The Entrepreneurship & Innovation Studio
Something is happening in the Central Valley, and it’s been happening for some time. Enterprise. Entrepreneurship. Innovation. At the E&I Studio, you will hear stories as told by the people who built something. Stories of inspired leadership, inspiration and imagination called to action. Through intimate conversations, the people who make our region the special place it is will share their lived experiences and moments of brilliance. Their stories will challenge, inspire and move you beyond words. It’s the past, present and future of a region, of a community, told by the people who pursued their passions and built something extraordinary.
Co-produced by the Warrior Entrepreneurship and Innovation program and the Office of Strategic Communications and Marketing at Stanislaus State. The E&I Studio is edited and recorded in the KCSS studios on the campus of Stanislaus State.
The views expressed by guests on this podcast are not necessarily those of the University.
The Entrepreneurship & Innovation Studio
Prime Shine Car Wash: Insights from Norm Porges
Welcome to the first episode of the Entrepreneurship & Innovation Studio, where we explore the passion and purpose of entrepreneurs in our community. In this episode, we take a journey with Norm Porges, the retired visionary behind Prime Shine Car Wash who transformed the car wash industry in the Central Valley.
Listen as Norm shares his views on innovation, life-long learning and the role of family in business. A fascinating insight into balancing business, family, and community, this episode is a must-listen for all aspiring entrepreneurs and business enthusiasts.
Co-produced by the Warrior Entrepreneurship and Innovation program and the Office of Strategic Communications and Marketing at Stanislaus State. The E&I Studio is edited and recorded in the KCSS studios on the campus of Stanislaus State.
The views expressed by guests on this podcast are not necessarily those of the University.
Welcome to the Entrepreneurship and Innovation Studio, where we explore the passion and the purpose behind some of the amazing people in our community and, above all, their stories. I'm Dr. Pablo Paredes Romero and all my career, I've been fascinated by entrepreneurship and innovation from the moment an idea scribbled on a napkin, drawn on a tablet whiteboard and spoken out loud in the shower or in the car on the way to someone's 9 to 5. It's all about the work and the art behind the venture. Norm Porges is the retired visionary behind the Prime Shine and chain of car washes that graced the California's Central Valley for over two decades. He cuts a quiet and pensive character until he feels he has something to say. And when he does, you listen. It's a remarkable combination of stoicism and sincerity that comes through when he searches for the connective tissue for the space between occupation and fulfillment. The fit and finish of what it is to live a life well lived is intentional, compelling and always authentic. Norm’s New York, or at least to my ears, is there, and it's part of the charm. Of the man himself. Welcome, Norm. How are you doing? Doing great. Fun to be here. Fantastic. We're really happy to have you, sir. Through our talk, we're going to be exploring some of the areas related to entrepreneurship, the life of launch of an entrepreneur, the life of the small business owner. And we're going to touch on some of our guiding themes. We want to start with community. Tell me about the community in which you grew up. Born and raised in New York City, not New York City that you tourists think of with high buildings. But this is New York City in the suburbs. We were a town the furthest out in New York City to the next county, Nassau County, very, I would say blue collar, hard working people, very mix of German, Irish and a smattering of Jews. We were the fifth Jewish family into the neighborhood. Born in 1942, so 1942 to 46, 78. There was a lot of discrimination, so there was a lot of anti-Semitism. And I tell people comically, that I learned to run fast. But it was community, hard working, blue collar, very ethnic, mixed community. When do you feel that you still carry with you from that place? Certainly the my progressive attitude about ethnicity. We have to all work together and that's something we did as kids. If you're a good ballplayer, it doesn't matter what ethnicity you were. You're on the team and this street played that street. That street played the next street. That's how neighborhoods were in New York City. Bringing over from that, I you know, I'm very pro mixed communities. And I certainly understand the underdog position in the community. I always cheer for the underdog. I do. Typically, I do. I'm being an underdog myself, you know, So you get a sense of fields. And find that in the people that I meet, my travels in the underdog ethos, the spirit of being an underdog. People identify with it for different reasons. Sure. How do you feel that you identify most with the underdog? How or why? Actually, now that you ask the questions you've given, you've given me my own better questions. How anyway? Well, the how is easy, you know, being again of Jewish religion. And there's anti-Semitism widespread and unfortunately growing in this country. So you certainly get a sense and I'm aware of and not only that, I make a point to people who I meet, they know what my Jewish background is. I don't want to be embarrassed that they would say something to me as I have in my past. So I let them know who I am and just save any embarrassment. So I understand the underdog. The underdog oftentimes doesn't get a chance because he's an underdog. He's a different color or a different or whatever talks funny. You know, when I came to Modesto, I talk funny, I talk no New York ese. I used to go out to the farmers. And when I in the business, in my business life, not not Prime Shine, but prior to that, we'd go out to the farmers. And I jokingly was, So this is where milk comes. I thought it comes from Safeway before. I just thought it was. But typically in New York City, growing up, you don't think about the farms and the fields and whatever. When I see folks working in the field, that's the hardest job, one of the hardest jobs in the world. And I see that and I feel they're suffering and they're difficult lives. They have a very, very challenging work, very challenging life. How would you say that to the business community as you found it in the Central Valley then has evolved to what it is now? This was not my first stop after New York City, so I had 13 moves before I hit. 30. Before because I was in the corporate life. I was transferred around a lot. So between getting transferred and getting fired, I say successfully fired and those can be other subjects. We talk about part of my failures. So I hit here after Los Angeles. I was down in Los Angeles and came up to Modesto. This was the smallest community I've ever been to. I grew up in New York, graduated university, Denver, went to Kansas City, Chicago, Minneapolis, back to Chicago, L.A. and some parts in between. So this was the smallest community. What I saw was incredible opportunity, just incredible opportunity. There