Devil's Street to Harvard: Perseverance and Gratitude with Emmanuel Escamilla

Emmanuel Escamilla is an entrepreneur with an intriguing blend of vision and zeal. The chairman of Debrief and former executive director of Codex, Emmanuel is a cerebral and empathic servant-leader who once rode a bicycle across the country. Everything he does is a testament to his drive and fortitude, a byproduct of humble beginnings growing up in south Modesto before attending UC Berkeley and Harvard University. His support of underserved communities is a brilliant example of social entrepreneurship in its most eloquent expression.

On this episode of the E&I Studio, Dr. Pablo Paredes Romero and Emmanuel talk about his upbringing on “Devil’s Street” and how his sense of community informed his entrepreneurial endeavors later in life. Emphasizing the ripple effect, Emmanuel discusses how the ethos of entrepreneurial innovations lies in serving those who are less privileged and introducing them to the power of technology as a tool for personal advancement. The pair shed light on the emerging economic state of the Central Valley and the importance of home-grown, passion-driven companies when it comes to the region's future.

Co-produced by the Warrior Entrepreneurship and Innovation program and the Office of Strategic Communications and Marketing at Stanislaus State. The E&I Studio is edited and recorded in the KCSS studios on the campus of Stanislaus State. 
The views expressed by guests on this podcast are not necessarily those of the University. 

Co-produced by the Warrior Entrepreneurship and Innovation program and the Office of Strategic Communications and Marketing at Stanislaus State. The E&I Studio is edited and recorded in the KCSS studios on the campus of Stanislaus State.
The views expressed by guests on this podcast are not necessarily those of the University.

Chapters

• 16:17 Lifelong Learning and the Importance of Being Present
• 18:33 Serving the Community and Understanding Power Dynamics
• 21:05 Codex - Bringing Exposure to Children
• 24:26 Career and legacy
• 33:43 The Role of Research for a Community Servant
• 41:44 The Joy of Collaboration
• 49:26 Intersection of Innovation and Belief
• 58:50 Overcoming Academic Struggles
• 1:07:34 Evolution of Stan State
• 1:18:36 Personal Life and Motivations of Emmanuel Escamilla
• 1:30:16 Reflections on the Intersection of Life, Work, and Art
• 1:35:20 Complete the Sentence
• 1:40:52 The 11

Transcript

1:52

Welcome to the entrepreneurship and innovation studio, where we explore the passion and the purpose behind some of the amazing people in our community and above all, their stories. I'm Dr. Pablo Paredes Romero. In all my career, I've been fascinated by entrepreneurship and innovation from the moment an idea is scribbled on a napkin, drawn on a tablet, whiteboarded, spoken out loud in the shower, in the car on the way to someone's nine to five, it's all about the work and the art behind the venture. Emmanuel Escamilla is a curious blend of visionary entrepreneur with a missionary zeal. The chairman of Debrief and former executive director of Codex, Emmanuel is a cerebral and empathic servant leader who once actually rode a bicycle across the country. Just because to be in his presence is to realize that there are just some people more driven than you will ever be. That at the heart of it all, the lifeblood of everything he does. His service to his community through service to underserved communities, is a brilliant example of social entrepreneurship in its most eloquent expression. Welcome back to the entrepreneurship and innovation Studio, where we are with our guest, Emmanuel Escamilla. Welcome. It's a pleasure. I appreciate it. On the topic of community, tell me about the community in which you grew up. I was born in Sacramento, but moved to Modesto when I was around eleven. And for me, the community that I grew up in was in south Modesto. Me and my mother lived was, she's always was a single mom, and my community was the kids who lived around my neighborhood. I played baseball, so we played a lot of wiffleball, played a lot of soccer and whatnot. So for me, I don't have any brothers or sisters. And for me, community has always been something that has been developed around me and something that I've always longed know. Being in Sacramento with my mom, us two on our know, not having family know your friends and the people around you become those who you confide and interest in. So for me, community has always been important, but always been something that has needed to be developed. What from South Modesto would you say is imprinted in your dna? I think one of the misconceptions of South Modesto is that it's a dangerous place that it's a place that you kind of just drive through across on the freeway. If anything, you go to South Modesto for the food, right? But for me, it's the people we grew up, or I grew up. And my mom lived on a really rough street in south Modesto, and a lot of the people there are marginalized right there. They use drugs. They are streetwalkers. They deal drugs. They do x, y and z. Society turns a blind eye to them. Right. For me, I think what's imprinted on my dna is the fact that some of the best people that I've ever met in my life lived on that street and had issues that I think people, in most part, would potentially look down on or think of them as a burden. Right. But for me, what's imprinted on my dna is just the kindness. They'd give you the shirt off their back multiple times. They were there to help me out. I was hungry. They gave me food, needed a ride. They gave me a ride. So I'll never forget some people on that road, but also in Southland as a whole, just great people there. The community spirit, the community vibe there. Was it something that helped, do you feel, inform your future work? Was it imprinted from that moment? Do you? You know, I think the most beautiful part of living in Southside was how everybody, for the most part, looked out for each other. Right? Like they weren't rich, everyone was struggling for a dollar, but what they could give, they would. And if they had more than enough, they'd invite people to the table, right. For me, that I think is one of the purest forms of community is being able to break bread, being able to share. So, yeah, it's informed my passion for community related work, volunteerism, a company that I started that's really highly community focused. And it's definitely become, like, the ethos of how I view the impact I want to make in the world. So it's impossible to take. You can take the boy out of the neighborhood. You can't take the neighbor. No, you can't. No. I could be exposed to many things, and I have been exposed to a lot of beautiful things and a lot of bad things. But the community is deeply rooted in my heart. It's interesting because I'm very fortunate in the regard that I get to hear the stories of my students here at Sten State. And so much of it starts with, I want to go see the world and go out and explore, and that's wonderful. Right. But it seems to me, if I'm correct, that you felt this is something I have to do, there is a return. Was it always that way? Yeah, there was always something there for some reason. And many times there was, like, a frustration because there's a lot of opportunity outside of this area. Right. Career wise, financially, could do a lot out of modesto. Living in a big city just for some reason, there's been this impression that there's something here that needs to get done. And the work that I do here, I think, affirms that feeling. Seeing what I put effort into for multiple years, like seeing growth in the community, seeing growth in people, seeing impact being made, seeing changes in local government. Right. I think it just affirms this kind of hunch that I have. Right. I could be completely wrong. Right. But there's just something that I feel good about being here, and I can't explain it. Isn't it sometimes the things that we can't articulate or intellectualize that are so valuable. Yeah. And, you know, like, everything intellectually would, you know, leave. Right. You can make more money in New York. You can make more money in, you know, there's more opportunity. There's communities that are more highly impacted that need more help around the world. But I just always go back, know, I didn't ask to be from this city, didn't ask to be from this area. I didn't ask to call this home. And I think we're all on a journey to find home, and I found it, and I want to build it as beautiful as I can. How have you seen. Tangentially, in a related sense, how have you seen the business community evolve here in the Central Valley? My first exposure to business when I was at an undergrad at UC Berkeley, I would bring friends to Modesto, and I always wondered why, once you cross over the Altamont, coming to Modesto, it was always kind of like you could feel the weight in the car kind of drop. Like, people were like, oh, where are we going? But when you would go back to the Bay Area, there was like, an excitement, and there was, like, a buzz. I can say that I went to Berkeley. I graduated from UC Berkeley in 2015. At that time, it was like, this is a brain drain. Nobody stays to. Now I see a lot more people who are graduating college, like, considering staying. So I'll say that's one thing. I mean, that, in my mind, affirms that there's some opportunity here that's keeping young people interested in the area. And I feel like it's more of a conversation now with younger people that there's an interest in staying local. So that's huge. Business wise, though, I see a lot more Arnold companies emerge. Like, if you go and you drive through the neighborhood in west or south Modesto, outside of people's driveways, they have taco stands. So you're seeing this really beautiful entrepreneurial ship, underground economy come public and I think that's a really cool thing. And it's important, right. For this economy to really support the people who live here. For this economy to be inclusive, we need more of that and we need that to grow, I think. So, in a nutshell, things that are occurring now didn't occur when I was younger and didn't occur when I was leaving the college. And I think it can only be a plus. I am not from here, so I didn't have the benefit or the context to know if a culturally informed, what's what they call the informal economy in the economic spaces wasn't here before. So is that a newer development? I think people are embracing it as an opportunity, as like a real thing, right? I think it's always been here. I think you've always seen people selling things on the side of the road, but I think people are now thinking that it could be them. And one thing that I've learned is that I feel like the Silicon Valley kind of brainwashes you, is that if you start a company, it's to make a billion dollars. Sure. It's to scale as fast as you. People and a lot of small business owners in the area, their desire is to support their family and do what they love. They love to cook, they want to be able to provide for their