Sohbet August 8, 2024: Masks and Surrender

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Transcript

Rough transcript of the discussion:

It's pretty nigh possible to be in that state 24, 7.

As you say, it's a practice and I'm hearing you saying, you know, to have that awareness being you for a lot or not being you for me because, you know, this one gets caught up

so much in the me and trying to get rid of that, but I suppose we're just trying to get

better and better at the practice, maybe that's what I'm trying to ask Shaykh, that's what

the aim is.

The aim is to be in a balanced state where you know that you are working for a law and

that with that you can keep a fairly clear balance and know what the adopt of the moment

is.

But when that slip slides away and you're back to general ‘me’ness, then it's helpful to go back to the default adopt of what would be right in this situation if you're not sure.

Yep. I see that as one of the purposes of Adab is, well, you do the right thing at the right

time, it'll maybe help get you back into that balance, but I know we all have defaults

and we all kind of fall into old patterns.

Exactly.

The trick is which old pattern would you like to change and if you're going to do that? It means that's going to be a new pattern and new patterns are hard to put into here

because they want to default to the old one.

So this is part of understanding yourself and how you learn and how you grow.

And like I've talked about before, we all carry around these general intelligences. There's about five or six of them, two, I think are strong and the rest are going to be weak.

That's been my experience.

That could be wrong about this, but I kind of going on, you know, the visual, kinesthetic,

analytic and oral intelligences, and usually the two are strong and two are weak.

And then I keep discovering new ones, like I think there's geometric and emotional and

textural and I'm sure there's more.

But knowing yourself and what are your strengths helps you carry through when you have to deal

with your weaknesses and kind of, you know, when we first start out, I ask about doing an inventory, what do we got to work with?

What is this?

What do you bring into the game here?

And the game is usually, you know, a whole lot of family stuff, some traumas, some

embarrassments and some successes and trying to see, so where do you want to go with this?

What do you want to do?

Well, I want to be better.

I want to do better.

I want to learn what I need to learn and then the question of like, what do you think

you know?

And then as opposed to, what do you really know?

And in this case, I'm going back to the original Greek, GNOSIS.

That knowing, I think of as being that which cannot be taken away from you.

For example, love for your members of your family or your partner or love for some

aspect of nature or appreciation of beauty and maybe, I don't know, maybe that you love

a lot or maybe that you love being alive.

I mean, there's something that's there that you wouldn't be you without it.

It's different for everybody too.

And then the next phase is figuring out, well, what do I want to grow and what do I need

to get rid of?

And that's where they working on one of my attached to, what am I identifying with that

and if I identify it with it, is that really me or is it something made up, something

that just kind of agglomerated on to me, (is that a word)?

So learning, learning what those are, you know, like thinking you're special or thinking

that you, you're an individual and that you're independent and that you can do things

yourself without anybody's help, that's kind of like, no, that's not, that's, that's

not real, that that's made up.

Nobody's independent.

And anybody that is, I'd like to see them, if they drive a car, go and mine the oil for

the petrol and the metal, you know, get that out, build it yourself and a refrigerator

too.

Why are you at it?

If you're mining iron ore, why don't you make yourself, somebody did this, made it, made

it themselves a toaster and realized, this is hard from scratch. (https://youtu.be/5ODzO7Lz_pw?feature=shared)

Yeah.

That's great.

Yeah.

You had to go figure out where do you get, you know, the metal and then make the little

springs inside that heat up and the spring that holds it down and, I mean, the whole design

of it as well.

So taking anything for just a moment to focus in on that, can you build that?

Can you do anything like that and it's kind of like, no.

So somebody tells me they're independent, go, good, you made your own clothes.

That's fantastic.

It's hard.

We are completely interdependent and that goes all the way back to the beginning in, you

know, physics that you can't get complex atoms unless you've gotten two big stars and

smashed them together.

That's the only time it can happen.

We didn't just come out full blown.

So physics, it works.

Any questions about that, anything you want me to open up here?

There's something that you said about, you know, what one identifies with, I think for

me, a little bit of the challenge is, you know, sometimes you move into, namely sort

of some certain friends or family and when I'm in that environment or those surroundings,

I find myself merged into that identification all the while knowing I'm observing that,

you know, this is not really real, but hey, I'm trying to do the adab thing, you know,

of just, you know, making sure people are, you know, are okay or safe or comfortable

or whatever it is.