was a big, quote unquote, big city ideas that could be brought to this community and it would be brand new would be initial concepts to these people here. But old concepts like sells, prime showing, being the, you know, being a perfect example. There's nothing new that we did with Prime Shine other than Californiaize it. So I saw the concept, you know, there was nothing like exterior car washing in California. It was all at that time, 15 bucks, you know, get out of the car and back east people back east in New York, they don't have time to get out of the car, you know, wait the 30 minutes and it is 30 minutes and a flag to be waved, just didn't have time. Doesn't fit their lifestyle. Bam, bam, bam and out, whatever. And so there was nothing magic about what I did other than California. Is it bright, cheery, very different than the typical Midwestern or East Coast Express car wash, which is typically cinder block, dirty, greasy graffiti, barbed wire. Horrible. And that's why the industry, of course, got such a bad rap. And sometimes deservedly so. But we attempt to change all that and with logics that we have. That's really interesting when you talk about bringing the ideas from one place to another all together. In the time that you've been in Modesto, how have you seen it evolve, meaning the business community? Hey, I see a lot of more a lot more entrepreneurs, real shrimp, the guy selling melons or fresh fruit on a in a stand on a corner is entrepreneurial shit. You didn't see it back 20 years ago, 30 years ago, as much as we see it today. But if you go back in history and look at New York City, Lower East Side, New York City, when immigrants first came over, those streets were loaded with pushcarts selling fruits, vegetables. My grandfather did that. And so it's evolved. It's nothing new of someone being out of a corner selling their wares. I'm hopeful over time the community will catch up to what I think are so fabulous ideas that are being presented to create a better, more vibrant Stanislaus County community in terms of activities, in terms of clean it up, in terms of developing areas in downtown to make it residential, make sporting events. I think all those things are very, very positive. Unfortunately, the community, it just takes so long to turn the battleship around. What do you think is setting the tone and the pace for that? Now? I'm going to go back and say, why hasn't it? And I think the community generally speaking, generally speaking, the community is very conservative because they can't predict what next year is going to be. And so it's very fiscally conservative community, very much so. And so I think this that boils over to the way the is going to be run by their forced when you're forced to doing something off their rear ends because they are and so forth. So I think I think we're going to be forced into making some progressive moves. What do you feel what do you see that you feel is encouraging towards the vision to use the word? Well, and I'll throw out some some names. The Stanislaus Community Foundation is something that is incredibly productive, has great leadership, and Marion Cannon, who is in touch with other communities who have already gone the extra mile, the extra step. And she she, for one, is front frontrunner in making this a better community. I mean, there's other reasons to another. She's recruiting great people. When you have grassroots, you have the Porges family Foundation, you have the Boyette Foundation, you have others, Lynne DICKERSON involved. When you get those grassroots who are willing to put the money up for the studies to find out what direction, it's always been amazing to me that outsiders come to our community and they're blown away at what we have. And we in the community, they don't take advantage of it. And B think our community is is terrible. You know, in some respects it needs to get a lot better. But in so many respects, the opportunities are here and outsiders see that. What do you think leads to that sort of a sort of endemic way of identifying the community by the people in it that other people from the outside see differently? What do you think contributes to that? That's a good question, and I'm not sure I have the really great answer other than what our community as it grows up in our community. When the children grow up in this community, they see what it is. They see the trash in the streets, they see the charcoals in the roads, so they see all the negative. And that's just systemic. That just continues with that thought, that thought process. So we've got to break that cycle. What do you see it all going? Well, Being the optimist that I am, you know, I only see great stuff. It's not that we're on the bottom. We think we're on the bottom. We're not on the bottom, but we have a long way to go to get to the top. What would you say was your most powerful learning experience as a small business owner? Great question. I think I learned in the long run to empower employees and make them accountable. That's just boil it right down to it. We like to say that Prime Shine was employee centric. We firmly believed that by treating your employees the way they felt that they should be treated, they would treat the customers in the same fashion. At least we proved it true when we started that campaign of being employee centric. It took a year or so or two years for the ball to get rolling. We found surveys from our customers were so much better. Our business improved. So overall that was probably a highlight in our business. If you can recall, what was the tipping point that made you stop and say, Wait, there may be a change of direction in our future in terms of employee empowerment and accountability. Being honest with myself, it probably is. It was at the point that Evan took over when I allowed him to be creative himself. You know, he's of a different generation. In my generation. It's difficult to see what I what I observed, but it's difficult for that for us to do those things. Evan was able to a new generation was able to to make that happen. Over what has been your greatest future. That's an interesting answer. I think myself, I think we are our best teachers by understanding our failures, how to handle them, how to correct them, and go on from there. You have to be your own best teacher. There can't be a book. There can't be an individual that is going to put into practice what your life is all about. It has to be you. Sorry about that. I know you were expecting something else. No, not at all. That was. Has a wonderful, wonderful. I just was thinking of that. And, you know, and I think that's what it is. I can tell you, I'm my own best teacher. What? I failed out of school. I learned from that. All the failures I had. You learn from that. No one's teaching me those things. If someone taught it to me, I wouldn't do that in the first place. There's a term that it's made its way into popular culture and it's fairly popular now. You see a lot in academia as well. They see a lot in business. Lifelong learning. What is the term lifelong learning mean to you? Learning is a journey and the journey ends when you pass. You learn all the time. I don't care if it's crossword puzzles that