Angie Shockley mindfulangie@gmail.com
Dave Gold dave@davegold.com
Angie Shockley mindfulangie@gmail.com
Dave Gold dave@davegold.com
Hi everybody, welcome to Embrace the Journey podcast. I'm Angie and I'm here with my friend and colleague and partner in all spiritual things, Dave. Good to see you, Dave. How are you?
Speaker 2:I'm always interested to see how you're going to describe me and to describe our relationship.
Speaker 1:It's really hard to put into words.
Speaker 2:It's evolving and it's quite special. Anyway, I'm just really glad to see you. For those of you that are just listening, Angie has earrings on today because she's not shoveling chicken shit today or whatever it is she's going to be doing. I would encourage you to go on YouTube and see what she looks like when she's dolled up. It's worth a little watch.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's not a barn day for me today.
Speaker 2:I'm sorry if you've got to take chicken shit out, but I think it's a technical term. I think it's a term that you can actually leave in. It's a term of endearment in my world. But certainly there's a lot of endearment here. Anyway, it's good to be with you and it's good to be with our people.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, I was reached out to Dave. It's been a couple of weeks since we've recorded a podcast and we've had some really great guests and some really great stories to tell over the last I don't know couple of months few months since we stepped into this version of our podcast about embracing the journey that you're on and the transitions that are coming your way. So if you haven't listened to the other versions of this or the other episodes of this, take a listen. I think there's some wisdom worth paying attention to. And as I was thinking about what would be a good topic or a good guest for today's podcast, it struck me that I'm spending a lot of time and I would imagine, dave, you're doing the same giving support to families as the holidays are upon us, because it seems to be a pretty volatile time of the year for a lot of people, especially families that have kids with challenges, young adults with challenges, and the last iteration of our podcast, which was called Exceptional Parents Extraordinary Challenges, we talked a lot about families with young adults and children adolescents who are in treatment programs and what that looks like. And then, for our listeners who know me, I run young adult transitional living programs here in West Virginia and I know that it is quite a challenge for our families, the families of my young adults, if the young adults are going to be visiting them at the holidays and on the other hand, it is a challenge if they are not, because then it's the, the empty nest syndrome, of it's the holidays, so our family should be together, but as our kids become adults, they often can't be with us over those holidays, and so then how do we navigate all of that?
Speaker 1:That's just a couple points, I think, that are up for people right now and the level of stress that creates for families in the midst all of the general stress that comes up during the holiday season.
Speaker 1:It's the, the, all the hallmark movies and all the decorations and the beauty of the season and the gratitude of Thanksgiving and the gratitude around the Christmas or or Hanukkah or whatever holiday you're celebrating, it really doesn't matter. The time of the year of holidays seem to create stress for us. And another point that comes up for me a lot with folks that I'm working with is how they compare themselves to what they see on social media and then they feel like they're not doing enough or not living up to what they quote should be doing to create this magical experience for the family. So that's a lot of what's been floating around my head and in my world of coaching and helping people, and so I just thought it would be a good idea for Dave and I to share some of our experiences as parents and also as professionals in this field of how do we help people who are facing these various challenges. That was a lot to tee up there for you, dave. I just want to think where do I start?
Speaker 2:No, where do I continue First? Yeah, it's how, and how do we help ourselves? I think that's the. I know it's intrinsic, and everything you're saying is how do we handle this ourselves? And there's a couple of things I'll respond to that I was thinking about. What we were talking about in the context when we were talking about is in terms of challenging children, and then what does it mean in terms of embracing life's transitions? And a couple of things. The first is that we are going to be triggered by the holidays.
Speaker 1:Oh yeah.
Speaker 2:And triggered normally is oh my God, I want to ring somebody's next. But the trigger is often a deep nostalgia, just a deep memory, a deep love, a deep longing. All these things are coming. So one is just such a pregnant time emotionally pregnant time for us and one, so you recognize that's just that's what I'm swimming in. And so just having that check to factor that in to whatever your emotional experience is, it is probably heightened, and sometimes it's just that you're stressed out because you're working in, sometimes because there's a memory, and then also recognizing that those that you're with are being triggered too.
Speaker 2:So you've got a very, a lot of hair triggers and a lot of and a lot of fingers that are very close to the buttons are going to trip those triggers. So one is and I don't know whether that's giving yourself grace or giving you just recognizing that what you're experiencing now is heightened, it's magnified, it's raw, and that, whatever your experience is and whatever it is that you're dealing with right now, that it is, it's not just, it's just not another time of year, this isn't just in our heads.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, it's real, it's very real and I do think that giving ourselves grace is really important. Also think self care is super important during this time of the year knowing when it's time to spend some time on your own or in the woods or wherever you go, for your sanctuary, whatever that is at the gym for Dave, I know that's one of his sanctuaries is going to the gym. For some people maybe it's truly a sanctuary of a building that is a church or a place of spiritual worship for people. That can be a very grounding force. Especially this time of the year can also be volatile. It can also be one of those button pushing experiences for people.
