Arsène Lippens and the New Era of Swiss Watchmaking

A great watch doesn’t just tell time, it tells on you. The choices you make, the memories you keep, and the people you want close. I sit down with Dreis, co-founder of  Arsène Lippens, to talk about how an independent Swiss watch brand can feel like family, not just a product drop. Our conversation starts with a chance meeting at Chronopolis during Watches and Wonders and quickly turns into the deeper stuff: belonging, heritage, and why some pieces connect emotionally while others never do. 

We trace the brand’s origin back to Dreis’s grandfather’s collection and the tradition of engraving watches with friends’ names. From there, we get practical about modern watch collecting and neo vintage watch design: why Arsen Leppens avoids chasing hype, how proportions like lug to lug length and a double step bezel change wearability, and why they chose a pulsimeter scale over the usual tachymeter on a chronograph. We also talk entry luxury pricing, movement choices like La Joux Perret, and the real startup hurdles most founders never post about. 

Then we go deep on the textile dial story: how it’s made durable with resin backing, tooling, UV protection and humidity testing, plus what “textile patina” could mean over time. Dreis also teases what’s next, including new textile directions, personalization and upcoming surprises. If you care about independent watchmaking, Swiss microbrands, and watches built to last with meaning, you’ll want this one. Subscribe, share it with a watch friend, and leave a review so more collectors can find the show.

Show Arsène Lippens some love:

https://www.arsenelippens.com/

https://www.instagram.com/arsenelippens/

Transcript

Welcome And Guest Introduction

Blake Rea 0:01

Hello, everybody. Welcome back to another episode of the Lonely Wisp Podcast. I am your host, as always, Blake Ray. And today's guest is an awesome one. He is the co-founder behind one of the more interesting independent brands emerging what I would consider in modern watch culture, Arson Leppens, a brand that's seemingly built around family heritage, craftsmanship, and the idea that watches can create a real sense of belonging. And of course, a brand that was built on friendship. What I love about these guys is that they're not only just building watches, but they are bringing identity, community, and pieces that actually mean something to the people that are wearing them. They have mastered personalization and storytelling and are carving out a lane that feels different from what a lot of other brands and what's happening in the industry right now. So today we are going to be talking about the origins of the brand, the neo-vintage design language, the independent watchmaking coming out of Switzerland, and the future of collecting and what it really means to create an emotional connection through a watch. Today we have one of the co-founders, Dreis, who is a CEO in Alberta, who is unable to make it, who is running up all the marketing. And let's get this show going. Dreis, what's up, brother?

SPEAKER_02 1:19

Well, well, well, so we see each other again. I mean, it hasn't been too long since San Francisco. So and then we had Venusaur before that. So let's say we hope from place to place and then we go on to the online uh space as well. But thank you honestly for having me. But actually for having us originally, Alberto, you know the Italian flair has to go with the marketing to get it in there.

Blake Rea 1:42

Yeah, yeah. No, I I did all the planning. I was telling Dryce that I did all the planning for both of you guys, and I'm like, oh sh, I gotta, you know, when I found I wasn't coming, I had to rewrite. So, but yeah, it seems like we've spent pretty much the whole like last couple months together in a weird way.

The Chronopolis Meeting Story

SPEAKER_02 1:58

Yeah, I mean, it started off in April. I mean, which was actually in a quite funny way, due to the sense. I mean, it was at Chronopolis during Watches and Wonders. We were exhibiting there, and let's say, among the other brands, Chronopolis was for us, it was amazing. I mean, we'll be there again. We've talked with the guys from uh behind the team, uh, with Lorenzo and but with the others of the of the team. And let's say there are some plans, let's say they also have for the future, and we'd love to be a part of that. So I don't think it's gonna be the last uh that you have seen of Chronopolis, nor of our lepens, but at Chronopolis, I remember very well what was the moment, let's say, of introduction or before the introduction. It was Georgia that was passing by, and I saw she was wearing a Denison watch. I mean, we go we know the the guys of Denison quite well. I mean, they're also based in Geneva, they're very lovely people, let's say, and their stand was a few stands from ours, let's say, we could look at each other. And she was passing by with the earring, and it was quite funny because I've never seen an earring less a watch as an earring, let's say, and it was Denison. I didn't expect it, so that was very fun to see. And I just approached her saying, Okay, can I see what the earring is about? Because it was something, let's say, out of the ordinary that I had seen, and then you were there as well, together with Mike, uh, who was also there, and basically that way you came to the table. Then, of course, we saw each other a little bit later again when I was outside, and basically you were passing by and you were saying, like, oh, we're gonna grab food. Do you want to come? And but for me, that was amazing because it was just out of the out of the blue, randomly chill, and that's what made it so fun. And then we had some Chinese food at the Rue du Rhone, which is I mean, I was very close to the Bourgivage, and let's say there we had the conversation, we were talking about America that we're coming soon, and uh but I think there was a click, we had a very good evening, and yeah, that's why we got in we stayed in touch, and then we saw each other at San Francisco as well, even before the fair happened. We went for some drinks together with with the guys from Nevada from Space One, so yeah, I mean it's it's it's all about having just a good time, right?

Blake Rea 4:23

Yeah, yeah, those are some amazing moments that I will cherish forever for sure. And and that whole piece, like with the whole earring, I I never knew that. Like the way that I saw it is like I was just like, all right, these guys are coming with us, all right, let's do it, you know. Like it was just that that simple for for me. So I didn't even know the whole like Denison earring piece, and that's like the missing puzzle piece to that I just now learned, which is interesting. And then something too is like, you know, obviously I'm a I'm a one-man show. Like you guys are the same, you guys are wearing so many different hats, you know. I I'm not out looking for brands, you know, to talk to or to have on the show or anything. Like, I'm not I'm not an offensive player. I I'm just trying to do the the PR and the press for the brands that I that I work with. And you guys just kind of like landed in my lap, which was amazing because you know, when I was going around Chronopolis, like I I really just kind of went over to the brands that I that I knew and was just like, hey, what's up? You know, hi, you know, here we are filming with the brands that like I know. But tucked away in the corner was your special brand that I had never heard of. And it it's I'm glad that that that changed, right? That you guys just kind of land into my lap in a weird way.

SPEAKER_02 5:41

So yeah, but I mean, uh life overcomes you, so and it goes. Uh it goes like this. Let's say, uh, how would I say is at Chronopolis you will see so many things, and everything is planned. I think not only at Chronopolis, not per se at Chronopolis, but let's say more at Watches and Wonders itself. Everything is planned, everyone is tired. So I think the one the things that actually happen spontaneous, those you remember a little bit better, I think, somehow, if that makes sense. Yeah, and it's for that reason that I think we stayed in touch as well, because it was more spontaneous things, and and it's how it should be at the end of the day. I mean, I've met several people from the watch industry just by accident. You look at the risk, yes, but it's not that you're gonna talk to everyone purely about watches. Some some people you just you know randomly go for a dinner with, not knowing any of you, because I was not aware of of who you of who you were, because nor me nor Alberto, we didn't know who was who was Georgia, we didn't know you. Uh, we got to know after that Georgia was also an influencing. Then there was uh there was Nathan and Anna as well that we were at the dinner, of course, Mike, and and then there was you, Mr. Blake. So let's say it was a good bunch.