And then when I leave that, it's like, no, okay, I can drop that facade.

So I'm sort of witnessing, observing that for what it is, but there is like a shoot

that's still on my shoulder that, oh, maybe you're not being, you know, your true authentic

self and you should be more authentic.

So that's sometimes a little bit of the challenge that I have shaped within my journey.

So just to get that, we talk about balance sometimes, yeah, so what is the balance?

So is it okay to put on that facade in that environment all the while knowing that you're

holding that facade for the sake of, you know, adab, but it's not really who you are,

but you're doing it.

Or should you just be, yeah, more of that authentic self?

You know, one of the oldest artifacts that we have from cultures, human cultures, from

all time are masks.

And masks come into play in putting on becoming a character, a god, a goddess, a demon,

an angel.

Anyway, the idea of masks in traditional cultures are sacred.

And the idea of identity is, you know, something that we do personally, but in context with

others, there's, there has to, there's a time and place that you have to play a part.

Otherwise you will disturb the norm, the social norm.

And putting that mask on, there's nothing wrong with that.

And it's part of like our job, you know, in reality, you know, I kind of default back

to a movie called Cocoon, when an alien comes, and she's put on a human body, but when

she takes off her face, she's just pure light.

And that's how I think of us, we're pure light, but for a little while now we have to

wear this thing that came from monkeys, you know, chimpanzees.

And that it's going to do what it usually does.

It's going to default.

If you don't stay in control of the puppet, it will default, too, of course it will.

That's kind of it's breeding, and that's what it's been bred to do.

So part of this is trying to stay in charge of what mask are you wearing and recognizing

that it's a mask.

And that by revealing what's under it, you will upset a lot of people.

So we do the best we can given the context of especially time and place.

So there's a context, especially if you're, you know, in a family or a relationship, there's

a given take and there's, there's a negotiation always going on of like, how much do I reveal?

How much do I keep the mask on?

And in some relationships, you can remove that a little bit more than the normal.

But it's context and in Sufism, we recognize that we are light.

We are beings of light put into this situation and we, we don't have to hide it.

We were aware that it's kind of like, this is pretty funny.

This is, this can be amusing and catastrophic at the same time.

It's self because we're dealing with matter.

We're dealing with things that have pain and joy and pleasure and contentment.

The thing that I got from the Don Juan books, even though they are fiction, his idea of

a sorcerer, you know, putting on his suit to go to work and not nobody knowing that he's

a sorcerer, it's kind of like, I like that idea.

That makes perfect sense.

You don't have to show and explain to everybody who you are.

It's really unnecessary unless it's part of the context that you're in, like what we're

doing right now.

This is, this is praying to a lot.

This is us talking with a lot that we're recalling where we come from, what our original

source is, which is love and light.

But if we talk about that with the wrong people, they will be disturbed, they will be upset

and they go, what do you, some kind of rag headers trying to be spiritual?

I hate spirituality.

There is no God.

And you know, and they go off into their belief system, which for a lot of people is an

unbelief system.

But it's about beliefs.

Yeah.

I think that's what stems, you know, the primordial questioning is just recently with friends

of ours of Lisa and Ivan, they're good friends and sort of see them regularly, but he's

a beautiful person, but where we started getting into this conversation about his era God

is a new God and he's an atheist.

And so I started like opening up a little bit and yeah, he's sort of like, I could see

that he got to starting to get somewhat uncomfortable and I showed up that quickly, but I thought

yeah, you know, just sometimes how much do you reveal, how much should you reveal?

And so this made me question about, yeah, and other parts that I play within family and

friends and so forth, but I really like the thing about the masks, about putting the

mask on and then taking it off.

Yeah.

What you said before, I mean about, well, how far do you go in when you're in this kind

of discussion about God or a large, and to me, what she always taught, she said, you

don't go out and try and fix people unless they ask you a specific question in relation

to that, which means that they're ready to talk about it.

You don't push it because they didn't bring it up.

Yeah.

