266 Express

Storytelling Through Guitar

• Co-hosted by John Noblitt and Donna Green

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A lot of musicians chase the spotlight. Victor Gann chased the work and it took him further than he expected, from a small-town start in Sanger, Texas to composing for major networks and stepping onto stages most players only see on TV.

We talk with Victor about the real mechanics of an instrumental guitar career: how mentorship and formal music education sharpen your ear, why a routine matters more than raw talent, and what it means to finish ideas even when you’re unsure they’re “good.” Victor breaks down how melody lines, chord changes, tempo, and modes carry emotion when there are no lyrics at all, and why that approach can hit listeners even harder than words.

You have been listening to The 266 Express, the official podcast of Sanger, TX.  IF you have comments or suggestions, please send them to dgreen@sangertexas.org

Welcome And Guest Introduction

SPEAKER_01

Welcome to the 266 Express. I'm John Novlet. Today's episode features someone many of you may recognize in more than one way, but we're kind of stepping into a different lane today with this conversation. Our guest is Victor Gann, an award-winning guitarist, producer, teacher, and composer whose music has reached beyond North Texas. With over two decades of experience, Victor has performed live on MTV, composed music for major networks such as ESPN and NASCAR, produced multiple acclaimed instrumental albums and taught thousands of students, many of whom have gone on to build their own successful musical careers. So from the studio to the stage, from teaching to composing, Victor's work is all about storytelling through sound. Every note intentional, every place deeply personal. And while Victor also serves our community in a civic role here in Sanger, today's conversation is going to focus a little bit on that musical journey, the influences, the creativity, the challenges, and the moments that have shaped the artist he is today. Welcome, Victor. Victoria.

SPEAKER_05

Well, thank you for having me. And maybe we should end the meeting right now because you've made me sound made me sound good.

SPEAKER_01

Well, you are good. We don't just make you sound good. I I tell you what, I've I've known you for a couple of years, and I know there are people around town that have known you a lot longer than just a couple. I wonder how many know how rich that history is.

SPEAKER_05

I don't know. I think a lot of them still think of that uh, you know, little punk kid that used to run around getting in trouble, and we don't know what to do with Gann. Yeah. You know, I think a lot of people still wonder what are we supposed to do with this guy?

First Guitar And Early Influences

SPEAKER_01

What are we gonna do with Gann today? Well, let's start at the beginning. When did you first pick up your guitar and what was the moment you realized music was gonna be more than just a hobby?

SPEAKER_05

Early on, uh, my uncle, Danny Blagg, he he wrote songs for people. He was in bands. Um, they used to always rehearse at my grandparents' house. I would go in there and watch it. I was just, you know, mesmerized by music. It was doing something to me that nothing else at that point had done. Um and anytime they would have a break or or something, I'd go grab his guitar and I'd immediately flip it over this way. I didn't know there's a difference between being left-handed and right-handed. It's just the way it felt comfortable. Yeah. And I remember so many times he would walk over, grab it, no, this way. And by the time he'd get back to where he was going, I already had it flipped back this way. My earliest memory of doing that is probably somewhere around six years old.

SPEAKER_00

Oh wow.

SPEAKER_05

You know, um, I would I I just loved it. Uh the sounds that came from that thing, well, this day I still love. You know, um, it wasn't a career idea at that point. I just knew it was something I really liked. And I liked to go on fast too. I really wanted to be a race car driver, but my last name's Gan. It's not Petty or Ernhardt or Andre. So I I didn't know how you get to that area. Um and then somewhere around nine years old, things really, really changed for me. And I knew a few what we call cowboy chords or open chords, things like that. I knew of country music and this band called the Beatles. I thought that was all that there was. And then one day I heard this this band called ACDC. I had never heard a guitar sound that way. I don't even know how I knew it was a guitar, but I knew it was, and it's like, that, whatever that is, that's what I want to do. So it just it just grew from there.

SPEAKER_01

That's nice. That's nice. So you that was way before most people get into music, right? When they're like, I'm gonna pick up some girls, but six, probably not on your mind. That that wasn't on my mind.

SPEAKER_05

And you know, even later on when I was around people, and you know, that that thought would go through your mind, I didn't know how those guys did it anyway.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05

You know, um, I'm just playing this thing. I don't know what happens. Plus, you know, you'd hear about all these people doing things, and you know what, there was a new Van Halen album that came out. I gotta learn this. That that's where that's where my mind was at.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah. So growing up in Sanger, you you make your return to hometown. Had how has that sense of place influenced music throughout your career?

SPEAKER_05

Oh, I I think greatly, because you know, um art is a reflection of of who you are and your environment, right?

SPEAKER_02

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_05

Other things you've been through, um, the people you know, circumstances. And I think it's greatly reflected in that. You know, as as for me personally, now I don't know if there's anything I can tell anybody that, oh, this song drew from that or whatever. But if I was from some other place or whatever, I'm sure it would have, well, maybe the song itself would be different. The way I would approach it may be different, or the influence behind it would would be different.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05

Yeah. So I I think it greatly influences me.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, for music, listening to music. We know that um we'll hear certain songs and they bring back memories or moments in time. So I imagine the creation of music is very much the same way that it's just a reflection of moments in time.

SPEAKER_05

Oh, it it it is. You know, some uh some strange things, you know, happen to you when you keep doing the same thing for a long time when you're just too stupid to quit, which you know that should be my motto. Um I have heard pieces of mine on major programs, and I've gotten emails and letters from people that um some athletes, some people in hospital even that you know, this song did something to me. And you just kind of sat back like, Man, I I wrote this in my studio and sang her. You know, that that's a that's a strange thought. Yeah, you know, I didn't have any idea that this was I mean, I was gonna put it out there, of course, but I don't sit there and think that, man, maybe this will touch somebody or something. I mean, I like it, hopefully you will too, or whoever's listening to it. But then when you get these things from all over the world, and it takes you back to that, you know, right off the square. I was sitting in my black chair behind my desk when that piece hit me.

SPEAKER_01

So you've studied formally and also learned from legendary guitarists. How did that combination of education and mentorship um shape your sound and your your discipline?