Speaker 1:But I think self care is really important. So if that means going to bed earlier, if that means saying no to some of the social invitations that come your way and understanding that one of my favorite quotes what someone else thinks of me as none of my business. So if I say no to an invitation, there's always going to be that fear, a little bit of that fear that comes up. But what are people going to think? Or what's that person going to think of me if I say no to this? And then the next layer of that is you want to explain it ad nauseam as to why you're not going to attend this event or be at this person's house or whatever.
Speaker 1:And I think just having grace for yourself and doing some self care and understanding what's going to be healthy for you as an individual is really super important. And then, if we take that same concept and place that on parents, I think that is really important, whether you have a toddler who is going to be completely out of their routine for a couple of weeks which I'll talk about in a minute or you have a young adult who is not going to be a part of your celebration, and that deep sadness that you mentioned, dave, those moments of nostalgia, those moments of memory, of really wanting to have those moments back with your child but they're an adult at this point and whether they're neurotypical or non neurotypical which my favorite word now is neuro spicy which I can't claim- I heard it, but I love that.
Speaker 1:So we have neuro spicy kids. Whatever is keeping the family core, the core family, from being together for the holidays? Those moments of nostalgia come up and allowing yourself the grace to feel that and to know that it's okay, and don't get yourself into a situation where you're so overly exhausted that you can't even manage your own emotions, because that is the number one thing to do to help everybody else.
Speaker 2:And there's something that you said I was thinking about how do we take this triggering or just this whole, this kind of emotional soup that we're in as relating to transitions, life transitions to, since that's our theme, and I realized that one of the things that happens is we there's the I think we said. This podcast at Ram Dass says you want to find out how enlightened you are, just go for the holidays. So you're going to go back and you're going to fall back in old patterns and it's easy to think, oh my God, I haven't changed, because the emotion it's almost like you're walking into a room that is perfectly furnished, that they just put the sign and you open it up and you walk back in and you're all those things At the same time. You have and you alerted this you have evolved. You may not want to do the same things you've done before. So I think there's a couple things that come up with.
Speaker 2:That is when I look at the holidays in terms of transitions, and especially the triggering piece is one to not be not think, oh my God, I'm just the same schmuck I've been forever and I think I've gone through the year and I've done all these things, but I'm going home and my mother says this, or my brother says this or whatever it is, and I'm ready to ring their necks and I'm still the same little frightened kid I was before. And the fact that there's something I know we talked about before, that my father said that a lot of times what happens is that the cords have actually been cut, but the strings still flow in the breeze and so you think?
Speaker 2:oh my God, they're still connected. So there's a way that a lot of this is just old and you, more than anyone, could speak to this with great expertise. There's old energetic patterns that are, even though you've evolved past it, the energetic patterns almost. I don't know if that makes sense and maybe you can put that into other terms. And the other one is just recognize that your preferences are probably changed. And I thought about this over Thanksgiving. My, my great Thanksgiving was, if I wanted 20, I wanted everybody, I want mayhem, I wanted generations, I wanted this I want, I wanted to be all of that and I would just, coming from a increasingly shrinking families, it's, my siblings die off, but it's, and whatever is it's, I just. And then at this holiday I realized we did a big, my, my stepdaughter did a big friends giving thing. We had house for people and I was fine, for Thanksgiving was just Julie, me and Isabella.
Speaker 1:It was perfect.
Speaker 2:I went back to think oh no, I know Thanksgiving has to be this, because that's what I want is a posting you know what?
Speaker 2:I can't think of a better. We cooked all day, we had a beautiful evening. So just so, I guess the two points I was making is one to just because you go back to old energetic patterns doesn't mean that that you haven't evolved, change whatever. It is that you measure your own development and to feel good about yourself and recognizing your victories. And then the other piece is to recognize that you have your, if your preferences have changed, acknowledge that you might be having the same emotional experience, but how you respond, what feeds your soul in that moment?
Speaker 1:And so I think that's a great point.
Speaker 1:And, yes, I've been a part of a very large family gathering with so many people that there's no way you can talk to everybody and in the time allotted and it's chaos and everybody's eating everywhere. There's something absolutely beautiful and wonderful about that, and there's something equally wonderful about having just a core group of your family members who really take that time to be with one another and the story still flow and the fun is still there. And there's still a little bit of chaos here and there, but it's a very settled time when it's in my family it's. It's a pretty precious time right now, with my parents and then my especially my daughter and grandson, to be able to have all of them, all of us, in a house together. My son was unable to be with us. One of my step sons was able to join us this year but to have great grandparents, parents and child all in one group together and I realized that that it every one of those gatherings could possibly be the last one, and so just being present in that and not being in the space of worrying about it or getting caught up in what, what's going to happen after this, or or even thinking back to 20 years ago or whatever. It's really that. It's the gift of presence. It's really being present in the moment that you're in and just knowing, like you said, that this moment is perfect and I'm so grateful for this moment. And so that's what happened for us at Thanksgiving this year and I was really grateful for that.
