Tests

A single poem can snap us out of the small story we live in. We start with Hafez, then move straight into a hard, honest theme: spiritual tests. The Quran promises we’ll be tried through fear, hunger, and loss, but the question that matters is how we meet the moment. We talk about surrender to Allah as a lived practice, not an abstract idea, and how humility, gratitude, and patience repair a heart that feels disconnected.

From there, we widen the frame to the modern world. The news runs on emotional capture, and doomscrolling turns a person into a data point while anxiety, loneliness, and depression rise in the background. We explore what it means to stay informed without being consumed, how to focus on what we can actually do with our hands and voice, and why quieting the mind is essential if we want to hear the heart again.

We also get practical about inner work in a Sufi path: identifying the voices of the nafs, tracing fear and doubt back to their sources, and rebuilding habits through intention, zikr, and time. Letting go is not a slogan, so we share concrete tools like breathing, body relaxation, visualization, and even humor as a way to break rigid fear structures. If you’ve had a relapse into old patterns, we talk about neuroplasticity and why the “test” often returns until the lesson lands.

If this conversation helps, subscribe, share it with a friend who feels overwhelmed, and leave a review with one insight you’re taking into your week.

Salaam Alaykum, murids, seekers, curious and interested listeners,

We appreciate you, and are happy to share our Sufi Message. Your donation will  help support our Sufi Centre in Sydney where we offer Zikr, Sohbet, spiritual counselling and healing services. We believe the message should be free, but it costs equipment, rental, services, software and hardware to get this to you.

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Transcript

Opening Invocation And Grounding

Shaykh Ibrahim 0:20

Izbilahim and Ashitani regime, Bismillah Iraqman Irahim Alhamdulillah Rabbil Alamin, Iraqman Irahim, Maliki Yomadin, Iyakana Bodua Yakanastain, Idina Sarata Mustakim Sarataladzina Namta Lakim Hairil Machdubialakim Wala Dalien Hu Madad Madad Madad Yar Allah Yarasulala Yah Abdukarajalani Yak Madara Fay Yasik Tana Saiyashek Muzain and Sari Mad Yapukulamana Sahibal Medan Hu start with a poem by Mr. Hafez. Just to kick us into gear here. It's called The Earth Braces Itself.

Shaykh Ibrahim 1:22

The Earth braces itself for the feet of a lover of God about to dance.

Speaker 2 1:29

The sky becomes very timid when a great saint starts waving his arms in joy, for the sky knows its prized fixtures, the sun, the moon, and the planets, could all wind up rolling so wild on the floor.

Speaker 2 1:49

My dear, this world, its laws, our perceptions, are such a minute part of existence, should not all of our suffering and sadness be like this, as just dropped from an instant's palm that is asleep against the breast of God?

Speaker 2 2:16

The earth raises itself for the feet of Hafiz.

Speaker 2 2:20

The sky pulls a mirror from its pocket and is practicing looking koy. For the beloved has at last opened his arms and is inviting my heart to eternally dance.

Speaker 2 2:33

The day candle, the sun, has forgotten the hour.

Speaker 2 2:36

The whole world has gone joyously mad.

Why Life Tests Us

Speaker 2 2:40

Look, the sun's sweet cheeks are blushing in the middle of the night, desiring the rampage of the feet of God's lovers. I would like to talk about tests. We all get tests, and in the Quran it mentions that Allah will test us. It says, We will surely test you with something of fear and hunger and a loss of wealth and lives and fruits, but give good tidings to the patient. As with almost everything in this life, we can choose how to approach tests. Attitude is everything. And when you align yourself with the idea of surrender, that is not trying to play God, but to allow Allah to guide and instruct us, then this testing could appear instructional, or at least positive. How you approach your problems is part of the training of becoming a human being. Questions? Make sense? So when you become a Sufi, that is, learning how to surrender to Allah, you learn that staying positive is a way to stay balanced. When you can understand that Allah is merciful, compassionate, that He wants you to stay connected, then the situations that develop in your life become meaningful in deeper ways. You have signed up for a very personal and intimate educational system designed just for you. No one else is going to receive this guidance as you do, which makes the events that transpire look brilliant and fascinating when you can tune into them. And yes, sometimes they're horrible and debilitating. But your capacity is increasing and your perspective broadening and your understanding deepening. Make sure, though, that you never think, oh, I've got it. Because the next moment that feeling will disappear and you'll realize that there is no end to learning and growing. Allah is infinite. This is one of the aspects of the training that keeps us humble. And humility is one of the keys to repairing the heart that has gotten disconnected. Gratitude, positivity, and the knowledge that Allah is always here, always ready, always teaching, always just, patient, and loving.