It doesn't mean you can't ask a question or tell a story, but you can't go, you can't

go front door with that.

You have to be oblique about it.

I agree with you.

I mean, the thing is, we're not here to tell people about being Sufis, we're here to

grow fruit and give them the fruit, right?

If they want to come and learn how to be a tree, that's fine, but if they don't, who cares?

And half the people I know who are atheists have much better adab than people who are really

just anyway.

Maybe.

Yeah, that's true.

Let him bear it.

Let him be a good atheist rather than a bad religious person.

Well, as Shaikh said, I don't know if they have their own religion being in my case.

Yeah, they don't want to.

Let's go outside.

Are you a true Anzacian?

What are you saying?

Anzac.

No.

Okay.

In the sacrifice of our soldiers.

Yeah.

I can give you a liberal market.

And interest rates.

Do you believe in interest rates?

Because they're out there.

We have to make sacrifices so that the federal reserve bank, otherwise they're going to

embrace the interest rates.

Yeah.

Well, I think that's just just going on that topic on that's what's probably good about

it.

Or maybe I shouldn't.

Yeah.

But yeah, about that.

Our Tariqa.

When you're saying Shaikh that, you know, sort of, you move without being, moving without

being recognized, then sometimes you observe the other Sufi Tariqa, especially traditionally.

There was the whole close and the hats and the, and so people easily identified them.

The hats and the.

Yeah.

But I like the idea of going under cover.

If you approach it also as as curious curiosity as science, you know, you're here to learn

Allah.

We all are and that everything is a teaching.

Everything, you know, as, get as much as we can out of whatever the situation or experience

is.

And that takes us, it keeps our mind open and flexible.

And when somebody comes with a contrary point of view to try and see it from that point

of view, means that we are extending our critical thinking base so that we're trying to understand

how other people think.

It opens up part of our mind.

I mean, for me, and I probably for anybody who does teaching, if some.

The person that you're teaching is not getting the lesson.

It means they're thinking in a different way than you are.

And you have to figure out, well, how are you, what is your perception?

What do you, how do you see things?

Because you're having trouble with this when everybody else is not.

So I have to puzzle this one out and, and readjust and reexamine my approach with you.

I just had this happen, Wednesday night, a piano student, he's really smart, but it's hard for him to focus for any length of time and especially trying to read music.

And so I kind of went back to what I learned about autism and thought, I'll make it into

puzzles.

And I'll ask him questions rather than telling him what to do.

And that seemed to work a lot better as well as, you know, making little rewards go along

the way and go, yeah, good job there.

So learning to adjust our, our approach to different situations and experiences and people

keeps us flexible.

And that flexibility is part of what can, can, can keeps us alive without flexibility.

We become brittle.

From brittle, you become hard and not flexible, making it difficult for you to shift to new

things and new ways.

In a situation, sometimes, for me, I have to kick myself and go, no, that's your old

way of thinking.

This person's got something that's completely different that you're not aware of.

You have not thought along those lines before.

And so I'll have to ask them questions.

I'll have to figure out, well, how do you see things?

You know, and be, you know, get specific about it so I can learn their point of view.

Often they've got something to teach you as well, besides, like, actually, they've got

actually something to teach you.

Like, like, working with these kids, one of them was having difficulty going in the

addition algorithm.

I couldn't work out, you know, why, and turned out it was because he's so good at adding

numbers in his head.

He was needed to him.

He was just frustrated because it was slow.

Yes.

Wow.

But he could actually add the numbers faster without using it and get then he was accurate.

And he taught us all some really good mental strategies.

So he taught me.

Yeah.

You never know when a lesson's coming in.

The likes don't, don't flash unless you're getting pulled over for speeding.

Yeah.

Then you're learning something.

I mean, does that help answer your question?

Yes.

Thank you, Shaykh.

It does.

Yeah.

It's a tricky thing living in this contemporary world with all of these different faces we have

to put on to get through the different relationships that we are in.

No, I'll just say, I like what you said about maybe seeing people within, you know,

that the monkey body, but there's, you know, the life that's inside every one of us.

So then come in all these different shapes and sizes.

But we see beyond that, you know, the light and there just playing out their own conditioning,

whatever that may be.