you're doing, you're learning that mine has to be active. So we made a point of continuing our education, going to conventions. So there's a convention for everything and an associate of everything that we'd go to car wash conventions, which, by the way, are quite large. And there you share ideas and you go to meetings and keep yourself up to date. You have to do that. I don't care what you in, you got to stay up to date. And even technology, you know, if you're if you're not current today in technology, go find it. Places are free. We'll teach you that stuff. I ran big businesses bought and sold million dollar companies. But you know what the accountant did all the work. The h.r. People did all the work. You know, i was the front of it, and I negotiated it. And did what? But I didn't do the grunt work. Well, the biggest challenge to a small business owner getting started is how do you how do you do payroll? How do you do that? Profit and loss balance sheets and how do you do all that stuff? What I did is I had the time I learned. I just went online and learned what the hell a balance sheet Excel worksheet. You know. To your point, it's a different color and shape when it goes from the panel to my piano. Yeah, for sure. In the role of research, and especially in competitive analysis, what role would you say that research plays in the everyday life of a small business owner? It depends what you define research. I love statistics. Always did. I did was my first a in college was statistics. The shape and color of the prime Shine logo was from a statistical study of colors and shapes. Really? Because I you may want to get into that a little bit later, but my concept was when I said California eyes and exterior car washing experience. I wanted to market to women. That was my key market. I didn't want the macho trucks and the, you know, the radio booming all I wanted to market to women. Why? Because, A, they want to feel safe and secure. So we had glass on the sides. We had lots of color, bright color, yellow y, yellow, yellow. Because statistically it's warm and fuzzy and women appreciate yellow best. That means to them safety and warmth. And so we did. Yellow was our primary color and the rest of it was claustrophobic. I'm a little claustrophobic myself, so I want to liberate that. The darkness, the ugliness. So went glass on the sides, light coming in from the top. That's what we tried to do. So statistically, and that's research. I'll tell you another thing where our locations were, there's about three things you want in a location. So it's traffic, it's speed, and it's population. So I would sit there literally on our first real location. I tried to find where traffic accounts were and there weren't good quality traffic accounts that the city or county was able to provide. I'd sit there for an hour in the morning. I just took a clicker, counted cars as they go through. And you do that at four segments. And I had my averages for all the hours and whatever, and I had my stats in. I'd go back and do it a couple of times to make sure statistically it was close. That's how we developed number of car counts. We needed a certain amount of car counts going by our place to kind of make the economics work. I remember those clickers, those die. I still have it. Yeah, the little chrome ones, Right? Exactly. Exactly. Yeah. The sound. The sound wants you for that. You got the leather button that goes back to zero. Exactly what you do. What role. And I'm going to take us to a place where you can speak to a small business owner of a different generation, say the present one behind it. What role would you advise them that research should play in their everyday experience as a small business owner? I'd say don't go in it merely Willy. You know, you need some basis. You're going to produce a panel that's got numbers and statistics. So you have to do your research. One of the best places to do research and get those things is from a trade magazine. Every again, every profession has a trade association, and every trade association puts out their newsletter and every newsletter has or they have materials for the new business. If you just want to start a car wash, here's the materials we got for you. Why they want you to join the association. They want you to be part of it. I got so much information. Two sources. I got it. One is from trade magazines and going to trade shows. And the other one, I was very fortunate to have a friend in New York that owned one of these, again, typical dirty cinderblock, ugly Jersey City, New Jersey. And he had one of these, but he was willing to share with me a statistics, you know, what does it take? What does it take to cut a profit? How many cars, all that kind of stuff. And I caution people starting a business to go talk to. I'll say competitors, but they're not competitors. Once you get outside 100 miles. So go talk to people outside 100 miles, give them a call and say, this is what I'm trying to do. This is who I am. I'm trying to open up a taco shop or whatever, sewing machine repair. Tell me, how did you do it? Also, the county the city has wonderful libraries, wonderful consultants. Free doesn't cost you anything. Cities and county want you to start businesses. Why? To provide taxes and payroll and whatever. So they're very, very SPDC, the SBA. All of these organizations will help you in starting up your business and give you the statistics necessary. I do know how to do a spreadsheet, and it happened to be the Stanislaus County Economic Development, said Co at that time I sat down and a consultant, a fellow help me understand spreadsheets. I didn't know how to approach a bank. They helped me approach a bank. All of those thing and all that stuff is free. But you got to do it. As another fellow said during commencement, you can't sit around waiting for the phone to ring, get up, knock on their doors. So much wisdom and commencement speeches. It's a gift that keeps on giving. It's Take me back to the first time you looked at the people and businesses with whom you wanted to compete. I never thought of compete. I wasn't competing with anyone. First of all, we had a brand new idea for this community. Our biggest competition was you doing in your driveway. That was the biggest competition where we had no exterior, only car washes in town. We had full serve. I looked at that as a it's just a different business. You know that when you want to spend 45 minutes and 15 bucks and we're opening up a place for $3.95, stay in the car, boom, boom, boom to the outside. Free vacuums didn't come along till later, and there's a whole story there. But so we really never felt competition. And I also told the new business owner, don't worry about the competition. Do not you worry about what you're doing because you can't control anything they do. You know, when we first opened up, competition was on in radio ads about, you know, knocking us, in essence. And I say, never knock your competition. And if anything, praise them because it just takes on a whole different meaning. You know, when someone comes to your place, Oh, this person is a nice person or whatever, whatever they think, don't knock the competition. Don't worry about the