How is working in a bookstore like playing a video game? Interview with the bookseller and events manager at Fireside Books

Have you ever wondered what it would be like to work in a bookstore? According to Rebecca, bookseller and events manager at the independent bookstore Fireside Books, who we interview for this episode, it's a lot like playing a video game! 

Join us to find out what she means by this, and also hear her talk about so many other interesting parts of her job, including how her work affects her reading, what it's like managing a book club, how her store and other indies are dealing with AI, and the things she wishes everyone knew about indie bookstores.

(Side note: can someone actually develop a video game where we can play working in a bookstore?!)

-----------------------
Books we're reading in this episode:   

• Land of Milk and Honey by C. Pam Zhang
• The Astrology House by Carinn Jade
• A Lady's Guide to Scandal by Sophie Irwin
• Jane Eyre by Charlotte Bronte
• The Giver of Stars by Jojo Moyes
• We All Live Here by Jojo Moyes 
• Onyx Storm by Rebecca Yarros

----------------------- 

Rebecca's book recommendations about indie bookstores:

• How to Resist Amazon and Why by Danny Caine
• How to Protect Bookstores and Why: The Present and Future of Bookselling  by Danny Caine 

-----------------------
Intro and outro music: "The Chase," by Aves.

Do you have thoughts, questions, or ideas for future episodes? Email us at allbooksaloudpod@gmail.com. And if you want to learn more about the podcast, visit our website at allbooksaloudpod.com.

If you liked this episode, please consider leaving us a review to help us reach more listeners.

And if you'd like to see more bookish content from Martha & Elizabeth, follow us on Instagram and TikTok @allbooksaloudpod.

Read on!

Transcript

[All Books Aloud intro and theme music]

Martha: Hey Liz.

Elizabeth: Hi, Martha. How are you?

Martha: I'm doing great. How are you?

Elizabeth: I'm excited.

Martha: I know I'm really excited today too, because we are interviewing my friend Rebecca, who I've mentioned a few times on the podcast before. Rebecca is the events manager and bookseller at Fireside Books, which is an independent bookstore. And when she isn't talking about books, she's usually [00:01:00] reading or daydreaming about them.

Welcome Rebecca.

Rebecca: Hello, I'm excited to be here.

Elizabeth: I love that bio. My kind of person , there's just basically not a time when I'm not thinking about books.

Martha: Yes, it's perfect. And we usually start our podcast episodes, Rebecca, by talking about what we're reading. Do you want to go first?

Rebecca: Yeah, yeah, absolutely. I just finished a really wonderful book called, The Land of Milk and Honey, by C. Pam Xiong, and I may have butchered her name a little bit, but it's Z H A N G. , , it's a dystopian, which I've been in the mood for lately. , and it really deals with the concept of hunger in all of its forms, and it takes place in, , a world in a not so far away future where smog has covered the Earth.

And things aren't really able to grow. So everybody's eating this sort of low light mung bean protein. and the character is really, so she [00:02:00] says, what will you do for a wilted head of lettuce? , and it really talks about craving and hunger and class and all of these wonderfully juicy topics in a very, , beautifully written and It's just a narrative that has a lot of depth to it.

Elizabeth: that sounds awesome.

Rebecca: And what I love about it is it's surprisingly hopeful, even though it sounds kind of dire.

Elizabeth: it definitely sounds a little grim, but I love that there is a hopeful element to it.

, grim because it's also really realistic. I could see that being our world in the not so near future.

Martha: Mm hmm. That's why I don't usually gravitate towards those dystopian stories, but if it has a hopeful tone, then it sounds great. what are you reading, Liz? 

Elizabeth: A new paper book called The Astrology House by Karen Jade.

I'm about a third of the way in, so I'm not a hundred percent on everything with the plot, but basically the premise is that a group of. Friends they go to vacation at this sort of B& B on Long [00:03:00] Island,

if you know the New York area, Long Island is the place where People in that area who have money go to weekend, basically. , and there's a B& B the thing that makes it unique is that it has all this astrology stuff. , it'll give you an astrology reading and it'll give couples compatibility readings.

And it's owned and the astrology is done by this young woman who's in her mid twenties named Rini. , and it is a thriller, sort of like a psychological, there's stuff going on beneath the surface of all of these relationships with all these different characters that you meet who are there for the weekend, , and you're told in the beginning that it ultimately ends with someone being murdered, but It's like, who's it gonna be?

. And there are several points of view that you get inside the head, not of all the characters, but of several of them.

. It's sort of a twisty, definitely plot driven, story doorway, , book [00:04:00] that after the previous book that I read, All Fours, is definitely a change of pace, but I kind of like to do that.

I like to change up the style of book that I read so that I don't get too bogged down in one genre or another. , , also the author of this book, which I think might be the reason that I found it in the first place. The author of this book, Karen Jade, co hosts a podcast with her friend named Kate called Pop Fiction Women, where they talk about female characters in all different types of media. So it's books, but it's also movies and TV shows and, , various different things. And, Yeah, I don't know.