family, and that is a perfectly fine route to go in. And I think more people, especially people of color, people who are immigrants, they're going that route. They realize from talking to friends and family that there is a lot of barriers entering into the corporate sector, entering into finding a job locally, language barriers. These people have skills right now that can potentially provide them with capital. So I think they're pursuing it. Where do you see it all going? That's a good question. Part of me is concerned that there is like a flattening potentially in these communities because a lot of these smaller businesses are very similar, right. And there's a lot of them. So there may be like an economic flattening of the area. Everybody is kind of fighting over the same clientele, the same people. There's not a lot of influx of people from the outside coming in. So that's one concern I have. But for me, the business is just a means to a bigger end, and that is exposure to what entrepreneurship and an entrepreneurial mentality can provide and the impact that that could have on children, the impact that that could have on other facets of life other than business. Right. Problem solving, critical thinking, things like that. So for me, I'm hopeful that more of these companies emerge. More of these companies are supported. When it comes to becoming legally identified companies, I guess you can say, for lack of a better term, like filling out all of that crazy governmental paperwork. Right. To be established. But also that the fact that they're doing that is inspiring and builds confidence to be able to do other things. What is the single most important thing you would tell a young person compelled to serve the community in the central valley about the central valley? What I tell a young person is just get involved some way. Don't expect to know what you're going to love right away. Just try things out, right. Like you're not making a commitment for life. And you just standing there opening up a door is just as important as somebody who's handing out food, giving away backpacks. Your presence is important. I think, if anything, these communities just need the presence of young people, the presence of people who want to help and who are committed to helping. I think that's first and foremost. And with the Central Valley, there's a lot of. I mean, if you know, local government, economic reports right across the Central valley, compare them to the bay. There's this conception that the Central Valley is worse off. I think getting involved here in the Central Valley is. I think culturally, there's a lot of it here, a lot of it in the bay. And La is getting pushed out because of gentrification. But it's alive here. And I think it's important to immerse yourself in that and to celebrate that, because these spaces are becoming more and more rare. And, yeah, just go in headfirst and don't think too much. I'd say also, we discuss in academic circles the concepts of ongoing learning, of lifelong learning. So I'm curious to know much more about your learning, your lifelong learning journey. What would you say has been your most powerful learning experience as a business and community leader? Did you know? I tell the story. I have told the story a lot in some spaces. And I think for me, it's just the importance of exposure. Right. And understanding that we don't know what we don't know. I've told a story of these two kids who lived on Oliveira Road, where I lived at. And their names were Emilio and Jesse. I was asked to tutor them. They were like the brats of the neighborhood, right? They'd walk down the road and you'd kind of go back in your house because you don't know what they're going to do. And my mom asked if I could tutor them because they were on the verge of failing, I think. What? They were in 6th and third grade, so we didn't really have a place to study. So we would go to Mi pueblo, which was like a little grocery store around the. Yeah, Crow's landing. Crow's landing. And they had like, a little space there. And we'd go there because we know we get samples. And every time we study that people would give us food just to be able to eat the workers there. So we would do work there. And they were able to graduate after months of tutoring Amber, when they graduated, when they were able to pass on to the next grade, I asked them, how do you want to celebrate? Do you want to go somewhere? What do you want to do? And when I said that, I was like, oh, why did I say that? They're probably going to say, like, they want to go to Disneyland or something, or they want to go to Legoland. I don't know. But they said they wanted to go to the mall. Okay, so from Oliveira Road to the mall is like 6 miles. It's not that far. And these kids are like, I mean, they're maybe six and twelve. They're older kids, right? They had never been to the mall before, and I remember that, to me, spoke volumes. We went to the mall, they literally wanted to go into every store. But I'm never going to forget. Emilio said that he'd never been on an escalator before, so he went on an escalator, ran, came back down, did it again. And for me, that's like a roller coaster from them. I think that really impressed upon me two things. One, just the lack of exposure in neighborhoods that are underprivileged, especially with the youth, right. I truly believe that poor decision making in some ways is informed by lack of exposure. You make bad decisions when you don't know what options are available to you. If you only see a certain thing every day, you think you could only live in that box. And when you're exposed to something, you're able to break free from the prison of what people think you should be, how people think you should act. So for me, that was really something that has always stayed in my mind and is core, I think, to my learning journey. Just how could I be exposed to new ways of thinking? What is going on in the world around me? What is going on in business? What is trending? What's happening? I need to know, right? Because many times we could think we know it all, but in reality, we don't know what we don't know. So exposure is key. Like how can we expose other people to new ways of thinking? And how could I myself be exposed to new ways of thinking, too? How do you find it most effective and personally gratifying to extol the virtues, as it were, of lifelong learning? It's just making time for what's important. And if we love to learn and we truly embrace being a lifelong learner, we make time. In our busy schedules, we make time. And for me, it goes back to this idea of being present, right? Being present in a room, being present around people, being present in the community is important, but also being present to learn, being present in the moment, to absorb information is also critical, especially now, when things are just so fast, there's so much information out there. The dedication of time is extremely critical, and it's an investment, right? So our presence in the moment, our presence when learning, I think, is a critical virtue to being a lifelong learner. What emotions does the word access inspire in you? For me, access means that there's a gatekeeper, right? And it means that somebody has power, and it's a dividing mind. So access to me, definitely. It kind of nudges me a bit, right? Like, it's an unsettling feeling. When we're in the community, access is always at the top of our mind. Who has access to resources? Who doesn't? Who has the ability to say yes, who has the ability to endow a brief of information of potential, right? So access is a critical thing, especially for underprivileged communities. How can they get better information? How can they obtain the necessary resources to be able to live a high quality of life? That's core thing. It's truly important. But it's also important to understand power dynamics as well, and to understand who's who, right. And what the community is asking. Access for what's really important. A lot of times we have preconceived notions about what is important and what's not. But the community has greater wisdom than we do, and they'll tell you what they need access to. It's remarkable how, especially in our underserved communities, though, formal education comes at such a premium, there is an intrinsic understanding of asymmetrical power structures. 100% knowing that somebody is the gatekeeper and that's have access, 100%. Like, I think when we go into a community and we're gathering data for us, we want to honor that information because it's wisdom, right? Like, it's wisdom of experience. People have wisdom of knowledge and of going to college and having degrees, but it's a wisdom of experience that they share. And for us, the importance of honoring that is critical. Right. Being sure that we have encompassed the complexity of someone's experience, and we share that in ways that could keep their story alive and amplify that voice. That's critical to community work and to the work that we do. How do you feel that Codex specifically spoke to that problem in your mind, and what are your feelings about it today? I think Codex was a beautiful example of what a community focused engagement can look like. Codex came about from this concept of wanting to bring and expose children to a new way of thinking and to an opportunity. Right. And I think that when I look back on the times of Codex, for me, it was all about children, students, and middle schoolers being able to see themselves in a different place and expanding their mind into what's out there, exposing them to things that are available to them. Again, the coding is a means to an end. It's not the hard skill of the coding, even though a lot of students who have gone through the codex program are majoring in computer science right now. But it's the fact that now they know how to make technology work for them. Now they have been exposed to what's outside of where they live. And I think when I look back, that's a critical value in my life. And I see that in a lot of those students. A lot of them are in college, a lot of them are starting careers. And then I look back on that time fondly. I think that was an important time in my life, and also in a lot of those students'lives, so it was good times and good work. Who or what has been your greatest teacher? Faith is really important to me. So I think my faith upbringing has really been the anchor of my life and my spiritual practice. But when you couple that with experience, the resilience of growing up extremely poor and growing up on a street that was publicized as being the devil's street, to being able to go to college when nobody in my family has gone to college, and being able to go to Harvard and being able to come back and now give back in a way that is fulfilling. I think that story and the resilience that it took to do that, I think I shared with you, Pablo, and a conversation prior to this that I haven't really sat down and thought about just that journey I need to. But the resilience that that took, I think, has been the biggest life lesson