Andrea Mundie: Co-Founder & CEO, skoah; Principal, RDCP Consulting, Inc.

“There has to be something that’s bigger than just the product … it has to be about the impact it has on the person on the other side.”

With a powerful management and franchising resume (including 19 years at the helm of skoah), Andrea now consults with numerous franchise enterprises on matters ranging from growth and international expansion strategies to the development of operational and branding systems. 

Andrea joins Ab & Vini to reveal how franchising is like parenting(!)... Why financial literacy PLUS loyalty to a franchise brand’s system will always result in the strongest numbers for ‘Zees… The critical importance of shared values to goal setting… and why you should have a few “partners in fear.”

Transcript

 Hi everyone, welcome and thanks for joining us for Stars of Franchising. Get ready for a roller coaster ride through the world of franchising as we bring you the best stories of inspiration and entrepreneurial grit and turning dreams into franchise realities. That's right Vinnie. From emerging to global brands, we'll chat with the genius minds behind the magic. All brought to you by the Tariq Farid Franchise Institute at Babson College. I'm Ab. And I'm Vinnie. Now buckle up for some serious inspiration.



 We're so excited for today's guest Andrea Mundie. And if you're seeing me on video, I have a little bit of my notes here because Andrea's background is so impressive. She was founder, former CEO and president of Skoa Skin Care Company with locations in Canada and US and scaled that and grew it and sold it, does consulting and worked on with a lot of incredible brands. And hopefully she'll touch upon that in her discussion. But Andrea, welcome.



 Hi.



 We're so excited to have you.



 I'm excited to talk to you today. Thank you. Well, one of the things we love to do here at Babson and on this podcast when we get guests like you is to start with your why and what caused you to do what you do and a little bit about your story for our guests.



 Okay, well, I'm going to answer that by starting probably at the macro level and going really far back into, you know, just the inception of my own business and my own company and a couple of the other companies I've started along the way. I think ultimately I like creating experiences for people, watching them respond to them and then make changes along the way. And I really like, I've learned actually through consulting that I like things that happen in real time. I like to have the ability to see something come to fruition right away and that instantaneous kind of response from either a customer or a business or a client that I'm working with. And really when I look at all of the things I've done over the many years of my career,



 it really does come down to being able to create something that makes an impact. And that translates into the type of board work I do. But also in the business community, there really has to be something bigger than just the product that is created and consumed. It has to be about what that impact has on the person on the other side of it.



 Well, this is great. Andrea, given your role as a consultant for many years to the world of franchising, what in your opinion do you think people misunderstand the most about franchising?



 Well, the first thing I think most people don't understand is the amount of preparation it takes to be ready to franchise. And the first step is actually having the tough conversation about recognizing that you may not actually have something to franchise. Just because you have a business that your community people like and you have attraction, you might even have great financials. If you don't have a strong enough point of differentiation, really distinct processes and enough financial bandwidth to be able to weather through those first three years, it's going to be really difficult to gain traction beyond maybe the first five to 10 units that are probably going to get bought right away by people that love you.



 I think that's what I see a lot is having to have that tough conversation that I think over the years now has become a lot easier because I've created more of a framework with the people that I have worked with to understand and recognize that franchising is one way to grow, but it may not be the best way to grow if you don't have those pieces in place.



 That's great advice. Given what you just said, Andrea, and some of your experiences, franchising isn't the right answer, as you mentioned, but if it is the choice and the method to scale, can you give some advice to maybe some owner operators that are in that three to seven unit brand and they're questioning where they are? What you see as some of the key fundamentals in building before you grow?



 Yeah, and I actually really like that you said that because three to seven units is a very good place to be to start to think about franchising. It often happens that somebody comes up with an idea, they actually haven't even operated and realized success metrics or even refined the model before they start franchising. When you get to three, that's where you have a lot of pressure tests applied upon you. You have to really learn to not... It's almost like parenting in a way. You go from two kids to three, the game changes 100% and I have four kids and it actually almost got easier when I got to four because if you don't have a system in place, things kind of fall apart. You are forced into creating systems and processes and you have to do them for your own survival.



