Canadian Salad
A No-Nonsense Podcast On Culture And Immigration
Canadian Salad
The Crime We Never Named
Colonialism is officially on trial — and the world can’t look away.
In this episode, Andrea and Hostion unpack a monumental move by African nations pushing to recognize colonialism as a crime against humanity in international law. Through personal stories, history made human, and deeply reflective conversation, they explore how colonial legacies still shape our lives today — from language to identity to global inequality. They end with a powerful message of hope: a world healed through accountability, solidarity, and shared responsibility.
A grounding, illuminating, and surprisingly uplifting conversation about what justice could look like when we finally listen to the voices long ignored.
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SPEAKER_04:Welcome to Canadian Salad, a fun, factual, and friendly podcast about culture and integration in Canada.
SPEAKER_01:I'm one of your hosts, I'm Ho Shen Ho from China, currently living in unceded territory of Muscriams Waminch as New Wattoon Nations.
SPEAKER_04:And I'm Andrea McCoy, an immigrant from the United States, broadcasting you from the unceded traditional territory of the Watungan people, the Song Lizum inspired First Nations.
SPEAKER_03:And you're listening to Canadian Sabbath.
SPEAKER_00:Hi, welcome back.
SPEAKER_03:Hi, welcome back. It's another Tuesday, another December Tuesday.
SPEAKER_00:New Year is coming. Yes.
SPEAKER_03:I'm excited for a new year.
SPEAKER_00:Are you I mean I'm excited to, but also like, oh, it's another year. I don't know what that is.
SPEAKER_03:Another oh no.
SPEAKER_00:Another year I'm gonna get older.
SPEAKER_03:You're too young to dread that. Oh goodness.
SPEAKER_00:Oh my god, I'm closer to 40 next year.
SPEAKER_03:Well, welcome to the it's amazing. 40s are amazing, and it'll be amazing.
SPEAKER_00:Only people who are already there said it's amazing.
SPEAKER_03:Yes, because it is.
SPEAKER_04:You have to say well, I I don't have to. I mean, I genuinely mean it. I mean, I did 30s was great, but I feel like I'm learning a lot more in my 40s. In fact, I'm learning a little so much more that I decided we we could do a today's episode on something I learned recently. Oh.
SPEAKER_06:Yes. What did you learn?
SPEAKER_04:Colonialism is now on trial. So there was a meeting at the end of November where the African Union, which is a group of 55 African states, they met in Algiers and are had a huge two-day discussion on recognizing colonial era crimes as crimes against humanity and to pursue reparation. So basically making colonialism illegal in international law. Huge. Oh my gosh.
SPEAKER_00:Huge. Just like Trump's are huge.
SPEAKER_04:I don't want to bring that colonizer in this world. But yeah, it's massive. It's absolutely massive. So I wanted to talk about that and unpack that. Hoshin, what what would you say? I guess in in personal reflections, what would you say has been the impact of colonialism or your interactions with it as just an individual?
SPEAKER_00:Well, I think colonialists, but I would never I was born in a colony in some sense. Um I was born in a Portuguese colony, right? Yeah, exactly. So like our governments always, you know, rule the white people. We can have we have no agency to ourselves, obviously, in terms of culture, our government, our language, even our school. But I was really young, so I won't say I remember a lot of it. I just the things I remember is just seeing people, white people, not our own people, have all the power and all, and we cannot go do take any upper position in government or in any thing that matters. So I think losing the agency, see feeling that you don't have that you can never get there, that is one that kind of disappointment is some sort of disappointment and anger. And then I think growing up, like moving out of China, knowing histories of like colonialism, uh, or like even oppression towards the indigenous, or like this idea that I have to learn English, English is the way, or the Western ideology, philosophy is the way to think and for society to operate. It's kind of like suffocating because I am from you know a different culture, obviously. And sometimes even in relationships, I have dated one white boyfriend who told me we're in Canada. So your way of thinking or your way of operating is of a relationship, is that's not how it's not gonna work here.
SPEAKER_03:Oh my gosh.
SPEAKER_00:Like this is also the most colonial thing, yeah.
SPEAKER_03:Right, and that's ugly, yeah. I'm glad he's no longer a part of your life.
SPEAKER_00:No, he's no longer, obviously.