It's great. They talk a lot about unlikable female characters and , it has a gender politics angle to it, but it's also really funny. And I think this might be the place that I heard about her book is on the podcast. But yeah, so I'm enjoying that. And then I'm still reading the same audio book as last time,

but I have decided, Martha, that you really need to read this book. 

Martha: [00:05:00] Remind me what it is.

Elizabeth: It's called A Lady's Guide to Scandal by Sophie Irwin. And the first one, A Lady's Guide to Fortune Hunting, I really liked as well, but this one I absolutely love. , I'm dying over how much I love it. If you liked the Evie Dunmore books, you will love this.

I don't know if you ever read those, Rebecca, the Evie Dunmore, , historical romances.

Rebecca: Yeah, actually, I've read, , the first one, Bringing Down the Duke, in Fireside Book Club. It was one of Martha's recommendations.

Martha: Yeah, We read it for our romance pick last year. I'm definitely gonna put this on my TBR, Liz. If it's anything like Dunmore's Bringing Down the Duke series, or League of Extraordinary Women,

Elizabeth: Mm hmm. 

Martha: it's definitely right up my alley.

Elizabeth: Yeah. It doesn't have as explicit of a connection to, , the feminist politics of the time. They're not suffragists or anything like that in this book, but those politics are still there under the surface, for sure, in the characters. , yeah, I've , really been enjoying it. And then, the [00:06:00] only other book that I'm reading is My husband, Alex, reads books aloud to me sometimes, Rebecca, I don't know people who listen to this podcast have heard me talk about it before.

, but we just started reading Jane Eyre, because it was my turn to choose the book, and he's never read Jane Eyre before, and , last time my pick was Pride and Prejudice, so I'm basically, rectifying all of the, wrongs in the sense of , classics by women that he hasn't read yet.

 We just started that and, , I'm just reminded of how much I love that book. , I don't think I've read it since the first time I read it. , so probably high school. And it's just so great. It's such a 

Martha: Yeah. Jane Eyre is my favorite of all the Brontë sisters books. I love 

Elizabeth: Yeah. 

Martha: So, you gotta keep us posted on what Al thinks.

Elizabeth: He loves it so far. It's always so funny because he's like, I'm actually liking this because, you know, it's like he hasn't read it because he didn't think that he would like it. It's like these books that he's been avoiding , for whatever reason.

I don't know. I don't want to speculate, but he's, yeah, he's loving it so far.

Martha: Well good, he passed the test.[00:07:00] 

Elizabeth: What about you, Martha? What are you reading?

Martha: I am listening to The Giver of Stars by Jojo Moyes. I love Jojo Moyes. I love Me Before You and that whole series and I've listened to In Someone Else's Shoes and I just listened to her newest one called We All Live Here . So it got me back on a Jojo Moyes kick. This one seems like a little bit of a departure for her.

It's less women's fiction and more historical fiction. It's set in Depression era Kentucky, and it's a group of women who Become mobile librarians. 

 The project is sort of a brainchild of Eleanor Roosevelt's. And they have women go into these rural areas on horseback and bring library books. So they're delivering and picking up every week. [00:08:00] And it's really interesting because obviously it talks about the politics of mining in Appalachia in that time and, , the patriarchy and how women are treated and how kids weren't going to school and, , when they first start visiting these families, they get threatened, you know, get off my land, I'll shoot you kind of thing.

And then in the end, or at least at the part I'm at, They're befriending the families and really sharing the gift that is reading and how much it can benefit the families and , so far it's really great, but yeah, just a little bit of a different story from what I'm used to from Jojo Moyes, but it's great and a great narrator, so I'm enjoying that.

Elizabeth: Nice.

Martha: And I'm still trying to finish Onyx Storm, which is a little bit surprising to me. I did pause for a while because I had other book club books going on, but I am I'm almost done with the book, and I'm realizing that [00:09:00] this might be a hot take, but nothing has really happened? , I feel like this whole book could have been completely cut.

Elizabeth: Hmm.

Martha: , the first two books of the series were really exciting. They were page turners. And then this one, I'm like, okay, is she just, , trying to fill her series quota of whatever her book deal was? Because nothing's really happened. And I hear that the end is, , really interesting, but I have, , a tiny bit left.

And I'm sure she'll do some twist at the end, because that's kind of what she's known for. , honestly, it's been a little bit of a slog, but I want to finish the series, so I'm sticking it out.

Elizabeth: already been announced how many books are gonna be in , the full series?

Martha: I'm looking on Goodreads right now and it looks like if you click on the Empyrean series, there is a book four, and then under book four, which is untitled, it says Rebecca Yaros has confirmed and stated on several platforms , that this will now be a five book [00:10:00] series.

Elizabeth: Hmm.

I mean, I'm sure there are probably some people who like it, and she sold millions of books, so obviously she's doing something right. But, I will say that , it's not that surprising to me to hear that because, With an author who blows up like this and who then gets a multiple book deal, it's like she will have been working on that first book for who, God knows how long. 