Staying Human In Bad News

Growth Requires Flexibility And Humility

When The Big Test Arrives

Building A Spiritual First Aid Kit

Shaykh Ibrahim 5:57

Testing sometimes help us helps us to reset our primary intention. It stops us for a moment, which is a good thing. And that is when we remember to ask, what is our purpose here? It's not acquiring cars, clothes, computers, or clicks. It's not about being famous or rich. It's not about being happy or sad. The answer is staying connected to our heart and through the heart to Allah. Our friend has made it as easy as possible to keep our focus and intention clear. Of course, on this great sea of life, our little boat will get blown off course. That's natural. That's nature. And it's easy to be buffeted by emotional weather, coming from relationships, work, or money. The directive we have is to get back on course. We're headed towards a safe harbor. And life is like sailing on the ocean. We never know what's going to hit us next. And the most important lesson here is to understand that there is no meanness or vindictiveness associated with any of it. So approaching the events as instructive or as guidance or a smack upside the head to help you remember who you are and why you're here, it can be taken as a love tap or a wake-up alarm. Who doesn't get wrapped up in their personal problems? And when we're nudged, we look up and around and notice that there are also other problems, like climate change, resulting in the oceans rising and massive storms, floods, and political chaos. Yes. And what are you going to do about it? We have to remember that we're responsible for what we can actually do with our own hands and voice. And I think it helps to remember that the news is based on a simple advertising concept. That which bleeds leads. In other words, like all social media, the corporations make money on getting you emotionally involved. If they can get you angry, sad, or even agreeing with you, you are now part of their algorithm. You've become enmeshed in an unbelievably and impossibly to understand the tiny consumer bit in their machines. You're not known as a human anymore. You're known as a data point. And wherever and whenever you click your mouse, they're following your desires. And they'll prompt you for more by following up on whatever gets you involved. And this will lead to a disconnection in your heart with depression and loneliness following closely behind. It is addictive, and binging in somewhat called doom scrolling snatches and subtracts time and valuable life. We haven't mastered our technology, but instead it is currently our master, and that is a test as well. Tests come in all kinds of shapes and sizes and ways. A question one might request from the friend is, please show me what I need. Help me recognize and learn your lessons gently and easily. Because whatever lesson you need, if you don't get the hint, it will come back and hit you a little harder. And it won't go away until you have completed the assignment and passed the test. It's not because you are a failure or loser or any of that victim crap. This goes for every single person. No one gets a free ride here. The more responsibilities you are given, the more the lessons and therefore continuous tests. Of course, you can always get off the train of learning and growing. Nothing and no one is forcing you to advance. You do it because you choose to. To stop growing, all you have to do is say, that's enough. I'm good. I'm comfortable. I'm where I need to be. And that is when you start dying. That which is static, brittle, uncompromising, and arrogant dies. Living requires flexibility, balance, growth, humility, surrender, and a deep sense of the roots that are in the soil. Watching the trees and plants bend in the wind teaches flexibility. All of nature, when seen with the eyes of the heart and the mind, instructs us in what life needs to maintain balance. It's a guide that is always available for those that want to see or those that can see. And that means that every moment is a test in itself. Are you remembering to breathe slowly? Are you aware of what is around you, what is impacting you at this moment? Are you aware of others and able to serve appropriately? Or are you thinking about yourself again, locked in the dark closet of your own worries and needs? Tests help remind us that we once asked for closeness to the sacred. We want to learn how to open our hearts intelligently with sincerity and openness. Tests also show us when we have passed a lesson because we no longer are attached to the original filaments that bound us. And one by one we cut the strings that made us puppets of our culture, our family, our friends, our religion, our community. We grow guided by the profound knowledge of our heart, to become connected to love, truth, peace, and joy. And no, it's not an easy path, but it is a fulfilling and deeply rewarding one. Is