SPEAKER_03:Girl, go away. Yeah, get your colonial mindset out of my life. Yeah, I think.
SPEAKER_00:This is not 1600s, okay? Yeah, go away. So, yeah, that is like impacts a lot of my way, definitely impacts, very subtly impacts all areas of my life, the language I speak, the way I think, movies I consume, conversations I happen, even sometimes foods I eat. I ate a lot of cheese. I'm not intolerance.
SPEAKER_03:Oh no. So your love of cheese thing is due to colonialism.
SPEAKER_00:No, I kind of I don't love it, but like sometimes on a certain dish I would eat it. You know, but you just like without colonialism, I know cheese would not be like a big thing.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, no, I yeah, but yeah, but that's my story.
SPEAKER_00:What about you? Yeah, how's your relationship with it?
SPEAKER_04:So, relationship has been largely ignorant of it because I've been a benefactor of it, and I think growing up with very whitewashed history, you know, all the people that made the inventions were white, all of the leaders, of course, were white. And so it was just that's just everything we have is because of the Western world. The Western world is a savior to countries in Africa and countries in Asia because they break medicine and you know they've helped other countries develop. You know, these are the narratives that I was taught in school, and in many ways, there's still some, like with my son, there's still he learns about Benjamin Franklin or he learns about Albert Einstein, which it's okay, cool, but there was a lot of other inventors that were people of color that don't get the same recognition. And so I see it being played out within education, um, health, and so it in many ways I've been ignorant and just that was kind of the narrative. And now that I know that it's front and center in my face, I am now resisting and try to unlearn a lot of these old tapes and old narratives and old stories that were just really void of the full picture. So yeah, it's kind of like I've been thinking about this. So, you know the story of Noah and the Ark, right? Where this old guy is told about okay, save all the animals because I'm gonna save only the purest and goodest of humanity because the world is corrupt, blah, blah, blah. And so I feel like I've always been told the narrative of my life and my world around me from the vantage point of being inside of the ark as opposed to being on the outside screaming for my life while I'm drowning. I love that. So, yeah, so it is it's a flip. And so that's where I'm like, I I want to stop listening to the people in the ark and the people I want to start listening to the people outside. So that's that's kind of my my mental structure of colonialism and engagement, but largely ignorance. So yeah.
SPEAKER_00:But now we are trying to get on the other side of ignorant, yes, yeah, and informed.
SPEAKER_04:So when this came into so this story actually popped into my algorithm on Instagram, and I sent it to you, and you're like, episode idea, yes, let's do this. So this is what it is. So I just want to set the stage because people may not know about it because it's not getting Western media attention.
SPEAKER_00:Let me get the spotlight ready.
SPEAKER_04:Yes, exactly. Set the stage. Set the stage, exactly. Lights, camera, action. So yeah, so basically on Sunday, November 30th, African leaders from 55 different countries met up. If we go back just a little bit, a resolution was passed at a summit in May that pushed to define colonization as a crime against humanity. Um, because the reality is in international law, colonialism is not mentioned as a general term. What is mentioned is like slavery is a crime against humanity, genocide, equal rights, torture, yeah, apartheid. So you have very specific things, but colonization as a whole is not mentioned. Um, Algerian foreign minister Ahmed Ataf stated, quote, Africa is entitled to demand the official and explicit recognition of the crimes committed against its peoples during the colonial period, which is an indispensable first step toward addressing the consequences of that era, which for African countries and people still are paying a heavy price in terms of exclusion, marginalization, and backwardness. Like if you look at, I think I read African Africa as a continent contributes to 4% of climate, to the climate crisis, 4%, where Western countries are like up there in like 60 to 70 percent of the global warming. But then Africa suffers most under climate change because of mineral extraction, because of the ways in which over time that land has been extracted, the methods that have been used to take away raw materials, raw minerals, that kind of a thing. So African countries have borne the brunt of extraction and of the climate change because of colonization, because of dominance from Western empires. According to The Guardian, international conventions and statutes accepted by the majority of countries have outlawed many of these like big name ticket items like slavery, torture, apartheid, but um there's no explicit reference. And so this is like a big component of the AU coming together, saying this needs to be recognized because while you have specific things, you're ignoring a larger piece of like of colonialism, which has created inequality in the system, it has led to the discrimination and oppression of people still today, and a big, big step. French president Emmanuel Macron. So there has been like a push for some apologies, but in 2017, he did describe elements of history as a crime against humanity, but has not yet um issued an official apology and implored Algerians. So French had seized Algeria, it was a French colony forever, and yeah, the most atrocious crimes against humanity were committed in Algeria. Um, but he's basically imploring people not to dwell on the past injustices because this creates division. Which is the kickback.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, that creates division itself. That I with fuse to acknowledge atrocious past that had created inequality and so much suffering for other people. It's easy for him to say because he is a beneficiary. Of course. I think if he's black, he will he's not from Nigeria that he won't say the same thing.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah, exactly. No, he wouldn't. And this is I love this quote. This is Ghanaian pan-Africanist Quasi Pratt. He said, quote, we cannot continue to manage the consequences of a crime while ignoring its authors. End quote. So you can't just, I've heard this argument before. It's well, Remembrance Day is for us to remember our fallen soldiers. Well, why aren't we just telling everyone to get over it and stop remembering the past? What's in the past? That's so divisive. Why would you want to remember? Why would you want to acknowledge? Why would you want to do anything to mark that remembrance?
