here, and coincidentally I had grown up in Seattle as well, so it was kind of attractive to me. But really, we looked very hard at um Silicon Valley as well as New York area, the East Coast, because that's where our the the two largest sets of customers were uh at the time. And that was sort of the obvious places. And and Silicon Valley with with all the talent and the the universities and you know the east coast has some of that too. Um but the other side of the talent discussion that actually um turned out to be what drove the decision to Seattle was Silicon Valley, even in 1978, uh which was the time we were making this decision, was very competitive. So yeah, lots of talent, lots of graduates, lots of universities, but also lots of companies and a reputation that people changed jobs a lot. Uh and there was a lot of you know cherry picking of talent between the the companies down there. And so uh and you ended up also paying more for talent because even back then the cost of living was higher. So the trade off was you know, there's a good set of uh around University of Washington in particular. There's there's a great education um atmosphere here, you This area, uh, and at least to start growing. And Boeing was here, so there's lots of engineers around Boeing. And so the the feeling was okay, we could probably we might have to hire talent and move them in from Silicon Valley, but the advantage is probably going to be that once we get them as part of Microsoft, we're less likely to lose them, um, or they might stay longer. Um, and so it might be better, easier to retain talent. Turned out to absolutely be true. Um, you could always sort of argue both sides about whether we could have more easily hired more talented people in Silicon Valley, but we always seemed to be able to find good people and convince them that Seattle was a great place to live. And uh once we got them here, um then uh they tended to hang around.
SPEAKER_02:So uh the decision is made that you you'll I mean the Paul and Bill are familiar, so they could easily pick where they want to move in the state of Washington. Um give a little bit of the story about the picture. How how did that come about? Looks like it was almost taken right when you're getting out of Albuquerque.
SPEAKER_05:Almost was. It actually almost was. So Bob Greenberg, um uh one of the key engineers who had been there for a while at the time, um got a I think he saw a coupon or got a coupon in the mail. Uh it was one of these spur-of-the-moment things where we'd already made the decision we were gonna move to Seattle. Um most people were totally on board with that. There were a few people who were still, you know, a little hesitant about it. Um we knew we were gonna lose Miriam, who was the office manager there, because she lived there with her husband and she wasn't gonna move, but everybody else was planning to move. And um and then, you know, Bob came in one day and said, Hey, look at this, why don't we go take a group company picture before we move from Albuquerque, just so that we have it. Um and so we did that, and it turned out that it it ended up being planned on a day where um there was a snow ice storm, which doesn't happen that often in Albuquerque, but it does happen occasionally, and so travel was a little bit difficult. Miriam didn't make it into the picture, that's why she didn't. Um, but the rest of us all managed to make it up there and and got our picture taken, and then um we got we got Bill to agree to pay for making prints for all of us, so we all got a picture.
SPEAKER_02:Even then had to negotiate expense reports. Uh so you worked uh very closely with Paul post-Microsoft too, right? Uh and they it's been well documented. Uh he was extremely different kind of a uh human being, right? As in as in the manager of a Microsoft or sorry, co-founder of Microsoft. Uh what was your um uh recollection in Albuquerque and working with him there versus his other startups that you did with him?
SPEAKER_05:Well, Paul was Paul. Uh you know, the you're right. Um Bill and Paul, very in some ways, very different personalities, but obviously a really good match for each other, uh very complimentary. Um what they had in common was this incredible curiosity and ability to absorb information. Um they both you know, and Bill still does, I know, just reads like crazy um and researches things. Um Paul tended to to have a much more diverse set of things that he would dive into and research, like for example, he was really into Shakespeare and uh classical music, um music in general, you know, he played the guitar. Um and um and a lot of liberal arts kinds of things, which uh you know he got from his parents, especially his mom, I think. Um but but still when he got into something it was okay, I want to know as much as the world can tell me about this particular topic. Um, and he would totally dive in and be focused on it. Um the one of the personality differences that was so complimentary is that Bill would be a bit more patient about things like you know, getting products out the door and making commitments and so on and so forth. Um so um so Bill would create a model in his head and and make decisions, and yes, if presented with contradictory facts, he'd certainly change his mind and change direction. But um but he'd want to just go. Let's dive in, let's try something, let's get it out there, and then we can adjust. Um Paul was much more inclined to say, yeah, we can do this better. Let's spend a couple more months, let's do a little more research, and yeah, this is cool, we're going the right direction, but you know, if we make this adjustment, um, you know, do a little more research, we can make it better. Um, and so let's make it better before we get it out there. Um so it in that way they they actually were very different.