Finding The Watch Worth Buying

Blake Rea 7:00

Yeah, no, it was a it was an amazing crew. That was like one of the the best crews right there, I think. And then ironically, on I just put I just posted yesterday another podcast, and I had talked to my friend uh Leon, and he was at San Francisco, he's from from Austin, okay, and he'd actually he'd actually brought you guys up on the show, and he was like, Man, I w I want to buy, you know, those textile dial arson leftins, and I'm like, boom, like, you know, and he he was he was a little jealous, yeah. And then I told him the story on how like I was like literally like I had some money that I was like burning burning a hole in my pocket, and I was like, oh, like let me figure out what I'm gonna buy before I leave. And then as I went around, sadly, I was I was like disappointed with most of the stuff that I saw. It just didn't fit, you know, like my personality. Like, I'm just not gonna buy a watch just to buy a watch. Like it I have to genuinely love it, you know. And and then I obviously like you you find your way like in these weird little black holes when you're at lined up or something, like your phone doesn't work, like you're you're impossible to reach unless like you bump into them in person, and and you know, you tried calling me and I I told them, and then you know, sure enough, you presented the third of the Portofino, which yeah, exactly. Super amazing, and and now Georgia's upset that she doesn't have one too. Okay, I'm upsetting everybody that I guess.

SPEAKER_02 8:37

So we'll have to bring in some change uh to that. I mean, I think there's definitely the opportunities that we'll see each other. We're gonna be at New York Wind Up Watch Fair as well. So I think a big crowd will be there, and I think we'll have the time to organize uh a nice dinner, and then for sure we can see uh if they want to be a part of the of the Arcelepans family, let's say, because we call it more family. I mean, we're a growing brand, we stand for certain values, but at the end of the day, it still needs to be family-like, yeah. That's the approach that we always wanted to do.

Grandfather’s Collection Sparks The Brand

Blake Rea 9:12

Let's use that to segue here because you know, doing research for this, like a lot of the the brand identity comes directly from your grandfather, right? Exactly. Exactly. And was it also his collection that kind of inspired the brand?

SPEAKER_02 9:29

Or like, yeah, exactly. I mean, that's what exactly inspired it's what inspired me, let's say, most first of all, to get into watches. Now, I think we all get into this rabbit hole somehow that we don't get out. For me, that was the way on getting in but never getting out anymore. And then you say, Okay, let's start a watch brand out of it, and then yeah, well, then it never stops for sure. But yeah, it was, I mean, it was mostly Patag Vacheron Breguet with Alpina and some pocket watches as well that uh were there. There is actually an old Alpina pocket watch. Let's say the first watch that we designed back in the days with was inspired by an old pocket watch from Alpina with brigand numerals, but still with the old logo, the way they did it was uh it was with a guillochage that they did on the case back, it was 100 case back as they usually did with the with the pocket watches. So that's what initially let's say started the design of. But the first watch that really inspired me from my grandfather was actually it was a 34 millimeter Seamaster de Ville from that's how I got into watches, let's say, and that was the watch that he was wearing as a daily, and that was I received the collection when I was 11. So let's say with that going on, after he passed away, it was my grandmother who actually gave it to me. And then you know, you let it be, you just let leave it there. I just knew one watch, I had one watch that I was wearing, and it was that Omega Seamaster DeVille that I was wearing, and then when I was more when I was 16, I got more and more into it. And you know, during high school, you try out like some different phases. You think, like, oh, I'm a cool guy, I'm gonna go for a bigger watch. Um let's say we're not bigger watch. What I mean by bigger watch is 40 millimeter. I don't go above 40 myself. So for me, that's let's say the the limit that I go into for myself, what I feel comfortable with, and uh then I mean I was into watches, corona happened, you know, everything was about watches. The watch business was booming, and let's say I was very into watches, I did a whole different studies. I mean, I was studying at Ghent University, and then when I finished my studies at Ghent University, which were Slavic languages at the end of the day, which was Bulgarian and and Russian and the economy of let's say the uh the more Central Asia and Russian economy, let's say, let's say I did that purely. I mean, just to give you a background of it, I did those studies purely out of a personal interest due to the fact that I was adopted at a very early age from Bulgaria. So I wanted to rediscover, let's say, the Slavic culture through that. My other passion was watches, and I didn't see myself doing anything within that study field or in that work field with my studies. So I said, okay, we we moved to we moved to Geneva to start at the business school there, and that's where I met Alberto, and I had watches with me from my grandfather. Alberto also liked watches. We found an apartment together, and I was already designing the first design back then because I started with it uh during corona, actually, during 2020. Because what do you do during corona is but there were barbecues that people were doing, or they got into sports or very weird passions, and mine was watches of that, and I started designing it with the help of a friend of mine who was a mechanical engineer. So I was more YouTube self-learned than with a friend of mine on how to use AutoCAD and Solid Works on that through him. And then eventually, we me and Alberta we did we met each other in Geneva and we said, Okay, he saw the first design, he liked it because it was also based on the collection of my grandfather with the pocket watch from Alpina. And then we started thinking, okay, we we make your brands named after him, because that was the initial idea of design reason, let's say. And he collected with a certain meaning as well, which was an emotional meaning, buying together with friends, engraving each other's name on the other one's watch. And for me and Albert, we were friends, so we said, Okay, we do the first prototypes with each other's names on on the other one's watch. And we try to keep that transition, uh, tradition, let's say, of my grandfather, of the spirit of vintage design, but still with a modern twist, let's say, to it, and that's that new vintage at the end of the day, yeah. And that's where we got now. I mean, speed up to today, 2026, compared to 2023. It's been three years now that we officially have been going with the company.

Blake Rea 14:13

Did did you ever get a chance to have those like collector's conversations with your grandfather? Like, or is it man?

SPEAKER_02 14:21

I was so I was nine years old when he passed away. Collectors' conversations, not really, more in the sense a watch should be a man's jewel somehow. That yes, because I received one for my first communion, let's say. So that one, because when I was my first communion was when I was six. So, yeah, I mean, that's the only conversation in the sense that hey, you have a fun watch for your communion to celebrate something. That's pretty much it.

Blake Rea 14:57

I'm assuming that's part of the reason why, like, you know, family is so important to your brand story because it all started kind of at ground zero for you with with your grandpa, Arson, right? So exactly, exactly.

SPEAKER_02 15:12

Um that is one thing. I would say the other thing is I think is more of the values that you go through life as well, and how you evolve through it. I've always been close to my family, not only my grandfather, but also to the rest of the family, let's say. So let's say family values to take it with into a business maybe literally or non-literally. Somehow it's always nice to have it in there to feel to feel good and to feel comfortable as a brand on the way you want to go with

Defining Heritage For A New Brand

SPEAKER_02 15:43

it.

