Poirot Pals
Join hosts Caitlin Morris and Chad Lind as they endeavor to read, research, and discuss all thirty-three Hercule Poirot mystery novels.
To get the most out of this audio book club, listen to the pre-read episodes before you read each book. Then, process your thoughts with Chad and Caitlin during each debrief episode.
Join us as we read in real-time, or listen and read at your leisure.
Poirot Pals
Debrief: The Murder Of Roger Ackroyd (Chapters 9-12)
WATCH OUT FOR SPOILERS! THEY'RE EVERYWHERE!!!
Join Caitlin and Chad as they giddily discuss chapters 9-12 of Agatha Christie's The Murder Of Roger Ackroyd.
Theme Music: The Black Cat by Aaron Kenny.
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I'm gonna say it things are about to get fishy because we're going to a goldfish pond. This, this is Poor Pal's Murder of Roger Ackroyd, the Gift that Keeps Giving. We're on chapter nine. When we were like planning this episode, we were having this dilemma and I think I would rather just talk about it than try to like balance it quietly on our own. There's a lot that happens ahead and in one way it's important because it's a plot, but, as you had said, in another way none of it matters.
Chad:You know, I'm going to use a term now that I have maybe used once in my life before, but I'm going to say it as if I use it all the time. But, caitlin, I kind of think to go through every little plot point that is a red herring is. I mean it's kind of a fool's errand and it does feel yeah. So that was the term that I never used, but it popped into my mind. It did it sound like I use it all the time?
Caitlin:it did okay, good yeah, but also like I don't want to be a fool no, and I hate errands, so this is perfect one of the most formative moments I had in elementary school was when this kid, who now is like very good friends with a couple of my best friends he turned to me and he was like you are a fool. I was like I know. And I was like, oh my God, wow, I need to reevaluate my life. I had never spoke to this kid before. It could have been anyone next to him. I just think he really wanted to say that to someone. But I was that person and that has shaped my entire life.
Chad:I can totally understand that, because, first of all, who uses that word at that age?
Caitlin:He must have heard it somewhere.
Chad:It must have been that, and obviously you're not a fool. Thank you that. And yeah, and obviously you're not a fool, thank you. I would definitely say that if that had happened to me, I would also be like I don't want to hear that word yeah, like I can never, I can never associate myself with anything that is foolish.
Caitlin:Um, but, yeah, but like I don't remember a lot about elementary school, but I certainly remember that, but we do want to have another F word, which is fun, I guess. So we're just really trying to balance some things out here.
Chad:In the previous episodes I'd written skeletal synopses of these. Now I've written, I've gone a little bit further with them. So tell me and be honest, caitlin, just tell me Chad, yay or nay? Just definitely like no, chad, I don't like it.
Caitlin:Rethink the choice that you made, Chad.
Chad:Rethink Chad, chad, you're a fool, you're a fool, you are a fool.
Caitlin:Okay, I'm so excited. Tell us what the Goldfish Pond is about.
Chad:Chapter 9, caitlin, the goldfish pond. Dr Shepard and Perrault have a walk around the Fernley estate. An eavesdrop on Flora and Blunt. Flora is thrilled that her uncle left her 20,000 pounds in his will. Flora and Blunt continue their flirty conversation. Then Perrault makes his presence known. Flora recalls that the dagger was missing from the curio cage before dinner. Perrault fishes a gold ring from the goldfish pond. It's a women's wedding ring. There is an inscription on it From R March 13th.
Caitlin:Ooh, I think that was great. I'm going to say yay.
Chad:You're going to say yay, okay.
Caitlin:Oh, my God, you know what I was like. Wow, I'm having the craziest sense of deja vu right now. You know why? Because we've recorded this episode before. Yeah.
Chad:This is the second time for us.
Caitlin:Yeah, we had some sound issues.
Chad:Yeah.
Caitlin:Whew, okay, yeah, okay yeah. It's just like wow. You know you have these powerful senses of deja vu in your life sometimes, but we're also in terms of being somewhere that we've been before. I have to say this is another magical wilderness moment. Yes, absolutely. In a book I might harp on it. I just talked about it in the Halloween episode there is something about nature and her characters. It's never like a group, it's always like one or two people having a meeting or overseeing something. And the woods are these potent times where she does make a ton of references to mythology. I don't know if she's intentionally doing it or the woods draws this out of her, but this is our moment to be in the trees.
Chad:Yep To be amongst the creatures.