 From three to seven, even I would say five at least and really knowing what works within that model. I didn't start franchising until I had a dozen locations and didn't even think about it because it was important to know what worked.



 Also, from a credibility standpoint, when you can stand in front of franchisees and discuss the business from being an owner operator yourself, it's much easier to speak and be heard and understood than it is to stand behind a screen now or from an office and explain things when you actually haven't really walked the walk. That would be the first thing.



 If you don't have a good handle on your finances and your financials, you're not doing your franchisees any favors.



 It's really difficult for your own success if you don't know when to anticipate those



 peaks and valleys financially and how you're going to manage bridging those gaps. It's a huge capital investment. It may not be the same capex to grow corporate locations, but it does require significant investment because there's things that come up along the way that you don't expect and you are expected to do a lot of the experimentation and fund that for the system.



 You need to project out years ahead into what it's going to take before you get to cashflow positive.



 That's usually what it takes is three years. Some people say 100 units. It depends on what other revenue streams you have as the franchisor.



 That is the other part of it is really looking at your business model and trying to see if a part of your growth strategy aside from franchising can include having another revenue stream so that you always have a bit of a backup to fund the operations of the franchisor.



 Because if you're running at a cash and you're running things to lean, it becomes very difficult to grow your system and scale.



 Andrea, again, looking back at what you have seen in your work as a franchisee and of course a franchisor, what would you consider your biggest failure and what were the AHA learning moments for you as a result?



 Yeah, there's two things that come to mind.



 I think the first is probably a lesson that applies not just to franchisors but to people that work in franchise systems. Because it's a great experience to have if you work with franchisees in whatever capacity that might be. Perhaps as a franchise business manager supporting franchisees.



 There's quite a difference between marketing for franchisee systems than other types of systems because you've got really two different marketing funds to manage. There's lots to learn there. I think the first lesson would be that in franchising, you have to look at what is good for the whole and not the needs of one. It's very difficult to do for some team members because you will have some franchisees who have a lot of passion about what they believe to be the best thing. They get very invested in that and can put a lot of pressure on your team to diverge from the path and the vision. The way to manage that in my opinion and my experience is to have really clear goals that everyone is aligned on. Very clear KPIs and not just goals but the why behind those goals and alignment on values and drive back to those values. When you do that, it becomes easier to look at the big picture because if you're diverging off on tangents because you've got one or two loud people, you're really not servicing the needs of the system. That's definitely a mistake.



 I think not in a large way but I've certainly fallen into that trap especially early on. The second one that I think was something I really reflected on since COVID and it came to light during COVID is really looking at the two styles of managing fear because fear is something that is a big part of entrepreneurship and it's certainly a spectrum.



 What I really thought a leader had to do was maybe not landing the way I intended it to.



 When COVID hit, I noticed that a lot of the franchisees looked to me as though I would have answers to what would happen next. Of course, no one had answers as to what would happen next. Right away, I think it was unrealistic for me to expect that I should have answers but I really wanted to. What I saw though was that there were really two different types of ways that people manage fear and this definitely applies to things beyond COVID.



 Some people, they really need to embrace fear. They need to sit with it for a while. They need to run scenarios. They need to have a group around them to talk through it with them. They need to worry. A partner in worry. I say that with empathy, they need someone to panic with for a little while, relate to, they need that comfort. Then there's others who want solutions, they want to go forward, they don't want anything to get in their way.



 By nature, I spend very little time in that fear and worry and a lot of time in, "Okay, how do we go forward?" I saw that as my role was to create optimism. I said that to myself every day. I'm here to create optimism and hope. I focused very quickly on building solutions and a path forward but I don't think that landed as well with people that needed to sit and process that fear.



 It would definitely be the case that I could have come across as less empathetic even though that wasn't my intention. My intention was actually to move everyone forward. I think I realized that I needed to recognize more carefully how other people were needing different timelines to get to that place.



 Usually they got there but they needed to pivot and they needed that in a different way than others did.