I feel like you work on the first book more than any other book because you basically have to get an agent to take a chance on you and then you're getting an editor to take a chance on you and then you get the publishing house to take a chance on you.

Elizabeth: But then once that book sells, and is so popular the way that this first one was. even then the second book, like probably she was working on the second book when the first book was out on submission. So the second book, she probably also took a fair bit of time to write. But once that first book was so popular, then there becomes the pressure of [00:11:00] People want the next one, and so she can't spend the amount of time on the next one that she spent on even the second one.

 Rebecca can tell us all about this probably, but it takes at least a year or two to actually publish a book, even when the publisher is motivated to get it out into the world like this one. So, the amount of time that she had to write it was probably small, and I'm sure it didn't go through as many rounds of edits.

The pressure for it to be fast versus the pressure for it to be good has flipped that happens a lot with these books that get super popular in their parts of series. You see the way that the different pressures that we're working on the author change, and I think that the book quality is, you can see it.

Martha: Yeah, it happened to Sarah J Maas too in the Crescent City series. I feel like it was so built up and there was a lot of criticism for those books, especially the last one in the series. And now she's supposedly writing a ACOTAR 6, would it [00:12:00] be the 6th book, I think, to finish up that series, and , I feel like it's kind of a George R.

R. Martin situation where so much pressure builds and goes into it, and you feel like some of the fans aren't gonna like it regardless of what you do, that I'm sure there's some paralysis there.

Rebecca: There's so much pressure for the books to be just as good as the rest of them, but also for the books to come out that there's like no winning.

Elizabeth: , yeah, I actually, I mean whatever, I don't feel sorry for these authors that are sitting on their piles of money. But there is an element where you have to feel sorry for the author because they're getting pressure from all sides. And. , like I said, the first book sometimes they would spend a decade working on and they actually just are not allowed to spend that long on a book.

It kind of sucks the way that the industry sort of forces.

This situation where there's all this pressure and then, readers aren't happy and the authors probably, it doesn't feel like they're doing their best work either.

Martha: Yeah, [00:13:00] so we'll see. I'm going to stick it out. I'm going to finish the series because I want to know what happens and hopefully she'll, , finish it and it won't turn into a George R. R. Martin situation.

Elizabeth: Yes. We'll

Martha: . So Rebecca, we want to get into. We're going to start our interview now with you and talking about all things book selling how did you get into this line of work?

Rebecca: Yeah, I joined fireside in 2022, , and it was after the bulk of the pandemic had passed. , and it was like a, a little stroke of lightning and luck that Fireside announced they were hiring on my birthday.

And, , it was a great chance for me to get back into the work world and out of the home. , and books have long been a passion of mine, so it just seems sort of perfect.

Elizabeth: I love that. I don't know why I would have thought this, but I thought that you've always worked there or something , it seems like such a perfect fit.

Rebecca: Yeah, the wonderful thing about Fireside is how cozy and homey it is and all of us, even if we hadn't worked there for so long, we've all [00:14:00] been customers or part of this community for so long that it just, it's just a natural fit.

Martha: Definitely.

Elizabeth: it's such a great place. What would you say that a sort of standard day in your work life is like? 

Rebecca: We get hit with a lot of different information requests. So you'd be surprised how many people come into the bookstore and just want to know about the local area, which is kind of cool. So I know a lot about Palmer because of that. , but a typical day, yeah, it's a lot more cleaning than you would think.

A lot more dusting and shelving and maintaining the store into a cozy, comfortable atmosphere. , it's a lot of fielding calls and, , the goal is always to make sure that people can get to the books that they're looking for. So anything that falls within that, which includes shelving, just making sure things are in the right place.

 I always , talk about it like it's a video game, . You're at the counter and you're waiting and then the next person pops up and now you have the next task to, to complete in front of you. And everybody has something different that they need help with. , and so it's often [00:15:00] fielding customer questions and different requests from the community.

And then my day looks a little different too, because I'm the events manager. So it's a lot of inquiries about, , authors coming in asking for their books to be in the store, or asking for signings, or local non profit, , figuring out ways that we can cooperate with each other. , and I really love that community aspect of it most.

yeah

Martha: It's so interesting how anywhere that there are books, like a library or a bookstore, it seems to turn into this community hub and people just assume they can go there for answers. I love that.

Rebecca: . Me too.

Elizabeth: Yeah, I was going to say , that your answer strikes me how similar a lot of that is to being a librarian. People ask us the most random questions , and I want to encourage that, please keep going into your libraries and asking random questions.

That's what they're there for. But it is funny how few of the questions that you get when you're at a library reference desk are actually about books [00:16:00] or the library. It's like. All sorts of other questions.

Martha: Someone in our book club, last time we met, mentioned that their sister, back in the day, , at some point, her job at the library was to answer the phone. And people would call with questions, and they would have to , look them up in an encyclopedia or something.

, this was before the internet, and that was her whole job. It's

so cute.

Elizabeth: yeah, someone that did that.