SPEAKER_05

Oh, greatly, still to this day. Um there are people, of course, you know, more naturally gifted. I found out early on, you know, my hands are average size at best. You know, I don't have big long Jimi Hendrix fingers. And plus the way my mind works, when I'd have an instructor give me something, I wanted to know, why can I do that? You know, why can't I do this? You know, and I remember a scale being thrown at me one time, and okay, Victor, here's the here's the scale. You can play those notes. Same things I've done with students. All right, well, why don't I hit this note? And I could hit it, and you could tell that this note is wrong. But why can't I play that one? So with the people I had around me and plus my own understanding, I knew I had to figure out how it worked. So I knew formal education was going to be it for me. Now, I didn't know I would make it in, but I did. And of course, now you're around guys that I grew up with them on my wall. Yeah, you know, most guys my age had cars and girls on their carwell, on on their wall. I I had guitar players. You know, and all of a sudden you're sitting in here in a room, you know, this close to Joe Satriani or or all these different people. And so especially since they had so many skins on the wall and and everything, you know, being so influential that you knew that these were the these are the guys. I was smart enough to pay attention.

unknown

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05

You know, it doesn't mean I got everything right or anything of of that nature, but okay, if I'm gonna listen to anybody, I better take these guys' advice. So you start to find out, or or I did, how important having a routine is and and being dedicated to it. Um it's to a certain degree, it's devotion in a in a very real sense, because you know, you're putting so much time to it. And me personally, I had tunnel vision for years. All all the noise around, maybe I knew it was there, I didn't pay it any attention. I knew where I wanted to get, and this was the way I had to get there. You know, I'm not a plan B guy. Um, if you come up with plan B, go ahead and go with plan B. Because to me, you've already told yourself plan A is not gonna work. And so I gotta do this or it's jail. Yeah. Because I'm gonna be a bank robber and I'm not gonna do any good at that, right? Um so yeah, they they have the guys that I was blessed enough to to be around um greatly influenced me. How how to listen to music, how to study it, how to apply it to your to your own, all of that.

SPEAKER_01

And I I and all those principles are are good for anything you're doing, right? Find find an expert in the field and lean on them where you can.

SPEAKER_05

I sure think so. Um I have in every aspect of my life, yeah, I I use many of those same principles. You know, same thing with city council, you know. Um I try to sit back and and and listen to all you guys talk because y'all know it a whole lot better than I do. And so many times it may seem like I'm uninterested. Oh, I'm not. I'm just pulling back, listening to everything, trying to put all the pieces together because okay, I've read through everything and I've come up with my own decisions, and maybe I've reached out to you or to somebody else. But now we've got everybody together, I can sit here and listen. And and you bet it's the it's the same principles. You try to put as much together as you can.

SPEAKER_01

Soak it in.

SPEAKER_05

I try to. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

No, I I mean, I I think that's uh a really nice way to approach things. You know, we've we've talked about that a lot, even on the podcast with different people that you know that you know kind of that mastery of one thing is mastery of all things, that if you know the steps to be successful, you can reapply those steps in other areas of your life to increase your capacity to succeed in those. And so, yeah, I mean, and that having a mentor is a huge part of that. Uh remember the old apprenticeship programs they used to have, and they still do, you know, like the electric here, we we run apprentices, but that whole deal of having that knowledge passed down, because like you said, not everything is is gonna be contained within a book or within just theory itself, because you know, we live in a world that has a lot of variables at the most inopportune moments in time sometimes.

SPEAKER_05

Constant. And you know, I was also blessed enough to be in this area. Well, there was a guy in this area, Andy Timmins. We we don't call him Andy Timmins anymore, we call him Andy F and Timmins. That's how good this guy is. Um, incredibly smart. He had already kind of charted the course for players that wanted to be serious. You know, he joined us, you know, he he was teaching lessons and didn't playing all the small clubs that are on Fry Street, and he wondered, how is this guy still here? Well, he then joined this band called Danger Danger that they ended up having two number ones. And oh, I want to make certain I say this the right way. Many of us were surprised when he took that gig. You know, um, and and he's a good looking fella, but he didn't seem like the dress up and and everything sort of guy. And I talked to him one day. I was like, man, why did you why did you join these guys? And he's like, Victor, he's like, if this works out, I can write every song I ever want to for the rest of my life. Point taken. You know, there there's multiple ways to get to the where I want to be, and there's multiple things I can do in this this world of music. It's not all rock star or bomb, which is what so many people think, right? And even I did for a period of time. Either you make it, or you know what, I'm gonna be homeless. You know, um, not realizing that, okay, you know what? Yeah, um, maybe the NFL does offer me a contract to to make music for or this or that or play on other people's albums and and things like that. You know, I I've told my students, give Rockstar the best shot you can, because I know many of them. And not once has a single one of them said to me, like, you know what, Victor, this life stinks. I I have not heard that. Um, so give it your best shot. I gave it my best shot. That part didn't work out. Um, but I was able to find a spot within all that to do everything.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, a lot of other opportunities to to succeed. To make a living.

Telling Stories Without Lyrics

SPEAKER_05

Yes, to make a living and kind of have a normal life. Yeah. You know, whereas, you know, a lot of those guys don't, but then again, you know, it's the pros and cons, right? Right. Right.

SPEAKER_01

So tell us a little bit about your music is is instrumental, primarily, correct? Correct. And then very emotional. How how do you tell a story without lyrics? How does that work for you? Well, it's partly how I hear music.

SPEAKER_05

I hear lyrics, of course, and in the songs. I can't tell you what they're saying. I pay attention to the melody line. That's what really hits me. You know, even, okay, I already mentioned ACDC, my favorite band ever. I don't know the lyrics to most of their songs, but I can tell you what Bon or Brian is singing as far as the melody line. So that is what has always struck me. Um, and okay, I brought up Satriani earlier. Whenever he bust out into the scene, his music really, really hit a chord with me. There were other people, you know, who would do instrumentals, you know, Eddie Van Halen with Eruption. Well, okay, I'm not that good. Um, and and other guys that were just doing this insane stuff that, okay, I don't I don't think that's me. And I'm not trying to say I'm as good as Satriani either. But his songs are songs. There's melody lines in them that he would grow and weave and build through everything, and okay, he'll build them to a point where okay, here's going to be a solo that you'll never be able to do, Victor. But okay, around it all were these melody lines that I heard and other songs and stuff, not that he was competing, but how a singer would sing. Right. That's what strikes me. Um, that's where I really hear emotion in songs, you know, in the melody lines and the chord changes. It's not in what the the actual words that the singer is singing. Um, I don't know if there's any song that really means anything to me from a lyrical standpoint. Because I don't really pay attention to them that much. And also I've written plenty of lyrical songs. How I mean it and how you may take it are probably going to be two completely different things. Which, you know, is neither good nor bad. Um but I have was uh blessed enough to get to a point to do what I wanted to do. And I was also challenged by my dad. You know, go go go make one of these little instrumental albums and see what happens. So I was kind of finally put on the spot. I'm like, okay, well we'll do it. I don't even know if I can do it. And it it was just very natural to me. You know, I I I know that's probably not answering your question, but that's how I hear music is through the melody and everything, through the words. I can tell through that, I think, what someone is trying to get across to me. You know, um, and then chord changes, key changes, all of these little tools, those are what speak to me. Not the not the words that the singer's singing. They may be incredible words. Um I'm not paying attention to them. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

