absurd wisdom
What lies beyond understanding? Beyond certainty? Listen in to conversations between a.m. bhatt and colleagues, confidants, and important thinkers as they tackle questions both timely and timeless, and chat about maintaining your humanity in an ever-evolving world.
You can find a.m. on Instagram and Substack at @absurdwisdom. We are produced and distributed by DAE Presents, the production arm of DAE (@dae.community on Instagram and online at mydae.org).
absurd wisdom
Chasing the Fake Rabbit, There's Something Wrong with My Ghost, How to Be a Stranger, & The Complications of Poverty.
This episode delves into deep discussions around mental health, the struggle to find meaning in life, and the impact of societal expectations. The participants share personal experiences, challenges, and conflicting emotions. The conversation touches on the importance of creating space for individual exploration and discovery.
IMPORTANT NOTE: This episode contains discussions around the topic of suicide, which may be distressing for some listeners. If you are struggling with thoughts of suicide or know someone who is, seek help immediately. You are not alone and there are resources available to help. Consider reaching out to a trusted medical professional or contacting an organization dedicated to crisis support, such as the National Suicide Prevention Lifeline at 1-800-273-TALK.
Be mindful that everyone's experience with mental health is unique, and what is discussed in this episode may not align with your own experience.
Please take care of your mental health, and reach out to a professional if you're in need.
The National Suicide Prevention Lifeline 1-800-273-TALK.
You can find a.m. on Instagram and TikTok at @absurdwisdom. We are produced and distributed by DAE Presents, the production arm of DAE (@dae.community on Instagram and online at mydae.org).
The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the speakers and do not necessarily reflect the views or positions of any entities they represent. While we make every effort to ensure that the information shared is accurate, we welcome any comments, suggestions, or correction of errors.
You can contact us at daepresents@mydae.org.
IMPORTANT NOTE: This episode contains discussions around the topic of suicide, which may be distressing for some listeners. If you are struggling with thoughts of suicide or know someone who is, seek help immediately. You are not alone and there are resources available to help. Consider reaching out to a trusted medical professional or contacting an organization dedicated to crisis support, such as the National Suicide Prevention Lifeline at 1-800- 2 7 3 TALK. Be mindful that everyone's experience with mental health is unique, and what is discussed in this episode may not align with your own experience. Please take care of your mental health, and reach out to a professional if you're in need. the National Suicide Prevention Lifeline 1-800- 2 7 3 TALK.
a.m.:And the voices in today's conversation are Angel Cruz, Kyley Komschlies, Mohameth Seck, And our producer as always is Scott Amore all are colleagues of mine at DAE. Let's listen in.
Scott:Kyley had some dark stuff you wanted to start with. So.
Kyley:No. I said it was a question that that could potentially be dark.
a.m.:Did you disclose it yet or?
Kyley:No? Due to some of the conversations I've had recently with folk. And what you brought up in kind of huddle yesterday. Like, whereas life is this, like, can feel like this grind right now. It's winter time. Doesn't feel like anyone's having fun. And so like, just my general question is like, Why keep going?
a.m.:Wow. Yep.
Kyley:Like it seems like that's a question, like a lot of people are, it's the answer of like, I am just going, because that's what I'm doing right now. And I'm wondering like, Why?.
a.m.:Yeah. So I I'm gonna I'm. I'm going to reframe your question. And we've used as a starting point. Okay. So. The question I'm hearing you ask.. What happens? If the dog in the dog race realizes that the bunny, he or she is chasing. Yeah, isn't a real bunny. What's the reason to keep running. Is that it?
Kyley:Yeah, I think that's part of it. It's a mixture of that. Like, how do you know that the money or chasing is actually the bunny? As one is one. And it's not, not totally that, but as someone who is often found himself, just like doing the thing, because that's what I do. Yeah. It's a mixture of that. And then it's like this continued practice. Like I started this like kind of prayer slash mantra with myself coming from silence of God. But like, God help me live my life as opposed to like, God help me live or, or continue to get this thing. It's like helped me actually like live and experience this thing. For me when that Why gets fuzzy, that living gets harder. Yup. And so that's kind of where that question comes from myself and then talking to other people is just like, things are hard up. I'm still, I'm still going. I'm still going. I'm still going. And rarely do I hear those conversations of like, This is why I'm going as opposed to the act of going. Which leads more to your question of like, yeah, I'm chasing this rabbit.