But we tell this one anyway, I tend to initially judge that first appearance, but there's so much,

so much more beyond.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Now, that's just my view of things.

I'm not saying this is how everybody, this is how you should look.

But for me, it's kind of when I look at somebody, it's not like, yeah, they're here, but they've

got this time extension behind them of all the other experiences and maybe lives they've

had.

They've cut and that we're seeing them just at this point.

And this is the sum total of what they've gotten so far.

And we're seeing that output in this moment and everybody is at a different place.

Nobody has, I mean, there's some somewhat parallel motion, but I see everybody is at different

points along the road of education.

And then you can't compare yourself with somebody else.

There could be that there's no, no worldly reason why you should compare yourself because

there's so many variables that makes up each of us and that we're each unique because

of that insanity.

They say is when you try and do the same thing over and over again and get the same answer.

I think it's the same when you try and think you want to fix people or that you want to,

you have expectations from somebody that is not in that place that you expect them to

be or that you want them to be.

And that's hard.

It's hard to accept somebody just as they are.

Yes?

Yes.

They're dying on.

And that also goes for how far ourselves I have.

I wish, especially when you learn a new lesson, you go, I wish I'd known that before.

It would certainly cost us money.

Oh, absolutely, definitely that.

So I was going to go off a little bit about surrender and what that really means because

I think in English, it has a give up context to it, which I think is useless and has nothing

to do with giving up.

It means what I was talking about before of identifying what we, what our attachments

are, what we are identifying as and looking at those, which very often are subconscious

where we're not aware that we're thinking that way.

But it goes all the way across all, all different contextual perspectives, you know, whether

it's gender, age, education, any of those kinds of things, it's all going to be about

Haqqiqa, the reality of what we have and what we have to work with and being honest about

that.

Not that we shouldn't have expectations and, you know, I can do better, but also realizing

that it's all a process that it has, it's not like you achieve enlightenment or perfection.

It's more an ongoing process of re-examining what you know and comparing it to what you've

just learned.

And some of it is ongoing, some of it is a continuation and, you know, as you work

through and have, some of them are preparing you for the next level.

And though you think, well, I don't need to have that anymore, maybe it's connected

to something deeper and you were working on that.

And the idea of surrender in this case is understanding that the process of getting closer

to Allah is getting rid of anything that interferes with that connection.

So we're really good at whole holding umbrellas in front of us and going, well, I don't want

I don't want light to follow on me.

I don't want blessings to be on me because, 1, I am not worthy.

Two, I've done bad things, three and on and on.

And these, you know, I'm a loser or I'm, I'm spiritual or I'm a Sufi or, you know,

whatever you identify with is always going to get in the way of the actual connection

with Allah.

And understanding how that works in each of us independently in the sense of light yours

is different than mine is important to, to recognize and articulate.

And the surrendering part of that means that you are aware that you have occlusion, you

know, astigmatisms between you and Allah.

And the process of what we're working on now of getting rid of the Nafs is learning to

recognize and articulate what those blots are and figuring out a way to remove them.

And that the more that you remove them, the better and more efficient you become in

dealing with them as they arise.

So there's a kind of like cleaning out the claws at first and then figuring out how did

I do that and becoming more efficient on the day-to-day attachments that happen necessarily.

And being, and that's why the fluidity, the flexibility is important to go, yes, I

know I have a problem with that, I'm working on it.

And being honest with yourself, questions.

Going back to what you were saying before about how we're balls of light inside the monkey

suit.

And I know it's a simple answer, but my brain is just getting annoyed of like, how do you

stop the monkey suit from taking over?

It's very frustrating.

Good question.

First, you have to accept it that I have some default systems.

And when this happens, that triggers my old circuit that takes me into anxiety or frustration

or stress.

So you have to know what your buttons are.

It could be around certain kinds of people or specific people that put you back into

that mode, especially family and friends, because you've known them so long, there are

these little demands that can be triggered.

And to recognize those, learn to recognize those when you're with that person or a situation.

And understand that you're going to fall into that routine.

And then you prepare for it.

You work on that.

You can work on that.

But there's a couple strategies you can do.

But the other part of that is learning how to shut down the chatter.