competition. There is no competition. Make yourself heads and shoulders. So there is no competition. Put yourself above that, above everyone else. So there's no competition in power. Your your employees to do the thing. Give the customer the service. Then there's no competition. Don't worry about. It. It's similar to a CO. I think that's a michael Jordan quote, or at least it's related to Michael Jordan. We talked about competing with other players. It was always I compete with Michael Jordan yesterday. So, you know, and that's a that's a good way to look at it. I want to talk about innovation. What does the word innovation mean? Filling a void. There's a need for a product or service that's innovation. Maybe nothing necessarily new, but it may be new to that community or to that group. Your serve it so that's innovation. Prime Shine was exterior car was not new in the East Coast. That's what we had. We didn't have full service in California. All of a sudden you come along with exterior washing all brand. It looked like a great innovation. People come up to me and say, That's a great idea. I thought of it. It's another. So do you know how many people said I thought of it but didn't do it? So executing your thoughts is part of innovation. What should do you believe the word innovation mean to us here in the Central Valley? Think outside the box. We're very much in a box. Not we're not the only ones, by the way, but we're in a box. We've done it this way. So long. How many times have you heard that? We've done it this way so long, you know that it and it's good enough. Well, life isn't good enough, you know, you always have to be innovating. You always have to be inventing. You always have to be making it better. Speaking of the prime centers, his take me back there, their ideas and their innovations, what innovation that you and your team in Prime Shine made made you draw in voluntarily quicker breath like wow, that sort of innovation. The breath away question came at a point maybe we're open about a month. We had an article written about us and it was in the Modesto Bee front page of the business section, full color washing for less or some something of that nature. And there was a about us 395 whatever, and it didn't take about 3 hours after that paper came out that we started seeing lineups and then the lines were it around the street, literally. We knew at that point, you know, took a deep breath and I said, you know, I have to leave the job. I had I had a job as my source of income while we were building this thing. And I got to leave that and I got to do this full time. I didn't know what Prime Shine was going to be, and I almost thought it was going to be part time and I'll have a manager run it. But that wasn't the case. It was a full fledged business and then you throw your life at it. I like. That. You know, you throw life at it. I want to talk about application. What does the word application mean to you in the context of a business education? So I think a business education, you're you're learning the basics. What I like to say to folks when we're doing hiring, for instance, not hiring at the grassroots level, but at a managerial level, come in with a college degree. The college degree is nothing more than a indication that they had the fortitude and the wherewithal to stay in it for five years, to finish something and more importantly, do creative thinking. Creative thinking is where you're applying what you did at school. You apply to everyday business life, creative thinking, how to solve a problem. All it is, it doesn't matter what course whether you took any business courses or not. Evan didn't take any business courses when he came to work. We started teaching him or you started learning about finance balance sheets that came to him because we took him to a lot all the meetings that so that he'd start learning those things. But an arts major, we love reading and writing. We love for them to be able to clearly communicate. That was probably the utmost in our business. It was communicate and we also hired attitude. So you don't go to school for an attitude. There's no course in attitude. So we hired attitude. Would that mean we went? We did lots of different things to test people's attitudes. One was there would be a panel of three of our managers and the employee whatever, and this poor individual has two faces, you know, trying to get a job. If he didn't smile three times during that interview, he was not a candidate for primary. There was a metric. There was a metrics, statistical, but literally, you know, if if they didn't, it's not the person we need because our mantra to our employees, I used to preach to them all, We want you to do so with a customer. Say please thank you a smile and mean it. That's all we want to do. You could do that if you can get your employees to do that. There's no competition. The service levels were so poor here in Modesto when I came here. They still are poor. I don't know. You could probably ask me a question. Why do you think you know? Why do you think? Well, you know, I think the educational levels of the general population and in Modesto, in a Stanislaus County, is probably not as high as we'd like it. And so communication skills are poor. A lot of them are first first time, you know, immigrants from somewhere, families still speaking the foreign language. So the communication skills in English are probably not good. So there were tremendous opportunities. That's how I saw it, that the service levels were so poor here that if we could teach our employees to say, please, thank you, smile and mean it, we'd be way ahead. What would our students here at Stansted be best served to? No one applying what they learn here with us to where they're going? Well, it goes back to communications. That's where the skill levels are different. That's where they differentiate. Mary Jones and Carol Kelly, they're interviewing. It's communication one on one communication. And, you know, you get that by being out, out and about. You know, not everyone has a personality. If you don't have that personality and be an accountant. We got high school. Class there, movies kind of, you know, when, you know, we were just I was just at lunch with them and we you know, we talked about an accountant was dry. I have a major in accounting. I couldn't see myself doing that because I'm much more outgoing and I couldn't see myself sitting at the desk. But I do have a degree, a minor in accounting. Get out and about your students even before they graduate, or to be very much involved in the community one way or the other. That's how they get and hone the skills of communication skills. I know I go through, you know, for for scholarship. I go through scholarship applications and there's probably 20 of them. And there's a section in there about community. You can tell the folks that are involved in their community how they're heads and shoulders above others that are not involved. The community. Now, I know a lot of them say, well, we don't have time and I got this and I got that. No one has time. I tell you, think you're busy. You want to hear my schedule? No, I don't want to go Look. Ask not. Why would you want everybody's schedule? We're