a.m.:Yeah. I mean I'll I'll I'll I'll continue. Just, just framing of this question. I'll I'll. The darkness on it. Sure. And trigger warning for folks listening. But, but, but Camus who's is. You know, I'm not big on philosophers per se. But, but, but Camus would be my favorite philosopher. If we went down that path, mainly for his writing. His, his narrative writing. said that there is only one question for a human being. The first question. I'm paraphrasing, but the first question, which is, should I commit suicide? And then in confronting that question. Now the whole thing, because what he's pointing to there, like it sounds dark. And of course it is dark in a certain way, but what he's pointing to is that the foundational question is you must generate meaning. Yeah. You know, in order to answer that. Question in the negative? No, I will not commit suicide. Requires that you generate meaning. And so for the existentialist and for the absurdist. This sort of acknowledgement that that life is absurd, that this kind of chase this. The things we do just I'll be in, if you step back and look at them and it's like, it's just. It's absurd. It's just. It makes no tell it. And in the face. And so, but that's not the end. Right. You also said that the realization that, that, you know, the, the whole thing is fundamentally absurd. It's not the end point. That's the starting point is okay. If that is so now. For what will I live? And there's an imperative to define that there's an obligation. Requirement to define that and to divine that every day. You put that in the context of a society that. Fundamentally. Two minutes in folks I'm already on my. It's the society of a tangent, but you put that in the context of a society that from day one, Takes you out of that question. Around what is your generated meeting and then replaces it with here's the meeting. Here's where you're supposed to be. Here's what you're supposed to chase. Here's what you. Here's your supposed to ride go and then reward you for going, right. And so. Dog running around the race shop, chasing the rabbit because you're suppose to want the rabbit. And so it leads you away from that question that, you know, the camera and the existentialist pointing to, which is no. What does the meaning? I'm generating.
Angel:I feel like that's a question that. Really won't be answered. And so I agree with you. When you talk about society, because that's exactly what it is, but. At some point. You have to separate yourself from society to actually kind of do some self-reflect things towards yourself and. Let's see, what is the meaning of living right. I would definitely say that. It could get really dark. We like, like why. Why, why should I keep going? You know And at the end of the day, it comes down to the choices that you make.'cause some people really do take that choice. I'm going to commit suicide because. I don't have nothing to live for. I can't do this no more. I it's just too much for me. Right. It goes back to how powerful our brain is. Where we can actually train our minds to go down a certain. And. What we put our minds to is pretty much what will take place. So the meaning. I mean. I would definitely say like in general, meaning will be liability, especially if you have you. You know, humans that rely on you. That is a huge reason. But when it comes to yourself, That can be a question. It could go on for like, Ages.
a.m.:I'm just sitting here thinking about it. Okay. Do we really want to get into this or do we want it? Yeah, let's. Really get into this to the degree, to which, you know, we're up, we're getting into this. So. I had an obviously failed suicide attempt as a young human. 13. And The sort of reflection back on it. You know, there's no way to be in this world. And be me. I don't even know what me is. At 13. But what I have clarity about is that there's no way to be in this world. Given what the invitations and the pressures and the. Whole thing is. The, what I do know is I can't be me. Without even knowing who me is right at that age. I have no clue. That's, you know, the common version of, of where you get to that extremes. I'm sure there are many paths that saying I'm sure that chemical issues I'm sure. Right. But I say that. To then say. What I think the Experience actually was, was. Not. There's no way to be me in this world. Like that's kind of one layer, but then deeper layer that is. Oh, I'm already dead. Like, I actually don't exist in this thing. I'm playing what I'm supposed to play, but I don't actually exist in this thing. And so, and I'm tired of the role. I'm tired of the, yeah, because again, I saw the bunny, the bunnies fake. But what there is to do is to chase the bunny. And there's so I'm not, I'm already not here. So what's the point. Right. Unfortunately having, you know, Not read yet. Kevin with that point. It did after that experience, get the realization. Oh yeah, shit. I gotta, I gotta, I gotta make up a bunny. That works for me. And then, you know, A good healthy Hardy, fuck you to. What all the various stuffed bunnies were that were being thrown at me. We did get dark.
Kyley:I started I said so.
Angel:I mean. I feel that it's necessary because. Darkness exist. Yes.
Kyley:And I do. And then I asked this question truly, because I think people ask themselves this question. And I often I've asked myself this question during this time of the year. Fortunately, I'm not in that place right now. When I, I have in the past, my approach was very different. It wasn't, I can't be me. It's that? Me causes harm. Hmm. Right. I'm I'm in the way I'm problematic. My softest is, is making the world a worse place. Yeah.
