Wings of the Rockies: Exploring Butterfly Life Histories

In this episode of Bug Banter, we are closing out our series on butterflies by exploring those found in the Rockies. From prairies to mountain tops, the Rockies are made up of a diversity of ecosystems varying in altitude and temperature. 

To learn more about these amazing creatures, we are joined by Steve Armstead, a Pollinator Conservation Specialist with the Xerces Society who has a particular focus on Nature-Based Climate Solutions. Steve is based in Colorado, where he partners on efforts to manage and create high-quality, connected, climate-resilient pollinator habitat.

Thank you for listening! For more information go to xerces.org/bugbanter.

Transcript

Matthew: Welcome to Bug Banter with the Xerces Society where we explore the world of invertebrates and discover how to help these extraordinary animals. If you want to support our work go to xerces.org/donate.

Rachel: Hi, I'm Rachel Dunham in Missoula, Montana.

Matthew: And I'm Matthew Shepherd in Portland, Oregon.

Rachel: In this episode of Bug Banter, we are closing out our series on butterflies by exploring those in the Rockies. I am especially excited about this one because I live in the Rockies! From prairies to mountain tops, the Rockies are made up of a diversity of ecosystems varying in altitude and temperature. 

Rachel: To learn more about these amazing creatures, today we are joined by Steve Armstead, a pollinator conservation specialist with the Xerces Society who has a particular focus on nature-based climate solutions. Steve is based in Colorado, where he partners on efforts to manage and create high-quality, connected, climate-resilient pollinator habitat.

Rachel: Welcome Steve, we're really excited to have you here.

Steve: It’s a pleasure and I know getting all—what I do—is a mouthful so thanks. 

Rachel: Yeah, you're very welcome. I hope I read that okay. Yeah.

Matthew: Yeah, thanks for joining us today, Steve. This is typical, we kind of like to start by laying the foundation. So, just kind of the basics. I mean, what area are we including when we talk about the Rockies and how many butterfly species are there?

Steve: So typically when we think about the Rockies, we're kind of starting in Northern New Mexico where the Rockies really kind of begin in the elevations occur and then going up through Colorado, Utah, Wyoming, Idaho, into Montana.

Steve: And we can keep going north if we want to, but we'll kind of stop there and generally be talking about the Rockies in the in the States more or less. And you know, the incredible thing about the Rockies is it is a really rich area.

Steve: When we think about butterflies—I know in some of the previous kind of podcasts we talked about just kind of the richness of some of the Southwest and even Texas in terms of their species diversity and so the benefit here is the Rockies are kind of nestled up against that. And so, you know, we actually do have some benefit from that diversity of the butterflies there that can move in our, part of our area, but also just with the elevation of the Rockies. 

Steve: So if you think about, you know, Texas has over 400 species of butterflies, you know, Arizona over 300, New Mexico itself has just slightly over 300. Here in Colorado, where I am, we have about 290 species of butterfly. And then it progressively gets a little lower as you think about Wyoming, or Idaho, or even Montana where you're just around 200. So if we've got 750 species in the US, you know, in some of our areas, we're just under half the species of butterflies that are found in North America. So pretty incredible.

Matthew: Yeah, I mean you just gave us some numbers there. And compared it to overall, you know, all of the US. I mean, compared to say the East or the West, the two kind of major regions that butt up against the Rockies. Does the Rockies have fewer overall, do you think or...?

Steve: No, I'd say we are—I'm lucky because I'm in one of the richest states in general. But if you're in a mountain state, you're in kind of the upper echelon of areas where butterflies are gonna be more numerous or kind of rich in terms of diversity.

Matthew: Interesting.

Steve: So I think this is—if you want to kind of look for butterflies and as many different species you can, heading to the Rocky Mountains is not a bad place to go.

Steve: You know, and part of that certainly, as I was kind of alluding to, is just the fact that you've got some proximity to where tropical butterflies move up from the south out of Mexico and kind of the warmer states. Butting up to, kind of, species that are coming from the Great Plains from the east and also you've got the west side of the Rockies, and the western butterflies that come in. And some of them kind of go back and forth over the peaks.

Steve: Not many, but because of that, there's, you know, an incredible amount of complexity and richness in the number of butterflies that can be found anywhere along the Rockies. And the numbers do drop as you go further north, just because of longer winters and a little harsher conditions, which aren't as favorable for butterflies, which again kind of from their basis are more of a tropical species.