Speaker 1:And I think, coming into the Christmas season, I think it's even more volatile than the Thanksgiving season and I think some of that is it's a mixture of things, but I think some of it is the commercialism and parents being stressed about purchasing gifts for their kids and what to get and what not to get. The kids want everything that everybody else has. And again we come back to social media and comparing ourselves with others and write down to our Christmas tree or our decorations or what is this? Does our house look as good as the house next door across the street? And it's so easy to get caught up in that comparison thing.
Speaker 1:And I think that's one of the things that I've been talking with people about is really understanding that there's absolutely nothing to be gained from comparing. Comparison is the thief of joy, because there's no way for you to be 100% present in your own experience, if you're putting your energy into comparing yourself, your experience, your family, your house or whatever to anyone else, regardless of who that person is. And so I've really been coaching people to stay very present in their experiences and to prioritize the things that truly are important and focus on those things. And you can't prioritize 20 things. You can prioritize five things and you can move through your holiday season focusing on those things. And I think you talked about the energetic patterns. Yes, we do. We have those energetic patterns that we walk, that we exist in from our childhood, from long before that, but especially around this time of the year, from our childhood we create these patterns and we tend to repeat them. We call them traditions.
Speaker 2:Right.
Speaker 1:Right in our society.
Speaker 1:We call them traditions, but their energetic patterns that we learn from our ancestors and our family members, and then we tend to repeat them, and if those patterns change, we feel a little bit like we're floating through the holiday season without a net, because we're not sure who to be or what to be, and so that's one of the reasons that we can open that door and walk right back into those old patterns, whether it's I'm going to butt heads with my dad on politics, or I don't agree with my brother, and so we can't sit at the same, on the same side of the table, whatever it is and those are not mine, I'm just making those up or, in case either one of those family members is listening to this, but and I'm sure that other people are understanding that point like when you walk back into that, it can be really hard.
Speaker 1:And then what happens? We start to feel things like resentment, emotions that are low frequency resentment, anger, fear, comparison, all of those things in it it's the frequency of the whole experience then can be lowered, and so the way to keep that frequency high because we know that if we're going to attract whatever frequency we're emitting, and so the way to keep the frequency in the higher realms, where we can have those good, positive experiences, is always to go to gratitude, to be grateful for the, to be grateful and to be really, truly present. And when we're really grateful for something, we can't be anything but present in the moment. And so, for president, the moment and we can have the experience without judgment and without falling into some of those other emotions and yep, sometimes you just have to be the bigger person and not engage in those difficult conversations.
Speaker 2:And there's something you said back about comparison being the thief of joy or whatever. What was the phrase again I might want to steal?
Speaker 1:that. That was it Comparison is the thief of joy, good job.
Speaker 2:Thank you very much. I'm paying attention. There's a adjunct to that or a quarrel or to that which is the expectations of others and we've talked about that a bit and that is. I was with a client today and basically this is in a situation where it's not tenable and I said, well, why are you doing it? If I don't do it, people are going to think I'm the meanest daughter in the world and there's no freedom. There's no freedom in any of that, and so, again, this is incredibly complex or subtle, because there are certain family expectations that come with this.
Speaker 2:But there's some that are past their expiration date, and so there's a couple of points, and one is just to allow yourself to consider that just because we have done this every year, and it's miserable every year and everyone goes home and hates each other, but damn it, we're going to do this every year. This is the one we're going to do.
Speaker 1:It's our tradition.
Speaker 2:It is our tradition and I think I realized, boy, there's so much evil done in the name of tradition. That's not evil, at least unhappiness that is propagated or perpetuated because of tradition.
Speaker 2:So one is, just allow yourself to question and do it without, because what happens is everything will rush in. I noticed I'm sure you notice, with the people you call it as soon as you even begin to think about, there's like a whoosh of oh my God, if I do that, the one and I don't know, it's more of a. It's a longer discussion process than maybe here, but there's a way of creating a space where you can just run the thought experiment of okay, wait a minute, is this, has this reaches expiration date? And that is a. That is an inquiry of the heart, and one of the things I know we do it in with different terms, but we do it, we both do it, and I was following through with my client today is that I just say, coach, how does the decision make you feel? We've talked about this?
Speaker 2:One of my father's advice Not what are you, what are people going to think, what am I going to think of? But close your eyes, wait a minute, settle into your heart this is a good exercise really. So in your heart and just imagine not go, not inviting that one incendiary uncle who's got nowhere else to go. So you bring him and he wrecks everything. Imagine what it's like that you stay home. Imagine whatever that. Imagine that you know what. We're going to limit ourselves to three gifts. You know what? Who knows what?
Speaker 2:the hell whatever, yeah, but just, and then imagine the opposite, imagine the different scenarios and just start, and so one you know, I like to summarize. We used to say in sales and in law, tell him what you're going to tell him, and then tell him what you told him, and I can't help myself.
