Anna Nasset of Stand Up Resources and Kelly Putnam from Lawson's Finest Liquids discuss how businesses and employers can better support their employees and survivors to create a world in which all people can thrive. A great listen for anyone who owns, manages or works at a business or organization!
Episode Resources and Links:
Businesses Uplift Vermont
Stand Up Resources
Lawson's Finest Liquids
Pink Boots - women in the alcoholic beverage industry
We Vow
Anna Nasset of Stand Up Resources and Kelly Putnam from Lawson's Finest Liquids discuss how businesses and employers can better support their employees and survivors to create a world in which all people can thrive. A great listen for anyone who owns, manages or works at a business or organization!
Episode Resources and Links:
Businesses Uplift Vermont
Stand Up Resources
Lawson's Finest Liquids
Pink Boots - women in the alcoholic beverage industry
We Vow
Welcome to the Uplift Conversations podcast where we discuss the social and community contexts that contribute to a culture where violence can thrive, and what we can do as individuals and members of communities to change that culture of violence, and create a world in which all people can live free. My name is Jessica, I use she her pronouns, and I do policy and organizing work at the Vermont Network. I'm super excited to be hosting this conversation alongside one of my most favorite people ever.
Llu Mulvaney-Stanak:Thanks, Jess. I'm Llu everybody. I use they them pronouns. I'm a media maker here in Vermont and a community activist and I'm so honored to be brought into these conversations alongside some really fantastic humans doing really pivotal work here in the state.
Jessica Barquist:Let me share a little bit about our guests today. Anna Nasset is a survivor, a writer and artist and activists speaker and the owner of Stand Up Resources. Anna is an award winning international speaker on the subject of stalking and gender based violence, and has trained over 150,000 people since she started training in 2018. Anna is also the host of her own podcast called The Mend. And she recently partnered with us at the Vermont Network on our businesses uplift program, which you'll hear more about in a little bit. Thanks for joining us, Anna.
Anna Nasset:Thanks so much for having me. Thrilled to be here with you all.
Jessica Barquist:And we have with us today, Kelly Putnam from Lawson's finest liquids. Kelly is the director of people and purpose at Lawson's finest liquids, overseeing the company's HR function and Social Impact Program. She launched into the world of HR right after high school receiving her BS from Cornell University in industrial and labor relations. Prior to joining the Lawson finest team, she worked in corporate HR for a large grocery wholesale company, spent a few years at an outdoor adventure company, and served as an HR generalist at Cabot Creamery. Originally from Vermont, Kelly moved back here in 2020. Thanks for joining us, Kelly.
Kelly Putnam:Thanks so much for having me. I'm so excited to talk about these important topics.
Jessica Barquist:Anna, I'd love to start with you as a survivor. When we're we're thinking about the experience of survivors broadly, whether it's domestic sexual violence, what have you, Why is it important that we talk to employers about survivors? What it means to be a survivor, how we hold survivors? Like why? Why do we bring employers into this conversation?
Anna Nasset:You know, I think it's so important that we bring employers into this conversation, because oftentimes, the way that a victim or survivor is handling what's happened to them, the harm that's happened to them, is going to affect the way they work. And so it might be, you know, I can speak for myself that I was really distracted, or I was showing up too late, late to work or, you know, is making a lot of mistakes and typos, things that an employer might look at and be like, Oh my gosh, like what's going on with you, you're lazy, or you know, what's going on and not realize that actually, what's happening in the workplace is a direct result of what's happening in my personal life. So being able to look at someone who might be behaving differently than how they normally would in the work setting, can help an employer identify if that person is possibly being harmed, and then engage in the right ways to support them and direct them towards services.
Kelly Putnam:I just totally agree with everything Anna said, I think so many of us spend the majority of our waking hours at our employers or are connected to our employers in a remote capacity. And that just really gives employers an opportunity to have a great deal of influence over that employees experience. So you know, many employers sort of may take a more passive approach. But there's also an opportunity to have this proactive, supportive relationship. That's not just ensuring physical safety, but also focusing on the emotional and psychological safety of employees as well.