what you think until the big one rolls in. This will likely be a death, a crippling illness, a divorce, a major loss, something that profoundly shakes your world to the core. And you thought you had it together. Your entire personal edifice crumbles and you're left alone staring at gravestones. What happened to that fulfillment? Whatever where did inner peace go? The friend is not jealous. She tapped you on the noggin to remind you that none of your worries and concerns really matter. The future goals, what could have been if only there's probably a completely new kind of world waiting for you, but you've got to shed the old skin to enter it. There's too many scratches, blisters, pimples, sores, and wounds for it to be effective any longer. And again, you have not failed, though you may hear that voice louder than the others. It just means it's time to move on. A new pathway is beginning to appear, the process begins, but then there's first the anger, the pleading, the negotiations, the fantasies of all those hopes and dreams, and slowly they will fade into the distance. The common pattern is first stripping anything away that is not you. And it's difficult to do this ripping away gently. It's usually painful. But then you become naked, vulnerable, and probably miserable. Oh good. A new beginning. Yay! This is dying before you die. That old self could use a jolly nice funeral, probably. Some people gather photos and paraphernalia from their old world, place them in a container, and either burn them or bury them in a nice funereal kind of ceremony or a happy confetti time or however they do it. To get to the new world where you belong, a rite of passage can be helpful. And then you want to know, well, who am I if I'm not any of that? That's a good question. This process is going to take a while. And as you consider what you've learned over the years regarding the situation, you realize, oh, oh, so this is a test. This is a test? Yes, this is a test. If you approach it as such, you need to get your balance back and reconnect with your heart. It may be broken, it may be suffering, but you will get through this because you now know where your inner strength comes from. Being around friends of the heart will soften the blows and buffeting of this time. You will most likely encounter inner journeys into rehashing choices that you once had made, and then you now begin to see that they were not as smart as you thought they were at the time. I have found that having a place to assemble a spiritual first aid kit has often come in handy. Seeds, stones, photos, poetry, songs, gifts. They can assist in remembering who I was when I entered this old world to remind me of beauty, love, some compassion, and simplicity. They are like signposts of specific moments when I was able to touch my heart. Probably asking, how long will this pain last? At least several months, if not several years. We're each unique, and this kind of transformation requires all of our various parts to undergo shifts in understanding and processing of the experiences. Several external tools are available. There's therapy with an experienced counselor, meditation, withdrawal for quiet reflection, artistic expression, athletic endeavors, travel, books, comedy clubs, improvisational theater, walks in nature. You may find it helpful to approach this like a scientist with objective curiosity, so that you approach it as an experiment and you're trying to find out different ways to find out what works best for you. Anger's going to come up. If anger arises, you notice it, but you don't act on it. You find creative ways to channel it, and there's nothing wrong with feeling angry. It's part of the human equation. It is, though, important to find your path that allows you to detoxify. Keeping it in, not expressing it, will make you sick. Balance is dynamic, not static. It is important to stay on top of your mental, physical, and spiritual health. If you cannot withdraw for a period of time, continue to do your job, but keep silent vigil on your heart. It doesn't help to talk about it with people who do not know you. Observe, withdraw at lunch breaks. Keep to yourself while you puzzle this out. Above all, trust that your heart knows what you need. Listen to it closely and carefully. Try to avoid imagination and nefs sneaking their nasty voices in. Your rawness is sacred and holy. It requires nurturing, caring, and careful protection. Guard it. It is the pilot light for your soul. It is the torch that will guide you into the new world. You don't want to jump into the unknown without some kind of guidance, and your heart is the best of all. Take it slowly, gently, be kind to yourself and especially to others. Your heart loves that. Continue finding what your heart enjoys. Eventually you will find others who enjoy you for your heart's joy. Then a smile will begin that warms not just your face but your entire being.