Speaker 2:But one is just to allow yourself to consider that, that these things that preach their expert, they're going to reach their expiration date because people had done like these yeah One, there there's an expiration date on everything, but then allow yourself and then give yourself a space to sit and feel through that and then obviously then once you reach the decision, that's a different kind of a story, but there's so much freedom and this is something I found through we talked about this a lot in the previous iteration of this podcast of traditions that I had with my daughter that I just thought were that I can't do anymore and I took me a couple years of trying to jam that in there.
Speaker 2:We're going to have the same thing, whether you're going to recognize that whoa, because you might think it's not only freeing to you, you're freeing everybody. But not everybody has the self reflection or the space or the benefit of hearing this podcast or whatever it is, to be able to do that. And I've just been surprised how often what I've made, what I thought were hard, and maybe from outsiders expectations, selfish decisions Everyone just breathes a sigh.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yes, so true, somebody's got to go out on the limb, but then it takes the pressure off for everybody.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and one thing we talk about, I want to talk about the lib is the greatest gift you can give is we talk about its presence, and I would, and a corollary or maybe as part of that, is your own happiness, your own joy. Yeah, and gutting through with something because you've gutted through it for many years, versus being able to actually share because your heart's light Mm, hmm, yeah. Light heart. It's funny how the currency changes and you start to value the lightness of your heart more than not hurting somebody's feelings.
Speaker 1:Yeah, or worrying about what somebody's thinking of you, like that also falls into that category of it. It's. It is so important to know your own limitations and boundaries. How often do you and I talk about boundaries with everybody, and a lot of folks really have a hard time seeing things like this as a boundary, because I think that word gets over you sometimes and I actually think that it's vilified in some conversations, but it's a healthy, happy word and it is what makes your heart light and it is what allows you to step into an experience with gratitude and full presence, because you know that you're honoring your own boundaries. You're honoring your own needs and maybe the need for the greater need of the group, because there's always somebody in a family who's the lead person, who either makes things happen or doesn't, and if you're that person, then you probably have pretty good boundaries with yourself and then you can then share those boundaries with the family or the bigger group.
Speaker 1:So, yeah, I have having a light heart and surrendering to what is, rather than what used to be, or what you think or, like you said, forcing things, just because that's the way we've always done it.
Speaker 1:It's the tradition of the family and if we don't, then we're not the family. Those things are not real and yeah, it's the thief of joy. Focusing on joy what is it that brings you joy, what is it that brings your family joy? And honoring what brings somebody else joy, because I know, with you and your daughter, you really have honored what brings her joy. It may not be what you want for her, it may not be what brings you joy in your life, and especially this time of the year, but you honor that as her journey, as her journey, being perfect in her choice and so honoring that is such a freedom and I think that's one of the things that gives you the lightheartedness to be able to be in your core family and also understanding your extended family is there and loved and loves you. It's just, it's in a different box, it's in a different presentation.
Speaker 2:And it's interesting you mentioned. I'll share a real story from this Thanksgiving because, as Angie knows, we realized my daughter needed an intervention and our daughter went to wilderness camp in early November of 2017 and is out in the woods and all that stuff. And you're sitting here in your nice warm house and you're thinking about your poor little kid out there for a reason which isn't exactly true. But anyway, that first Thanksgiving when she was away was just so incredibly painful and I thought I'm never going to spend another Thanksgiving without her. And then, here we come up to this Thanksgiving and we're just playing this little gathering. And because Ashley knows it is dads and so it's just the three of us and it's called it, and because I don't often get I don't get this alone time as much with Isabella as I used to. Her lives get, her life gets more full, but anyway, I want to.
Speaker 2:I really the thought of my daughter not being here was so painful to me and I agonized with it. It's a little bit traumatic, but it was. It hurt and I talked with Julie. I realized there was no way. If I brought her in, it was going to be a mess. I have an idea of all we're all going to get, to get the idea, the expected. We're all going to get together and this will be the reproach among we've been looking for and it'll be so great. And then I realized no, it's just going to be a mess. And I really sat with it until I could discern what was my just the longing that I had. It's old, so I'm talking from it, not about it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, what is?
Speaker 2:my old stuff, that I have my thing in here and this image I have of my daughter being by herself and Thanksgiving, instead of having the warmth of my house and all that stuff and really going through that. But then when I got the other side of it, I realized I actually want to see my. I actually want to see my daughter. That was legitimate. So there was a real impulse to see her. Thanksgiving was going to work and I said, hey, it's not going to be tonight, but I'm going to, we're going to, we're going to just spend some time together. And yeah, it seems like a simple solution but it actually honored everything that I needed. I knew what was authentically mine to do, what I really felt, what was being called for, maybe what she needed or the most benefit could feed her soul without having to jam it into an old nostalgic idea that would have been, I'd still be.