Matthew: That's interesting because I think of the mountains as being cold and therefore less likely to have butterflies in them and yet they're hot and cold and very rich.

Steve: Yeah, I think the wonderful thing there is because of that cold environment, you get, you know, a lot of unique butterflies, and we can talk a little bit more about that later, but it's that blending from kind of species that are well adapted to that more outlined cold environment down to, you know, the species that are more adapted to warm or dryer environments, the plains environments, but they mix still kind of across the gradient and the elevation changes in the Rockies. And so that's really where that, you know, diversity comes from.

Rachel: Are there any particular hotspots of diversity in the Rockies?

Steve: Well, you know, I'm gonna say and just kind of what I was alluding to there is, somewhat the areas of the diversity are really where you have the stream drainages, the canyons, the ravines, that come out of the Rockies and connect into either the plains or, kind of on the western side of the Rockies, you get more into your sagebrush and your canyon-type habitats.

Steve: That's actually where the diversity occurs because you do have this mixing of, often times, where you have a little bit of moisture, water, whether it's a stream or maybe a little bit of a wetland, which often has a diversity of vegetation associated with it. You've got a kind of a corridor or pathway for butterflies to be connected to both that richness of the vegetation but you've got something—the topography, the land—that helps funnel them. 

Steve: And so, you know, I think anytime you come into, you know, the Rockies or a mountain area, you know, if you look and seek out those river corridors, the ravines, the canyons. Those are gonna be the places where you're likely gonna find, kind of, the most range of different types of butterflies, on wing or just present in those areas.

Steve: So those are kind of the key hotspots always to look at. But if you're going also into, you know, a mountain meadow where there's moisture, kind of breaks in the forested habitat. That's often times a key place because again, you've got edges there so you may get some of the more forest species coming out to nectar on the plants that are in kind of the openings, and/or, you know, butterflies that are more dependent upon the plants in those meadows themselves. You know, it was a host plant.

Steve: So those are all often times kind of spots of diversity. And just, you know, the thinking again is the southern part of the Rockies are probably a little more diverse just in general because they're collecting a little bit more of the strays or just kind of a broader diversity of what's present, and are warmer parts. Knowing still that we're talking about the Rockies and you can get up high in it can be unpleasant at any time of the year for sure.

Rachel: Okay. That's perfect. It’s great tip. I was out this weekend trying to find some wild flowers and found a great hike in a river drainage and hiked up and got into a meadow with lots of beautiful native wild flowers and there were so many butterflies. It was really kind of amazing. So yeah, it all makes sense now.

Steve: Yeah, but also, there, it's like you maybe have the fortune of being out on one of those perfect days, too, when the wind isn't blowing and the, you know, the sun's out a little bit and it's like they're rare chances. But when you get at the right time, it's like it is magical really with kind of how busy it is.

Steve: But that's also a part is, you know there's a narrow window of time where those adult butterflies could be active, to find a mate, to find a nectaring resource and then find, ideally, an ideal host plant, if it's a female. You know, so they're gonna take advantage of those nice day windows. 

Steve: And so also if that's when you're out there, you can see a lot of that diversity, you know, in a very active timeframe. And it doesn't happen, of course, in the, you know, winter there or even in the early spring or, late fall. So if you're out in the summertime, when things are in bloom and the weather is okay, it can be an incredible experience for sure.

Matthew: So basically the days when we put our hiking boots and our backpacks on. That's when the butterflies are doing it, too.

Steve: Yeah, you hope so. Yes. If you're not packing your raincoat, you know it's going to be good.

Matthew: Yeah. Yeah, I mean it's always nice to think about places with lots of butterflies, but I know that we shouldn't overlook places with fewer, especially if the butterflies are unusual. Now the Rockies have high mountains, which means extreme conditions, rare conditions. Are there butterflies that are unique to the Rockies? 

Steve: There are, and that's I think one of the wonderful things. So again, if the weather conditions are ideal and you can even get up to an alpine area, you know you're going to be treated by some butterflies you're not gonna find in other locations. And one of the things I love is just the names that come with these.

Steve: So you're talking about butterflies like the Melissa Arctic. So again, here's a cold-sounding butterfly, but that's the environment it loves. Or the Magdalena alpine. So again, kind of familiar with the environment it’s in. Or the rockslide checkerspot. So these are butterflies that are in this alpine environment and they like kind of that rocky, talus, you know, kind of rough.

