Cycling Meets Swiss Precision: The Bravur Story with Magnus Äppelryd and Johan Sahlin

Uncover the symbiosis between intricate design and the cherished craft of watchmaking as we sit down with Magnus Äppelryd and Johan Sahlin, the Swedish visionaries from Bravur. Our discussion reveals the inner workings of a microbrand's foray into the bustling American luxury watch market. Through tales of watch fairs and a robust watch enthusiast community, our guests illuminate the delicate dance of establishing a connection with stateside consumers and the undeniable impact of exceptional customer service practices like offering free returns.

This episode is a journey through time and design, where passion for cycling meets the meticulous world of horology. Magnus and Johan recount their personal story, where a shared love for two wheels not only cemented their friendship but also gave life to Bravur's Grand Tour Chronograph Series. Listen as we unwrap the creative process behind their collections, the cultural resonance of cycling within their designs, and the strategic timing of watch releases to align with the pulsating heartbeats of major cycling events.

Finally, we venture into the future with Bravur's ongoing quest for innovation, discussing their new project that marries the nostalgia of a vintage Volvo team car with the adrenaline of European cycling races. Our guests share their triumphs and hurdles in crafting lightweight, durable watches that serve the needs of professional cyclists, reflecting on the role of avant-garde materials and the spirit of perseverance that propels a boutique brand forward. Join us for an episode that's not just about telling time, but about the stories, ambitions, and relentless pursuit of excellence that define a truly remarkable watch brand.

Check out Bravur Watches:
https://bravurwatches.com
https://www.instagram.com/bravurwatches/

Transcript

Blake Rea: 0:00

All right, everybody, welcome to another episode of Lonely Wrist. So today it is just half of the Lonely Wristers and we have Braavur showing up from Sweden. Introduce yourself, guys.

Magnus Äppelryd: 0:14

Yeah, hello, nice to be here. My name is Magnus Eppelried. I'm one of the founders of the brand.

Johan Sahlin: 0:22

Yes, and I'm Johan Salin, and I'm also one of the founders and owner of Bravo.

Blake Rea: 0:30

So nice to be here. Thank you for coming. I'm glad you guys showed up in numbers. This is the first ever. Usually it's me and Justin interviewing people, but now you guys are showing up with strength in numbers, so it's kind of awesome.

Johan Sahlin: 0:42

Yeah, we're outnumbering you right now, yeah yeah, that's, all right, so yeah, nice to be here that might compensate for our english then, uh you guys, yeah, all right I'm sure we always say that we were.

Magnus Äppelryd: 0:56

We're very jealous about people having english as their mother tongue. It's so much easier, but we'll try our best to express ourselves anyway you guys are doing fine.

Blake Rea: 1:08

So I obviously we met before we met in, yeah, in california, and that was when I was exposed to to your brand and I I think you guys have really something special. So, thank you, the honor is mine as well to for you guys to be hosted here, so what was that?

Magnus Äppelryd: 1:24

the first time you saw our brand or did it was, it was so like there's a huge problem with America.

Blake Rea: 1:32

Um, obviously for the there's a huge micro brand scene, like everybody wants something unique on their wrist.

Magnus Äppelryd: 1:38

Yeah.

Blake Rea: 1:39

And so the only outlet that you guys really have to to get your watches in front of people's eyes is events like wind up and events like intersect, where, where you know, micro brands will show up, showcase their portfolio, I mean, and it's really hard for us to to like blindly purchase something. Um, there's kind of what we call like an effort number here in america, um, and that depends on on different you know, different custom, like different, different people. But you know, for me, it's really hard for me to spend more than 500 without I, without me even seeing a watch in person, you know so. If it's 500 or below, um, you know so. Unfortunately, that leaves you guys kind of in this weird little like mark, because most of your watches, I think they start at like 800 and go up to like three. You know around 3000.

Blake Rea: 2:31

So yeah, it leaves you guys in this weird little like like pocket, you know yeah, and that's why the wind-up events are so great.

Magnus Äppelryd: 2:39

I think we we usually come to the San Francisco event and and also the New York event, and it's it's a fantastic opportunity for people to to see the watches live from a lot, a lot, a lot of brands, of course.

Blake Rea: 2:55

So I was looking for you guys. So I was at Chicago this past year and. I was like I was looking for you guys here. I didn't see you guys, unfortunately.

Blake Rea: 3:04

No, no, and I was like I was looking for you guys here I didn't see you guys, unfortunately no, no um, but but no, I think I think san francisco and, uh, in new york are great, great little events and I I really hope that they'll do something here, because I live in las vegas, so las vegas is is a huge, huge, huge watch community. Um, you know, so I'm working, like after I have a brand that comes on, they'll come on and say, hey, like what can we do to get involved in the vegas scene? Like we want to come to vegas, like we want people to get our watches on their wrists in vegas, like what can we do? Yeah, and we're, you know, we're working on creating a platform for for brands like you to to be able to showcase your watches in vegas so stay tuned for that.

Johan Sahlin: 3:47

yeah, for sure. Also, we uh really noticed that the micro brand scene or the or the micro brand community in us is really strong compared to europe. I mean, we don't have any bigger fairs in Europe to participate in. We had like one smaller one in Stockholm this autumn, which was great, and then obviously I have the big ones in Switzerland, but otherwise we have to turn to US to be able to participate in a larger micro-brand fair, which is kind of strange share micro brand fair, which is kind of strange.

Blake Rea: 4:28

Yeah, I think this is a great market to do it in because the watch, the watch scene, is so strong here, like everybody is so passionate about watches, at least within the industry or the scene. The collectors there's tons of collectors here. Um, there's tons of tons of wealth and tons of wealth of knowledge. People know what they want, people know what they're looking for. People can see right through the micro brands that aren't doing something unique. They can kind of just skip right over them and so you have a. It makes it a little easier for brands like you who are doing something unique, to stand out. You know, from other brands that are essentially just reissuing a vintage diver, or you know taking inspiration from the 50s or 60s and you know, just creating a whole diver centric portfolio where, you know, because that is a low hanging fruit, you know, for some collectors.

Johan Sahlin: 5:24

So yeah, I think you guys are in a good spot. Yeah, that was a bit. We were struggling a bit or a bit hesitant also in the start, how it would work out to sell products that are quite expensive after all without people having to see them and feel them in the hands. But we were pretty surprised that, yeah, it works out great. People are getting used to buying really expensive stuff over over the internet and get them shipped, and most companies also offer, like free returns and we do as well so you can actually have a look at the watch and try it on, and if you're on a tap with it, you can just just ship it back. So it actually works quite well, also for a bit more expensive watches.

Magnus Äppelryd: 6:18

And we, we, yeah, we, we do. We mainly sell abroad as well. We, I mean the U? S is our biggest market, so, um, most of our watches are or, yeah, almost all the watches are, are bought unseen, so to speak yeah yeah you guys don't have any um like retail fronts?

Blake Rea: 6:38

do you like any brick and mortars? Is it just 100 online?

Magnus Äppelryd: 6:42

yeah, basically, basically that.