 I think that definitely carries through. In how I think I work with people in companies that I contract into or even just mentor,



 I will often see very clearly what they need to do to get to a certain point in their business.



 I don't feel frustrated like I did before that they don't see it because I've realized that sometimes it just takes a bit of time to get there and let go of some of the beliefs around what you think works or you think should be the case.



 That definitely came from ways that I saw I probably didn't do things as well as I should have. I'll follow up a little bit on that because you touched on some great things. One the partnership and the dynamics of the franchisee relationship.



 I'll come back to innovation and partnership that came out of the pandemic. Can you first talk a little bit about Andrea as a founder and you're growing and scaling



 and you're bringing in franchisees and you're seeing success.



 Here are some of the best attributes that franchisees have had that have been successful, whether that's being able to pivot or be creative and work in the system. Can you share that for our audience from a franchise or perspective, what you've seen on the franchisee side?



 Sure.



 Hands down, I've worked with systems that have many locations like hundreds and then some that have very few. One thing that I have not yet seen to be disproven is that the franchisees that have committed to following the system that the franchise or has created, their financials are always stronger. I don't just mean their top line. I mean what drops to the bottom, which is obviously the most important metric ultimately. I think there's a couple of reasons for that. The first is they really understand they've invested in a system and done the research to understand that the system itself is strong.



 They have trust and that's really important in any kind of business partnership. They also have a focus on understanding that the franchisee is going to work with them in a certain way and they're going to work successfully in a certain way. If they focus on their local market, their own key performance indicators and allow the system to work the way it was designed, then the numbers work out and they always do. They're also not distracted in creating extraneous systems. They're leveraging a lot of the tools and technology that they're already paying for.



 What often happens when you see franchisees who are not as focused on following the system, they're actually burning a lot of cash because they aren't using a lot of the tools that might be a part of their tech package or marketing fund. They're paying for extra places to do things and they're not capitalizing on some of the enterprise level value of these systems.



 For sure, that's one of them.



 I think the other one is the franchisees that are fully engaged in understanding their financials. It's really interesting how few have spent the time to understand those or who have a belief that they can't understand financials. I don't come from a finance background, but it was so much easier to run a business when I understood that. It was definitely a hump to get over, especially in the early days.



 Really making sure that they're financially literate and knowing what all of the different components mean.



 Then being really engaged with the system and their location and not being too absentee. I don't really think there's a true absentee model out there.



 I just don't. I think fundamentally, in terms of how business works, I don't know of very many successful businesses that run without someone that really cares about it and the customers.



 It's hard work. We've heard that before, right? The franchising doesn't dismiss you from hard work one and two. I love the comments around. You've said it a few times in this discussion on financial focus.



 Not only is it franchisor, but knowing your four-wall economics and what's going on in your store, which is great advice because, as you stated, you've got to be prepared for



 the next few years for your units. Vinny? Yeah. You mentioned that when you were talking about fear, how you manage fear during the pandemic as an example.



 You mentioned the word a couple of times, entrepreneurship.



 Some people will say, "Wait a minute. Franchising, entrepreneurship? Do those two go together?" I think you just get a blueprint, a roadmap, and then you just go and do it. You don't have to think again. What would you say to that?



 I really disagree with that. I think why I wanted to be involved in franchising because, at first, I didn't know as much about franchising. I think it was really quite isolated to fast food. The more I learned about it, the more I realized that it's such an incredible opportunity to provide a platform for others to become entrepreneurs.



 Over the years, I've spoken to a lot of people, often in entrepreneurship programs or women in business who might be thinking of starting businesses or have an idea.



 Many times, what gets in the way is fear. They want to do something. They often are looking for a business partner. I will say, "Why?" They don't know why. I realized through the conversation, they want a partner in fear. They want someone to share the fear with.



 Franchising is actually a great solution to that because they can be an entrepreneur. They are an entrepreneur. There's a high degree of the need to have that threshold for risk to start any business, including a franchise. In fact, it's almost magnified to some extent being a franchise entrepreneur because you are putting your trust in a variable that will change over time.