But they did that for centuries, right? You know, when you like listen to classical music. Oh, yeah. And they're driving the rhythms, driving, the melodies driving, all that. There's not a lot of lyrics, but there's a lot of an emotion that that kind of invokes in us when we when we hear it.

SPEAKER_05

Oh, completely. You know, um music is really one of two things. It's major or it's minor. Yes, there's other stuff, you know, we can get diminished, augmented, all this stuff. But if if we take it all the way down, it's major or it's minor. Major's happy, minor's sad. Very simplistic, but it's true. Okay. So depending on what sort of song you're wanting to write, you're probably going to go off one of those two directions. Okay, now you start to think about things of tempo. You know, because different tempos are also conveying a different message. You know? Um I could get really into stuff about modes and things. Each mode in music has a different uh emotional quality. Um if I want to write the happiest of all happy songs, it's going to be based off the the first mode. It's major to major to major. You know, it's just reinforcing all that. Well, okay, from a from a scale standpoint where I would start building my melody lines, guess what I'm probably going to highlight? Major tones. So that already kind of puts certain emotions out of the way. Right. You know, you're you're already kind of limited. Um, well, okay, maybe I'm just feeling down today. Well, guess what I'm probably gonna do? I'm probably gonna highlight some minor tones over some minor chords. And if I'm feeling down, well, the tempo's probably gonna be slower too. So those are all things that go through my head.

Surreal Career Moments With Legends

SPEAKER_01

That's great. All good tools to have, which I wouldn't I would know nothing about. None of those tools. So you played live on MTV and worked across rock, metal, mainstream media. What was your first moment where you're like, somebody's got to pinch me? This could not really be happening right now.

SPEAKER_05

My first one, um, wow. There's been so many, but you know, one moment that really blew me away, I was still a student at school. Um it takes your average student to be accepted to music school out there three tries. Yeah. I got in on my first.

SPEAKER_01

And this was Berkeley?

SPEAKER_05

Uh GIT which was. Yes. Yeah. Then and good old Hollywood um got in. And you know, you're sitting there looking around, they only let a very small number in, or they used to things may have changed now. And all these guys are kicking my tail. You know, I'm I'm thinking I'm the last guy that they let in. Well, what I didn't know is everybody else was thinking I'm the last one that they let in, you know. And at school, it became very normal daily that you would see somebody because so many of your teachers are somebody. Um, but then these other people that just walk in to do a little class or whatever. Well, one day I was up on the third floor, and way in the back, the hallway was really, really crowded, more and more than normal. I'm just trying to get to class. But I can see this mass at the end of the hall that's moving towards me. And in the middle of this mass, there is this black hair that's really curly. Whoever this is is tall. And that kind of look that may be Brian May, guitar player for Queen. Which um most musicians would agree Brian May has never played a bad note. He is one of these guys that his solos fit the song almost perfectly. You know, you've probably heard songs that the song is great, then the solo comes in, you're like, what's going on there? And you've probably heard it the other way too, where you've heard these songs with Great solos, but then the rest of the song just seems to be a mess trying to get to that solo and out of that solo. Brian May's not on those. He's on ones where they just fit perfectly. You know, so a very rare player. Anyway, when that thought hits me, that man, that kind of looks like the top of Brian May's head. Sure enough, this mask keeps walking, and he walks right by me and looks at me, and it was like, oh my gosh. Brian May was just 12 inches from me, and I'm from a ranch in Sanger, Texas. Yeah, you know, like this, this is crazy. Um, so that that was one of the first moments that, okay, something, something different is happening here.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah. There is uh there is always, I guess, a moment, an aha moment somebody has in their career at some point that they go, oh yeah, I'm on the right path. So that was it for you, huh?

SPEAKER_05

That that was one of the first ones um that that popped in my head. But there there have been so many, you know. Um one of the coolest moments I ever had was I got to sit down and talk with Jimi Hendrix's dad.

SPEAKER_01

Oh, wow.

SPEAKER_05

For for a few minutes. And that was just incredible. Um, I got to jam with uh oh my goodness, I cannot think of his name right now. It's uh completely gone out of my head, but he was a keyboard player. Well, it wasn't keyboards, then it was piano for um Chuck Barry at times. Like, you know, guys that were there in the beginning that started this whole thing, you know. That was just so incredible.

SPEAKER_01

That's amazing to us, and for a lot of people, it's just like that was normal.

SPEAKER_05

It it gets to that point. Yeah, it it it really does, you know. But I think all of us too at the same time still kind of have that moment we're like, man, did that do I was I really hanging out with that person? I mean, heck, I got to hang out with Eddie Van Halen and and all of these different things. But you find out that they're just people.

Writing For ESPN NASCAR And Film

SPEAKER_01

Yeah. Yeah. So like finding out when actors were all the all the kids you knew in theater class, they're just they just made it. Yeah, but but they're they're just people. They're just theater kids. Yeah, yeah. So tell me a little bit about you. So you've scored for major networks and events like NASCAR and ESPN. Is there a difference in how you compose for film and television? Is that different from your your typical work, like when you're putting together an album?

SPEAKER_05

Yes. Um typically, you know, I'll start with commercials because those were some of the first ones I did when I got into that area. Well, very small time frame. You know, I'm we're not looking at three, four minutes here. We're looking at maybe 30 seconds. Well, there is one that is still being played today that I did way back when. Well, they they tell you, okay, we're a furniture company. Okay, that already starts to tell me something. I'm probably not gonna sit here and hit you over the head of a metallica riff.