for me. And it's built a confidence that, come hell or high water, I know I'm going to make it through. I know that nothing that happens lasts forever. Right? Everything is really temporal. And bad times come, good times are around the corner, and it's important to just keep your head down and work. We're so fortunate here at the podcast to get to meet and speak with high achieving individuals. And invariably the conversation starts moving into identity as it is related to the work. In terms of your career, what would you like to leave as a legacy based on your work so far at this point in your career? I know you got a long way to go, but. Yeah, and I appreciate that question. For me, legacy is the most important thing. Remember when I was in college, my mom would cry when I was in college because she said, oh, it was kind of redemptive for her, right. She said, well, it all worked out. You're at a school with the sons of millionaires and billionaires. And I realized that even though I'm at the same school, I definitely do not have the same opportunities. It's completely, if I drop out, there's no safety net, there's nothing. Right. It's just me back in the trailer, right. And I remember for a while there was not a resentment, but a frustration and, I think a desire that there are kids whose parents were bankers for three generations, politicians. So the kid knows that there's a path for him, there's something to follow. And I remember just being frustrated that there was never that. I feel like it was too hard. It never had to be that hard. So, for me, legacy is always extremely important. And I hope that the legacy that I leave is for my family and for my future family. That there's a path that's been created, and that it's not a self serving path. It's a path that involves the betterment of people, the betterment of community, and the betterment of the world. Right. And that's what we lead with. That's the most important thing. I'd say that's critical for me. I often think I've been fortunate to work in different spaces in my life. One of them probably the most rewarding, actually, definitely the most rewarding is an academia. If you were to have access to designing a dream course, what would it be? I think that I would love a course just on silence. Just silent. I think that there's a beauty in silence. I think that our lives are not silent. And I think that a lot of what people, at least my experience has been, I can't speak for everybody. Is that a lot of what I'm doing and where I'm finding fulfillment has come from a lot of internal work that could only occur when I'm introspective. I feel like that's, like, in some ways, becoming less important. So a course just on silence, right. Like, how do we create moments of silence in our lives to be introspective? And I tell this story and why silence is so important to me. Faith is very important to me. And I go to a pentecostal church. If you've been to a pentecostal church, extremely loud, people are running around, silent, borderline. You're waiting for the snakes to get brought out. Right. But it's a beautiful church, and it's a beautiful environment. But when I was in Boston, there was a different lithurgy. They valued silence. You'd go to church completely quiet, and I had never experienced that in my life. And I think for me, that's become a very important to my spiritual practice, my personal practice. But I think it's something that people need to study. And if I was in academia, I would love to study the importance of quietness, silence, and introspection. I think those are critical things for personal development, to know what we want to do in life. Right. And just for mental health as well. It's such an important set of teachings, mindfulness, if that's what you're really. Is it something for sure? Yeah. I had a friend who once, he was a big music, and he was talking to me about, and he taught me to appreciate jazz, Miles Davis specifically, and said, if you listen to not so much his playing, which is obviously, it's Miles Davis, but the moments and the pauses that he takes between the notes, you could live within those notes, in between those silent pauses between the notes. It's really fascinating to hear that. You would teach your course on those moments, right? Yeah. I think that there's many times we just try to brush over it, right. Or like, we feel awkward. I mean, have you ever been talking to somebody or ask a question, and it's like nobody's answering? There's this friction that you want to get over and fill really quick. Right. You want to say the question again or something, but living in that, that's a good place to be in, that's okay. And we need to embrace that more. I can see that in the way you speak, you seem very deliberate, very mindful of your words. You can see it. I can see it as a reflection of your person. As this is an institution of higher learning, research plays into everything we do. What role do you believe research plays in your everyday life. I think outside of the newspapers I read and like the magazines I read as well. Just the day to day things, right? Like I wanted to buy multivitamins. I know how to research, how to find good multivitamin. I'm not a nutritionist, I'm not a guru when it comes to food and dieting and whatnot. But there's a critical thinking element that if you know how to research, you can tell good information from bad information. And I think that's becoming harder and harder today, right? Everything on the Internet looks like it's professional. Everybody's an expert now. So for me, the importance of research is that critical thinking element and the perception, right. I think one thing about people who have grown up with technology is that they have a good BS meter. And I think going to college and learning how to research and how to craft a well versed paper makes that even stronger. There's a lot of BS out there, right? Everyone's trying to sell you something. Everybody has a point of view. And even beyond that, I think the importance of research is also the importance of argumentation, right. And the importance of being able to express your ideas effectively. We need more young people and we need more people who have grown up in this area, who have experienced tremendous barriers, right. To be able to be confident in their voice, articulate and express who they are, how they feel, what they've gone through. And I think research is a critical element of that. And if I can go back, I would have embraced these papers that I had to write these research papers. At. Last to come full circle, because I'm not going to even share the ways you had to get those things done. But it builds a muscle that when it's all said and done, there's gratitude for. Oh, absolutely, I agree. And I say that not for my students in technical writing that are not listening to this, but if they were, no, yes, there's something about it. I wonder, how much do you suppose that filter, that ability to conduct research in a meaningful way, to understand things better, is sort of a casualty of the death of expertise? I think everybody, when everyone's an expert, everybody can do it their own way. And it's like it's celebrated if you do it a different way. Right? And the technical and the precision of sharing information, of sharing your perspective, is now being overshadowed by charisma, which is, I mean, charisma is a great thing, but it's not an end all be all right. And it's being overshadowed by who's louder than the other person or who can talk faster or who's more eloquent. Right. So I think that precision in being able to share information and being able to support the information you're sharing, even though it may feel frustrating at times to go through the process of learning that skill, I think it's something that is critical, and there's always space for people who can do that. Well, I think those people last in business, they last in their careers, like the other people who are bs or who only lean on their charisma. They eventually get found out. Right? Sure, you can't last like that forever, but, yeah, I'd say just embrace it right now. So shout out to your students. Hopefully they're riding there. That is. What role do you feel research should play for a community servant? I think research should be a source of truth that's trusted. Right. A lot of times it's easy to lean on your emotions, to lean on how we feel. Stories are important and they need to be celebrated. But at times, data needs to be brought into the room with the company hap called debrief. We do a lot of public engagements where we gather data and we package it for our clients. We support the people that our partners and the people that we work with be able to engage community in an honorable and effective way. So for us, research is critical to what we do. We leverage research in being able to build the capacity of community members. And in return, we use research to inform the people that we work with of what the community is saying. It's a common language, I think. And for us, right, being able to leverage this is important. It's a way in which we can get things done to help improve people's quality of life. So research is critical in the work that I do and the work that my colleagues do. And its tenets are essential through your work at debris. And I know in many cases, I find it freudian slip. I find it hard. So do other people I've spoken with find it hard to sort of separate their sentiments, their feelings from the work. How do you find yourself finding a way to stay? Because I know that a lot of your research is ethnographic, it's qualitative. How do you find yourself remaining as objective as you can while still exercising the compassion necessary to do your work? Yeah, it's tough. I think the very businessy way to answer that question is that the value we bring is our objectivity. And so there's a necessity there, right. Once we're viewed as biased, we can no longer be trusted. So that's one element. But I think on a human level, we need to ensure that one story, one experience doesn't overpower all of the ones that we're hearing. An example is in south Modesto, a project that I've been really passionate about is getting sidewalks in that area. Since I was in college, I've been trying to figure out how to get sidewalks through Debef. We were able to work with the county and being able to bring sidewalks into the area. I always knew that people in the community wanted sidewalks. There's like, this story of this woman whose child was in a wheelchair. He was disabled. Every morning or every couple of mornings during the week, he would be taken at, like,

05: 0:00