Scott:I think we work our way through day to day. Whatever it is we choose to do with our time sometimes. It chooses us. Depending on how our life has been. Unfolding. But there's always this illusion of separateness, I think. When did you know. When, when do you hit that point where you realize that you're not really separate, but the encouragement is to, I think you said in the last podcast, like. You know, individuate. Way too. Claim your own space. Has to come full circle to this idea of like I'm part of a bigger picture. You know, sometimes you don't have that. In the moment. In those desperate moments when you need it, the most. And if that happens often enough, you can start to believe that. I am separate. I am no good. I am bad. I am damaging whatever it is. Like your narrative that you're told from other sources. Thing that changed it for me was it was really late in life too. I was probably. Late thirties, 40 of like this idea of, you know, oh, like life is kinda like a dance. You know, like the point is not to get someplace on the floor. It's just a dance. And, you know, I'm not a dancer, but you get the idea. The point of the dance is the dance. And. You know, that, that in the. Sort of sacred stuff that I was reading. You know, There's there's war there's. Love there's, you know, passion and all these things are. Told through ritual. And celebration of ritual and then. What are you going to do? Is the big question. Everybody kind of panics, like, what am I going to do? Oh my God, what am I going to do?
Angel:You know, growing up. I've always felt like I was seeing from someone else's lens. And just looking at everybody. How. They were better than me and I mean, siblings. And also I'm ashamed just because, you know, being in a foster home. And then. You know, Transitioning. To back to my biological mom. Was a huge transition. And so. It was two different atmospheres. And so. Being in foster home, I was loved care for. And I felt like that was very important, those first five years of my life, because it's, you know, it's needed, you. You know, especially at that stage. And then going, transitioning back. Two. Okay. It was different. It was chaos. And I had siblings and. We were treated differently. And so growing up, it was just like, oh, okay. She's better than me. What's so special about her. You know, Not getting the same treatment. And so that led me growing up. To seeing things like from different lens, like. That's how I need to be in order to be loved or accepted, or look that Mr. I'm way. And. It wasn't until, I mean, many things happened throughout. That gap. 13 years old until I was like 18. It just. A lot of things happen. It just came down to like, F everyone I'm going to do this my way. I'm going to choose. To live. Life. That I want to live. And it wasn't more, it wasn't like an arrogant. Prideful. Attitude. It was more like, I'm going to be who I want to be, because I don't need to live this way or act this way to be accepted. I'm going to actually dedicate myself. To learning. I'm a dedicate myself to doing whatever it is that I have to do to become this person that I want to be. And this person that I want to be is pretty much become the person that I would have loved for people. And I ain't going to. You know, be specific on who, but. For people to look at me the way I wanted to be looked at. And so, yeah, it just got to the point on like F the whole world. I don't care. I don't even care what you say. More like it is what it is, but. That transition itself. Also led to a dark. Moment of my life, because then layers started to come off and peel off and I'm like, oh, okay. I didn't know that. I still felt this way at. I didn't know that this was still attached to me, you know? And it did lead for me to attempting suicide. At one point. I do appreciate the people that I was around at the time. But it was a really, really dark moment. And. I don't know how I overcame it, but. It was hard. It was hard. It was hard. But I would definitely say when I did overcame it. It made me. Be as strong a person. Instill that questions though remains. Why am I living? For what. And so I just told myself I'm not living for myself. I'm living. Another person. I'm living for whoever I'm around them. I'm living for whoever. I can impact. You know, In a way that will help them. You know, so it's, it's definitely how you train your mind. Hmm.
Scott:I'm curious that did that change when you had kids. Looking at a couple of you. Did you feel like something. Aligned differently.
Angel:It did, but it took time. Because when I became a parent, I had no idea. I thought I knew what I was doing, but I had no idea what I was doing. And he took time. To actually. See that. She's. A whole human being. You know, She actually exists. You know, But yeah. Yeah. And even then like, Even then. We're still our own self. So. That question is still remains. You know what I mean? It's still remains because you're one person. And you still have to get up and live every day. Yeah. Oh, Hmm.
a.m.:Public therapy session. I to answer your question. I don't want to Dodge your question. Cause that's what actually had me from the thing about the group. The thing kids were, I say, I always say kids. I have one biological child. I have two nephews that I consider my children. By the time that. Th they were all born. I was well past, like I had a clarity about myself and that, you know, And so these sort of issues just weren't on the table and. You know, the last sort of phase of my marriage. A version of the same darkness, I think sort of entered because I think there was, there was a similar. Not anywhere near, you know, but, but. That sense of, you know, I'm chasing a rabbit. That I actually don't want. Like in terms of the lifestyle, in terms of the, you know And again, I, I don't know if this is the only way people get to the places we're talking about. Right. But there does seem to be a thing. In this society that it is very difficult for people to break out of. Who they're known to be. And. To internalize. As who I know, I be based on who I've known to be. And then now I can not only break out of that out there, but I can't break out of this in here. And yet there's a part of me that knows this ain't me.