Caitlin:Yeah and to have revelations. So things we want to like slow down with. And I bring this up because this is one of the first times I feel like where Poirot is like wait, what did you say to Shepard? This is the first time that Poirot is like, well, hey, who gets all of Ackroyd's money? Like this is really important. And Shepard kind of says, as an aside, he's like, oh my God, I should have thought of that. We can interpret that a couple ways. He's like an innocent investigator, or he's trying to frame his friend and he's like, wow, I could have really used that when I was making the case against Ralph. And so Poro is like why hadn't you thought about that before? Poro starts to really question him and then he says, even if you told me what you meant by that, I know you wouldn't be telling me the truth.
Chad:What happens there is that, as you said, we're meant to believe that when Poirot says, even if you were to tell me something I don't believe would be the truth, that that's how defensive of Ralph Dr Shepard is.
Caitlin:Yeah, thanks for putting that in perspective.
Chad:But then we have the great thing that we learned just throughout these chapters, which was that Poirot doesn't think Ralph did it.
Caitlin:And where does that?
Chad:leave Dr Shepard yeah.
Caitlin:Yeah, and that becomes clearer and clearer and clearer. And Shepard to kind of retort that he's like everyone has something to hide, which is kind of like a mystery cliche. Um christy is baiting us or encouraging us to remember that shepherd he knows a lot about murder mysteries and he like kind of brags at some times about his knowledge of it. So he responds with this cliche, which then Poirot is going to actually accuse everyone pretty soon of everybody having something to hide. And that is kind of the nonsense of the next couple of chapters is winding us up with all of this subterfuge, then deflating it all and us realizing like, oh, none of this matters, which, as I reflect on it, for like the millionth time we've talked about, this part of me does feel a little betrayed by that, like I wish that it mattered more.
Caitlin:But she's also like doing so many brilliant things that I can't be like I really wish that you had like made these choices, because that doesn't even matter. The big reveal is like that's what's going to shock readers around the world. It's almost like yeah, don't worry about this over here, but I do wish that this was going somewhere. Some of it is just as we said it's fun. You can like, luxuriate in all of her witticisms and the ways that she weaves in all these hints. So in some ways it's like it's like a fun dance, you know before you get to the like main act, I guess, or something like that.
Caitlin:Also, this is where Poirot warns Shepard, talking about things that are just kind of fun. He says it's not easy to hide things from Hercule Poirot. He has a knack of finding out. This is a turning point in the novel and I actually think, structurally, this chapter does matter because of that, because so far Shepard is the constructor. He's the one who's creating the illusions, he's the one that is doing the obscuring, and now Poirot is the one who is crafting all the subterfuge and, like the way I could think about it, it's like pumped for murderers. He's crafting all these moments where he's looking to see how Shepard reacts and he's luring Shepard in by being like would you please do this for me? Would you please be the Hastings to my Poirot?
Chad:This is really the perfect example of this. First time you read this book when you finish the line. But it's not easy to hide things from Hercule Poirot. He has a knack of finding out. You're like, yes, he does, because we've read the other books, we've read some of the short stories and he absolutely has a knack of finding out. That's why we're reading the book Way to go.
Chad:And the second time you read it you're like oh, he did find out and he's like oh this is so interesting, but now, when we're talking about it, the other layer is that if you've read this thing enough, or are just smarter than I am and picked it up more quickly is that Shepard doesn't realize what Perrault is saying and that Perrault is starting to become suspicious of him at the time of writing this particular part of the book.
Caitlin:And it's interesting because then there's also this other layer, and I do think there is a warning in Perrault's words, but it's more like I know that you're hiding him, you know we get this again. Sense that Shepard is this great protector, right, so we can read it that way too, okay, so one of the first little experiments he does is he's like oh, shepard, let's go, let's go on a walk, let's go into the woods, let's go to this goldfish pond, and they like sit on a bench for a moment and it can be seen as very charming. And again, like, we have all these wonderful cozy thoughts of like Paro and Hastings, Like Paro will like sit on Hastings' bed and they'll talk about, like what are your theories? I think I know where we're going in this pattern. But also this is a really interesting moment if we do look at it in a more sinister way.
Caitlin:I wonder if there's this lore too, speaking of like fishing, fishing for knowledge. I wonder if he's like is shepherd gonna try to kill me? Yeah, I wonder if there is again to do like the fish bait thing. But like I wonder if he's also like baiting him. How committed is this man to his subterfuge? Let me put myself in a bit of a.