00 a.m. To the. To dialysis. So a van would park on the road. It would never go into the driveway. For some reason, it had to park on the road, so the mom would. Had to bring the child out in the wheelchair. And in the winters, it would rain, so there'd be flooded. So she saved up money, and she paved it. She paid to pave it. And the story that she tells is that because it wasn't permitted, the local government made her pull it out. It was made her. Yeah, they made her pull it out because it wasn't permitted. It was illegal. She kept getting citations, et cetera. This is a story from the community, and that was really frustrating. So you hear that and you're like, well, this is an obvious reason why we need sidewalks. You keep talking to people, and they say, well, no, because one, where are we going to park our cars? And I'm like, why are you thinking of where you want to park your cars when you could get sidewalks? But then I realized it's because there's multiple families living in a home. So if you lay sidewalks down, where are three families going to park their car in front of one house? I think that's the importance of why, or that's an example of why research and objectivity is important. There's always multiple sides and angles to a story. Just because I want sidewalks in a neighborhood doesn't mean that it is the right thing. And I think a lot of throughout time, people in power make decisions based on how they feel, on what they think is right. And I think we need to move away from that. Being objective is gathering information from multiple perspectives. Right. And then making those findings and sharing them and letting the community decide what's really important. Right. So I'd say that's a critical learning that I've had. What do you yourself find most enjoyable to research? I'm going to be honest, it's not being in the library. I think the most fulfilling part of research is kind of knowing when there's a feeling that I get, when I know the argument is pretty strong. Right. When you, you've done the work to pull together all of the supporting information, you have placed it in a paper, and it's compelling, and now you're just tweaking the language. To me, that's the joy I feel. And you know that now you're kind of just polishing the table, right? I imagine it's like a carpenter, right? They kind of have a chunk of wood. And the joys, when you kind of see it come together, now you're just polishing it up. To me, that's where the joy comes in. When you kind of see that final. Product leading up to that moment of polishing. Is it? And I'm always curious about this because we take in research classes, they talk about triangulation and the whole universe. What is that moment where it's like, yeah, time to polish. I wish that every paper was systematic. You do this, you do that, and it's done. But it's like every paper is different and you can help around it from a different angle. For me, it's when I read it or I give it to somebody else to read, they say, yes, it's pretty good. There's just this feeling I get, like when, you know, it's on track and it's ready. Yeah, it's one of those. Does that mess with you? It does that. It's not something we can bound in some sort of sides. It's more of this esoteric sort of. I wish writing, if I had one dream, it's that writing could be systematic. You do this, you do that, you have a strong paper, it's done. You know where to start. But I just feel like every time you sit down and write, you're starting in a different place. Yeah. Maybe it's just the way I write, but I feel like every paper is a new experience. Right. Like you're starting at it from a different place and you're doing it a different way, but that feeling is the same no matter what. So I'm fascinated by craft. Right. We'll talk more about craft going forward. Do you approach the writing of it from an artistic perspective? Would you describe it as. I think so. I wish I would be more strategic about it. I wish I would be kind of like a surgeon. This is how I always start but for me, it is like an art, right? It's a piece of clay. And sometimes you start with the top of the clay, sometimes you start on the bottom, but it's going to end up how you want it to look, right? Yeah. I'd say for me at least, it's an art. I wish it wasn't, but still. Fun. What is the secretly coolest part of what you get to do? One of them is being able to spend time with my co founders, Nancy Martinez and Jose Burrell. For me, they make the work. The work's enjoyable, but they're the cherry on top. Being able to spend time with know, I'm the older one of the three of us, I'm the older one. So sometimes, again, I don't have siblings. I think they're one of the closest things I've had to the feeling of siblings. So I can imagine as an older brother, you kind of think you know it all or you're big and bad. And they humble me a lot and they teach me a lot. And for me, I think that's the coolest thing, is being able to be around people that I can trust, that I know have my best interest in mind, and that we're trying to accomplish this thing together. The work is the work. It's fun and it's great, but being able to do it with people that you really love and that you care about is a fulfilling thing. A significant part of our ethos here at the we is innovation. What does the word innovation mean to know? I think of, like, Peter Thiel, right? I admire his business philosophies a lot. And for him, business is about monopolization, right? Like, how can you. It's not about being a competitive business, it's about monopolizing the industry that you're in. When I think of innovation, I think of that, I think of an idea, I think of a thought, I think of a concept that has the ability to absorb an entire way of thinking, an industry. I think innovation is that you think of like the innovator's dilemma, right? It's that same kind of line of thought, right? Like how can you kind of move up the ladder and be able to absorb customers that companies with a strong track record currently have? So for me, innovation and monopoly, whether it's customer, whether it's a way of thinking, whether it's concept, go hand in hand. What do you feel that innovation should mean to us here? I think innovation should mean, not that the community work is not about monopoly, unlike business, right? Innovation and community is, in my mind, being able to create greater access, in addition to that, being able to support, an ability to allow people to have and attain a greater quality of life. So when it comes to empowering and when it comes to serving, that's where innovation should live. How can you increase access and how can you support people to be able to find and solidify how they define what a high quality of life is? For me, any idea, any service, any technology that creates that type of impact at scale is an innovative approach. To that end, there are ideas, and then there are innovations. Can you take me back to a moment in which you were part of an innovation in a social context, and you knew it and felt it before you knew that other people knew and felt it? What was it? And what about that made you draw on involuntarily quicker breath? Yeah. For me, it was codex. Right? Computer science, in and of itself, isn't a new thing. It's been around since the middle of the 20th century, if not before, then, like, it's been around for a while in the Bay area. When I was at Berkeley, Compsi was, like, essential in public schools. They were trying to get that in every public school. Came back to Modesta. It was in no public schools, maybe one. And I think when I sat down with an administrator of a large public school here, they didn't even know what it was. They had no clue what Compci was. And for me, I was, wow. Like, this is kind of insane. That, one, we're an hour away from the center of the global technological economy, right? The Silicon Valley is literally an hour and a half away, and administrators of schools have no clue what the tool to build platforms are. For me, it was like, this is crazy. One and two, there's, like, an excitement. This is going to be fun, right? Because now you have the ability to inform and build kind of what you want. So I think that was a time where I had that experience. How do you feel that you've been innovative in the places that you've worked. And grown on a personal level? I think story is important. I think story can be innovative, and I think my story has been something that I've embraced, especially in spaces where stories like mine don't exist. And I think this is an encouragement to other people who have experienced tremendous hurdles in life and have overcome them, that an individual story in and of itself, can be innovative, can be a new way of understanding, can be a new way to apply knowledge. And I would say it's the thing that's on, like, on a personal level, I've served on a lot of nonprofit boards, and I've volunteered and worked with nonprofits for a lot of, like, my teenage life, my 20s. Community organizers have always been essential to the community. They're the glue. They're the connector between community and resources and funding. It's a thankless job, though, sometimes doesn't pay well. You're always on the clock. You're always there for people, and people get burned out so fast, and people who are gifted in that role. I think being a community organizer is a gift. I think an innovation that we're trying to move forward with debrief is, how can a community organizer, how can that be a business? How can you create a model around the idea of community organizing in a way that not only honors the community, but honors oneself and is sustainable? So many people get burnt out in that role, and I think that's part of what we view debrief as, is that at our core, we're community organizers, but we also love data. We also are not shy about the skill sets that we have and knowing that this is something that can add value. And we're kind of learning to live in this middle ground of being socially focused while also being focused on ensuring that there's sustainability. Do you believe that there's an intersectionality between innovation and belief itself? For me, a core element of innovation, and I'm sure there's experts there and academics who I could be completely off, but at least my personal understanding and belief system is that innovation is about pushing the envelope. Right. It's like embracing the journey of going into uncharted territory. And belief is very similar to that. Sometimes we don't see what we believe. Right. We have hope. We pray. Right. But we don't really see what is there. We're not experiencing what we're hoping and believing for. In some ways, I think trying to start a business is like one of the. It's an example of faith, right? Like, you don't see the steps in front of you. You're kind of just rolling the dice, right, for lack of a better term. And innovation is very similar. I think there is an intersection there where you don't know what's around the corner. You're hoping for the best, but there's a firm belief that what you have can change the way people think and could also create impact. Application then becomes the next logical step, and we apply in a tangible way that which we believe in and how to hopefully affect change in some way. What does the word application mean to you in the context of a business education? Yeah. So I got an MBA locally here and at UC Davis. I wanted to stay in the Central Valley. And for me, I loved learning about business and