SPEAKER_05:Yeah.
SPEAKER_04:But when it comes to actual five centuries of brutal enslavement and colonial tactics on the global majority, we're like, mm, that's divisive. We no, that's no, we shouldn't really talk about that. You just need to get over it.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah.
SPEAKER_04:So it's only getting over it when it's re pertains to anyone who is not of Western or European ethnicity. But when it comes to Western practices or Western remembrance or atrocities, oh yes, this is non-negotiable. This is absolutely something we need to be doing.
SPEAKER_00:I mean, it's obvious that they don't want to you know be reminded of you know the atrocious behavior in the past by the committed by ancestors, and I think a lot of them also have this kind of white guilt that they want to feel.
SPEAKER_04:Yes, exactly. Exactly. So before we go on, what actually they're asking for, because it's one thing to make colonialism a crime, but then they are asking for very specific things. Do you have any other thoughts about the AU bringing this forward, Hoshin?
SPEAKER_00:I mean, I was of course, I think is absolutely important. And as I mentioned, like a lot of like colonialism still very subtly happening to our lives, and in many ways creates a lot of distress that we in some sense I would say like because it's so subtle. Like in China, we have this one saying, I love it. It's called one tree, it's like warm water cooks the frog. You know, when you're in the warm water, when the water's still being heating up, you don't know you're eventually gonna die in that water.
SPEAKER_04:As opposed to a pot of boiling water, which you know exactly, yeah, yeah, exactly.
SPEAKER_00:Like we know boiling water is illegal, like killing people, exactly like very explicit kind of like discrimination or and oppression is illegal, but somehow this kind of subtle way of discrimination and oppression, like meant still is legal. So I love the AU really bringing it up to also try to say no, this subtle way, which is colonialism, that's still kind of oppressing us, it should also be illegal. I really love that idea.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_00:It's also about time.
SPEAKER_04:It is about time, and I love that visual or that and that kind of that phrase that you just mentioned because it is. That is what, you know, because people say, Well, we're not we're not enslaving people now, so what's the problem? And it's like, well, the problem is we're dealing with the effects of a crime that was committed and still is embedded and entrenched in our minds because we're not taught about the crimes that were committed. We we aren't, you know, we're we just want to forget it, wipe our hands away, and just it's uncomfortable for us, so let's not talk about it. So, of course, yeah, we don't see it. We don't actually recognize the impact that it's had.
SPEAKER_00:The part of the crime is still happening, like white supremacy is still happening, discrimination is still happening, they are still oppressing people. Like we are, you know, like somehow like in international trade, like uh the power that ye uh the European Union have and the AU have is very different. Part of it is also these kind of the remnants of colonialism as well. Like it's still happening.
