MicroMilSpec on Building Custom Watches For Norwegian Special Forces with Theo de Turckheim

A watch can be “tough” on paper and still fail the moment it needs a quick repair, a secure crown, or a bezel you can actually grip with gloves. That’s why my conversation with Theodore from Micro Milspec goes deeper than specs and into the real decisions behind building a modern military tool watch. 

We talk about how Micro Milspec started in Oslo with founders Henrik and Martin, how the Milgraph became their benchmark, and why their Field Testing Unit is central to the brand. You’ll hear how operator feedback changes everything from case ergonomics to crown safety cues, why a left-side crown can reduce wrist injury, and why chronograph and GMT functions keep showing up when missions demand synchronization and home-time awareness. If you’re into rugged watches, custom watches, Swiss made tool watches, or military chronograph GMT designs, this is the behind-the-scenes process most brands never explain. 

We also get into the unsexy but critical side: servicing and logistics. Theo breaks down how they aim for faster repair turnaround than the big brands, why “Swiss made” still matters for perception in key markets, and what’s coming next with COSC certification plans, experimental concepts through a Micro Milspec Lab, and a push into new materials like forged carbon. 

If you enjoyed the conversation, subscribe for more long-form watch industry interviews, share it with a friend who loves tool watches, and leave a review so more collectors can find the show.

Check out MicroMilSpec:

https://www.micromilspec.com/

https://www.instagram.com/micromilspec/

Transcript

Blake Rea 0:01

Hello, everybody, and welcome to another episode here of the Lonely Wrist Podcast. I am your host, as always, Blake Ray. And now on today's show, we are sitting down with the Norwegian brand that focuses on producing timekeeping instruments for military units, first responders, and anybody else that's looking for a watch that can keep up with them instead of having to keep up with your watch. By now, you know, we are sitting down with Micro Millspec, which is a Swiss-made tool watch brand coming straight out of Oslo and sitting down with us is Theodore. Theodore, welcome to the Lonely Wrist Podcast.

SPEAKER_01 0:40

Thank you very much for having me back. And hopefully I'll be making you feel a little bit less lonely today.

Blake Rea 0:45

So yes, yes, yes, that would be exceptional. So um I can't tell you how excited I am for this one because I mean Micro Mil Spec is a brand to me that kind of like epitomizes what I enjoy about watches, you know, something that you could just beat to shit, right? Like that will essentially like live with you. And you know, I've been getting into vintage watches, right? So like I have two polar opposites. So like I'm obsessed with like rugged tool watches and like vintage watches that have like stories and charm. So like you guys are on the far left of that spectrum, you know, and and yeah, yeah, I just had the Black Badger on. And we we talked in in the episode briefly about Micro Mill spec and and and his his Mill graph that he got and that he designed, and that he was like he I think he even like put it on during the show, if I remember correctly, and he was just he was so stoked. And then I've been going back and forth with Anna for a while and just trying to figure out like syncing things up, and it seems that you guys are never at the same place that I'm at. So finally we got this going.

SPEAKER_01 2:01

So it was blood sweating things, but we got there. But Anna is very, very persistent and very good at nagging me to turn up to an event or to a podcast or whatever I need to do, she tells me no father.

Blake Rea 2:14

She she she didn't have to nag me, which was cool because you know she's my nag me. Okay, okay. Thank you, Anna. Thank you, Anna. So tell me about like the origin story for micro mill spec. Obviously, you guys are are based in Oslo, Norway, and and you guys make uh limited runs, tool watches, you know, with special operation utility, first responders, military units. Like, like how did MicroMill spec like get off the ground?

SPEAKER_01 2:42

Yeah, I mean it was founded by two people being Henrik and Martin. And Martin is part of the Norwegian Special Forces, and Henrik is pretty much the CEO and the technical guy behind the brand itself. So originally the story goes is that he was working the back of this watch shop in Oslo, working on another watch company at the time, and he was trying to figure out what his next moves was because he was tired of the current business that he was set up in and he wanted to pivot off in a different direction. And at the time, Martin came into the store and was requesting help to try and create his own bespoke watch Made of Z. And he had been looking for several months and had been communicating with other brands, but you know, when he's speaking to Amiga, he was forced to use the Speedmaster as a base model. Then when he went to Tudor is the Pedagos and with Blanc, I can't remember the name of the watch he was imposed, but he was imposed another model. And in his mind, he was like, I just want to be able to create my watch from A to Z with all of the DNA that I want to put inside of it. And at the time, Henrik could hear the conversation happening in the back office, and then he came to the front and be like, Well, I can do this for you. I've already got a watch brand, but you know, let's try and create our own one called MicroMail Spec, and let's specialize in doing custom watches. And little by little, you know, they delivered the first product being, you know, the variation of the mail graph of what we see today. And now I think we've done over 48 projects across 28, 29 different armies, and it's still growing, we still do it as part of our core business model. But and both of them are still heavily heavily involved in the business today. You know, I'll say you have Henrik, who is the B2C guy, and then you have Martin who will be the B2B guy, because he's frequently off and still, he still serves in the special forces and he's consistently traveling the world. And as soon as he's able to tell his story around his watch, typically we then have that army reaching out to us wanting to do their own project. So it's a never-ending, you know, positive cycle of friendship and also, you know, watches and trying to do something different as well than what already exists out there.

Blake Rea 4:44

Yeah, and uh something too that I've noticed as I've been doing research for this podcast, there's like there's tool watches, right? And then there's like extreme like utility watches, which is what puts you guys in the class of like so you know, with your time at Micro Mills back, like what would you say makes a watch more suitable for like special operations versus like a typical tool watch?

SPEAKER_01 5:14

I mean, we regularly test all our watches, so we have one watch called the field testing unit, and every single time, you know, when someone wants to start a project with us, we'll send them the field testing unit as a watch to be tested across a period of six months based off all the nuts and bruises and damage it would have taken. We that that's how we start working on a design of in terms of understanding how the person wears the watch to then create a specific model and a design that works for that individual. So, like for the mill graph, it was to not have steel but have titanium because it's lighter, more robust. It was to also not use a solita movement, but a la juper movement, because it's a lot more precise and can take a lot more of a bashing as well. And you know, everything was thought out to be able to ensure that that watch could be used in the mission, and it is.

Blake Rea 6:03

And and I guess like let's just jump into the shoes of maybe one of those operators who like has the field testing unit. Like, like do you guys send them like a set of instructions to say, like, hey, here's what you need to pay attention to? Like, here's or is it just kind of like very broad and open and collaborative in the sense that like you kind of give them freedom and flexibility, like to design like what would be your next, you know, you know, addition?