Jessica Barquist:And, you know, I imagine that most employers, they really want to know, because they care about the folks that work for them.
Kelly Putnam:Yeah, absolutely. And I think also being aware of what folks are dealing with is crucial to creating a partnership to talk about ways to find solutions. So maybe there are some accommodations that could be made or flexibility to a work schedule, or, like I was saying, maybe a second set of eyes for editing purposes just to have that extra level of support. Opening that dialogue is huge to ask for what you need so that your employer can then be aware and hopefully set something up for you.
Llu Mulvaney-Stanak:And Kelly, can I just ask obviously, this doesn't need to be like totally public information throughout someone's entire workplace, like this would fall squarely under like kind of HR personnel privacy sides of things to really help an employee be successful in the workplace, this isn't a like, you have to share it with everybody in on your team or, you know, beyond the need to know people. It's really just like helping people succeed through a really tough time. Is that fair to say?
Kelly Putnam:Yeah, yeah, absolutely. I would say HR is a fantastic place to start, just because that confidential component is relatively inherent. When I'm meeting with folks, I really like to talk with folks and say, Okay, we've had this great conversation, here are some next steps, I'm thinking about, get their consent, make sure that they know if any additional conversations aren't gonna happen to make these accommodations come to life, that that employee is part of that, and they are aware of those who might be brought into the conversation. So just retaining ownership over that, I think, is really huge.
Anna Nasset:You know, one of the things that I really think about, and this is, you know, from my own personal experiences, I think back to when I was employed, and my father passed away, and when he was diagnosed, my boss at the time was like, here's a laptop, go back to Ohio, work when you can, gave me a lot of bereavement time, all of these different things, right. And then when I went back to work, obviously, still was not okay, it'd been a very sad and dramatic life changing experience. But my workplace where I was employed, did so many things to support me through that, and had those extra set of eyes on things when I was making mistakes this and that. And so I think, you know, when we look at something like that, like what we do, for someone who's grieving or has been in an accident, has, you know, something physically wrong, we make those accommodations. And we need to start doing that for people who are experiencing gender based violence as well.
Jessica Barquist:Yeah, that's such a great point. And there are state and federal accommodations for victims of violence, so there are opportunities for employers to support folks if they need it. Kelly, I love that you started kind of internally with HR. And that's a great place to start. And I know that Lawson's has already done a lot of this work. There's the internal part. And I want to dig into like, what does that look like? How do you do that? But I also think, particularly when I think about Lawson's, you guys have been very vocal about your support for victims and survivors of gender based violence. And I'd love to just hear from you, How that started? why Lawson's made the decision to be really vocal about these issues?
Kelly Putnam:Yeah, absolutely. Thanks for asking. So just a quick little history about the company. We've been in existence for a while, but our sort of public facing aspect, including our taproom, has been around since 2018. And at that point, our the number of staff really grew exponentially, and we had a larger team to cater to. So at that point, those who were in charge, the Lawson's themselves, really took a look at how our business was structured. And they instituted our Social Impact Program, which still exists today. And there's five different initiatives. But the one that really feels perhaps the most relevant here is having a great place to work. And that can come through in so many different ways. But in addition to sort of the total compensation and taking care of our folks, there's an aspect there that focuses on company culture, working really proactively to affirm and support our staff. And that has come through in many different ways. One, of course, was actually bringing on in to do some trainings with our staff. Those are fantastic. We focused on bystander intervention, workplace culture, we talked about what does domestic violence look like? or human trafficking or sexual assault? And how can we support one another within our business? And additionally, how do we support any customers that come forward and approach our staff who may be in some uncomfortable or unsafe situation? So I think it's it's really been key to our identity ever since we have grown into the company that we are now. And it takes many different forms, some of which is bringing in external experts to talk about the topics and really give our team members that set of skills to take care of themselves, hopefully take care of each other. And then of course, also, the public too.
Jessica Barquist:And that work that you all did at Lawson's kind of coincided with some national movement work and building in the industry as well.
