How Habitat Kits Are Helping Save Pollinators

Creating habitats with native plants is one of the most impactful ways to help invertebrates. One of the programs at Xerces is helping people do just that by providing free Habitat Kits to communities in several regions of the US.

Joining us to discuss our Habitat Kit Program is Giovanni Di Franco, Xerces Endangered Species Conservation Biologist and Pollinator Habitat Specialist. Gio is working to develop the habitat kit program in southern California, especially in the greater Los Angeles area. 

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Photo: Nancy Kirchhoff

Thank you for listening! For more information go to xerces.org/bugbanter.

Transcript

Matthew: Welcome to Bug Banter with the Xerces Society where we explore the world of invertebrates and discover how to help these extraordinary animals. If you want to support our work go to xerces.org/donate.

Rachel: Matthew pollinator week is coming up.

Matthew: Yep, and you know what that means?

Rachel: It's pollinator week.

Matthew: Well, duh. I mean it, means that we're hosting another Bug Banter live episode.

Rachel: That's right. Join us live on Tuesday, June 17th at 10:00 AM Pacific time for a Q & A session with Xerces experts on how to build pollinator habitat.

Matthew: And can we reveal who's joining us? Who those mysterious experts are?

Rachel: Nope. But you can go to our website to find out at xerces.org/events. You can register there too.

Matthew: Ah, and dear listeners, if you can't make it at that time, don't panic, you won't miss out. The recording will be released on all our normal podcast platforms and on YouTube a few days later on Friday, June the 20th.

Rachel: We hope you'll join us again. Register at xerces.org/events. You can also send us questions ahead of time at bugbanter@xerces.org.

Matthew: Thanks for that reminder, Rachel. I'm looking forward to it. And now let's get on with our conversation with today's guest.

Rachel: Hi, I'm Rachel Dunham in Missoula, Montana.

Matthew: And I'm Matthew Shepherd in Portland, Oregon.

Rachel: Creating habitats with native plants is one of the most impactful ways to help invertebrates. One of the programs at Xerces is helping people do just that by providing free Habitat Kits to communities in several regions of the US.

Rachel: Here to discuss our Habitat Kit Program is Giovanni Di Franco, Xerces endangered species conservation biologist and pollinator habitat specialist. Gio is working to develop the Habitat Kit Program in Southern California, especially in the Greater Los Angeles Area.

Rachel: Welcome, Gio! We’re super excited to have you with us today!

Gio: I’m excited to be here.

Matthew: Yeah, no, thanks for making the time to sit down with us. So before we get into the conversation about habitat kits, can you tell us more about your position? I mean, job titles don't always really make it clear. So what does an endangered species conservation biologist and pollinator habitat specialist do?

Gio: Yeah, it's quite a long name. Just to say that I am here to provide resources to people—anyone really—that reaches out to Xerces in the Southern California area about habitat questions regarding pollinator species. And a lot of our work that I tend to be in works with the bumble bee and monarch butterflies, so I get to do a lot of outreach. And that includes tabling, engaging with younger people, families, and sharing some resources that Xerces has, on top of leading our Southern California Habitat Kit Program—where we'll probably get into more information on that later. But it's an exciting opportunity to meet a lot of different people in Southern California that are passionate about pollinator conservation.

Matthew: Yeah, no, that sounds like a great job to have—lots of engagement and interaction with the local community.

Rachel: Talking about the habitat kits, I'd like to start with kind of the history of the Habitat Kit Program, because we haven't really discussed it here on Bug Banter. Why was the program developed in the first place?

Gio: Yeah, so, Xerces has the Western Monarch Count that they do annually, and my colleagues and supervisors, Angela Laws and Jessa Kay Cruz noticed the major dip in counts in the 2018 to 2019 year of the monarch butterfly. And with that, of course, comes some worry. Xerces is doing as much as they can—doing conservation with our agricultural workers one-on-one—but they were thinking of different ways to get the public involved and increase their reach. How can we get more people to contribute to creating pollinator habitat? And so this idea was really just born out of the need to introduce milkweed and other nectar plants that can be really beneficial during the monarch migration. And of course, not only is that gonna help monarch butterflies, but other native pollinators as well.