Speaker 1:we all still be paying the price for and I yes, thanks for sharing that, because I think a lot of parents really do struggle with that. And, yes, we want to romanticize the idea of that big family gathering and that everybody's going to be happy to see everybody and and we're going to be in this space we've always dreamed of as a parent, and that's very seldom a reality. The reality is more what you just talked about it's so much chaos and the thief of the joy. There's no joy in the gathering because there's so much chaos in the gathering and hurt feelings and anxiety and all the things, and so it's really it's impossible to truly be present with it, because then you, as the parents, you're trying to control everything, everybody, everything, all the outcomes, make sure everything's okay and it's not, and you're trying to make it that way, and so then that, just that kicks your own anxiety up, and so then, boom, what do we have? Pretty much, like you said, you'd still be dealing with the fallout of something like that, whereas you can make the choice to go see your daughter in a different environment where you can actually be present, she can be present with you, you can have that respectful relationship that I know you guys have, and it'll be fine, and it doesn't have to be everybody and not everybody has to be happy about it, and that's okay. That's really okay.
Speaker 1:I think that's probably a concept that families struggle with, that I work with, that it's pretty consistent is that everybody has to be in agreement and everybody has to be happy about something, and they don't. Family members, we're still humans and we all have our own opinions and we all have our own feelings. We all have our own threshold of pain and anxiety and all those things, and so we don't. And so another thing I'll say to people is keep the gatherings relatively short. It doesn't have to be a five hour gathering. It can be an hour and a half gathering, right.
Speaker 2:And it's another expiration date.
Speaker 1:Yeah, there's an expiration date on a fun family gathering. How long is long enough? And some people in my family, some people come in for 30 minutes and out and it's okay. And I have to say, one of the greatest gifts that my mom has ever given me and has modeled for me my whole life is just acceptance and non-judge non-judgements. She's we gather at my mom's house. She is the matriarch of our family and so we still gather there. My parents are 76 years old and they're in great health and great shape, but they're still they're tired, and so we have modified the amount of people and things that we do at my mom's house, but for my whole life it didn't matter if we had 20 people or five people, or I have two ex-husbands, so my kids were often different places.
Speaker 2:I just wanted to know she stuck the landing on the third one.
Speaker 1:I did. I did stick the landing on. We're coming up on 20 years together, so that's great.
Speaker 2:I just want to know they have this beauty. Just, we're both blessed and I don't want to be just such a beautiful. You have such a beautiful. You too have such a beautiful symbiotic relationship and I, I just love when, anytime like I'm not around much cause your husbands as busy as you are, one of you is always kind of shoving the chicken shit. But anyway, I just want to speak to the fact that you, when you say two husbands, that I think you're a serial, serial divorcee, divorcee.
Speaker 1:Yeah, my mom. One another thing my mom always told me before the current husband she's you're really not very good at this marriage thing, but you're very good at the divorce thing.
Speaker 2:And and it's because of what I'm talking about that she modeled.
Speaker 1:for me was just that acceptance piece. So, yeah, there were a lot of Christmas mornings or Christmas Eve's where my kids weren't with me, or at least one of them wasn't, and it was very sad for me. Wow, I'm sorry, but it was. I learned early on in their lives that a celebration doesn't have to be on a certain day. Whether it's a birthday or a holiday, it doesn't matter. It's the. It's about being together with the person that you love and in a safe and and right, positive space. Right, and I would never, ever in a million years, ask either one of my children to choose me over their father. I was never going to do that. That was just not. I made that commitment early on and I never did it.
Speaker 1:And it it was a gift. It was hard on me sometimes. Sometimes I had to be the one to get my feelings hurt or to be sad, but I know that it was a gift to my kids, because now my kids are adults and they can have that conversation back with me. And then I was the same way with my husband's sons. I never, ever tried to put in place any kind of guilt or demands on them on any holiday. You guys go where and when works best for you, and my husband followed along with that, and I think that's been a gift for them as well. So that's my advice for families, that are, if you have a mixed family, if you have a divorce situation in your family, if you yeah, blended family.
Speaker 1:Thank you, better word. If you're facing that situation in a whether you want to call it taking the high road or being the bigger person, or whether you it's just the choice that you make in that moment to do what's in the best interest of your child, don't feel like you have to have everything a certain way at a certain time because, ultimately, the only person you're stressing is your kid, and it doesn't matter if your kids five or 25, you're creating stress for them, which then, in turn, creates stress for you as a parent, and that's something that that I'm dealing with and I've talked a little bit about.
Speaker 1:Our saddles and smiles program up here, working with kids and horses and that's something I've been reaching out with parents in that organization as the holidays are coming up, because talk about some neuro spicy kids you got some neuro spicy kids.
Speaker 2:Oh yeah, you got some jalapenos in there.