SPEAKER_01 6:32

It's total freedom, and that's tends to be the reason why people come and reach out to us, is that's they're really if they want a triangle, uh, you know, rectangle, a square, whatever type of watch they want, typically we can design it, and which is what that is the main reason why people reach out to us. So, like we have a good example with Linage de Combat, which is a French Marine Corps based out in Corsica, they've had various different you know, manufacturers produce watches for their squadron, being Amiga, Blancin, Tudor, and a couple of others. And eventually they came to us just to be like, look, we we just once again want to design our own watch from A to Z and to really create something that regroups the entire squadron. Because as much as durability and everything, you know, all those facts are there to be true, what a squadron wants as well is an item and a watch that kind of encompasses uh you know encompasses uh every single thing uh that is important to them. So for them will be family in some cases, so they'll want a GMT so they could put it on the time zone of home, others will be logos of the squadron, others, you know, even we've had some watches where they've hidden, you know, specific codes and messages and messaging into the movement itself that only they know where it is, you know, they need to look to find that detail. So, you know, the the watch as well is kind of a unification, and you know, it helps create a family within people who don't really know each other, but who spend more time with them than their actual own family. So uh I think it's quite a fun project because every single time that you hear a squadron wanting to create a new watch, their story is totally different from anything else we would have heard before. And it's always quite a fun you know, process of them testing it, then you know, getting a prototype made, sending it back to them, actually they don't like those colours, try this and that. And it's quite a fun process, I have to say.

Blake Rea 8:23

Would you would you say that like operators are giving like different feedback than like a sin a civilian would never think of? Like, I mean, and then how do you kind of balance that? Because it seems like now, I mean, I I've been on your website a million trillion times. It seems like you know, you're also at this point selling watches to like the general public as well, yeah. Right? Like, like you don't have to be like a badass dude who's like freaking like swimming like commando with a knife like in his mouth, like you know, on a special mission, right? So, like what would you say like some of the differences between like the feedback that you get from like your general like public customer and like the special operations community?

SPEAKER_01 9:06

Um I mean the main difference you're gonna have is aesthetical design between you know the the person who wants it B2C, and then from the B2B side, it really has to have a practical use and a robustness that means it can actually be used in those missions and as well that it's easy to repair. So those are the questions they always have you know prior to designing a watch is is it going to break? If it does, how easy it is it to repair? Is there a watchmaker in these countries that we can use and what have you? And those are the general you know questions they'll have on the servicing side. But if not, you know, at the end of the day, they are quite similar to a certain degree where they both like to get heavily involved in the design of the watch. So as much as most of our custom projects are for the military or for other you know B2B businesses, we do have you know from time to time people who will approach us who are celebrating a big moment or event in their life. Uh and they want to, and because of that, they want to create their own aesthetical watch from a B2C perspective as well. So, like we're currently working on a special project that I can't say yet, but it's gonna be something totally different, uh, and you know, in and a high horology section. And it's a person who really wants to create a bespoke field watch, but that is totally different to anything else than we would have done before. So it's pushing us to our you know capacity of doing you know highrology, which you know, for a military tool watch brand, you wouldn't really envisage us doing a high hierology, but you know, we we've got that, we've received that request, so we're gonna try and do it.

Blake Rea 10:35

I'm sure too, like, and that brings up a question that I hadn't really considered, or maybe just a thought. You know, obviously these people are using their watches with a utility application, like they need something that's like field ready, dive ready, you know, flight ready, whatever. So I'm assuming when you're designing watches, you have to think about like being ready at any moment at any time. So like I'm sure that creates challenges on the service side, right? Like, okay, a watch broke, it's gonna happen, right? Like, how quickly can we get that watch serviced and back on the wrist? You know, I'm assuming like how did you even like get around? Because I I can tell you, I've sent so many watches in. Like, if it goes back to Omega, like it's it's like 13 months. If it goes back to Brightling, it's like nine months, or you know, like it's like people who really rely on their watches, like can't wait 13 months to get their watch back, or like nine months, like so. So, how did you even like figure out logistically like how to even get around those limitations?

SPEAKER_01 11:43

So it's it's twofolds. One, it's keeping it simple. And you know, if you look at the mill graph, the way we designed that watch that is you know used by the special forces, it's to done to prevent any type of damage because most of the damage you know that gets done is through not knowing how to use a mechanical watch. So, you know, like it's putting the little red ring around the crown to remind them to close the crown before they go into the water, it's having those little grooves on the bezel so that when they're twisting it, they don't have to take their gloves off and be too aggressive with the bezel, which means it should stay you know, ideally stick in place. So it's it's you know, really making sure that the way you design it and then you know you you should you explain it to the customer that they're aware of you know what they need to do and how they need to handle that watch. Then from a logistical side, well, obviously, you know, Henrik's, you know, our CEO's been operating in the watch industry, I think it's for over 12 or 14 years. So his network of watchmakers, internationally speaking, is I mean, really deep. And you know, on my side as well, I've been in the industry now for 10 years. So, you know, I was at IWC before, working on global activation. So you know, you get used to having to deal with finding watchmakers or working with watchmakers who are proficient enough in repairing those particular movements, and as well, you know, IWCs was a good uh good was a good example because they do watches as well for the military. So uh I think I've I was well trained informed by them as uh you know using some of their network to ensure we could uh get ours to turn around pretty quickly. But you know, temp, you know, what's the problem is being identified? We tend to be able to repair it pretty quickly. You know, it's not 13, 14, 15 months. It's you know, we try to keep it down between two to six. And you know, six is if it gets stuck in customs or what have you, but you know, the natural repairing part is it's pretty quick.

Blake Rea 13:29

Yeah, I saw that. I did I was like in my mind when we were talking, I was like, is that an IWC pilot seritanium there on your wrist? Like, yeah, that's what we're saying.

SPEAKER_01 13:40

So yeah, yeah, it's uh it's a tribute three seven and five. Am I holding it the wrong way around? No, yeah.

Blake Rea 13:47

No, yeah, yeah. Oh yeah, cool, nice. Yeah, IBC is a good one.

SPEAKER_01 13:52

What's a gift?

Blake Rea 13:53

Yeah, it is. Yeah, I've I've done a little bit of work for IWC. So yeah, yeah, mostly just like media stuff, you know, like they came here to to Vegas and they hired me to to do like an interview with Toto. Yeah, and then I did like they they had some special kind of like activations here with AMG Mercedes. I got to attend those. Yeah, I mean, just kind of like small things here and there. And then yeah, I mean, I I did some stuff too last year at Watches and Wonders, and then after, like I went to film. I was working on IWC pilots chronograph versus a speedmaster video, yeah. And so like I literally had like free reign over any of the IWC watches that I wanted to film and and and use for that that segment. So so yeah, yeah. I mean, going back to micro mill graph, are or sorry, micro mill specure edition coming. So uh would you would you say that there are like a set of elements that every operator appreciates, you know, or or people that are in the field that truly, truly, truly can utilize over the general public? And like what some are some of those like constant requests that you get to hey, like you talked about the bezel, the glove, right? Like what features are you are you continually seeing that these special operators are requesting?

SPEAKER_01 15:26

I mean, since the mill graph, I think the main thing that they look for is actually what is quite similar. It's chronograph because obviously they need everyone to be synchronized onto the same time. GMT, because they like to know what time it is at home, because you know they they like to have that little reminder of their family. The bezel element, not all of them request that. I think it's specific more to the Norwegian Special Forces because obviously they operate in a colder temperature, so having to remove the gloves every two seconds is not ideal. But having it as well as a lefties, as a destroy, I think is is you become one of the biggest requests just for the comfort level of not having the crown, you know, digging into your wrist like my IWC here, because that's how you tend to avoid wrist injuries.