Naming The Voices And Resetting Intention

Speaker 2 21:50

Yeah, it feels um at this time um there is some things that Allah's showing. Me, which trying to be observant of and um trying to find the the lessons and though it's not comfortable, it seems like yeah, you're presented with a choice and it's sort of like the choice, the conditioning, the old conditioning is to sort of dig deeper into problems or um anxieties and just go round and round, you know, it's like the you know the pig in the mud, or the other choice is to be with your heart and as you said, check sort of see what the lesson is. So I think yeah, that that's part of that's resonated for for me. Um the other thing which sort of resonated about if it bleeds it, um it bleeds. I haven't not a really big social media follower, but I do have Twitter or X, what it's called. Um, and I have observed in the past where I can just keep scrolling and scrolling and scrolling. So I've just really noticed in the last couple of weeks, especially with everything that's been happening with the war in Iran and Iraq, that has been having an effect on me, what I've been reading, so I've decided to delete it and um just to sort of be a bit more conscious of my energy. Um the third thing, and I suppose it's probably a question, is um the the lessons or one's individual test. So if one is observant, and I'm speaking quite general, it's probably a bit hard to be specific, but if one is seeing what the lesson is, but yet you're still you're feeling you know the anxiety, the worry, the frustration, all of the above, is it just that you just sort of be with your heart and um hand it over to Allah? Or is it also connected to going to the source of what's created that anxiousness and that frustration in the first place? Or is it case specific how how you handle it? I think it's person-specific.

Speaker 24:29

Yeah.

Shaykh Ibrahim 24:29

How how you want to deal with this. I want to go back to one of the early things that you said. I think it's important to be able to identify, identify the voices that you're hearing and decide whether to listen to them or to ignore them. Because the Nefs have all these different voices. They're not just one thing, they they come from our parents, our teachers, and and people that we've had experiences with. And so the voices come in and they're just saying, you know, the old uh like tape loop. It's just kind of like just goes around and around. It doesn't change, but we're used to hearing it. Now some of these are like below consciousness. We they're they're going on, but we are picking them up. They're but we hear them on a different vibe because we haven't brought them to consciousness yet. They're below that. And you can't do all of them all at once, but you can do them one at a time. So as they come up, like you're just not good, you don't have any idea what you're doing. You know that one? We all know that one. Um, you you you look at it and you go, Well, does it have any significant information that I can use? Or is it just doing the tape loop thing? And then you learn to ignore it. And then one of the things that we have that's wonderful about Sufism is we can identify it, and by using the strategy of fighting the nafs, you learn not just to ignore it, but to rewire that little habit by going, you know, instead of hearing that, I would rather say bismillah or whatever, whatever zikr works for you to replace it, so that after a while, that energy now turns into something else. It takes a while, it it isn't immediate. But what gets all this going is what your intention is. So to get to the root of what you're talking about, you have to identify and very often go back to what's the intention? What was my original intention? And then when you hear these voices, you ask, you know, what is their intention? What do they want? What do they want from me? Oh, that one that's that's my father trying to tell me to be a doctor, you know, or you know, raise your status or whatever that that one is. So I think it's important to identify the voices, and then when you're having trouble making a choice, go back to what your original intention is. And if that doesn't work, you go back one more step and go, Well, what am I doing here? What's my what's the point? Well, what's what's my purpose here? And then you go, Oh, yeah, Allah. I'm I'm here because Allah wants me here and I'm here to learn. And what am I learning? You know, then you're being present. Sometimes too, doing something physical like slowly breathing, going back into like clearing the mind, stopping the chatter helps. The the problem with with the doom scrolling and all that is it increases the chatter and it is addictive. And it's really hard to undo that. So the less you do it, the easier it is to be able to come to a quiet mind. But you can't hear your heart if the mind is noisy. So you do what you need to do to bring peace inside. You know, at least for a few seconds, just kind of like and that's why the breathing is so important. Does that help?

Speaker 3 28:55

Yes, yes, thank you, Sha. It does.

Fear And Doubt With Clear Eyes

Shaykh Ibrahim 28:58

You know, and and asking also when you're trying to make a choice, which direction am I going? Am I going inward? Am I going outward? But the the trick is to find the balance. You know, we say it needs to balance both Zahir and Bateen when you're making a choice. You can't depend on one or the other. You have to find the balance. So, does this work outer? Does this work inner? Do I get information or am I still waiting on some data? I I don't have it in complete yet.