Kelly Putnam:Yeah, absolutely. Folks who are listening to this may have been aware of sort of the reckoning that the brewing industry had years ago and it just essentially called out the sexism and really inappropriate behaviors that plagued so many different breweries across the country. It tends to be a male dominant industry. I'm really happy to share that here at Lawson finest, we have a very even gender breakdown and work again really proactively to make sure that we're supporting the women who we are bringing into this industry. There's a group called pink boots and it's an organization that helps support women in beer. And through that, we've been able to bring language to it, we do a pink boots brew, every year, where all the women of Lawson's finest come together, and create or create and brew our own beer. And again, just supporting that sisterhood that that is sort of a niche within the brewing industry, and combating that history of really inappropriate behavior that we've seen.
Jessica Barquist:Anna, you I know that you did some work for Lawson's, but you're also developing this kind of broader training for businesses here in Vermont. And I wonder if you can just share with us like for business folks who are like, this sounds great, but I have no idea where do you even start? Like, what are a few places that you might recommend for them to start?
Anna Nasset:Well, I think, you know, first off, we start with Vermont Network. And the Uplift campaign, I think is a really good place to start for business owners who are listening. And that's where we are developing this training, resources, things where you can just go on and you know, get information and not even necessarily bring in a training, just start to learn that information, bite sized pieces at a time, I think is really helpful. And then yeah, like, you know, I guess we are creating this uplift training that we can come and bring into businesses of all kinds like to, you know, this is an issue that all of us as a state, as a community as a, as employers as employees need to tackle together. And I think that I'm just so impressed with what our state of Vermont is doing with the uplift campaign, I am so stoked to be a part of it as well. And to bring this out and to make it really digestible, because these are hard issues, right? These are issues that so often people are like, we do not want to talk about this, this does not happen here. Or, you know, if we if we bring in training that makes it look like we have a problem. Well, that's not the case at all, like we all know that gender based violence is happening every community, which means there's a very good chance of that, or somebody who works for you, or is your colleague that is experiencing that. So by bringing in these trainings, and making it approachable, and making it conversational, and educational, it really empowers everyone to have those tools that they can take into their workplace, into their personal life, into their friendships, into their neighborhoods, everywhere we go.
Jessica Barquist:I love that. I love that framing Anna of you know, this isn't a problem that we have here at our worksite and the shame that could be associated with that. But really that acknowledgement that this happens everywhere. And we are all a part of a community. And so this is an issue that impacts us all. That's such a an inclusive framework.
Anna Nasset:When you bring in trainings, and you create these campaigns, and you promote this work, like Lawsons has done, what you're also doing is saying to your potential customers, this is a safe place to go. You know, and it's also just saying to people who may cause harm, oh, maybe my behavior is incorrect, maybe I need to shift what I'm doing. And that's how we start to, you know, uproot the generational abuse that we see. And so I think the ripple effect, that bringing in education and training is so huge.
Kelly Putnam:But I think that training is so important because, again, our Taproom space is customer facing, and I'm sure you've all heard the adage, like the customer's always right. And that just creates this really unfair and unsafe power dynamic, where staff may feel like they're not allowed to speak up if they are hearing something that's inappropriate, or if they're being spoken to in a way that just isn't doesn't abide by our standards of conduct as a company. And so I think giving language to that and saying, You don't have to accept that you can talk to your manager, and we will set those boundaries on your behalf as a company, because, yes, we're hiring you to work with the public, but we're not hiring you to tolerate just anything that they want to throw at you. And of course, like the absolute vast majority of our customers are fantastic. But the industry itself, I think does have a history of of some unfairness in that regard and inappropriate behavior. So if you don't give language to it, and explicitly say, we have your back and, you know, if you don't feel comfortable, talk to your manager, we'll keep escalating it as needed. But, you know, we just we don't do that here. And everyone is welcome. We have signs out that that explicitly say, Everyone is welcome here. And we make sure that our behavior backs that up, too.
Jessica Barquist:That's so great, Kelly, and I wonder in situations, would you be willing to share with us if there has been a situation where you've had to kind of follow through on that in your tap room? And how was that impact on staff?