Chad:Let's just say that the book is very, very different and Shepard kills Perrault as they're walking past the goldfish pond. He's going to be caught right.
Caitlin:Yeah.
Chad:Perrault does not put himself in a lot of situations where he and Shepard are alone in a room together.
Caitlin:Yeah, that's very true, they're always with somebody else yeah, like safety in numbers.
Caitlin:There is this scene and I don't want to give too much away where they are alone again, and it is a little scary, like I do, even though I'm like I know there are one million more poro books but like I did get a little nervous for him. I was like are you okay? Like you are alone with this murderer, and like the mask is off. But he says I trust your intelligence, you are smart enough to know that killing me is a really bad idea and I do wonder if we get like a hint of that here. All of this is subtext, like none of this is written in the scene. But you have to, I don't know. Yeah, you have to wonder, like what the dynamic really is and where the choices come from. Let's get to something a little bit more peppy. We have Flora and she is just like skipping.
Chad:Is Flora in what you would call morning clothes.
Caitlin:Yeah, I think at that time you're just supposed to like wear black.
Chad:Yeah, which is no cause, I hadn't even thought about that.
Caitlin:And to see like her being the way she is with blunts is so great, yeah, and we get this really awkward flirtation that you had mentioned in your summary. She calls him Methuselah, which is a biblical reference to a man who lived to be 969 years old. So she's like you're really handsome, but you're actually super old too.
Chad:Yeah, that's like centuries older than a silver fox.
Caitlin:Yeah, like you're next level. Then the only thing that's odd, kind of like out of this flirtation too, and it's interesting, he, he like mixes it up blonde, think she's talking about faust, and he says some of us would sell our soul to the devil if we could. So he's truly just bumbling, but we can take that as like, oh, should we be suspicious of him? This is where it kind of is this like I almost think of it as like machine gun suspicions and we get that a lot. We're like everybody just looks sketchy. But we know that Dr Shepard did kind of sell his soul and his morality for a ton of money. I did just want to mention that she always describes Blunt as looking off into the distance because he's like a hunter. So it's like he's shy. He doesn't want to talk directly to Flora because he's scared of women or hates women. Yeah, they said he hates women. Not much has changed. Today there are plenty of Blunts in the world.
Chad:Can you imagine? Let's just for one second, if I can.
Caitlin:You can.
Chad:Let's put you and I where Perot and Dr Shepard are, the co-hosts of Perot Pals, walking around the Fernley estate, could you imagine seeing Flora, all gay and happy but dressed in black? And then we hear references to Methuselah and Faust.
Caitlin:What is going on. It's also kind of like a weird goth zone where everyone is really dark. Actually, everybody lets their goth flags fly in the forest. It's weird. It's one of my favorite chapters of the book, to be honest Absolutely. We learn that Flora's really happy despite the murder, because she makes a lot of money. We learn that she inherits 20,000 pounds from her uncle and we have that totaling $356,000.
Chad:Like the equivalent of 300,000 pounds. So if that is even a slightly conservative estimate, no wonder she's so giddy.
Caitlin:If somebody was like Caitlin, I am going to give you $300,000, I'd be like wow, that solves a lot of problems.
Chad:My first thing would be I'm going to go flirt with a hunter by the goldfish pond. I would be like that's what I'm doing.
Caitlin:Well, she feels so free. Yep, she's like I can make all the biblical references I want. Oh, blunt notices something in the pond, and Flora references Melisandre, which is a Debussy opera. It's also super goth. It's sad there's a wedding ring in a pond. Both of the main, like love protagonists, die in the end. So it's super dark.
Chad:Yeah, it's a very interesting conversation that we don't have any precedent for in this book. No, also, afterwards we don't get this either.
Caitlin:It really gives me Halloween party vibes, because we're in the forest, because we have all this stuff and I think that's just part of maybe her style that we'll learn about. And again, I don't want to harp on it, but it's weird that we get so much Then, right after that awkward cultural reference, Poirot's like this is the time we make ourselves known. Yes, I wonder if he's like this. Flirtation must stop Right.
Chad:I can handle no more of this.