Speaker 4 29:33

Yeah. It it feels just on the something that you said too, that that's been coming up for me about the fear and doubt, and how and for I suppose for this one, fear and doubt for a long time has been something that's happening to me, or something that's been placed on me. And that's sort of that's transferred to a little bit about what you're saying when fear and doubt is okay. So, where did this come from? Um, I'm experiencing fear and doubt, but is this something you know from my mother who was highly anxious and fearful and of the world, or as an example, or is it from someone else? But recently it's sort of like the Quran refers to Shaitan as giving fear and doubt. So it's like, well, you know, is this is this just shaitan fear? Is fear and doubt at what I'm experiencing? Just shaitan trying to put me off not being with my heart.

Shaykh Ibrahim 30:40

And yeah, you can approach it from several different angles. One angle might be the one where you have constructed a scaffolding around yourself that has been used over your lifetime to protect you in one way or another, or that has brought comfort to you. The thing is, is that over time we become used to feeling these feelings even though they're negative feelings that like fear and doubt. They become friends, we know them really well. So why get rid of them if I know them? So again, you have to clarify the intention. What is my intention here? Do I want to get do I really want to get rid of them? First question. Or is there something that I is there some payoff that I'm getting by holding on to them? And so, yes, you at that point you do have to identify where it came from. You have to find the source and see if you want to hold on to it. And no, you can't just let it go, because that's just a song for frozen. To to actually let go of something, you have to do some tracking, hunting, and you have to be predatory. You have to go, I want to get rid of this, so where does it live? What is keeping it going? And then once you identify it, then you have to ask, what do I need to do to let it go? All of this requires time and effort and sense of humor.

Speaker 6 32:36

Yeah.

Shaykh Ibrahim 32:37

Approaching these things as a process is really important, and not to see them as uh binary. They're processes. So let's say I I I'm I have uh doubts about doing something new. I don't know if I want to do it, I don't know how to do it, and and I feel like uh I'm I'm no good. This is the um thing that needs to be sourced. You need to go into it and go, where did that come from? Okay, from my mother, who was uncertain about everything. Why was she uncertain? Because her husband abused her in some way or another. It's like that was their thing, it's not your thing. Therefore, you don't need it. Then you can identify, well, I'm not my mother. That takes some time just to kind of like clarify that. I am not her doubts. I have I have my own life, and it that means requiring separating uh and creating that boundary there that might require some assistance. It may it may be some tools that you don't have yet, or you know the tools, but you don't want to do them. Because that requires change. Change requires effort and time, and they also require you to undergo the change, which is very often painful because it's uncomfortable. So all of this has to be kind of um totaled up, you know. Well, I've got to do this and I've got to do this to get rid of that. Do I want to do that? Then you have to make the decision. Yes, I want to get rid of this, or no, I can live with it. If you want to live with it, yeah, okay, fine. Then don't worry about it.

Unchoosing Old Patterns Through Practice

Speaker 6 34:48

Yeah.

Speaker 4 34:49

Just thinking, like, because I know that a lot of the voices are external, but there's one that's popped up, I'm gonna keep this general, but there's one that popped up that I don't know if it I don't think it's come from anyone that I can think of from like when I was younger and stuff. So I'm like, I'm trying to work out kind of I don't know if it's like how it got there. I know it served a purpose when I was younger, and I know that this is one that I want to kind of in some ways learn to let go of. Um or at least learn to let go of elements of it because it's holding on quite tightly. But then I'm just kind of like so where did it come from? Just kind of I'm just processing right this second, so there's a bit going on in my head. But yeah, just kind of realizing that it's not always I guess what I just clicked in my head before was a lot of the time they're outside voices, but there's sometimes that they're not specifically, and I'm just trying to work out why I've got it basically.

Shaykh Ibrahim 35:52

Okay. What I'm if you don't mind, I'm gonna use this as a as a way of showing how to work with yourself and how to move through this. So the question that would come up then would be when did you first notice this? I'm guessing, yeah, primary school, seven level. So it's been around with you that you've been aware of it all this time?

Speaker 4 36:17

Yeah, on and off, um, especially in biggest sort of moments.