Martha: That sounds like such a fun job. . I also love your description of it being like a video game, and that is a video game that I would like to play.

Rebecca: Me too. I'm still waiting for them to make it.

Martha: Cute. Well, what would you say your favorite part of your job is?

Rebecca: Oh, that's so hard to answer. Can I pick two favorite things?

Martha: Absolutely.

Rebecca: would say my absolute favorite is the sense of community and getting to meet all of the people, um, see all the families that come through and [00:17:00] make connections with people, even if it's just saying, oh, that's my favorite book too. , and then my second favorite part is being able to share the books that I really love with other people who might love them just as much or maybe even more.

I really love to give shout outs to authors who aren't as well known or little niche books that maybe other people haven't quite heard about yet. , that's definitely got to be a huge perk of the job. easy

Elizabeth: love that.

Rebecca: recommend. 

Martha: good at it. You've given me so many good recommendations. Specifically for Cozy Fantasy. Mmhmm.

Elizabeth: I also think that that's what's so great about an independent bookstore , you get that level of community, the person who works there lives in the town and you know people and you can chat with someone for 10 minutes, you know what I mean?

 It just, has a totally different vibe. and speaking of, indie booksellers, what's the biggest struggle for indie bookstores or indie booksellers right now? 

Rebecca: Booksellers are [00:18:00] probably struggling with the general feeling about books, , and places where books seem to congregate, so I think our teachers and our librarians probably know exactly what I'm talking about when I say that, books are a hot topic surprisingly right now, who thought that libraries would be, or bookstores would be a hot topic.

, but luckily, , , , in our actual physical space, we get very little pushback. Most people who come into the bookstore are so happy to be there. They want to find books. . It's not like working in any other retail space, it's generally a very cheerful and cozy place to be, and I'm very thankful for that.

Martha: Mm hmm.

Elizabeth: You mean with books getting banned and people protesting certain books and stuff like that? Hmm,

Rebecca: or certain topics, just even having them available in the store , can bring us a lot of flack or maybe negative reviews. we're good at being a safe, cozy for people.

Elizabeth: that's good. I'm glad to hear that. Yeah, , the last couple of years have been pretty rough on libraries, especially public libraries and school libraries. Thankfully my type of library, I [00:19:00] don't get a lot of that either. but yeah, it's definitely It's been quite a challenge

for a lot of librarians.

Rebecca: And the bookstores, I don't think bookstores are dealing with it as heavy as librarians, and so we're able to pivot and see how we can be an ally for our local libraries, , and our teachers too. , so I'm thankful for that part as well. I

Martha: Yeah. Definitely.

Well, I'm curious how working at the bookstore impacts your reading. , do you feel a pressure to constantly read new releases and things like that, or do you still get to read what you're interested in?

Rebecca: I think that's such a great question because I think every bookseller probably approaches it differently. , for me, as soon as I feel like I have to read, it kills my joy and my motivation to read. So, , I try to take a leaf out of my co worker's book and look at it as a privilege, like a kid in a candy shop.

, I definitely do try to read more new releases, just so I can be aware of what's [00:20:00] coming out and know what people might want to read and have good recommendations ready. But I love to go down rabbit holes. I love to find a new author, and to me, author, and then read everything that they've written, or a new genre, and really explore it.

So I really try to indulge in that side of myself, too. And as long as it's new to me, then I try to, , just appreciate that. I don't do nearly as much rereading as I used to. It feels very indulgent now to reread a book.

Elizabeth: Okay, that's interesting. That makes me think of, I want your take on one of our All Books Allowed controversial topics. Do you DNF books that you're not enjoying? would you stop reading a book?

Rebecca: absolutely I do, which is very funny because I run our book club and sometimes I have, , DNF'd book club books. , I will definitely still research them and make sure that I know how to lead the conversation, but , it's just impossible for me to make myself finish something I'm not interested in , or enjoying.

Elizabeth: [00:21:00] Yeah. 

I'm glad that you don't do that. I thought that when you said that when reading becomes a job, then you don't like it.

Rebecca: Yeah, I think it's similar with , any work when you're working with something you're passionate about, you have to have some very interesting boundaries.

Martha: hmm. And that's one thing that's great about our book club too, Rebecca, and you're so good at, fostering this culture that we have going on there. I've DNF'd book club books, but then still gone to book club and talked about it and felt welcome and , there's no judgment on like, oh if you didn't finish the book what are you even doing here?

You have nothing to contribute or you know, it's never like that. It's always so great still to talk about why maybe someone didn't like it and everyone's so open and responsive and , it's great.

Rebecca: Yeah, well, we have a very particular book club and then it's genre exploratory. So we try to read something different every month and really get people out of their, , comfort zones. Which is also very funny because I have a huge comfort zone that I like to stay in. , [00:22:00] but , it's fun to be exploratory about it.

And as soon as you start shaming people for not reading it or not liking something that someone else likes, then I think it does kill a little bit of the joy.

Elizabeth: Yeah, absolutely. What is your comfort zone? What is your genre of choice, or genres?