Blake Rea 15:43

Something too, like when I was going through your website, because I do a lot of research, like I spend hours doing research for these podcasts, and that kind of I is my my thing, right? The putting the passion back in. But something that you're you're talking about on your website that I haven't seen a lot of other people talk about is like heritage, right? You know, I guess the first collector's like light bulb is like you guys are from 2023, right? That's when you started your brand, you know, like there's not a lot of history, but somehow, somehow those there's still heritage in the brand because of like your connection to your grandfather, his watch collection, you know, getting to where you are today and and and building that as a part of your identity. But you know, it it brings me right to the question of like, what does heritage mean for a young independent brand like yours?

SPEAKER_02 16:42

It's a very good question because actually, I mean, as a as a brand, if you pose that question together, you can look at it from two different ways personal and the brand aspect. My personal is very different than what the the brand is, in the sense that heritage can go very wide on a personal basis. From a brand perspective, for us, the heritage is related, first of all, to my grandfather due to the design language as well as the spirit that we're using. Meaning, you can engrave watches with us for the Artigiano, for example, like this one. We do offer the option for people to engrave it, or if you're with a group of friends or you're with a family member, you engrave something that is meaningful. So that's the heritage of the trend of the tradition that it is a tradition that is put into the heritage. Tradition of my grandfather of doing engravings and personalizing it. That's one part. Then the other part is the design language of the of the watches. That heritage is related to him from watches that were back in the days. And what is the other part is for us heritage is also with the watch people that we work with. For example, with Martial, he has a very big heritage behind him, in the sense that he has worked through throughout his years, let's say, of his career with various big brands, and that builds a heritage as well as a let's say his factor of heritage is basically knowledge, the knowledge of the watch industry on how to do things, having seen the watch industry evolve, and his expertise into it, and that evolved or that heritage of knowledge that was acquired from back in the days into the brand of today is a part of the heritage too.

Blake Rea 18:42

Yeah, I mean, amazing. And also, too, I mean, I'm sure like maybe or maybe you don't believe in this, but you know, I I lost my father a couple years back, and everything that I find myself doing as a man today, I ask, like, what do you what do I what would my father think of this?

SPEAKER_02 19:04

It's funny that you say that because I've posed that question to my uh grandmother. Uh she's still alive actually. Uh she's uh 90, 91 now. I think it was during Christmas time or something uh last year that asked her, like, uh what would my grandfather say of of me? First of all, of because I remember when I was a kid, I was someone who never could keep attention, and he was always saying, like, when Drees is doing homework, if a fly passes by, he's gonna have seen the fly, but he won't have seen anything else that he needs to see. And because I was a very distracted, a little bit hyperactive kid, uh that was me. But I posed the question to it because let's say things change and you change as a person. So he has known me as a kid, but how would he have seen me as as from today? And it's exactly the same as you have it with your with your father. It's a question that will always stay unanswered, but I think it's good that it stays unanswered somehow. It's unfortunate though that it's a question that is unanswered, but on the other side, there is also a good side on it because let the let the question float in your memory and into your imagination, so you give it a meaning that you feel happy with somehow. I think you can relate in his shoes somehow, knowing who that person was for your father and how he would look at you. For me, that's also my grandfather, and I think that's a happy thought somehow, because you know they'd be proud of it somehow.

Blake Rea 20:40

Yeah. Do you find yourself like being like, oh, would would would grandfather or in my case dad approve of this? Or like, you know, I try to think about too, like my my dad had a set of weird like philosophies and approaches to life. So I find myself like slowing down and being like, okay, let me try and approach this the way that my dad would.

SPEAKER_02 21:07

Do you do you find that happening throughout the brand, or is it just um but my my my grandfather is a was he was very old school. What I mean by that, very traditional on how family should be like, but he was always warm towards the family in the sense to the people that he really really loved, he was very open, but from the outside, he was a bit more of a closed person, reserved person, let's say. So, from a risk-taking point of view with business and stuff, he would sometimes maybe call it crazy, get a more traditional job. That's why I also said that he had the traditional values. So, with his mentality, let's say, do I follow it? Not always, you don't have to, you you find your own way somehow, and if you walk against Wall you walk against the wall. I do wonder sometimes, and that's more of a one thing I do take with me in the brand is that you should you should all and it's more about of the way he was and the way he dressed is that keep it keep it formal warm, meaning that don't don't come overdressed, don't come underdressed, don't speak too high of a tone, don't speak too low of a tone. Meaning blend in in in in the crowd, let's say, and you'll find your spot somehow. Um and that's what we take with the brand as well. We blend in within our own way, not by going super extreme in in certain designs, because nowadays everything is being done in design, right? Or in the way certain things are being shown. It keeps true to ourselves. We do some funny things, but not funny things, but we do some more out-of-the-box things, let's say, for example, the textile dials, but still keep it traditional, and that's what I mean by that. Don't go too high, don't go too low, but find that balance point that that feels nice, let's say. So that's how we do take it in a brand, I would say.

First Releases And Entry Luxury Pricing

Blake Rea 23:21

Yeah, no, that makes a lot of sense. Let's talk about the collection and like how you got to where you are today. So, was it the numerico? Was that the first release that you guys had?

SPEAKER_03 23:34

Exactly.

Blake Rea 23:35

And then you moved on to was it the visionario? They actually were released at the same time.

SPEAKER_02 23:43

Okay, they were released at the same time because the numerical was a quartz watch, still Swiss made, but it was a quartz watch with a ronda 515 movement, and the visionario was basically with uh La Joupere L113 movement, so they're quite two outer worlds of it of each other based on movement, but it in design language they still had that same thing, meaning the double-step bezel, for example. So it's for that reason that it made sense. It was like big brother and small brother. We call them Fratali collection as well. That's the way we we called it, and that's the family kind of like feel that the way we wanted to go with with the friendship, it's Fratelli because Alberto he is from Italy, so we gave it an Italian name, yeah. Um, which every watch is actually Italian named after because of the influence of Alberto, so his identity is in there into the brand as well. So the reason for doing these two is to set a little bit the uh expectation of what we can do, as well as we are not a brand that is uh unaccessible, we are an entry luxury entry luxury level brand. We are not beginning at 5,000, we are beginning at 1000, but in America it was even a bit lower, let's say, but that was to set the tone of okay, we go with some higher-end watchmaking to show you what we can do, we go with some more accessible entry luxury so that you can also feel invited to be a part of it. That was the idea behind it.

Blake Rea 25:28

Did did you guys and I I always ask some brands, and always is interesting to me to see like how you got to the price segment that you're at. And so usually two ways, right? You look at the market and you say, here's the price point that we feel like we need to build a watch within, or you go the approach that I'm sure you probably took and just said, let's just throw everything we have at our watchmaker, and let's just see where that we land and and how affordable we can get this package.