all busy, but you put it in priority and priority number one. I'd say you better be out and about. Be involved in the community. Church is a great place to start. That's fine. But I'm talking the general population, not church, because churches provide a certain security that may not be reality when you get outside that that environment, but get yourself involved to get yourself honing those skills. It'll put you way ahead of everyone else. Chambers of Commerce. Chamber of Commerce or Junior Chamber of Commerce. We, by the way, at Prime Shine required. Our managers require them to be community down. They could choose what they wanted to do outside of church. What mattered is their giving back to community, honing their skills. And by the way, people want to do business with people they know and like. And they're going to they're going to be networking and you're going to hear that a thousand times for me is network, because networking is key to the new business owner. Who is Norm Burgess. Did not tell you enough. That other stuff. Norm Porch is probably pretty complex. I'd like to say I'm simple. I think simple. I like outlines and I you know, I let my mind works, organize, but I think my self is pretty complex. I do like the simplifying workload. I was an efficiency expert, quote unquote expert when I worked in big corporations. That was part of my job. The workload more efficient by my mental nature. I like efficiency. I don't like long carried on speeches. I don't think anyone could sit there for more than 5 minutes or 4 minutes in a speech and understand I don't like company models or philosophies that are two paragraphs long. If I asked you what's the mission of Cal State University, you might give me a little what you think. But here it's written out on a wall someplace. Sure. We like to keep it simple. What? I know of your story. The public version. The front facing is remarkable. I want to go back to Norm. Before Norm knew who Norm was. Young. Norm, if you want to call it that. What was he like? He was shy. I had no social skills in terms of male, female, women's scared the death out of me. Never learned to dance. That meant that to hold a girl. You know. Or touch her or, you know, I was active in scouting right through right through high school to college for one reason is it didn't involve social activities with women. So I was very shy, but outgoing and other I'm as president of band and orchestra. You can't be shy. I suppose I had leadership skills. I don't know why or how. President of band and orchestra. You know, I was a self-taught musician. Real. What do you play? What do you think? What do I look? I'm going to go say. I'm going to say piano comes to mind. No. No, not even close. Okay. So I've got archery and piano and bowling. So I played the tuba. The tuba, the tuba. And a self-taught teacher myself. And we had a music teacher who I loved, Julie shaped my life in a lot of ways. Down the basement of the high school, the band room was orchestra music room, had a little room in the back that used to be a bathroom. They took out the stall, take out, took out the toilets, but they had the stalls. So I would bring a chair in and the next guy would have a trumpet, you know, And you sit in there and you're, you know, you're learned the notes and everything, right? So I became accomplished, relatively accomplished in that. Again, self-taught made the New York City High School Orchestra, which was quite an accomplishment with all these. Believe me, I probably didn't belong there. But how many to present to Tubas? In the New York City High School Orchestra, I soloed in my senior year at the spring concert. Asleep in the deep was the music, and my teacher says, You know, if you'd like, let's let's put you as a soloist for the spring concert in your senior year. And I conducted graduation for high school. I conducted the orchestra with the customary marches and whatever. So it was I had a fascinating career. Now that I know you're a musician, I have to ask you, the musician question. The quintessential why the tuba? They didn't have enough trombones, but there wasn't enough trombones. That's really what I wanted to play. But no, they were all taken. Sorry, but we do have, you know, tubas. Where would you say that that norm or how did that norm see Norm Now, what was his vision then of what you are now? Well, that norm then would would hardly understand or know the norm that there is today in terms of accomplishments. You know, I was a run of the mill, a poor student, run of the mill kind of kid, other then again, you know, there's this dichotomy here. I was president of this, but really I was running in the mill and didn't go around in social circles around, for one, getting this honorary doctorate degree out of the question. The old norm, which, you know, Norm from years ago was like, what, are you kidding? Yeah, there's all these these things out of the question. But I've been blessed with and fortunate to have received that and several other awards which are thank you for accomplishments that I've achieved, not necessarily always by myself. To Evan was involved and other members of our staff always involved. But that's what the old norm would be. Or the the original nor the young norm would be surprised and I'm sure pleased. Who do you remember from your earliest allies, supporters, employees, mentors? I had a lot of mentors over the years. I could easily make friends. I liked making friends, and that's part of the networking. So I had a lot of friends and a lot of bosses were friends of mine. And they all, one way or another, encouraged me. My parents certainly were in that category of and because my mother in particular, she was a go getter. My father was an educator, a teacher in the New York City school system in vocational school system that unfortunately go by the wayside. That was a horrible mistake or turn that we made doing away with the vocational school systems. It's my thought that today that a young person coming out of high school, if they're not college material or don't want to go to college, they don't have a lot of choices. They can flip hamburgers, they can go into the military or they can join a gang. And so, you know, I think doing away with getting those folks trained in HPC, electronics, plumbing, you name it. So we as are Porges family Foundation, are very supportive of those systems that will help widen the opportunity for those kids who don't have to go, who don't want to go to college to excel in life. What would Norm now say to start a conversation with Norm then? I probably have to use an expletive, but I will do that. It's an adult show. So he probably say, You know, I'm very proud of you and what you've accomplished kind of had you get there. And I probably have to answer that and I'd answer it. I am not necessarily I'm more a go getter now than I was back when really I was much more of a thoughtful person in terms of analyzing and applying statistical and that kind of thing. So I really wasn't outgoing, believe it or not. I think my failures pushed me into this direction as a must. There was a point at which I think it was after the third time I was fired from my work and I want to make a