Steve: Yeah, again, usually above tree line. So you're talking only about, you know, low-growing vegetation, maybe, you know, a few small trees that have been shaped down into krummholz or, you know, shrub type size. But these butterflies, you know, have to kind of contend with that variability in the weather, a very short season. And sometimes, you know, limited access to their host plants. So they are often, you know, the females, you know, if they find, in an area of their host plant, whether that's like for the, Melissa Arctic or the Magdalene alpine, you know, sedge or a grass, you know, a particularly nice patch, they're going to spend their time right where the host plants are. 

Steve: And, you know, it's really the males that got to be kind of spending—if they're spending much time on wing because it's a harsh environment to spend a lot of time on wing—they're going to be kind of flying around or maybe perching on some of these, you know, rocky talus slopes that you find up in the in the alpine areas and just kind of wait to see if they can scout out a female. And hopefully, if they do, know that they'll be the first one and you know then you start the next generation.

Steve: But even having, you know, the benefit of, okay, I've been successful in finding a mate, then that female, again, needs to be ideally pretty close to where the suitable, you know, host plant is for them. So they're gonna be able to lay their eggs and then with that short season up there, you know, it's like we think typically, okay, great.

Steve: With butterflies and warmer environments, you know, you might have a generation that occurs all in one summer or maybe multiple generations. In the alpine it kind of—you have a much shorter window, so there's not as much time for a caterpillar to actually feed and grow and size enough that it's going to be able to mature into an adult. 

Steve: So they're going to have to oftentimes do that over multiple seasons. So you may have for the very first season, you know, the female lay an egg and that egg may actually overwinter. And then you've got a caterpillar that'll, you know, start feeding and maybe only get through a couple instars before it actually again has to wait another winter before it can actually finish feeding and maybe mature. 

Steve: So oftentimes you will have the—for many of these—you'll have you, know, two or three year cycles. And sometimes even longer before you can go actually from an egg to a mature adult. So. And that's all just accounting for, you've got maybe a month or two, maybe three at the most, where there's a window that's adequate enough for you to be active and available to munch down on your host plant before the weather sets in the snow sets in.

Matthew: That's really interesting because we tend to think of butterflies as these more ephemeral, you know, short-lived and we grew up as a kid and you're like, oh, that butterfly it's only going to be alive for a week or two weeks. You know, some really short period of time and yet, when you see that adult, it could be two years old. 

Steve: Yeah, right. Exactly it. Exactly it. Yeah. You know, and just to think about too, you know, some of them develop a bit of a life cycle as well that, you know, maybe this is a particularly harsh winter, long winter and I may need to actually wait another one before I can you know, go to my next stage. So some have matured—some flexibility, you know, that they're not on such a rigorous cycle that this is the timeframe for which I'm going to mature. It's like, I may actually have to wait another cycle, too, to wait 'til there's maybe better conditions for me.

Rachel: That's so interesting. So that sort of leads into this question of how are butterflies in the Rocky Mountains doing? Are there any species of concern and specifically with climate change impacting mountain environments and potentially butterflies?

Steve: Yeah, no, it's a great question because, you know, certainly the fact that we have these alpine areas, you know, or in mountains in general, and is we talk about with climate change, potentially warming, change in temperatures or more variable and sometimes extreme weather conditions occurring, that certainly has implications for Rocky Mountain butterflies.

Steve: So the alpine species some of the ones I just mentioned, and others, you know, do have limited, you know, and they're well adapted to these extreme environments. But they also are pretty careful and sensitive around temperature. So you can think about, and if you're up, you know, a caterpillar underneath a snow field. And, you know, your life cycle is developed to say okay, I need to come out in the spring once the snow is melted and hopefully my host plant is, you know, available and growing so I can be able to feed.

Steve: There's kind of a sequence that occurs there and with warming temperatures one of the things that is occurring is sometimes when the snow first is really kind of melted, is becoming earlier and earlier in the spring. And so, that, you know, triggers basically the plants sometimes to be able to grow or the caterpillar may be able to come out of its stage. Or the plant may not be ready by the time the caterpillar, you know, things warm up and the caterpillar is ready to eat. 