SPEAKER_03

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_05

Okay, it's probably gonna be something a little bit subtle. Okay, it's probably gonna be major. I don't I don't want to want to take anybody too far down right. And this is just gonna be background sound, you know. So that right there is completely different than than doing a song. Um now I will say when I've done things for the NFL, NASCAR, all that sort of stuff, where it's high energy, those I usually finish the whole piece. I'll I'll make it into a song. Now, what they wish to do with it, if they only wish to use 10 seconds or whatever out of it, cool, so be it. The whole the whole piece is yours. Yeah. Do with it as you want, because I'm not gonna try to narrow that down to however long. It's just gonna be the whole piece. Films. I I did a film and it kicked my tail. I looked at it going in as just, you know, one big long commercial. Okay, easy. Done hundreds of those. Um, shouldn't be any problem. I would send something away, nope, not that. Send something away, nope, not that. Okay, and it was driving me crazy. What am I missing? And then I was finally told, because I it it wasn't I wasn't realizing this, think of the music as another character. Okay, I get it now. It was a thought that had never crossed my mind. I mean, thinking of the music in whatever scene as another person, if you will. And so, yeah, that's a completely different way of thinking as well. Because you know, with a song, I'm just trying to convey an overall thought. Um regardless of what it is, it's it I can boil it down to a single thought. Um a commercial, typically it's background, and I'm just trying to either add or grab your attention. Right? Kind of the same thing with with show pieces, very, very similar. Movie completely different. It it's it's a character. Yeah. It it plays a role in every scene it's in.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah. Oh that's that's good information because when you think about it, yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. You watching a horror, horror movie, and it's driving up that tension and that sustainability. Exactly. Yeah.

SPEAKER_05

And I I've when when she finally told me to view it that way, and and and this was the the director, I felt so well, I felt stupid, like, oh my goodness, I can't believe I didn't never even cross my mind. So yeah, that each one is just a little bit different. And when you come up with stuff too, I don't know how many pieces I've come up with now. Um I'll ask myself, okay, is this a song? Or is this something I should put over for this or for that possibly? You know? Um and that comes back to what emotionally it's telling me. Sometimes it's just a piece that yeah, it's just a piece I came up with, it's in key. I think it does something. All right, we're gonna protect it and see if anybody's interested in it.

SPEAKER_04

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05

But then there are other times that it may just be a few notes, and okay, that hit me. That one's for me.

Finish Every Idea And Protect It

SPEAKER_01

Yeah. The you know, I I have weird hobbies. Um Mike over there, I know he's got weird hobbies too. But you know, I like have a hard drive at my house just full of like just stuff, thoughts, ideas, pictures, you know, things that I've had that I will probably never go back and ever use, but I feel like I gotta have them for some some reason. Do you have like a stockpile of those things?

SPEAKER_05

I do. The only difference is I go ahead and and put them out there with my agencies.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_05

You know, so that when I say protected, it means that they're going through my BMI catalog and everything, then they automatically get pushed out to people to see if they wish to use them.

SPEAKER_01

There you go. So you're, I mean, that yeah, that is a huge difference because I'm some of that stuff is never going to see the light of day, period, ever. Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_05

But yeah, a lot of those pieces aren't. Yeah. You know, a lot of those pieces will never be picked up.

SPEAKER_04

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05

But okay, you know what? There is the off chance that maybe somebody wants that for something. It's better than it just being saved for me. Now, I do have tons of ideas saved more for myself that I haven't done anything with, you know. Um I've got this one part of a song. I know it's a song. I I know what this song is supposed to do in my head. Well, this riff is probably 20 years old. For whatever reason, I haven't been able to figure out how it goes from a certain point. Well, maybe I just haven't had the right experience or whatever, but I know that, okay, that part's for me, and this is a boogie song.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05

You know. Um, so I I have tons of those too, but those hopefully something will happen to them one day.

SPEAKER_01

Though and but those other items, those are all, and that's really good, that's a really good thought. Those are all opportunities. They're not just ideas, those are all opportunities.

SPEAKER_05

Of course. Well, that that is one thing I learned at school. Um, one of the best pieces of advice I ever got was from Flatriani. Any idea you have, finish it.

SPEAKER_04

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05

It took me a little while to really know what he meant by that. Well, I finish it. Maybe I don't like it. Okay, find out why. Maybe I do like it, find out why. And also, if the piece is finished, even though I may or may not like it, somebody else may. So, yeah, do something with them.

The Devil’s Been Busy Origin Story

SPEAKER_01

Nice, nice. So The Devil's Been Busy is still a standout project for many fans of yours. What was happening creatively or personally during that chapter in your life?

SPEAKER_05

A lot. Um well, also in music, there's this note. Depending on who you talk to, they may call it a tri-tone or a flatted fifth. To me, it's the devil's tone. You know, there was a period of time in Europe that if you played this that interval in public, you were going to be punished. Because you could only be doing one thing. You were summoning Satan.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05

What was the belief? And uh the first time I remember ever hearing that interval was a band called Black Sabbath. Their first album starts off with that, and it's as a little kid, 12 years old, 11 years old. Man, it scared me. So that has always been an interesting interval to me. One day I was just messing around with the uh the rift the crazy train. Both Aussie. I don't know if that ever hit me. Um because you know, you'll sit here and take pieces at time, like, okay, I know what he's doing. This is all F-sharp minor. And he's going, but what's he doing? And and you start messing around with it, then all of a sudden it's like, man, what if I kind of work this riff around, but I throw that flatted fifth in there? And all of a sudden I did. It's like, oh, okay, I'm liking this. That that works. Okay, well, let's take this, see where it goes. And so I had the bass of the song. I don't mean the bass instrument, but the the bass of the song itself, the different parts done pretty quick. Well, okay, I'm using I'm using that tritone. The song's got, and it's fast. Okay, so it's it's busy. It's got to have something to do with the devil. And now when I first did it, I didn't mean devil as in Satan. I was the devil.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05

And oh, you know, man, you sure are one busy little devil, aren't you? That was how it was first meant. Um, but everything that was going on at the time, you know, I had released an EP of just five songs, and each one was a little bit different, letting people know that, okay, I'm going to give this instrumental world a try. That thing blew up. Uh it sold a few hundred thousand copies, which just blew me away. People immediately, like, hey, when are y'all playing? I don't even have a band. Um, you know, that was nothing that was was on my radar. So dealing with all that, you know, now I'm becoming a dad. My business here is growing. You know, so I I was a busy guy. Yeah. But that's where that came from, and what that song's really about is just all the different things I was trying to keep up with at that point.