Blake Rea: 6:45

I think that's the best way to do it, as long as you give people the opportunity, the platform which you do, to see, try and enjoy your watches. What else can us consumers ask for?

Johan Sahlin: 6:58

When we started it was like 10, 11 years ago when we launched our first collection then we actually had a few retailers we were sold, for instance, at barnes in the us which were like a great start for us. But, yeah, after a few years, we took the decision to only sell online, both to have better control over the pricing of the watches, but also as it takes really a lot of time to be out on fairs to promote your watches to physical stores and also, in a way, it's easy to drown in the store with all the other brands. With big brands, the staff really need to be educated and know what to present for your brand. So, yeah, we didn't really think it was worth it, to be honest, to be in brick and mortar stores.

Blake Rea: 8:00

Not only that, but there's really a hidden problem with that and you're starting to see brands take it back.

Blake Rea: 8:05

it's like like remove this problem, but here in in america there's been a resurgence of brands opening their own boutiques because let's just say your, your, your watches are positioned in in you know, barney's right there, where there's clothes and other things right and um, and your brand is really just kind of their existing. You know, a lot of these brands now are kind of as long as they have the market share to build their own brick and mortar, then they're doing it Because not only do they create that experience but they also own the customer.

Blake Rea: 8:39

You know, let's just say for example, somebody buys a braver from barney's. Um, then they're a barney's customer. They're not really a braver customer. You know, in the weirdest way, um, they own one of your watches and they possess a part of you, but, um, you know you don't have much means to to communicate with that customer unless something goes wrong with the watch.

Blake Rea: 9:00

You know, then they're like hey, you know, so um yeah so, yeah, you see a lot of brands that are establishing these presences now to to eliminate that that kind of like huge gap in the market, because that's where the long-term value is, when you, when you possess that customer or you, you have a relationship with your customer, you know um, and you know they can get into the future collections. Or you know we'll talk about that here soon. And you know they can get into the future collections or you know we'll talk about that here soon.

Johan Sahlin: 9:27

But you know, they can kind of progress through your portfolio with you you know, so yeah, absolutely, and we, I mean it's really important that, uh, to sell what should not only be about like one time buy, it should really be to establish like a long-term relationship and to have a good contact with, with your audience, so to say. And, as you pointed out, if you sell through physical stores, then you don't have control over that part.

Blake Rea: 9:56

Yeah, there's, there's, there's a big portion. So you guys may not know my past, but, um, but I sold, I sold 30, 30 brands at a retailer, and so I was. I mean we sold everything like we sold. We sold rolex, we sold patek, I mean we sold jlc, we sold zenit, I mean we sold panera, we sold every, every watch brand you could ever think of. And there's a huge portion of the market here that not only do they see it online, they get their first exposure to it online, but then they come into a store to try it on, to get hands-on with it, because this is something that you're wearing on your wrist, it's something that's always in contact with your body. There's a huge portion of a feeling that goes into it, not only like emotion, but actually, you know, everybody really cares about size, proportions, you know, like like thickness, I mean all these things are really important. They kind of go back towards the bigger picture of does this watch fit? You know me.

Blake Rea: 11:00

Right so.

Magnus Äppelryd: 11:01

Right, yeah, definitely yeah, for sure.

Blake Rea: 11:05

So tell us about howver got started and tell us about, like your early days yes, you know I mentioned we.

Magnus Äppelryd: 11:13

It's like, uh, yeah, 10, 11 years ago, since we started the brand we. We registered the company in 2011 and the first collection was launched in 2013. So it's quite a few years now that we've been running um and I mean, yeah, we've been friends for many years and we for many years we discussed starting our own brand, uh, which eventually led to brother um, and the first collection was a Swiss-made quartz model, which launched in 2013. And then, since then, we launched one more quartz model, right, johan Until, we jumped over to our first mechanical watch, which was back in 2017. Our first mechanical watch, which was back in 2017, and that's also the when we started assembling the watches in sweden instead of having them swiss made. So we still use only swiss made movements, but we assemble all the watches in sweden with our own watchmaker.

Blake Rea: 12:24

Tell us about some of the inspiration. Obviously, brands just don't start overnight. There had to have been a huge gap in your eyes in the market, so tell us. What is it that made you feel like you had to start? Brava?

Johan Sahlin: 12:42

Well, I think I mean neither me nor magnus are like watch guys from from the start. We have both the background from industrial design, so we're working with anything from like medical devices to outdoor products. That's like our daily work back then. So it was not obvious that we should start a watch brand. We really wanted to create our own brand, but we were not sure about in which niche it should be. So we discussed anything from like bags to shoes and so on, shoes and so on.

Johan Sahlin: 13:28

But it was first when Magnus was about to buy a watch for himself, when we were out looking and kind of observing that the watch market seemed to be quite conservative, both in terms of design but also how it was communicated, like really traditional yet fighter images for the male customers and mother of pearl and sparkling diamonds for the women, which we thought were kind of outdated. So I think that is like really the spark when we started to discuss what about moving into the watch market? And back then it was really rare with micro brands. At that point when we started to discuss it, I don't even think like Daniel Wellington had even started yet. I mean it was not that common as it is today, but we really wanted to create a design-driven watch brand with a good value for money and a more modern communication about the brand, but since then it has, of course, evolved quite a bit, yeah, but I think that's quite natural also that you need to try out different directions before you find your niche in the end.

Blake Rea: 14:50

Yeah, you guys. Something that's really unique about your brand is you really stick to like a specific sport. Obviously, it doesn't take long for a consumer to go to your website and see you guys are huge into cycling. For a consumer to go to your website and see you guys are are huge into into cycling, um, you know what is it about cycling? Um, that fuels the brand.

Magnus Äppelryd: 15:11

Well, that that was actually in, in one way, the starting starting point for the brand, because that's how we got to know each other. We were both me and Joe, and we're racing mountain bike back in the in the 90s. Uh, we were competing every weekend and we were like rivals like rivals back then, uh, but eventually we became friends. So, yeah, in one way, it was the starting point of the brand, uh, and it's so. We've been riding, we are still cycling quite a lot and following the sport sport of cycling, uh, so it's a big passion for both of us, um, and yeah, for many years, we discussed that it would be nice to combine our two passions for watches and cycling in in one way or another. And finally, in 2020, we launched our first cycling-inspired collection, called the Grand Tour Chronograph Series. So that was really the starting point of what do you say? Yeah, we started to develop or turn the brand more and more towards cycling and, in one way, finding our own unique niche.

Magnus Äppelryd: 16:29

Um, we find a lot of inspiration from the sport. It's a. It's a sport, uh, with a very long history and a lot of tradition, a lot of uh, what to say, like secret codes or how do you say it like you know, for example, we have one the rider with the race number 13 turns the race number upside down to counteract any bad luck. That's a like people have done it for 100 years. Yeah, so there are a lot of that type of um symbols and there are a lot of colors and patterns and stuff to to pick inspiration from. Basically, yeah, yeah, no, I mean that that's.