Rachel: So as a follow up to that, where and when did the program start?

Gio: So it started back in California in 2019 after Angela and Jessa had noticed that dip in the monarch butterflies. They were working in the Central Valley with agricultural workers on tribal lands, public lands, and lands affected by wildfire. They were really fortunate that they got a lot of interest, and so because of that they're actually entering their seventh year in 2025, and they can proudly say—and additionally, with the plants that I distributed last year in my pilot program, which we'll get into, I'm sure, later—250,000 plants at this point in time.

Gio: Yeah. Really impressive, I have to say. Haha.

Rachel: That's amazing. I had—I knew that it had started in California, but I didn't realize it's been seven years already.

Gio: Yeah, seven years. And they are really proud to say that they get repeat partners, and of course, every year more and more people are finding out about the program, as well.

Rachel: So we talked a lot about California—are there other states where this Habitat Kit Program exists?

Gio: Yeah, so because [of] it's success, it ended up going to Washington, Oregon, we have partners in Detroit, Michigan, Wisconsin, Santa Fe—which is now New Mexico, in general—and then the Mid-Atlantic, as well. So a lot of different people across the country can get involved and create this habitat, and we're really hopeful that in the coming years we'll be able to expand into other areas, as well.

Rachel: I know I've had people contact me in areas where we don't have kits and they're like, “How can we get it here?”

Gio: Haha.

Rachel: So that might be a question we ask you later. Haha.

Gio: Yeah.

Rachel: But why do the habitat kits feature native plants? That seems to be one of the key components of the program.

Gio: Yeah, so it's definitely like a fundamental aspect. It's kind of funny to think about like giving a reason as to why native plants are important, because in my head I'm like, “Well, of course.” But, you know, when you think about it, people are so accustomed to going to big-box stores and trying to incorporate as many plants as possible, flowering or not. But native plants have special adaptations to their local environment. And not only is that due to the climate, but also the native pollinators in the area. Sometimes there's pollinator specialists that use specific plants as a food resource and only use that plant as a food resource. Then you have other pollinators, such as the monarch butterfly—as I will probably bring up quite often—that uses milkweed specifically to lay its eggs, as a caterpillar food resource, and even nectar later in their life. So it's just really an important part.

Gio: And these plants that have, you know, adapted to these regions have also become really culturally significant for peoples in those areas. So a lot of people are aware that sage has kind of entered the market and been overused, and, you know, adopted by like the general public, but it truly is an important plant for Native tribes.

Rachel: Yeah, definitely. And from my understanding, sometimes getting native plants can be difficult to source. Have you guys found that in the program when you're trying to source the plants?

Gio: Yeah, so it definitely depends on the region that you're in. We're really lucky in California—since we're in the floristic province, there's a lot of biodiversity—that there have been nurseries that taken the time to work on getting those seeds and making them available for purchase, either retail or wholesale. And then, of course, other regions that have had trouble finding the exact nurseries that they can work with. But it's definitely something that we're fortunate enough to have a team that's developed the right questions, and, you know, background information that we need to make sure that the plants that we're getting are sourced from a reliable nursery that doesn't use pesticides. Because that's, you know, one of the big points—we don't wanna be introducing pesticides to an environment where the whole point is to be helping pollinators.

Rachel: Yeah, definitely. And the last question here in my follow-up is that it's hard not to think about climate change right now—there's all these massive climate events happening—and it's hard to know, as an individual, like what can we do with like, such a huge issue? Has that affected the Habitat Kit Program at all and how you choose plant species?

Gio: Yeah. In my experience, in California, many are aware that we experience long periods of drought. So because of that, luckily, a lot of our native plants are already drought tolerant, or drought resistant, some say. So we like to incorporate as many of those as possible. And I mentioned biodiversity briefly, but having more biodiverse plants or, an array of plants in our kits, also kind of guarantees a higher likelihood of plant establishment. So when people are taking the time and effort—and it does take, you know, some digging and manpower to get these plants on the ground—we wanna make sure that after all of that work, there's a higher percentage of plants that are growing well into two, three, and hopefully 10 years in the future, because they are well suited for these changing climates, and are kind of used to the temperature differences and water needs that their environment provide.