SPEAKER_04:It is, it is, and um, that's why what leaders are asking for is really, really important because it demonstrates exactly what that softer or even just that the effects of colonialism that continues to have. So the key demand is to have colonial era crimes formally quote recognized, criminalized, and treated as crimes against humanity under international law. Um, so the African Union defines reparatory justice. So this is what reparatory justice in numerous ways. For the AU, it includes a range of initiatives which seek to address the injustices of colonization, slavery, and systemic discrimination, such as financial reparations, land restitution. So a lot of people think, well, reparations is just money. Well, it's not, it's it's a lot more. Um so there's financial reparations, yes, but then there's land restitution, international accountability, and then community empowerment. These are the four things that they're laying out. They're asking for literally just kind of like a framework that's unified because international law does not explicitly lay this out, this is a hu another component of what they're asking for. They want this collective reckoning because I feel like collectively, if we continue to ignore it, like it's enough, like it's not enough for just me as an individual to say that this is wrong. It has to be a collective thing because it was a collective thing that happened. It was a collective benefit, like a collective benefit for Western empires, and it was a collective oppression for African and many East Asian countries. Um, so this is this has to be, there has to be like some kind of parameter or framework internationally that collectively recognizes colonialism as a crime. So the UN has, so I guess they did a report back in 2023 that recognized uh European states to apologize and address those harms, but those states have not accounted for those past wrongs. So there's an apology and there's an address like, yeah, we're sorry. Oh yeah, we admit that was a crime against humanity. But then beyond that, nothing. And I watched this interview, it was an Al Jazeera interview, and we'll include the link in our show notes or website, has it all CanadianSala.ca. But they invited former French ambassador to African nations to speak. And his whole thing was like, yeah, definitely. There were crimes against humanity. There were, yeah, it was terrible. But you know, colonialism brought some good things too. I mean, this man was not, he was terrible, but it's like you can have an apology, but the fact that you're still saying, well, you know, if we just contribute to you econom like financially, and at a slow amount of time, because this is one thing he also stated, we don't want to give you too much money because we know there's corruption within African countries. Yeah, he said that on the interview with someone who literally is from Rwanda, this woman who was like a Rwanda educator, and then this other gentleman who worked in Africa who was he was dynamic, he was wonderful. But that's just it. It's like, but you see the holes, an apology um and just addressing the harms does not actually undo or do anything to heal or to make amends.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. I mean, also just from like a PR perspective, that means they don't even know what apology means. Correct. Yeah, from a communication perspective, you know. That's not how apology should be phrased.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah. And if if you even if I needed to apologize to you and say, Hoshan, I'm really, really sorry. But then I continue to treat you terribly, that's not that's not an apology. And this is this is what what they're asking for. Channel Africa had interviewed University of Zambia lecturer Dr. Eustin Chaputa, and he said that Africa's demands are long overdue. He said he referenced cases against the genocide against the Hero and Nama peoples in Namibia under German rule, the Algerian War of Independence, and the Mau Mau rebellion in Kenya, where thousands were killed by colonial forces. He said that if similar crimes had been committed against former colonial powers, reparations would have been non-negotiable. And of course they wouldn't. Like it, like we wouldn't have this conversation. We wouldn't be like, oh, it's complicated. Oh, we need to get over it. You know, like no. If I insulted, if I even said to any person who had lost a former family member in World War Two, and I said, Well, you know what, maybe you should just get over it. Like the past is the past. I would be hit, I'd be punched on an instant, like I would be shot down.
SPEAKER_00:Also, this idea of like oh it's complicated. So somehow is enough reason to not deal with it also is crazy.
SPEAKER_04:Right? Like when when has anything been easy? Or but if you if you actually were motivated, you wouldn't care about the complexity.
SPEAKER_05:Yeah.
SPEAKER_04:We wanted to get to outer space. It's complicated, didn't matter. We made efforts and we poured money into making space travel happen and look where we are.
SPEAKER_00:You sound like we land on the moon. What's the more complicated than that?
SPEAKER_04:So if we so yeah, it's just a matter of your motive. And it's and I think this is a matter too of the colonial mindset where, and I've had this conversation with friends who are from High to First Nations. The idea, like that land back episode, we have this colonial mindset that, oh, well, reconciliation and reparations means that everyone's just kicked off their land and you enslave us and you commit genocide unto us. That's a colonial mindset. That's not what reparations or true justice actually looks like from indigenous or even highest perspectives. Like we're not, and even Africa isn't talking about, well, we're just gonna extract a bunch of stuff from Europe. Yeah. They're not saying that. They're just saying that, like, no, reparations look like everyone flourishing. And it looks like you taking accountability and responsibility for the harm that your country has done for centuries. But it doesn't look like committing genocide into you. It doesn't look like enslaving you and putting you in camps. That's not what they're asking for. None of what they're asking for is what has been done to them.