Caitlin:Yeah, exactly, he's like, or just like. It's going to be so much more awkward the more we put this off. We've got to make ourselves down and really we get this exchange Poirot's like. Oh, let me ask you some questions because I'm Poirot-ing and really the most important thing we get is that the night of the murder, blunt is convinced that he heard Raymond the secretary, who's also suspiciously happy. He was like I heard them having a conversation like before the murder and he said it was really ordinary and sounding unimportant. We know that that was from the dictaphone and so it was a really ordinary, important conversation. It just wasn't Raymond, it was a recording of Raymond. Poirot talks about the chair and, yeah, you had mentioned the knife. Do you want to go over why the knife is important?
Chad:Flora and Dr Shepard get into a bit of a disagreement about the fact that Flora absolutely recalls the dagger missing from the curio before dinner. It's like okay, so he took it early.
Caitlin:Yeah, there's some weird back and forth there and we can see Poirot like, what's up with this? And again, maybe it's all under the guise of protecting Ralph. This is what we had talked about before. Is that Poirot does something very odd here? What we had talked about before is that, like Poirot does something very odd here, he also sees the gold glinting thing. He gets very dirty, he gets mud on his shirt, and so we know that it's somewhat important, important enough for him to like encounter and deal with mud. And he's like, oh, I didn't get it. And so they're like okay, let's go back to the house. And Poirot's like hey, shepherd, I totally did find something. And Poirot says that sometimes lying is really important. Again, we can read it so many ways.
Chad:I think he's kind of like I am about to lie to you a ton and, as you had said, it's a gold ring that says from R and so we have like okay, is it Raymond? Is it Ralph? Who is this from R and who's in love with who? It's sleight of hand. Maybe he was a magician.
Caitlin:I like that theory.
Chad:Secondly, we have a gold ring found in a goldfish pond, which is Wow, it's a lot of gold. That's a lot of gold. The other thing too and maybe people are aware of this, but I just think that this kind of lends a certain type of the ugliness behind something potentially beautiful is that goldfish are bottom feeders. They're a carp. They just eat all the crap on the bottom of the pond.
Caitlin:It's a little sinister.
Chad:It's not like a porpoise pond where these beautiful mammals are.
Caitlin:I want to go to a porpoise pond, but we must leave this magical oasis. We go back to Fernley and we get to chapter 10, the Parlor Maid.
Chad:Chapter 10, the Parlor Maid Poirot finds out the details of Roger Aykroyd's will. He then enlists Dr Shepard to help get information about Mrs Ferrer's from Blunt. When checking an old box in Roger Aykroyd's room where he had a habit of keeping cash, Mr Hammond, the lawyer, states that 40 pounds is missing. A parlor maid, Ursula Bourne, is immediately suspected as she had been recently scolded by Roger Perrault. Asks Dr Shepard to follow up on Ursula Bourne's reference letter by speaking with her former employer who lives 13 miles away.
Caitlin:Okay, so perfect, yay again.
Chad:No nays so far. No nays, this is great.
Caitlin:But who knows, it could always happen. The chapter opens with Mrs Ackroyd, so remember, that's his sister-in-law. She's like super dramatic. She's like super upset and I feel like maybe Agatha Christie had some people in mind to make fun of. A lot of the people in her stories end up being these caricatures, and I guess maybe that's some of the fun of this for her too, is. She's like let me just make fun of certain types. Like she's the overly dramatic woman and Blunt is the weird awkward hunter dude who like longs for the colonial days. I just think that people of the time reading this are like charmed and kind of there in for the ride too, of like making fun of british types right or societal types, and so she's fun because she's like I think that akroyd accidentally killed himself because he loved to handle queer curios like weird objects from his travels.
Caitlin:Um, she's like maybe he slipped. It's so dumb. Obviously he didn't slip and fall and stab himself in the back while sitting down back first.
Chad:Yeah, jesus.
Caitlin:She puts these people in here to do a fun thing, but also to maybe push the plot forward.
Chad:Oh my God. So I just recently rewatched the Venice movie.
Caitlin:Yeah.
Chad:And how does the doctor kill himself in that he backs into?
Caitlin:Oh yeah, a sword.
Chad:That's interesting.
Caitlin:He did kill himself with a curio.
Chad:That feels very intentional to me.
Caitlin:Yeah, kenny B, you got one on us, one point for you. So she makes this ridiculous claim and everybody is awkward and embarrassed and there's this weird silence because they're like, oh my God, what is she doing? This woman is all over the place. And so Poirot's like I need to talk to Hammond, I need to really figure out about the inheritance thing. And so he kind of goes over and is like let's go to this room to talk.