Matthew: Yeah, I can see how much thought goes into this. It's not just a simple like, “Oh, let's get some plants.”

Gio: Yeah.

Matthew: But what, well, what is a habitat kit?

Gio: Yeah, so, Xerces’ employees kind of try their best to learn about the different plants in the region that would be really beneficial for our pollinators. Certain plants, as I said, serve specific pollinator species, and others are more general use as a resource, or a host, or I guess you can say like shelter for these insects. So after we create the plant list, the Xerces employee that is leading that region, we'll go ahead and reach out to nurseries, make sure that there's plants available that can be grown without pesticides. We want to develop a project proposal so we can learn a little bit more about the people that we're giving these plants to. We wanna make sure that they're able to prepare the land, they have a maintenance plan to make sure that if, in the future, there is a need to, let's say, add a little bit of additional water because of an extended period of drought here in California, there is a way that they can irrigate these plants to ensure that they can carry over through that dry period.

Gio: After that, we like to ask our partners to not use pesticides. Of course, that's kind of the whole point of the program. It can be difficult working with agricultural workers, because they're very accustomed to using pesticides, due to, you know, their needs of having any pests present. But we've—are really happy that we have a lot of resources, and a great pesticide team that can educate these agricultural workers specifically about different ways in which they can attack these issues that they have. Or it might be the case that, “Hey, like let's create a buffer.” Let's plant this hedgerow that we're giving you 60 feet away from your, the edge of your farm—where you do need to continue using pesticides—so that this biodiverse area where pollinators can, you know, use as a food source aren't affected by any wind-traveled pesticides that were applied earlier on their farm.

Gio: But overall, it's a pretty simple program. You know, Xerces provides the free plants to people that are committed to giving their time, and land and, you know, labor in the future. And pollinator habitat is there for, you know, insects to use.

Matthew: Yeah, so it sounds like a habitat kit is basically a bunch of plants, right? Haha.

Gio: Yeah. Haha. Yeah, it's a bunch of plants. That's exactly what the answer could have been, but I went on with that—a long story.

Matthew: No, no, no. It's all right. I'm just trying to picture, if someone were saying, “Oh, can I have a habitat kit?” What, you know—what, what do they get? And the plants vary? Do they? From one region to another, or are they more suited to one habitat type than another?

Gio: So, it depends on the region that someone is interested in. So the California program, because it's the most established program, they actually have different types of kits available. So they have hedgerow kits for riparian areas, which are areas that have more water availability. They have kits that have over 600 plugs, for grassland prairies to create for pollinators. Whereas my program is much smaller. We're targeting residents and we only have one kit with 20 plants, so that people can put in their yards—it's a lot more manageable in size.

Gio: But one big part of having those biodiverse native plants to the area is that they'll, most likely—. Or not most likely. We try our best to find plants that are blooming at different times of year. We have plants blooming early in the winter and springtime, then you have midsummer plants, and then, of course, late fall—which is really important, specifically for the monarch butterfly since it is traveling back after its overwintering season here on the coast of California.

Matthew: Yeah. Wow. I'm thinking 600 plants would cover quite a big area, wouldn't it?

Gio: Yeah.

Matthew: That's why it sounds like that would be going back to the roots of the California program where it was working with farmers, public land managers, tribal lands, and so on.

Gio: I don't know too much about the other programs—specifically on their plant lists—but I know that all of those staff members are, of course, trying to serve the community that they're targeting. In Washington, they do serve residents, but they also are serving public spaces. And then you have Detroit, which my colleague, Stephanie Steele, is targeting urban communities, and those community gardens. So some kits are smaller, some are larger, but it definitely depends on the region. And if that person's interested, then of course they can go on our website, under resources and find habitat kits, and they'll find all the details—nitty gritty information on there.

Matthew: I know something about the kits just because I've been around at Xerces for so long, and so I do know that, you know, like the Santa Fe one was initially targeted at gardens primarily to help build pollinator corridors through urban areas, as opposed to the California one, which was more rural. And then obviously Detroit, that's more urban. So you’re inevitably dealing with very different environments. But it seems like a strength of the program—.