getting an MBA. And I thought it was really cool and it was very applied. We applied a lot of our learnings and building models and reading case studies and going through scenarios. But for me, when starting a business and understanding how you could apply things, at its core, it's the necessity of iteration, right. You're not going to apply something for the most part, in the first time, it worked the way that you wanted it to work. So I think the beauty of human centered design thinking is so important and this need to, as you apply your learning. And I think this is why community engagement is so beautiful, because community engagement in the process of making a decision is an iterative step in making a good decision. Right. You're talking to your customers, you're getting feedback from them, you're talking to the people who are going to be impacted by a decision that you're going to make. Right. So it's important. So for me, applicability. And I think that the more we could embrace that, the more business leaders can embrace the iterative process of things, the better products we could have, the better services we could have, and the more client satisfaction, the more customer satisfaction there is. I'm glad that you so elegantly segued into human centered design thinking because it sort of informs my next question. Release the spirit of the next question. I wonder if you could tell me about a time when it all came together for you, when you applied the different elements from your different career experiences that have helped make your career what it is now in a design sort of context. Yeah. So never in a million years where I thought I'd be a consultant, right. Or live in that world. For me, I thought I wanted to be a lawyer. I went to a lawyer. I thought I wanted to be a lawyer. So I studied religion at Berkeley, also studied know. When I went to Harvard, I thought I'd be a lawyer and potentially also was studying divinity. And I think after a year at HLS, I realized like, man, this is not what I want to know. I was kind of dabbling at the divinity school and at the law school, thinking that there's potential connection there and thinking like, I know I don't want to be a pastor. Right. You're interpreting religious texts. That's kind of similar to interpreting law. Seems logical, right? Let's see if that's a way to go. So when I finished divinity school, I decided not to move forward with pursuing law, a law degree. So here I was with a degree in divinity, trying to communicate the value that you can add with that degree. And in the corporate world, there's a gap there. Sure, there's a gap there. Right? Right. There's a huge gap. So I stopped for a second. I was like, man, one, did I make a big mistake here? Right? Did I screw up my life? And I think I reflected, and I think part of design thinking is kind of taking a step back and seeing, okay, what is the big picture as you're moving forward? You're always looking at the big picture, and then you're hyper focusing on kind of what it is, the thing that you want to build. And then there's these ebbs and flows in that process. Right? And I realized, like, okay, what is the skill sets that religious and a religious studies education offer? Problem solving is one of them, right? Like, you're going through these texts and you're trying to find an answer, and you have to put an answer together through these really sometimes crudely designed sentences, these parables that can mean a million different things. But you're learning to problem solve, and you're learning also how to deal with complexity. These texts are very complex. Right? I mean, try to read a philosophical text. I mean, half the time I board for game. I didn't even read it because it was so confusing. But I realized that those were skill sets that have supported me in being a consultant. And if anything, those skill sets are the core of what I do. Being able to work with clients and being able to decipher through what the actual problem they have is through the myriad of different things that they're saying they're experiencing. This, this is happening every day, blah, blah, blah. There's a core issue that they're dealing with at sometimes it's not as explicit as you'd like, and also, then you have to strategize and figure out, okay, how do we solve this problem through all this complexity, through the business experience, through the current state of the market, et cetera. So for me, navigating my educational experience in a roundabout way allowed me to find, I think, a home in consulting. And I don't think I'd ever wish this on anybody, but it's an experience. And the design thinking elements, I think, played a big role in being able to kind of take a step back and kind of go with the ebbs and flows. What do you yourself wish to learn one day? And apply. I think for me, it's being able to find peace, right? Being able to kind of know when to put the sword down. You could find rest. I think that's something I want to learn more how to do. And I think part of the journey, I think of being early in your career is that you kind of want to conquer the world, right? You kind of want to do as much as you can and do everything. Knowing when there's peace and finding that and defining that, I think, is something that I hope to learn. Your words are inspiring and compelling, and I just have to think of. I've been fortunate, like I said, to be part of small part of students academic journeys. And there's times when they'll confide in you and changing a major, taking a course, not taking a course, not doing as well in a course as perhaps they would have wanted to. Where the question comes, what have I done? What advice would you give to a student who finds themselves at a similar impasse to yours about that moment and what it portends for their future? Yeah. So I think the biggest. What have I done, other than the figuring out the career thing is when I was in community college, thought I was Superman, I guess, which I'm not, and try to work full time and go to school full time. For some people, it works for me. It just didn't. So if you were to look at my MJC transcript, I have eight straight w's for three semesters. I don't even have a GPA. And that, like, thank God, in a roundabout way it helped me because it didn't affect my GPA. But I remember trying to go back to school after that, after doing that, how hard it was to like, no. What means counselors don't think you're serious. Teachers don't think you're serious. I don't even think you think you're serious yourself. Right. But in that moment, it's like, okay, it's like now or never, right? It's like you kind of have to bear down if you're going to do this. It's going to be rough, but you just got to kind of get through this right here. You got to get through this part and hope that it's not going to be as bad as it is right now. So I'd say for any student who's dealing with a kind of a dilemma, I think that's a call to bear down and really focus. Right. And define what the reason is that you're doing this. Right. I think that has to if anything, that moment ignites the reason why you're doing things, right. So I always look back at that in a thankful way. Like, I got over that. I've experienced it all as a student, so definitely not a perfect student by any means. No, we thank you for that. We thank you not for. Not for being an imperfect student, but for sharing a journey of imperfection. What would our students be best served to know about applying what they learn here with us at the school of business? I think that just keeping in mind that a business education is holistic, right. That there may be classes that you don't like over other classes, but it's the holistic experience that really builds capacity. And I think that finding a fit in business education is important. Building a community, being around people who are like minded and who want to accomplish the same things that you want to accomplish are critical. But just knowing that the education here is holistic, right. There is a broadness of this education that you'll be thankful for. We'll never be a product developer. I'll probably never manage a product throughout its life cycle. I was actually really bad at that. We did like this online thing, and it was a horrible experience being able to kind of learn that process of what those people do and then what that career entails. But now I can look back at that and understand that's an experience that's tied to a bigger experience that is building me as a business man. Right. So just understanding that. The biggest takeaway from my experience in a business education is the fact that you have a holistic view of business. And now it's an opportunity to really invest in what you're passionate about in. This field, in academic spaces and business spaces relating to leadership. So much thoughtful discussion, so much creativity. I think a lot of it's due to our individual impressions of the phenomenon itself. What does the word leadership mean, to know? We all have a different definition, I think, and it's based on our experience. But growing up as a kid, I loved ancient history, and I loved Alexander the Great and Constantine and all of these incredible warriors, right? They were successful because people followed them and people entrusted their lives to them. I think one of the biggest things that I look back and when I think of leadership, it's being okay to sacrifice the benefits of what a leader is for the sake of the people that you are leading, whether it's a salary, whether it's the big house. As a leader, in my mind, you're called to ensure that the people that you're leading are taken care of first and then yourself. And I think sometimes it's flipped, and you could always tell when it's flipped and when a leader has too much. Right. But for me, leadership is definitely servant, and it's sacrificial. And I think that's a side of leadership that I don't think is talked about enough. Right. The sacrifice of what it is to be a leader and what is necessary to give up in order to be a good one. In a similar vein, what do you feel makes a good community leader? I think it's the same thing. I think community leaders are selfless because they're doing something that nobody is asking them to do. They're doing it because they have a sense and a desire. They're sacrificing time with their families. They're sacrificing a paycheck in some regards. Right. They're working long hours that no one's going to thank them for. For the most part, for me, a community leader encompasses that. A good one. Right. And even a volunteer. Right. Like somebody who's present, they're giving up things for the sake of others. And I think community leadership is about service just as much as it is about sacrifice. And I think community leadership is, in many ways servanthood just as it is sacrifice. And a lot of times these communities are in the position that they are in because for decades, they've been viewed as a mine to extract things from, extract talent from, extract labor from, and demonstrates the need for