Rebecca: Well, Martha could probably quote me on this 'cause I feel like I say it at every book club nearly, but if it doesn't have like a ghost or an orc or a zombie or something fantastical , or very interesting happening, happening, then it's hard for me to engage with it sometimes. So I, I like books that are in the fantasy and horror genre and a little bit in the sci-fi.

, and then anything, if it has fairytales. Or if it's about witches, it can be any genre and I'll read it. 

Elizabeth: Nice, I love that. So it's not really about the genre, it's more about , the components of the book, 

Rebecca: think so. , your podcast has introduced me to story doorways.

And I do like thinking about those with genre too. I think it's really useful together to narrow down what you like about books and think about it in different terms.

Martha: Mm

Elizabeth: Yeah, that's exactly what it [00:23:00] made me think of. Nancy, I hope you're listening. Another convert.

Martha: So what do you think your preferred doorway is then, Rebecca?

Rebecca: You know, that's so funny because it changes depending on who's writing and what book it's in. I think I lean towards character and language. I think those two are the biggest, , doorways for me. But I love a well written setting. I think of Eowyn Ivey's The Snow Child and Blackwood's Blue Sky and just how Alaska rises off of the pages.

, and even a good story, if it's got a great plot and it's just a page turner, you can't beat that either. So, all of 

Martha: Yes. All of the books. 

Elizabeth: Well, they all have their appeal.

Martha: Mm hmm.

Elizabeth: What about format? What format do you prefer reading? 

Rebecca: When you say format, you mean print versus audio versus digital. , I tend towards physical books and I really love a hardcover. It was actually one of the things that surprised me working about fireside books is that the vast majority of people prefer paperback, which makes sense because it's easier to [00:24:00] carry and a little bit more economical.

But I love a good hardcover. , I also listen to a lot of audiobooks, too. I think you two are often both listening to a book and reading a book at the same time. And I do that as well, just because I like to have a book going when I can't physically read. If I'm doing dishes or chores, it's nice to have something to listen to.

Martha: Yeah, definitely.

Elizabeth: , Martha converted me to that. I always used to think that it would be too hard for me to hold, , more than one story in my head. , I was very, , hesitant about audiobooks, but now I need multiple things going at the same time.

Martha: Yes, as many books as possible. It's funny too because I don't think until recently I've been able to pause a book midway and start and finish another book and go back. , I would have never done that before until we started doing the podcast and talking about how there's no rules, you can do whatever you want.

And now I can pause a book and read another book and pick up where I left off and yeah, [00:25:00] no one was harmed in the, the pause of this book. It's so funny.

Elizabeth: Oh my god, I love that. You freed yourself from all the shoulds around reading.

Martha: it's the only way I could read all the books for book clubs. I would never be able to read a book that I just wanted to read, speaking of book clubs , I want to go back to book clubs a little bit , The joys of running a book club or what's hard about it just in general what it's like to be the person who's running it

Rebecca: well, , it can be a lot of fun. And I will say my very favorite thing about book club is having the book club. It's having the meeting and having everybody there and hearing what everybody thought about it and just connecting over what makes us love reading , or what we didn't like about the book is just as fun sometimes, even if it is my favorite book and you didn't like it, it's okay.

Martha: Sorry 

Rebecca: It can be really hard when you pick a book that's your favorite and book club doesn't respond favorably. , but what I find difficult about it, I guess, is when I first started our book [00:26:00] club at Fireside, , we didn't have an identity. We were just, let's have, we're a bookstore, let's have a book club.

We had one before the pandemic. Let's have one again. , and I think the struggle was finding an identity because we just started, . Picking books that people liked, , , we literally just started picking a book off the bestseller list and then going from there. , so that was a little bit of a struggle, but I think as time has gone on and we've refined and found who we are with our members , and really found our purpose, it's become much easier and much more of a.

, a labor of love.

Martha: Yeah, and I can say as a member it's really fun to have to think about a genre that maybe you've never even heard about and what kind of book within that genre , you wanna put forward as your recommendation? It's really fun. So you did a great job.

Rebecca: Well, I'm leaning on my teacher training there. My bachelor's degree is actually in teaching. And so I'm a huge nerd for vocabulary and [00:27:00] knowing the different words associated. So one of my favorite things I figured out was what is an epistolary novel? . And that's just a novel that's written through other documents like letters or diary entries, but I really love those things and so I, I share them with you guys.

Martha: Mm-hmm

Elizabeth: I love that. , would you say that your book club membership is, , fairly stable or do you have new people coming in all the time?

Rebecca: Yeah, we have a bit of both, actually. So we have a core group of five or six people and it's usually those same people every time and then most meetings, I would say we usually have maybe one new member or a couple new members, and it really fluctuates with what book we're reading. , We have , the usual group of people that comes for every book, and then we have people who might be interested in this genre, or interested in talking about this book.

And then we have people that, that came a couple of times in the beginning, and we haven't seen them since, and then they popped back up, because they were busy, and now they're free. So, it's been A little bit of both.