SPEAKER_02 26:06

Uh but the way it was was more first we want first we started off with design. We we we we started from the heart, let's say, of of how we liked it, yeah, without actually knowing what price it was gonna end up with, to be very frank with you. That was just coming along. I mean, yes, you make a business plan, but the business plan is after week one week or two weeks is gone, and you go freestyle and you try to uh sometimes you need to correct a little bit, but let's say for us it started more from a design of what we liked, what did it represent the watch. We went with La Jou Pere, mainly due to the fact that I was very pleased with the reviews that I've read and also with the times that I had a La Jou Pere in my hand. Of course, there was the Salida movement that was possible to go for with the 510 chronograph. However, we wanted to go for La Jou Pere because it came with uh a column wheel instead of a cam. So it was for us, it was good to go with that based on feeling again. Then we saw the price of the movement, and it shocked us a little bit, so then we were like, okay, let's actually calculate prices so that we don't burn our wings before we can even fly, you know. Yeah.

Blake Rea 27:20

The the visionario from what I saw seemed kind of like your next step. And the way that it your website kind of has it is you kind of frame your brand around this collection. You know, you talked about some of the the streamliner inspirations, and something something that was very, very, very interesting to me that uh I was just trying to think like, why would Rice, you know, think about these things?

Why A Pulsometer Beats A Tachymeter

Blake Rea 27:53

But you know, in in in most chronographs, you know, you see a tachymeter, right? And you guys chose you know the pulsimeter. Like what how did that like like what was even the thought process behind that?

SPEAKER_02 28:10

The thought process behind it was it was it was basically okay, what is something because everyone does a tachymeter at this very moment, or at that moment, there are a lot of tachy meters were out there. We were looking into okay, what is something meaningful that holds heritage on what exists already for a long time, and what came from a utility point that actually could be used in daily life or from a profession. Meaning a watch at the end of the day, it's yes, it's something to look nice at. You need to be able to read the time, it needs to be a part of you. It doesn't have to be per se one, it can be a blend a blend of different things, and that's where the pulsometer came in, in the sense that it was a utility thing. As the way watches were, you need to read something, and a pulsimeter for doctors, let's say at the end of the day, came in handy to to use it to get the heartbeat, let's say, from the patient. So we said, okay, it feels utilitarian. It's because racing at the end of the day, I mean, I'm gonna ask you who who actually measures while driving the their lap their own lap time, for example.

Blake Rea 29:29

Yeah, that makes sense.

SPEAKER_02 29:31

And I was like, okay, if for some people, let's say you take your pulsation sometimes. I think everyone does it some sometimes. When we were a kid at school, they also taught us okay, you need to feel that many pulsations and this much time to know, and and that felt a little bit like let's say natural on there to then go with a pulsation dial instead of a tachyometer. There was also the telemeter option that we could have done. I mean, that one is also out there that was actually in our minds at certain actually do. We didn't go through with it purely because of what the balance of design also played out with the pulsimeter.

Blake Rea 30:09

Yeah, that makes sense. Something too that I also noticed when I was just doing my deep dive is like you know, you haven't really leaned into trends with your collections and your designs, like you're focused more on building a watch that can kind of remain timeless instead of like jumping into stone dials or not not just, you know what I mean?

SPEAKER_02 30:35

Like that's one of the things that's yeah, we've seen we've seen various of them out there, let's say the past year, year and a half or so.

Blake Rea 30:42

Yeah, yeah. But is that something that you feel like is rooted in the brand identity to create a product that will always feel timeless and that will kind of age appropriately?

SPEAKER_02 30:55

Yeah, that's that's the whole intention behind it. I mean, you want to have a watch that works in every time, meaning if it's 2020 to 26 or if it's 2080, for example. That person that is, for example, 25, 26, 27 years old that wants to wear it, they they still feel that it's fitting there. But the same thing is for that same person that becomes 25, 26, or 30, when they are turning 60, they still feel happy wearing the watch. So that's that's how you can see if a watch is timeless, or that's for how for me how it feels, let's say. And that's also the watches that I received. Most of them they could be worn back in the days, but I mean, if we're looking at the watches now of them, people are going crazy on auctions for some of these uh references, let's say, of the ones that I received, and that means something that they're very timeless at the end of the day, so that we try to put in there.

Balancing Neo Vintage With Modern Wear

Blake Rea 31:58

Something too that's also interesting to me is like you know, I'm really interested in design, and I can tell that you you that looks like what wakes you up every day, like your first cup of coffee is preceded by design. But you know, something that I've noticed like throughout the entire portfolio, that you have this neo-vintage aesthetic, but you're still focused on on like modern wearability. So, like, how do you like balance those two like polar opposites of of design?

SPEAKER_02 32:32

So but let's I mean, I I want to give the example of the visionario, which was at the end of the day the one of the first pieces that came out, right, together with In Americo, is that it was a classic design of a chronograph, which had more vintage feel due to the way of the dial looks like in the sense of the details of the dial, but then the color, for example, we had a terracotta and we had a sabia, which is a like a mustard kind of green dial almost. That color makes it a lot more feeling modern. So, with certain aesthetics being vintage, then the color makes it not per se vintage, but more new vintage. Because if it would be vintage, we would go with more traditional colors. So that's the blend. There's always that twist that gives a little bit of a modern edge to it. Now, I think the Artigiano is the perfect example for this one. We went with a inspired from a 96 case, Patek 96, because that's one of the watches that I received back in the days, but with a double step bezel, then which is always a double step there for us, which is then with a textile dial. I mean, I don't think back in the days, I'm talking about uh the 70s, 80s, that they would have done textile dials back then. So that's the modern twist on that watch. You could feel that it's Patek like due to the inspiration of the Patek 96, but you still get that modern twist due to the fact that it's textile, but at the same time, it's not a textile that becomes icky, it's a textile that still feels calm enough yet interesting enough. So that's how we blend that neo vintage, or to come to that neo vintage vibe, let's say, of what we do.

Making Textile Dials Durable

Blake Rea 34:36

Something that I noticed too, or at least I thought about because I've worked with textile fabric before, but the second you cut it, it phrases like the edges, they turn into little, you know. Um so, like, how did you work around those kind of challenges with textile materials?