Shaykh Ibrahim 36:22

Okay. And then you're trying to decide is this a me thing or a not me thing?

unknown 36:32

Yeah.

Shaykh Ibrahim 36:34

What have you found so far?

Speaker 4 36:39

Well, I guess it's being part of a process of elimination in terms of are you talking in terms of internal, external voices?

Shaykh Ibrahim 36:47

If you we were a scientist and we were keeping track of this experiment, we want to know what much data do we have on it. Open the file and tell me what information do you have so far have on it?

Speaker 4 37:06

I know what I'm gauging, what the purpose it served was when I was younger. And why it filled a need. I haven't noticed any links between that voice and external influences. When I've been looking at it, I noticed that it served a purpose when learning where it came into practice, like where it was beneficial in some ways.

Shaykh Ibrahim 37:45

Okay.

Speaker 4 37:45

Um, and why. And I'm noticing, well, from what I've analyzed, I'm not seeing links to specific external sources. Okay, so you you put it in place. Like it doesn't sound like this is something that someone's taught me.

Shaykh Ibrahim 38:03

Yeah. You chose to put it in place and it worked. You created it and it worked.

Speaker 4 38:12

Yeah, it served a purpose when I was younger, definitely.

Shaykh Ibrahim 38:15

Okay, I understand. I think I did the same thing. I did my own thing, but yeah. Now you have to figure out does it work for me now? Is this something I want? If yeah, you think about it, like I chose to do this, now I unchoose it. But the process of unchoosing is kind of like unlearning. Yeah, it takes just as much energy to set it back to zero, and then you have to start the new one. That's why I'm talking about replacing it with a zikr or an affirmation or something that when it comes in, you replace it. But you have to have the intention and clarity in your head ahead of time so that you have a strategy that you can kick into place when it happens. This is how we change and overcome our nafs. It's one at a time, and it's making a clear intent, and as Sheikh Tanner would say, and you put it in the forefront of your consciousness, and then it becomes your primary directive for the next couple months. That's kind of how long it takes to change a habit. Something that's been around with you for so long, you know, it's been years, decades. So this is gonna take concentrated effort. And as you do it, let's say, um, can I ask what it is, or can you give me kind of a just general idea? It it's about holding on, not wanting to let go. Right. Okay. So what you want to do then is find out those things in yourself or in the world around you that looks like they allow things to let go, like a river. Oh, or the wind, or the rain, or anything that is fluid, as an example. I mean, you may have something else. Um, fire as well. Uh, elements are great for this kind of thing. Anything that that kind of has has this motion to it that is like yeah, like fluid. And so one way would be to do to develop for yourself your own kind of uh relaxation, affirmation, visualization of becoming that waterfall, for example, or a beautiful uh spring where you watch you're in in a in a pool and you're watching the the creek just flowing away, or you're on a boat and you're just floating down the river. You ever been on an inner tube down a river? Oh, what a it's wonderful.

Speaker 4 41:19

I don't think I have, but I can picture it, yeah.

Shaykh Ibrahim 41:21

Yeah. Or one of those water slides. You know, have fun with it. Make it as and and the more silly and the more fun and enjoyable it is, and the more kind of crazy it is, the stronger it has because you want to do it. So that when this thing comes up, oh, I don't know if I should let go of this, you imagine holding on to it and sliding down the water slide and just letting it go. So that you begin your body begins to let it go. Because I think in that kind of situation, I think the body is very much involved. Yeah. Your muscles contract just as you would with anything that you want to hold on to. Mine. So that that's kind of the primary feeling that I get when I when I think about holding on to something is mine. I close myself off. Yeah. The opposite is opening up and letting go. And I can feel my muscles relaxing as I do it. Massage would be good too, too. So you see, see where I'm going with this. I'm I'm kind of laterally thinking, well, what what helps me let go of things? And so sliding, falling, flowing, massage getting a massage, just feeling my my muscles becoming more uh relaxed, untensing.

Speaker 6 43:07

Hmm.

Shaykh Ibrahim 43:08

Thank you. I will think about I'm getting massage supper. Yeah, hot bath works for me. Everything is especially with a bad back. Getting the end is kind of like, oh, I keep forgetting. This feels really good. My back goes, ah, thank you. Why did you forget this? Heat's good.