Kelly Putnam:Yeah, yeah, I mean, with the volume of folks that we have coming in and out of our buildings over the last five years there, there has been very few instances, but moments where staff have brought something forward and either corrected the behavior themselves or sought the support from a manager, and, you know, if you do have to ask someone to leave, if they can't adhere to those standards, then that's something you have to do to really create a safe environment for your staff to be operating in. So luckily, it's very few and far between, but that that's there, and we have incredible managers who are ready to step into that position should they need to.
Jessica Barquist:And what I hear from that, Kelly is that by kind of setting up this framework, initially, before there's an issue, it really empowered your staff to be able to set those healthy boundaries for themselves and make sure that they could maintain safety. You know, often I hear from folks like, I was just really unsure on what I could do or how I should respond in this situation. And what I think I'm hearing from you is that they had that training, and so they were able to respond and be really clear when or if a problem does happen.
Kelly Putnam:Yeah, absolutely. Because if you don't say it explicitly, then assumptions are made. And that's where the miscommunication is driven from and, you know, maybe they, they think, Oh, I shouldn't say something. But even just giving that openness to ask the question to say, if you're not sure, and it feels a little wonky, go talk to somebody, because that's sort of where we can actually start and take action to show that support. And we hear it from our staff that that means so much to them. Not just as a retention tool, but also it helps, I think, drive folks to be interested in joining our team, because that is explicit. And it's not sort of that that typical mantra of the customer's always always right.
Llu Mulvaney-Stanak:Well, and if people are doing this at work, and you imagine they're more empowered to do this in their daily lives, too. I mean, justice is ringing that bell that we were talking about. And when we're talking about white privilege, and you know, racist situations that happen, or or in we were, we were talking to a couple men about kind of like male culture, right, where it's like, you know, you can't be vulnerable, you can't take this risk and step up and say the thing that needs to be said, this is like, feels very much that same category of, alright, I know, my, my employer is gonna have my back, because the right thing has to be done right now. And I'm going to do it. And again, that trickle out, I'm hoping that like, okay, it's muscle memory at that point, right? If you do it at work, of course, you might be more likely to do it at home in the community.
Jessica Barquist:We started the conversation talking about HR policy, and you can write whatever HR policies you want, but at the end of the day that follow through and that accountability that you know, your employer is going to stand by that is really where the change happens, I think.
Anna Nasset:Yeah, I mean, I think one of the things I always try and train on and talk about is like the ripple effect, like each one of us is a pebble. And I mean, with Lawson's, it's a little bit different, because I do happen to live in the same community as them. But most of the time, I'm going out and working in communities where I'm not going to be there. And so I can go in and do my training. But I'm going to leave and go home, right. But I remember saying this with Lawson's, like, in this one unique situation, you are gonna see me around. But still, I don't work here. So it was really great, like, during our time of training with them, was just letting them have those conversations, and talk to each other to create the protocols and the systems that they wanted to understand, like what a manager would do if you go to them all of those things. And so that it was management, and, you know, it was everyone in the room together creating these, these ideas and these changes, and I thought that was really important. And then yes, to Llu's point, it does, it creates that ripple. And that ripple just keeps spreading in our lives. And it's just, it's all about keeping that conversation alive and approachable too.
Jessica Barquist:and I'm wondering if there, as you've been connected with them, you've seen any changes or maybe unexpected changes or benefits as a result of businesses taking on this work?
Anna Nasset:I think the biggest thing that I've seen has been the unlikely people who have stepped up the people that you wouldn't have thought would be the ones to step up and continue these conversations. Because I have done a lot of work in my community. And like I said, I do run into people. They're like, Oh, well, we had this situation happen, and this is what we did. And I'm like, really? eautiful people did that. Okay, I like this, like, that's where I'm starting to see change happen. And just, yeah, conversations have changed to just when I you know, run into people, they're like, Oh, can I ask you about this thing or? Okay, I have a friend that's in the situation. Can you point me towards a resource? We were normalizing the conversation of talking about gender based violence. And I think in normalizing it, we're opening it up for change. And we're opening it up for victims and survivors to get assistance. And that's one of my big things is like, the more hushed we are about these things. The more the more it's going to be hushed, right? But the more we can just talk about this openly and honestly, in a grocery store aisle, the more change we're going to see.