Elizabeth: I like the [00:28:00] sound of that because, , it's nice to have some new blood, right, to make the conversation slightly different, but when I was working in the public library in , helped the librarians manage the book clubs, , with those, there would always be a new group of people every time I did it, and I feel like such a big part of a group like that is the cohesion of the group, and the vibe of the group, as the kids would say, I don't know, and If you're all new to each other, it takes a while to get that figured out and so to only have one time and then for everyone to be new the next time it was like, ah, I don't know how to get in a groove with this.

So it sounds like you have the best of both worlds.

Rebecca: I'm very thankful. , and a big shout out to John. I don't know if he listens or not, but he's been to every book club that I've hosted since the beginning and he's my one member who's hung on with me. So big shout out to John for that.

Elizabeth: That's great. So Rebecca, we have a few questions that are sort of what's it like as an [00:29:00] insider in the industry? So something that Martha and I have talked about a lot of times on the podcast is the bookstagram, BookTok phenomenon.

, so we would love to hear , what your take is on those things. Do you engage with Social media , or is it something that you feel like is happening parallel to you?

Rebecca: Yeah, that's another great question. , in my personal life, I don't really engage too much in BookTalk or Bookstagram just because I'm not much of a social media person. There's a couple places online, a few different forums that I'll trade book suggestions and recommendations on, but for the most part, , I like to do my book socializing in person, and I'm very lucky that that's literally my job, so, so I don't have to go far to do that.

, as the person who runs Fireside Social Media, , I definitely try to stay engaged and aware, relatively. I'll scroll through a few different things, and I follow the big publishers and a few authors that are near and dear to my own heart, but that's probably , the extent of how [00:30:00] I engage with it. , I do try to stay aware of, , trends and what's happening, just because those are good things to be aware of in general.

But,

but yeah, I try to distance myself a little bit. I'm not that keyed in on social media.

Elizabeth: The bookstore did a midnight release for Onyx Storm. So, was there a social media element to that? Or did they just approach you and say, we want to do this event?

What was that like?

Rebecca: Well, , Onyx Storm was an interesting one. , and just a minor correction, we actually didn't do a Midnight release. What we did for Onyx Storm was, because it released at midnight on the East Coast, because we're so far behind, we were able to sell the book, because there's very strict rules about when you sell a new released book.

, some of them have a thing called street smart, and that means that you cannot sell a book before a certain time on a certain date. , and indie bookstores are held to that much more closely than maybe other places you might find the books.

, so with Onyx Storm, we were very careful and made sure to make sure that we, it was okay for us to sell it, but what we did was [00:31:00] we stayed open a little bit later and we sold the book at 8 p.

m. because that was midnight on the East Coast.

Elizabeth: okay. Okay.

Rebecca: and, , we would have loved to do a big party for it, but being in Alaska and having some, pretty unique to Alaska, some shipping issues, we're always a little wary about books like that and being able to have the books on time and in a sellable condition.

Because if they come in damaged, that's a huge heart attack for us. And that actually is what happened with Fourth Wing, , a lot of the books came in damaged. So with Onyx Storm, we were like, what? Let's not commit to anything too big, but let's try to do something a little fun. , I get a little green eyed when I see bookstores who have the ability to throw these lavish masquerades and really fun midnight release parties.

But I think the last one that we did at Fireside was for the last Harry Potter book.

Martha: Wow. Well, you know,

, even just staying open a little late for Onyx Storm was so fun. And I went and picked up my book and it was after hours and there were so many [00:32:00] people coming in and they just had the biggest smiles on their faces and they were so excited. So even though it wasn't like a big party, it definitely still felt special.

And like you could feel the excitement and it seemed like the community really responded to that.

Rebecca: Well, it was cool. People had their , Baz, Baz, I'm probably pronouncing it wrong, Baz Geass, , , college sweaters and, , all of their other, fourth wing merchandise on them. It was, it was very cool to see so many people bond and love the same thing.

Elizabeth: Yeah, 

I love that. It's so funny. I had a moment obviously where I forgot it was Alaska because I just saw the picture that Martha had of her with the book and it was pitch black and so I was just like, oh it's midnight. They did it at midnight but of course it was the midnight of 8 p.

m. in Alaska in the winter.

Martha: Exactly, it just felt like midnight.

Elizabeth: Yeah, that's so funny.

Martha: Well recently, Rebecca, you guys finally, I say finally, caved [00:33:00] and added a Romanticy section. Do you feel like that demand for this subgenre was a result of social media, or was that some other phenomenon? 

Rebecca: Because of how booktalk and bookstagram have made huge shifts in the industry. , it's hard to say if it's because of social media or just because of that's where people expect to find certain books. So I would say , our decision to add romantic had more to do with making sure people could find the books that they were looking for.

Because with romantic in particular, we had the problem of, well, does this go in fantasy or does it go in romance? , and it not fitting in either. And really asking ourselves, okay, if I'm a person looking for this book, where would I look? And romantic? See, adding that section was just a way for us to.

Signal to people that if you like this book, this is where more books like that live.