Steve: So it's, you know, it's important that kind of the host plant and the caterpillar oftentimes stay in sequence with each other, but as there's variability in temperatures as kind of some of the seasonal variability occurs, that can really offset kind of the ability for that caterpillar and the host plant to be in sequence. And that's a real kind of challenge and probably a risk factor or threat for these high alpine butterflies. And, so I think, you know, an example there could be, and certainly one that is recognizes—you know, an endangered species is the Uncompahgre fritillary.

Steve: So this is a small little fritillary up in the San Juan mountains of Colorado. It is listed as an endangered species under the U.S. Endangered Species Act, primarily because it's just a very, you know, small butterfly dependent upon a willow, the snow willow up in these high alpine areas in the Southern, Southwest Colorado and they don't stray and go very far from the host plant and so the small, you know, population is kind of restricted to a few mountains and these changing conditions here, the changing of, you know temperatures, moisture can all probably affect the host plant. 

Steve: And then this you know fritillary really doesn't have much ability to move or migrate. It's kind of at the top already of the geographic area that it doesn't, it can't really move north because it's kind of on an island in space. So those are very, you know, kind of at risk situations for some of these species that live, if you want, on top of the mountains. They really don't have a place to go and as kind of the warmer temperatures move up, you know, they're really kind of don't have a way to manage that and kind of move beyond and adjust to the changing situation. 

Matthew: Because they're already living in in the penthouse at the moment, aren't they?

Steve: Yeah, yeah, and there's nowhere else to go. Yeah.

Matthew: There's nowhere else they can, yeah. And I mean, I don't know if you had the answer to this question and I'm kind of throwing at you unexpectedly, but what kind of rate are the temperatures changing? Like for the Uncompahgre fritillary, it's like 14,000 feet, I think, as it's kind of altitude zone for where it lives and, you know, do we have data on temperature change at those kind of levels?

Steve: Luckily, we do and I probably don't know the details on that, but there are fortunately some research stations that are really trying to track that. One example is the Rocky Mountain Biological Station outside of Crested Butte, Colorado, which is kind of doing a lot of work across the number of different, you know, animal taxon, but including invertebrates and including butterflies. 

Steve: And so they're tracking, you know, various aspects of both the temperature, climate condition changes over time, but also how, you know, animals are responding to those changes and they've been doing it for decades. And so, you know, they are documenting that there is, you know, slight increases in temperature, you know, it doesn't take much, whether it's just a percentage of a degree over time.

Steve: But probably the things that again, they are triggering is, where that has an implication on where the snow melt is occurring earlier and earlier in the year. Or, kind of on other end, conditions are staying warmer later in the year, where kind of they're seeing things being of greater risk for a number of different taxa, you know, including invertebrates or butterflies, but other species as well, the plants themselves. 

Steve: So, I'll just kind of draw another kind of aspect here is one of the, you know, alpine butterflies. It strays down in the montane and it's pretty broad based is the Rocky Mountain parnassian, which is just one of—it's also one of my favorite butterflies as well. But it actually feeds on stonecrop, so sedum lanceolatum. So, and you know, when you see this butterfly, you know, it's a graceful, you know, big white butterfly. It's an old world swallowtail. So it's, you know, doesn't have the kind of the retreating tail of a swallowtail, but it's a larger butterfly.

Steve: It's beautiful. The males just kind of float in the air and when they're abundant, it's just like, in the middle of the summer, you got a bunch of large snowflakes all flying around, you know, an alpine or a sub-alpine area. But this species of butterfly feeding on the sedum, it uses that chemical. And I know Kevin was talking a little bit previously about some of the secondary chemicals in host plants and how the butterflies incorporate them. 

Steve: Well, that's something that this white butterfly, which is a slow flyer. You know, normally you'd think that's not probably a safe practice for a butterfly. You're gonna be easily preyed upon by something if you're just kind of flitting around. But because it's actually got some of this chemical defense, it has the ability to protect itself. And it gets a secondary chemical, sarmentosin from the sedum.

Steve: I'm bringing this back to climate change, hang in there with me. It's that, you know, that chemical is available through the sedum. During the winter time, that plant itself becomes actually toxic to the caterpillar. So during the warmer seasons or when that caterpillar can graze on it, the caterpillar has the ability to actually manage the toxin and the toxin level of the plant is kind of manageable to the caterpillar.