SPEAKER_02:In in some ways, when you sort of look back at say Star Wave or Asymmetrics or any of these other startups since then, right? That he did post Microsoft. Um they're a little ahead of I mean, Star Wave, for example, for example, would be the modern day uh streaming uh content, right? I mean, this is you're talking the 80s when somebody imagined you could stream content across uh PCs, then modem itself was questionable.
SPEAKER_05:Well, I mean, yes, of course they were ahead. Um and the the interesting thing about Star Wave is we you know what everybody remembers because it's what it turned into and was very successful at was you know some of the first online um media, uh you know, and ESPN and and uh but even before that, uh the original concept and where the name came from was we were gonna do it from direct broadcast satellites. And okay, this is the 80s. You know, there's no low earth orbit satellites going on, right? These are all geostationary. This is a big challenge, right? That you can actually do uh data um or data streaming kinds of services via satellite. Um big vision, you can cover the world that way. Um and then um um the by the time Star Wave actually got to market and then very quickly evolved on the in the streaming services, the the satellite part of it sort of fell by the wayside. But um but that was the original vision. So yes, they were early. Um that's kind of always the challenge with successful startups, right? Is um if you're gonna be successful, you have to be early to some extent, because if you wait too long, then the competition's already there. But startups, um almost at least everyone I've been involved in is uh to some degree always been early. And then the challenge is okay, how do we adapt and survive long enough for the market to catch up with so applying that back to Microsoft, right?
SPEAKER_02:So uh the two of them decide they're gonna do this company, do this startup. At that time, as you uh articulated, there was no independent software company. There were there were uh hardware companies that bundled software. And uh so the the reason that they thought that could work at that time was what were in Albuquerque, especially, because there was no clear path at the reason that they thought it would work was actually the reason that it turned out it did work, which was it it's the the whole vision, the ability to look at the first microprocessors that were coming out, and to then say, you know, have the vision to be able to say that's gonna create a market that standardizes around processors and instruction sets.
SPEAKER_05:And then the software becomes unique, uh becomes the unique thing that you can sell these things with um as much as the hardware. So the you know, hardware's obviously always important, but um it is in a lot of cases these days has sort of become more of the commodity. Um and the the unique part of it that makes you decide whether to buy one PC versus another is the the software that comes with it. Um it was all being driven by what ended up being called Moore's Law. So, you know, the the these standard microprocessors were coming out and they're evolving at a very fast pace. And back then, uh Bill Paul first, and then Bill had the the vision uh to be able to look at that and say, you know, five or ten years, this is gonna be enormous.
SPEAKER_02:So now that sort of makes me kind of think of the choice you made. You were married, as you mentioned, to Marla at Stanford. So you could have made a fairly safe back. There was Hewlett Packard locally next door to you in Palo Alto. Apple was I think uh early stages, but there were other players, right?
SPEAKER_05:IBM Apple wasn't quite there yet, but yeah.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah. But local. Yeah. And you could have gone to Intel, I mean we could have gone to many places at that point, right? Uh you picked an unknown company in a city you have never visited to move after Stanford with your wife. So that seems like a was way early uh comparatively. Uh maybe that's the power of being young, right? Because what's what's the big deal that could happen, kind of a thing. But what stood out in that uh in that post that you saw in Stanford that made you pick them over what by then were established next door companies like AHB?
SPEAKER_05:Well, I think the I mean the the the first one was the point you made that you know you're young, you don't know any better, and you don't have much to lose, right? So um, but uh you know the second question you asked, the answer is I think that it was the opportunity to be a a key contributor, um, you know, maybe even leader on uh a new product or a new technology being developed, as opposed to just being, okay, I'm now a junior member of a team of 50 people working on something. Even though that the something that HP was working on was pretty cool. The opportunity to be um an influencer in where that technology goes and how it gets developed, I that was really attractive. And then, you know, in terms of personality, we were both pretty adventurous, and you know, it was interesting to to see other places and experience other places. So sure, why not?