Gio: Oh, for sure.

Matthew: —that it is adapted to the needs of the area. And all of this, I mean, it can't be cheap to have, what, 250,000 plants handed out so far in California?

Gio: Yeah.

Matthew: And tens of thousands, hundreds of thousands elsewhere? So, I mean, where does the funding come from to support this program?

Gio: So each program has its specific funding source. In California, it can be federal or state funded, Or programs like in Santa Fe, that you just mentioned, they have a private funder that is dedicated to increasing pollinator habitat. So those are like the three main branches, right? We have state, federal, and private. But overall too, we just have funding for our staff members through our members, and all the amazing people that are interested in pollinator habitat, as well.

Matthew: And I'm sure that depending on the source, it must influence the types of kits and the—so that's part of the variation as well across the regions, I imagine?

Gio: Yeah, there's different deliverables. Like in California, our state funder really wants to know how many milkweeds we're able to incorporate into land. So that's a particular detail that we want to get from our partners. Once they put their plants in the ground, we ask them to submit what is known as a planting notification form that just lets us know that, okay, we didn't just give you the plants and you left them in the back of your truck. They're in your garden, they're being watered, they seem happy. And hopefully about six months later, we wanna see like, “Are they healthy?” And, “Have you seen any pollinators on your yard?” And that information is used to let our funders know this was successful, and please provide this funding for a couple more years so that we can continue this awesome progress that we were able to reach because of their initial funding.

Matthew: Funders always like to know that their money's being well used.

Gio: Haha.

Matthew: And that's something that Xerces has been great at, is making very good use of the money, and then making sure the funders know. So yeah, that's a certainly important part of it. The other question I have—and you've already mentioned how staff work to develop the lists and source the plants—where do the plants actually come from? Do we just go around the garden centers and see what they've got? Or do we have a more particular way of getting hold of stuff?

Gio: Yeah, it would be really nice if we could go to a big box store and just buy plants off the shelves. But since there are so many plants that we want to give away, and a lot of different regions—. The really important part about Xerces employees reaching out to these nurseries, establishing relationships—. We start off with what is known as a contract grow. So for like, in the typical sense, people every day are going to a retail space, and they can buy plants off the shelf. But because we are requesting like 10,000 plants at a time, these nurseries are like sowing seeds specifically for our program, and are growing them in a specific way (i.e., without pesticides) so that we can distribute these plants healthily to pollinator species. So it's just like a really impressive way to order a lot of plants and make sure that they're there at the time that we need them.

Matthew: Yeah, and I guess another spinoff from that is that we build better relationships with the nurseries. And they also have an opportunity to develop potentially new plant propagation, because I'm sure we go to them and say, “Do you have this?” And it's not something they might normally have. So it strikes me that the native seed industry is another beneficiary of the Habitat Kit Programs, as well.

Gio: Yes. California has been really fortunate to grow—I guess what you could say—with these nurseries. They've been able to further develop their final sanitation skills, which means that they don't have to use pesticides or different herbicides to reduce the presence of these unwanted growing plants or little bugs that are munching away on these plants that are growing. So it's been really great to see that there's nurseries out there that are interested and also equally passionate about reducing their use of pesticides. And then again, California—I can speak for one of our nursery partners, Native West in San Diego. We've been using them for a couple years—I'm using them this year for my kit program—and they're willing to trial some new plants that they haven't been able to grow in the past because we're able to provide that seed for them. And we really get to see, “Is this the plant that can fill a niche that we haven't been able to fill in our kit in the past?” So it's really exciting. It feels very science-y, and I'm like, “Woo-hoo. I'm a part of this whole movement.” And it's definitely a privilege.

Matthew: I also like the fact that you say, “My program.” There's a real sense of—.

Gio: Haha.

Matthew: No, it's not a criticism, it's just like you're so dedicated to this, you know?

Gio: Yeah, no, I—.

Matthew: That's just exciting to see, as well.

Gio: It's a lot of fun, and it has definitely become a part of my personality. And my friends are like, “Hey, you're actually making a big difference.” And I'm like, “Thank you, I like to hear that.” I need a little affirmation every once in a while. Haha.