Blake Rea 16:08

I was surprised to see that. Like if you look at the the mill graph, like just to see the the the destroy right, like I was like, oh, that's kind of interesting. And I never really thought about it like that, but you know, I've there's so many like military-esque watches that that have these obnoxious crowns, right? And and you know, dare I dare I say panorama, right? Like big pine, IWC. Yeah, yeah. Sorry, IWC. And then and then something too that like I was thinking about, and I definitely wanted to lean on you and get an answer for, is you know, obviously, like Mike, you know, Micro Millspec is based in in Oslo, right? You guys are Norwegian, you're you're from Norway. Like what was the thought process like to make Swiss watches and and and to not you know what like like why did you design decide to to produce your watches in Switzerland as opposed to like Norway? Because that would be freaking awesome, you know. I guess there's probably not the infrastructure to do so in Norway, but you know, you guys are putting Norway on the map. Like, like why not make watches in Norway?

SPEAKER_01 17:20

I think it's a lot of it is down to marketing and perception. You know what? I think America is a good example, but like when I'm in America and with the Indies salons, the number one question I always get asked is is it Swiss made? Because to an American, that is what is the that is what is the standard of equality, is is it Swiss made? You know, you have some French manufacturers, you know, like Cartier, Baltic, and all that who do watches, you know, some of them are even better than what they do in Switzerland. But the reference point for the American market is is it Swiss made? If it's Swiss made, it means it's well made, and if it's well made, it means it's high value. So I think when you're launching a you know a watch brand, you have to think about what would be the perception internationally speaking, and kind of having that label Swiss made is a label of certainty and guarantee to us to a lot of markets. I'm not saying just America is like that. You know, in Canada it was the same. I think you know, you go to Singapore, Asia, it'll be quite similar. I think in Europe, because we we have manufacturers kind of spread out a little bit everywhere, you have some in Germany, France, you know, Italy, even Switzerland, you get kind of used to not really focusing on where it's made, just what's the quality of it, you know, what's it what's powering that watch. Well, I think in other markets, because they're not used to hearing about, you know, maybe Baltic is not as big as you know in in in America as it is in Europe, but you know, in Europe everyone knows Baltic is French made. Uh uh, you know, and I think even Gaftier to a some, you know, to a certain degree, people will think it's Swiss made, but it's actually made in France as well. But I I think it's just an easier way of getting to where you want to go. You know, what why struggle trying to justify how good your watches are, you know, being made in in Norway when you can just get the stamp and then you don't even need to justify it anymore.

Blake Rea 19:00

Oh wow. Yeah, I think as as a watch collector, like I'm looking for, you know, like I guess it makes sense, right? Like there is this a stigma attached to like Swiss made watches that they're like somehow better than the world. And I think you know that that that mentality has been like slowly changing because you can get amazing watches made in France, you can get amazing watches made in Germany. I mean, shit, even China is making amazing watches right now, Japan, right? Like, come on, like so I think now we're starting to see kind of that retraction, right? In my opinion, right? Like, it doesn't have to have a Swiss moniker to be like the best of the best, you know? And then, you know, you're starting to see like amazing watches that are made in like the Vinilux, you know, like I mean, you know, Rescent, for example, like made it made in Belgium. Like, come on, like, I mean, it doesn't get much better than that. So, so yeah, yeah, super cool. I'm super curious too, and this is gonna be something that probably nobody else will get to experience except for our listeners of our show. But like, obviously, you know, you have your your general issues, I guess is what we're just gonna call them, like your general core collection. But let's walk us through the process of of like what somebody who's designing a mil spec watch, micro mill spec, will will essentially experience. You know, you send them the field testing unit, and then like then what, right?

SPEAKER_01 20:35

Yeah, I think it's a convers I think the whole process is generally a constant dialogue in terms of them wearing the field testing unit, testing out the watch, seeing how the watch, you know, has had its bruises and scratches and what of that, and then having the conversation of what's you know, what are they looking to use the watch for, or what are the core design codes that they want to implement within that watch, whether it's you know having a moon phase, a tourbillon, just a chronograph, a GMT, or what have you. And then, you know, trying to work your way to finding a happy medium in terms of want to get the price competitive, because I think people sometimes forget when you go into custom, it generally means you can quickly rack up the prices. So it's obviously trying to stay competitive, and you know, we find ways to offset the cost sometimes because you know, if you look at our core collection, we have six watches from certain squadrons like the Hercules, the US Space Force, yeah, and so forth. And those watches were designed for those core. But the reason why we can sell it to the public is because the order levels were so low that we were able to get authorization to then sell that same product off to the public so we could get obviously our margins back. So that's you know, one way that we try to pay with price to you know keep it competitive is to create a unique product. But then if the order levels are so low, then let us allow it, you know, allow us to then you know offset the cost and see if there's anybody else who wants to buy this watch. And that has worked really well for us as well. But I think. You know, from wearing to delivering the wallet takes about 18 months, two years maximum. If you think about all the trial and errors of what you have to go through, and then obviously agreeing on the actual design is the toughest uh and most complicated point, but we eventually get there.

Blake Rea 22:15

Do do you send out like multiple different like field testing units to multiple different operators, or do you kind of like to just designate like one like operator to say, like, hey, you're gonna be the custodian of this timepiece? And like, is it's your job to get as much information from you can as like your squadrant to say, hey, here's what we want in a watch?

SPEAKER_01 22:38

Yeah, I mean, we're a little bit selective. So originally we used to send it out to quite a few people, and then with the field testing, you know, I think the first time we actually had a project, we sent out 30 watchers, they all tested it, and often none of them returned the watch to us. So we couldn't actually see how they how it was worn. But eventually we were able to get you know, the person, the leader of that particular group, that get a couple of them back, but we we lost the majority of them. But so that's how actually you know the field testing unit story began because you know we we we didn't think it was gonna be anything of a particular watch, but then when we realized everyone kept the watch, we're like, well, maybe there's something in this design, so let's put it up to the public and see what happens. Uh but yeah, no, now we're a little bit more selective. So I think now we we try to find you know three to five people you know who we think could be you know responsible of the watch. Some of them don't even want to wear the watch because some of them know exactly what they want from the beginning. So like when it comes to testing the watch, like, well, that's not important. We know what we want, we want this design. But for people who are a little bit more specific, we still send that the watch too.

Blake Rea 23:41

And something too that I've noticed that nobody really talks about is like, you know, obviously, if you're designing a watch to spec, like you have to test beyond the spec that you want to achieve, right? So like if you're if you're making a watch for 200 meters of water resistance, like you're gonna want to test it like 300, 400 meters, or even beyond, right? So so it brings the question like, what would you say are some of the most like meaningful customizations that you've kind of created for a unit or maybe even an individual? And and how did that impact like the ethos of micro mill spec?