Jessica Barquist:Yeah, yeah. And giving folks the tools to navigate these really uncomfortable conversations and how that translates. I love the ripple effect image. But it's so easily translatable from your workplace into all of the other aspects of your life.Kelly, how about I know you jumped in at Lawson's, as they were already part of this process, but has there been any changes or impacts that you've noticed as a result of focusing on a violence free culture?
Kelly Putnam:Yeah, definitely. I actually, I just had my two year anniversary yesterday, which was so exciting. But again, this work they've been they've dove into it early. It's one of the things that drew me to them, actually, in particular, is just seeing this, walking the talk and investing in these aspects that really do create change within an organization. So a few ways that I would say it pops up. I think I mentioned a couple but just retention. I think that it creates this incredible sense of connectedness between our staff, that you wouldn't necessarily find if folks weren't as open and vocal about having these conversations. They literally have each other's backs, like Anna said, some of the trainings created opportunities for us to discuss, okay, what do you do if someone says this to you? Who do you go to? If you need a minute to like, gather yourself? How can you excuse yourself in a really covert and sort of comfortable way for our team members? I think also those stay interviews, again, it comes up, I'm lucky, I'm the one that gets to have those conversations. So I get to hear directly from our team, what it means to them to feel supported by their supervisors, we have a question on our annual survey that just says, Do you feel like your supervisor cares about you as a person? Right? I mean, do you feel like they see you beyond being an employee? And, again, I think that the answers we get to that say everything that we need to know, people feel supported, they feel seen, they feel heard. And again, it's not perfect, by no means I don't want to, I don't want to paint that picture. Because every company and every individual within companies has room for improvement. But I think having those metrics so that you can keep a sense and a good finger on the pulse is really important. Bringing those topics up proactively. It's it's hard to do, it makes everyone uncomfortable, sometimes myself included, and this is the space that I operate in. But I think approaching it with humility and opening the chance to say, Look, we're not perfect, and we want to be better. So let's find ways to do that, together, least in my experience, have been met with a really gracious and ungrateful response from the team. So yeah, there's a lot of good that comes of it and a lot of hard conversations to so I think those are still important to make that progress.
Llu Mulvaney-Stanak:Say somebody's listening to this conversation, and they're not the boss, they're not the owners. They know this needs to happen in their workplace in some sort of a way. I'm wondering, even it's either either at Lawson's or Anna in your work, like what recommendations would you have for staff of some employees or staff somewhere that just to kind of start that conversation internally? I'm just thinking about the folks who are not the ones that are decision makers already, how to even broach this conversation? And any tips that you would give to people who are like, this totally needs to happen to my place, I think they could do it, but what do I even say?
Anna Nasset:Well, I mean, I think partially, you just said it Llu, like I, you know, approaching and saying like, this is really awesome work that's being done, I think would be really cool. If we brought it here, I would say talking to some of your co workers to to get them on board. You know, sometimes it's helpful, because like we said, these are sensitive topics. And we may be very used to talking about them, because we do this in our work all the time. Right. But even Kelly said, sometimes it's uncomfortable. So I think sometimes it's nice to have some other co workers with you who maybe listen to this podcast or have looked at the Uplift sight, and we're like, Oh, hey, yeah, why don't we come together? And approach to this? You know, I think there can be that thing when you're going to a supervisor that they're like, Oh, well, is there a problem? Why do we have to do this? You know, they kind of come back. They can, they could come back with that. And so I think it's really just reframing in this way of like, hey, we see this as a really positive tool that we would like to bring in here.
Jessica Barquist:Kelly, I want to add just one thing before because I know you're gonna have some awesome things here. So about a year ago, when we were thinking about launching businesses uplift and what that could look like, we hired a marketing firm to do a bunch of focus groups and work with businesses here in Vermont, and they sampled a number of different businesses of all different sizes and stuff. And we heard heard over and over again that businesses were even hesitant to talk to us in a focus group, or talk about these issues more broadly, because they felt like talking about it publicly meant that they had an issue, or that there was some problem within their culture that needed to be fixed. And so I think there are these are two distinct conversations. One is the like, the proactive and one is the response. And I love that you dug right into the proactive side of things on it. And Kelly, I wanted to just kind of frame that out before I send it to you. Because when I told you that you had the best response.