Blake Rea: 17:16

I mean it's actually quite cool how you guys have kind of you know, put yourself in this, in this niche, and you know, I mean I, I, I would think, and it seems like you know you guys have kind of you know, positioned your brand and it also seems like it's really an underserved niche, you know, because I'm sure cyclists you know modern cyclists maybe use a smart watch, um, you know, for their heartbeat and all this and yada yada. But the fact is like you guys are really taking inspiration from not only the uh, the use case of of a cyclist, but you know some of the colors in in, you know some of the uniforms, like they're really kind of like high pop, high contrast, like they stick out on the road Like um, so you guys are not only taking inspiration from that, but, um, it's a cool.

Magnus Äppelryd: 18:07

It's a really cool niche, I think for sure yeah, yeah, thanks, and I mean it's a lot about style as well. You know, having, I mean, you're supposed to have a white socks with a certain length of the of the sock, the right length of the sleeve, and so there are so many, so many aspects of this sport and it's a lot about style. And I would think that I mean back in the days, all the riders used a nice, nice watch, but, as you say, nowadays nobody actually needs a watch because you have a bike, computer monitoring monitoring the speed and the hot, uh, heartbeat and everything uh yeah but, but.

Magnus Äppelryd: 18:48

But we still think it fits very well for the sport.

Blake Rea: 18:52

I basically I agree and, um, you know your grant. I think your grand tour, to me, your grand tour collection, is probably the most unique of your collection. I could be wrong, um, it's just my opinion, but it's it's actually the collection from your brand that sticks out the most um and excites me the most so um, yeah, that's good there and yeah, for sure, it's the.

Magnus Äppelryd: 19:20

yeah, it's the. It's the collection that stands out the most and together with our new Team Heritage series, I would say, which is our second series inspired by cycling, so we're continuing our path within the sport of cycling, basically.

Blake Rea: 19:42

Yeah, tell us about the team heritage. So, for let me catch some of the viewers up, because obviously we've had this discussion before the podcast, but they are actually dropping a watch. Uh, I need to look at the calendar, obviously, but this is going to be posted at the day or a few days after their newest release, which which is the Team Heritage, which is a cycling-inspired three-hander. Obviously, you guys have kind of chosen different teams You've got Team Renault, you've got Team Mercer and then you've got Team Peugeot. Peugeot, peugeot, peugeot, yeah, peugeot, peugeot, yeah. So, yeah, peugeot, yeah, peugeot.

Johan Sahlin: 20:25

Yeah.

Blake Rea: 20:27

So yeah, tell us about the collection and thanks for launching it with us.

Johan Sahlin: 20:32

Yeah, I mean the Grand Tour collection.

Johan Sahlin: 20:36

It's all about the performance and the thrill of racing, while the Team Heritage is more looking back to the golden era of cycling, when it was even more important to have a nice style, a nice haircut and so on, and also that all the riders, basically, were wearing a watch back then.

Johan Sahlin: 21:03

So the Team Heritage is taking inspiration, picking up inspiration from classic cycling teams between the 1950s to 1980s, and also the format of the case. It's kind of squarish design of the case with quite thick, thick, solid steel surfaces, making it, yeah, being well suited to where we're, also on on the bike, um, but we really take all the teams back from the days as a source of inspiration for this new collection. So initially, we will then launch three teams the Peugeot, as you say, mercier and Renault team and they all have very strong colors and patterns on the team clothing, which we have interpreted into the design of the watches. So I think it's really good to have a strong and clear source of inspiration that can act as kind of a guiding star for us when we are developing new designs and, um, yeah, yeah, and the ambition is to.

Magnus Äppelryd: 22:35

I mean, as you mentioned, we're starting with three different teams and the ambition is to add more teams eventually. So it's a, it's a really. I mean. I think it's a cooler source of inspiration than we even thought from the beginning, because there are so many cool teams, iconic teams with jerseys with strong colors and patterns and stuff that makes us come up with designs that we would never have come up with otherwise. I think.

Blake Rea: 23:08

I really dig the Renault watch. Like I love the pattern that you guys have and it takes a lot of inspiration from the older jerseys. And yeah, I mean it is a good looking watch. It's a bold watch. It's a bold move and um and then, yeah, I like the peugeot, yeah yeah, yeah, which is a bit more clean and more graphical in its expression.

Magnus Äppelryd: 23:41

So the the peugeot jersey was all white with a black checker pattern. So that model is more clean or graphical in its expression, but still it's got, I think, a quite unique look, because that's a really important point for us to create unique designs and not create something that looks like something else on the market. Basically, we want to create our own strong visual language, so to speak.

Blake Rea: 24:20

Yeah, and you know, a lot of times you kind of you can kind of corner yourselves when you're doing these types of limited edition or you know these really high design centric time pieces, because at some point when you over design a watch, it it it's not wearable. You know, at least for for for my eyes. You know a lot of people when they buy a watch they focus on versatility you know, yeah.

Blake Rea: 24:47

So you kind of have this balance of like. Like, for example, the Renault, I mean mean, and even the mercer, like they, they really pop on your wrist but they're not over designed, if that makes sense. But then you've got. You've got. You know, the pj um I'm I swear I'm gonna mess that up every time, but it's a tricky name, yeah, but. But. But this watch, like you know, you would never know, just from looking at it, like, where its inspiration is, because it is a truly wearable everyday watch.

Magnus Äppelryd: 25:25

Because of the white dial, yeah, the black indices, I mean the really yeah, that's actually a really important point as well that you're that you're mentioning here that, I mean, even though we are definitely driven by cycling we are inspired by cycling and very passionate about it uh, you should still be able to wear the watch even if you're not into cycling. I mean, it should still be a nice watch. So so, in general, uh, we work with quite subtle details, uh pick up like patterns and stuff that, if you are into cycling, you can spot these details and understand the reference uh, but if you're not, uh, it's still a nice watch and something you can wear in your everyday life so give us I was just gonna say give us.

Blake Rea: 26:14

I was just going to say give us a little taste. So you started off with these three teams. What other teams are you looking at to expand the portfolio? Ooh, you don't have to answer. You don't have to answer. I don't want to. I don't want to put you on the spot but no, no, we have.

Magnus Äppelryd: 26:33

We have one team that is already finished. It's called St Raphael. We don't have the launch date set yet. Johan, right, no probably next year.

Johan Sahlin: 26:49

The launch date for the Team Heritage was set to the 2nd of April, which is just some days before the start of a big Spring Classic race called Paris-Roubaix, so most likely the add-ons will be launched at the start of the Spring Classics next year. That is the plan currently.

Blake Rea: 27:13

So you have a date in mind that you want to wrap it all around, and I'm assuming, I'm assuming and this you know. So we've talked, we've talked with other brands before and obviously, are these, are these like licensed, like did you guys have to go through like a huge licensing thing to to get, or how?

Magnus Äppelryd: 27:34

does no okay, okay, so so they I mean so they are not connected to the teams, uh, in any way, and the teams doesn't exist anymore, uh, but I mean when we, when we started working on the collection, I mean the the dream for us would be to be able to use actual footage of the teams. There are are so much cool pictures from back then, but obviously it's quite hard to get the rights to use them, and so we are picking up colors, textures, patterns and stuff from the teams, but they are not connected to the teams or licensed in any way. And that's I mean the naming of the models. They are also like a discrete way of what do you say, indicating what teams we are inspired by. So all the models have a three letter name. So we have the pu, uh mer and the ren. So those ref.