Angel:Would you say is because the expectation. Of what other people.
a.m.:I think a good, it can be healthy things like expertise, a sense of genuine obligation and commitment and care. Like you said, like I can't. You know, like I actually, I heard you saying I'm having a negative impact, which implies. That I actually care about these people. Put the world, right. And so it can come from that. I think. It can come from more burdened, like, you know people force me to be this way. Like they won't let me, right. So I think it can be. Either side of it. But, but, but rightly or wrongly, I think the, the individual senses that There's no way to be me here. There is this, this, you know, Again, there is who I'm supposed to be. And then maybe even an internalization of that. And some part of me, whether I'm aware of it or not. Is just like this ain't us, this ain't us, this ain't us. And again, back to that, that, that. Yeah, that, that dog racing thing it becomes, it just becomes you realize. The rabbit's fake, but you're still running at full speed and it's like, whoa, huh? Y. But there's no other thing to do in Rome. Well, what else am I doing on the racetrack? If I'm not running after the. What is there to do here? Yep. It's a loop. Yeah.
Kyley:They mowed their naming flowers in the middle of me to go smell.
Scott:I remember this. I had a particularly like rough patch probably 15 years ago or so, just trying to figure out, like, what am I doing? Well, you know, am I going the right way? Am I doing the right thing? Am I. Should I just. Do the opposite of my instincts, you know, for a change and see if that helps. You. Just trying to figure it out. And a good friend of mine. Sent me this hand, drawn postcard that he made to have a little, like a little Pac-Man and a ghost on it and stuff. And it was just like this. You know, saying hello kind of thing. But I had been, I had told him kind of what I was going through and stuff, and he, his way of. Addressing it was, he said, There was something wrong with your ghost. Hmm. You know, and I was like, there's, you know, it kind of resonated with me in a way of like, oh yeah. Like the spirit that animates me is confused or caught or something. And it needs to be kind of shaken up a little bit. And it really just took like a, you know, a trip out of my own. Out of my own house, out of my own environment, out of my own group of friends and just travel. Just go some place I've never been before and just kind of look around. And, and when I got back, I kind of had more clarity as to like what was missing. But that phrase, it's something wrong with your ghost is going to really resonated with me. And I think about it quite a bit.
a.m.:It's the way you just set apart. Part of that Scott ruins. When I do road trips a lot. Right. And fewer the last couple of years, and then I would love, but I love like road trips and long road trips. And I. I've said this to people all the time. It's either proactively or in response to like, Like, but you don't. Yeah, you're on the road for a month and you don't know anybody and you're not going with them, but I'm like, One of the things I love about road trips is not meeting strangers. The although that's great. But it's getting to be a stranger. Everywhere I go, I am an absolute, I could be anybody. I could be a CIA spy. I could be a wall street banker. I am a stranger. And they get to go in those places and just generate myself. I love that. It's free of all their, no rabbits inherently. There are no rabbits. Yeah.
Mo:What do you mean when you say there's no rabbits, like there's.
a.m.:There's no expectation of who I'm supposed to be.
Mo:What are you supposed to like, what are you supposed to chase or,
a.m.:Yeah. I'm supposed to be, I'm supposed to act like I walk into a place where people don't know me. At all right. Particularly if it's a different geography. Right. Like, like a different subculture in the country. There's nothing for me to live up to. Other than the broad, basic human boundaries of don't be rude. And don't be, which is fine. But there's nothing I have to perform. Whether I want to, or not. I have to. I have to actively generate. Well, I am here. Versus like I walk in this building. I think we all have really good relationships. I think we all have free to, I feel freedom to kind of like I'm having a whatever day to kind of say that. And we make that part of our practice, but I walk in. And you all know who I am. You know what I mean in the same, like I know who you are, there's a certain amount of that you can't escape, even when it's healthy. But when I'm road tripping and I'm in some dive bar in, in, in some tiny town in, in, in Tennessee or wherever. Nothing. They know nothing. Yeah, the CEO and nothing. I'm just, I mean, Now there is a, like a dive bar in a small town. You know, in Tennessee. There are some things certainly. Sure for sure. As a brown man. Yeah. Potentially, right. So, so a certain amount of that you can't escape, but
Scott:you got to stand up and be like, all right, I'm going to call it huddle here. Then we're going to check in. I find the regions that we sort of have a historical sense of not being accepting to everybody. Ironically or the places where people seem to be most friendly and open and we'll have a conversation with you. You know, on, on multiple levels. You know, just even if it's just small talk, so it's this weird kind of like. I feel like maybe there's a sense of like, see we're not so bad. You know, We'll say hello to everybody and, you know, Ask you how you're doing and you know, where'd you get those shoes or whatever, whatever it is there they use to kind of break the ice. But that's covering up you know, A whole lot of mess. Under there you. Just like, you know, When somebody says. Bless his heart. But they really mean. Yeah.
Mo:Took me a while to realize what that meant. It's all someone from North Carolina.