SPEAKER_01

That's great. So you collaborate with a lot of different musicians and producers. Um could and you know, we talk about collaboration a lot too, just just you know, in our our day-to-days, we've had conversations about collaboration, you know, with the council and things like that. Oh, definitely. Um what makes a collaboration uh in your business really work?

SPEAKER_05

Understanding what the other one is trying to say. Um, because if you have that, then you can really work together. Um makes no difference if it's writing a song or or producing. You know, um, I'll go into producing for a moment. Many producers, to me, are glorified engineers. Um, to me, what a real producer is, is an extra member of the band at that time. That should really take a listen to your songs. Because you know, writing a song, you can be so close to it that, man, I know this thing is eight minutes long, but people are gonna love it. It needs to be eight minutes long. Well, the producer's gonna sit there and like Victor. Um, I don't think this is an eight-minute-long song. If you if you want to go that route, okay, it's your call, it's never going to get played anywhere. Um I think if you take this section out, and maybe if you move this here to there or whatever, well, you you have somebody that that's understanding what your vision is. They're trying to add to it, they're a part of the team. I think that's collaboration.

SPEAKER_04

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05

You know, collaboration does not work if you have two people that are trying to go different directions, which okay, that goes into everything, right? Um, you know, like we were talking how the discipline from music can go into every other aspect of life. Well, I think it's the same thing of collaboration. And and and okay, there are times where maybe you have to rein the other person in, or maybe the other person has to knock you upside the head. No, this is where it needs to go. Okay, that's fine as long as you get to the same point. But it's just understanding what the other person is trying to say and and find your role in that.

SPEAKER_01

I think that's surprising that um we see from the outside looking in a lot, and music is one that we we we see it a lot, whether it's um whether it's um, you know, a rock and roll band or even a school band, right? There there's that point in time where it seems like maybe there's some type of chaos, but it's all really not. It's very controlled and well communicated in most cases. You know, when you think about all the bands you grew up with and that you like, that may be the one thing they have in common that, you know, even in perceived chaos, really tight group of individuals that that know, you know, what the boundaries are. I mean, it's not, it's not, you have a you have a very definitive task, right? You have a a front, a middle, and an end to what you're doing, and there's a pathway there to get there, but most of the people seem to understand the parameters you're working under together.

SPEAKER_05

Oh, you're you're you're completely correct. Um You know, you you can be individually as a band, oh, you can be a whole mess. But when you're trying to make that statement together, oh yeah, it it's much tighter, much more controlled than what the average person thinks.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05

You know, you mentioned Chaos, a couple of bands that come to mind. You know, um Guns N' Roses, their first album, Appetite for Destruction. These were guys that were living in a car, um, not doing the best things to their bodies at the time. I think that's all been well documented.

SPEAKER_02

Yep.

SPEAKER_05

Um, but that album is ferocious. That that first album is maybe one of the best first albums by anybody ever. So even though they had all this mess going on on the outside of their lives, when they came into that room, and okay, this goes with collaboration with their producer Mike Clink, he was able to, okay, guys, yeah, if this is what y'all are gonna do, go do it, I guess. But when we're in here, we got to get this project working. And they were able to do it. You know, another one. Um, Sex Pistols. Okay, they those guys were crazy. Well, they only did one album because they only had to do one album.

SPEAKER_04

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05

You know, they're still living the day off of that thing because kind of the same thing. That album is Controlled Fury. Those guys were incredibly upset at the world. And okay, you can do some research to see what their environment was and find out why. But when they came into the room to record those songs, same thing. They were able to all focus in onto that. So, yeah, it takes a it takes a lot more than what the average person thinks is going on.

Recognition Community And Resilience

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, a lot of a lot of moving parts. So uh you've also been recognized by National Publications and have won multiple awards. Um, which acknowledgement has meant the most to you and why?

SPEAKER_05

You know what's funny? Um the acknowledgement that means the most to me is nothing that I've received from music. Um a few years ago, I was named one of the citizens of the year. Not that I think I'm the best person in town. I don't think I was the best person in town that year. Uh, you know, since COVID, I think most people know when we got shut down. Life is not the same for me that it was. Um it has gone through many, many different turn turns and everything. Um but man, that one, even thinking about it, uh kind of breaks me up a little bit because the that just meant a ton to me. Still does, because to me, that was people in the community saying, Hey, we understand, but you mean something to us.

SPEAKER_04

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05

You know, that's the reason you you were there. I couldn't even speak whenever Kelsey handed me the thing. Um later I kind of felt bad, like, man, I didn't even say a word. Well, I I I was too overcome, you know. Because you I don't know about other people, but I don't really think that people see or understand the things that I've been through. Because okay, we all got stuff, right? Um, and and that's life. It's it's up and downs. You know, sometimes I'm really up. And man, things have been great. You know, I had a 20-year plan that I had reached years earlier. Life was about to be awesome. And I'd even come home one night and told Shannon, my wife, that man, life is about to get very, very good. You know, I had missed softball seasons, basketball seasons, dance seasons, but I was trying to build something, you know, justification. I'd finally gotten to the point and beyond uh I'm not gonna have to miss anything anymore. Right. Well then the world came crashing.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05

You know, um, so that that that is why that one meant so much to me. From a musical from those awards, this one wasn't really an award. Um, it was after I you know what, we had put the devil's been busy out, had started playing some shows, and a writer for the Dallas News, was it still called the Dallas Morning News then, maybe, um, somehow or another heard about me. And Dallas at that time was very much of a uh pop punk scene going on.

SPEAKER_01

Dallas had a pretty good music scene that not a lot of people talk about, but there was a period of time where Dallas was very well recognized.

SPEAKER_05

Now back in the 80s, yeah. Oh, we I I could do a whole nother show uh about all of that. Um but yeah, Dallas has always pretty much had a healthy scene. And at this time, that's where everything was kind of going.

SPEAKER_04

Right.