Watchfulness Without Living In Fear

Speaker 6 43:35

Yeah. Okay. Good question. Rosie, something you want to add?

Speaker 5 43:46

Well, it goes right along with um something you said earlier and uh talking with Alamine and then with what Rokaya was saying. Um So I've been working with this structure. You mentioned creating a structure for yourself. And so as a tiny toddler, I began creating a structure of protection. And it was basically watchfulness and observation based in fear. And it's what I grew up with. It worked, it helped. You know, just be careful, be careful, be watchful. Don't do anything to set them off. So and also what you said a little while ago about how this it is very physical. I mean, it's it's in the cells, it ends up beat in the DNA, it ends up yeah. So what I've been doing, the lesson of it as I've been working with this recently, is keep the watchfulness, being watchful, being observant is good, it's useful, it's it's magnificent, really. I mean, you know, paying attention, those are all wonderful things, but to do it not in fear, you're not doing those things because you need the protection, you need to be careful not to upset the apple cart or you know, tip the boat, whatever. But being watchful and cautious and paying attention because there's so much wonderful things out there, there are so many interesting things, and yes, there are things that can protect us as well. There are dangers, you know, you're walking across the street or driving or whatever, um, cooking. The stove is hot, yes, and uh so what has evolved over the months with me is to make use of those things, those um attitudes and uh tools, but not using them because of fear, instead using them because of interest, because of the bottom line, a desire to go grow closer to Allah through watchfulness and observation and paying attention. So that's how it's evolving for me. Okay, so it's working for you, yeah, yeah, and it's really enjoyable. So uh, you know, to to not see that to change the attitude for me and have those qualities, those tools, but not be using them because of fear. Yeah.

Shaykh Ibrahim 47:25

Okay, good.

Speaker 5 47:26

Use them for growing and interest and a little bit of danger and protection. We always have to be wary, you know.

Shaykh Ibrahim 47:37

There is it brings up an idea that I've worked with sometimes because it was the only thing that worked for me, which was to go to to break the structure of of the fear, was to do exactly the opposite all the way and to turn it completely on its head. And I can recall the exact time that I made that choice and that decision. I I don't want to go too much into the history, but I needed to stop taking myself so seriously because it was driving me crazy. I was becoming depressed, I was because if I didn't get enough affirmation from the outside world, I would go into a deep depression and go suicidal, basically. And just like I don't want to go there anymore. So I thought, what what can I do that can stop it? So I'm 14 years old at the time. I was being, I don't want to go into that. Um so I decided I will try to look silly, I will become funny, I will allow people to laugh at me, I will help people laugh at me. If I can get people laughing at me, I am no longer to can take myself seriously. So I just I studied uh routines from comedians to get started, so that I could begin to do shticks, and people would laugh, and I would, it was like that was so curing to me. But it was kind of like um somebody described it as when you take the snake out from the pipe, it's gonna wiggle like crazy, and so I took that as a kind of uh image of like you need to get out of the pipe. What do you need to do? Just wiggle first, you know, just get it all out so that you can then become normal. And it worked, it it took a while, it wasn't an immediate kind of thing, but it was over time. I was like, yeah, okay, it's it doesn't matter what people think about me. That's fine. I'm not caught up in any of that now. But it was a long process and it was difficult, and it was based on, of course, pain. So um I'm I'm also suggesting if that works for you, if you can figure out a way to do it creatively, to sometimes you can get out of a uh a holding pattern by breaking it and by consciously, creatively breaking it in a way, or using your imagination to help you get on the other side of it to imagine that you're doing the wrong thing, because that the NAFS, no, they don't like that at all. No, never do that. That's terrible. What are you? Some kind of monster? Yeah, yeah, I'm a monster. Deal with it. And the NFs just go bloody crazy because they they can't handle it. And it's kind of like, that's what I want. It's just kind of, you know, if you need if you need a radical procedure, that sometimes works.