And to do that, you need to stop completely, totally for just a few minutes.

And that you work on that over time.

And that you need to do it every day so that you practice learning how to put the breaks

on monkey chatter.

And that's what I wrote about last article was about how to stop.

And the way to do that, the simplest way is to sit and breathe.

Don't think, if you have thoughts, take it back to the breath.

Don't play games with yourself like, oh, I'm so stupid.

It's kind of like, just shut up.

Just stop for at least five or ten minutes.

I mean, you've been working on that, yes?

Yes, yes.

How's that going for you?

It's interesting because you do try and, yeah, you said, try and stop the brain.

You just be aware, but you realize how much of the condition mind just continually wants

to chatter and talk and think about this or think about that.

And then you observe how the wiring is just so automatic.

And then you're like, well, you know, where are all these thoughts coming from?

And why am I so fixated on thinking about, I have to do this and I have to do that.

What's wrong with just sitting here?

Is this just a joke?

Is this real like tennis guy or this game going on?

And it makes you think, well, is this held by mind operates every day?

People don't sit down and...

Yeah, it's done.

Yeah, yeah, so it is an interesting experience or experiment at the evaluation.

Yeah, so to stop the brain, that is the most efficient way is not to get lost

at any kind of technique or special thing you do or anything.

The idea is just stop.

Flat line for a little while.

Now, what happens is is if you've ever been out in the ocean on a little boat,

it'll always be rocking.

And then if you've ever been in a storm, it will be very big rocking.

And the idea is to bring your storm down until you're just getting a little bit of rocking.

And that rocking comes from the default of daily life and learning to be more in charge of your brain.

And the best way to be in charge of your brain is to keep it oxygenated.

And so the breathing slow and just without forcing anything, no force at all.

You don't force the breath, you don't even count it.

Now, there's a lot of techniques about breathing.

And my, you know, if you just want to get started, it's just sit and breathe.

You'll keep your eyes open, you can close, I don't care.

There's no right way, but in learning to become aware that there's a chatter going on all the time,

helps you realize I'd like, and your intention needs to be clear about this too.

I'm just going to sit here and breathe.

Yes, the brain's going to kick into gear and it's going to go back to, it's going to work.

Oh, you know, the cogs are going to go.

That's totally normal.

That's it's default.

You've made it the default.

You'd like to change the default.

You'd like to change the default to calm.

But you guys have all been on, how that's, you've been on retreats.

You know what the first three days are like.

You can't even get started until after three days have gone by.

And finally, your brain starts to go, huh, I don't really need to work anymore, do I?

I'm on retreat.

Huh, I forgot what this is like, but it's hard to remember that.

My problem is because I always forget things and miss things is that I always worry that,

you know, I'm being irresponsible by stopping because, which is actually the opposite.

It's actually more responsible to become because you're able to respond when you are still

incentive, but it feels like a waste of time when you have things that need to be fulfilled

because it seems like it's taking time away from those duties.

So the tricky part is convincing yourself that this time is well spent.

And then it will actually provide energy and focus for the next task.

I've been learning a lot from my kids at school as well because I've got this rhythm going

now, but we do a task and then we have a rest time and then we do a task and then the

rest time.

And I'm teaching them breathing as well.

And whenever I skip over the rest time and try to do two things in a row or skip over

the breathing, it's just like, it's a really good reminder, you know, like that if the

water's not still, you're going to splash, you're just going to splash it around, not

achieving anything.

It's inevitable.

You've got to stop the right way, otherwise what you're doing is kind of just wishy-washy.

That's true.

And to understand that even if he started today, again, it'll take four to five days before

your brain understands what you're trying to do.

However, by doing that, you are learning how to maintain a presence, though your own

presence, your own heartfulness within yourself in more situations that you wouldn't usually

be able to, because you're able to stay grounded, you're able to bring your brain back under

control.

You know what I keep saying is, so who's in charge of your brain?

Take charge when you can and let go when you can, you know, finding that balance, but

you have to know what balance looks like and what it feels like.

No, means everything is working fine.

It's perfect.

Everything is where it's supposed to be.

That means for our brain, what is nominal for you?

Where is it when you are at rest, yet functioning?

What does that look like?

Here in your happy place.