Speaker 1:We got some jalapenos in there. They're awesome. I love all of them. But routine and consistency is so important for a neuro diverse population, especially children. It is equally important for neurotypical kids, and they just respond to changes in a different way, and so what happens at the end of the year is schools out for a week or two weeks and parents are still working for part of that time, and so you got to find a babysitter or go to daycare or whatever, or some kids old enough to be home alone for that time, but they're out of their routine, and so one of the things that I see happen for families is that kids are really acting out, they're really having a tough time over the holiday season, and so their behaviors become what parents would categorize as bad or hard behaviors right, and as a parent and a grandparent, I totally get it. It's difficult to try to manage that, but I think it's really important for families, for parents, to understand.
Speaker 1:When your child is acting out like that, the first thing to ask yourself is what does that child need? Because that child's acting out, because there's a need there of some sort right? So if they're neuro spicy and they've got some challenges and you're dealing with those challenges year round, and it's difficult. Dave well knows it's not an easy process. But when you get into a situation where they're out of their routine and everything's crazy and they've got expectations around what kind of gift they're going to get or whatever they're going to see, or, oh my gosh, all of a sudden you've got five cousins staying in the house with you, those kinds of things really get kids out of their routine and out of their more regular expectations. And so when a child starts to act out, a parent automatically tries to control the behavior, and so you come up with your grounded or take this away, or you can't act this way, or whatever that parental action is.
Speaker 1:Yes, those things are needed because behaviors have to be maintained and everyone has to be kept safe emotionally, physically, all of that. But what is that child asking for? What's happening in that child's life that's causing all of this chaos? That to the point that the child's feeling the need to act out? And how can you then set up some expectations before this holiday season rolls around to help that child stay in more of a consistent schedule and routine? That's an area right now. I know you have experience with that, dave. What are your thoughts?
Speaker 2:I have been honing on to these thoughts so I wouldn't forget it. So hold the thought about what my thoughts are. Let me see if I can, if I have something Now let me go back Because it was something that I felt, one of the things I feel a lot of times like one impulse comes to both of us and we just respond in different ways. And I'm saying, oh, that's really so interesting, and that is the idea of trying to create an experience. That's what we all want.
Speaker 1:Experience, that's what we want.
Speaker 2:We want the experience of around the fire, and we are the Hallmark channel, and then we're watching the Hallmark channel, right, and so we micromanage it and we do. We think it's got to be this and it's got to be that, and I have found and I can talk about your parents being 76, I think that's old Hell. That's only five years older than me.
Speaker 2:But I have the benefit of 71 years and I'm still in pretty good health. But anyway, one of the benefits is that and I'll think about it as special with my daughter is the beautiful moments that I've had with her of intimacy and eternality and connection, and whenever have been surprises, They've been in the corners of life, they have not been on center stage where we did all this stuff. So, for what it's worth and I know you're nodding your head because you've had the same experience in not nearly 71 years, but you've had the same experience that the beautiful memories that I'm trying to create are just a gift. They're a gift that come because I'm present and because there's a miracle.
Speaker 2:There's two things. My job is to be present and then see what might come. So one to recognize that the more that you're trying to orchestrate an experience, you're probably just squeezing it. You're squeezing your own health and maybe squeezing the life out of it. So one yeah, you might have those, you'll have those moments, but for whatever it's worth, you're going to find those moments in life when you least expect it, rather than at the holiday, because I have catered Thanksgiving for 25 people with a string band and who knows what else.
Speaker 2:Right and then. But there's another. I was just thinking there's a little discernment here that requires a certain touch, because at the same time there's I watched the little touches that, like Julie puts, for there are things that matter. Yeah, I'm not just so you don't just throw your hat at and say whatever the hell happens yeah. But then you have a certain discernment that this is important. This is a tradition. This is a tradition I want to keep up. This is something that makes everyone feel connected, and this is a little touch.
Speaker 2:So, it's not just, it's, neither it's somewhere it's like I said, it's a sermon issue but one to just know that life will give you the intimacy and the connections and the magical moments that you so crave, without you having to knock yourself out by someone else's expectations to do that. And two, to just my own experience, to just be attentive to what are the touches. That really, what are the touches? And they're the matter. They're matters of the heart. They're not matters of the film crew coming in and filming your All-American Christmas. Yeah, they're the matters that everyone heart, feeling that connection.
Speaker 1:Yeah, no, I think that's a really important, an important comment, and I like that. It's a discernment issue, absolutely yeah. We have traditions in my family that I carry on, that my daughter carries on, and they are important and they do make things special for us, and those are things that we can focus some time on. They're not things that take us out of our happiness, they're not things that make us feel obligated, and that's where the discernment comes in. So I think that's an excellent point. And the other thing about this time of the year that I know it's something that I struggle with and always have, and even with deep awareness about it now still is that ending and new beginning, that ending and new beginning and I'm sure Dave this better than anybody. But January 2nd, the gym is full.
Speaker 2:Right.
Speaker 1:Yep, because everybody's going on a diet and they're starting a new plan and they're all these things. And I love new beginnings, I love change, I love new projects, I love being creative. I love all of those things. They feed my soul. But I have had to be very intentional with how I end one year and step into a new year, because it feels like used to.