SPEAKER_01 24:24

I mean, I I hate to go back to it, but you know, the mill graph is the best example of it. I think it's the ultimate tool watch that and probably the best design and best watch we've ever created as a brand in the last six to seven years. It in comparison, you know, it literally tells the story of micro mill spec from the beginning to where we are now. You know, we've done a couple of projects prior to that, you know, with the field testing you know, what have you, the Hercules US baseballs, which you know are nice products, but they're quite simple in the way that it was designed and even in its use. But you know, when you look at the mill graph in terms of the thought process behind the design, in terms of making it a death stroke, then having that GMT, the chronograph, the bezel with the you know, with the grooves inside, so you can twist it with your gloves on to the little red ring around the the crown, you know, everything was really thought of in every single detail of that product. So and I think that's why it's so near and dear to our hearts, you know. But I also think it's it's you know, it's cool. We've done a great product, but now we need to focus on finding the next unicorn product and finding our new version of the mill graph. You know, whatever that may be. Hopefully we'll we'll have something interesting next year, uh, you know, to present to you guys, especially, you know, last year we did land, you know, field watches, and then we did the air, so you can probably guess next year will be C. So uh there you go. We'll be going down below. Uh and trying to create, you know, a really deep dive watch. And you know, and I'm sure you you know you'll be the first to know. I think we've got an exciting, you know, new product coming out.

Blake Rea 26:01

What would you say too? I mean, this is probably gonna be a harder question too, and if you can't answer, that's fine too. What would you say are probably the most frequent like customized aspects of a watch? I mean, you're gonna have people that just say, Hey, let's just slap a logo on it. Let's just slap a logo on the middle graph and be done. Like, or like, let's just change the dial color, maybe change the strap color, maybe like these more, you know, visual kind of changes. But then, you know, you're gonna have an operator or you know, somebody in in military that says, I totally want to like break this watch and rebuild it, you know, with with a new complication, or maybe like, you know, something that that like you know you guys haven't done before. So like, would you say that you see more of the latter? Somebody who kind of wants to like like rebuild the mill graph with you, or would you just rather, or do you more frequently just see, like, hey, just slap our logo and you know, put our squad put our squadron colors on it and call it a day?

SPEAKER_01 27:00

I wish it was the let's smash it down and like start could do something completely different and you know, reinvent the wheel. But most of the time it's mate, can I just put my logo at six o'clock? That's like what I'm looking for. Uh or it's mostly honestly, the biggest request I get the whole time is can I change a GMT colour hamps? Because everyone has their own favorite colour, so then like, yeah, if you want to, mate, not a problem, or you know, so or or it's adding super luminova in a particular colour. But it I think the thing is, I think people like to keep it simple with customization because in their mind they're gonna think, oh shit, this is gonna cost like a shit ton. Wow, and and it can, I'm not gonna lie. If you tell me, buddy, I want to do a perpetual calendar tourbillon uh with a celestial thing on yeah, okay, bro. But I mean IWC does that for half a million.

Blake Rea 27:48

Uh half that's like an officer watch, it's not like a field watch.

SPEAKER_01 27:51

Yeah, yeah, 100%. Or it's an officer who's made a head of a lot of money in crypto. Yeah, yeah, true. But you know, at the end of the day, I think people just when it comes to watches, I don't mean it as an insult, but aren't that imaginative? You know, they would rather just do a you know a few small tweaks here and there than try and do a whole process that you know might take two years to get to.

Blake Rea 28:15

Yeah. I'm curious too, like that makes a lot of sense, you know. But what would you say? Because you know, you're talking about forging, you know, we we talked about this earlier, but you're talking about forging like traditional Swiss watchmaking, but still kind of like influencing like rugged utility purpose drill driven watches. So, like, what traditional aspects of watchmaking are you still kind of holding on to when you're you know designing your next edition versus what aspects of traditional switch watch making are you just like, let's just throw this in the bin and like start over?

SPEAKER_01 29:00

Yeah, I I can separate into two categories. I think when it comes to a product, we we respect the tradition of the Swiss you know industry, so we don't really play around too much on that side when it comes to the production and creation of a watch. Obviously, we'd like to have fun with the design and what have you, but that is still respecting certain values and codes that have been there for you know hundreds of years. I think the side that we break uh tradition on is our marketing communication strategy. You know, if you if you go onto our Instagram or you look at our adverts, you know what we've done you know, just recently in January, we did like a Casino Royale, James Bond spoof, you know, poking fun at uh po poking fun at our own waiting lists on the mail graph because we know everyone's waiting for a mail graph, and we're trying to bring those waiting lists down, but every time we bring it down, there's just more people we get onto the list. So, um, but we we I think we're very payful in how we communicate. I think where a branch has a lot of personality as well. I think people can flip through a magazine enough to stop, you know, you could remove all the logos and stop and be like, okay, that's a micro mill spec right there, uh, you know, just looking at the page. And I think that's where we have to be different because I I always say my job is quite easy because I find the switch, the Swiss horological world from a marketing perspective, quite boring. Everyone, if you could buy a magazine, all the adverse look the same. If it's a C watch, there's gonna be C on the background, you know, something like that. If it's in the air, there'll be a plane. Um, and and like there's no differentiation between each other. So I always say my job is super easy because I just need to do something really silly, very different. I steal a lot of ideas from wrestling and uh just go out and uh have a bit of fun with it.

Blake Rea 30:39

Yeah, lay the smack down. Yeah, I see that you guys are doing, and this is something that like again, I I literally just had to look up because you know, when you talk about like rely, like a lot of people who are like operators, right? Like rely on accuracy and not to kind of poke hole in your strategy here, but a lot of your watches are are plus to minus like four seconds a day. Like you have a couple Salidas like in the in the the field testing unit that you know you guys are running like plus or minus seven seconds a day. So, but I also didn't see that you guys are like you know going through the extra kind of steps or process, or maybe just call it a freaking pain in the ass to like get your watches like cost certified or anything like that. Like, is that just not not as important to you to have like a freaking little piece of paper that says, hey, this watch is certified to this accuracy? Or like, is that something that you're starting to see? I I've seen on the sales side that people like literally, you know, like they want the ISO certification, like they want the cost certificate, like they want these weird little things that really mean nothing to nobody except for they feel like it's a it's a value play. So like like if if you could if we could step back and and and talk about you know how I mean it doesn't seem that you guys have or are doing that. I could be wrong.

SPEAKER_01 32:10

Like, I just don't so uh you've you've done this to our future. We are doing it, we are doing it. So yeah, I mean we we have a mole in the company who's told you everything. No, but we're we're we're working on it, we're working on it. I think everything, you know, when you're a small brand, everything's a process. Sure, sure. In our case, it was first stabilized stock management because a lot of our watches are consistently always sold out. So let's get to a point where we can actually have something to sell, and that if someone wants to come into one of our retailers' stores to buy a watch, they can actually leave with the watch that day. You know, the mill graph I think will be unlikely, but you know, your dual timers, your Hercules's, your field testing units, you know, I'm we're we're hoping to get to a point where people can actually buy the watch physically on the same day. Yeah, and then once we stabilize that, we've already actually launched a process to try and get the watches cost certified. And we're actually, you know, we've been uh secretly working with a couple of other movement companies to see how close we can get to plus minus below four seconds. So um, I think you'll see some improvements in the quality and the build and hopefully hopefully in the reliability of the watch, but also you'll get all the certificates that you know we're looking to hopefully pass all those tests um at some point next year. So uh good question because you're the first person to ask me that.