Kyley:I don't know if anyone else resonates this, but my, my Why for continuing to go is very much based on the why I didn't want to go for a period of time and making the world a better place for the, the, the me. Of the now. I don't know, like, not me as a person, but like who. Who I could have used around me in that point in my time, if someone was just glad to see you. Looking out asking questions inviting you. This soup and. What do you want to be about? Not in a way of like, you have to be about it, but like, how do you source what it is you're about in the world? That's something that I think about sometimes.
Mo:That question was asked more when I was a kid. We're on other people. Looked at what I was doing. And he said, you know, like there's a lot of, oh, you look like you could do this, or you shouldn't do that. Oh, that makes me wonder how much that shaped. Me person with tech. Cause I thought tech was cool. I like electronics and all that. Growing up. I don't. I wish people asked me more of that question. Yeah. Because I feel like the. When you're young. People look at your data. They're kind of like. I don't know. John someone making a decision.
Kyley:I think something we forget sometimes is tech is a vehicle. Engineering is a vehicle. Math is a vehicle like they, aren't not, they don't necessarily have to be the end result. They are a. A a way to do something right. Poetry, all those things are ways of, of. Doing some form of work in the world. And without that about. You're just making tech. Which can be okay. But I haven't found it to be fulfilling for myself. Part of the reason I left engineering to engineer wasn't. It was what I was doing with what I had, that that actually mattered. It had gave me a reason to keep doing stuff. All right.
Mo:Did you ever ask yourself a, why this, why this pathway.
Kyley:Why engineering? A hundred percent know why I chose engineering. I can, I can, I can tell you the moment I chose to be an engineer and my lifetime. I think we actually talked about the podcast. I was building stuff with what connects and my dad was like many, be a great engineer. And then there was some time down the road, like that was like, oh, that is a thing in my brain. And then someone said to me, you're good at math and you want to make money. Go to college for engineering and like cool. That's it. We did it. We're doing it. I'm going to have a fence and a car and a family. It's going to be great.
Angel:But that goes back to what most. I was like, yeah. Oh, yeah. What are you into? What are you? What would you like, would you like to try this? Would you like to try that versus, oh, I see. Becoming this, you know,
Mo:there wasn't much of an exploratory real. Or more questioning. Yeah. Yeah.
Kyley:The funny thing was I got the car and the fence didn't get the family that had been worked out. Cause it all kind of fell apart. Because of the engineering. In some capacity. But then I was like, cool. Now I want to grow food. And that's where I actually started like exploring something I inherently was interested in. Which was like, how do you make the world work? Like we have all this stuff. How do you actually like mesh it in a way that makes sense while helping people at the same time? The idea of taking what people throw away, putting it into compost, making more food, and then giving it to folk. Blew my mind.
Mo:Hm. That's almost like going back to the analogy with the dogs and a rabbit. It sounds like you realize that rabbit. Was it. Yeah. Yeah. That was the. Yeah.
Kyley:Yeah. And that, and that inherently touched on things that I was actually interested, but I didn't know. Nobody like, no question. The idea of like, how does stuff work together? That's what I really liked it. And how do you work with people to solve problems that actually matter. And like make people's lives better. That's really what I wanted to be about when I was. In high school or whatever. And. I got transformed into making. Helicopter parts for people. Busking on the street. You need a rotor. Five bucks. By far.
Angel:That changes my perspective of. You know, being a parent. How am I looking at?
a.m.:I think there's another again, we usually get the, the, the. Yeah, the rabbit analogy and I. But th one of the, you know, fresher diseases we have in the world right now, it's like thoughts will diseases. Is, is this sort of Yeah, for the first toxic positivity. But, but, but we've now got This sort of toxic relationship, I think with purpose. Hmm, where it's like the assumption that there is a golden rabbit, you have to define for yourself. And I think the rabbit, I think the. The flip may be. The realization, not of. Clarifying like that. Why that. A couple of you were referring to. I think the realization may be not that the why is about the nature of the rabbit. But the nature of how I run. Right. That that that sense of meaning is not in the outcome. But in how I want to run. You know what moves me in my movement. Because if it's about defining the perfect rabbit for me, Running is still going to get tiring. Yeah.
Angel:So. I mean, he was talking about like running earlier in a racetrack. I'm just like, oh, there's no money to chase now I'm running in circles. Like the first thing that came to mind was okay. I'm going to stop running in circles and I'm going to choose to go. This track and just go find my way. And I feel like oftentimes we. Have to take different paths to kind of explore different areas, to see. Like to define that part of ourselves. cause even just chasing the bunny around. Could get tiring, boring, and like, okay, what's the meaning I give up. I'm not chasing you anymore. You just stay right there. I ain't running up to you no more.
Mo:Sometimes I'd like to get lost. I go off the path and then just not know where to go after that and just, just sit there and then find something else to chase. For me, I like getting lost and just. It's an adventure. And just figuring out what's what's what, where to go.