Matthew: Yeah. Well, you definitely are. Thank you.

Rachel: So earlier you had mentioned that you launched your specific Southern California Habitat Kit Program last year, is that correct? Do you wanna tell us a little bit about that?

Gio: Yeah, so in 2024, it was more of a pilot year—so a lot smaller amount of proposals we accepted. We had about 30 projects in the LA area, targeting like South LA among—some people in the Valley, but primarily we wanted to see what the interest was in the LA region. And then we also had predetermined relationships with the Pala Reservation that is in Northern San Diego County because they had received pollinator kits in the past from the larger California program, and so we gave 30 kits to their residents. And it all turned out really well. So because of that, this year in 2025, I'm excited to say that once proposals open up in June—you can find that on my webpage, on the Xerces website—we're gonna be having a lot more plants available for people to adopt. So instead of 60 kits, I'll have 100 kits to give away. And I'm really looking forward to getting more people excited about introducing pollinator habitat.

Gio: And my target audience includes residents, but even schools that have really small garden areas that they wanna educate, you know, young people about the importance of pollinator species. Or you can think of urban spaces right outside your post office—maybe they'll be dedicated to creating a little patch that has some flowers. So it's a really exciting way to get a small amount of plants in to your yard.

Rachel: That's exciting! I'm happy to hear that you'll have so many more kits available. I know it's a very popular program, so congratulations for all of your hard work in making that happen.

Gio: Thank you.

Rachel: Do you have any specific community partners that you're working with?

Gio: Yeah, so during the pilot year—I get giddy when I get to say it—but we got to work with the LA Zoo, and I thought that was such a really, really cool opportunity. We were able to install two plant kits, so a total of—last year my kits were a little bit smaller—so 32 plants in a children’s part of the zoo. And we were donating some educational signage, so people can learn about the program. I think I mentioned earlier that we have a really cool workbook called X Kids, so people can scan a QR code, and also learn more about what Xerces is doing. So the LA Zoo is one of those really cool partners that hopefully will get to continue this year.

Gio: I also worked with a professor at LA Pierce College in the Valley, she had an architecture course that she was teaching students, and they were able to create a little pollinator trail right outside their school. There was another organization known as Block Stewards, that I had met in the past through my undergraduate, or my graduate experience at UC Irvine, and they kind of recover habitat in like the sidewalk patch, or driving mediums that, you know, typically kind of get forgotten, or it's just grass. And so they get to put a lot more useful habitat for our pollinators there. And I'm really hopeful that this year, since I'll be expanding to a lot more counties in Southern California—including Orange County, Riverside County, San Bernardino County, even up to Santa Barbara—I'll be meeting a lot more partners that we’ll be able to work with in the future.

Rachel: Partners are so important at Xerces. I mean, we couldn't do the work that we do without our partners, so it's amazing to see just the community support and the relationships that you've built in such a short amount of time. It's really astounding. So that's, yeah, it's really great to hear.

Gio: Haha.

Matthew: Yeah. I mean, LA. As you're moving forward—the program in that area—I mean, I have to ask—I mean, we had the catastrophic fires earlier this year. Is that kind of event gonna impact the program at all?

Gio: Yeah, so we just wanna be mindful that that happened. We don't wanna really be insensitive and try to encourage people to restore their front yard before they even, you know, have a place to rest their head again. So, luckily, the larger California program, they're able to give their habitat kits to those that have been—or to areas affected by wildfire. So our plan right now is to reach out to those individuals that do restoration in the LA area. And if they haven't been already reached out to, we highly suggest that if anyone listening knows individuals that are trying to do wildlife restoration and need more plant materials, they're more than welcome to submit a proposal for the California Habitat Kit Program.

Gio: But yeah, it's just definitely a moment where we wanna be aware that there are people that have been affected, including people that are very close to Xerces—past partners, Ambassadors, individuals that are, you know, donating to Xerces—you know, they have more things to worry about at this point in time. So we're just hopeful that we could be there, and, you know, offer some support.