Steve: But during the winter time, that toxicity of that particular chemical is too great for a caterpillar, so it can't graze, or shouldn't graze on that particular plant, which is a fine thing. It's not grazing in the winter time. It’s blanketed typically under snow. But now go back to that point. Snow's thawing quicker in the springtime. If that plant, again, still has too high a level of toxin in it, but the caterpillar is now available to graze, you've created a risk factor for this poor little caterpillar.

Steve: It says I'm hungry, I finally got the snow off me but the host plant yet is in a incompatible condition for that caterpillar to graze on it. It becomes, you know, you know, poison to the caterpillar itself. So things like that, that relationship, can be disrupted by things that, you know, with climate change, with changing and variable temperatures, that can be very problematic.

Steve: So I've got just another example that I think is helpful, too, because I'm gonna go a little lower in the Rockies, kind of away from the alpine but just with, you know, climate conditions we talk about potentially drier conditions or drought type situations.

Steve: Here in the mountains again, we've got below the alpine, big bands of forested country. And so that brings to mind, you've got forests, you've got lightning, you've got fire potential, you've got humans using these areas.

Steve: You've got maybe drought conditions and all this woody, you know, substance available to burn.  And you know, understandably kind of forest fires are part of our mountain environment, and many species are well adapted to that. But what they're not well adapted to is when we've got prolonged drought conditions and the forest conditions are particularly vulnerable to extreme wildfire situations.

Steve: That causes a challenge. And so I think between, you know, how over time we often haven't done the best job of managing some of our forests. We've, you know, cut them down, let them to grow in more thick, you know, and not allowed sometimes the spacing that allows meadows or, you know, certain forbs to be able to grow that provide the host plant or the nectar resources for butterflies that kind of get crowded out. 

Steve: That, you know, that becomes an issue. But then too, is we have these extreme, you know, fire events that can actually knock out extensive areas of our mountains. Which may, if you've got little isolated populations that use certain environments, you know—another threatened species is the Pawnee montane skipper, which occurs in the Ponderosa pine forests and is well adapted to feeding on, blue grama grass, it's host plant. And also its primary nectar source is blazing star.

Steve: It needs these two plants to be in close proximity. And in a forest condition that is open that allows the grass and the flower to grow, but also, you know, it's in a Ponderosa pine woodland environment. So, you know, it is also with some limited fire, both the plants and the butterfly can adapt to that. But for an extreme event, you know, that you've got a species that only occurs in, you know, a couple counties in Colorado, you know, a large forest fire can put that at risk.

Steve: And in fact, you know, 20 years ago we had a large forest fire, which did put a lot of that at risk. So, you know, again, climate conditions, changing kind of our wildfire regimes can put some populations of certain species that, you know, have a narrow range of geography which they occur, just the right conditions of host plant and, you know, nectar resource. It really puts them at risk.

Matthew: Some sobering information there. Thanks.

Steve: Sorry, don't want to be a downer. We went from oh, this is such a wonderful thing, go up and see, you know, the snowflakes flying in the middle of, you know, the summer and the alpine and these great experiences of all the butterflies in the, you know, alpine meadows. And then oh, but there's a risk.

Matthew: And that kind of segues into, I mean, you talked about all this. You know, the threats what we know about it, so that means that there must be ways in which we know how these butterflies are doing, the ways in which we're collecting this kind of information and data. So I mean, are there surveys being done at the moment or I mean, are there ways in which people can contribute to understanding this situation facing our butterflies?

Steve: Yeah, I think that's—thanks for asking this question. I think it's really important. And I mentioned a little bit just with the Rocky Mountain Biological Station, one of the wonderful things that we're able to put, you know, some incredible information out there about how does climate change affect things. Part of that is because there are scientists doing long-term studies, you know, for over 20, 30 years.

Steve: Looking at the same factors over time to see how that changes. And, you know, some of the early studies, over 20 years ago up in our Rocky Mountain Biological Station were on butterflies and there's work underway again to repeat those studies.

Steve: So, you know, we can kind of do that comparison over time. There are other kinds of long term studies that have been done in Rocky Mountain National Park, you know, and I mentioned when we first started kind of the number of butterflies, you know, in Rocky Mountain National Park, which is just, you know, an hour's drive from where I live.

Steve: There's over a 141 species of butterfly that occur just in that national park. And I was fortunate enough to know an individual who said, you know, it's really important. Here's this gem of a national park. We want to know more about what's happening and what butterflies are here and what's happening to those butterflies.