Speaker 1:It used to feel very sad to me that a year was ending and then it could feel overwhelming that a year is beginning and I started to feel like I had to do all these things in this new year and I had to be different. And I had to because we went from 2022 to 2023. That boom, everything was different all of a sudden, and it's obviously that's not a logical thought process, but it was an emotional, energetic process for me that I had to really work with, to understand that. You know, it's just another day of the week and, yes, we're stepping into another year. And maybe part of this is age, because as we get older, those years really start to run together.
Speaker 1:You know, 10 years is nothing. I remember when 10 years felt like forever and 10 years is nothing. These days it's a blink of an eye, and so I think that's something to just be aware of, because we put so much energy into creating this magical, special holiday season for our family, for ourselves and whatever our friends and all of that and yes, some of that's important. I love you could take my grandson to cut a Christmas tree, like those kinds of things are important. But if we put so much energy into that and then all of a sudden it's over and you're throwing that tree out and we feed ours to the goats.
Speaker 1:that's something you can do with a Christmas tree is feed it to the goats. But all of that is gone and then it's oh, here's this new year and now I have to tackle that and I think that can be really overwhelming too. And oh, it's this opportunity that can be really overwhelming.
Speaker 2:I'm going to follow up on that a little different. And we there's so much practical advice and hard advice and third dimensional experience and all that, and yet, and also, hey, you're a shaman and I'm I don't have a card carrying, but I'm a wizard of sorts and there's like an other dimensional thing I like to bring, call whatever you want, a sensitivity, because there, at the same time, there is something in the air this time of year. Yes, there are so many opportunities. There are that one again, this is discernment, and that's what I love about. No one could I hope no one takes anything we say and makes a religion out of it, because, because there's just so much subtlety to this right, and this is another one of those where one yeah, you don't say, okay, it's the new year and I'm going to whatever. Back, I started my practice a lot of divorce, work and, my God, the first week of January you couldn't get an appointment with me.
Speaker 2:Everyone just working. I'm not going through another year with this. I'm going to start to show you know there's some practical stuff, but anyway, the point is one you don't want to just set yourself up for failure by thinking that somehow, because the calendar's changed, that now everything's going to be different.
Speaker 2:Very good and at the same time, maybe we can both speak in our own ways, and you especially, as an information on a practice. And even if we're in a shaman, you're still a midget. All the powers, all yours is what is it? What is different, what is the opportunity, energetically, any way you could speak to that that people can be sensitive to? One. Seize the opportunity and also to avoid maybe some of the pitfalls.
Speaker 1:No, that's a great question. And, yeah, this time of the year, the fourth quarter of the year, the veil is thin, and what I mean by that is the space between the world is very thin, between those of us who are still physically on this plane and those who have passed on and their spirit lives on, their soul lives on. So that's a great answer. There's a feeling in the air that comes from that, in my belief system and in my experience, that we are closer to our ancestors and that can be a wonderful, beautiful thing. It can also be a difficult thing, depending on your experience, but it's there and it's real. And then we have all of our religious. We bring in our religious belief systems that come to a culminating experience at the end of the year, and many religious belief systems have that, even if it's not this specific time of the calendar year, but there is a culminating time of the year and that's something that, not only in our society but in our genetics, we carry with us, right, and so there is that. Okay, something's coming to a close, something's coming to an end, something is about to shift or change and, yes, there, it is a magical time of the year and it's. I think that's another reason why you said it's a pregnant time of the year. Emotionally pregnant time it is. It's very full of emotions, all emotions joy and sadness, and fear and anxiety and all of it. And so that's another reason that all the things we're talking about happen is that, energetically, everything is up. Everything is up. All the nostalgia, all the fear, all the memories, the lack of memories, all of those things are up this time of the year and that is energetic. That's on the energetic plane. So how do we experience it? All the things that we've been talking about in this podcast are things we do to experience that, and I think that the opportunity for everyone, as a New Year starts, is to know that that energy is going to be one of a group.
Speaker 1:If you look at the environment, the world that we live in, and regardless of where you are in the world, there is a time of birth and there's a time of death and we have a time that everything has to cycle through. And for us, where we are in the Northern Hemisphere right now, we're coming to the end of fall, we're coming into winter season and then, of course, that's followed by spring and we have the winter solstice and our days start to get longer, we start to have a little bit more daylight every day, whereas now we're gaining darkness right now, and then we have the winter solstice and the shortest amount of daylight in the Northern Hemisphere, and so all of those things, energetically, give us the opportunity to shift. There's a reason that those people are sitting in your office the first week of January going I'm not going through this for another year, but yes, the calendar turned over and yes, one year ended and another year began. But I think it's more of an energetic shift. I think it's also the same reason that everybody goes to the gym the first week of January or the month of January and then, before long, people start to peter out and you're back to your core group of people in the gym again, because that's something that they're, that's a lifestyle choice that they've made. And again, I think that some of this is it's put on us from society that we make resolutions and promises and all these things to ourselves Energetically.