Kelly Putnam:Oh, well, hopefully, it's what I'm about to say. Um, yeah, no, I just first off want to agree with everything on a brought up. And just sort of piggybacking off of that, I think it's so important for the team members, one way that I have found really helpful. As an HR person, I think folks can often get nervous to go to HR, it has this reputation, whether it's from watching the office, or whatever it like comes from, where folks are either thinking, nothing's gonna happen, or it's gonna be really intimidating. And it's scary to go to HR. So one thing that I love to do as an HR professional is sometimes if somebody says, Hey, can we have a meeting, I might offer to make it a walking meeting. Because if you're walking next to someone, it's it can create a environment that's much more comfortable for dialogue and candid dialogue, than like me sitting behind my desk and somebody sitting in a chair directly across from me, I have found like the walk and talk can be a really nice way for folks to connect, to dive into things again, and you can just kind of be looking wherever and having a casual conversation. And that new setting that's not necessarily an office and really serious and perhaps more rigid. I think if HR doesn't feel like a safe option, don't force it, everyone in the HR space can be really different. And that department at various companies can can have a different sort of root function, whether it's sort of looking out for the company or looking out for the employees, hopefully, it's both but again, businesses are also different. So I would recommend finding those that you are comfortable going to. Anna mentioned talking to coworkers getting some support in that way. That's a great idea. If you feel comfortable talking to your supervisor or another leader within the company who you think may really get where you're coming from and have a footing where they can make some some real change, that would be another great way to just start the conversation. One tool that we have here that I think just is probably what you're referring to is a platform called We Vow. So it's a harassment training platform in one aspect, but it also provides confidential and anonymous incident reporting features. So if someone doesn't feel comfortable speaking directly to someone, or they want to do it anonymously, this is just sort of another source where they can submit, not a claim, but just sort of an incident report that would then circle around to the appropriate folks. So that action can be taken on behalf of that. So I think again, it's like a training platform, it is providing this anonymous sort of third party channel for folks to give feedback. But when possible, I always encourage folks to kind of go directly to the source and bring forward those issues so that they can hopefully be resolved.
Jessica Barquist:So when I had said, brands were like, not okay with talking about this publicly, you looked so confused. You're like, I don't understand that, like why? Being proactive and saying that we are welcoming for everyone has been nothing but helpful for our business. And she was you said something like, I would never have thought that like that never would have occurred to me to think that way. And I just really loved that, like you were so shocked, that like addressing things proactively could be seen negatively. And so that that kind of framing I think is just so incredible, as we think about businesses, you know, not just for our employees who spend most of their waking hours at their workplace. But for folks who are engaging with businesses and their community to have that kind of a proactive stance of like, yeah, we're a community and we care about one another. And it's, it goes back to that question you were just talking about on your annual survey around like, do you feel like cared for as a whole human like, it's such a simple thing. And I think it's really unique for us to be asking those questions. So love that.
Kelly Putnam:I remember that moment. And we were sitting there with Karen Lawson. I mean, it's just that support is so critical and has such a wide ranging impact that really can't be overstated. And I think part of my shock too comes from the fact that I just feel like you not saying anything says something. So if you're if you're not saying anything, then what you're saying is also very clear. So why wouldn't you proactively, you know, go out and let people know where you stand as a company, when it comes to providing support for your your team members, as well as the public who would be visiting. So? Yeah, that was I do remember that moment, too.
Jessica Barquist:Yes, I love that. And all businesses should come join us as uplift vermont businesses, the way Lawson's has. But een thinking about survivors Anna or maybe somebody who is experiencing harm, having these conversations with your employers can feel really scary, because they hold your economic security in their hands. And so I'm wondering if you have any thoughts around like, how survivors can broach that or resources that we might want to share with folks, if they're in that situation?