Steve: And so, you know, he set up just out of his own interest, basically transects in many of the different habitats in the national park and eventually got a number of volunteers to do that. And these are the kind of a Pollard walk. 

Steve: So it's a system where you have a, you know, maybe a kilometer long transect and you establish basically a, you know, at the time it was like a five-meter box around you of space that you just slowly walk through, you know, that environment along your transect and you count all the butterflies that you see. So you  just repeat that over time, you know, over the course of a summer and over a course of a number of years. 

Steve: And you can start to understand some of the kind of trends of what's happening and with what certain species, but also over time collect because, again we talked earlier not all species not all butterflies are out every year. 

Steve: And/or conditions may be more favorable in a certain year. You know, you're not in a drought. You're actually in a great moisture year where you may actually get more hooked plants and therefore more, you know, kind of abundance of certain butterflies.

Steve: And so you can kind of get a glimpse at what's happening and create some baselines around that. And also get to understand you can actually come up with a, you know, ability to say there's 141 species here, you know, and do that in a more rigorous way. So, you know, there's those transects were, you know, around for about 15 years, but it gives a great baseline over that timeframe and something we can go back and repeat.

Steve: There's other work in Colorado that's kind of a Colorado butterfly monitoring network doing same thing kind of Pollard walks in a bunch of different areas across the state collecting a baseline of information. So I think those type of long term surveys, they take a lot of effort, but they're incredibly important and that effort really, we can't always just count on scientists doing that because, you know, that would be wonderful but we just don't have enough scientists, frankly, with that expertise and we don't always need all the in-depth expertise. 

Steve: What we can also really benefit by is people who can learn enough, you know, engage with understanding to how to identify, you know, some of the butterflies that you're gonna encounter and then go out and do these transects themselves.

Steve: So there's a lot of different, you know, ways you can engage in citizen science. Be maybe engaged in a formal transect type walk. Or, frankly, too, just as you're out and about with you know programs like iNaturalist. You know, you see a butterfly. It's on a flower. Snap a photo and add that to iNaturalist or maybe there's another citizen science project in an area that's more specific for trying to identify the butterflies in your area. 

Steve: If there are, engage with those. Because that kind of crowdsourcing of that information really does help to track, you know, what butterflies occur where, which nectar resources are they dependent upon. And that's really, you know, for us incredibly important information that the science, you know, is really growing about how to use that information and make benefit of that. So I think there's a lot of benefit there. And over time we can actually track, too, of how are things changing? You know, use that information to look at maybe there's, you know, look at climate information and changes or models.
 

Steve: We can also just look at management practices, land conversion, you know, our management practices. So that was in somewhat kind of where I got into thinking more about butterflies is when I was working, I worked in an open space system outside of Boulder. And, you know, we did a lot of work to look at birds and mammals, but we really didn't do much about insects.

Steve: And I, you know, knew at the time it's like, well, there's a lot closer relationship between how you're managing your vegetation, your resources, and what's that mean for the invertebrates? And so if you don't really make the ability to understand that connection, you know, you're really losing a more direct link to are we doing the right things to manage the vegetation that helps create the whole foundation for a habitat, you know, a healthy habitat? 

Steve: And so that kind of motivated me to say, well, I think it's really important to set up, you know, a butterfly monitoring system in this open space system so we could understand a little bit more about the butterflies that were occurring, but also understand a little bit about some of the management practices where, you know, we were doing agricultural haying or so on, so forth. Or, you know, maybe to some extent understanding as trails get developed, you know, are there changes that are occurring in the way you can manage? 

Steve: And is there a way to track butterfly communities over time that could give you some insights? Things you have to be, you know, thinking around when you want to manage or make sure you're doing your best you can for managing the natural resources of an area.

Matthew: What you were saying about the connection between the management and butterflies as the kind of indicator species is I think is really valuable because if listeners, if they listen to all three of these series of butterfly talks each time there's been this emphasis or this mention of this really intimate connection between plants and the butterflies and in the end, the management you do will typically influence the vegetation and plant communities which you know, the presence or not of butterflies is a really good indicator of that health.