Rachel: Yeah, definitely. Yeah, we're all thinking about everyone who has been impacted by those fires. On a positive note, are there any success stories that you would like to share that have resulted either from your Habitat Kit Program or one of the other ones? Are there any that kind of stick out to you?

Gio: Yeah. I was really fortunate that my colleagues from Sacramento flew down and did some site visits earlier, or later last year. And I met an agave farmer, her name's Ophelia, and she's received habitat kits for many years now. And we toured her agave farm, and it could have easily been a monoculture, but she knew the importance of pollinators, she understands the complexity of, you know, the environment. And she's installed pollinator hedgerow kits, she's installed garden kits, so she has just a beautiful array of plants flowering throughout the year, alongside these beautiful agave plants that she farms. And you could just really tell how much she cares about the environment, how she wants to incorporate conservation. So that's one success story that I love sharing.

Gio: We also had a partner in San Diego, as well. Her name's Chelsea, she works with the local school and a bunch of community members to restore these, I guess you could say shared pieces of land that the children use to get to school. So kind of like an abandoned sidewalk area. And she's planted some beautiful kits there, as well. Now they're flowering. She has interpretive signage there from Xerces and other organizations teaching kids about the importance of pollinators. And, of course, it kind of makes the area feel safer, it makes the area more beautiful, and it really encourages people to get outdoors and learn about pollinators. So that one is one of my favorite stories, as well.

Gio: And then last year I was able to help Kaitlin Haase, who leads the Santa Fe Pollinator Trail program, which is now the overall like New Mexico program, because she's had so much interest where she's saturated the land with all these pollinator plants and is now reaching out to restoration practitioners in northern New Mexico where they can incorporate habitat kits, as well.

Gio: So those are the three that come to mind off the top of my head, but of course, there's many more where, I'm sure, other coordinators throughout the country can say, “You know, this is the best thing that I've seen that's come out of my program.” And I'm really hopeful that I'll be able to have partners of my own that I can share these stories in the future.

Matthew: Yeah, no, I love hearing the anecdotes like that. The idea of those school walking routes—just, I thought that was great. Anyway, so thank you. We're wrapping up, coming to the end of our conversation now.

Gio: Sad. Haha.

Matthew: I know doesn't time fly? So we just have our last two normal questions, which we ask everybody, which is—and the first of those is: what inspired you to work in invertebrate conservation?

Gio: Yeah. A lot of people at Xerces already know that invertebrates, bugs in general, were not my thing growing up. I very much was that kid running away from insects flying around at the lunch tables, specifically the June beetle. That darn green reflective thing can just really hit you on the back of the head, and it's quite intimidating. Haha. But I really got my passion from plants. Both in my undergrad and graduate school courses I was able to learn about the coastal sage scrub system here in California. And I love being outdoors, and you really learn that pollinators and plants are codependent—you need both of them to survive. And by creating these beautiful, you know, landscapes with native plants, you're inviting all these incredible invertebrates to use, to pollinate, have shelter. So that's kind of how I got my way there.

Gio: And many say the monarch butterfly is kind of like the gateway bug to get interested in invertebrates, and I have to concur. But it was also a moment in undergrad—I was probably 19 years old, which is way too late to be seeing your first bumble bee—because that is the first time, I swear, I saw a bumble bee in, you know, the Orange County, LA area. It's quite daunting to see how big they can get and how loud they can be. But they're very charismatic. And from then on—like I love seeing bumble bees. Maybe I just wasn't looking for them initially, but now in my own personal garden, I happily get to see them at the beginning of spring and into summer. So yeah, and kind of just spreading that joy and like desire to learn about more invertebrates with the public. So that's been really helpful. I can, you know, meet those kids that are afraid of bugs and get on their level, because I've been there, and it's been a treat for sure.

Rachel: I love that story. I was talking to someone the other day and I told them that I felt a little bit like an imposter, because as we do these podcast episodes and interviews with all these amazing people, and everybody on—like so many staff members at Xerces, all of their stories really kind of started at childhood of like always digging over and loving insects. And I'm like, “I feel like an imposter,” because that wasn't me either.

Gio: Yeah.