SPEAKER_02:What what'd your parents think about this? They said you're just I mean, they thought, okay, after Stanford, this is you know, this is the ticket, right?
SPEAKER_05:That's an interesting question. I I you know, I'm not sure I ever directly asked them that question, but um it you know, they were always very supportive. Um that's how I ended up at Case and then Stanford. Um, they were very supportive of of what I thought I wanted to do and what my career choices were and education choices, and that that obviously helped a lot. Um, you know, my dad was a professor, uh medical school professor, but uh a professor, and so he was you know pretty familiar with with that environment. Um and you know, so he was very encouraging about all this.
SPEAKER_02:So um you uh also from then on made a huge bet going with Macaw at that time was uh was an analog wireless carrier, right? But they were starting up a digital business. How much of your this early bet that you made in Albuquerque uh with with uh with Microsoft also made you think, yeah, uh early 90s, the only path forward for wireless is going to be uh digital data uh infrastructure?
SPEAKER_05:Well, I don't uh uh I I think honestly, I didn't I don't think at that point I said the only path forward. However, Mike Macaw was a pioneer and they had they had the first sort of packet data network um that they had already rolled out before um text and SMS became standards. And um and then Tom Allberg, you know, very important um for it sounds like both you and I. Um and um you know had this group that was focused on wireless data. And again, this was 1990, so or '92, this is very early. Um and the group was well funded inside Macaw. Macaw was a very entrepreneurial-oriented company, even though by then it was already reasonably big. Um and um it was an opportunity to to to then say, okay, let's see what where where this new stuff goes. Um you know, wireless is new, uh, this whole concept of as Craig McCall used to describe it, um, the the phone being a personal device instead of a location-based device. Um another very unique transition point. Um and then the ability to extend that into handheld devices that could communicate wirelessly, that seemed like just a really fun thing to work on and a big market opportunity.
SPEAKER_02:But you still brought this uh fundamental ethos of software to the wireless startups you did. It's not like you went and built a POM device, which you could have built, which was the popular one, or another paging, better paging device. You said uh with with uh uh in your journey on wireless startups, software was the most important part, and device was you know there to uh be a delivering uh agent, so to speak. Was that ethos uh well rooted because you you started Microsoft as opposed to if you had gone to HP, would you have become a hardware engineer?
SPEAKER_05:Yeah, that's a good question. I mean, obviously it the the whole um transition, it made it an easy transition. Uh you know, the whole experience at Microsoft, uh, and with then asymmetrics and Star Wave being focused around software and content or software and data. Um and so it was by then it was just pretty intuitive for me to say, oh, okay, this this is cool that Macaw has this um wireless infrastructure and the ability to send data around it. Now let's figure out what the value add is on top of that. Um the the software, but it was really more about content than software. Um, the software that that enables content. Um and so it was just a natural extension of where I had come from.
SPEAKER_02:But but do you think that uh, you know, it's been well recorded, right? AT ⁇ T chose not to acquire those assets or or spin it out for the for a lack of a better word. Well, they had the same exposure. I mean, my by the 90s, Microsoft was a was a force. Uh Chirich knows well. I mean, at that time he shepherded the hotmail acquisition. So it wasn't uh unknown. What what do you think that they missed that Microsoft by 20 years into their existence had got it by that software was the driver?
SPEAKER_05:They just came at it from a totally different perspective. AT ⁇ T was a carrier. Um they were uh uh they came at it from the regulated landline carrier business, um owned business, and that's what they understood. Um they had built a very large company around that. Um now that being said, they had a very innovative research lab uh in New Jersey that was doing a lot of fascinating stuff. But their core business was voice calls and let's do the best job we can about building on a network that enables uh telephone calling. Um and they recognized the transition to wireless and took advantage of that, and we were successful at it. Um but the reason that we spun wireless services out uh when they acquired Macaw was because the whole um data business, at least the content and software side of the data business, was pretty foreign to them. It was not something they were focused on.