Magnus Äppelryd: 28:43

The reference is that it within cycling, all the cycling teams get a, get a official uh three letter code for the team, which the International Cycling Union decides, the three-letter code for the team. So that's a nod to the original teams, basically. So those three letters.

Johan Sahlin: 29:14

So we will not actually call it like reno or perso.

Blake Rea: 29:18

It will be called rem, peu and so on to to yeah, navigate around copyright issues I um so whenever obviously, like I was looking through the collection uh, before the podcast and I clicked into your little folders and I was like I was like they can't. Uh, before the podcast, and I clicked into your little folders and I was like I was like they can't be calling a watch mer, like what the hell does that?

Blake Rea: 29:40

mean you know and then I and I was like, and then I I looked at your you know your document here, um, and then, and then it made sense to me, you know, obviously, because I'm not a cyclist no, but, but, but. But I think you guys slipped up here on this document, because at the very bottom of this document I see a watch that is not in the document. What is that about? Hmm, what's that? It looks, I'm not sure. Uh, it looks like the PEU, but it looks like it is in carbon or ceramic.

Magnus Äppelryd: 30:17

No, no, that's actually the PEU. So all the models come either in a steel case or a black PVD case. So, that's why you have not seen all the variants yet.

Blake Rea: 30:31

Okay, that's why.

Magnus Äppelryd: 30:34

So there will be a variety of strap alternatives, of course, uh, but also the the choice between a stainless uh, what is it like? A raw steel case or a pvd, black pvd case?

Blake Rea: 30:49

so that's why I was zooming into it like trying to like that is a good looking watch, like that exact configuration with the gray strap. Pvd case Woo.

Magnus Äppelryd: 31:02

Looks good. Yeah, it's cool. It's cool Actually.

Blake Rea: 31:05

Tell us about. So, tell us about the Swedish soul, swiss heart, kind of thing. Like you know, you guys have kind of coined this little phrase that you, that, you, that you print on all your watches.

Johan Sahlin: 31:17

Um, tell us how that came to be, because that's a very bold way to say you guys are swedish, but it's also a very bold way to say you're making swiss watches yeah, I mean, as we mentioned, we are doing all uh, all assembling in sweden, as we have a watchmaker here in our workshop where we are building all the watches per customer order actually, and all the movements are Swiss-made. So we thought that would be a little bit different compared to the classical Swiss-made version or made in Sweden. I mean, we could put made in Sweden, but we think this describes the combination of our company in a better way. So the Swiss heart, which is representing the movement, obviously, and the soul is Swedish, the mentality, the ethos, and and so is Swedish. So I think that's a little nice detail that sums up the company in a quite good way.

Blake Rea: 32:22

I, I love it. So obviously there I have a few questions that kind of segue from that.

Blake Rea: 32:29

So, obviously, like when you're making a watch within your your you guys are, I'm assuming, both swedish. You guys are both native swedish, yes and um, so obviously there has to be some association with it and these countries set and we've talked about this on some of the other podcasts, but these countries set, uh, criterias that have to be met. Um, you know, for you, you guys to get, like the, the moniker Swedish, swedish made. So what is that for? For Sweden?

Johan Sahlin: 33:04

I know we looked it up back in the day, so I don't have the exact phrase, but it's like the last major step when the final product is taking its shape, something like that. So from a legal perspective, we could put Made in Sweden on the watch as the final assembly and testing and everything is done in Sweden. So that would be fine. So it's not as in Switzerland, where a certain percentage of the cost needs to be produced in Switzerland and so on. So from a legal perspective it would be okay. But we source the components from different parts of the world. Of course the movement is like the cost driver, but a lot of the main part of the components are produced in in asia, the, the leather is mainly from sweden and so on.

Blake Rea: 33:59

So it comes from different places around the world obviously, um, I mean first of all, sweden is is a beautiful country. For people who have never been, you should totally go. I spent quite a lot of time myself personally in Stockholm and um, and something that you see around Sweden, at least spending time in Sweden is.

Blake Rea: 34:21

Everybody and every brand is proud to be Swedish like a hundred percent, you know so and and and in Sweden is obviously a country that takes a very strong sense of pride in design. So how has being Swedish influenced the brand? I know that sounds so weird, but from an American perspective, the first thing that comes to mind from Swedish. I think you guys are already going to know what I'm going to say. Ikea are already going to know what I'm going to say, um, ikea, but yeah, you know so. So even in american, american minds, sweden has has a really strong design, uh, like heritage. So how has being swedish influenced the brand?

Magnus Äppelryd: 35:09

difficult question. Joan actually grew up in the small town where IKEA was founded.

Johan Sahlin: 35:16

Okay, yeah, but all my everyone in my family was working at IKEA, including me, so yeah, Wow, wow. And my mother were designing fabrics at IKEA as well. So, yeah, we have a strong connection to. Ikea, but I think we have a good answer there.

Magnus Äppelryd: 35:45

No, but I mean, if we look at how we started back in 2013, I think our design and the look of our watches were more Swedish back then, more minimalistic. But I mean the last few years we have, I wouldn't say that we represent the typical Swedish aesthetic nowadays or Swedish design. But I mean, yeah, we put a lot of effort into details and maybe that's part of our Swedish heritage. I think there's a very big focus on fine details and also materials within the Swedish design tradition.

Johan Sahlin: 36:30

And I think one really important part is to find the right balance between being too loud and bold versus something you want to wear on every day, For instance the Persho version on the new Team Heritage is inspired by this really bright yellow and black and white pattern on the jersey.

Johan Sahlin: 37:02

No Renault, yeah Renault. Sorry, If you're trying that pattern and colors directly to the whole dial, it would be way too much. So that is an example of finding the balance. So instead we put it in like in a lower layer so it creates like a nice illusion that it's floating a bit, but it also calms down this, this pattern.

Blake Rea: 37:22

so maybe this can be a representation of the scandinavian way of finding like a good balance between making it interesting but not too much yeah, when, because when I think about swedish design um, maybe it's just because I've been to sweden, but you know, I think ultra modern, you know. I think about like, like sustainability, um you know, and then I, I ignore the fact that IKEA furniture is made to shit, but besides the point, but, but no, I mean you think a lot about sustainability, you think a lot about design, you think a lot about the material use, and then, yeah, I mean just that DNA, that that Swedish DNA that defines what it is to be Swedish. I don't know what that feels like, but I've seen it and I've experienced it.

Magnus Äppelryd: 38:19

Yeah, yeah, and I also think I mean it's a lot about quality. I think as well Because we noticed that we I mean when we started again when we started the brand. We noticed when we spoke with like Again, when we started the brand. We noticed when we spoke with American press and magazines and stuff or people in general Sweden, despite being a very small country, it seems like people have a good image of Sweden and products from Sweden, both when it comes to quality and and design.

Johan Sahlin: 38:56

So yeah, or maybe they are mixing it up with Switzerland yeah, it could be that's very, very common.

Magnus Äppelryd: 39:05

No, I um I.