SPEAKER_05

Here I am playing this instrumental stuff. Um, I don't know if people are gonna get it, and I don't know if people are gonna like it or or anything. Does it even translate live? Right. Um this guy said this is one of the four acts in DFW, you've got to see. It's like, wow. Okay. The average person's not gonna know who I am or or anything like that. But for him to go out of his way and say, you know what, y'all need to catch this guy if you can't. Okay, maybe, maybe, maybe I'm doing something. You know. Um, like I said, that one wasn't really an award. Awards to me are just um I'm thankful for all of them, I'm blessed for all of them. Um Don't really put a whole lot of stock into them. I'm not trying to discredit them or or anything. I mean, yeah, it's nice to that I've been that I've won all those those those awards. Um but I want the next one.

SPEAKER_04

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05

I want the next thing. You know, I I don't want to always go around like, well, yeah, you won that 10 years ago. What have you done since then? Yep. So they're nice, but they don't mean a ton to me.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah. Yeah. You you move it move it on.

SPEAKER_05

Yeah, what what's the next thing? Yeah. You know, I mean, thank you. And plus, you know, awards like that are so uh I I don't know what the proper word is. Um you're no matter what, and this is something I learned years ago at shows. Don't believe all the hype. At every show, there's gonna be two people. There's gonna be the person that says that you are the best thing that they have ever seen. Well, don't believe them. The other person that's also at every show that you're gonna play, they're gonna tell you you are the worst thing they've ever seen. Don't believe them. The answer's somewhere in the middle. Well, it's kind of the same thing with awards. You know, I some people somewhere said that, hey, this is worth something, but but at the same time, there's other people that you know that, man, I don't get it.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05

Like, oh, okay, so I don't know.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, you you'll just keep making music.

SPEAKER_05

Uh hopefully.

Teaching Philosophy And Student Growth

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, that's the plan. So let's talk about, so we uh let's talk about the the uh the teaching portion now. So you you know, you you go out, you you have you know success in your industry, but one of the biggest parts of your legacy, I think, and everybody would agree, is uh as a as a teacher. Uh and it's a huge part of what you do. When you look back at the students you've worked with, uh, what are you most proud of working with the future of your industry?

SPEAKER_05

That's so many of them. I mean, okay, that so many great people. That that's the first thing that, you know, I've been blessed by the students I've had. Um, you know, one of the reasons I try to help any place I can, because you know, this this area, Sanger, has been very good to an oddball like me, you know. Um but so many of the of these guys, they're just great people, number one. And I didn't get in their way too bad because so many of them are still pursuing music, they're still asking us questions, still getting getting better. You know, um that to me is the big win. That since I didn't stomp them, then I must have helped them. Yeah. You know, because to me, it's it's kind of a weird thing to ask yourself, like, man, what do I mean to that person? I don't know. I can't answer that question, right? You know, or or how did I influence or impact that person? If it's something negative, you know it, right? Right. But being a a teacher, and I think this also kind of goes in with being on counsel to a certain degree, how often do we really know that we're doing the right thing? We know when we're told it's the wrong thing. And and those usually become pretty obvious pretty fast. Right. Well, it's the same way of teaching. Um so if I'm able to take a step back and look that you know what, these guys are still going, they're still doing something, man. Okay, I must have helped them. Right. So that that that's the the biggest thing for me.

SPEAKER_01

Is there a core lesson or a core tenet that you like to give to your students? Is there is there one one piece of life advice or anything that you have when they're going through that system there that you try to impart?

SPEAKER_05

Depending on where they're at, yes. Um it goes back to the major-minor thing.

SPEAKER_01

Right.

SPEAKER_05

You know, if they're ones that you know, some some of the students they just want to play the latest song by whoever. That's awesome. That's great. We're gonna do it just like them. You know. Um now with those, the the big thing that you gotta get through is technique and discipline. But then with the other ones, who wants to say something okay, the the big the big lesson we'll have, it's a word I used earlier, is about modes. Each there's seven different modes of music, each mode has a different emotive quality. So, okay, if you're feeling happy, sad, whatever, let's start uh exploring these different modes. Yeah, because to me that that really helps you get in uh get in touch with trying to write something that's impactful. You can write a song, a great song, that you don't know any of this stuff. Okay, go write great song number two. It may not happen, but if you know how music works, okay, you got a much better shot of getting out what it is that you want to say.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, it's like handing a writer a dictionary.

SPEAKER_05

Yes.

Technology Changed Music For Better

SPEAKER_01

Yeah. Just kind of here, here's a tool that's very important to you if you have something to say. You got it. I love it. I love it. You've seen a lot of changes in the industry over the past 20 years. What uh what do you think is harder today in the business than it was in the past? And what do you think is easier?

SPEAKER_05

Getting paid is the is harder. Uh-huh. You know, um music, and I don't think it's just music, I think it's art of any realm, um, the written word, um, photography, music, um, it's been devalued greatly. Um, you know, we we live in an age where everybody's now a photographer. You know, because even my however many year-old phone I have, um, the camera in it can probably do incredible things. You know, and with tools and and everything that people can use, well, yeah, everybody can be a photographer. Doesn't mean they are. Right. Well, the same thing has happened to music. Um and and it I'm gonna sound like you know, the get off my yard guy for a moment. Um but computers have become so powerful, and some of the software out there, which is great, great stuff out there. It can and has been used to make number one songs for people who can't play. So music has been completely devalued. Um that is much harder now to to make a living for a new band as it was opposed to the 80s, 90s, even where people actually bought the physical product. Um, and we're always going to make a physical product. As musicians, the album, the CD, whatever it is, is the only thing that I can hand you that shows you, look, I've been working, I worked really hard on something. Otherwise, it's just out there in the ether, right? Yeah, you know, you somebody can just download it within, you know, a minute and have it, which is great. Um well, I don't get as much off of that.

SPEAKER_00

Right.