SPEAKER_02 34:59

And I think that's the most common question being asked. Like, does it not frizzle up? I can tell you with 100% surety of that, that it does not frizzle up because, first of all, they're resined, the textiles on the back. Meaning that it's not gonna frizzle anymore, it comes together in a melting point at the end of the day through that. So on the edges on the outside, you're not gonna get frizzles. Now, what is important is that of course, on the top, we want to keep a natural look. We apply a kind of matte resin and then press it down a little bit more with a certain machine tooling that we do, so that once the resin is fully dried up, it stays fixed. Then, of course, you need to test against humidity, against heat, against cold. Textile reacts to it, it's uh it's it has a life on its own. But with the resin, let's say, through that, how would I say we we try to replicate the process of heat and and and and humidity? If the textile does not react, it passes also our uh quality test, let's say, and we've tried it several times, let's say, to just leave it in a very humid thing, and then you take it out, and then it actually the resin is a lot stronger than than we think. It took a long time to figure this out, but this was very important because yes, we stand for innovation, but the quality still needs to be there. Another question that people are asking is it not gonna shine off the color throughout time? But shining off, it might get a certain let's call it a textile patina. Would be cool to get textile patina dials somehow if it ages nicely. However, we do have a several anti-reflective coatings, we have ultra-violet coating, meaning that it is protected against the sun, so that it's anti-reflective, being not too much damaging the color, and the resin actually does help with that because it's an extra protection layer going with it. So I would say if people do still doubt it, it's like we we say to everyone on every exhibition or uh where we are, give it a closer look with a loop, and I think then you're gonna see the actual detail. You might feel comfort then once you've seen it under the loop that it is quite controlled, it's still alive, you can see frizzles, but it's all under control as you can see. They're fixed. If you're gonna look in 10 days from now, those same frizzles will stay in the same place, they will not have become longer.

SPEAKER_01 38:01

Yeah, or one year or two years.

Blake Rea 38:06

And also it's is interesting because it still maintains the original appearance of the material, like it doesn't feel like it's treated or coated or or hardened or like in you know, like any in any type of way, which I thought was very interesting and almost like I don't know if it's just me, or maybe it's just the case design, or maybe it's like the the structure of the way that you've assembled the watch, but there's also like a transition that happens from the case into the fabric, like either through like some type of like rehot or some type of like like frame or something or gasket.

SPEAKER_02 38:47

I don't know what, or maybe it's just the way the sapphire is, or I know exactly what you mean, and that's the dome, the sapphire, the way it's placed. Oh so it's kind of it's a kind of reflection that you're seeing. Because when you look at not fully straight at, but when you look at straight of it, it looks like that it has a white white border a little bit around it, right? Yeah, yeah, exactly. But does it that's the reflection do to the glass the way that it's going, let's say? Wow, because it gives it's not a fully domed pot-shaped glass, it's a partially domed pot pot-shaped glass, yeah. And due to that, you get reflections from certain corners in which the light basically fills up that circle. Yeah, something we have noticed. We we've talked about it, and we said we we leave it because actually it's it's fine, it's not disturbing, it's fun to see, it feels like it feels very 3D-like, which is good.

Blake Rea 39:48

Yeah, a lot of brands don't understand that like dimensionality is the most challenging thing, like you're trying to create depth in something that is relatively two-dimensional, and if you can master that, you can master watchmaking design in a way, so it's it's just amazing, it's super cool. Is there any like design details while we're on it that like personally, like you kind of and it sounds like this might be one of them, but that just kind of accidentally happened, and you're like, okay, wow, we have to like keep this, and like that you're super proud of.

Proportions Rules And Wearability Choices

SPEAKER_02 40:25

We we have uh there's a few fixed rules that we have. It's it's like you were saying, dimensions, everything needs to stay in balance. What I'm not a big fan of is that for me personally, is that when the dial of a watch, even though it's a 37 or 38 millimeter watch, that the dial makes the watch look bigger than it actually is. I'm not a fan of that, and that is about proportions, meaning that the dial opening, the way you look at it, means that it's too thin and too big compared to the locks, and the rest of the carure uh the carure, the the case of or the part of your case. So that is the rule number one for us, is and we do it through the double-step bezel, is that never make the dial look too big when you make, for example, 37 or 38 or 39 millimeter watch, so that it feels proportioned. We'd rather have want to have a dial look a little bit smaller through a thicker bezel, and that's how we play with it with a double-step bezel as well, to make it perceptually look maybe a little bit smaller and nicely better fitting on the wrist. Because that's what happens with the visionario that we have, as well as the skeletato, the skeleton piece skeleton piece that we have, is is that's a 39 and a half millimeter. But everyone thinks that it's 38 while it's not. What is again? This is a double-step bezel that plays into that, making the dial appear a look smaller through a thicker bezel, and the double step bezel levels that out without doing one thick bezel, but you still get a breaking point of it through the double step bezel. So that's rule number one to achieve that. Rule number two is don't make too long from luck to luck, don't make it too long. That also really helps in the way it's perceived on it. So you can have a 39.5mm and still make it feel wearable for people who would wear 37 or 36 millimeter watches, but at the same time, people who would be wearing a 42 millimeter watch. So that's been a comment as well that we've had from a lot of people. Hey, it actually wears very proportionate, even though I might have a bigger or a smaller wrist, and that was all intentionally done through the bezel and the luck to luck. So those are two key elements that we always take with. We don't have something that came by accident in the sense that oh, we need to always implement that. For us, there were two key rules, and the rest we we build very much around it double-step bezel for the proportion and the luck to luck. Those for us are really key elements.

Blake Rea 43:15

It seems like too, based on your collection, like you guys tend to also lean into hand wound movements. Is that just your your personal preference, or do you feel like the market's kind of going back to hand wound movements?

SPEAKER_02 43:31

You know, I know you have little automatic chronos, but it was not based on the the market move for us, it was just more based on um we like the clicking sound, let's say, that you do with a get a with a hand wound movement of the winding of it. That's one thing. The second thing was we wanted to remain with a certain thickness. For us, it was 9.9mm thick to watch. We We would not have been able to achieve it to get it under 10 millimeters if it was with an automatic winding to offer it for the certain pricing with the certain ID and the concept behind it, let's say. Yes, we could have done an Solita 200, for example, but the thickness was gonna be too thick, and that was not what we were standing for. For us, it was to let it be worn on every wrist that fits nicely, 9.9, and a little bit of an achievement boost, like okay, we did it under 10 millimeter with a mechanical movement with the with the team, let's say, to create it. So that was the idea behind why we went with a handwind movement.

Blake Rea 44:42

That makes sense. Also, something too that I was looking through the archive, and you know, like with your visionario collection, you have bold, very bold color, like dial colors. Yeah, but it's interesting because there are colors that you would really kind of see in nature, which I didn't really like put two and two together. Like, you know, you use salmon, like you use terracotta, you know, use the pewter, you know. Like where did you like get this like color palette from? Like, why you know, like nobody's doing terracotta dials, you know.

SPEAKER_02 45:23

No, no, no, but I I'm not very aware of if other people are doing it to be honest. Actually, it came from a picture in 2017, no 2019. I'm sorry, from my mother who took a picture when we were in Al Kudra Desert in Dubai. And uh basically the picture was a sunset picture in which there was orange and desert and colors like. So the sabia, visionario sabia was from the same picture from from that my mother took, as well as the visionario terracotta, those two came from that. Then we said, Okay, we're gonna start pictures, take pictures of ourselves. We do the panton and we do some tests, and we see do we like them or not? Do we feel cool with it? And then we said, okay, they're all based on nature from pictures that we took ourselves eventually.