Blake Rea: 39:07

I will say I um I. I just came back from Switzerland three weeks ago and you know, obviously I was going there and I was touring a bunch of factories. I mean, some of the people that are listening probably already know but I was at Zenith, I was at Panerai, I was at Bouvet, I was actually with Ferlin Mari, which is a good friend of mine, andrea and then I went to IWC and so we went to all these like really kind of like iconic swiss brands, um and and you know, for some of the people out there that that follow our channel, obviously I've been doing a lot with uh, with jj, uh, and and so, yeah, I mean I I would like to see more watch brands coming from Sweden. Like, what do we have to do to get more Swedish watch brands? You know, or at least you know.

Johan Sahlin: 40:04

So, yeah, I mean, we don't have a long history in watchmaking in Sweden, so of course, ultimately for us it would be great to source everything in Sweden. So, of course, ultimately for us it would be great to source everything in Sweden, but we don't have manufacturers of like sapphires or dials or stuff like that. So the easy way of course to contact like a Swiss manufacturer who can produce the watches for you. So I guess that is also why most micro brands are either Swiss made or, yeah, no name, yeah, asian, no origin on them.

Johan Sahlin: 40:43

And, as mentioned, we also started with the Swiss made watches, but of course they were also produced in Asia. All the components and the final assembly was done in Switzerland. And we've been working with a lot of product development projects where you source the products directly in Asia. So we thought, why pay a lot of money for somebody else to source your production in Asia? Somebody else to source your production in Asia? And, yeah, we reached out and visited several manufacturers in Asia directly to find really good quality and then assembling it in Sweden ourselves instead.

Blake Rea: 41:26

Well, not only that too, but there's so many challenges and we've some of the people who have kind of progressed through our episodes of podcasts will kind of follow along with me. But there's a lot of challenges that brands get faced by making watches in Switzerland and obviously Swiss watches are known for being high quality, but it's not always the case. But it's not always the case, you know, because it is debatable that some of the movement technology that's coming out of Japan is just as good as some. Everything has to be considered to follow that swish, that swiss kind of moniker that we talked about, um, and and some brands just stray away from it because it it doesn't mean it's a better watch.

Magnus Äppelryd: 42:29

You know, I think that's kind of what I'm going for um, yeah, and also the fact I mean, in our case, I mean being a small brand, a micro brand uh, it's also for us much easier to have. We have much better control of the quality and we, we can also I mean we assemble all the watches they're made to order, basically. So so we, we, we make the watches that are actually sold. So that also makes it easier for us not having to have a lot of different color options already assembled.

Magnus Äppelryd: 43:04

But we assemble the versions or the models that we actually sell, so that's a very important aspect as well.

Blake Rea: 43:11

That is such a cool. So I was working with a micro brand from switzerland and um, and you know, when I was going through the discovery process of them, like understanding like what was unique about them, um, because it was, it was my job to help kind of communicate that messaging to the us customer and um, you know they were, you know I was like, oh, how many watches do you have on hand at any given time? They're like zero. You know we don't have any, any inventory. So, like, you know, when an order comes in, you know, like, the watch is made on the spot to order. Yeah, um, and they were never even talking about that and I think that's so important.

Blake Rea: 43:49

You know, because here in, if you look at like the american kind of manufacturing model, like everything is produced in bulk, they want to get the costs. Really it's really tiny and you know they like. You know like, if you go to any store ever, like you'll just see hundreds of something on the shelves and that goes away from the sustainability. People don't appreciate it, because a lot of times you have a lot of issues with quality control, because it's been sitting there, it's been handled, it's been tossed around, it took a long time, you know, to get there. And so you know their approach was we have a movement and we design a watch around a movement and then they buy the movements in bulk and then you know they'll, they'll assemble the watch, you know, to whatever the customer's order is, um, and we kind of were like why don't you like talk about this? You know, because people care about this. It's like, um, it's like getting like uh, like I don't know like you go to the bakery and like they have a little sticker on it and it says like made this day this time.

Blake Rea: 44:51

You know, like it, it, it brought me into those those feelings and uh, and so ever since then they've kind of rechanged their brand and now they're, they're advertising and people like come back and anyways, it was, it was successful, um, but that's that's such an important thing, you know, because obviously you guys are a small brand. You know you don't have 30 million warehouses. You know to to leave your stock in. You don't have. You know you don't have 30 million warehouses. You know to to leave your stock in. You don't have. You know you're not producing 30 million watches a year. You know like, like, you have to be kind of frugal with how you, you know, build your inventory and how you distribute your watches.

Blake Rea: 45:26

You have to be strategic, or or else you know the brand that we know and love, called braver, will no longer exist, right so yeah, exactly, yeah, sorry.

Magnus Äppelryd: 45:37

Yeah, it also has a very like a personal aspect to it as well, which is very important, I think as well. It's. Actually the watch is actually made for a specific, specifically for for the customer ordering it, so that's also a an important aspect, I think yeah, I mean you're, you're really nowadays, you're really used to.

Johan Sahlin: 45:59

When you buy something online, you get like a email a few hours later that it's already shipped, and our philosophy is that, like, good things are worth waiting for, in a way, and it actually emphasizes the craftsmanship that goes into making a watch and, as manu say, it's made specifically for you. We can offer some degree of customization to your watch. If you want, like a special surface treatment, we can do like finishing of the watch case and so on, as we are making it for you anyway. So I mean, you can see it as a drawback that we are small, but instead we want to, yeah, see it as a positive, positive aspect, being a small land making it more personal and more options.

Blake Rea: 46:48

Actually, so let's say an order comes in from the moment that order comes in to the time you dispatch the watch. What is? What? Is that, that time period?

Johan Sahlin: 46:58

we normally say around 10 to 14 days that is not too long.

Blake Rea: 47:03

I mean especially to assemble a watch, you know. I mean to make sure it goes through all the quality control process.

Johan Sahlin: 47:10

I mean, you know people want to do like a full control, running test of the time deviation and, if needed, to adjust the movements and do a new control and so on. So, yeah, it actually takes some time and we don't want our watchmaker to get to high blood pressure.

Blake Rea: 47:32

Yeah, and how many watches do you guys sell a year approximately?

Blake Rea: 47:41

around 200 watches somewhere around there, so really really, really limited yeah well, that's, that's the cool thing, um, and you know, again, I I lean on cause I've talked to, I've talked to a lot of brands and everybody has a unique kind of story and a unique thing.

Blake Rea: 48:01

Um, but you know, the chances of seeing a braver on somebody else's wrist is smaller, of course, because of the amount of output you put out, but then it also can bring you together, you know. Know, because you guys target a unique customer, you guys are huge into cycling, it's, it's pretty safe to say if somebody else is wearing a braver, then they they're, they're in the cycling community, or you know, um, maybe they're from sweden or or I mean you have this, and so their, their customer, their, their archetypes, like, their customer personas, like are one-to-one, you know. So, like this, this other brand that we, that we've interviewed, like they put together, um, like events for all of their, uh, all of their, their watch owners, because they're like the same type of customer profile and everybody gets along, everybody's like best friends and they feel like they've known each other for decades and it creates this weird kind of community.