SPEAKER_05

And we make albums. We and they had they contain singles, but we make an album that has those singles in it. Whereas now everything is going just to be in singles and forget the album. Oh well then that all has to do with the way the consumer consumes. You got it the way they're taking the product now. So that has a long line of effects with it. You know, you hear people talk about, man, I can't believe it cost 500 bucks to go see whoever. Ticket prices are getting crazy. Can't believe these these artists want to be paid so much. Uh they just want to be paid. You know, since their physical product isn't being bought anymore, uh, I'm sure you still expect the same show, if not better, that you saw 10 years ago. They know that too. So they've still got to put as much money, if not more, into their show. Well, their product's not selling anymore. Everybody may be listening to it, but nobody's actually buying that album. So that's where that reflects. You know, yeah, of course merchandise and ticket prices are going to go up because they have to offset that cost someplace. Right. That even goes into the the clubs now, you know. Whereas when I first started playing, especially club scene out in LA and even in Dallas, clubs had their own audience. That's not the way clubs work anymore. They want you to go ahead and bring your audience into them. How are you supposed to have an audience if you haven't already played?

SPEAKER_00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05

You know, it's this really weird, weird thing. So that's gotten a whole lot tougher. Now, what has gotten easier and I think even better to a point is you know what, we can get our product out to everybody.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05

Really easy. And I'm I'm going to contradict myself a little bit, but anybody can put something out because making music is expensive. You know, to go buy instruments, to put in all the time, regardless if you took lessons or not. Um then by the time you get uh the equipment to where you can record something, and then do all this other, it's expensive. So with some of the software now that people have available, there have been some that they didn't have access to all this stuff. Um so it does make it easier for them, and I do think that that's better.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05

So it's this really weird double-edged sword here because it all comes down to technology. It it's there are some great things in it, but there are some are some very horrible adverse effects of it as well.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, no, I would agree. Yeah, and I mean you you you're you're right. Making music has always been difficult, right? You used to have to go, you know, you rent studio time, right? Oh, yeah. And you hope you have a band so that you don't have to pay studio musicians to fill, you know, because that's all gonna be added to your bottom line, right? Yes. And then, you know, if you're lucky, maybe, maybe you've signed a deal, maybe you've got some AR representation from a company or whatever, but again, that limits the playing fill. And then, like you say, then technology changes. Even this podcast, right? We're doing a podcast in one of the rooms at City Hall. You could do this before, right? You'd have to go down to the radio station, you know, because they're the only people that had all the equipment necessary to do that. So I can see where that um where that would be a double-edged sword. You're right.

SPEAKER_05

It is, you know. Well, even okay, you bring up this podcast. I imagine everything's probably digital. When I first started recording, we recorded straight to tape.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, reel to reels.

SPEAKER_05

Yes. Yeah. So you better be good.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05

Because if you made a mistake on tape.

SPEAKER_01

It's there forever.

SPEAKER_05

Yes.

Building The Bolivar Songwriter Festival

SPEAKER_01

It's there forever. Yeah. I remember I worked at a radio station for a while. I remember the old cart tape, same thing, right? You did the erasing them and putting commercials over the top of them so that you can physically put them in there. The technology, you're right, the advancement in technology has some incredible effects, but it also does change the dynamics of the rest of the playing field. Oh, greatly. So switching gears again, let's talk about the old Bolivar Station Songwriter Festival. You were instrumental in helping us get that off the ground. What drew you to the idea of that in the first place? And uh and why does that project matter to you?

SPEAKER_05

Well, okay, I'm going to give kudos to Donna and to you on this. Yeah. Because y'all y'all came to me. It it wasn't my idea. Um now when it was I heard about it, I thought it was a great idea, but it it wasn't my idea. And as soon as it came up, yeah, you bet I'll I'll I'll be involved because that that's my world. You know. Um, I have contacts. There are people in this area because, okay, North Texas, we're close to Dallas and everything. There's there's lots of talent here. A lot of it. And I'm a fan of being able to try to find a vehicle for people to get their music out there. You know, it comes back to that whole thing where people expect you to already have your own crowd now. That's not really uh that's not really going to happen. But okay, a festival where if people start to notice that this is what singers doing every year, um, and so far we've done it, what, three years? Three years. I think each year has been better than the previous year, at least from the talent aspect, I sure have seen that, which is to to be expected. Well, that tells me that people are looking forward to it, and they start to know that, okay, this is something. That that to me is is what makes me feel good about it, is that that you are starting to see that to be something for people to reach out to.

SPEAKER_01

So there's a there's a lot of um because we feel the same way, right? The that um that those opportunities, like you say, unless you've got a million followers on YouTube now or your Instagrams or your whatever's you you typically aren't going to get exposure without getting exposure with, like we say here, a festival. You know, a group of people, you're hoping to grab some of their following. You bet as part of your following long-term people looking for artists that are common to artists they already like sometimes the people that show up. Um but for us, whenever we originally proposed that, I think it was the uh the storytelling aspect of songwriting, you know, it's a little different than we thought at the time, it's a little different than just a music festival. Oh, yeah. You know, can you focus on the on the storytelling? How does that align with your journey as a musician and as a teacher?

SPEAKER_05

Well, I I think it goes right in line with it. Yeah. Um, and how I think that the more that you get into anything, and okay, my thing has been music, you want to be able to say what you want to say as quickly as possible. You know, okay, maybe, maybe I did write cashmere. You know, how many 10-minute long songs are out there that people know?

SPEAKER_01

Right.

SPEAKER_05

You know, so when I say quick, I just mean, okay, in music, three to four minutes. That that's our sweet spot. Because that's what the average listener will listen to. Once you go past really, once you go past three and a half minutes now, you're really starting to ask a whole lot of the of the listener. Under three, okay, they they're not gonna grab your attention. You won't have it as long. So when I say as fast as possible, that's what I mean. I'm I'm always looking at things within that three to four minute range.

SPEAKER_01

Right.

SPEAKER_05

Uh you know, Tom Petty, one of his quotes, don't bore us, get to the chorus. Give me, tell me what you gotta say. You know, I want to see it as concise as possible, as uniform as possible. That doesn't mean that the song can't be unique, because a lot of people will take that to being formulaic. No, I don't mean that at all. And then I could even take that further if if if you want, every song is formulaic because you want people to listen to it, right? You know, otherwise you just have a mess. Right. So I just think as you get better, you are already striving to do those things anyway. As as a me as an artist, that that's what I'm trying to do. Well, I'm part of that world. These are kind of my people, if you will. And since I'm able to bring in some people, some of my buddies to critique, they can tell that okay, it's not just Victor telling me this, it's other people into business. And you know what? They're listening.

SPEAKER_01

So in the in five years, you know, where where do you think you what would you like to see with the festival?