Blake Rea 46:47

That's super cool.

Clean Casebacks And Meaningful Engraving

Blake Rea 46:49

Something that also, too, is like you can tell, like I've done some research, but the trend for your brand is also to have like a very sterile case back, yeah. Right. Is that just the whole DNA that like your grandfather's watches were engraved, and you just wanted to kind of say, Hey, we want you to be able to do this? Because you know, a lot of casebacks now, like they'll put some type of embossing or put some type of you know, pattern or whatever, and they'll they'll load them up with a ton of text, and like you don't really have the ability to kind of like make a meaningful connection through engraving that people used to do, and it's becoming a bit more popular now. But was that the reason why you just have these very sterile, kind of clean case backs for that intentional breathing?

SPEAKER_02 47:42

Or yes, I mean to put other people put 580m or they put serial numbers on the back, or they put, let's say, certain details, or the fish of the ATM that goes with it for us, less is more in that sense. It feels clean, it feels nice, that's one thing, and it keeps just space open. If if you do want to have the opportunity to put on something, that's the highlight of the case of the case back then, rather than being disturbed by something else.

Blake Rea 48:11

Yeah, yeah, I I'm not sure if you'll answer this, but it might be a little too secret-y, but you kind of have mastered creating a product that feels personal as opposed to something that is more produced in in volume. Like, what's the kind of secret recipe to that?

SPEAKER_02 48:42

The recipe to to have something feeling personal that is I would say is the people in the team. I mean, if everyone is aligned in the same mentality, I mean, we're very uh with Marcial as well. Marcial is now 58. We have beers together, we have barbecues together. With with Alberto, we go play golfing, we um amuse ourselves. We have Tristan who is also there, he's a childhood friend of mine. But when I started going out when I was 15-16 years old, uh, we were having our first beers together, let's say, going out and playing football and such. So I would say if the alignment of the mentality of the people is good and family-like, you can still get a product that is produced. I mean, if you look at the whole industry, there can be mass production as well. We're not doing the biggest quantities. I mean, we're still a younger brand, we're still trying to build up where people do get a nice luxury feeling without breaking the bank, let's say, some kind of that. It's our mentality and the familiar like thing that goes through the brand. So good people make a good mentality for the brand to put that outwards, even though it's a more mass-produced nowadays. Let's say, if you look at if you look at the people at the brands within our price range, let's say, of entry luxury luxury pricing, between 1000 and 5,000, let's say Swiss francs. Of course. I mean, these are not fully handmade watches, and and we're not gonna lie about that either. I mean, we we work with certain parts that are hand finished due to the fact for movement, for example, it needs to be hand-finished, or maybe a little part with the skeleton. We have done that, but it cannot be excessive because we need we still need to be conscious of okay, we want to offer the best quality, let's say, that we can within the price range that we are, but not per se the best, but you want to give the correct quality for the price range that there is, if we can give it a little bit more of that edge, even though it's a more mass-produced thing in general. We have that capability through Martial and the knowledge, let's say, that comes through it. So we do try to give meaning through that with certain executions of it, and then it's the people of the mentality behind it. So, those two, let's say, that can be balanced out to still make it feel personal like being in a mass-produced industry.

Startup Challenges Marketing Mistakes Doubts

Blake Rea 51:23

Yeah, something too that like I love to hear from founders and entrepreneurs, you know, such as you and your partner, you know, every interview like is all flowers and sunshine and rainbows and all that, but like most people who start a business know that it takes like grit and persistence to get to where you are today. And so naturally the question then becomes like, what are some of the challenges that you guys kind of overcame when you know starting starting the brand?

SPEAKER_02 52:01

First challenge, let's say, that we had is okay, can can we put up some money? I mean, let's be honest. Without money to invest, you're not even starting it. You can have the best idea that there is. Uh how do you how do you make the first prototypes happening? Do you do crowdfunding? Do you invest itself? Do you look for internal external investors? I mean, we never worked with external investors. That's not how the brand started off with. As as of up until today, there is no external investor. It's me and Alberto who put up, let's say, most of our saving accounts were drained, let's say, because of it. It was a concept that we both believed in. So yeah, that was the first step. That was the first hurdle saying, okay, we need to put up the money. What was an automatic consequence of that is that if the business fails, I don't have I don't have any money in my savings anymore either. So that's the second hurdle at the end of the day. So you still need to live somehow. So those were the first things. Then the sec uh the third thing, what for us at least, it was it was a hurdle or challenge, let's say, to overcome was finding the right people. It was not done in one, two, three. I think everyone meets very good people, but are they the right people? You don't need to find a good person, but you need to find a right person for you. That makes sense, and that was something that we found in Martial who worked at, I mean, he worked at the bettoon, uh Daniel Roth uh Oudemar Piget, but he wanted to come back to that basics and building up a brand. So the fact that he was aligned with that, even though being a very experienced watchmaker, that was the right person for us coming with the experience, but still with the excitement of the beginning of starting something out. So that was our second hurdle. The third hurdle that we needed to find out can we fight the right people, as well as finding the right suppliers? I mean, what do I know about watches? Was I knew certain things and I know knew certain suppliers, let's say that I've heard of or that I've written about. But you need to find out the suppliers. Is the supplier aligned, let's say, with what you want to design in the price category? What fits, what doesn't fit. Maybe your supplier is actually overcharging you, or maybe your supplier is being very late with certain deliveries, and that was also a hurdle for us. I mean, I think as a starting brand, you're doing a pre-order, so people are need to wait for a long time for for the watch. We we had long waiting times, let's say, but and and trying to improve lead times is a hurdle because you want to make the people happy, but you also want to make the business happy. What that what do I mean by this is yes, you can make the people happy by pre-investing, but if it's not economically healthy, your business is not gonna be happy. So that's a hurdle that you need to find out and balance. And I mean, schools can say whatever they want. I mean, I I do think university is very good to do. I've done, I mean, I've done 70 years of university myself in total, so I'm happy I'm out of it. But the real life does give you experiences and hurdles that I would not probably have had if I didn't start the story.

Blake Rea 55:50

My next natural question leading is I love hearing about like, you know, we talked about you overcoming some of the early challenges, but when you're starting a business, you're just consistently making mistakes, right? And the mistakes never end up in the marketing or in the imagery or in the the brand story. So it leads me to you know, what are some of the mistakes that you guys made early on, and like what did it teach you?

SPEAKER_02 56:26

One of the mistakes was not going into let's say marketing with journalists or marketing with journals itself or even advertising. We brought a very good product, we came with some good pictures, we thought, eventually we found out that it could be improved the pictures, and we can still improve today. Uh but it was the fact that we did underspend we underspend in marketing, we underestimated it. We thought, okay, a product speaks for itself. Okay, it clearly does not, and and and that's the thing. You need to be put out there to get the trust from the people, let's say, not from who you are, but by honest reviews from other people, maybe from journalists, maybe from people that do an interview. That is something that we very much underestimated, and that we did not put enough budget to. Meaning to write an article is not free. I mean, every uh it's it's known. You can you can get a free interview, but then people need to put in the work, they need to approve it and stuff, and then it needs to be published. Some of them take pictures, so that requires some money, and we underspend in that, and that's something we found out that is actually something that every brand should do. I'm not saying that you need to spend crazy money, but find a good balance for yourself. We had to lift up, let's say, the budget for that, since we misallocated but budgets a little bit for that.