Blake Rea 33:28

So uh I mean I I understand the market, you know. I think that has something to do with why people choose to listen to my myself. I don't know, maybe a little bit, but I understand what the customer wants. And and for me, like like an ISO certification for a bezel, like is not like I could give a shit less, or like a cost certificate, right? Like, because you're you're passing those costs down to your customer, right? And like it it you can you can regulate, I mean you could take a Miyota nine series movement and regulate it to cost, right? You just you just don't have to go through the bullshit like process to like to get the watch certified, like you know, because the certification body is is annoying. Like it's annoying, it's an annoying process, like it adds a lot more time to production. You guys already have supply issues, right? So like you know, it it it just it makes an unreasonable, and I'm sure, I'm sure, you know, you're gonna have to elevate the price, the price of your product to to to extend those, right? Because cost certification is expensive, you know. So, you know, you're gonna see a bump in price, you know, and I think somebody as a consumer appreciating like the value and you know, something that is like, you know, way it's gonna perform higher than its price, like to me it doesn't seem necessary, but for some weird reason, it's like it's ingrained in like the the watch culture, like the the buyers like like checklist that like I want a cost movement, I want a cost move, or like you know, I want a Metas movement, or like it's like, okay, dude, like that's fine, but like you realize like that that's unnecessary, and like you can get a watch that runs at cost, you know, levels, like efficiency, without having to pay the cost tax, right?

SPEAKER_01 35:25

So I agree. I I I no I agree, man. I I see cost a little bit like a tariff, you know. At the end of the day, it's always the end consumer who pays for the tariff. Same thing with the cost. I think where we're lucky is I don't think it'll impact our prices too much because at the time where we where we are today, because our production is going to increase significantly, then it means we'll get those economies of scales of producing more watches, which means we're hopefully we should be a little bit more competitive when pricing up our watches because the cost should go down on a general production, which then means it allows us as well at the same time to then introduce the cost to hopefully keep it at a relatively competitive price range.

Blake Rea 36:06

You probably won't be able to answer this, but again, I've got the future goggles. Like you're starting to see a lot of special operations units, you know, operators that are leaning into the digital space. Like, so tell me you guys are seeing that, and tell me that you guys are acknowledging that. And because tell me it would it'd be badass to see like an Ana Anna Digi like micro mill spec watch. Like, is that something that you guys have talked about considered? Like, is it something in the pipeline? If you can't answer, I understand. You're starting to see kind of operators that prioritize they they need even more than plus or minus two seconds a day. Like they need like you know, you know, micro seconds of accuracy. So so is that something that you're getting you know demands from from operators, or like what is is coming in the future, I guess.

SPEAKER_01 37:12

Yeah, I mean, we it's there's nothing that you'll I think you won't see it in the next year or so, but we're creating a section uh on our website called Micromill Spec Lab, which will will probably come out in the next couple of months. And that section is to really play around the designs that we're you know, where we really want to have a lot of fun with. And based off the reaction that we get from those designs, we may end up releasing those in the future. So I think you know, playing around the digital analog watch, why I mean, absolutely why not? I mean, I'm all for internally. I always say you got to get out of your comfort zone, and you know, I think I keep pushing the design team to do something more original and different than what we currently have in our current collection. And I would love to see an analog watch, so why not?

Blake Rea 37:58

Yeah, how uh you so you've been with Micro Mil Spec now for a bit, I think we talked about and two oh two years, okay. Yeah, two years. So you're still kind of gone gun. Yeah, it's kind of baby, but you still kind of like are there. But you know, as I'm sure you're starting to see like your fingerprint in every collection. So, like from you know, and I don't want to I don't want to put you in hot water, but like, you know, what is the micro mill spec fingerprint when it comes to designing a watch? Like you're like, okay, it has to have this, it has to be 200 meters of water resistance, it has to have a destroyed crown, like it has to be titanium or or what whatever. Like, like to you, like what makes your fingerprint of micro mill spec, you know?

SPEAKER_01 38:49

For me, it's material innovation. So I think at the time when we launched the mill graph, there wasn't actually that many titanium watches coming out at that time. I think from there, you had seen a lot of titanium watches coming out in the past two years. I'm not saying that we were the trendsetters or what have you, but it was just at the time there just wasn't that many titanium watches. Grade five, and to the level of complexity, what we had what we had achieved, there really wasn't that much of a competition. So I think now that we've stabilised that we've got the stainless steel, we've had titanium. I would love for us to explore with material innovation like Tirconium and you know, tantanium. I can't I can't even pronounce half of these materials. Um, and just try and do something a little bit different. You know, I've I've been pushing as well for forged carbon because I think that's a lovely material that you could, you know, we could be using and exploring with. But I think that's that's where the future lies for us. We can't just stick to stainless steel and tiny and watches. We need to have a lot more fun and kind of really use the reservoir of materials that we have out of that, and uh and for it to always be a bit, you know, have that chronograph element because I think that always brings it back to the military and having that little GMT feature as well. And I think that would be you know my thumb on on micro-mill spec designs is material innovation and chronographs GMTs.

Blake Rea 40:03

Nice, yeah. Something too that like I guess I probably should have asked you earlier, but you know, when you're working with like a unit, right? Like a military unit, like and you you talked about kind of like like a vetting process, right? So, so like I'm sure there's people out there that are listening right now that are in military units that have considered, you know, getting time pieces made, you know, instruments, whatever you want to call them at this point. Like, what does micro mill spec look for in in a military unit to create their product, you know, to help collaborate on the next product?

SPEAKER_01 40:44

I mean, honestly, I I don't want to bring it down to price, but a lot of it, a lot of the vetting process begins with the price because at the end of the day, we could do cheaper products and cheaper models, but it's just not in the branding they could do that. So we could use Seagull movements and you know what these other Chinese movements that are wonderful, but it's just not part of what we're trying to do. We're really trying to stay between the price range of 1,500 to$3,000 or I think$4,000 because that's when we see where the gap is is doing customized watches to a high level and a high durability. And it doesn't mean the other movements aren't as durable, it just means that you know we we have a standard that we want to respect and stick to. So I think having that natural price filter, I would say, allows us to pick and choose the militaries that we we get to work with because very few of them will have the funds to want to do the type of projects that we want to do as well, and the ones who generally meet that threshold of paying that price generally have a very distinct idea as to what they want to do, and then are far more involved in the process in creating that watch versus the ones who want to pay 250 bucks for a watch, if that makes sense.