Blake Rea: 49:03

Yeah, you know that's cool and yeah, I mean. Obviously I think, as you kind of progress as a watch collector, you want to see unique watches and unique watches tell a unique story, and so you know it's, it's. It's a higher probability that me wearing a braver is going to get more attention than me wearing like, like a Rolex or or whatever Right, so like.

Blake Rea: 49:32

I think that's cool, you know, and it definitely doesn't have to do like volume is not important. It's more about identity than it's about volume. I think, yeah, definitely tell, tell us about the current collection that you guys have, um, and tell us kind of like how each of these collections kind of expanded on the portfolio nobody wants to answer no no so uh, you mean the the full collection, basically yeah, yeah, I mean, obviously you guys have the grand tour, now you have the team heritage and then you have a few three-handers here.

Magnus Äppelryd: 50:12

Yeah, that's right. So I mean I mean, as I mentioned, the Grand Tour chronographs and the Tim Hardidge. Those are the newest collections. But then we also have, actually from the very first mechanical watch we launched was a model called BW003. That's a three-hander, it's a 9mm case and it's featuring a Swiss made Celita SW300 movement. So that's one of the, or that's the first mechanical model we made.

Johan Sahlin: 50:48

Then we have like sorry, yeah, and I just mentioned that the ambition when creating the BW003, which is also the base for the model called Scandinavia, the idea was really to, or the ambition was to create really like your everyday companion. So we put a lot of effort into making it as slim as possible. So that's also the reason why we chose the 300 movement, because it's one millimeter thinner than the SW200. And, for instance, I could also mention like the dials are. They are all curved towards the periphery as well, as the second hand is also bent to follow the curvature of the dial, and also it's's a double-domed sapphire that follows this curvature. So, yeah, really put a lot of effort into making it as slim as possible, this model. So that serves the base for three models actually the 003, the Scandinavian model, and also our GMT, which is based around the 003, the Scandinavian model, and also our GMT, which is based around the same case but with some different design of the of the vessels, for instance.

Magnus Äppelryd: 52:04

And the Scandinavian model. Actually. I mean, we discussed earlier a little bit about our Swedish background and our design heritage and so on. And the Scandinavia was created. To what do you say? Yeah, as a celebration of our Swedish design heritage, basically so that one's quite minimalistic in its design.

Blake Rea: 52:31

Is that what the X represents, like the X on the dial?

Magnus Äppelryd: 52:38

Yeah, exactly that's. Is that what the the x represents, like the x on the dial, like, yeah, exactly that's. Uh, actually the the four different uh flags, so it's a swedish, uh norwegian, um finnish and um denmark, denmark. Yeah, yeah, yeah it's a good looking watch.

Blake Rea: 52:52

Um, yeah, it's a good-looking watch.

Magnus Äppelryd: 52:56

Yeah, sorry.

Blake Rea: 52:58

No, go ahead.

Magnus Äppelryd: 52:59

Yeah, so those models are more, I mean compared to the newer models they are much more, yeah, more graphical and more minimalistic in their expression.

Blake Rea: 53:16

What is the best seller from you guys?

Magnus Äppelryd: 53:17

guys like what's the most popular collection for you guys it's the grand tour series for sure, and and specifically the la corsa rosa model, which is inspired by the, the euro d'italia, um, so it's got the the race giro d'italia has a pink leaders jersey for the, the cyclist leading the race, so it's got, uh, pink accents on on the, uh on the dial, and it's been, yeah, very popular, I think, and has got a lot of attention, which we didn't, which we didn't think from the beginning, maybe that we that it would do so well yeah, the one that stuck out to me is, um, obviously, like, we talked about this before we recorded, but when I met you guys in san francisco, I was walking around with my friend jessica from zenith and you know zenith is obviously known for creating iconic chronographs and uh and her and I were really kind of in love with the la corso rosa 3.

Blake Rea: 54:26

Um, it's just, it's it's, it's bold, but it's not too bold, and it, it, it, it, it I don't know how to describe it, but it's uh, like you would never see. It's just, it's an unmarked, remarkably, um, like I'm fumbling my words because it's so hard to describe but it's like an unmistakable, like identity. Like you know, you've got the, the, the pbd case, and then you've got, you know, the gray dial with the, the tricolor pink and blue and purple like sub dial, and and, yeah, it's just, it's just such, such a good one, such a good one.

Johan Sahlin: 55:09

It became quite cool, as you say, and especially it has like a sandwich style construction, so the indices are cut out and then it's a custom colored super, super luminova paint underneath, which is, yeah, the same pink color as the latest jersey, which is then glowing in the dark, which is kind of cool when it transforms from bright pink into this green-yellowish color in the dark.

Blake Rea: 55:38

But it's a really nice contrast between the sparkling graphite gray and these really bold accents and something that you don't see a lot of people do is make smaller chronographs like this there's a 38 millimeter case, so you've got 38 millimeters of real estate to figure out what to do with and how to distribute it. Um, and most of people don't, you know, most people listening don't understand how challenging of a project that is to do a 38 millimeter chronograph no, that was a challenge and I mean, that was basically the the smallest size we could make it.

Magnus Äppelryd: 56:25

Yeah, and I think that's one of the most common reactions for people that might have seen the, the chronographs on images, and then they they get to see it live and they are yeah surprised about how compact it is, because it's, yeah, it's quite rare actually yeah, and I mean it is, it's decorated up too.

Blake Rea: 56:48

I guess what I love about it, like that's what you know you guys, you could tell I mean some thought went into it. The case shape is beautiful, it curves in all the right places and, uh, and yeah, I mean you guys aren't scared to show off. You know the type of engine, the type of movement you guys are using the solita, the 511 um and yeah, I mean just the. Even the fonts on the dial, you know um, were something that we were talking about, like the way that the like, when you look at this, the seconds, uh, sub dial, like the way the text is spaced, it's just really cool.

Johan Sahlin: 57:29

Thanks. Tell us the design of the later watches. I think this is like a part of our journey with the brand that we came to the conclusion okay, if we're making 200 watches, it doesn't really make sense that we are making something discreet, reminding of a lot of other watches.

Blake Rea: 57:49

So we really want to make something that stands out in a good way, but otherwise, it doesn't make sense for our brand to exist if we don't contribute with anything new on the market. Yeah, can you walk us through what the design process is like for you guys? This is something that we started off really early in the podcast. Our listeners are kind of more not only are they watch geeks, but they're more entrepreneurs and they're creative individuals. So they really really, really love it when we kind of go into the creative segment of our podcast. Um, you know, how does the creative process start for you guys, um, and how does it become an actual watch that you can put on your wrist?

Johan Sahlin: 58:43

I would say that we usually start to define a concept of the watch before starting with the design. So, for instance, the Team Heritage, the concept was finding inspiration from classic cycling teams from the past, so that frames it quite well. And then we also define things like what kind of watch is it, what is the value proposition, what is the pricing of the watch? Um, and then this act really as a good guidance for when we start with the designs. We have a clear source of inspiration that we can start off from. But yeah, maybe people find that odd that you start off with defining the concept before actually starting with design.