Caitlin:And Shepard does this. He makes a weird choice here. Shepard decides to follow Poirot and Poirot I can imagine him looking around and be like, oh God, you're here. And Shepard is like, oh my God, am I intruding? Am I being really weird? So he kind of does the thing of like he's calling it out again. He's like, oh, I'm so embarrassed, I was just so curious, I've been following you around. And Poirot's like no, no, no, it's okay, but it really is, I think, a sign for Poirot. He's like this guy is stuck in my hip. He's like a Velcro dog, like he's just like wherever you go, I go. And so he's like you know what you? You go talk to Blunt and drop Mrs Farrar's into the conversation.
Chad:Sometimes when I read books, I see them as if I'm watching a film. Oh yeah, and this is so fascinating because Dr Shepard is the camera and he's going to all these places and doing all these things and that's how we're learning about them happening. But this time the camera follows Perrault and Perrault turns and goes what are you following? I can see it in my brain, but it's a striking thing to be jolted back into the perspective that we're getting as readers.
Caitlin:He never knows that with Hastings, you know, oh, no, no, no. And so that's this first moment where we're like, oh, this is not the same.
Chad:Yeah, Hastings would be hanging out with Flora, no doubt.
Caitlin:Yeah, he'd be like I'm in love with all the women in this room.
Chad:Exactly.
Caitlin:And we kind of learn that Lunt has recently lost a lot of money. And Shepard, though, makes a really interesting comment because he's supposed to ask about the Ferrars and he's like Mr Ferrars was only a man with more money than was good for him.
Caitlin:So Shepard is like I'm reporting back to you, Poirot, and I emphatically insist that Blunt is innocent. And so Poirot's like okay, I wonder if it's that thing I think about from Blinks when Hastings realizes that he's implicated an innocent person and it's his oh no moment, and then he has to go solve this big problem that he's created. I wonder if that emphaticness he's like we're two dudes, I don't want to get you in trouble. I wonder if there's a little bit of that in his insistence that he's innocent.
Chad:We both kill large mammals, as it turns out, oh my God, man is the most interesting prey or whatever that is.
Caitlin:Mr Hammond, it's such a cute little thing. He's like oh, does everybody in the family have enough money right now? I know you can't withdraw anything and his assets probably aren't unfrozen yet. Are we all good? I kind of like Mr Hammond.
Chad:Yeah, me too.
Caitlin:And Raymond is like you know what? Ackroyd used to keep some cash in a drawer by his bed. Let's get it, and then we can dole it out to make sure everybody has enough money. It's that kind of old fashioned patriarch is the provider, and if the provider stops then everybody's like my life can't go on. I have no job.
Chad:Also quickly in your bedroom, Caitlin, which drawer do you keep your box full of money?
Caitlin:You know what I wish? I had a box full of money. No, if I say I'll start, that is inviting people to break into my house. There's no money in my house, go somewhere else.
Chad:How about you? I always keep $2,000 just right next to me at all times at bed, all the time.
Caitlin:Just like under your pillow.
Chad:Yep, yep.
Caitlin:It's of another time, it's of another place. So yeah, so basically we learned, oh no, some money is missing. It could be parker, it could be one of the staff. We ask mrs russell about it. And we learned that the parlor maid, ursula bourne, is leaving tomorrow. So like what's up with that? And we learned that she and Ackroyd had had an argument where she had quote unquote disarranged his papers and they're like did you steal the money? And she's like I don't know what you're talking about. And this is then where Poirot was like go on this adventure, dr Shepard, go seek out who she lived with before. But basically the suspicion is on Ursula.
Chad:Right, and obviously she argued with him when he was alive, so did she then kill him, who knows?
Caitlin:And then it's interesting because Poirot's like, yeah, like she doesn't have a good alibi, but I just don't see a motive. And then we get this quote Dr Shepard observes he looked at me very hard, so hard. I felt uncomfortable. So that gives me chills, even though he says that he's like Dr Shepard, go to it's this town called Marby, or maybe that's the estate he's like, talk to the people who recommended her.
Chad:Well, Caitlin, that's going to bring us to chapter 1-1, or some people call it 11.
Caitlin:Some people.
Chad:Dr Shepard interviews Mrs Folliott about employing Ursula Bourne, Mrs Folliott becomes agitated and Dr Shepard leaves without gaining much information. Perrault in the meantime has tea with Caroline, Dr Shepard's sister. He tells her some of the details of previous cases and Caroline gives him information on the Aykroyd case, Dr Shepard's sister.