SPEAKER_00:Exactly. I think that's at the end of the day, isn't that just the main issue that they are beneficiating from it, they have not any harm done to them. So of course they are known mo they're not motivated. Of course, they want to keep that kind of regime, keep that kind of system at work. And then so they can keep benefiting from it. And let's say they are not, even let's say they're not being benefited directly from it. Like undoing it or apologizing for it or making amends for it is not gonna do them any good. So why would they go why are they gonna do it? So I think at the end of the day, they just don't want to. That's right. All that the answer is.
SPEAKER_04:Because they like their power, they like the comfort of riding high on the tide and being in that boat with all the animals while everyone else drowns around them. Because it's it's a lot to ask people to be uncomfortable. Um I want to get into because this is, I mean, it's December, it's the holidays. I know this is not necessarily a topic that, like colonialism, of course, is not a very cheery topic. But I think what is cheery and what is giving us hope and why this matters is because Africa is the voice that we all need to be listening to. The AU, African country leaders would need to be listening to them. And this matters just this matters not just for nations, but for us as well. Because this is this is about if they were able to put this into the UN international law. I mean, I think it's gonna take generations to like implement it. And we we can look at Palestine as an example of genocide, but also colonialism and apartheid, the ways in which there are stronger states within the UN that are vetoing these ceasefire calls because of their power and influence. So I think it's gonna take a lot of time, but I think if we think about how many millions of people were displaced, how many millions of people were dispossessed or traumatized, like reparations and recognition are about restoring humanity and not charity. And I think it's really important to distinguish the two. African leaders are not asking for charity. They're not asking for just a paycheck so that they can just, oh yay, we have a bunch of money. This is about restoring humanity. This is about returning artifacts that belong to them. This is about acknowledging the atrocities and making sure you never do this again, that you have a framework to recognize colonialism and you have metrics in place to not only recognize it, but to actually criminalize it.
unknown:Yeah.
SPEAKER_04:And say this should not be done, that this should not be something that is just accepted. There is also this intergenerational impact. We talk about generational trauma. And I feel like generational trauma, even within the slaveholder and the European conquest are it's embedded. I can trace just even within this past century, I can trace my ancestry to German genociders within Hitler's army. Right? Like there, that that is there, and so that is within my blood and my body. Does that mean I'm responsible for it? No, but it means I'm accountable to it. It means that I'm supposed to learn, it means that I'm supposed to like make sure that you know I'm on the right side of history and I'm making amends for what my ancestors did that was extremely wrong. These are scars that we all are, that we all face. Like you mentioned even just growing up in China and in the colony there. I mean, yeah. Did you learn, did you have to learn Portuguese when you were growing up?
SPEAKER_00:Well, actually they went to English school of English English. Yeah. Yeah, it was English school. Honestly, what I remember the Portuguese compared to the English, the English did a lot to Hong Kong. I think they if we enforce like the I think the Portuguese compared to the English, I don't think they did that much to us in terms of enforcing their culture, language, system, governments. I don't think as much as the what they did to Hong Kong, I'll have to say.
SPEAKER_04:But still, generational.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah.
SPEAKER_04:Your your parents experienced a different kind of Macau than you did. Probably a more rigid one, maybe a more yeah, oppressive one.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, and also like very different than now. Like, like right now, Macau's also experience some remnants of the colonialism in the sense of like they are very different, right? Because of the history of colonization, Macau's culture is slightly different than mainland because of the Portuguese impact. Same as Hong Kong, right? And even I feel like that yellow umbrella revolution happened in Hong Kong, you know, just an example, is also a direct impact of the colonialism history of Hong Kong. I think if Hong Kong never was colonized, there's no question of like, oh, who should rule Hong Kong, who has the sovereignty of Hong Kong. If Hong Kong was never cut out and rented out to the British, then that question would never be discussed, need to be discussed like centuries later.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah. And that's just it. Like it is a it's a global impact. And so it is this type of why this matters and if I'm not gonna say if, when Africa succeeds this, because they are, I believe it. This is just not just for Africa. This is shared global moral reckoning. This is for all of India. This is for all of the First Nations, Metis, Inuit people of Canada. This is for everyone globally. This would like on the map, it would, it would not only, it would just, it would make our humanity better, it would create that global solidarity and like things that are happening like in Palestine and even in Sudan, we wouldn't stand for it. Because we've accepted it. We've accepted the fact that this was wrong, we've made this an international law, and we recognize that we never want this to happen again. This would be something that would be just globally healing for everyone. We wouldn't have refugees coming to Canada if we actually stopped colonizing the countries and eradicating the resources and overthrowing the governments.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. I think it also would help like have this framework, legal framework from other countries, maybe even to follow the footsteps of the EU right to maybe also make colonization illegal and and put in their own constitution. Um so I think it is important as is the pioneer in some sense um to have this conversation, this legal conversation. And this legal conversation eventually will become a bigger conversation.
