Beyond the Walls with Jeremy Thomas
Jeremy approaches Bible teaching with a passion for getting the basic doctrines explained so that the individual can understand them and then apply them to circumstances in their life. These basic and important lessons are nestled in a framework of history and progression of revelation from the Bible so the whole of Scripture can be applied to your physical and spiritual life.
Beyond the Walls with Jeremy Thomas
Nt Framework - Trinity: Beyond Creation and Time
How do we even begin to understand the Trinity and how three can be one?
More information about Beyond the Walls, including additional resources can be found at www.beyondthewalls-ministry.com
This series included graphics to illustrate what is being taught, if you would like to watch the teachings you can do so on Rumble (https://rumble.com/user/SpokaneBibleChurch) or on YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLtV_KhFVZ_waBcnuywiRKIyEcDkiujRqP).
Jeremy Thomas is the pastor at Spokane Bible Church in Spokane, Washington and a professor at Chafer Theological Seminary. He has been teaching the Bible for over 20 years, always seeking to present its truths in a clear and understandable manner.
Welcome to Beyond the Walls with Jeremy Thomas and our series on the New Testament Framework. Today a smaller, bite-sized piece from the larger lesson. We hope you enjoy it.
Speaker 2:Now, this would indicate that the Father is uniquely constituted to do some things, the Son is uniquely constituted to do other things and the Spirit others. It's not that the Father could have been the one who came and died for our sins, or the Spirit could have. It can't be that way, because that's not who God is. In some sense, in some way, that's not who God is. Now let's talk about that's the Trinity, with respect to creation and time, and there are roles there that can be distinguished. But let's talk about His threeness as it refers to eternity. They call this the ontological trinity. That's a physics word, but anyway, not a physics word, a philosophy word. Ontological trinity okay, what it looks at is God's relationship within himself. Who cares about creation? Okay, this is not talking about creation at all. Forget us, it's just him. There was a time when there was just God. Okay, this is not talking about creation at all. Forget us, it's just him. There was a time when there was just God, right? Well, not really, because there was no time. See, did you catch the limitations? In human language, god doesn't exist in time. So I can't really say there's time before creation. It's just a limitation. But you know what I mean it's sufficient. We can communicate. For example, god the Son did not become the Son at the incarnation, because the incarnation is something that took place in time, right? So the question is well, when did the Son become the Son and when did the Father become the Father? Because doesn't a father become a father at the birth of a son? Okay, but there's no birth of His sonship. He is eternally the Son, eternal sonship. So this is talking about God in His being. Who cares about creation, just who is God? And God is Father and he is Son and he is Spirit from all eternity. That didn't change at the incarnation when Jesus took to Himself a humanity in the Virgin Mary. There was no essential change in God. When that happened was there Because God forever was Father and Son. He was forever Father and Son and always will be Father and Son. So this is an ontological trinity issue and it's really based on this concept that I have here at the end of the quote, where it says god never changes and he is a satiety. Okay, a satiety.
Speaker 2:This is the idea of self-existence. He just exists. People say where did god come from? Because what are they thinking? Everything comes from somewhere. Therefore, where does God come from? That is, do what you take a created category of coming into existence. Typically, we think of birth, and then we say we project that on God and we say, well, god had to come from somewhere, because everything comes from somewhere. Excuse me, excuse me, everything comes from somewhere. How do you know that? Well, because my experience says something everything comes from somewhere.
Speaker 2:Well, the whole point is that God didn't come from anywhere. He is self-existing, he doesn't need anything outside of himself. He's self-sustaining and he has self-existence. This is the concept of aseity. So, no, all things don't have a beginning and all things don't come from somewhere. Some things just are, in this case, a self-sufficient, all-sufficient being. So that's the ontological idea about God.
Speaker 2:God exists in himself and he's. Is he loving within himself, within the Trinity? Yeah, is he sovereign within himself? Yes, is he just within himself such that he never sins? Is he righteous within himself such that he never? Yes, is he just within himself such that he never sins? Is he righteous within himself such that he never? Yes, he's able in some way to exercise all of his attributes within himself, whether or not there's a creation. What this means, then, is that God didn't need us, but it does mean that, well, we do need him. We very much need him. Now. I think this is a point.
Speaker 2:I wanted to take you over to Acts 17 real quick. Well, let's just do it now. Acts 17, because I actually missed this, but this is a good point to inject it. Acts chapter 17, when Paul's at Athens and he's talking to the intellectually elite, the philosophers of the age, those who lived after Socrates and Aristotle and Plato, and they'd gone through the forms and blah, blah, blah, and all this stuff, all this development of some kind of way of thinking, and Paul is there in that city where they thrive.
Speaker 2:Right, and notice what he says in verse 27 and 28. They, that's people, all men, would seek god. If perhaps they might grope for god and find him, though he's not far from each one of us. Now. This is, then, talking about the economical trinity, right, his relationship to creation, says explanation verse 28 in him we live and move and exist, as even some of your own poets have said and he quotes a couple guys here, for we are also are his children.
Speaker 2:How is it that people are always coming into contact with god? In him we live and move and have our being. How is it? And even that pagan poets like, reflected on reality and wrote poems that portrayed that idea. Because here's the thing Every time we experience love down here, right, or a concept of justice, where does it come from? Well, god is love, god is just. That is why we have these concepts and that is why people are always in contact with God, every time they move, every time they speak, every time they breathe, every time they move, every time they speak, every time they breathe, every time they think they are having an experience with god. I didn't write this, okay, I I couldn't have written this, but paul wrote this under inspiration, the spirit. He understood that everybody was always in contact with God. He says it's not far from each one of us, see, but in him we live and move and have our being, because God set the world up this way and he is totally inescapable.
Speaker 1:Thank you for joining us on Beyond the Walls with Jeremy Thomas. If you would like to see the visuals that went along with today's sermon, you can find those on Rumble and on YouTube under Spokane Bible Church. That is where Jeremy is the pastor and teacher. We hope you found today's lesson productive and useful in growing closer to God and walking more obediently with Him. If you found this podcast to be useful and helpful, then please consider rating us in your favorite podcast app, and until next time, we hope you have a blessed and wonderful day.