Blake Rea 41:54

Yeah, yeah. I mean, I think people are are worried about like the opposite side of like watch ownership, right? Like if you're and and this, I know this is weird to say, like maybe insensitive, you know, but if you're if you're putting your life on the line, you know, you want to be confident in the security. I know that sounds really weird, and it sounds like a fragmented idea, but like you know, imagine taking like your father's Omega to like World War III at this point, it sounds like, right? So it doesn't make any sense, but you know, so how do you kind of like balance that, right? Like like giving the customer a product that they can feel confident in wearing while they're putting their lives on the line. And and then, you know, the second part to that question is tell me that you've seen like one of the most like destroyed micro mill spec watches, or maybe a watch that has survived what you guys set out to to build, like a watch that some you know, maybe it got blown up somehow or something, and it's still it still worked, and you know, you guys are like, Well, we're we weren't planning for a watch to get blown up, but it survived that, you know. Like you have to tell me one of the lives of one of those stories, one of those watches.

SPEAKER_01 43:19

Yeah, 100%. I I can start with uh part two. What we did actually as a gimmick uh for in 2024 for Geneva Watch Days is that we were actually doing on purpose to test our watches in totally unorthodox manners. And one of those moments were I saw this our smoke jumper watch and we poured a whole bunch of petrol on it, and then we set it on fire to the point where the glass exploded out of the of the watch itself. But then the when we went, you know, everything cooled down and we could touch the watch again, the movement would actually sit intact and stop working. So uh we actually now have it as a display piece, as a museum piece in our office, as like the watch that survived the fire that we set it off on, you know, two years ago. And we still, you know, it still works today.

Blake Rea 44:02

I saw I saw the video where you literally like threw a watch in the lake in Geneva.

unknown 44:08

Yeah.

Blake Rea 44:08

And it was like you're like, here we are in Geneva. You know, like you chucked the watch in. And then, like, you know, I think I I don't know the depth of that, but I I think you guys were saying that it was around 200 meters or so.

SPEAKER_01 44:21

No, no, no, no. I um that was the fun part, is that we said it went down the river by 200 meters. So 200 meters away from us. And then everyone in the comments was uh actually it's even late, it's actually like 10.5 uh meters uh in depth. So like 200 meters is not impossible, so this is like also cabinet. And we're like, no, no, no, you didn't read the sentence. The scent down like going down the river by 200 meters, not uh so trolls do exist because we got trolled on on that one clip.

Blake Rea 44:53

Yeah, no, I I mean I didn't I didn't give much like thought to I just thought it was funny that you guys are just like you know, and then once you pull it up, like it was clearly attached to a string, people who haven't seen that, so they can pull the watch out of the water and then he throws it in the water again, you know? I was like, that is freaking funny and cool, and and yeah, it's just it's just a unique kind of like approach to get somebody's attention, I think. That you know, you guys are so confident in your product that like and I don't know if you've seen those stupid ass videos, but they're like watch cleaning kits, right? Where like they're cleaning like a like a Rolex or something, and then like they're cleaning it on a ledge, and then they're like, oopsies, you know, like and they drop the watch like off like a a freaking like the Empire State Building, and then they go pick it up and then they like brush it off. Like it's like like okay, okay, but you you guys are kind of like in a in a weird way, in my opinion, kind of like parodying that, you know, that like people people kind of like want these watches and they make these watches to these insane specs, but then you know, you sell them to people who and and no offense to people who just sit behind their desk, right? Because I do that, right? Like, like if I were if I were to get a micro mill spec watch, like I I wouldn't use it to 200 meters of water resistance, I wouldn't dive in it, I'd freaking wash my hands with it, you know, or maybe wear it in the shower every once in a while. But like it was kind of a fun little parody, I think. And and I I really enjoyed I was like, man, this is freaking awesome.

SPEAKER_01 46:24

So I mean, honestly, most of our conversations in the company is not around product design, it's what can we do to try and create something that's gonna make people laugh. So, like, yeah, and I think what we're doing with James is a good example because you know, my goal is to something that I uh that's always been in my head is for me, watch collectors and and enthusiasts as a whole love the idea of collecting, which is why they won't buy more than one watch. So having a collectible item that comes with the watch, I think it becomes almost like the little geeky thing and on top of what you know you're already buying. So, like with the first round of uh of the sabotage watch that we did with James, we created little dog tag, and you know, obviously to represent exactly with both of our logos of Super Luminova, a honeycomb texture on one side, camo on the other. And this year for the second round of sabotage watches, I want to create a comic book, you know. But that comes in those little plastic things where you don't want to rip it open because obviously, you know, the inner geek is if you rip it open and open it up, then you you've destroyed the magazine and stuff like that. And I really want, and I'm gonna have like a story layout, you know, everything. I've I've written the script and everything, it's gonna be a play on taking the piss out of all these CEOs of the watch industry. So you'll have the Emperor Mega War, you've got Lord Lust, who's a little bit naughty for Nutilus, and you've got all you know the Grand Psycho instead of Grand Seiko, the Crown Guards, and we've created this whole little universe, which I now want to tell in a little 20-page story, but also then having each page you'll have like a really deep description of what that character is, and that character will obviously be poking fun at that particular brand. Um and I think those having those little sides of collectible products and humor is something that people appreciate.

Blake Rea 48:07

Yeah. Yeah, let's jump back for a second too, because you know, I'm curious about the customer feedback side, right? Like, tell me about you know, you told me about the fire, right? Like, but have you heard any like stories from customers like of a watch that literally set out to live one life and ended up living another, you know, in a weird way? And and how did that kind of impact or or kind of preserve the culture, you know, at Micro Mill spec?

SPEAKER_01 48:40

Yeah, I mean, I think we're lucky because we've got the best crash test dummy being Martin, who's special forces. So originally when the company started at the beginning and we're trying, you know, we were creating these watches. Martin being a watch fanatic, always used to wear the watch and after come back and be like, here you guys go. This is what's left of it. And at the same time, because of that, it allowed us to really work on you know understanding how to create a durable watch. I would say because of that process, and because we were closed off to the public and we were very B2B orientated for five years, you know, a lot of those moments had come through Martin itself. Obviously, you you would have had the odd you know, accident of someone putting out the crown because he was too violent with it or a basel breaking, but not falling to pieces like Martin would have tested the watch, uh, you know, himself. And so I think we're quite fortunate, you know, not being one of those brands that had openly sold off to the public because probably we would have ended up in that situation way more than we would have thought. But you know, we've got our human crash test dummy being Martin, who uh you know does a good job in making sure that they fall to pieces.

Blake Rea 49:50

When you guys are designing watches for professionals, you know, operating and I mean Norway is a pretty intense kind of climate zone, right? Like, yeah, what what are some of the first things that you say like it has to check these boxes? Like it has to be water resistant, it has to be temperature resistant, like like what are the first kind of like constraints that you guys think about, you know, that like are the essential checkbox checklist, right?