SPEAKER_05:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:Um, maybe even education in schools, um, so people can learn about the impact of colonization even earlier. So I think it will create better generations.
SPEAKER_04:Yes, yes. And that sense of self-autonomy and agency and creating a better future where people aren't dominating one another, but that we're all living collectively and and cohesively. Um, acknowledgement doesn't just rewrite history, but it challenges current systems shaped by colonial legacies and invites reflection on how privilege and inequality today are connected to that history. Like it's just connected. It's that that warm water that you talked about. So to end on a note of hope and what this moment in time I think could lead to, I think this could be an Hoshan, I would love to hear yours, but I think this is a blueprint for justice. When it's successful, African leaders will inspire similar reckonings worldwide around colonialism, slavery, exploitation, and systemic injustice. I think as much kickback as it will get, I think it will start to build those bridges. People talk about being divisive. Like this isn't going to be a divisive thing. This is actually connecting us better together. Because when you take colonialism, that is what divides people, and that's what did divide people. Many wars were started between people because of colonialism, because of one particular people group being favored or getting privileges over the other. Um, this is about restoring that trust and um ability to work together as nations, as people generationally. And I think that this is gonna be an ongoing conversation. This isn't gonna be a one-time fix. I think it's the beginning of something that's not just uh a legal framework, but it's a cultural framework and political framework, like the way that we govern, the way that we have diplomatic relationships. And this is about healing and justice, isn't about division. Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:I agree. And I think this is also about decolonizing decolonization, right? Yeah. I think having that legal framework there and then having more conversation about the impact of a colonization, I think also helps us to start a process or deepen the process of a decolonization. And you're talking about like divide, that I think this framework is not about divide, division, which I agree. And decolonization itself is a great start to bringing people together. A lot of the division currently in society is created by colonization. Like even think about minorities, like you know, like you talk about India, for example, like homosexual relationships in India was before the British, you know, but in the idea of uh Christianity was very normal. It's very normal. Like even now today, like men holding hands up is a very normal thing.
SPEAKER_04:Two-spirited people, yeah. Exactly.
SPEAKER_00:Or like indigenous, yeah, two-spirited people. Even in China, like homosexuality was never like in demonized, but because of colonization, a lot of these cultures, some homosexuality becomes an illegal thing. Like the like kind of criminalized homosexuality was a colonial concept for many countries. So, like, if we are truly to bring to to criminalize colonization, we can, you know, and we and which helps us to decolonize our cultures in our even our uh legal frameworks in every countries, it will really truly help us to unite people. Yeah. Because colonization has not brought any unity to us. No. It's lightless, yeah.
SPEAKER_04:It's always divided, yeah.
SPEAKER_00:Exactly.
SPEAKER_04:And you're exactly yeah, you're exactly right. Like the that impact just on even personal identity, you know, we talk about collective, but even just that that own self-expression. So I think a call to action. I'm gonna end, I want to end the episode with a call to action from this is again the he is the, where is he? Where are you, sir? Ataf. Ahmed Ataf, Algerian foreign minister. So I want to end with this as a call to action. Quote: What unites us today is not merely a slogan to be raised, but a trust upon all our shoulders. A trust we have no choice but to fulfill, absolute and binding. Let us truly be worthy of this trust, worthy of the sacrifices of all our noble ancestors, and worthy of writing a new chapter that honors our history, uplifts our dignity, and illuminates our future.
SPEAKER_03:End quote. I know it's a little bit.