Martha: And what's it been like since you added it? Have you been having to do a lot of restocking in that section? Mm

Rebecca: Yeah, we're still building it [00:34:00] up a little bit. I think that everybody on staff has read A Romanticity, but none of us are heavy into the genre. So it's been fun figuring out which books go there versus elsewhere. , but it's been really great because it's worked out exactly as we'd hoped.

It's exactly where people are going to look for, if you like Sarah J. Moss, if you like Fourth Wing. Here's where you will find the other books like that. Because if you put those books in fantasy, then if someone goes to the fantasy section, there might not be enough romance. They might not find what they're looking for.

And if you put it in romance, there might be way too much fantasy in it for somebody who's just looking for a romance book.

So it's been , an interesting evolution of genre.

Martha: Mm hmm.

Elizabeth: yeah. I think that's really important though because There are people, I mean, me among them in the beginning, although now I'm a convert on the romanticy thing, partially because of Martha, but there are people who are like, why do we have to label genres so much?

, why can't we be more fluid? And I have some patience for that argument, but I think that your argument of like, this is where people [00:35:00] are going to be looking for this book, , it's reader focused. It's a really important point , to remember in that whole argument that, , there's a reason that genres exist in bookstores.

It's so that people know where to look for the books that they want to read, right? It's really practical and important.

Martha: Mm hmm.

Rebecca: It's the best way of because we can't. Help every customer personally shop that we would love to go around and pick out books for everybody, but we can't. So our way of doing that is making sure that books are easy to find. , and that if you're looking in this genre, then you're going to find books that you likely like in this genre.

And so I was thinking of someone who likes fourth wing, maybe picking up, Thrones, , though they talk in very similar tropes, the books themselves are very different in theme and tone. And I just think that's the best way to get books to people.

Martha: Yeah, makes sense.

Elizabeth: it does. It really does. , along the lines of all of the new readers that Romantici has brought in, ,, it's been in the news that more people are buying books. , during the [00:36:00] pandemic, there was a lot of news about book sales going up, and then recently there was news that, Barnes Noble is, , opening more stores for the first time this year , since they started closing stores.

And So I'm just wondering from an indie booksellers perspective, does it seem like more people are reading, more people are buying books from your perspective? Is that a phenomenon you've noticed?

Rebecca: Yeah, that's another good question. I always roll my eyes a little bit when people are like, Oh, no one's reading anymore. Or like, why aren't the kids reading? Or, oh, people are just watching movies or playing video games and not reading now.

I think people have always read and will always read. , and so it's hard to say if more or less people are reading right now. What I'll say is that more people are definitely Indulging in reading is a hobby in all different ways, and I think that means collecting books as well as reading them.

There are so many beautiful editions of books that are being put out right now that it feels, as someone who loves, , buying and reading [00:37:00] books as much as I like talking about them, it's really hard to say, oh, I've already got this book, I can't have this other beautiful edition of it. And so I think you see people really engaging in, in book collecting.

, whether or not that affects their reading, , I'm not sure, 

Martha: hmm. Yeah, book trophies! We've talked about that too, not even just different editions, but I'm guilty of this. Sometimes I'll listen to an audiobook and I'll love it so much that I'm like, I just, I need to have this book on my shelf. 

Rebecca: absolutely. 

Elizabeth: No guilt involved in that, Martha.

That's interesting. I didn't even think about that. And, I roll my eyes along with you about the no one is reading. , but that's really interesting to think about the collecting part of it being possibly part of what's driving the. Increased sales numbers as opposed to it being about whether people read more or less.

Martha: hmm.

Rebecca: Well, I know, I know I'm guilty of the exactly the same thing, Martha. I'll listen to a book, , and then , I'll just want to cover it on my shelf so I [00:38:00] can look at it and see how pretty it is and know , oh, yeah, there's that book that I love so much because I'm very guilty of forgetting about books that I listened to, , just because I don't have, I'm not looking at them the same 

Martha: Yeah, definitely. Makes perfect sense to me.

Elizabeth: I don't think either of you should feel guilty about it.

Rebecca: I'm definitely not embarrassed of my six different editions of The Secret Garden.

Elizabeth: Oh, I love The Secret Garden.

Martha: That's adorable.

Elizabeth: It's a great book to have a trophy of.

So speaking of something that a lot of people have been talking about regarding, , all industries, but the book industry as well, is, AI. So, there's been a lot of talk about AI disrupting the book industry. Almost everyone that Martha and I have talked to on the podcast has brought up a way that AI is affecting their corner of the industry.

, It's affecting audiobook narrators. It's affecting librarians. So, we are wondering if AI, is affecting indie booksellers. , do you see an impact of that in your [00:39:00] work?

Rebecca: It certainly does. I think that there is no one in the book industry that is unimpacted by AI at this point. , specifically at my store and talking about the people that I have talked to face to face. , I haven't had any authors come in with, , AI in their books. Yet we are expecting to see more of it.