Speaker 1:The way that I look at it is this is the opportunity for growth. We're in the harvest time of the year, we're coming to the close of the harvest time of the year and everything is going to be very quiet for the next three months. Everything will be quiet. But while everything is being quiet, it's also growing. And I live in Canaan Valley, west Virginia. It's very quiet here. Dave knows he's been here, we don't. It's a dark skies area. We don't have a lot of light pollution, we don't have a lot of noise and in the wintertime, when I ride my horse through the woods in the wintertime it is the most quiet I have ever experienced. You can hear the snow drop from a branch onto the ground. It is so quiet and in that quiet those trees are starting to regenerate.
Speaker 1:The earth is taking that pause so that it can begin to grow again, so that it can begin to produce for us, so it sustains us. And if we get connected to that energy, we get connected to that earth energy and we get connected to that spirit energy, then we can move through this difficult, chaotic time with grace, with ease and with patience, knowing we don't have to do everything the first week of January. All we have to do is rest and know that the things that we can accomplish we can step right into. And so the energy shifts. I think that's what you're talking about the energy shifts. As the calendar year changes, the energy shifts and it becomes an energy of growth rather than an energy of silence and an energy of harvest. It's an energy of growth and we prepare for that so that by the time we start filling the warmth of the spring sun, we're ready to be outside again, we're ready to step into our lives in a different way, relating to each other in a different way. So I think that answered your question.
Speaker 1:From the energetic perspective of what all of this?
Speaker 2:looks like. Well, I was just saying this ain't your grandmother's podcast. This is so cool that we can just toggle back. I think that is so brilliant and so beautiful and I would encourage people to listen, play that back and just take some time with it, because there's a lot in there to unpack. And then but also, the quality of your voice changed when you talked about driving. You walked right that horse through the woods. I want you to feel that.
Speaker 2:I invite people to listen and feel the energetic difference of what it's like to have your soul and have your soul really touch what touches your soul. And it actually leads into a couple of thoughts I have, and I know we're coming to the end. I'll answer my own question as well, and one is that I think I've mentioned before that when I was practicing, I would add a cabin out and under my teacher's farm and I would go out there for a month and I would go out usually right after Christmas, and so I would totally I'd have 30 days of solitude and I could really I became so attuned. When you're like that, it's like you're just, you're like hyper, hyper sensitive and I I know from my own experience there and just through life that something is changing. There's something. It's not all in our heads.
Speaker 2:So, one just recognizing there is something there, and two just on a very practical level. You get a whole lot of people all making resolutions although I don't believe in them for resolutions, but there's so much power, you're catching a wave and you get millions or billions of people who are all thinking something, doing something, intentioning something. There is a wave to catch, there's a momentum to catch. So one, even if you don't say, oh, this energetic stuff is a, but hey, there is a intentionality wave that you can catch. And they've made a really beautiful point at the end that I'll end with on my own, and that is that it's not okay. December 31st on the Schmuck January 1st on.
Speaker 2:Enlightened. However, if you're looking at what's where the opportunity for growth is, it's already unfolding. You're getting hints. It's getting hints all the way through you start to see the patterns, and this is where self-reflection and self-honesty and also surrounding yourself with people like Angie and others who are reflective and honest is that you can start to get the pattern of oh, this is what's opening up. And then, rather than saying, okay, all my neighbors are going to the gym, I'm going to the gym, or I'm giving up drinking, I'm losing 10 pounds, whatever the hell it is.
Speaker 2:You're going to do differently, that you start to intuitively sense. No, this is what's already in play, and I am going to ride that wave into the changes that I want to make, rather than having an extra. And it goes all the way back to the beginning of expectations and getting where the people think, versus just closing your eyes, sitting and saying what's going on. That has to make me feel and that's time we'll spend. So, when this was one of the quicker hours I can have a read. Member.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it did. It flew by. You said that and I was like, wow, yeah, we've been talking for an hour. These are things I love to talk about and I know you and I we can philosophize with one another all the time. But I agree with Dave, I think, listening just to the whole podcast and really understanding that there's some great practical information for you there. And we do know that this is a very real time of the year where people struggle, especially kids and especially young adults who have challenges. And so if you do need help, reach out and ask. We're here, Happy to give you information, connect you with resources, whatever we can do to help your family have that magical time and be that Hallmark movie that everybody wants to be this time of the year. So, yeah, don't hesitate to reach out if you need some support. Everybody struggles.
Speaker 2:We're here. That was the way. Impulse I had as well is whatever it is, just you're not alone. And you shouldn't feel alone. Yeah, so, angie, this was lovely. Thank you for suggesting this, thanks for making, thanks for getting all dolled up, I know it wasn't for me but it was nice, nice, I love you. When your form closed to, it doesn't make any difference to me.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I am who I am and this is who I am today.
Speaker 2:We'll be recording. I think we'll probably have a guest on the next time, but this is when you and I can just go together. So thanks to you and thanks to everyone, and great holidays, guys.
Speaker 1:Yeah, Take care everybody.