SPEAKER_05

Oh man, I would love to see it uh be a benchmark event for this area, uh, of course. I mean, I want to see Sanger get the benefit out of it. Um but how cool would it be? And we're already kind of seeing some of it, people from other states, from the opposite end of the country coming here. Well, how cool would it be if people every year started making their plans as as an artist around that festival?

SPEAKER_00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05

You know, like, okay, it's coming up, I got to have something ready.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05

Instead of just like, oh man, here's another one I can apply to. You know, it's two different ways of thought. If it's just one that they find out they can apply to, sure they may already have something for it, and they may be awesome. I'm not trying to knock any of that.

SPEAKER_04

Right.

Redefining Success As Service

SPEAKER_05

But if it became something that was already on their map a year before that they're striving to get to, to me, that's success.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, that's good. Speaking of success, how how how does or really what does success mean to you now, maybe compared to earlier in your career?

SPEAKER_05

Oh success has never been about money to me, unfortunately. Um I mean, you can have money and be successful, and you can be successful without money. You know, um, what is success to me? Am I a value to you? Have have I helped you? Um that to me is is what success is. Um you have to put yourself out there, care about people, care about things that are going on. Of course, there's gonna be times that you don't agree, you see things differently. Maybe you sit there and call each other names and and throw punches or whatever. All right, cool, work that all out. Doesn't mean you hate each other.

SPEAKER_04

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05

You know, you're you're you're still in this together regardless if you see it or not, right? Um have an impact on people. Um Councilman Bilieu, years ago, I actually had an issue with the city. This was years before I was involved in anything. Um he took it upon himself to to talk to me about it. And as he's walking out the door, he's like, Victor, get involved. Be a giver, not a taker. You know I'm right. And then he closed the door and it's like Yep, he was right. That's he was 100% right. Stuff I knew already, but I really it wasn't at the the forefront of everything. So so to me that's what success is. Yeah, I mean it if you can if you can help people along the way, I think that's what you're supposed to do. Have an impact on as many lives as you can. You know, all the other stuff, don't get me wrong, it's nice, you know, um, but it's fluff. I mean, I I drive a 26-year-old truck. It'd be cool to have a six-month-old truck, but it it's it's really just fluff, right?

SPEAKER_04

Right.

SPEAKER_05

It it just maybe it's got some new buttons and maybe it's a little bit shiner, but you know what? That one still gets me around. Still doing what it needs to do. Um so what are the things that matter? It's gonna rust just like a brand new one is one day. It's gonna be in some, you know, salvajar just like a brand new one is gonna be one day. Um but if I'm able to uh affect your life hopefully positive, maybe something from me goes through you to another person. And maybe that goes from another person to another person. That to me is is success. I don't do that I don't know the exact word of it. Um it's just how many people you affect.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah. Yeah. And there is a ripple effect to everything we do.

SPEAKER_05

Oh, completely. Completely. You know, um even to people that just I guess maybe they get trapped by life. You know what I what I mean by that is they get into their their routine and that's it. You know, I work, I go home, this is what I do. You know, everything else around I don't see. And I'm not trying to knock them any. Um they're still having an effect on everything else around them. Yeah. You know, so if I can help somebody along the way, hopefully be hopefully be an asset instead of a liability.

What’s Next And Where To Listen

SPEAKER_01

Yeah. I think that's a good wish for everybody. That's a good one. So finally, what's what's next for you, Victor? What should listeners be watching or listening for in the next chapter?

SPEAKER_05

You know, if you would have asked me that question six months ago, I would have told you from a music standpoint nothing. Um I had written that part of my life off. I mean, I still was going to keep the business open and be as involved as I could be. Um, but as far as creating music and and things of that nature, well, you know, I'd mentioned the shutdown earlier. After we can came back because you know we we only s stopped for a little bit. That that that's a story in to itself. Some of the the things I went through with all that. Um well the people didn't come back. So I I had to make a decision. And the numbers told me what that decision was. That's okay. It's time for me to go do something else and let let y'all take over. Um but within the past probably six months, there have been a few things that have happened, and one thing that has been tossed around is another film with somebody who I've always wanted to uh another local person, but somebody who I thought would always be cool to do a project with. So I think there may be an another project or two coming. Now, how soon that is, I don't know, but I'm now back playing, trying to get my chops back up, which that that's been a journey all on its own. Um frustrating and terrible, terribly frustrating, at times very uh ego busting, you know, uh, because I wrote that song, I should be able to play it. Right. Um, but it's been a few years since I've messed with that. So to get my fingers to go back to what they were doing and everything. Well, I think it's then it's the nature of the the beast that once you start doing that, ideas start coming to you again, and all of a sudden you start to find out that I don't hate music, I love it. Because I try to convince myself for a period of time I did. That was the only way I could really step away and still be somewhat sane. Right. You know. Um so like I said, uh how soon all of this happens, I don't know, but I do think there probably are some things coming up.

SPEAKER_01

A little more gas in the tank.

SPEAKER_05

I didn't I'm I'm not empty yet. I I thought I was, but I yeah, I guess I just shook it right.

SPEAKER_01

Well, Victor, where did they find you? If people are looking for you or they want to listen to some of your music, where where do they go?

SPEAKER_05

Oh, if you if you have any of the apps, uh, you know, like uh what is it? The the green one. Spotify, I'm on that. I'm on Apple Music, I'm on YouTube. Any of those that you're gonna find, I'm I'm on. Um I'm I'm everywhere in that regard. Um you can always visit victorgan.com, which now just really directs you towards the music school of Via Music. Um and if you're looking for me personally, um I'm I'm pretty easy to find. You can find me at City Hall or or or maybe church or the studio.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, somewhere. Yeah. Somewhere.

Thanks And Episode Closing

SPEAKER_05

I'm I'm usually within a a few mile radius.

SPEAKER_01

Well, Victor, thank you for coming in today. It's been great. I'm I'm glad to hear this part of you because you know most of our business is done at City Hall. Um, but I tell you what, you've got a you got a great story and have always been a great contribute contributor to the community um at all levels. And I I for one appreciate it. So thank you for being here.

SPEAKER_05

Well, well, thank you very much for having me and and make me feel like uh I've done something. So thank you.

SPEAKER_01

Well, you've been listening to the 266 Express. I'm John Noblet. Thanks for listening in to what's been going on in our small little North Texas town.