 The thing is that you get to create entrepreneurs. You get this opportunity to find entrepreneurs that are passionate about something in your business that might not be something you've even noticed in your business. As a whole, your business can improve and get better because you've got great ideas coming through. I will say the mistake that I think some franchisors make is they don't look at it that way. They look at it as wanting to just grow for the sake of it or open more to have more. They don't stop to think about why they want to grow. The problem with that is when they're not picking entrepreneurs as franchisees that are going to look at the business the same way they do, not exactly, I don't know that they're going to realize the same vision they might have had for their business. But overall, I love the business model of franchising because it allows people to have their own business, but be a part of something bigger where they get the support without having a business partner that probably within a couple of years they realize, "We probably didn't need to be partners." They just thought they did. That's often when things become a problem. Wow. This is amazing. I love the point about the franchisee selectment and alignment of purpose and values.



 Can you talk a little bit about that and how you approached it to make sure you had the right type of franchisee as you grew and scaled? Because, as you know better than we do, Andrea, a lot of problems and hiccups happen when either franchisee selection isn't correct or vice versa. The franchisee didn't fit that. Can you talk a little bit about that importance and how both emerging brands and franchisees can ensure an alignment of interest?



 Yeah, I actually spent a lot of time in my business talking about core values and working on developing materials that used and leveraged the core values to make decisions, not just at the franchisee selection point, but throughout the training, how we handle things. Because I actually find goal setting very difficult for most people to do if they don't have clarity on what their values are. Once you have very strong clarity on what your values are and what your vision might be, the goals actually seem to more or less just be the steps in that process to get to that vision.



 But I think what happens in a lot of cases is companies will focus on goals and short-term pieces, but because they haven't necessarily invested a lot of time in perhaps really internalizing the vision and turning it into the values that are attached to it, the goals don't necessarily have as much meaning for people because they're not part of a larger purpose within the company. So I've always made sure that the very first piece of any of the process of evaluation connects back to the values of the business.



 In my previous business, we were maybe over the top in how we talked about our values.



 I think that when I look back, I don't think that was a mistake. I actually think it really created a system that in some ways governed itself because the franchisees, if they saw something that was out of alignment with the values, they didn't like it.



 They would really want to write the ship in terms of having those values put back into alignment.



 I think that's very true for life. One of the things that I always did in my own company, and I encourage those I work with that are CEOs to do, is share their own personal values with the people they work with and the people that are in their system because they're not necessarily the same as the business, but it helps when everyone in the company understands the process of creating values. When you do something for yourself, it's much easier to understand than it is to try and do it for your business.



 It has become quite a positive experience for most to really think about what those personal values are and how they help them make decisions in their life.



 I know talking about personal values, for many years you've had to champion the cause for women in business. Then again, congratulations for the award you got a few years ago.



 That recognition that, hey, this is what Andrea has done for many years to elevate voices and to give voices to those who don't have.



 Along that line, can you share with us your thoughts about the whole conversation about diversity, equity, and inclusion of all types and how you have been able to imbibe that in your franchise system and also what you think is going on in the world around these issues, but within the world of franchising at the same time?



 I think what I've learned in the last probably five or six years, because I have spent a lot of time in the US working, I've mostly spent time running the US company with our partners in the US. I really learned that what happens in Canada is just so very different than what happens in the US.



 Part of that is, I think, population.



 The number of people in the area is just so much more spread out. I think when there's a more concentration in a city, things are a little bit different.



 I really realized when I got into working in the US that, yeah, it was very, very different.



 In some situations, there was more of a magnification of some of the issues that maybe came up in Canada.



 I think I saw a little bit more polarization than we would necessarily be used to in Canada.



 I had to really look at that differently and learn how to listen more and be more, I guess, adaptable to a different type of conversation. Because in Canada, for example, politics are just not something that people talk about very often. It's almost like it would be rude.



 That's just not something that people talk about. But yet, in my experiences in the US, there's almost pride around the political spectrum, to some extent, that you sit on.