, but there are several artists on our staff. , and AI is huge in the art world as well as the book world. , and we just have a general policy of if there is AI in the book, we will not carry it. That's all. , and I think that actually gives , physical indie bookstores a little bit of an edge over online retailers.

Because we are humans and we are carefully curating our, , collections. And so, by saying we're not going to have any books with AI in our store, you can feel comfortable and safe to come into the store and know that those are books written by human people, the art is human art, and [00:40:00] someone put a lot of work and soul into it. , and , When it comes to non fiction books in particular, it's even more important, though I hate saying it because I'm a fiction lover, but with non fiction books, when people are turning to them for information, it's so important to know that your book is written by an expert in the field, someone who knows what they're talking about.

, there have already been several reports of books on online retailers, specifically mushroom identification guides , that were created by AI. And I can't speak to if those have had a concrete consequence in the real world yet or not, but you could easily see how that could go wrong.

, and many of those books were found to have poisonous mushrooms that aren't poisonous or vice versa. So you definitely see an impact and I will say the one physical book we've had in the store that was AI written, it came in as a donation for used books. We looked at it, counted all the horses legs because there weren't enough, laughed, and then we passed it on.

Our phrase is [00:41:00] if it isn't worth the effort for you to write it, why is it worth my effort to read it?

Elizabeth: Oh, my God, yes.

Amen to that. 

Rebecca: Yeah, that's such a great way to put it. 

, if someone comes in and they're an author hopeful, they want to write their own books, or , they want to get into the world of publishing, but they don't have the skills, it's hard to tell them , well, AI is not going to cut it, because it's a real person you're talking to who has ideas and creativity too, but , it's really important to us to make sure that we are elevating books written by people.

Martha: hmm, yeah. And like you said, something that really has a soul to it, I think that really hit the nail on the head of how it's different

Rebecca: Well, because, okay, so they say that there's , nothing new under the sun, right? , there's no new stories, there's no new books being written. However, I don't think that's true because I think every story is filtered through the lens and the experience of the person who's writing it, as well as the lens of the person who's reading it.

But by not having a person to put [00:42:00] the story through, you're losing that perspective, , the synthesizing that happens in a person's brain as they're writing it, as they're bringing their lived experience and their thoughts and their perspective into the story, you really lose

Martha: mm hmm,

Elizabeth: Yeah, and then it just becomes a collection of ideas and story elements that have already been done a million times. So then it's like there is nothing new in this because it doesn't have the one thing that makes a book that might, be a story that's been told before, unique.

Martha: , well, it'll be interesting to see how it all unfolds, but I'm glad that Fireside has a policy.

Elizabeth: Yeah, I am too. I'm really glad to hear that and , . I hope that is something that a lot of indie bookstores are planting their flag in the sand on that will hopefully give those bookstores a leg up because they are

better.

Martha: that's a great segue into our next question, which is just what do you wish everyone knew about bookstores or shopping at a bookstore, Rebecca?

Rebecca: , my first thought is I want to put my pet peeve in [00:43:00] here is that if you're shopping at a bookstore, please don't tell us that you're going to get it from Amazon. We know you can get it cheaper from Amazon. We know that the industry is set up that way, the price that we have to sell books for is printed on the book.

We, unlike , any other retail industry, we are really beholden to the publishers. , and it's a point of pride. We want books to be affordable for people. We don't want to upcharge things. We want people to be able to access stories that bring them information or hope or warmth. , but please don't tell us you're getting it on Amazon.

Just don't even mention it when you come into an indie bookstore. Having said that, I would like to plug a book recommendation. , Danny Kane is an author that has a couple of really wonderful books. , and two that come to mind are How to Resist Amazon and Why. And how to protect bookstores and why they both have some really thoughtful information on how that whole industry works

and then the other thing is just, we have a little sign in our store that says a town without a bookstore is a town without a heart. [00:44:00] And I actually believe that applies to libraries. Even more than bookstores, but that bookstores serve their own, , little special place in the community. And if you're looking for people, if you're looking for connection, turn to books.

find it.

Martha: Yeah, definitely.

Elizabeth: A hundred percent. 

Martha: And that's why we do this podcast. we'll put those, book recommendations in the show notes, too, if anyone wants to read those. I'll definitely put that on my never ending TBR as well.

Rebecca: And you know, they come out with new books every Tuesday.

Martha: , that was great. . 

Elizabeth: Thank you so much, Rebecca. . We really appreciate you talking to us.

Rebecca: Yeah, yeah, thank you for having me on the podcast.

 I just want everyone to keep in mind that I'm just an individual working in a bookstore. I've only been in the book industry for about three years now, and these are just from my perspective and my experiences.

Martha: Oh, that was such a great conversation with Rebecca. Thank you again so much for joining us. We had such a good time. If you guys are looking for even more bookish [00:45:00] content, make sure you follow us on Instagram and TikTok at allbooksalouddpod. If you'd like to get in touch You can send us an email to all books aloud pod at gmail. com make sure you subscribe so you never miss an episode and read on my friends 

[All Books Aloud theme music]