Scott:You kind of see something new. Yeah. Because you could
a.m.:Be a stranger. Yeah. Be a stranger to yourself. Like, I don't know the path. Yeah. It's it's it's what creative work is. It's why I push create, you know, like it's not a. It's not about getting into a museum or getting an album publish. Are they like art is the access point to all this stuff. Like to make something truly new, you have to first get lost. You can't write original, short story until you first get lost. You can't write an original song until you first get lost. Yeah, you can only replicate songs. You can only replicate the essays. If you, if you were on a path, you know, Chuck D never make the same album twice. Great. Bit of advice. They're going to watch it and make the album again. Once you're successful, they're gonna watch make the album get mad and never make the same album twice. That's death. But that, that, that wanting to wander off the field, like, I, I absolutely one of the things we like don't do this encourage kids to take time off. Like that gap year idea or that walk about idea. Like it's so critical at that age, I think to just. Go bump up and not lay around and watch TV or whatever, but to go bump up against the world, go do a thing, right. And, and, but I think with that wandering is about as, again, not finding like what's, what's the right golden money for me. But, but understanding, oh yeah, man. I enjoy. Hills. Like my version of running. If it's got Hills, I love it. Or I enjoy. Uneven terrain. Or I enjoy flat terrain, right? Like. This is how I run it. If I can run like this. To the point somebody made earlier, it almost doesn't matter what the rabbit is. As long as I could run like this. I'm good with life.
Angel:I think that's why I had a hard time. Throughout my life sticking to doing one thing. And I eventually became Jean of all trades. Because. Anytime I something caught my interest. And. I began curious about I'm like, I want to learn how to do this. I'm going to learn how to do that. And, you know, eventually with some of those things, Aye. I have this Gale or the tool, but. It's not something that I. Pursued. But it's there. You know,
Scott:Yeah, I found that too. I did try something because it's interesting to you and you go through it, but it doesn't really make your heart sing. And then. Just having a few times for me. Five 10 years down the line I'm called to, to do something in that skill is exactly what's needed. And it's like, oh, Dan was what it was for. That was what the original inquiry was about. You know, I had to get out of my own way. To like, make it work. Hmm.
Angel:Now, so think like I see why like some. Even college students. After people go to college. Whatever they went to college for. It's not what they want to do. So they spent, you know, I mean, I didn't really attend college for that long but I've heard so many stories. Like you spent so many years studying this thing, and once you're done with it, like. I don't even want to do this, or, you know, I've seen people. Actually go to those years and when they're done, they're not even. In the field. So it's like, that's, that was like years of your life that you wasted. Yeah.
Mo:Some of the people I know who are. Does I. Because people told them what their, why was. And mostly from parents. Or everybody was going to college. So they had to go or in all my friends and calling, what am I going to do? I think those people were scared to get lost. So today he just jumped on the. I'm going to college' and I got a few friends, went in undecided. To figure out what they want to do. Find a major, graduated. Still it's still not what they want to do.
Angel:Even with some of my students, when I engage with them in conversations, I. I asked, like, what do you like to do? What are you interest? Yeah. And some will be like, I don't know. Or, you know, I really start, like picking their brains. Like, what about this? Are you. Into cooking are you into, like, you're not just naming all these things to see like water to interest, you know? And. Kind of helping them. Figure out like how they can navigate. And use that and put it into what they're doing here. But I do hear a lot of, I don't know, And I think this okay. Because, you know, there's still growing and still developing that. I feel like that age is. You know, you're like a sponge. Kind of, I don't know if that makes sense.
Scott:I think the. There's a sense that kids these days, you know, we always like kids these days. But there's a sense that they're aloof and they don't care and they're not paying attention and stuff, but I feel like they're absorbing everything. Constantly and no. Exactly what's going on. Even, you know, too much the outer circles. Yeah. Where they are.
a.m.:Too much. He has too much information, which further forces, this kind of sense of what you have to do, what you have to take care of, what you think we've got like. You know, 12 year olds who, you know, Indirectly and maybe even certain ways directly. I've been told that they have to fix the planet. They're going to be responsible for fixing the environment. Yeah. You know, like that's insane. That's why I'm going to be the next 60 years. Yeah. It's one of the guys who has to fix the planet, like.
Kyley:Or live in a unfixed planet. Those are your two options.
a.m.:That's what I'm going to be, right? Yep. I'm going to die or I'm going to chase. A shit ton of money. So I could shield myself right from the impending doom. Like those are my sort of set options, like, ah, Yeah. Yeah.