Caitlin:He tells her some of the details of previous cases and Caroline gives him information on the Aykroyd case. Yay again, I think you've passed the test and you don't have to take tests anymore. You're good.
Chad:I like tests Caitlin.
Caitlin:Okay, I can put the pressure back on. I can turn it up. Thank you, please. I think that the thing that's so interesting here is we start to see him get really uncomfortable with the pairing of Poirot and Caroline and he's like you're telling him too much. And again we can read it as like, oh, he's trying to protect Ralph. That's always what we can fall back on, but we know that he's like what are you two saying?
Chad:Have you ever been in a situation, Caitlin, where you have a friend, you're going out and you're doing something and like say you're at the mall, because we spend so much time in malls?
Caitlin:So much time in malls.
Chad:And you're hanging out with your friend at a mall and then you see another friend at the mall and you're like, hey, this is so great, da-da-da-da-da. But hi, blah-blah-blah-blah-blah. And then you know, your other friend goes away and you and your friend go out to see a movie, have dinner, whatever. But then let's say, like three weeks later you're talking to your friend you went to the mall with and she says oh yeah, by the way, I started hanging out with that other person Without you. That's how I felt with Shepard. There was part of it too. Like obviously he's freaking out because of what he did. But there is also this like but I thought I was Perrault's buddy.
Caitlin:Yeah, solo buddy.
Chad:Right, we're the ones that go to the mall together. Oh, okay, but you're going to the mall with my sister too.
Caitlin:That is so high school. I remember that feeling of like oh I, I guess I guess you all can like exist without me.
Chad:That's it, that's the feeling, right.
Caitlin:Yeah.
Chad:And later in life you're like oh, this is fantastic, I don't need to be here. But then it's like oh Jesus.
Caitlin:People can have multiple friendships and it's really fulfilling. But yeah, then you're like no, when I'm not there, everybody turns off, okay, so, so, yeah, it's a pretty simple chapter. We get more questions about the weird conversation Shepard had with Mrs Russell. This, to me, is one of the silliest parts of the story because it just adds so much complication. Mrs Russell has her own motives for the weird conversation they had at the beginning of the story, but this again, it's like questions, questions, questions. What's up with this? How does the Mrs Russell thing fit into everything? It obscures and obscures, and that's it. That's chapter 11, chapter 1-1.
Chad:This was before you and I knew each other, but didn't you have a podcast called Questions, questions, questions?
Caitlin:Yes.
Chad:Okay, I thought so.
Caitlin:You can find that deep in the dark internet. Really it's on the dark web. Okay, people didn't like it.
Chad:I'm guessing it was because it was too good.
Caitlin:I asked too many questions, but that's the title of the podcast.
Chad:I know that must have been so frustrating.
Caitlin:It was just really over everyone's head, anyways.
Chad:Okay, are we going to do it. We're going to do chapter 12?.
Caitlin:I think, yeah, we're at round the table and I think before I called it the round table as if Poirot were in King Arthur.
Chad:Yeah.
Caitlin:But it's round the table. We all sit round the table. So yeah, tell us what happens the table.
Chad:So yeah, tell us what happens. Chapter 12, round the Table. After the coroner holds the inquest. Inspector Raglan tells Perrault and Dr Shepard that Ralph is the subject of a nationwide manhunt. He also mentions that the phone call to Dr Shepard originated from the railway station three minutes before the departure of an express train to Liverpool. Later Perrault calls a meeting at Fernley that includes Mrs Aykroyd, flora Blunt, raymond and Dr Shepard.
Caitlin:Perfect Thank you. Chapter begins with the inquest. We haven't had a lot of inquest moments and we really don't get any here, but I think it's great that Shepard testifies about the method of the crime and the timing of the death, which I think is great because he is the expert. Then, yeah, we get this lovely Poirot moment, when Ragland is like Liverpool and he's giving all that information. Poirot is like, I think the call, I think it has nothing to do with Liverpool. I think that the call was meant to throw the police off the scent, which is exactly what happens. And then he's like I think when we find the explanation for the phone call, we will solve everything. And it's so true, because why would they make this call? What's happening?
Chad:In my mind. There's a part at the inquest where Shepard says well, in a way I'm the number one expert and authority on the method of the crime and timing of the death of Roger Ackroyd. And then Perrault spits out his tea.
Caitlin:Yeah, we missed that. That was a deleted scene.
Chad:That was a deleted scene, Sorry. Sorry, got us off track.