community leadership. Somebody who's giving of themselves to pour back into the holes that this extractive mentality has created. Right. For me, there's an alignment there. Who is the leader? Who impressed him unwind the most in his early years and why? Yeah. So I loved baseball growing up. I love sports. Baseball is my first love. Second is close. Second is boxing. But baseball is my first love. Yeah. My favorite player was Derek Jeter, so played shortstop like him. I tried to do a similar batting stance to him. One thing I'll never forget. Yeah. He checks Yankees fans, so I'm in heaven. Go ahead. Yankee fan to Yankee fan, right? Oh, God. It's. Remember, so he's the captain, right. He refused to wear the c on the jersey. He never wanted to wear the c. And if you watch sports, you love sports. You know that the captain wears the c on the jersey so that everybody knows he's the captain, and he didn't want to wear it because he felt like the people that played with him knew he was the captain. So there's no need to be different than those he was around. So for some reason that's always stuck. I don't know why, but growing up, he was like my idol and he was a great leader from what I knew about him, given. I don't know about how he is behind closed doors, but he always was there for his team. So I'd say, like sports wise, that's a leader I definitely admired, but a leader who I also greatly admire was like Teddy Roosevelt. I think he was an incredible leader. FDR was an incredible Lincoln. I love reading american history and presidents because there's always a turbulence, right? I think leadership is defined in turbulence. So there's a lot of other great leaders. But funny to say, I think Derek Jeter in my mind, fantastic, elegant. And that is a non debatable point in this podcast, as long as I'm behind this microphone. There you go. Who is it now? Oh, who's a good leader now that I admire, I would know. I think somebody like Alexander the Great, in my mind, is a fantastic leader just for the simple fact. Similar to Derek Jeter, he was with his troops the entire time he fought in the battles with his troops. He was persistent and he was determined, but everything that his troops did, he did. He slept on the floor like his troops slept on the floor. There's a famous speech that is not verbatim, but the essence of the speeches. And he said if you were to take off his garments, you would see scars on him like his troops would also have. So for me, that's an important element of leadership that I think is critical is that being in the trenches with the people that you're leading and also sharing in the scars and in the battle with them. Right. Like a leader isn't one that sends people to the fire alone. They have to join them there. And I think that's where respect for a leader comes. And I think for me, that's what leadership is all about. Right? Yeah. I have a student who's a huge admirer of Alexander the Great. So that was for you. How have you seen Stan State evolve over the years? I think it's been a good know. I've had a lot of friends come from Stan State, and I think the amount of Latinos and Latinas who have graduated and are proud alumni, I think that's something that's really important for the latino community. And I think it's important for the future generations to know that standstill is local. But it's a fantastic school. Seeing the numbers, I think it was a couple of years ago that mobility numbers, right? Employment numbers. For me, when I was in high school, going to Stan State was like a drag. I was like, oh, man, I'm going to go into Stan State. I'm not from around here, so I didn't sexualize. No. But I graduated high school in 2008, so I'm dating my effort now. I'm starting to feel old, but I think from then until now, I think that the standard of the school is high. I think it's becoming the crown jewel of our Stanislaus county community, and it's viewed as a pathway to mobility. It's viewed as a pathway to success. And I think that's something to be celebrated. Right? Like, sometimes you don't truly understand what's in your own backyard and the value that it holds. And debrief had an opportunity to support the Stan 2030 process, and Stan State was there. They were supporting the initiative. And for me, it highlights the importance of wanting to build an economy that's inclusive to students and inclusive of the future makeup of Stan Sloss county. So it's really exciting, really exciting to see what's happening here. When you think of Stan State now, what comes to your mind first? When I think of Stan State, I think of how uniquely situated it is in the country. I'm going to offer some context here before I go deeper into that statement with debrief. We lead an event called in solidarity. It's a conversation about racism in Stanislaus county. We've done this for two years. We have about 125 people attend these public events. Right? We're just having small group discussions on racism in this area. When I think of Stan State, I think of how uniquely situated it is in the social fabric of the country. Colin Kaepernick is from Turlock. He's the modern face of the civil rights movement. I'd say there's also, I believe, a former student or somebody who lived in Turlock who was a national leader of a national or a white nationalist organization that had a national purview. So I think of Stan State as being in the middle of this really unique spectrum that is, I would honestly say that it's very rare in this country to have that wide of a gap. And I hope, and I'm seeing it just from just friends and student movements on campus, that this importance of this college is emerging. And I think its role in the social conversations on racism and access issues is something that I think I would love to see the school embrace, and I'd love to see it lead these conversations. And I know it's leading it in some ways, but just more of a call to action, if anything. I think that it's just so uniquely situated, this county, so uniquely situated that our voice matters in this conversation. That's a powerful responsibility. It really is. Yeah. What are your thoughts on the Warrior entrepreneurship and innovation initiative and its place in the region going forward? This is the launching pad for future entrepreneurs who are going to elevate this region. There's a lot of wealth here. There's a lot of opportunity here. And I think that this school, this program is a core element of being able to serve as a launching pad, developing students who have an entrepreneurial mindset, who can see opportunity locally and be able to build something that creates value and is sustainable. I think it's something that's new, I think it's something that's needed, and I really think that it's a training ground. This is something that hasn't really been around in this area since I can remember. So I think that as this grows, I think so does the economy. I thank you for your sentiments and your words. Again, it's a wildly important responsibility. And so many of those battles are waged with early career professionals taking roles of prominence at a very early time in their careers. Can you describe the feeling of speaking to the aforementioned early career professionals and what it means to your feelings about your career today? I think with early career professionals, it's being able to navigate navigational capital, right. Being able to find a strategy and how to navigate an organization, navigate life. Right. How can you be able to attain the information to do that and to do that quicker rather than later? Sooner rather than later? Right. For me, that's been something that has been critical to my career trajectory. How could I find the support I need to navigate where I want to build a career in? Where could I find mentorship, insight, information to build that strategy? I think it's incredibly important for early career students, adults to be able to sit down and think about where they want to be at in the next three to five years and to build some type of accountability process to be able to attain those goals. I think sometimes once you start making real money, once you start having a job and you could start paying rent, buy a house, buy a nice car, all that kind of gets forgotten, especially if you didn't grow up with money, especially if your family wasn't wealthy, we get kind of lost in buying things and getting things. Clayne Christensen, who's somebody who I deeply admire, talks about that being like a hygienic thing, a financially hygienic thing. And for me, that's something that has always stuck. Right? Like, financially, do we get kind of lost in the sauce? So in my mind, it's sitting back and really developing. Like, where do you want to see yourself and working towards that? I've had the ability and the privilege of having great mentors in my life and people along the journey who have kind of sat down with me and helped me conceptualize what I want my future to be. And I think that's been an incredible support in navigating. I view them as, like, my compass right as I'm walking through this journey. You described a very idealized set of potential experiences. How much of that do you think that comes from? Underserved communities? We don't have those privileges. Access material things. And in the transition to the following generation, when they start experiencing the success, having done the things the way that they were told was the right way. Go to college, get a career. Do we become victims of our own morality at that point? Are the ones that's extolled? Generation? Generation? I'll respond to that in kind of telling a personal philosophy that I have is know in the community. When you do community work, and usually when someone from the outside, let's talk about, like, we're doing work in south Modesto, somebody who's maybe a funder, wants to support an initiative or wants to donate to a cause. There's, like, this idea sometimes from people that people don't know what's best for them, or people don't have the core abilities to plan or to save money, or to prepare for the future, prepare for an emergency, et cetera. I truly think that people who have grown up in underprivileged circumstances are like the best strategists. They have had to improvise so much in their life. Right. Survival instincts, I think, cater well to being able to strategize and plan. There's been a lot of experiences that I've had perishing of, like, okay, tomorrow I'm eating dinner right now. How are we going to figure this out for tomorrow? I need to buy toilet paper tomorrow. How could I get a couple of bucks to be able to do that? Right? So I think the ability to strategize is there. I think where the issue comes is in the execution of that strategy, because there is distraction, especially as families become more mobile. And I think this is something that I'm trying to figure out, too. I don't have the answer yet, but it's how do you maintain a perspective of being able to remember what it's like to struggle and not forget that when you have the things that you've always wanted? I think there's this