SPEAKER_01 50:22

I mean, we always think about obviously the ATMs of the depth management, because that's tends to be something, even though it's got nothing to do with the durability, but for some reason people associate depth to durability of the watch, which is why which is why actually for the mill graph, we when we launched it originally, it came out for up to 100 meters of depth. But then whenever I'll complain about it, saying, oh, it's gonna break, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, even though no one's going to die to 100 meters. So then we reworked the entire case to make it up to 28m, so 200 meters, but obviously caused us to be delayed in delivering all the watches because we had to rework the whole thing. And then the second one I would say would also be I'd say case design, because case design at the end of the day allows you to avoid having uh you know needless knots and bruises and damages that you might have onto the watch. So I would say the case design goes a big way to creating that durability, you know, for the watch itself.

Blake Rea 51:25

Right. Would you say that you've noticed too, like, you know, maybe like features that you thought you know would be important, probably not because of Martin, but features that you guys set out to incorporate into your watches, thinking that these are gonna make the huge difference and like real-world application. But then once an operator or unit gets hands on with it, like, I don't really care about this, you know.

SPEAKER_01 51:51

You know what? At first, we thought the main style of watch that was gonna be created the most frequently was just a simple automatic watch of a date window in a GMT. Uh you know, we thought that that was gonna be the majority of the requests. What surprised us was the amount of people who actually wanted to keep adding further complications into the watch. So if anything was the other way around where we've maybe oversimplified it and we thought, okay, this is gonna be what people are gonna be coming to us for, and everyone's actually come back to us. But actually, we really enjoy that process of adding complications. So we want chronograph, we want, I don't know, a moon phase for or like a tidal phase, you know, for where this squadron's being based up in Hawaii, whatever, you know. So I think what surprised us is yeah, they I think fundamentally called military corps enjoy the process of being able to play with their watch, and having those extra complications is that way of enjoying it.

Blake Rea 52:43

Yeah. It also brings up another kind of thought, right? Like, I don't I don't want to say that you guys are over-engineering watches, but there there are there are people who like don't know like how to balance like simplicity, practicality, and then over-engineering the hell out of something. So like like what is that at Micro Mill spec? Like, how do you not over-engineer a watch? Is it just going back to the basics, or like you know, what point in your mind do you say, oh fuck, we've gone way too far? You know?

SPEAKER_01 53:24

Honestly, I think we I think we're quite realistic in terms of keeping it simple. That's why if you look at the entire collection today, a lot of them have similar DNA design codes. So, like the cases are generally quite similar in terms of actually the cases are similar every on every single watch. So we've not tried to reinvent the wheel as much as it has been engineered for purpose. The actual design codes of each watch and each collection is actually quite similar, which is what we're trying to change now today, is to create a little bit more diversity in terms of the you know the design code. Uh so I think if anything, we've oversimplified it, but now's the moment to enjoy now that we've stabilize the business, I would say, and we've got you know our unicorn product and a really good core collection, is what can we do to now have people continuously talking about us? And that's through engineering materials and also creating different styles of case designs as well. So you'll probably see that in the in the in the coming years, it's what we're actively working on now.

Blake Rea 54:26

Something too that I see is like on the website, you know, you guys have a healthy mix of of products that like come on like a rubber strap versus versus like a bracelet. So like would you say that you see like an equal mix of people saying, we want this on a bracelet, or versus we want this on rubber, because traditionally, and I I know this is like I have to be careful what I say so we don't get a cease and desist letter for this, but you know, traditionally when you think of a you know an operator's watch, like you think about the the the fail point of a watch, which we all know is a spring bar, lugs, whatever, right? Like, so you know, as I go through your website, you know, you guys have I don't want to say the word, but you guys have a woven textile hook and loop strap with a keeper. I think you guys know what I'm talking about. It begins with an in, and it's a four-letter word. So do you traditionally see people saying, like, hey, we need to have a fabric, like a like a like a pass-through fabric strap, or like, you know, that we need it on a bracelet and we need it on rubber, or do you just see, you know, the feedback that's coming in like everybody wants their option, right? You're gonna have operators that prefer a fabric strap, like a pass-through fabric strap, or like, you know, people that prefer to wear it on a bracelet, or you know, um, how have you kind of like in over you know engineered through those problems? Because the lugs are the failure point and the spring bar is the failure point of every watch. I don't I don't care how how well you design it, you're always gonna have to stick to that, right? So curious about your thoughts.

SPEAKER_01 56:04

Yeah, I think most people actually anyone who buys a micro mill spec generally they come to us for the rubber bracelet. And it's only little by little, you know, that we've announced that we're working on a titanium bracelet that will be coming out in the summer uh for the Milgraph and the Well timer, that's that has been able to generate a little bit more interest in those people who are probably you know Rolex buyers or meager buyers who like to have those integrated, you know, metallic bracelets, whether it's steel, titanium, or what have you. So it's kind of open up a new market for us. But generally speaking, you know, if you speak to Martin R special force, the guy he wants something reliable, and that reliability comes more with a rubber strap than you know a oat town strap or you know, whatever we want to call it to avoid any season resistance.

SPEAKER_02 56:48

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 56:50

I'll just call it O Tan.

Blake Rea 56:53

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Um, it all also seems like too, so like I don't have much more questions. Like, you know, we're coming up to the end here, so I'm sure you know you got a couple things to work on before you finish today. But but yeah, something that I noticed too is like the the floor to the brand, right? Like the entry door to micro mill spec is is like right around$1,600,$1,700, right? Like, is that like always gonna be the floor to the brand? Or or would you say like you can still get micro mill spec quality, like and introduce a more competitively priced product? Or like have have you guys just consciously said like this is where we draw the line? Like, you know, every brand thinks about price, affordability, performance, you know, durability to a degree, right? But like, you know, based on like the vault, the volumes that you're ordering, you know, the applications that you're you're putting them through and the way you're testing watches is like, have you even considered, you know, more a more aggressively priced product or you know, another entry segment to the brand, or like what's your thought process around like pricing these watches?

SPEAKER_01 58:08

You know, I yeah, I think for us it's quite simple. If you look at you know, fish more and how they price, we try to do the opposite to that. So we you know, my brother who also works on watches, you know, we often talk about why the big brands are struggling at the moment. You know, our perception is that they're struggling because you know, a reverso back in the day, I think he said in 2017, you know, you could find a reversal for 70 or 8,000 pounds. So like in dances probably 10 grand, 10 to 10 to 11 grand. And today that same watch, they're selling it for 12,000 pounds, which is more like 18 to 19,000. If you put the tariffs on top of that, probably more 21, 22,000. So, but it's you know, it's the same movement, it's the same watch, nothing's been changed, you know. I IWC, you know, once with the Mark 20 just updated the movement a little bit, but it's still the same ticking thing. I think you've gained an hour or two, but suddenly they're charging a grand or two extra for the same piece that you could just buy on Chrono 24 for half the price, and it looks the same. So, like, why would you spend that extra money? And our way of thinking about it is everything underneath 1400, you've got thousands of brands competing in that space. And it's a space that we don't want to be in because there's just too many brands already there, you know. At least in Europe, there's you have so much option, you know, to spend under a thousand four hundred dollars, you have a lot of options. While you know, the space between one thousand six hundred to like four thousand dollars, it's a lot less crowded, you know, even specifically in the tool watch environment. So I think it's a space that we are looking to stay in, we're not looking to go above that at all, unless suddenly the prices of materials and everything explode across the world. But you know, our our gold is a volume business, but not volume at 500 US dollars, uh you know, volume at 1600, and to make sure it's a good quality product that you know people can you know enjoy and that has had a lot of a lot of thought process behind that watch as well. Not to discredit those underneath the thousand four hundred, it's just there's too many brands there. Sure, yeah.