Caitlin:No, no, no, that's great. And then we get into this interesting thing. Oh, because we had the fingerprints. Like are there fingerprints on the knife? And Poirot warns Raglan. We have another misquote which I think is really interesting A lot of biblical references. This is another misquote, but I think it's intentional that he's misquoting it and it's disarming. And this comes from I am not an expert on the Bible, but Wikipedia, sure is. It warns those who sin that both the quick and the dead will be judged by Jesus, and so, whether you're alive or you're dead, jesus knows.
Chad:It's a very Santa vibe there.
Caitlin:Yeah, and it turns out Poirot is santa slash jesus, he's also watching. It's a warning, it's he. This is like a move that has many, many motives. He's warning, shepherd. And he's also like check Mr Ackroyd's fingerprints, you idiot. And Raglan is like he can't have committed suicide. Are you, mrs Ackroyd? And Poirot's like no, let me explain it. The murderer wore gloves, wiped the blade, put Ackroyd's hand on the handle. And Raglan is like why, why would he do that? And he says it's so simple. He's like to make a confusing case more confusing, and in this case too, I think that Shepard benefits from chaos, but Agatha Christie also benefits from chaos and anything random. It's all there again to like give us 16 more chapters.
Caitlin:Then Poirot asks for a little reunion of the family. It's very disarming, and so this is a big shift in the story. He really accuses everyone in this moment and it's interesting, there's no staff here. So Poirot has like crossed the staff off the list. He's like you are not suspects. First is like Flora, tell me where Ralph is, and she's like no, and he's like Ralph is in trouble. And the more you stay silent, the more in trouble he is. And it really looks like he's guilty. And we get the same scene of Poirot asking a young, vulnerable woman to confide in him. He's like trust Papa Poirot, who has much knowledge and experience and is not trying to entrap her. Flora doesn't take the bait, though. She's like I don't know where he is Then. I love these descriptions. This is also hearkening back to Halloween Party, where someone stares at Poirot in silence for like four minutes.
Chad:Poirot gazes at flora for a minute or two in silence, which like yeah, that's a long time that's unnerving and everybody's sitting there in silence right, it's not like they have their phones out, right no, they're like scrolling and then flora's just like okay, old man, everybody's just zoned in right there, focused in yeah.
Caitlin:And then poro has his outs and I love an outbursty, angry Poirot and he kind of is admonishing he is the Papa Poirot. He's like I am your superior. He looks to everyone, each person, and he says I beg of you to speak out, but Shepard doesn't include himself, he just says to each in turn he wasn't like. And then Poirot looked at me too and it was scary. He's like spreading the glare away, but he's not lying either. Then, mrs Zachary, she's uncomfortable. So she goes on this great whole thing about how it has to be Ralph. He was in World War I, he has shell shock. Then Flora's like okay, stop it, mother. And she announces that she will announce her engagement to Ralph in the papers. She's like Raymond, contact the news. I am engaged to Ralph, I support him. And she turns to Blunt and says she must stand by Ralph. And he nods and she's like I will not be disloyal to my friends. And Blunt is like I'm going to stand by Flora too. In retrospect it's this big self-sacrifice because she's in love with Blunt. So they both are like we will sacrifice our happiness to stand by Ralph.
Caitlin:Everybody is saying Ralph probably didn't do it and Poro brings this up later he's like people are pretty vehement that he's innocent. I'm kind of thinking he's innocent. Yeah, I think Poro knows what's going on in that moment and he's like wow, okay. He says Flora, you're very courageous and loyal. Please hold off on the announcement and it's in Ralph's interest. He says you put the case in my hands. You must not hamper me now. And we get this really interesting moment where he's like this could be my last case and I wonder if Agatha Christie is like please stop making me write Poirot books Again. This is the really passionate Poirot pleading with everyone. I think the subtext is you all have so much drama, I don't really care about it. But if you come forward with all drama, I don't really care about it, but if you come forward with all of the shit that you're hiding, it's going to make everyone's job really easy.
Caitlin:He says understand this, I mean to arrive at the truth. The truth, however ugly in itself, is always curious and beautiful to the seeker after it I am much aged. My powers may not be what they were here. He clearly expected a contradiction. So he's like I am so not what I used to be Pause. And he's like waiting. That reminds me my friend was telling me her son just went trick-or-treating and he's like a toddler and he's figured out that people think he he's really cute and he's using it to his advantage. So what he would do when he was trick-or-treating is like they would put like one piece of candy in his bag and he'd just wait there a beat and smile at them and then they'd give him another one, which I love. This boy is super and that's kind of what Poirot was doing, except the candy is a compliment. Nobody gives him a compliment, probably because he's been like staring at them for like two minutes. He says in all probability this is the last case I shall ever investigate.