really some ways depressing metric that wealth is gone by the second or third generation. Right? And in my mind, what helped build the wealth is lost and it's not passed down. And I think story, and I think this is why story is so important. And I think this is why sharing stories of our ancestors, sharing stories of where we come from, the struggles of our past, they help prevent that from happening, I think. Sure. And assimilation necessitates that. That folkloric aspect of it is completely eviscerated. It's a sad thing. It's a sad thing. And I think for everybody in every family it's different. But at least for me, something I'm trying to learn. I've gone through the exercise of trying to figure out, I never met my father, trying to learn about the history of my family on his side, just because those elements make up who we are, the story of who we are, whether we like it or not, whether it's a good story or a bad story, it's part of who we are. And in some ways we have to honor that. Who is Emmanuel Escamilla? It's a good question. I don't even know who I am. I'm just kidding. I think I'm just somebody who wants to help at my core. That's all I am, somebody who wants to help who's there. And in some ways, it comes from, you kind of want to be the thing that you never had, right? So, yeah, I just want to help at the core of who I am. That's all I want to do. What was Emmanuel like in his early career? Yeah, I sit down with my mom sometimes and I poke fun at her because it's like, man, you should have taught me how to keep a calendar, manage my time, I think early career. I'm going to say a name. If Peggy Lee is listening to this, I am sorry for being a horrible subordinate, I guess you could say, because managing time, being on time, things like that, just little things that we overlook. But sometimes in our upbringing, it wasn't emphasized. Right. So much of this is cultural. I keep trying to say, like 15 minutes late to something isn't not fashionable, that's cultural. Exactly right. So my first, I think, real job was in San Francisco. It was at an impact fund. And oh, man, if I can go back, I would. But yeah, I mean, I learned a lot of difficult lessons there, and I think a lot of cultural things that I had to kind of unlearn and had to relearn other things, but also know that there's a time and place for everything. Right? Sure. Of course. Our ways are not there. Exactly. Where did a man will see himself now, then? I would never think of myself. I think trying to start a business that was community focused back then. Right. Like, I kind of had it in my mind that I was going to go a certain route. But I'm grateful. I truly am, because I can't help what I'm passionate about. And I think I had fought that for a lot because I wish I would be passionate about other things. But, yeah, I'm grateful that I've embraced the passion that I have for community oriented work and the ability to define or the ability to allow who I am to be present in that. I love data, I love numbers, and being able to create a niche in this work where I could do that. Core's earliest allies, supporters, mentors. Yeah, definitely. People in my church, there's a beautiful scripture that says that God is a father to the fatherless. So my mom was an incredible mother, but she tried her best to play both be a mother and a father. God bless her for that, because it was hard and I wasn't the best child. But to so many people as a know, kind of stepped in to be a mother where my mother couldn't really be a mom. Think of like, the Cunningham family in Sacramento that let me stay with them for months on end as my mom was kind of finding herself. I think of people in my church know when I was kind of bouncing from house to house as a teenager, opened up their doors to let me stay with them. My cousin Victor and Cynthia, I think of other people know, people of faith who have just always kind of been, you know, I'm always grateful for the people that I believe God puts in my life at important moments to kind of give me water when I'm thirsty or give me food when I'm hungry. And there's been so many people, so many people, and probably so many people who I've overlooked that have done that, but I'm just truly grateful. What would a manwin now say to start a conversation with a man one then, oh, jeez. I think I would just tell him that it gets better. Right. And to not worry. I wasted a lot of time worrying about the future and just to enjoy, I think, the importance of silence. Right. Is this importance of really sitting in the experience of what's happening. So I think I would tell Emmanuel then just to kind of enjoy the ride and not worry too much. It all works out at the end. It really does. What does it mean to you to be a latino leader in the current climate? Something that I think about a lot. And for me it's just being sure that I honor those who came before me. I think that's critical. We have not gotten to where we're at now on our own. There's no such thing as a self made person. We've always had support and we always stand on the shoulders of others who have laid a foundation. And for me, especially in the community, there are people that have done so much work in the community and there are so many people that have given their lives to this work. And it could be as grand as a name as Cesar Chavez. It could be a name that nobody even knows. Right? So for me it's just honoring the people who have given of their life to this type of work and those who have paved the way for me to be able to do the things that I'm doing now. For me to be able to go to college at these schools, for me to be able to work where I work at now, I think there's a lot of people who have paved the. Way for that adversity being on the ropes. It's all part of so many stories. If you would describe a scene, the where, the why, the how, if you could take me back to the first moment that you realized you might not be able to deal with this particular challenge, whatever it was. So I'm 30, 32 right now, so I haven't lived a long life, but I feel like I've experienced a little bit of life and sometimes the adversity is unasked for and sometimes it's your fault, why you're dealing with adversity. Right. And I think for me, choosing to ride a bike across the country was something that was like self, a decision that I choose to put on myself, which was extremely hard. But I will give an example of this. So I started in San Francisco and was going to St. Augustine, Florida. That was the trip. It was over 3000 miles. As I was getting to San Diego, I went to a town called Julian. It's the center of, supposedly the center of the world for apples, so apples, randomly, great apple pie, all that stuff. So Julian is about 5000ft. So getting to Julian was extremely hard. But leaving Julian was extremely easy, downhill the entire time. So I had to get from Julian and I wanted to get as close to Yuma, Arizona as possible. Julian was, I'm sorry, not to Yuma, but to El Centro, California as possible. That was the trip for that day. The only problem is, from Julian to El Centro, you have to go through the Anza Barego desert.

So I made the mistake of leaving Julian kind of late, around 09: 1:26:18

00 a.m. So I got to the desert by eleven. No water, no food, and it was so bad that I had to wake somebody down for help. Wow. They draw me off at a border patrol, but that's another story. But I think when facing that level of adversity, knowing when to ask for help is critical. Not trying to muscle things out on your own, but it's also important, I think on a personal level, like knowing where our weaknesses lie and knowing our capacity, it's important to push ourselves. It's important to know where our limits are and to know where those limits are. I think that was a critical lesson for me. So I haven't been on a bicycle since finishing that bike ride and haven't been back to Julian since. I don't think I ever go back. What does intentionality mean to, you know. I think it's being thoughtful of others. Sometimes that can be hard because a lot of times we're looking out for our own self interest. But at its core, intentionality is thoughtfulness. Right. How is what I'm doing affecting somebody else? How is what I'm doing going to impact somebody else? Why am I doing this? How is it going to benefit or hurt somebody? I think that's all critical to intentionality. Working in the community, thoughtfulness is key, right? You can't last in community work, being selfish. So I do think that thoughtfulness is critical. Technology, education, faith, what have they meant to the story of you? There's a thread in all of it together, right? And faith is the anchor, but it's the lens by which I view everything that I do, right. I told the story, I gave its head talk and told the story of how the sling that David used to slay Goliath at the time was a form of technology, right. Usually you would use a sword, but he chose to do something different. It was in some ways an innovation, right? So that's why I feel like technology is blends in. And for me, faith is the lens by which I view my life, what I do. I always try to find threads in what I value and what I'm passionate about through the lens of faith. When and how did you feel the most creative in your career? I think creativity is something that I value a lot. It's something that I'm learning a lot about. Right. The importance of constraints with creativity. Right. Not creativity with no boundaries is dangerous. I think the most creative that I've been in my career has been the opportunity to be entrepreneurial, and the ability to feel empowered to do that, the ability to have an idea and to try to build something kind of out of scratch, to synthesize different ideas as well, is also important to me. So whether it's codex, whether it's debrief, the ability to imagine something and then pull all nighters and whiteboard for hours, for me, those have been some of the most creative moments. And then being able to see what that creates, and then being able to see it bring in revenue, and being able to see it create impact, and being pablo, to see people be hired full time, and sustainability and all of these things, I think, is just a byproduct. But, yeah, just from scratch, kind of all the hours, losing track of time and building those two things have been really cool for me. Is there a moment where you hear this expression, the artist becomes the art, or where the worker becomes the work? Is that an image that somehow resonates for you? Does it mean something? I hope when it's all said and done right, like, I hope when my life is over, I can say that, right, that it wasn't the byproducts of what was created, but the life itself that tells the story. Right. It isn't the business or the revenue or the impact, but my hope is that that's the story and the art that is created through all of this work. What role has family played throughout your journey, and how did it evolve? Yeah, so this is an interesting question. My mom was always, like, a black sheep of her family, so I never really grew up close to my aunts, and