SPEAKER_04:I'm getting emotional.
SPEAKER_00:Oh no, it's um uplift us, yes.
SPEAKER_04:Because when when one when another person is healed, we all heal. When we see and know that people are hurting and are suffering and have borne the brunt of just unspeakable cruelty. But then when we see that end and when we see that restoration and that healing and that care and that love, it there's something inside us that heals us as well.
SPEAKER_00:It's our empathy, um, which makes us human. Like that is the one element who makes us so different than trees or you know, uh lion in the wild. Like it's our ability to empathize with people and to feel other people's pain, to walk in other people's shoes, and just by by not experiencing it, but just by seeing. Well, actually, we experience it just by seeing. Yeah, we do. I think that is and in many ways, it's such unspeakable power.
SPEAKER_04:It is. Yeah. Because it brings unspeakable joy. Like just this because we see there are things we'll like we'll see people when they're really, really like it. There's a warming in our heart when we see people really happy. Yeah, when we see really yeah, yeah. So anyway, please listeners new, thank you for joining us. Old, thank you for coming back. That just I would say just go to their website, CanadianSala.ca. All the articles are on there. There is an Al Jazeera interview. You can listen to three different perspectives about it, because you know, there are questions about well, how much money does the financial reparations look like? And um, but I think the AU is not stupid. Like they know exactly the voice of the oppressed know exactly what is needed to make this right. So if you want to know the roadmap, like you listen to them, you listen to their voices. This isn't complicated, this isn't rocket science. If we can go to the moon, if we can invent, you know, neurophysics and we can like, I don't know, we we can, you know, start cloning things. I think we can absolutely begin on healing and restoring humanity in a way that is authentic and works and is on terms for those who have borne the brunt of it.
SPEAKER_00:So I agree. Absolutely. Yes.
SPEAKER_04:Anyway, yes. So thank you. And now we are gonna end with a Canadian salad pop quiz.
SPEAKER_00:Yay! I can't wait. I always learn something from it. I hope you learned something too.
SPEAKER_04:Yes, I always learn something. I feel like yeah, we're just like, you know, little encyclopedias walking around.
SPEAKER_00:And to our audience, too, if you don't think you learned anything from our podcast, you know, at least learn something from the pod quiz.
SPEAKER_04:That's right. Or maybe check your headphones. Maybe they're not totally plugged in or charged. So that could be it too. So, Ocean, why don't you go first with your question?
SPEAKER_00:Okay, my question is well, also, you know, uh, of course, according uh related to the topic about colonies. Okay. Um, do you know the first colony in Canada? Successful colony, at least.
SPEAKER_04:Successful colony. Like where it was, or who Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:Or you can either give me the date, uh the year that it was set up, or or the location, anything, or like the person who who were there to help set up the uh success, the first successful colony in Canada.
SPEAKER_04:Is it a British colony? It's sounds it's not it's the French one, the first colony.
SPEAKER_00:Really?
SPEAKER_04:French was the first. Oh my god.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, the French one was the first.
SPEAKER_04:Oh, okay. And where was that?
SPEAKER_00:Where you want me to give you the where? So are you gonna guess the year?
SPEAKER_04:Oh, am I guessing the year? Sorry, I thought I was just guessing.
SPEAKER_00:Either the year or the you're gonna give me the either the year or the year.
SPEAKER_04:Um, um, um, um, um, um either one eight eighteen forty-seven.
SPEAKER_00:Eighteen, wow, okay.
unknown:I don't know.
SPEAKER_00:Wow, you're really far off. It's like two centuries far off.
unknown:Okay.
SPEAKER_04:16?
SPEAKER_00:16.
SPEAKER_04:Oh, really?
SPEAKER_00:1604, yeah.
SPEAKER_04:1604. Oh my gosh. Wow.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, it's the first is a yeah, it's the first French uh settlement.
SPEAKER_03:Where was it in the east?
SPEAKER_00:It's in Port Port Royal in uh Acadia, which is present-day Nova Scotia.
SPEAKER_04:Oh, okay. A note NS. Okay, all right. Well, there you go. Interesting.
SPEAKER_00:I know so long ago.