Caitlin:But Hercule Poirot does not end with failure, monsieur and Madame. I tell you, I mean to know that's emphasized and I shall know, in spite of you all. He says every one of you in the room is concealing something from me. Each of you has something to hide. I appeal to you all Tell me the truth, the whole truth. And then he leaves, he just storms out. This is like his most dramatic and I love it. And then he like is kind of muttering to himself it's too bad, it's too bad. Like what a scene? It's like a suspect bomb, and this is really where Poirot has already struck out on his own, but like he really does strike out on his own, and what we get in these next couple of chapters is different people coming forward and revealing these secrets. So we get a nice structure that's broken a little bit by random things, like an evening at Mahjong. Pretty much there's this pattern of this person, this explanation, this person. That's why they're acting weird. Really, even in chapter 12, we're starting to kind of wind the story down.
Chad:I feel like Definitely and just Papa Perrault do preach. You know what I mean. It's just awesome when he goes off on these aggressive sort of. I know you're all lying to me what do you think I am?
Caitlin:I know he's so in love with the theatrical and he has range, but like he can disarm but he can also terrify, and that's some of the power of Poirot, wow, okay.
Chad:So I guess we're going to pick it up next time with chapter 13, which is called the Goose Quill, not to give anything away to people, but there it is.
Caitlin:There it is. Yeah, so we think about the goose quill and oh, in the next chapter we start sitting in the kitchen, I think of, like Shepard and Caroline, and they're having a lovely little whiskey and hot chocolate. So I'd say, bring that next time, or your non-alcoholic equivalent, like a nice little spiced hot chocolate with some cinnamon, I don't know.
Chad:Oh, that's a great idea. Also, what's that? Tea that is more kind of like red in nature, oh, like the rooibos, something I can't remember what it's called. Oh, no, it's called Constant Comment, I think that's what it's called. I'm going to look this up now, because now I have no choice. This is a great story that everyone's going to love because they're like, towards the end of the episode. We like it when Chad talks about beverages.
Caitlin:It's expected at this point.
Chad:Yes, it's Bigelow's Constant Comment tea, and when I was a kid it was the first tea I had ever had and it has a very unique taste to it. When you were talking about the spice, it felt like that to me, and but then I never had it again. And then I was at a hotel last year and I just went down to the tea area. I was like, oh shit, forgot my pants. No, I'm just kidding. And so then I just grabbed a couple of tea bags and as I was, I believe, prepping for a Perot Pals episode, I made that tea, the constant comment, and everything came flooding back.
Chad:Like my whole childhood. It was like oh my God.
Caitlin:So yeah, Is it kind of like the and this is a Pacific Northwest reference now, but as you are an honorary Pacific Northwesterner, is it like a market spice tea where it's that really thick?
Chad:No, no, I'm going to read from the website Okay, this is really important.
Caitlin:This is the mystery we have to solve.
Chad:This is super important people and you always should be drinking constant comment tea. But here's the deal Decades apart between servings Constant comment black tea, our secret recipe of orange rind and sweet spice. So constant comment tea, a recipe created by Bigelow Tea founder, ruth Campbell Bigelow, over 75 years ago.
Caitlin:Wait, just saying Okay, I think that we need to solve this mystery and I think we need to have a side-by-side taste test, because that sounds exactly like market spice tea and I think we need to have both, and I think we need to have them in front of us and we need to try each one and decide if they're the same or not.
Chad:This is perfect for our first episode of Tea Time with Caitlin and Chad.
Caitlin:This is great, yeah, also only available on the dark web.
Chad:It's also a golf show.
Caitlin:Oh no, I thought we left golf behind oh.
Chad:I swear to die.
Caitlin:Okay, so do what you want have a beverage, find one of these teas or not.
Chad:But by all means do what you want, Absolutely do what you want.
Caitlin:But stay safe, and on that note Wow.
Chad:All right, okay, so I'm going to go put some cocaine on a goose quill.
Caitlin:I'll talk to you. We also have to see what that's about. We have to really learn through experience there.
Chad:Oh, I love this book. It's fantastic.
Caitlin:Okay, with that, goodbye, thank you.