point. The three times I was terminated was not for cause, but I was really a bad fit in the corporate scene. I'm not a good corporate citizen, but it took me 20 some years to figure it out. I was 48 years old when I started. Primarily if it wasn't for those failures of pushing me into things that I had to do because I had a family, you got to provide a living. And it forced me into rethinking what is the direction I'm going into. Why am I doing that? I'm banging my head against the wall. I go from one corp corporation to another corporation. What am I doing? And so it forced me into thinking what my life journey was all about. Prohibition, the name, what inspired it? Well, there's a lot of interesting stories with that. So I already told you the yellow. I also will tell you that it's yellow, magenta and blue Cub Scout colors, Warm, fuzzy marketing to women, Warm fuzzy Cub Scout colors, Prime shine. I still have a piece of paper that I was writing down all kinds of name. I do my best thinking when either I'm shaving or I exercise. So one of those two things that I remember Zackie Farms, large poultry producer, and their tagline was Zach Farms, Prime California Poultry. That was the tagline There is no such thing as prime chickens. Poultry is not great at prime beef is, but poultry is it It's graded a the you know whatever. So I'm thinking prime prime and my brain works in rhymes. It just does obviously shine comes up with prime and prime Shine. wrote it down and there were all kinds. It was Stormin Norman. Storm and I. Was high on the list. That's great. It would have been named Stormin Norman, but if it weren't for a guy by the weatherman up in Sacramento at that time that just got arrested for child molestation. And he was Stormin Norman, He was Norman or whoever, but he was Stormin Norman. I didn't know that. I just recently Guy I didn't know that. And they said, Well, I'll scratch that sucker. You know, that's not going to work. Prime Shine When I tested it on people, which is, by the way, statistics and research to test these things out on your neighbor. Mr. Neighbor, would you buy this if I were selling it? Simple. You get a lot of feedback. So Prime showing the feedback I got, I got mostly negative. It apparently implied that, you know, a guy shining shoes would be a prime shining. I don't know. That's the feedback I was getting, but I liked it way much. We had his prime shine express. Evan came along and changed it, changed a logo. It's the only first, first and only change we ever made was a little bit of the colors, said Prime shine car wash to identify what are we and not express. Because all of a sudden we had a lot of copycats in California. Along came express car washing and so we did want to be identified with Prime Shine Express, which is what I originally had pulled that out, put in prime shine car wash. What do you feel that the name Prime Shine and its reputation in the community? What did it come to mean? You know, in this community, Prime Shine was a friendly place, a place to go and go in with a dirty car, happy place, come out with a clean one, happy. It was a great business, loved it instantly. Yes. Gratification. Come in dirty a minute later, happy. So not only that, they give you a dog, they give you a dog. Biscuits. Dog biscuits. Yeah. And they give you the wishy washy to do the inside of the car. And by the way, they now are doing free vacuums. Can you believe that? That we of course got ingrained in every community that we had our wash, we got very ingrained into the culture, the arts, the education of all those communities. We give it out. I don't know how many millions of dollars in donation over the year for car washes is car washes to go work. We give that to an organization and they can sell it by hand about whatever, you know, That's what we we did. We did a lot of cooperative advertising. Radio stations came to us and Sunny one or two was one of our champions. Early on. They would do a sunny one on Tuesday. So on Tuesday to give away something, well, they started giving away car washes. We'd give them coupons, call in this number, such as, you know, the listeners and you'll get a free car wash and boom, boom, boom. We did a trade with them. Give us the free advertising. Give us a 32nd spot, give you a car wash. And so that guerilla marketing is what we did nonstop. You know, Evan haven't really had a great job. He came on with some marketing expertise that was terrific. And he did a lot of the grunt work early on, you know, with associations that I had getting going. But about five years, I think Evan started he became general manager and he started doing some of his own things. Adversity, being on the ropes. It's all part of the story. Take me back to the first moment that you had the towel in hand. If you could describe the scene, the where, the why in the hell of that. So I had a manager and I you know, I would go to work because I had a job. My boss knew that it was going to be temporary, what he knew what I was doing. So there was no secrets. I said, you know, I'll give it a year. Probably going to be leaving. So I didn't do very much towels and matter of fact, know what you don't know and then hire the best, find the best that can do it for you. I'm not very I can talk the game, but I'm not very good at smiling for customer. At customer. Okay. It's not my it's not my forte. My forte is back of the house counting finance. Your name Evan. So much better in the front of house. And so there was a point in time we wrote out job description for ourselves so we weren't stepping on one another's feet. He took care of the front of the house and I was taking care of the back of the house, so I rarely had a towel in my hand. I are not of the personality that was able to handle a lot of customer pressure, so I just stayed away from that. I don't know if that answers your question exactly. I have had I can remember I was at the wash one day. It was raining and when we first opened, you know, you have a rainy day in the car wash. You know, no one comes in when it's raining and the car wash industry, you shut the place down. Well, I shut it down. So I'm out there by myself. As you say, rag and hand was, but okay. And it was raining and in comes a gal customer was I recognize. I said what are you doing Which just cars dirty okay makes sense to me. So I wash the car right. Then all of a sudden the sun came out, then five carjacking and then ten cars. Now all of a sudden that's lined up to the street. I'm there by myself. I can't get to a phone to call anyone. And I. I'm going nuts, right that in there. I said, I got to get myself off the front line. Does not work for me. Let me find someone who knows what they're doing. Were you ever ready to throw in the towel? Never. When we were running the business, we did throw in the towel and we threw in the towel When we sold the business and went on to something else, we threw in the towel not because we disliked the business. We love business, not because we weren't making a profit. We're making a healthy profit. But the labor laws allow some ruthless attorneys to justify capitalize on things like the handicap number. There was a lawyer that was hitting a whole bunch of