SPEAKER_04:So long ago. Wow. That just goes to show like how long people centuries people. Oh my gosh. Okay. And we haven't even gotten into the whole argument about like, oh well, European or not uh eastern countries were always colonizing. Have you heard of that? That argument, like, oh well, look at this dynasty and look at the Roman Empire. And it's yeah, okay, there was that, but the most, the broadest and the biggest was Western colonization anyway. So we won't get into that debate.
SPEAKER_00:The the U Yeah, the UK.
SPEAKER_04:So speaking of Western colonization, how many countries have not been formally colonized by Western empires in the world? How many countries?
SPEAKER_00:I know China is not technically formally colonized.
SPEAKER_04:Correct. That's one of them. How many total?
SPEAKER_00:I don't know, like eight.
SPEAKER_04:Okay, is that your final answer?
SPEAKER_00:Yeah.
SPEAKER_04:Okay, you're kind of close. 15.
SPEAKER_00:15.
SPEAKER_04:Oh, so 15 of 237 countries have not been formally colonized. So Japan.
SPEAKER_00:All right, Japan, like Western.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah, Ethiopia, Nepal, Tonga, Iran, China, Mongolia, North Korea, South Korea, Thailand, Afghanistan, Bhutan, Liberia, Turkey, and Saudi Arabia. There were established, like there were like British protectorates.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, or like colon got small colonies there.
SPEAKER_04:Yes, but when you look at like a former.
SPEAKER_00:Like the whole country or its government was over and undertake.
SPEAKER_04:Exactly. Exactly.
SPEAKER_00:By by the U Western power, yes.
SPEAKER_04:Yes.
SPEAKER_00:Like and that's I know a lot. Yeah, I know a lot of these countries have like small, maybe like a city was like a special district that the it was under the British rule, for example. Remember, like in China, like Shanghai was under many countries' rules, even though the whole country was not. But they have like small colony within the country was built.
SPEAKER_04:Yes, exactly.
SPEAKER_00:But the whole country was not.
SPEAKER_04:Like the Opium Wars, I believe, was uh an element of that. Um exactly. Um, and then some portions were annexed by Japan in World War II, but yeah, never that formal. Officially, the whole thing. So there you go. There's 15.
SPEAKER_00:Thank you for that information.
SPEAKER_04:Uh yeah. I mean, Thailand, you've been to Thailand. Uh my brother's been to Thailand, and I've heard it's an amazing country. And it just makes you wonder how much more amazing everything would be if we just didn't colonize each other.
SPEAKER_00:Like, I still remember like when I went to Thailand, I really was shocked that people would eat with their hands. Oh, yeah. Um yeah, I mean, in the shock, in the sense that not like, oh, ew. In the sense that, oh my god, they still can make they still maintain that. Because not a lot of countries still maintain that kind of tradition, right? Oh, because of that. Yeah. But again, the poll was in one of the countries not formally colonized.
SPEAKER_04:True, true. Yes. Oh. Ooh, that's interesting, huh?
SPEAKER_00:I feel like once you've colonize by, you know, some big power that you are you're using forks and knives.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:Forks and knives or chopsticks, like many countries also colonized by China, right? True, true. And I love the people have the agency to keep their culture, to keep their ways of living.
SPEAKER_04:Yes. I love that. So yeah, so let's get back to that. Let's just have everyone thrive and flourish. So, but thank you for joining us, everyone. Please do. Um, every Tuesday we drop a new episode. Um, we'll have a we'll have a more um maybe uh I don't know, a holiday episode. More joyful. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:Holiday-ish.
SPEAKER_04:A holiday-ish episode coming down the road, the pipeline. But this just happened and I felt like it needed attention. Please do share it with your friends and family who do not know about this news or two again and do research the the resources. This is a collective responsibility. We're all in this together. This isn't about collective shame, it's about collective responsibility to make our world better and brighter. Um, you can follow us on our social media platforms, Blue Sky, Instagram, and TikTok. Um, and please send us a message, leave a review, and just yeah, look out for the next episode. Please do. Yes.
SPEAKER_00:I will see you next week.
SPEAKER_04:Okay, bye.
SPEAKER_00:Bye.
SPEAKER_02:And salad is written and produced in British Columbia, Canada by Ho Shin Ho and Andrea McCoy. Theme music is by Navir Avetyan from Pixabay.
SPEAKER_06:This has been the good Jranklin production.