 I always felt that I needed to be in a position of learning, not having an opinion.



 But I do think that, yeah, I'm female, but I grew up very fortunate in that I grew up in Canada. I grew up in a relatively middle class, I suppose, family. My learnings now have been that what maybe I thought might have been challenging over the years really hasn't been. Because now we have so much more, there's been so much more information available to us about what real struggle looks like, and what real challenges look like, and what racism truly looks like.



 That is not something that I can say that even though I've sat in a room and been discriminated against because I'm female, I've certainly dealt with that. I've certainly been talked over. I've certainly had people disregard me instantaneously. But I also recognize that on the spectrum, that is a drop in the bucket for what most people have experienced.



 I think all that we can do and all that I can do is continue to do what I hope I have always done, which is just keep the door open for everyone that comes in to meet me and is interested in what I'm doing.



 I would like to hope that I've not ever treated anyone any differently based on any of maybe the things that I could be accused of maybe being discriminatory for. But I think we've always at SCOA, my previous business, and certainly the diversity within the client base that I worked with, had a very broad community of people that have worked with us. Lots of different cultures and races and backgrounds and helped people through many, many difficult personal situations and family situations.



 I think that if you want to go the long haul in business, if you don't conduct yourself that way, I don't see how you get very far. Wow. Wow. So well said. One of the things Vinnie and I have been hearing and talking about and we're excited about is the opportunity for franchising the model and the ultimate network that is in the collaboration that you spoke of to be a pathway for change and generational wealth creation for a lot of represented groups, which can be really exciting.



 So one of the things we'd love your take on since you've been around, innovated, seen innovation and then gotten through the pandemic and thrived and seen companies thrive. Can you talk about some of the innovation you saw that came out of the pandemic and maybe anything that tends or portends for the future coming out of it and going forward?



 Yeah, I think a couple of things that I've seen.



 I think franchise systems had to tighten up all of their operating systems and create a lot more technology to support their franchisees because they were not able to rely on some of the things that they did before, like in-person visits, going to conferences, having conferences. So they had to find a way to engage without physically engaging.



 I think that brought the rise of a lot of different tools that wowed franchisors and COOs and a lot of systems now seem to have a million different places to log into and



 support the operations of their business. The problem, though, that I see is that they're not generally leveraging the capabilities of these systems because there's almost too many of them. And so I think while technology has helped, I think there needs to be more refinement in the process of picking through what type of operations management systems, for example, you might leverage within your system. You still need people to manage those systems.



 There's two other things I thought about, and you and I spoke about this in the past, and that's really the rise of private equity looking at franchise systems.



 I don't recall from previous conferences seeing quite so many private equity firms.



 But conferences that had smaller franchise systems, like under 100 units, there seems to be a real appetite there. But what I think is missing and needs to be a part of that vetting process is almost a tour guide, someone who can help the private equity groups understand what the emerging brands need to get to that next level. Because sometimes private equity comes in, they don't necessarily provide the support. They provide the capital. And that in-between piece that is specific to franchising may not exist because private equity might have a lot of other types of support. It just may not be specific to franchising, and that can be a bit of a problem. And then I think lastly, where there may be a place to bridge the gap is tons of platform companies have emerged. And I sold my company to a platform company that I was a partnership relationship with. That was Franworth. So they and I like some of these models, not all of them, where they have a group of people that provide services. They bring in brands at a certain size and help them grow by leveraging the expertise across the board. But sometimes it can really pillage the capital of the franchisor because they may be over servicing them. So you really got to make sure your agreement is making financial sense for you as a franchisor within the near future, not when you're at like 300 units. And that can be difficult. So from a trends perspective, I think what might start to happen is that you might start to see more franchisees, not just going and taking multi-unit ownership, but multi-brand ownership. Because these platforms have so many different brands, they might be in the same umbrella. You might have a beauty company might have lashes, face, and nails. You've got the same customer you can market to. So you can economize on that, but you've got something a bit distinct to give them. So I think that might be something that gains some leverage.