Anna Nasset:I mean, I think for each person, it's so individual, and has to really be be handled very individually for for how they feel. If they feel like they can safely tell their boss or not, that they're going through something. If there's a safety concern for themselves at work, then they do need to tell their employer like, there's so many different levels to this right. And I think that, you know, also once again, we're looking at like Lawson's huge employment, right. But what about a company or business where it's just four or five people that work there, like how we have to look at this from everything and go, Okay, each person who is a victim or survivor, who's experiencing harm, is a very unique situation, and how, for those that are listening, that might be in that position, how you empower yourself and move forward is the correct way for you. And I think that, hopefully, even if it's just having one co worker that you can share these things with is so important. Because they they're going to know that this and where you know, if it's good to go talk to the boss, if it's not all of those different things, because they do have that economic fear. I remember that, knowing that so well. And it's really scary to know what to do. I was speaking for myself when I finally did come clean to my boss at the time through all of this was met with like such care and grace and love, but I was terrified. This is like big lumberjack guy. I worked for woodworker like a lumber company. And as their marketing director, and I, you know, like I said was the least likely person that I thought would be like, we've got you, girl. We've got you. You're one of us. What What can we do to protect you this and that. But one of the things that I did do ever since I started working at that Lumber Company was I sat with a bunch of like 60 year old men who are lumberjacks, right? So not always the most appropriate people. But what I would do is they had no idea what was going on behind my life. Like they had no clue why I ended up working there, why I closed my business, any of those things, right. But what I would do is just engage them in conversations around topics regarding gender based violence, or regarding different things I had read, regarding, you know, cases that I'd seen or movements that I'd seen. And I would just get these guys talking about this. And it was really interesting. It wasn't even necessarily conscious. I think it was very subconscious that I did that. But I think for me, it was an outlet to kind of slowly start to build that support for when I would finally come clean, and I would really need that support. So sometimes it's even just like, you know, if you're somebody who's experiencing harm, might be just talking about this campaign and be like, Wow, I heard about this thing that the state of Vermont is doing, and getting other people talking about it. Because that like we said, it starts to normalize that conversation. So when you are ready to disclose, you've got people who have a little bit more understanding than maybe they would have before.
Jessica Barquist:That's a great idea, kind of like dipping your toes in testing the waters to see where folks are at. I see that we're just at about time. So I want to start wrapping us up. Is there anything that either of you wanted to talk about that we haven't gotten a chance to connect on?
Kelly Putnam:One thing that I'm just really excited about the businesses Uplift Vermont aspect of it is businesses having these conversations outside of their own little bubble because these things are hard and they're, again, best practices change and new ideas may not be coming up through one particular organization, but if we could share it with somebody else, and they could adopt it, and it would have a positive effect. That's awesome. So I think I'm excited for like businesses connecting together to take this on in the future and I I'm just so appreciative of you guys sort of instigating those conversations and having a centralized location for resources and idea sharing and, and fun too, because that's part of it also.
Jessica Barquist:I'm gonna start with you, Kelly, what is your vision for a violence free future? And what is one thing that we can do right now? Maybe related to this conversation, maybe not to help us get there?
Kelly Putnam:That is a big question. I mean, I think in order to get there, it's going to have to touch so many different aspects of life, right? Like we're talking here a lot about the workplace and the big influence that that can have based on how many waking hours people are spending there. But it also has to go beyond that. Right? The businesses providing support, but also just support for one another, whether it's clubs and organizations outside of your working world or your home life. So my my hope is that these conversations happen or get started, I think that's the only way that we're going to be able to, to make that progress and tackle, tackle some of these issues that do plague our society, unfortunately. So that would probably be my vision, the first thing to do, again, it just start that conversation, just tell someone about this podcast, tell someone about this project that you heard about, or if someone else works in HR say, Oh, I heard this day interview component. How do you guys do that? Or have you ever thought about doing that? I think just planting the seeds and seeing where it leads you is probably the first best step. And not always the easiest. I again, I acknowledge that. So I think thanks to you all for creating such a safe space to have these conversations. And my hope is that this helps inspire that with anyone who's listening.
Jessica Barquist:Anna I'm not going to ask you that question.
Anna Nasset:Because my answer
Jessica Barquist:well, I know what your
Kelly Putnam:haha pros and cons to going first.