I'm an only child, too. So for me, family was always my mom. I'd see my cousins here and there, but for the most part, it was just my mom. But I've always kind of had a mishmash of family. Right. Christmases have always kind of been a headache, because don't really know who to visit. A pseudo family has become the people who I've met in the community, the people who I've worked alongside, the mentors who I've sat with, and they've poured into me. My definition of family and the impact that family has made on my life isn't kind of the traditional understanding, I would say, but it's just a lot of people that for some reason or another, felt that they wanted to hang out with me and spend time with me. And for me, I'm truly grateful for that. There's so many people locally who have done that, who have given me a shot, given debrief a shot, and I think that's something that is a beautiful outcome of serving, is that you get to meet all of these great people who care. Book or film that changed your life? Book or film that changed my life. So I'm going to start with a book I do love to read a lot. The Alchemist was a book that really impacted my life a lot. I read that relatively young, and that's just been a story that's kind of stuck with me. I'm reading a good book, leadership in turbulent times, that stuck with me, too. I think a film that I really love is gladiator is a great movie that I think sticks with me, and it's all about overcoming and all about finding your path. And I think that's especially as someone who's on the younger side of many professionals, I think that's kind of where I'm at. I know a lot of my people my age are at, right. We're trying to just figure it out and whatnot. So it could be turbulent, it could be rough, but I think those books have helped me. That movie has been something I've always kind of pointed back to. Song that you've heard that made you say, that's my life, that's me, that's my story. Again, it's probably going to date me. But if you love hip hop, yes. Then you know this song, hate it or love it, the game and 50 cent. So that's a good song. I think that kind of encompasses my life. That's one. I can't think of another one off the top of my head, but that's definitely one. I think you could throw a couple of tupac songs in there, too. What does the phrase good trouble inspire in you? Good trouble, at its core, doesn't care what people think. And I think if you want to make change, you cannot be enamored and overly focused on that. So good trouble is doing things that you know is right without caring what people think. And I think that's becoming harder with social media. Right. And the need for affirmation. I'm speaking, at least for myself. For me, it is tied to kind of disconnecting from needing consistent affirmation of people and trusting my intuition. Do you see yourself as a high achieving individual. Do you see yourself in those terms? In some ways I do, but in some ways I don't. I think I would be lying to myself if I said that I don't consider myself high achieving in some ways because I've been blessed with an education and blessed with the education that I think many people would love to have. And I, for some reason, have been granted the opportunity, but then I don't because the people who I'm around, that doesn't really even matter where I went to school, how much money I make doesn't even come up. In some ways, it's important, and I embrace that. But for the majority of my life, day to day, the people who I'm around, it's not even a factor to them. So because of that, it's not something I really think about. Complete this sentence. Recently, I've tried indian food for the first time. Okay. Surprisingly. Okay, surprisingly. That is surprising if you're in south Minnesota, you know about family fun nights. We just finished that last Friday, so recently I finished that and I'm thankful because the last month that I have. Yeah, so, dude, the reason I had Indian Food, delicious. Don't know why I didn't try it sooner, but I also finished a really big community, two week community event. So, yeah, grateful for that, listeners, I. Actually saw the authentic response of our guest to those two instances. The longer I do what I do. The more I. Yeah, the more humbled I get. There are incredible people around me, and I think we all sometimes think we have a good idea and whatnot. But the more and more I do this, the more humbled I get by just brilliance. And it comes in the most random times and the most random people, the most random of ways. It's a good thing. Just get out there and. Yeah, just get out there and serve. I think that's the biggest. If there's one takeaway from this conversation, it's to that. Please get out and serve. Find a place where you could give 30 minutes of your time to somebody else. I guarantee you'll feel better about yourself. You'll feel happier overall. So just get out and serve. There are or will always be people who critique, right? There will always be people who critique or think they have a better idea than you or think that you should be doing things a certain way. That's fine. It's good to happen. But I think that's a tough lesson I've learned and come to embrace. Yeah, there's always going to be people who think that they know better life. Has taught me to. To try to enjoy as much of it as possible. To not live. To live for tomorrow, but not live in tomorrow. Right. And to embrace the past, but not live in the past. Right. My mantra is to be strong and courageous. Right. Everything that we do is tough. The goals that we have are hard to reach. They wouldn't be goals, but it takes strength, mental, physical, spiritual, and also courage. Courage to fail. Courage to look yourself in the mirror when you're tired. You don't want to do it anymore. But also the courage to continue winning teaches you. If you know me, I'm extremely competitive. Very competitive. So I think winning teaches you how to work hard and prepare. It really does. Usually, the winner is the one who does those two things. So it's taught me that it's hard. Not to ascribe the word competitive to a man who rode a bicycle across the country. Jeez. Even if only with himself. Yeah. Losing teaches you. Yeah. How to be graceful. How to be graceful. It's easy to rub it in when you're winning, but it's how you lose that really shows the character. Right? So how to be graceful. The part of me that is the work. Part of me that is the work became evident when I think working with co founders, right? Being in a relationship, sometimes, like, you see things about yourself that you want to change and that you know aren't healthy. So I've learned a lot about myself working alongside people who I respect and admire. The hardest thing about learning to trust your instincts or intuition is. Yeah, I'm the fear of failure. Right? You really know how much you trust yourself when you have a gut feeling, but everything is telling you the opposite, right? All of the markers and signals are telling you the opposite. If you are listening to me now and need a testimony to the power of education and belief in yourself and others, I want you to know that. Everything is truly possible. A kid from the Devil street in south Modesto to being able to attend Harvard. If you don't think that you could accomplish what you want to accomplish in education and a career, whatever it may be, you're sorely mistaken. Really, anything is possible. Random association. You know the rules. I'll say a word, and if you like, say the first one that comes to your mind. Change. Good. Change. Management. Toss. Inclusion, important. Peer support. Mentor. Critical. MBA. Rough. Md. Rougher. Traditions. Important. Teaching. Lifeblood. Right. Life. Blood meaning life. Parable faith solidarity essential to life in today's world. Identity a journey to find responsibility, passion, and obligation to oneself. Time, a vapor for sure. Place Modesto Santos county home and now. We come to the segment of our podcast that we affectionately call the eleven, originally of Proust, taken by PvE, given to Lipton and shamelessly appropriated by our podcast. What is your favorite part of starting something new? The favorite part of starting something new? I think it's the energy that you have when you're building. There's like this sacred energy of like once you immerse yourself in it, it's crazy. You can't explain it. It's a whirlwind, but it is joyful and gives so much life. What is your least favorite part of starting something new? I think just the uncertainty. There's thoughts of like, what if this is wrong? That are always lurking in the back of your mind. So self doubt. What interests you the most? Data. Like, I think knowing what's happening and the trends that are occurring around it. What interests you least? Sound bites that take things out of context. I think that is not data that is like the opposite of true information. It's frustrating. This is a radio station, after all. What music, artist, genre or song reminds you most of your early days in entrepreneurship and innovation? It's a good song, so it has to be definitely EDM. I feel like a lot of nights with EDM, I'd say like alesso big room house ultra music festival for sure. Yeah, you're from Miami, so sure you went there a couple of times. We'll talk off broadcast. What food or beverage reminds you most of your memories of your first startup? For me, it's definitely a Gatorade and also bagged lunches because at these schools we worked a lot on schools, so we always got summer bagged school lunches. So yeah, I'd always be sure to bring a Gatorade though. What profession, non entrepreneurial do you admire the most? Teachers, I think selfless job. What job prior to entrepreneurship did you dislike the most and why? Oh, I always say one of the reasons why I went back to MJC after performing so horribly was that I worked at a factory and I learned what hard work was. Thought, man, maybe I can get a job at an office and sitting down. So shout out to all of those people who are working know manufacturing, who are working manual labor jobs. I mean, you guys are incredible. If heaven exists, what would you like to hear God say when you arrive at the Pearly gates? Well done, my good and faithful servant. Immediately thereafter, what idea or innovation would you like to pitch him her? They it with the universe as your marketplace? I would say open source access to heaven. That's what I'd say. Emmanuel Escamille, it has been a distinct pleasure. Thank you for visiting us at the entrepreneurship and Innovation podcast. Appreciate it. Had a great time and thank you for this opportunity. Thank you so much. Thanks for listening to this episode of the Entrepreneurship and Innovation Studio. This podcast is part of the Warrior Entrepreneurship and Innovation program, affectionately known as the WEI. Our series is recorded on the campus of Stanislaus State at the KCSS radio station and produced by Frankie Tovar. Follow and subscribe on your favorite podcasting platform. I'm Dr. Pablo Paredes Romero wishing you the best of everything. Always.