 Andrea, you've worked, you have many unique capabilities. And one of those, I think, is you're having worked in Canada and also here in the United States. And I'm sure you've also interacted with people overseas, outside these two countries.



 Are there differences the way people sort of see franchising across, for instance, just US and Canada? And if so, what are those? I love this question. Yes, there's a big difference.



 And it's not just about franchising. And I hope my Canadian friends don't get mad at me. I noticed this many years ago when I first opened my first US location. And that was when I opened my own. When I came to the US, I noticed that opening a business in the US was something that people were so happy for me to do. And I didn't know very many people in the US at that point. So I would meet people in the community where I was opening a new location. And they were so-- like, they wanted me to win. They wanted me to succeed. They wanted to help. They wanted to connect. In Canada, there's such a different way of looking at business. It's so conservative in a way. And almost like, why do you want to do that? Like, there's a sort of skepticism.



 Almost like, it's probably not going to work. And you have to really prove it's going to work before people celebrate it. And they do eventually. But Canadians often take time to process what it is. They're skeptical before they're happy.



 My American friends, seemingly from my experience, appear to be very happy and excited about something new. They want to be a part of it before they have skepticism around it. And so I really loved that. I thought that was just fantastic. And it was really easy to make connections and build community in the locations where we were opening. It was a little bit more difficult in Canada. And maybe the way to look at it is that in Canada, the population is so much smaller.



 And so who you have as a captive audience has to be shared with a lot of different-- with fewer people in the US. I think that consumerism is just a bit different. So maybe it's just that the customer isn't as scarce. So it could be a bit of that too. OK. Are there also differences in terms of, for instance, this franchise disclosure agreement?



 This-- FDD. The FDD. So are they different across those two countries? Are there areas where you think people have to pay attention to if you're having to work across countries? Yeah. So the order of the items is a little bit different. But more or less, the laws are very, very similar. I see. So how you would conduct yourself as a franchise or as a franchisee, the things you need to say and do and not say and do are very, very similar. I see. But they're just called different items. So it gets a little confusing going back and forth. But it's not difficult to take your US FDD, work with a Canadian franchise lawyer, and convert that into a Canadian franchise disclosure document. Interesting. Interesting. Thank you. Thank you. Interesting. Thank you. In Europe, it's-- yeah, it's a little bit different overseas. There's quite a few differences, depending on the country. I see. Thank you. So many great insights that go beyond just franchising, but cover entrepreneurship leadership. Thank you, Andrea. One question or piece of advice I would love to have you give or talk a little bit about for aspiring entrepreneurs that are looking to become franchisees-- I mean, you've touched on a lot. But what advice would you give somebody--



 you've seen it in the past. Maybe folks later in their careers who are leaving corporate to do something. But how about the younger generation and emerging groups, if they're going to enter franchising, advice you'd give them as they evaluate systems or navigate this new world that you've talked about and you know so much about?



 So if they're thinking about becoming a franchisor,



 I would say start to explore the community of franchising, because it is incredible.



 I think I really feel like I've found a community of people that are supportive, you know, leaving my own business after almost 20 years and kind of jumping off a cliff without a parachute. That's what it felt like.



 I discovered just how much opportunity is within franchising based on the people I was able to connect with. So learn from people. People want to teach you the systems that they've had to learn. It's really different. It's not competitive, even though we're all competing for the same people to buy our franchise, even if one might be a pizza hut, one might be a nail bar. It doesn't matter. You're still trying to get the same person to buy your system, but you're not competing either,



 because you all want to make sure it's the right fit.



 So learn from people. Suppliers to the franchise community are one of the best resources of information. You learn so much from them. For franchisees, looking at systems to invest in,



 if you are not talking to a franchisor that has a process in place to walk you through how to become a franchisee of that brand, I really recommend you look at a few other brands before you make any decision, because if they have not invested the time in making sure that how you go through that process is consistent so that they can evaluate fairly everyone that wants to come into that system and learn as much about you as you are about them, then I would have some concerns about what would happen once you're in the system. Really understanding what their systems are, what operating systems are they using? How are they communicating with you on an ongoing basis?