You're rested enough, you've been engaged enough, and you can sit and breathe because

you're at your best.

If not, then you are returning to your best.

And this is something you consider yourself if you need to, you know, put an affirmation

together like I am the presence of health, wealth and happiness, or Yah Wadud, Ya Salam,

Ya Fattah, or whatever works for you.

Otherwise if you don't do these things, then you go back to the default, which is, oh,

and to me, that's kind of the overarching container of surrender.

That surrender is a recognizing that there are parts of you that have identities that

are not right and you're working on it so that you can be closer to Allah.

And when you're close to Allah, then you're coming to your nominal state and you're coming

into where you are supposed to be and finding those things that help you get to that place

and maintain it as part of your job, that's your responsibility.

It's a nice way that the natural state of a human or the normal state of a human is to

be content and to be, you know, with a lot of your happy place.

Yeah, exactly.

So finding what that looks like and experimenting, there's not one right way.

There is a combination of ways for each of us and not comparing ourselves to others.

We're all here to learn from each other, but the comparing doesn't help.

Each of us has our own strengths and weaknesses and inventory and what those are honestly

is our job, you know, how whatever works for you.

That's why Sufism isn't a religion because each of you is completely different.

I can't preach.

This is how things should be.

I can advise and suggest breathing is good.

I was listening to you talking about, you know, you can't make us, without bashing two

stars together and all that kind of thing.

How everything has this long evolutionary is expressed behind it.

And then I was thinking, then what about those stories and it's kind of intuition.

I have this as possible that anything is possible.

You know, like a kind of wink and create seven green chickens, you know, like whatever

it is like, how does that fit into this like things have a certain way of happening in

this universe, you know, like that there's a, that there are rules and tendencies towards

everything.

But I think something about what you said about stopping and intention and being an awareness

kind of resonated with as the answer to that, that when everything is stable and focused,

then it's like the power of this, like of the heart and the mind to transform, like

a light coming through, if you're out of the way, then yeah, light can do anything because

there's that light from the beginning of the universe that can transform anything, but

you have to be still enough to, so not interfere with it.

And that's right, you have to be out of the way to allow the light to come through.

And then things happen that flow, and it's not like you do anything.

And it's more like you're more of a franchise of a lot, you go, okay, we got one right

here.

Let's do it right through here.

Oh, yeah.

Yeah.

Muhyiddin,

Yeah.

He's the guy right there.

Yep.

Good.

There you go.

Wow.

That was cool.

Yeah, and suddenly it wasn't for me.

Yes, that's right.

Alhamdallilah.

Next, what's next?

And to be grounded, centered, and trying to stay at your nominal state and find out

what that is so that you can find ways to maintain it and support it.

That's important.

That's also part of our responsibility.

You know, where do we work best?

How do we, how do we achieve balance?

And part of it is, as I'm saying, is identify, you know, identify those things that we pretend that we are.

I am this.

I am that.

I'm a fireman.

I'm a teacher.

I'm a pianist.

I am a this.

No, you're not.

I mean, something that you do sometimes, but that isn't who you are.

Your love in a chimpanzee package.

Isn't that a paradox?

Yeah.

How about that?

More mysteries.

What would life be without mysteries?

You mentioned something about stories that, and to me, that the idea of imagination is prevalent in a lot of us.

Some of us are a little bit more obsessed with it than others.

I think this is kind of one of those side effects of having this kind of brain.

And learning how to connect with others and with the law and having a sensitivity to energy.

And I think it's a blessing that we can come up with ideas and stories that help us understand ourselves and our relationships.

I think it's a side effect of what one aspect of it is a side effect of having this kind of trillions of cells all grouped together into this trillions of cells.

And we think there's a me here.

And that's kind of which of these cells are you?

It doesn't work that way.

I think some of it is developed from surviving.

And another is the aspect of just being.

Being in all the possibilities of being.

And yes, what the law anything is possible.

I remember asking shake one time.

Is there a resurrection?

Do we have multiple lives?

He said, who's in charge of this place?

I said, Allah.

Well, is anything possible with Allah?

Yes.

Oh.

Right.

Thank you.

And indeed, thank you.

Thank you.

Thank you very much.