people, suing them as small business because the lines were paint it right, You know, they didn't follow the law. Exactly. And we likewise, the the labor law is so complicated. We had some shortcomings in what we were doing. For instance, a check payroll check by law says you have to have the street address or we didn't. We had a P.O. box. We didn't didn't realize it. It would have been very simple for someone to say, put your street address, no problem. Sure. But we didn't get that. We got a suit, we got a class action suit that every check that went out for the past three years from every employee got dinged was a penalty everyone enjoyed and we ended up paying a, you know, seven figure number once you get beyond 1 to 3 employees. But once you get we had 250 employees, once you get to that size, unscrupulous lawyers or taken advantage of it, know that you're not going to pay that you know so it's extortion. They'll take you to court and instead of going, you know, maybe going to jury trial or whatever and paying X, you're willing to settle for Y and who benefits but that the police don't care, but that that attorney benefits. It's not a good it's not a good scene. So we got hit with one of those. We got hit with a couple and some other lawsuits. The law is not in favor of the small business person. The slip and fall, you name it. All these things did not in favor all these billboards with, you know, injury lawyers call us. They're not there because there's no business there, because the business is incredible. It's wildly challenging. So we threw in the towel on that deal and the timing was right. So throwing in the towel, we would have gone on. I think we would continue to grow internally in the marketplace. At the same time, there was consolidation and Wall Street discovered car wash. What I mean by that is large consolidate large investment bankers found out that car washing is basically Amazon proof and there aren't a lot of industries that you can say that heavy cash and you know so there's not a lot of receivables and not a lot of inventory. Car washes were wildly sought after. So we felt between what's going on in the labor front and what's going on and the legal front and a feeding frenzy going on by Wall Street, timing was right. What role has family played throughout your journey and how did it evolve? My first employee was my son in law. After about three years, that didn't work out, so obviously it was very difficult. That's the bad side. That's the negative side is someone said, Would you hire family? And that question comes up often, Would you hire a family? Because you understand if it goes bad, it really goes bad. On the other hand, take Evan. If it really goes good, it could really go good. My philosophy was I was able to separate family. I can do that. It's not easy. It's not without pain, but I can separate. I also say in terms of your family, your family has to understand what what you're going to go into. Go through. Prime Shine was my mistress, Prime. She had to share my time with my family. I said, everyone, when they start talking about family comes first. I understand what they say philosophically, but if you're a small business owner, unless the business is successful, your home life isn't going to be successful. So it's very important that you treat that mistress properly and your spouse or whoever understands you have a mistress. And it's, you know, it's the way it has to be. My role on that score, What role did spousal support play throughout your journey? Well, it just follows she has to understand you're going to have a mistress and you know, and there you go. They have to understand the challenges that you're going to be faced. And either they can join you. There's a lot of husband, wife, but I wouldn't personally recommend it. I personally wouldn't do it and didn't do it. But there are successful husband wife teams. They want to join them. So, you know, they understand the challenges that you're taking it's a tough deal. It's not easy. It's a tough, tough gig. Take me back with you to the moment you saw the light, the spark that would eventually become Evan's individual character and brilliance. How did it feel as a business partner? How did it feel as a father? Fantastic and sensational who could be not pleased with seeing their son daughter excel in an opportunity that you gave them and they grabbed on to the brass ring? We worked very well as a partnership. They don't always work out well. We know plenty of instances where it doesn't, but we know few where it does go and it does. It works out great and it's fun. What does the word leadership mean? Do respect above all, respect respecting that an individual that's making clear decisions, one who you can follow, want to follow, lay over your body for him or her. And I've had both hims and hers as being great leaders. But respect certainly it is the encompassing word. What do you think makes a good leader? Honesty, I think honesty above anything else, a good leader needs to tune you in to the pitfalls that may lay ahead from their leadership. Who is the leader who impressed Norm the most in his early years and why? Martin Luther King certainly was one of my champions, along with John Kennedy back in my in my they had incredible leadership skills, absolutely incredible leadership skills, both oratory and actions. Skills. I got to say that there are probably others, but I can remember when the Cuban Missile Crisis. So we're talking 1960. I was ready to join. My mother begged me not to join whatever Army, Navy. I was ready. You know, there's a leader. I'm ready to die for this gentleman that says we got to protect ourselves. Who was your hero growing up? The Lone Ranger. At. Hey, Head to pistols in a fur, fur holsters and. In the Corps mask. He had. He had Tonto. Of course. And kids, Kemosabe. Kimmie. Sorry. Who is it now? I think my son is a hero to me and a lot of friends and my wife who's put up with me over all these years, you know, got to give her a medal. He's a hero. And take it to Stan State. How did your relationship with Stan State again? So I don't know how it originally Originally, I was asked to be on the School of Business Advisory Board. So that led then to me being on the foundation board and was president from 2000 to 2001 when Dr. Marvelyn Hughes was here and Dr. Walt was strong. It was a hell of a team. We had board meetings that were fun. We enjoyed being with one another, fundraising. That was fun. We had board board members that enjoyed the company of one another. So it was a great relationship. When you think of Stan State what’s the first thing that comes to your mind. A diamond in the rough. When I first came here, when Turkey first came in town, by the way, for those of you who are listening, Turkey Tech was a common name of what is now Cal State University Stanislaus. When it first came into town. The fact that it was placed in Turlock was a big rift with the people from Modesto. I think that rift is long eroded. But when I came onto the board, it still existed. This rift, Dr. Hughes and Dr. and Dr. Strong and the board were able to get an Encompass the Modesto community into Cal State. I look at as a diamond in the rough. You've