Blake Rea 58:05

It's like building building an amazing car, but not putting fuel in it.

SPEAKER_02 58:09

Yeah, basically. I mean, if if the if you can only do one acceleration, what's the point of uh of of of the car?

Blake Rea 58:17

Yeah. Has there been any moments like on this journey that you've just been like, well, shit, man? Like you have doubted like everything that you've done up until this moment? Because that happens a lot. Like, I I think about that as an entrepreneur myself, yeah. You know, as a founder, I'm a founder, right? We're both founders. You know, there's moments where I sit down and I'm like, shit, man, like, did I just waste three or four or five years of my life trying to get to this? Like, have you had moments like that?

SPEAKER_02 58:47

Yeah, I think every person in our situation has thought about it, not once, not twice, but multiple times. I think everyone who says they have never, I find it hard to believe. But yeah, let's say that there is that uh little wacko screw in the head that you say, okay, let's do it anyways. Yeah, I agree.

Blake Rea 59:13

That's where that's where I'm at.

SPEAKER_02 59:15

Um, you need to have that little edge, but and this is something very, very important to point point out a journey is never done alone. May it be with your personal partner that supports you and which you talk with, may it be your family or whatever, may it be your business partner. For me, I've had the opportunity to be close with with my family as well as with my business partner. We are very good friends, that's also how we started off with. Yeah, meaning being complimentary when the one, and and I it's an advice in whatever relationship you have, may it be your business partner, maybe we'd be your family, you need to compensate and be complimentary. Sometimes it's 40 and 60 percent, sometimes it's 10 and 90 percent. Just make sure that if you're in a business with another partner, that you're both not at 10 because that can give a bad bad influence to each other. So then you need to be strong enough. And we've always had the we've always had the the luck, let's say, to be like, okay, I'll be I'm thinking this, this, this, this, but come back with some feedback or whatever because uh it's it's boiling up here. Let's talk of this and this.

Why Collectors Shift To Independents

Blake Rea 1:00:38

What do you think? So, like, you know, obviously, you know, when I was at Watches and Wonders, and then I jumped over to Time to Watches, and I jumped over to Chropolis, you know, it's like a night and day difference between like what happens at Paul Expo and what happens at like a small venue like Chronopolis. So what do you think is fueling you know, that whole rediscovery of independent brands, like watch brands like yours? Like, what do you think is driving people to desire something from a smaller brand like yours as opposed to like Cartier or like you know?

SPEAKER_02 1:01:20

But it's a it's it's uh react it's a reaction to an action, let's say. What I mean by that is the reaction of the people to look at us would not be existing if the bigger brands at Palexpo wouldn't exist. So we should be thankful, thankful for them to be existing so we can find our place as well. That's one thing. Why I think it's good that they are there, and why the people come to us is that the approachability of it. Now everything is online, everything feels a bit more distant, everything goes very fast, everything feels very formal. I mean, okay, you buy something on Alibaba, and I mean poop poop poop poop poop, and you have it. You buy something there, pa, and you have it. Amazon, whatever it may be. With a luxury item, you're not just gonna do that, let's say you're gonna think about it. You wanna think, okay, what holds it for me? Why do I like it? This, and you're gonna go into the craziest details if you like a watch that you're like saving up for. So now the bigger brands they have become a little bit more formal. I think that's just a fact. You don't see ad Chronopolis suits. I don't think a suit is bad, but it instantly gives a more formal atmosphere to it. Yeah, and and and people see things happening super fast and maybe too formal and a bit too corporate. And I think that's a little bit the reason why people come to the micro brands because they can they can relate, they get in touch with the people behind the brand, also on the way it was back in the days. I mean, if we're looking at the Jean-Claude Bivert uh back in the days with Blanc, I mean it was not much different than what we are doing with the micro brands today, right? With how we started off with Blancin when he relaunched the brand.

Blake Rea 1:03:18

Sure.

SPEAKER_02 1:03:20

And look what a success it became. It was a it was a less digital area, of course. I mean, there was not really digital area now. Since the 2000s, we're speaking of a digital area. We're talking about what 40 40 years ago, almost for Bivera or 30 years ago, let's say. I mean, I remember this story that they broke the glass or something of uh the blancin booth for the first time that they were at Basel World and saying, Oh, the Blanc Ban watches, we cannot show any of them. Let's say, and that made headlines because oh, newcomer blancpin, glasses broken, maybe watches are stolen, even though they were not the biggest brand. They did something innovative innovative, and I think that's also what the people are coming to with the micro brands. We're offering something that is innovative without being too strict to the regulations on how the path has been set forward for the bigger brands. They are a little bit more between walls or a direction that they need to follow. So they do bring innovation. I'm not saying they don't bring innovation, I'm just saying that if you look at the smaller brands, I'm I'm talking about. I mean, I get along with the people from Atliwan, I get along with the people from Space One, from Nevada, from from Denison. I mean, they're all bringing their innovation. I mean, we're looking at if you think about now of these brands and you think of what they've brought, have you seen that with the bigger brands at this very moment? Not per se in quality, but just in originality more.

Blake Rea 1:04:57

Yeah, I I would say originality for me. Like so, yeah. I've also considered the fact that you know the moment a brand dies, in my opinion, is when your customer loses the ability to impact the future of your brand. So, like, obviously, like if let's just say, for example, like there's there's a design issue with a watch, and I like write Cartier and say, you know, not to throw them under the bus as an example, but the chances of somebody at Cartier high enough up reading my comments saying, oh, well, this you know, bracelet like shreds my arm hair and like I can't micro adjust, and like, you know, like it's not comfortable all day, like you lose the ability as a consumer to impact the future development of the product. That's when a brand. To me, loses its its recognition, its appeal, it's it's it's lust or allure or whatever you want to call it.