Scott:As if the regular amount of existential dread was. Right enough. We're going to add a little frosting on there for you.
a.m.:And we. Do it so casually, like, it's just, we just do a matter of fact, we just kind of throw it out there just from like, Sixth grade teachers teaching, you know about climate change and what you need to know. We do it on the positive side. Somewhere, you. We're in full therapy mode. So let's do the whole thing. The big catalyzing event free. So I, I was, I was I mean this legitimately No joking. Like I had a disease state called intelligence. Like extreme intelligence. And it got noticed in like fifth and sixth grade. And then. When I was 13 going into high school. They're like, holy shit. And I went through like a week's worth of like testing kind of things. Right. Got tested with a hundred and fifty five, two hundred sixty IQ. And they were like, you're doing calculus classes, you're going to do like, and that was like, like, oh my God, I'm locked. Like, this is going to be my life and I didn't care. And all those things. I cared about music and I cared about movies and I cared about people and I cared about, and now I was like, and everybody was excited for me. This was the nightmare. Like they were like, oh, you were sent. You know,
Scott:put this plant under the grow lights.
a.m.:Yeah, the hyper grow lights, man. That's. I'm taking calculus classes freshman year. Like you. You're doing the thing, kid. You, this is amazing. And I was like, Ah, but without having awareness at that point, you're not emotionally prepared for any of that. And so I was like, I can't, I can't do this. I can. And then it was four years of just, you know, after getting past that experience by full high school, it was like, just like. Just, you know, and I got a scholarship to Rensselaer and physics at the end of high school. Because, you know, I could just kind of coast through the thing while I was engaging in all sorts of, you know, let's say experimentations, On the side and chasing the grateful dead around. Having a lot of fun. And being self-destructive in a certain point of doubt. And that was another, I mean, that point, fortunately, I was going to mature enough that, that, you know, Like I was going off and I had this thing, like. This is going to go. This is going to be, nobody told me. Any of you are still alive and listening. God dammit. You didn't tell me about theoretical physics. I can get into more philosophical and artistic. inquiry. Right. Though I imagine. You know, being in a, you know lab got a one up to Troy, went up for the program, was like, oh my God. Just going to being at a bench for the rest of my life or some version of that. And at that point I didn't. You know, again, I had enough wits about me, but I, but I just opted out. You know, it's like just blew it off. Then went and did a degree in. World music and blah, blah, blah. But like that's a case where brought my point is that I take care of. So like everybody around the thing was positive. Everybody thought they were out for my best interest and nobody had any attention that they were fucking killing me. Almost literally. Yeah. Yep.
Mo:Goodwill hunting. You reminded me of. As well as looking on the site, that sounds like a good little. Yeah.
a.m.:He internalized all the anger. I, he externalized all the anger. I internalized it. I got into self abuse versus a what would Damon's character?
Angel:Yeah. What if you would. Took that route. I mean, what if is, what if like.
a.m.:So. Yeah, this is a full therapy. A session. I had an older brother. Who died? At about six months from complications of poverty. Which is my, you know, Dark humor version of. He died of diarrhea. Like something they should not have happened for lack of a just basic, you know medicine. Died before I was born and he would have been the eldest. And, you know, the Indian family I'll just, and he would have been the one that came to America because we could only afford to bring one. When my mom came. So he would have come. And I would've stayed behind. So this is part of it. You said ghost earlier. I got a twinge of it because it sits with me. There's a part of me. That is like, I'm leading his life. All right. Because he would've came over, he would have had these experiences. I have no clue who he would have been, but in terms of like the, you know, it's, it's like an actor that's stepped into a different role, a role that was cast for somebody else. And I think that may have actually created a certain kind of freedom in hindsight. But I've always had that sense of, you know, It was also the, what if question leads me there, right? Because like, I I've got, what if on three dimensions? You know Because the way that things should have played out is I was in India. And grew up there and didn't come over here until like high school or college age, which is one thing. So down to the family, And then, then, you know, I mean in India with the, you know, Random luck of the draw disease state. I do think extreme intelligence is a disease state. Great. I think they have access to horrible thing to lead from. There's a lot of good research on that actually at this point inverse relationship between happiness and IQ past 120. But, but with that disease state in the Indian context, at that point in time, there. There's no. Remote possibility. Ability that I could have avoided. That path. No. There was no music program I was going into and there was no grateful dead. There was no, like there, none of that. So, so, yeah, so I got the What if on a variety of dimensions.
Scott:I remember you talking about that before, and you had, you had used the, the way it was described as a bit, you were a begged child.
a.m.:Yeah. So in that tradition ones, you know, if you lose a child particularly a male child because patriarchal society. And then even more extreme your first male child. Right. So that. The child born after that is yeah, basically like, like on loan from the Lord. Like you were prayed and God hasn't decided whether you can keep it or not. So for the first year, you're not allowed to. Bye at anything, no clothing. It has to be like used clothing from somebody else and all this stuff. Yeah. Yeah, that was the whole.