Steve: Yeah, no, it's key. I mean, even here, we're talking about the Rocky Mountains, but the amazing thing too is the Rockies, you know, there are pockets of where there's relic vegetation, you know. Just outside of Boulder, I know I go to a little canyon that has birch trees in it and wood lilies. You know, something that doesn't normally occur in Colorado, it's much more part of the northern or even eastern part of the States and yet just over kind of time this little pocket has held in the right conditions. It's kind of on the north side of a mountain so it's cooler. 

Steve: You know it's where this kind of relic vegetation occurs. And yet I know also to go there because I'm going to see probably some butterflies or some invertebrates I'm not seeing elsewhere because again there's this unique little pocket. And that happens too with just some of the maces, the old outwash from the ancient Rockies, you know, where there's tall grass prairie just right up against the foothills and, you know, incredibly rich, you know, diversity of species and some real kind of butterflies or little skippers that are on the edge of their habitat but are holding tight. 

Steve: Which is great, yet any sort of development conversion of that space into houses or otherwise or, you know, poor land management, over grazing, jeopardizes these kind of small little pockets of uniqueness.

Rachel: Well, you've given us a lot to think about and ideas of how to help butterflies. In past episodes we've talked about planting native plants and, as you've mentioned, getting involved with community science. But I love that you're here because we have a story of hope that I was hoping you could discuss a little bit.

Rachel: And it's actually, it's quite a big deal. So I'm excited that we get to share this with folks if they're not aware of what's happening in Colorado, but there was a recent win for pollinators in the state, that you were deeply involved in, along with some other staff at Xerces.

Rachel: Can you tell us a little bit about this effort and what it means for butterflies and other pollinators?

Steve: Yeah, no, it's kind of one of the joys I have about working with Xerces is kind of the diversity of things I can get involved in. But this one was kind of an opportunity where I think circumstances just were in the right situation in the state where we had, you know, our Department of Natural Resources that was recognizing and hearing, I think a lot from the Colorado community that we've got to be paying attention to our pollinators.

Steve: And also a governor who is aware that this is probably important. And also a recognition that Colorado is one of, you know, was one of the nine, but one of the few states unfortunately that didn't recognize pollinators, or any invertebrate, as wildlife. Therefore, our wildlife agency in the state didn't have really any direct authority to have developed programs or manage, you know, butterflies, let alone bees, let alone fireflies, let alone ants, you know, or anything else that, you know, could be looked at as an invertebrate.

Steve: And so, there was a kind of an initiative by our Colorado legislature, a bill proposed, that let's actually change that situation. And so they worked carefully with our Department of Natural Resources. Kind of talked about what would be a way to step in and give more, you know, ability for our wildlife agents here to actually manage invertebrates, but be careful, too, because there's concerns when you kind of go wholesale and say, now we're going to start managing invertebrates, but for an agency or state that hasn't done that, that's a big change. 

Steve: So I think there was a lot of careful conversation about how do we make a change here. And what they said is, you know, and part of what the legislation approved was, we need to make sure invertebrates, butterflies are included. And so they created a bill that says we want to directly give our wildlife agency that authority. 

Steve: We're going to be careful, you know, we know there's concerns about what does this mean? Does this mean a lot more new regulations? And so it was really said we're going to focus first on being able to develop management programs. And study, so we really know more about how to protect butterflies and our invertebrates. 

Steve: You know, and then we can, you know, need be, think about later and make sure we're addressing if there are regulatory—that could be something potentially that happens down the road, but that's not that, kind of, the initial piece here. 

Steve: But because I think it was kind of careful conversation and crafting of the legislation, it was actually able to be approved by the Colorado state legislature this past spring and then signed off just a couple weeks ago by Governor Polis with Colorado.

Steve: So now actually we have going forward the ability for our Parks and Wildlife to, you know, develop programs to actually, you know, work with organizations like Xerces to figure out where are the areas we really need to focus on, or the invertebrates. And for me, it's like, what butterflies, you know, do we need to really be thoughtful around? There's more than just those that are listed, you know, as endangered or threatened. There are other imperiled species. 

Steve: Some of these are in these relic grasslands or some of those again up on the mountain tops. We might want to make sure we know more about how they're doing or some of the threats they're doing. And so now we can actually, you know, do a lot of collaborative work to think about that.

Steve: And I think the other key piece there is other than just giving this authority, there was actually positions. So wildlife positions that were funded with this bill, too, so that there's actually staffing that's available to do that work which is huge. And so this is a significant change for Colorado and everybody, you know, that I collaborated with to help support the bill, you know, and those were just thinking about the importance of pollinators, it's brought a lot of excitement.