Relapse, Neuroplasticity, And The Long Game

Speaker 7 51:26

I'm reflecting on something that I've been working on, and um we've talked about this, you know, uh yeah, I've been working on something and um felt not so much like I got this, but um I got it a bit more under control than I had kind of this relapse, um, and I guess you could call it where I kind of kind of went back to my old ways and I was like, crap, I'm like all right, well I guess yeah, I guess I'm kind of starting at the beginning, it was a little bit disheartening. Um but yeah, I'm just thinking about some of the things that you you talked about with respect to you know getting the test. Um but also some some new things that um you you mentioned with like the the water slide and the you know or river uh analogy um for Rikaya, um and maybe maybe turning things on their head. Um I I don't know that there's necessarily or reflect on if there is a fear associated with this, but um I'm sure there I'm sure there is somewhere somewhere in there. But um yeah, well those are um uh some things I'd like to reflect on and apply it to this.

Shaykh Ibrahim 52:55

About relapses, I think it's important not to fall into the loser victim trap and to see it as just uh I didn't pass that test. That means I'm gonna get it again. Maybe I can get it right this time. And have a sense of humor about it because of course you're not gonna get it right every time. And what's happening is this neuroplastics process. This takes time. And yeah, you might have a couple of like good moments where, yeah, I'm caught up with this, but then you get distracted and you lose the momentum that you had, and it kind of falls back and you go back into the habit again. It's normal. That it's just part of the process, an understanding your own process that it isn't perfect, that there's there's a there's time going on as the wiring is changing, the more uh focus and intention that you can put into it, of course, it's gonna um speed it up some. But at the same time, there's also the unlearning, the unwiring that takes time to uh undo as well. So there's a whole unlearning and learning going on, and you can't really learn until the unlearning is completed. Then those the wiring can be solid if we are work that way, but it seems to be that way. I can still recall my first taking on of a NFS as uh I've got to do this, and just taking Sheikh Tanner at his word, you know. My wife at the time said I was too sarcastic all the time. And I thought, oh, okay, um I'll stop. I'll work on that. Well, I made the intention, I had a little ziker to do is to do it, but I wouldn't remember that I was sarcastic until about 48 hours later. Two days later, I went, oh yeah, I was sarcastic now, wasn't I? I went, that's not good. Okay, all right, I'll just keep at it. And I kept at it, and then it was like 48 hours, 24 hours later, the next the next day I went, oh yeah, I was sarcastic. And then it was 12 hours, then it was 10 hours, then two hours, one hour, and then and this is over two months of just focusing on not being sarcastic until finally it's like I could see the words in my mouth. I could see what I was going to say, and I went, no, stop, don't say it. I can hear it in my head going, why don't you say it? It's kind of like, no. And that had to go on for an uh a bit of time until finally I wasn't getting these anymore. They were like passing me by, and I didn't even, I wasn't even paying attention to them anymore. And it was kind of like, and I could see it was like this one was a test. It was absolutely a test. It was like, I could say this, it'd be so right, it'd be so proper and good, and they'd laugh. And it was kind of like, no. And then it went by and I went, I passed, I passed. So, yeah, that time, effort, concentration, focus, and making it your one focus is how you overcome the nefs. And the thing is, too, uh, and this applies to everybody, is just because you're working on that nafs doesn't mean you're not working on everything below. Everything else is connected to that, but you can't move to the next level until you've you've taken care of the boss on this level. When the boss is done, you go to the next level, and you go through the same thing, you meet the boss there. You got the boss of me. Come to the next level, and it works like that forever, for infinity. Keep learning and learning, overcoming new nafs. NIFs that you thought you had vanquished long ago comes back in a new form and a new mode, and you go, I thought I got rid of this. Well, you couldn't get rid of this part until you got rid of the other stuff. That's how it works, and that's why you trust your heart to guide you and know that it knows exactly what you need. You may disagree. So what? That don't matter. What matters is that you keep going. Like weeding. There's always something that goes way down, down, down. You didn't get the roots. You got the leaves. You gotta get to the roots, and the roots are way down there. Sometimes connected in all kinds of various compacted ways. Okay.

Speaker 7 59:12

Thank you, Shaykh. Thank you, everyone. Thank you, Shaykh.

Speaker 4 59:17

Thank you, Shakan everyone. That was really lovely.

Speaker 7 59:20

Love everyone.

Speaker 4 59:23

Have a wonderful weekend.