Magnus Äppelryd: 59:36

Yeah, and that's actually something I mean. As mentioned, the brand has evolved during the years and we are turning more and more focus on the sport of cycling and picking up inspiration from the sport, and that also helps us in in the, in finding inspiration and creating the design and, uh, in in a very good way, I think. So that's also a big help, and I mean me and joan, we, we work. Usually it takes quite a long time to, I mean, finish the design work. We work together quite closely and do a lot of iterations and I mean in the end, when we have the final results, so to speak, we can never say that, okay, that detail was my, my um, my idea or my design, because it's always, it's going back and forth between between the two of us and we're constantly, I mean, doing iterations and doing small fine tunes and working very closely together, um, so that's working very well, well, very well, I think are there?

Blake Rea: 1:00:47

are there any um elements that you guys hope to to like incorporate into some of your your watches in the future? Maybe elements, maybe complications, maybe materials? Is there anything out there that you guys are looking at that you're like this needs to be in a braver?

Magnus Äppelryd: 1:01:06

we, we are working with a few, uh, professional cyclists, pro riders that are racing at the at the very top level in the world, and I mean we have discussing about making a, because the pro riders are very concerned about the weight and I mean the bikes are supposed to be as light as possible and so on. So we have discussed like a really lightweight watch or something like a climb bus watch. Um yeah, do we have other other ideas?

Johan Sahlin: 1:01:43

Johan, no, I wouldn't say. I mean we're not really into developing any complications ourselves. We think that we're good companies doing that. We want to make life easy for our wearers, that they can service the watches anywhere in the world. That is also why we choose well-known movements. That is also why we choose well-known movements. So it's more about the material of the case and, as Magnus mentioned, to make an optimized cycling watch that is reliable, that can withstand a lot of vibrations and so on, but otherwise nothing in particular.

Magnus Äppelryd: 1:02:30

We are quite design-driven, I would say as well, and, as Johan mentioned, we're working with reliable and well-known movements and so on. Yeah.

Blake Rea: 1:02:41

So obviously you're talking about weight. There's two materials that immediately come to mind obviously titanium, the other one carbon, then the, the third one, maybe even ceramic. Um, you know, so you don't, you don't have a lot of options there, obviously carbon being number one and then titanium being number two and then ceramic, because of cost limitations, um, but they're very challenging materials to work with, as I'm sure you guys know yeah, yeah, definitely.

Magnus Äppelryd: 1:03:10

I mean we are still on the. I mean these are, yeah, discussed discussions we're having, uh, so it's nothing that we're working on right now, uh, but I mean that's the type of materials we have discussed.

Johan Sahlin: 1:03:24

Yeah, naturally.

Blake Rea: 1:03:27

What's been the biggest challenge that you guys have faced as a brand and how?

Johan Sahlin: 1:03:37

did you overcome that challenge? I would say it's related to finding the right partners, suppliers. It's a really small brand, small volumes, strange demands, really high demands, high quality demands. It was quite difficult to find the right partners because they need to put a lot of effort into our projects and they knew that the volumes were small. So I think that is like the number one challenge that we have had, and probably the same for a lot of other micro brands companies. But it's yeah, we've been in the business for quite a few years now, so we have good, established connections with the, with the suppliers now, but I would say that is, yeah, absolutely the the most challenging thing when you start off, would you agree?

Magnus Äppelryd: 1:04:38

magnus yeah, definitely. Yeah, that's a I mean, that's a very challenging part. If I should add anything, I think it's always a challenge to be seen, basically To get people to know that we exist and find our watches. That's, of course, also a a big challenge being a small brand with limited marketing budgets and so on. Yeah, but I totally agree with joan as well, but that's also a challenge for us and so, yeah, definitely hopefully we can help with the the be seen part.

Blake Rea: 1:05:23

So that's why that's, why that's our goal.

Blake Rea: 1:05:25

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah and and then, yeah, I was waiting for because, you know, most people don't I, I guess maybe they're scared to talk about it and you guys don't have to. But, um, you know, starting a watch brand takes a lot of money, like it takes a lot of initial capital to get going, and so I would say seven out of 10 times people say, oh, it takes money. We started off and we were just coming out of college or we were broke and we literally had no idea how to get the money to start to build a watch brand. Then it kind of came the. You know the, the challenge that you guys faced, which is finding suppliers and partners, um, but that can be a little bit easier of a challenge versus raising capital, getting money and, and you know, having financial resources to support the brand you know, yeah, that is a really big challenge and, to be honest, it is from time to time still challenging when you need to buy like 100 chronograph movements.

Johan Sahlin: 1:06:31

At the same time you need to buy 200 other movements and 300 case sets and so on. So it's really a big variations of over the year and we don't work like with a, we'll say, campaign or kickstarter kind of business model. We actually produce all the watches, launching them and then we sell them. So, absolutely, this is a challenge you need to need to fight with, and from the start. We need to fight with and from the start. We first couple of years we didn't take out any salary. We put in our like savings into the company. So I think it was like five years ago we could actually start working with it. So since maybe four years now, both of us are working full-time with the watches. So it has been a long journey, a lot of hours spent outside your like your regular day job. Yeah, absolutely. So that is also a good lesson that you should do something which you really enjoy and are passionate about. Otherwise you will not manage for for, yeah, so so many years before you can live on your hobby, so to say.

Blake Rea: 1:07:52

Yeah, yeah, it's an important thing to do what you're passionate about and, especially, as you know, we're creatives here as well. You know, obviously, like we're doing video content, we're doing podcasts. You know we're doing video content, we're doing podcasts, we're doing blog posts, so we're expressing ourselves creatively, similar to you guys, and it's a challenge because you have to be creative and you have to push the envelope, but you also have to stay true to your heart. I can't even tell you how many times brands have reached out to us and said, like, hey, here's what I want you to write, you know here's what I want you to talk about and I'm like you know, sorry, sorry, like you're talking to the wrong outlet here, like we're

Blake Rea: 1:08:39

you know, you know, if we're lucky enough to get our get our hands on a watch, like you know we're we're going to talk about what we want to talk about, yeah, and and then you know we're we're very community centric. You know, like we're we're very communal focus. Like we talk about we don't talk so much about the products, like we talk more about the uh, the collectors and the journey that collectors face. You know, because you see a lot of other outlets out there and they're talking about, you know, press release, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom. It's just like 10 press releases and so you know you can go to their website and see, oh, like these are all the watches that were released this month.

Blake Rea: 1:09:15

You know, and you know we're we're very alternative in that sense that we talk a lot about the decision making of the collector, their journey, um, you know, strategy. I mean we're very community focused and we're not so much brand and product focused, um, and that's how we kind of segmented ourselves differently and that you know, like for the longest time we were um and we're transitioning now, but we were, we were viewer powered, so like we started off kind of like on 100 donations like we had there.