Jessica Barquist:But I am going to ask you the next question Anna, which is what is causing a revolution in your heart right now? Meaning something that you're feeling really excited or energized or hopeful about? And how could we maybe learn more about it. So if you have a, maybe a book recommendation, or other podcasts, I don't know, maybe you have some of those...
Anna Nasset:I might have some of those. You know, I mean, I will like do so shameless self promotion for a moment of that I just wrote a book that just came out. And I'm going to tie that into, like, what's creating a revolution in my heart. So I just wrote a book about my experience of being stalked for over a decade called Now I Speak. And I'm bringing that up, because the story that I experienced happened in small communities, small rural communities, and in the first community in Washington State, you can see a very different response to the crime that was happening to me, because I didn't have voice. And I didn't know how to reach out to those resources. And then the story comes here to Vermont with me where I moved. And here in Vermont, you can see how I, I started to immerse myself in this work, and to educate myself and started to do all of these things because of this little state, and feeling really supported and held. And that's really shifted my entire life's work into what we're doing now. And so I'm really excited to continue to bring this into community. And to just like tie this all back to Lawson's, I actually had my book launch there about a month ago. And, you know, they basically shut down the place to our customers, other than all the people that came, we had to do a lot of like pivots throughout the evening. But they were so committed to that work, that they did that we had this outpouring of people from the community, it was packed, it was really amazing. And I think that really is just a full moment of showing like, when we have these conversations, you have no idea whose life you're going to change me being one of them. And the work that we can continue to do together, whether it be a business individual, a community as a whole, and a state as a whole. And so I think when I think about like, everything that's really just singing in my heart right now is continuing this work, and continue to to bring it into our communities, and have these conversations. And you almost made me cry.
Jessica Barquist:I'm really glad you know, I asked the questions, I don't often get to answer them but if I were to answer this question, I think right now I would talk about your book launch too Anna because it was such a hopeful demonstration of community. like Lawson and your entire community like that, they didn't have to close down the tap room but to other folks because like they couldn't have fit other folks into that space because of how your community came out to support you. And I've had, you know, I've been having these conversations across the whole state and it's hard to get people to engage in this work and to just see such an outpouring of community support, willing to listen to the hard stuff, willing to be there. That made me feel so hopeful for our state. And...
Anna Nasset:Yeah, for sure and, and I will say this, there was an individual that was at that book reading who is a male in the community 50 Something I'm going to say. And I ran into them the next day. And he said to me, you know, afterwards, me and my sweetie, we went home when we made dinner. And I disclosed to her what happened to me as a child for the first time ever in my life. So that's the work we're doing right? Like that, right? There is so profound, how that ripple happens, to even allow someone to know, they're not as alone. So whether it's a poster campaign in your bathroom, bringing in training, any of those things, it's allowing people to know, we're just we're not as alone. And we're committed to creating change together.
Jessica Barquist:Wow, I love that. I gotta say, I thought this was going to be our most technical conversation Llu. I thought we were going to like, dig into HR and stuff. And I, you know, every conversation we've had, I've just ended up so surprised that every, maybe I shouldn't, it's not surprised. But like every conversation, we ended up back to connection and authentic conversation and community. And I just love, love, love that that's where we all ended up as well. So thank you so very much for sharing with us and for this beautiful conversation.
Anna Nasset:Thank you for trusting us with this conversation. I'm honored. Yeah, it's a big one.
Kelly Putnam:Thanks for having us.
Jessica Barquist:And a big thanks to you, our listeners for being with us today. We all have a role to play in creating a violence free VT. And there are simple things we can all do each and every day that make a big impact on changing our culture, and making it a place where all are able to thrive. You can find more information and notes from today's show on our website at VT network.org/uplift conversations. On our website. There's also a forum where you can share your ideas and thoughts with us about this episode or what you want to hear about next. We would love to hear from you.
Llu Mulvaney-Stanak:And if you enjoyed this conversation or learned something today, please give us five star ratings and share this with your friends and family members. Be sure to subscribe for more episodes and together we can uplift Vermont and create a violence free world where all people can thrive.