SPEAKER_02:So, you know, you were there uh uh from the very beginning at Microsoft. So when you look at them celebrating 50 years now and still being extremely relevant, I mean they are the most relevant company on the planet at this point. They touch every human, they they're in everybody's lives and everything we do. Was uh something that they did then that uh that is so core to their DNA that they they reinvent on a regular basis to be relevant today? Uh is there something you can recall?
SPEAKER_05:That that's an interesting philosophical question. I mean, I I I had the opportunity a few weeks ago to to to go to an event that were um you know and say hi to a few of those folks like Steve Ballmer and um and I I think we'll get the opportunity this summer to try to get the remaining uh group members from that original picture back together. Um uh but i you know what Microsoft is so yes, of course, Microsoft had the the advantage uh of all that great early experience and making good decisions. Uh but it it's been 50 years uh and the company is huge. Uh you can't just base that on, okay, uh you know, initial decisions and culture and so on and so forth. They've done an incredible job through a number of CEOs, uh Saaty B. The current one of maintaining uh a good focus, great innovation. Um and yeah, like any big company, they have their challenges now and then, and you know, sometimes they make acquisitions that turn out to not be great, but most of what they do, um you know, they're they're able to course correct, um, and they're able to to recognize new opportunities and make the right investments. And um, they've just done an amazing job of that. Most companies at some point um fail because they failed strategically. And so far, Microsoft has made the right choices.
SPEAKER_02:So our audience, Steve, is a uh is a lot of entrepreneurs who want to be entrepreneurs, um folks who think they should be uh running startups. If uh what would the young Steve advise these people? What what uh advice you would give them? So it's like a it's like a young Steve is out there wanting to drive it, because you've done many startups.
SPEAKER_05:So the first thing which I you know I've I've tried to encourage people for a long time is don't be afraid to try it. Um you know especially if if you're kind of young and you know looking for opportunities. Um you just keep having to remind yourself what is there to lose? I can always go find something else. Um or I can start something else one way or another. Um try it. Um and and then the next things that that come along with that are you know pay attention to what wise people tell you uh or sick people who have been successful, try to pay attention to their advice, try to be really flexible because it's guaranteed that if you're gonna do a startup company, you're gonna change directions a few times. May not be 180 degree changes, but you're you're gonna discover things that are different than what you thought they were gonna be, and you're gonna have to adapt. Um so don't be afraid to adapt and change. And then the other thing is get as far as you can bootstrapped. You know, in other words, before you before you focus on, you know, let's go raise a million or ten million or a hundred million, whatever, dollars, let's let's see whether how far we can get by finding a few customers, getting some products or services out there, um, making these little adjustments as to what works and what doesn't, and then you know, proof we could be successful.
SPEAKER_02:Excellent. Steve, thank you. Uh I am fortunate to have met you and uh continue to uh enjoy talking to you. So thanks for that. And uh Sherish, uh back to you to wrap it up.
SPEAKER_01:All right. Uh great conversation, Steve. Uh really interesting to hear the uh the really old uh story of uh of Microsoft.
SPEAKER_05:Yeah, from a really old person, right?
SPEAKER_02:Yeah. You're not that old.
SPEAKER_01:Uh no, the uh I I I read uh uh Bill Gates' uh uh recent book about his journey uh all the way to uh Microsoft at Albuquerque and it's fascinating. Yeah, yeah, it's a fascinating book.
SPEAKER_05:Yeah, he sent me a copy of that. I thought he did a very good job with that book.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, his memory is remarkable. Um so uh you were very fortunate to have uh been involved with Microsoft at this at that stage and having the opportunity to work with a young Bill Gates in formation. Um so uh and then of course uh meeting you at Wireless Services Corp in 2001. Um you almost you almost uh decided to join Capis, we'll remember. Okay. But uh went off uh different paths. So thank you again and uh wish you all the best in your uh future endeavors.
SPEAKER_05:Okay, good to see you again, Sharesh. And see you there sometime, Gary.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, well, thank you. Thank you for listening to our podcast from Startup Big brought to you by Dyke Seattle. Assisting in production today are Isha Jen and Mini Varba. Please subscribe to our podcast and rate our podcast wherever you listen to them. Hope you enjoyed it.