Rachel: I wasn't necessarily super scared of them, but I was not—. Even as an adult, I wasn't like, “Yay, insects,” until I really came to Xerces. It was more about like getting that message out to people, and just the challenge of getting people to not be afraid of bugs, but realize how important they are, and being on the outreach and education side of it. So hearing your story, I've always wondered, I'm like, “I need to talk to Gio and ask him like what got him there? What inspired him?” But now that we're hooked, it's like we are hooked for life, right?

Gio: Yeah.

Rachel: Talking to everybody about like, “Hey, did you see this bumble bee over here?” And now we're those people. But it's—everybody comes to it at a different place, and that's why I love that question. It’s that it's not too late. You could be 60 years old and hate bugs or be afraid of them, and we can inspire you to love them. Haha.

Gio: Yeah. And now my friends are like, “So instead of stopping us a couple times during a hike for plant identification, now we're stopping twice as many times because there's insects on these plants?” I'm like, “Yes!” Like there's so much we don't know about this world, and I am so excited to tell my friends that are just in marketing, or you know, finance, I'm like, “There's so much more to it than like the corporate world.” Like we get to be in nature, and it's such a blessing. Like it's really, really fun.

Rachel: Definitely. It's like putting on a new pair of sunglasses, and this whole world opens up to you that you never knew existed right in front of you. It's so cool.

Matthew: Exactly. Yeah, I often give people that warning that once you start looking, you're gonna see stuff. And when you see stuff, you're gonna get obsessed.

Gio: Yes.

Matthew: And it's just this kind of spiral, but a spiral going up, not down.

Gio: Exactly.

Rachel: Yep. There's hope for everybody out there. Haha.

Matthew: Yeah.

Rachel: So our last question. If you could see any bug—bug being a very loose term for invertebrate—in the wild, what would it be? And “the wild” is literally anything outside of captivity.

Gio: I would say—. So there's a bunch of amazing invertebrates throughout the world, I'm sure, but I've been really fortunate to spend time in the Ballona Wetlands, that's in the LA area, and it's a habitat for the El Segundo blue butterfly. It's a very, very small butterfly—similar to the Xerces blue, our namesake—and they only—their host plant is Eriogonum parvifolium, or seacliff buckwheat. So I've been able to like work alongside it, and plant new plants, and participate in restoration, but I've never seen the blue, itself. So one day, I hope, in the future where I get to continue doing restoration, I'll get to, you know, actually see one in person. I'm even on the El Segundo Blue Butterfly Coalition on behalf of Xerces, and these are all organizations that are trying their best to restore habitat for the blue butterfly, but I haven't seen one. So when that happens, I will let you all know. Haha. I would be very excited—it will be on social media for sure. Haha.

Rachel: Oh, that's wonderful. I think I've become very fond of just little—there's so many different types of little blue butterflies, and I think they're ones that can be a little sneaky. They're not as charismatic as the monarch, or, you know, swallowtails, but they're just so shiny and beautiful, and yeah. My fingers are crossed for you that you get to see one of those blue butterflies. Please take a photo and send it to us.

Gio: Yes, I will. Thank you.

Rachel: Well, Gio, this has been really wonderful to hear about the Habitat Kit Program that you've developed. And I'm excited to see that—to hear that it will be growing, and to see what happens this next year, and all these partnerships that you've created. So thank you for taking the time today to be with us, and share all this great information. And it's been so nice to get to know you a little bit more, as well. So thank you so much.

Gio: First, it was a pleasure—thanks for having me. My little project here in Southern California. Haha.

Rachel: Haha. Not so little though!

Gio: Haha. It's growing, it's growing.

Rachel: Yes.

Matthew: It’s growing, and it's going to have a huge impact, as well.

Rachel: Yep. Definitely.

Matthew: That's awesome.

Gio: Fingers crossed.

Matthew: Thank you.

Rachel: Bug Banter is brought to you by the Xerces Society, a donor-based nonprofit that is working to protect insects and other invertebrates—the life that sustains us.

Rachel: If you’re already a donor, thank you so much. If you want to support our work go to xerces.org/donate. For information about this podcast and for show notes go to xerces.org/bugbanter.