Blake Rea 1:00:07

I mean that makes sense too. And let let's just wrap it up with kind of like like I guess a good feel question, right? Like when somebody puts on what's tell me three things you'll feel you're grateful for, Blade. Three things you're grateful for. I don't I don't do that. Like tell me tell me what you're grateful for today.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:31

But um this is a gratitude moment.

Blake Rea 1:00:38

What what when somebody sees micro mill spec for the first time, maybe gets hands-on with one of your products for the first time, or maybe even purchases and and decides to take this journey with you? Like, what do you hope that your customers feel about the brand? You know?

SPEAKER_01 1:01:01

The most important for me is to feel connected to a brand. So, my I say that my job entails, no matter where I am in the world, is to consistently reach out to every single person that's purchased a watch that's close to me, to pitch them an idea of having a drink, you know, having a lunch or something, and being in constant contact with the brand. I'm not expecting anything from them to buy you know another product or you know, I just want them to have an interaction where number one, they can turn up with their you know, their time piece that they feel very proud to be wearing. Two, to have, you know, feel that they're connected to someone who, if there's a problem, you know, I'm pretty well placed to be able to solve those problems. And, you know, three, just to remember who they are and be like, buddy, you know, we're coming back in the area. Do you want to have a gathering? Uh, you know, meet some other collectors who are microMerspect collectors and uh have a drink and have a good time together. And and that's all I do. And and you know, everyone who has bought a watch in the last two years, they would have received an email from me, Anna, or someone on our team saying, Hi, we have someone from our team coming to your location. Do you want to meet up with them? We've done this in Austin just now, where we were organizing an event in Austin where we've just reached out to everybody, let's purchase a watch. Be like, hey, haven't planned anything, but do you want to do a barbecue and a drink? Everyone's like, Yeah, actually, I really would like to do a barbecue and a drink. You know, we've got people turning up, and I think you know, it's not expecting to send anything, it's just uh have that connection. We bought a whole bunch of chocolates to give to them and just have a moment where they could, you know, show us the timepiece because this is the first time they're having an interaction with us.

Blake Rea 1:02:31

I think that's what brands are starting to learn about, like from my experience and and when I talk to brands, like when I consult with brands, like a lot of people ask me, like, because I sold watches, right? I have a capacity of understanding what the market demands, not special forces demands, but you get it. Like, I understand what a collector, an enthusiast would look for in a product. And and I'm starting to see, and I'm glad that I'm seeing this, but a lot of times I just say, like, listen to your customers. You know, your customers will tell you what they want. Like, and if you're not listening, then you're not a watch brand. You're a freaking, you know, you're just, you know, you're not, you're not developing meaningful products, you know, you're just freaking, you know, taking money from them and and putting it in your pocket. You know, you're not developing watches to your customers' needs. Like you're just developing watches for yourself and then people are buying them, you know. So, but I also see too that brands fail at this miserably. But like how to communicate their products, like every, every, and I hate, and and you know, you see some brands that that over-romanticize this, but they like are like, oh, this watch, you know, reminds us of the water shimmering from a manufacturer, and like that's the way the dial has came to the and you know, you get it. Like, I I I love the brand that I'm talking about, but like you see people that like romanticize the stories, like of a watch or or maybe a release. Like people just want to know why the watch exists, you know, and and you know, you can attach a story to that if you want, but like, you know, the more that brands understand stories, and you guys, you guys do you you clearly you have a whole freaking section on your website about stories, you know, the better off you will be, you know. So thank you for that. Thank you for understanding.

SPEAKER_01 1:04:24

So I mean, my background originally was hospitality. So I used to work in five-star hotels across you know the world. And I always, when I joined IWC actually at the time, I said the main feedback I gave to them was I don't understand how you get a better service in a five-star hotel spending 500 bucks a night than when you go into a watch store and spend 15 grand. You know, you should it should be totally the other way around. And you know, it's the main thing that I've integrated into I into MicroMails. I keep telling everyone in the company, we are a hotel, we need to know everything about our customer from birthdays, if they're getting married, is there like a you know a key moment in the year that we can celebrate with them? You know, even journalists. So, like one of our journalists that I work with in America turned 40. So he doesn't know this. I've I've designed a I'm gifting him a watch with 4-0 on the back, key dates of you know that are important to him, and I'm gonna hand it to him as you know, not even to get anything back, it's just it's an important date for him, and he communicated that to me. And I think having those things and working more like a hotel is going to get a watch brand to go a lot further. And one last thing I was going to say to you is it's funny you should say that shimmering water analogy because uh I'm not gonna mention the brand, but I was at Watch of the Wonders a couple of years back, and I had a journalist who was like, Oh, I love this dial. It was like a light blue coloured dial, you know, really stunning and everything. And I was with the designer of the watch at the time, and she was like, Could you ask the designer in French? You know, what kind of inspired him at this key moment to like create such a perfection of a dial? And the guy, as I speak to the guy in French, and I was. Like, okay, what's your answer? And he was like, I don't fucking know. I just like the color. I don't know. I was like, I was like, shit, I can't say this to the journalist. I was like, the color was from a summer's day where he used to like to have Rose next to Lake Geneva.

Blake Rea 1:06:17

That's amazing. Yeah, I mean, they're they're they're I mean, watch brands are are like trying to make watches like ornamental. You know what I mean? Like, like if it works for them, it works for them. You know, I I own watches that are very ornamental, romantic, or whatever you want to call it. I I mean we talked about a reverso just now, but what like to me, I tend to lean into something that like I could just beat to shit and like not have to worry about it maintaining its ornamental aspects or like you know, the the beauty of the watch. And then I I tend to to buy these really beautiful watches, and I don't wear them because they're so freaking beautiful, yeah, right? And like that's that's just me. That's just me. That's just me. So so so Theo, I again I want to thank you so much for spending just over an hour with us. I'm glad that we were able to make this happen. And yeah, yeah, I uh you know, I can't wait to see what you guys are working on in the future. I can't wait to work more with you guys this year, next year, the years beyond, and and hopefully I'll get a chance to see you this year in Geneva.

SPEAKER_01 1:07:33

Yeah, I'll be out watching the wonders. So hit me a message and we can get it sometime in.

Blake Rea 1:07:38

For sure, for sure. Theo, hang out for a second. Everybody, we are going to link micro mill spec here in the description of the show. If you haven't heard of them, I would highly encourage. As you can tell, these guys are really passionate about what they do and they're really pushing the tool watch, rugged utility purpose, timekeeping instruments forward. Definitely make sure you check them out. Keep them on your radar. Go follow them on Instagram or social medias or wherever you prefer to stay up to date. Theo, thank you again, and we will see you very soon.

SPEAKER_01 1:08:08

Thank you, Blake.