 And really dig into those questions and then talking to other franchisees in the system. And the reason that's important is you actually want to hear, sometimes you want to hear the bad stuff, because it tells you how a franchisor dealt with something, but it also gives you really good insight. Every single franchise system has a certain percentage of franchisees that are just not great. They're not a fit for the system, they're not bad people, they just probably aren't in the right system, but they're in it. They've married each other for a time. So what is helpful is to learn from what it's going to be like to be a franchisee with people that might not be as easy to deal with, because it is also difficult for franchisees to have people in their system that are difficult. It's not just difficult for the franchise or because it affects lots of things like customers that you might share.



 So don't just look for people to say that they love it, you want to hear all different angles. But if you're thinking about becoming a franchisor, go to the emerging brand conferences that exist, Springboard or the IFA conferences. IFA is an incredible resource. I think they've changed things a bit now where you actually have to have an FDD to become a member, but don't quote me on that. But you may be able to attend a conference, I'm not too sure, and really like incredible resources through IFA. Even if you're not a member, there's a lot of programming and education,



 and Springboard is a great emerging brand conference. I really recommend that.



 There's tons of resources. So I would say just start learning, start talking to people, ask for conversations. Andrea, before you leave, I have one question that I want to throw out to you.



 As a franchisor, what's one thing that keeps you awake at night?



 The one thing that kept me awake at night as a franchisor, well, you know, at the very end, it was during COVID, I wanted to make sure everyone made it through, you know? And I don't just mean financially, like made it through mentally. I mean, it's really, really hard because any business owner, whether they're franchisee or they run any business, you're managing a lot of emotions, your employees. And so it was very, very difficult. But I think lots of things keep me up at night because my brain is one of those brains that is in the middle of the night.



 Yeah, but I think what keeps me up at night, honestly, is it's innovation. I'm trying to keep track of ideas and I want to write them down and find a way to make them happen.



 And then, Andrea, with four kids, having four kids and navigating all of these, how was that? I mean, also, do you shield your kids from your world of franchising and all this



 stuff? Or how did you cope?



 I think my kids, they're different kids because they grew up with entrepreneurial parents. This has always been their life. They were born into it. I've never been able to see my life in buckets with work being in one and life being in another. I know it works for some people.



 It doesn't work for me. Part of that is because I like to know what's happening. I'm curious. I don't see me talking to someone while I'm with my kids for a moment as work. It's just connection.



 Giving somebody something they need right away. Or, I mean, there's boundaries for sure. So, and I've also felt that being a human is important with franchising. So, in my early days, I was driving to Seattle from Vancouver. It's about a three or four hour drive. And I had my babies with me when they were first born. They were just with me. My daughter, I think she went to like seven cities before she was two months old. They become easy. It's what they're used to.



 In the carriage and off you go. You're on your plane. You're in a hotel. And then I was very fortunate to have someone live with me for a long time who she's still a part of our life as a family member now who just really made... I couldn't have done what I did without her. She just really started as a caregiver with the kids and just became a family member. Wow. Wow. This is awesome. Wow. This is incredible. Love it. And Andrew, thank you so much. And you really represent a lot what's great, not only about franchising and the network you talked about in the sharing, but



 authentic leadership and innovation and entrepreneurial zest. So, we loved having you as a guest. We hope that you'll be a guest in person here at the Tariq Fareed Franchise Institute in Babson at some point in the future. And if there's anything we can do to help you on your journey, I'm sure we'll continue to collaborate. And really, really grateful for your time today. Thank you. Thank you. I would love that. That'd be amazing. Nice to meet you both. Okay. I mean, I've met you, Ab. But yeah, thank you. Thank you, Andrea. Thank you. Have a wonderful rest of the week. Thanks for joining us on this episode of Stars of Franchising. Stars of Franchising was produced at Babson College, engineered by Travis Gray. Karen Sowell is our guest coordinator and music by Ralph Taylor. If you like Stars of Franchising, be sure to review us wherever you get your podcasts. And swear the word and share these stories any way you can.