Matthew: Yeah, I think the other thing that's worth mentioning here, Steve, is that this bill also came out following a report. 

Steve: Ha ha ha.

Matthew: Yeah, which I thought you were going to talk about the report to start with but you didn't.

Matthew: You kind of glossed over it and I don't want to ignore that because the report that you were instrumental on, along with your co-authors from the extension service and the university, spent a year putting together an assessment and overview of the state of the science relating to pollinators in Colorado and reviewed all the policies and agencies and came up with recommendations on what could be done within the state of Colorado to support the pollinators. 

Steve: I know it's going to be—I am long winded Matthew—and I knew if I got into that, too, I'd be even extending that segment a lot longer. So you're right I glossed over that but I'm—I so appreciate you connecting the dots there because this is an important piece that led, you know, certainly to setting the stage for the legislation.

Matthew: Yeah, because the co-authors with Darren and Adrian, right? Yeah.

Steve: Yeah. And then, you know, we had another 16 scientists, you know. Adrian is a scientist from the University of Colorado Museum of Nature and Science was able to, you know, get information. We had certainly a lot of collaboration from all the expertise in Xerces Society.

Matthew: Well, thank you, Steve, for the work that you've done.

Rachel: Yes, I was going to say thank you.

Matthew: Sorry, but also thank you for this conversation. I mean, it's been great talking with you and learning. I mean, Yeah, learning so much more about the Rockies and the butterflies, etc.

Matthew: It's always sad when we get to the point we have to wrap these up, but the silver lining of each in the end is that we get to ask in our favorite question, which is, what inspired you to want to work with insects?

Steve: Oh, boy, you know, given some thought to this, it's like the first thing I remember is I grew up, in Colorado on a—I call it a lake, but it was a reservoir. We have very few real lakes here in Colorado

Steve: But part of the reservoir had, you know, a marsh area with a lot of milkweed in it. And so with the milkweed as a kid, I would see the monarchs coming in. And so that captured my attention immediately. It was these big beautiful, you know, orange butterflies. So I dug in with all the books that I could about kind of the monarchs. And that's always had for me kind of a baseline. This is something I'm just fascinated in and butterflies are cool.

Steve: You know, the whole metamorphosis, the whole life stages. That's really cool.  And you know, it's always, that was a passion, but it was really college, actually, that things started to connect the dots for me and in part I worked and did an internship at a park outside of Boulder and, you know, it was great. 

Steve: As an intern, we're supposed to do these, you know, kind of a project as part of our internship. And we had brochures about the mammals and we had brochures about the wildflowers and the geology and it's like you know what? Butterflies! Those are even cooler. People need to know about butterflies. So I made it my mission to do a brochure about butterflies.

Steve: And so that kind of like, wait a minute, this is something I really want to learn even more about in a more rigorous way and really kind of get to understand it. It was also at a time when digital photography—this is going to date me a little bit here—but when digital photography was just starting to really come out and it's like, oh, what do you mean? I can snap as many pictures of something and then take that back and really understand what I was looking at. Oh, how cool. 

Steve: So it really kind of elevated my interest to being able to go up, take a bunch of pictures, and then sit with those pictures and kind of relate. Oh, what butterfly am I seeing here and why is it here and what plant is it on type thing. So that kind of started a whole, from there, a lifelong passion of just paying attention to butterflies and the environments that they're being found in.

Matthew: That's great. And, and you're worried about being aged because you remember the beginning of digital, I'm like, oh...

Steve: Yeah, I go well beyond that, but yes.

Rachel: Well, thank you, Steve, so much. This has been just so interesting. And again, thank you and everyone who worked so hard to make such a meaningful impact in the state of Colorado and it's exciting to hear the other states are sort of hopefully looking to that and making those changes, as well, and taking those steps forward. But thank you so much for joining us and for sharing your stories and your knowledge and we hope to have you back again, as we do with all of our guests, but it's been a real pleasure.

Steve: It’s been fun for me so thank you so much for the opportunity.

Rachel: Bug Banter is brought to you by the Xerces Society, a donor-based nonprofit that is working to protect insects and other invertebrates—the life that sustains us. 

Rachel: If you’re already a donor, thank you so much. If you want to support our work go to xerces.org/donate. For information about this podcast and for show notes go to xerces.org/bugbanter.