SPEAKER_02 1:06:10

But it makes sense. I mean, uh, we've also had various conversations, and we're very open to hear feedback and to even implement it from the people because we're not looking from above, we just want to you know make our watches in our style. If we can improve, happy to hear, and we'll try it out. If we like it or not, that's always another question. It's not about if it's better or not, sometimes you just don't like it the way a certain thing has been adapted with the feedback, and that's fair enough. If we're talking about wearability, I do agree on that. I think we're all listening to all the microbrands, we're listening to hey, this and this. I mean, you hear it from more and more micro brands, shorter luck to luck, you know, the the the sizing of it. And if we're looking at the if we're looking at the high independence, I mean we're the let's call ourselves the small independence, let's say the uh the entry luxury level independence, let's say, and then you have the high independence, which is uh uh Simon Brett, uh Rek Shep, uh those guys, they are doing a crazy thing, and they are very original. I do think they also listen because they also have been usually with big big brands before, so they've heard maybe the complaints of certain people, and they will try to implement the improvements and their own watch that they launched, for example. I think that's a good way of doing it. I think if you look at the I mean, I'm I'm gonna Berneeron, for example, the Mirage. You're familiar with the the the that was launched. I well, I don't know, was it 2024, 2023, maybe something like that? Yeah, not the same time as us. They uh I mean they made a movement in the shape of the case, which is usually not being done, right? They adapted it to the case. Whereas usually, I mean, if you make a rounder or shaped watch, they might either go for a round movement or they might go for a rectangular movement, right? These guys said no, we take it into the same shape, and you could hear it a lot from certain people saying, but if you're doing a rectangular watch, you have an open case back, why are you doing a round movement and not doing a rectangular movement for it? Sometimes it doesn't fit. If you look at Darneron, he he's the high-end independent watchmaking. Maybe I don't know, um it might be a coincidence, but maybe he listened to to this fact. Okay, we're gonna do it because you know we can do it, and it's something that I've heard a lot.

Blake Rea 1:08:49

Yeah, maybe it is. Makes sense.

Evolving Without Hype And What’s Next

Blake Rea 1:08:52

Last two questions. I know you're probably have the work that's been piling up while we've been recording this, so want to be counts to that, so I apologize. But how do you evolve your brand without losing the identity that started it?

SPEAKER_02 1:09:14

How do we evolve as a brand? Don't give too many SQUs, but the more SQUs you do, the more new originality you might need to bring, which might not always be the best originality since you're drifting away from the original idea. Second thing is but keep treat keep true to the values of what you want. Okay, yes, you can scale up in in quantities, you can scale up in models that you have offered, but keep them true to to what it was. Always look behind you in the sense that okay, how have we done it? And then look forward to execute it, let's say, rather than going with hype. I mean, and I think hype is something that drives brands away from their original concept that they started off with. I think that's a very important thing to to keep true to yourself, don't follow hype. I mean, hype in in the in the in the stone dials for sure. I think there was a hype. Some brands who never were into stone dials. What I mean by that is or that or a brand that you never would have expected that does a stone dial, suddenly that the stone dial some of them. Yeah, uh, I mean, Denison is so strong for their stone dials, they're so original. So I like what they do. I've seen other brands as well. I mean, the guys from Chronopolis, they they most of them have let's say all of them have been always original. I'm then talking about external lesser known brands that do want to pop out more. I'm not saying that we are a known brand, but I'm saying there is always gradations. You have level one, two, and three. Let's say we are on level two, the level one brands, they try to pop out and come on the picture by following the hype, which not which may not always be true to their original idea. And I don't think that's a good one to do. Yeah, all right.

Blake Rea 1:11:22

So, final question, and I'll let you get back to work. You know, obviously, people who have been hanging on and have been listening to us talk for an hour and 14 minutes.

SPEAKER_02 1:11:35

40 or 14?

Blake Rea 1:11:37

An hour and 14.

SPEAKER_02 1:11:39

Okay, okay. Yeah, we are zero, it was gonna go, it will it went fast, very very fast.

Blake Rea 1:11:45

No, yeah, we have a good time here. Um people that are listening are probably gonna need to know why they should keep paying attention to what you're doing. So give us a taste, if you can, of what to expect from the future of Arsene Leapens.

SPEAKER_02 1:12:10

I'll put it in one sentence. The textile story has just begun only. Okay, there we go. We've been building and brewing. Yes, it takes a little bit of time by the time that we show it. But let's say for this full year, you're gonna see not only pure textile, but also blends and something very, very personal that you'll be able to do to make the feel to make the watch feel yours. So we think you're gonna like it. We hope you're gonna like it. We like we like it anyways, otherwise we wouldn't do it. And some fun uh collaborations are coming through with it as well. And in a couple of weeks, let's say, there is a halfway June, there is a little surprise that we have. So that's the only thing that I can tell for the moment. Think about your personalization, just the beginning of textiles, and in halfway June, something fun is coming.

Blake Rea 1:13:19

Amazing, dude. Amazing. Thank you so much for spending time with us, sharing your story, like letting us kind of like pick your brain. You know, of course, being willing to talk is huge, right? You know, take time out of your day, amazing.

SPEAKER_02 1:13:36

So I appreciate it for having us, honestly. For having me, uh, Alberto was gonna be here otherwise as well. But it's our pleasure. I mean, it's let's say also from a personal standpoint of view, it's it's fun. You get to know each other. I was also not aware on how your thought process was or your life story, one of those parts that you mentioned as well of with your father. I was not aware of that. And and I mean, it's interesting to hear, so you get to know each other better through it as well, which is fun.

Blake Rea 1:14:04

Yeah, yeah. Well, I'm I'm a fan, I'm a friend. I can't wait to see, you know, like the next chapters, you know, for the brand, for for you and your partner. And and I can't wait to to just hopefully somehow be a part of those in any type of way.

SPEAKER_02 1:14:24

I appreciate that, honestly. But we see each other for sure in October at New York. I hope so. Um the summer is gonna be a little bit more calm, less traveling. Let's say June is our last travels to London. I don't know if we're gonna see each other there before hands-on uh horology. We're gonna be present there, so that's a fun one.

SPEAKER_01 1:14:46

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:14:46

We also have Milano Watch Week in uh September, maybe uh and no beginning of October. I'm sorry. But that's just two weeks before New York uh wind up watch fair. So most probably we'll see each other in New York. We stay in touch, and of course, I'll share you some insights already of uh what we've been. Yeah, no, I let people wait a little bit there as well.

Blake Rea 1:15:09

I I hope I hope I'll be in New York this year because the way that my life I just go where the wind takes me, brother. Wherever the wind takes me is where I go. So I could be in New York, I could not be, and I I almost didn't even go to to Geneva this year, which would have been such a shame.

SPEAKER_02 1:15:29

I heard that during the time of the 16th, 17, and 18th, there's a very eastern direct uh direction win. So you go all the way from west coast to east coast by accident, you know. I'm I don't I'm sure that's the case. I'm sure so. Uh but it's gonna be it's gonna be good fun. Thank you for that, honestly.

Blake Rea 1:15:50

Yeah, yeah. So again, thank you for spending time with us. If you've made it this far in the episode, of course, you know that we are gonna link Arsen Leppins here in the show notes. You can click on their website, you know, follow them on Instagram, show all the love that you can to these guys because you know this is a brand that I personally am gonna keep my eyes on, pay attention to, and you know, obviously just kind of stick to the family vibes that you guys are bringing.

SPEAKER_01 1:16:27

So thank you. Thank you. All right.

Blake Rea 1:16:30

We will do, we will for sure do. We will see everybody on the next episode and ciao. Have a good one, thank you.