got a university down the road from you who can provide jobs and people and statistics and research, you name it. You got to give them, you know, embrace them. It was very difficult to get the folks down there to embrace the university. I think we've come a long way, but we have a long way to go. The Warrior entrepreneurship and Innovation Initiative. You knew this was coming. What do you see for it and its place in the region going forward? You recognize after this conversation, I'm, you know, very big on entrepreneurial shit. And I'll tell you why I told you I was a bad fit for the corporate scene. It took me 20. It's almost 30 years to see that. And I'd like to educate those students out there that says Google may sound pretty fancy. Microsoft not going to work for them is awesome when they talk to their friends versus I'm going to work for Prime Shine car wash. So it sounds intriguing, but that Google and Microsoft and all the other Alphabet's your only secure as a day your boss likes you. Did that. Your boss doesn't like you, you're out of there. So it's not very secure and the boss sometimes doesn't have any say so in the matter. Anyway. They may disband the department or whatever. Going to work for a small business where you get to know the family? Probably the family not necessarily get to know the owners of the small business. You start having a personal rapport, he starts. He or she sees your value and wants to keep you around much more secure than that I went through that. I went through it and found very late in life 48 that most security is entrepreneurial. Now there are some misconceptions and you've got to be very, very clear to to our students that are listening. Their life is not their own. They think it is, but I can do it. I don't have to. No one's telling me when to be. Well, let me tell you something. I'll tell you tells you to be there. The customer, if you're going to be successful, you have to appeal to the customer's needs, not your needs, the customer's need. So there's a misconception out there that you start your own business. Your your life is your own far from the truth of anything. Going to work for Microsoft 9 to 5, then you may have your own life. I just wanted to educate people about the they have to look at themselves and say, Am I the right person for that corporate job? Or is it better that I start my own business? Not everyone is designed to start their own business. Make sure you understand that not everyone can do that. No one has a desire to do it. And then 9 to 5 job works great and I'm not pooh poohing it. I'm just saying there's other options. And the Warrior Initiative allows students to explore other alternatives. And hopefully we we can achieve that. Lightning round random associations. And you know the drill. I'll say a word, give me a word back choices. I think I just answered it. It's a vocational choices vision. Get out of the box. Mission needs to be clear and concise. Passion. You got to have it in anything to be successful. Commitment, fully. Value. It's not about money, it's about value. Startup Tough road ahead. Great. If you make it leads to great success or failure. We're all part of it. It's learning from. Innovation. Filling a void. Entrepreneurship. Great option. Strategy. Got to have one creativity fill a void design. I think of graphics logo friend. The best. Family. Got to be supportive. Legacy. I hope I go down with one the right one. And now we come to this segment. We'll be here too for the 11. What is your favorite part of starting something new? For me, it's the challenge I'm project or in it strategize. There's a start. Here's what we want to accomplish. What is your least favorite part of starting something new? The naysayers. What interests you the most? Socializing? What interests you the least? Listening to naysayers. This is a radio station after all. What music, artist, genre or song reminds you most of your early days in entrepreneurship. So I loved Yanni and New Age. Yanni and New Age. And so I in fact, we had a Yanni segment of a Yanni song for our radio theme. For theme music, A new Age Music is freedom in Cause in all different, different directions. So. So different from the very compartmentalized accounting statistic. Oh, sorry you picked up on that. What? Food or beverage reminds you most of your memories of your first startup? The only beverage that really makes any sense is wine. White or red. I am partial to Chardonnay, as in every day. But boy, bring me a great red. And and by the way, life is too short to drink bad wine. You know, it is no difference in your business philosophy and building a home or whatever. Do it right the first time. Buy that. Why it Why pour it out or not enjoy it. Why it is for enjoyment. Food is enjoyable. You don't do it right? And then what profession non entrepreneurial do you admire the most? This may be a surprise to you, but you know. Give me a a dishwasher or the domestic. Hmm. Those people work awfully hard, get little recognition, they're underdogs. And, you know, we got to give them credit. Any work, by the way, any work, you got to honor any work. And I do that. You take the folks that are picking in the fields, they get little credit and perform a fabulous function. What job prior to entrepreneurship did you like the most and why? I actually going through school, through college in Denver, I work for a record distributor. So a record history that for you folks today vinyls we're talking vinyl's. Acolyte. Vinyl. This matters. I sold out of a record distributorship and we had a blast. You know, it was just fun was it's a fun industry, show biz, small show biz. And so I had a lot of fun doing that, going through school. What job prior to entrepreneurship did you dislike the most and why? So when I failed at Denver University the first year I went back to New York, Queens College, but I had a job stocking shelves in a drugstore and it took me into the bowels of an old, old drugstore where sewer pipes were running through and leaking in. I just said, I get I got to get out of there. It's the shortest job I ever had. Not proud of it. I came to work in the morning and left at lunch, and that's what I told them. I told the guy, you know, I told my boss and he said, Well, I don't, you know, okay. If heaven exists, what would you like to hear God say when you arrive at the pearly gates? Thank you for playing here. I think we have a spot for you immediately thereafter. What idea or innovation would you like to pitch him or her? They it with the universe as your marketplace. I'd say let's make peace. Let's rid ourselves of all the autocrats in the world and educate people. Norm, I want to thank you for taking the time to speak with us today. My pleasure. Always a pleasure Talking to students. Thanks for listening to this episode of the Entrepreneurship and Innovation Studio. This podcast is part of the Warrior Entrepreneurship and Innovation Program, affectionately known as the We Are series is recorded on the campus of Stanislaus State at the KCSS radio station and produced by Frankie Tovar. Following us, Subscribe on your favorite podcasting platform. I'm Dr. Paul Laboratories. Romero wishing me the best of everything. Always.