Blake Rea: 1:09:49

we saw people that were like, hey, you guys are watch, guys, you guys know the industry, you know the scene, you know the products, like we want your perspective, um, and so we had a flood of donations that came in and that that powered us for this whole year. You, you know um, like, and now, now we're kind of facing that point where, like, um, you know the, the people that donated from the start are kind of like they're just, you know, they're just enjoying the content, they're caught up in the enjoyment of what we're producing and um and so, and so, yeah, that those donations have kind of like, kind of like dried up, and so now we're kind of transitioning more into, you know, using partners to advertise, um, and things like that. You know, opening up new channels you know, like youtube is is a new channel for us and a new platform and, uh, you know there's challenges there, um, that we face, um but yeah, yeah, I guess it's similar to building any brand.

Blake Rea: 1:10:46

Yeah, of course.

Johan Sahlin: 1:10:46

You put a lot of time and effort into it before you can actually harvest for the effort you put into it, and it can take quite some time, but you're doing a great job, thank you, thank you.

Blake Rea: 1:11:01

Sure, we have our last and final question for you guys and you guys, a lot of people will stay silent on this, but sometimes we do get answers on this one. Yeah, um tell us what we, we can expect from from you guys in the future. You know what? What should we look out for? Um, you know if, if you were to say, hey, in the next decade we want this from braver um, you know what? What would that be?

Magnus Äppelryd: 1:11:34

oh difficult. So it's a, it's a long in the long perspective sure, yeah, yeah, exactly oh, I think, uh, one one thing that would be cool, I think that, uh, which we discussed a little bit before about stores and retail, selling through retail and stuff is that it would be nice to have like, yeah, maybe a few of our own stores, uh, where we can, um, that embodies our brand. That would be, I guess it would be some kind of mix of a for watch and cycling nerds.

Blake Rea: 1:12:16

Maybe that would be nice, I think yeah that's my spontaneous idea at least you could have a bike and a jersey and then a watch next to it. Like every single you know, watch is designed with this bike and this jersey in mind.

Magnus Äppelryd: 1:12:36

That'd be cool yeah, exactly something like that.

Johan Sahlin: 1:12:39

Uh, because, yeah, that that would be really nice, I think yeah, I, I think we, we have found our niche, uh, our combination of the two biggest passions in life. So we are really, yeah, happy during our work days when we are able to to combine these interests. So, absolutely, I say that we continue in this direction to find inspiration from the world of cycling and that doesn't necessarily mean that the people that want to buy our watches are also into cycling. You could be either a cycling nerd or a watch nerd and appreciate the design in a way, but I think really, that we found a clear niche to move forward and expanding our collection within. So that is what you can expect from us. And, of course, to see us around during like wind-up shows and similar events and, yeah, really, really happy to meet people out there.

Magnus Äppelryd: 1:13:43

Yeah, and also continue to try to create unique designs.

Blake Rea: 1:13:47

Basically, that's a very important mission for us there, there, there has to be and this is again you. You've kind of inspired me to follow to ask another follow-up question okay, but there has to be like a milestone moment for you guys where you're like, okay, if we're shipping a thousand watches a year, or you know, this person gets our watch on their wrist, or like there has to be a milestone moment for your brand. So maybe you guys haven't thought about this, but is there a? Is there going to be one of those milestone moments where you're like, oh shit, we did this. Obviously, you guys are producing watches and you guys are selling watches, but there's got to be something in your mind, as if Michael Jordan started to wear his first pair of Nikes or something. You know what I mean. What would that moment be for you?

Magnus Äppelryd: 1:14:42

I think it would be to again related to cycling to have our own cycling team at a very high level or be a partner of a cycling team. That would be very cool. I think we have actually been a partner of a professional cycling team a couple of years ago.

Blake Rea: 1:15:10

But I mean to be like what I call it.

Magnus Äppelryd: 1:15:12

It a naming partner team. Yeah, I'm sorry, sponsoring partner. Yeah, yeah, exactly yeah. For a team that, actually, where our, our brand name is in, included in the in the team name, would be very cool, I think that'd be pretty amazing so that's probably a dream what about you, johanna?

Johan Sahlin: 1:15:28

I saw you're trying to get some words out there no, I mean I was thinking like about a specific rider who would be cool to be seen on. We have some pro riders wearing the watches, but there is like one big star and my favorite rider. It's called Mathieu van der Poel and that would be really, really optimal to be seen on his wrist. So let's hope for that. And one of the Team Heritage models was actually the team his grandpa used to race for, so maybe there is a chance I'll shoot him a text message all right, guys, thank you so.

Blake Rea: 1:16:19

So, so much for your time. Um, I know we've went over a lot here in this just over an hour. Is there anything you know? I would like to give you the platform. Um, is there anything you feel like we didn't touch? That's important, maybe initiatives, goals? Um, I mean, is there anything you feel like we kind of missed over here?

Johan Sahlin: 1:16:36

I don't think so I mean we're oh sorry, john could it be, uh, that we missed talking about our new vintage team car? Yeah, that's right please yeah, I mean talking about the like, creating a concept before we start with the design. We also decided really early that we need to have a dedicated team car for the new team heritage collection collection. So we acquired an old volvo 145 from from the 70s which is under transformation now to to be like it's called, yeah, service car for, for, uh yeah, old cycling team.

Blake Rea: 1:17:18

So the plan is to take it down to europe and, yeah, visit some of the big cycling races with it, and also to promote the brand of course that that sounds like something you need to document, so I hope and I cross my fingers that you guys are going to film that, because I would love to watch that like just the process of building the car and bringing you know some of the design into it, maybe some of the paints, and maybe you know some of the decals and whatever you guys do like, I think that would be crazy so do us a favor and film it and then I will happily put on the podcast or the uh, the website and I will happily, you know, share that journey with you guys and everybody else.

Blake Rea: 1:18:02

Right, you know, because that's you know, we talked about this a lot um, if you look at, like vlogging, for example, is really popular back in the day, but then you look at, you know, people who have grown with you. You know, like, if you look at I know this is a really weird example, but if you look at the kardashian tv show, you know like people have grown up with the kardashians and like they've, they've witnessed their journey and they've, they've faced challenges with them on TV, um, and the same thing for any reality TV show. So, like, you know, that is where you know you guys will, we'll start to get your, your cult status, you know.

Magnus Äppelryd: 1:18:40

So, yeah, that's right. That's right. Yeah, we will definitely share our our trips with the car. Yeah, for sure well, thanks again.

Blake Rea: 1:18:49

So much for coming on. We're gonna wrap this up. Uh. Thanks to uh, to magnus and johan from. Bravo, I appreciate you guys. Thanks for outnumbering me, thanks for for showing up in uh in crowd and uh. Thanks for uh for taking some of our challenging questions and uh and I personally I'm personally looking forward to what you guys are doing.

Blake Rea: 1:19:07

I'm a huge fan. I'm humbled that you guys have spent some time with me and you know we're going to follow up with you guys here soon. Obviously, we're going to stay in touch and you know we're going to be communicating and staying in touch and distributing and helping you kind of, you know. You know, reach your goals for the brand.

Johan Sahlin: 1:19:30

We're a partner.

Blake Rea: 1:19:32

We'll definitely talk here soon guys.

Johan Sahlin: 1:19:34

Definitely.

Blake Rea: 1:19:35

Thanks a lot mate Take care, guys Take care Ciao.