Scott:Yeah, I remember that. That idea. And then I came up in some, some something I was reading about, you know, I was reading about my. Cultural background. And there's a very similar thing in the Southern Italian. Religious, you know, sort of sense of like there's for the first. Like nine months or something you have to live as if the child is not yours, you're taking care of it for somebody else. Huge thing. And the. Yeah. So it's an sense. Of. You know, All right. We'll give you, we'll give it to you, but you know, We have to see if you can keep it. If you deserve to keep this child. As yours.
a.m.:I mean, you know, human beings are just so insanely resilient. If you think about how that type of mythology goes up, it's actually a psychological protective device for the parents because. Yeah. Parents who have children who die young, have a higher probability of. Other children dying young because of some genetic reason or whatever. And so this kind of mythology goes up and it provides a certain kind of psychological prophylactic for the parent. Where it's like, don't get too attached, but for cosmic reasons, right? So that if that second child also passes, which again is going to be a higher probability than, you know, for if your first one didn't pass. It's less of a blow. Right. I'd imagine something like that is why all stories like this build up for practical reasons. Yeah. And so, and I'm sure, you know, rural India. yeah. A lot of infant deaths. Yeah. So,
Scott:yeah, from, you know, What we think of as preventable right now, but the timer devastate.
a.m.:Complications of poverty, man. Aye. Aye. Aye. Quote, unquote, enjoy that phrase. I think it underscores. A reality. We still allow to exist in the world. Unnecessary. It's a fucking miracle we're all here. Yeah. the rabbit. Can we just create our own DAE rabbit. Jeez a rabbit. If you're looking for one. Lately, we just like together. But like, What would that mean? That's the one. That's the question. I don't, I I've been toying with, I actually looked at vendors. And actually sort of talking about the idea of a unicorn as a mascot in the context of what unicorn means in the tech world and the entrepreneurship world. I did. Do you have a unicorn is likely that one in a million. You know, thing that is, you know, But the idea here would be. Everyone's got an inner unicorn and the work here is to find your unicorn. That's one unique thing that only can come from you. And that's your unicorn. Right. The record is not the one in a million. The unicorn is the one thing in me that unique expression. So I thought that would be kind of cool little, you know, unicorn plushies that are. Call get shoulder tattoos. Okay. It's temporary tent.
Kyley:But I think that's that's. I mean, that is something. And there's two things I want to connect to. I don't know about it. I'm going to work. The conversation that you said about being able to basically claim. This next loss. To God. Is is an interesting approach to this conversation as well. That could be beneficial or not beneficial, where like, if it's bigger than you, it's no longer about you, which then it can kind of Sue some of this through periods of difficulty. And I think we can use that sometimes as a potential tool. And I've used it in the past where like, it's not about like this moment in time. It's about these moments in time. As a way to reconnect with that kind of. That why? Why have we keep moving forward? And I, I, I do continue to ask that question, like in, within the org, like how do we continue to make space for both students and staff? So. B bring, bring their unicorn aspect out in this thing. Yeah. I wonder about it sometimes. I don't know. Yeah.
Scott:I'm here viewing things externally. I'm not the. Involved directly in a lot of what's happening. And I see. Still, you know, the sort of. Older. You know, Montessori. Ethic, you know kids learn through play and pleasure. They're playing with something they're discovering something and there's a sort of forward momentum that comes from that. That is less of. What's the next thing it's more about, this is great. And then discover something new and that kind of stuff. So. Did it, you know, the unicorn horns starts to pop out a little bit.
Kyley:Yeah. And there is an interesting where we're actually talking about on debrief yesterday, where one of our educators is like, Hey, so what I noticed about the content was as a student started kind of going out and finding other information. On making video games and I was like, perfect. Like that's, that's the turning point and kind of that thing where it's gone from this, the stuff I'm consuming to like i"m now, starting to question the wonder. And like, Yeah. That's cool. That's the spark. That's the, yeah. That's like, oh, cool. So you have a question that you don't know how to answer right now, and you have something inside your game that you're making in that you don't know what to do with, and we can't give it to you. First step. It's baby steps.
Scott:You probably remember from engineering school, it's like, no, you don't do that. There's the method. Which method are you going?
Kyley:That's exactly what it is. It is. It is the method. This is, this is the formula you use to figure out this question. Do you think you put these two formulistic. Figure out this question. I don't know how to close this conversation out. We put a little hat on it.
a.m.:But, yeah, we've thrown around the word suicide a dozen times in this conversation, but I think. You know, we shouldn't post the the hotline because you just, you don't know who's listening and what state they're in and we we are, we are not clinicians and we are not any of that, but if your local. And you're confused. Assuming you're safe. You feel free to come and hang out. And we're we're place. You can come hang out if you're confused. Make Tea. We'll make TEA we've got Tea. We'll hang out. Yeah. We will vet you though to make sure you're safe for our, for our broader community. But that's it safe is the only criteria. Other than that all are welcome.
